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Saturday, September 22, 2007 | Science : Evolution and Biology | print version Print | Comments

Document Monkeys show sense of justice

by Dr David Whