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Thursday, July 5, 2007 | Reason : Religion as Child Abuse | print version Print | Comments

Document Unorthodox Atheist

by Reed Braden

Reposted from the blogsite: I am an unorthodox atheist
http://unorthodoxatheism.blogspot.com/2007/04/censored.html

Censored

I recently had a conversation with a friend who identifies himself as an Atheist. He took a few stabs and guesses at the origin of the universe and the origin of life that were not too far off from pre-existing theories. I lent him The God Delusion with a sticky note on the chapter describing the anthropic principle in planets and possible universes. I wanted to see what he thought about the theories Dawkins describes and have a discussion about them.

His father found the book, took it from his son (censoring him from any literature clashing with his own personal beliefs), and called my cell phone number (written inside the cover) to tell me he was going to come over to my house to personally return it that night. It was already 11:00 PM. He read me my address (I assume he got it from the phonebook) and told me, "You made this too easy." I obsessively checked every lock in my house and went to sleep with a metal baseball bat held across my chest.

He sounded a bit drunk on the phone and I assumed he wouldn't drive across town to deliver my book in his state, so I called the school and left a message, asking to deny him a visitor's pass to the student areas of the building. He indeed came to school, and I assume he tried to visit me but was intercepted by the principal first. Whatever occurred, he ended up talking to my principal and demanded that I be punished for "handing out literature" and attempting to convert his already-Atheist son to Atheism.

Sidenote: The Gideons stopped cars in our parking lot a week ago to deliver Bibles to every person leaving the school... without school intervention.

My friend asked me to loan him the book and I did. The fact that I loaned him a book on school grounds does not mean this is a school issue. The issue is between me and my friend, and now the principal is at home "sleeping on the decision" to punish me or not.

Is there anyone reading this who does not find this story outrageously ridiculous? Even my conservative, right-wing, religious father said that this man sounds like a conservative, right-wing, religious whack-o.

I still don't have my book back.

Reposted from:
http://unorthodoxatheism.blogspot.com/2007/04/idiocy-revealed.html
>

Idiocy Revealed!

In my dealings with my principal today, she gave no absolute affirmative or negative on punishing me for loaning another student my Dawkins book. She merely said she was "reviewing an ongoing investigation." She couldn't answer me why this was any business of the school at all. She did however give me a thousand half-assed reasons to punish me; the most interesting being violation of the establishment clause.

She told me that in loaning a religious book to another student, I was promulgating my religious beliefs and forcing the school into an establishment clause violation.

WHAT?!

This kid is an Atheist and I am an Atheist and this book is about Atheism. There doesn't seem to be much "promulgation" there. The God Delusion is also not a religious book. I explained to her that Atheism is not a religion, and so the topic of the book is more akin to philosophy and science. One other thing I don't understand is how what goes on between students violates a clause that states the government cannot sponsor a religion. If the school was handing out The God Delusion, it could be seen as an establishment clause violation, but not if it was solely between students.

She also said that since the book was not in line with the school's curriculum, it was inappropriate for school. I then asked her what she meant by this: if I were to be reading it by myself on campus, would I be breaking a rule? According to her, yes. My English class is not allowed to read Grapes of Wrath because it was deemed unsuitable for non-AP classes by the school board. I happen to be a Steinbeck fan. I asked her if it would be inappropriate to read Grapes of Wrath in school. Her answer was, in my case, yes.

In this sense, it is also against school rules to loan students extracurricular books of any kind. When I loaned Dante's Inferno to my friends Janel and Melissa, I was not spreading around a piece of literary excellency, I was breaking a rule. When I loaned Obama's Audacity of Hope to my friend Betsy, I was not doing a favour, I was breaking a rule. When I loaned Stephen King's Firestarter to my friend Lauren, I was not providing her with an entertaining short novel, I was breaking a rule. When I loaned Stephen King's Everything's Eventual to my English teacher, Mrs. Nichols, I was not helping her find a correlating short story to Hawthorne's "Young Goodman Brown," I was breaking a rule.

I asked her where these rules were written and she couldn't answer me. She instead set up an appointment for me to meet with one of the superintendent's office personnel. Everything about this roars wildly with censorship.

I'm just trying to graduate.

Reposted from:
http://richarddawkins.net/changes/insertnew.php


God Delusion

Well, persistence paid off.

When I was persistent with the school, I was able to have the "case" brought against me by the administration of Cave Spring High School dropped and the precedent it would have set wiped out of the books.

Over the past few weeks, I have been persistent with the father of the T_____ family who was still in possession of my book. I called his house every three days and it was absurdly obvious that he instructed his wife to help him avoid my calls. I eventually started leaving notes in his newspaper box (without stepping onto his property) asking about the book and eventually becoming more cordial and wishing for his mother-in-law's quick return to health.

He showed up at my door a few minutes ago and thrust the book into my hands, urging me to never go near his property or son again. I made no promises, but I thanked him for my book. Curiously, there was a saliva test for blood-alcohol-content and two business cards from my former school principal crammed into the front cover along with the hastily scrawled phone number of my former high school's computer technician. I don't know if he is trying to send me some sort of message or if he's just a very confused individual, but I'm fairly happy that I got my book back.

Comments 1 - 31 of 31 |

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1. Comment #54064 by The author on July 5, 2007 at 6:56 am

 avatarWhere are the atheist exorcists when you need them?

Other Comments by The author

2. Comment #54068 by Kervinator on July 5, 2007 at 7:03 am

 avatarGlad that didn't happen in my school 20-odd years ago and I got to read some classics that were banned south of the border (I live in Canada). Of Mice and Men comes to mind.

Other Comments by Kervinator

3. Comment #54069 by k1mgy on July 5, 2007 at 7:13 am

 avatarThis was a school system in the US, I presume. If so, it fits.

My brother, back in the late 1970's, was suspended from high school for... playing a harmonica while walking between classes. After my mother was through with the school principal he made a rather musical sound when he walked. My brother returned to classes that day, harmonica in hand.

The primary school experience is, of course, designed to prepare one for the real world. I'd say that, in your case and however sad the incident was, they did a good job in spite of themselves.

Welcome to adulthood. Good luck finding any to share the experience with.

Other Comments by k1mgy

4. Comment #54073 by geckoman on July 5, 2007 at 7:39 am

I'd have thought that rather than wasting time trying to decide whether to discipline you or not, the principal's time might be better spent adressing more pressing issues- such as the standard and quality of education and whether students are bringing guns to school.

Other Comments by geckoman

5. Comment #54075 by jonecc on July 5, 2007 at 7:58 am

The message I get from this is: if you're a school administrator or a parent of a child, don't mess with the atheist kids. They won't rave or bluster, they'll just quietly expose you as a clunking idiot, for all the world to see. Excellent stuff from the lad. If they have citizenship classes at his school he could hand this in as an assignment.

Other Comments by jonecc

6. Comment #54077 by konquererz on July 5, 2007 at 8:21 am

 avatarWhat an outrageous censorship attempt! I wonder if the dad ever realized his son was an atheist. Its sad when parents are so into making their kids like them, they don't realize they have already moved on. I was like that. Oh well, at least he struck a victory for knowledge seekers. I don't believe any book should be banned in school, save porno books obviously, and maybe comic books.

Other Comments by konquererz

7. Comment #54078 by bouwe on July 5, 2007 at 8:25 am

I agree with the above, this kid is great. What a shining example.

I had to go to a Christian school and I can't imagine what they would have done if they had found a student with an "atheist book". Mind you, that was over twenty years ago and out-and-out atheist books were hard to find back then.

The best I could find was a book "On Philosophy" at our (very inadequetely stocked) local library. My dad walked into my room and picked it up and said (I still remember his exact words) "Do you think a good christian boy should be reading things like this?"

And that was just a book that had "On Philosophy" on the cover!!! -- "Good christian boy" -- I was already agnostic-on-my-way-to-atheist at the time (aged about 16). What do you say to that?

Now I am in my forties and my dad -- who is a lovely man and we get along just swell, I love him lots and he loves me (at least I'm pretty sure he does) -- and nothing much has changed.

I have made my views quite clear at certain points in the past, but he just tells me about how they are praying for a sick baby in church and I don't know how to respond. I'd like to ask why his god has to wait for people to ask him before He heals sick babies and what about all the other babies that don't get prayed for, etc. etc. but it is obvious that he doesn't want to be asked that. So how am I supposed to respond? Does he want me to go along with his delusional beliefs even though deep down he knows that I don't share them? Is he in denial or does he just have a lack of respect for whatever viewpoint he suspects I might have, or both?

Obviously these are rhetorical questions to the internet ether, but I just thought I'd share them. (I shoud leave that stuff for my shrink -- if I had one).

I don't want to hurt his feelings so I just nod my head and say "Oh, good...how nice" like the "good christian boy" of his fantasies.

Other Comments by bouwe

8. Comment #54079 by jimbob on July 5, 2007 at 8:39 am

You might suggest to principal Martha Cobbler that since her school is "the number one HS in the Roanoke valley," she might want to familiarize everybody with the writings of Madison and Jefferson on church-state issues.

Maybe you could ask the school board to consider one of the texts on that topic for the school curriculum. If they deemed such a text "inappropriate" they'd really put the school on the map!

Good luck!

Other Comments by jimbob

9. Comment #54080 by johncrosby on July 5, 2007 at 8:41 am

Off topic but brought a smile to my face. I noticed in a very long list of "facts" about Chuck Norris (American humour apparently) was the boast to end all boasts :

"...There is no theory of evolution, just a list of creatures Chuck Norris allows to live."

No more improbable that any of the religious explanations I've ever heard.

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10. Comment #54084 by gibodean on July 5, 2007 at 9:01 am

johncrosby, haven't you heard ? Chuck Norris humour is old hat.
It's all about John Smeaton now.

Other Comments by gibodean

11. Comment #54088 by reedbraden on July 5, 2007 at 9:44 am

 avatarMy last name is Braden, not Brandon, but everyone makes that mistake.

Thank you for reposting this here. Without this kind of support from the online Atheist community, I would have given up the fight long ago.

Other Comments by reedbraden

12. Comment #54089 by bluebird on July 5, 2007 at 9:47 am

 avatargeckoman, yes; at our son's school the assistant principal takes care of that kind of stuff, the principal has bigger fish to fry.

jonecc, yes; c'est vrai!!

Other Comments by bluebird

13. Comment #54092 by Promii on July 5, 2007 at 10:00 am

I recall Chuck Norris himself responding to that 'fact' by saying that it is a cute joke, but it's really the animals God allows to live and that evolution is a lie.

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14. Comment #54093 by jonecc on July 5, 2007 at 10:13 am

reedbraden:

Welcome home. Even if you're surrounded with godbotherers in the physical world, there's always solace in cyberspace.

Being lucky enough to move in a largely secular environment, I'd figured this site was just here for discussion. I'm coming to realise that one of our most important functions is to be a refuge of sanity for people who get grief for their secular views in their everyday lives.

Other Comments by jonecc

15. Comment #54095 by happyatheist on July 5, 2007 at 10:19 am

That was a nice read...Reed. :)

When I was growing up, my dad encouraged us to read everything we could get our hands on. I can honestly say I was always skeptical of "God" and religions...but my mom and dad had almost every religious text or tome you could think of in our home...for educational purposes...My family was not religious even though they believed in a "higher power." Sundays still mean football to me rather than church. My dad said "read everything and decide for yourself what you believe." I've been a proud atheist ever since. LOL! High school was tough only cuz I had to explain why I wouldn't recite the pledge of allegiance (USA) at school events (only noticeable cuz I wouldn't stand and place my hand over my heart). The ddmin didn't like my reason...but they couldn't do much about it...cuz the Jehovah's Witness parents wouldn't let their kids say the pledge either. LOL! Wouldn't want to discriminate would we? LOL!

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16. Comment #54097 by JoyOfLife on July 5, 2007 at 11:04 am

I haven't posted before, but this article really makes me want to enter the conversation. Reed sounds like a smart and well read person and I applaud him for his courage. Keep it up!

Other Comments by JoyOfLife

17. Comment #54103 by Alkal on July 5, 2007 at 11:32 am

That is one weird sory, just saw Reed's blog, Its very well written

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18. Comment #54106 by wolf1168 on July 5, 2007 at 11:34 am

Another example that there is hope (too bad we have to look so hard to find such *sigh*) that someday being well read and intelligent will be more important than going to the right worship facility.

Way to go Braden

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19. Comment #54115 by freestateofmind on July 5, 2007 at 12:16 pm

 avatarHey Reed,
I am glad you finally got your book back. I heard you on the Dogma Free America podcast a few weeks back and was outraged at the idiocy and childishness exhibited by your friend's father and the school system.
I get that same kinda attitude here in the Buybull Belt. It seems their mentality is: "Well, Christianity is special and different from other religions...therefore its ok if we promote it and squash anything and anyone who may dissent from this good religion." I keep thinking that for somewhat educated adults they sure don't know much about their religion or the sickening contents its "holy" book contains.
Keep blogging. I enjoy reading your posts.
Let me plug that podcast again: www.dogmafreeamerica.com

Other Comments by freestateofmind

20. Comment #54116 by Logicel on July 5, 2007 at 12:20 pm

 avatarI recently had a conversation with a friend who identifies himself as an Atheist. He took a few stabs and guesses at the origin of the universe and the origin of life that were not too far off from pre-existing theories.
________

Reed is indeed a role model for other young atheists.

Reed's friend sounds like a smart young person who needs to continue to trust in his/her stabs and guesses, despite having a father who is censorious. Reed's friend can use the Net to dig out supporting evidence for his/her hunches.

Other Comments by Logicel

21. Comment #54124 by mdowe on July 5, 2007 at 1:22 pm

 avatarEven when our youth aren't directly brought up in ignorance, they never have to drift far from home to encounter it.

Mr. Braden:

Don't hold your breath waiting for the people around you to see reason on any matter that touches on religion.

Other Comments by mdowe

22. Comment #54132 by D'Arcy on July 5, 2007 at 1:58 pm

 avatarI have a lot of empathy with our young friend. A close relative of mine aged about 17, who was brought up as a Catholic finally fell out with the priest, when he was told that he was not allowed to read Alexandre Dumas' works, (e.g. The Three Musketeers). If our young friend wants to visit say the wikipedia page for Index Liborum Prohibitorum, he will see a list of "forbidden" authors including Copernicus, Defoe, Diderot, Hugo, Marx, Milton, Joyce, Voltaire, Stuart Mill, and a whole load of others. Dawkins is in good company, although not on the Index. The Catholic Church is just as "progressive" as any of the others, in that it hates its authority to be questioned.

I don't know what kind of school the author of our article goes to, but I gather it is in the USA, where (in theory) religion is not allowed to be taught in state schools. Assuming our blogger is at a state school in the "land of the free", I can only assume that the pricipal is probably more scared of being shot by his friend's father, than in upholding the "right" to free speech.

The small minded attitude of those that hold religious beliefs, prohibits them from a broader view of life and nature in general including the universe. Those who can at least shake off the veils of religion, have a better chance of having a clearer grasp of reality and solving our society's urgent problems. Religious mysticism explains nothing.

Other Comments by D'Arcy

23. Comment #54141 by Shuggy on July 5, 2007 at 3:19 pm

 avatar
She also said that since the book was not in line with the school's curriculum, it was inappropriate for school. I then asked her what she meant by this: if I were to be reading it by myself on campus, would I be breaking a rule? According to her, yes. My English class is not allowed to read Grapes of Wrath because it was deemed unsuitable for non-AP classes by the school board. I happen to be a Steinbeck fan. I asked her if it would be inappropriate to read Grapes of Wrath in school. Her answer was, in my case, yes.
How can a place call itself a school that doesn't encourage reading as widely as possible?


("non-AP"?)

Other Comments by Shuggy

24. Comment #54142 by Shuggy on July 5, 2007 at 3:28 pm

 avatarDarcy wronte:
If our young friend wants to visit say the wikipedia page for Index Liborum Prohibitorum,
That's librorum, also known as the Index Expurgatorius.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Index_librorum_prohibitorum

- just one more outrage the Catholic Church will try to sweep under the carpet.

Other Comments by Shuggy

25. Comment #54149 by PaulEmecz on July 5, 2007 at 4:14 pm

 avatarI am a teacher in the UK. I have to say, if I taught in the same country as this had happened, it would make me want to quit my job. What possible benefit can that institution be to the young people in their care? This isn't learning. What are they trying to protect students from??

I teach Religious Studies. It's not always popular on this website, and sadly some atheists respond to me in much the same way as the father in the account above (even with the slurred speech).

I strongly believe that we all need to question our assumptions, and that questioning improves our understanding of the world. I hate that ignorant, unquestioning attitude, the sort of approach that decides not to read a book because they disagree with the author. These are exactly the sort of books we need to read!

I am thoroughly impressed with the young man who wrote the above account. It is vital to strive after the truth, and not to be swayed by people who think that 'their answers' (often unquestioning adherence to someone else's views) are the whole truth.

Other Comments by PaulEmecz

26. Comment #54152 by Zaphod on July 5, 2007 at 4:48 pm

 avatarHello Reed Braden,

I am sorry you had to go through this ordeal. It really does sound like a lost script from The Outer Limits. The fact that you could be breaking a rule lending any book to a student is madness to me. No one has the right to tell you what you can and can't read in my opinion.

The double standards and hypocrisy surely stings. I am glad that you at least exist in this environment. A champion for freedom of speech and free expression against the armies of ignorance and inane convention.

Stand up for what you do believe in. Although we atheists may not believe in a deity we do however have principles that are just as unshakable as the faith based but we are at least backed up with reason and compassion.

Other Comments by Zaphod

27. Comment #54157 by hasty toweling on July 5, 2007 at 6:07 pm

Hello Reed,

You are another example of the near uniform intelligence exhibited by folks who identify themselves as 'Non-believer'. Your story also displays the predictable and dependable mindlessness of those on the other side. Keep up the good work.

Other Comments by hasty toweling

28. Comment #54179 by BT Murtagh on July 5, 2007 at 9:31 pm

 avatarA loud second to jimbob's comment #8 (54079)!

I would add that an examination of Thomas Paine's 1794 classic "The Age Of Reason" might also be in order. While Paine was deistic rather than atheistic, it does a pretty good job of demolishing religion in general and Christianity in particular, and it would be just as funny to see them trying to mark a major text by a Founding Father as 'inappropriate' in HS.

http://www.ushistory.org/paine/reason/

Other Comments by BT Murtagh

29. Comment #54200 by Shuggy on July 6, 2007 at 2:29 am

 avatarDo they allow Ray Bradbury's Farenheit 451, I wonder?

Other Comments by Shuggy

30. Comment #54316 by Lauregon on July 6, 2007 at 10:51 am

Hooray and congratulations, Reed Braden! Keep up the excellent work.

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31. Comment #94237 by dweebs on December 5, 2007 at 4:20 am

I go to a christian school, I didn't dare take the god delusion in after many friends advised me on the inordinate amounts of trouble I'd get into for possessing it. It didn't stop me lending it to those who wanted it though.

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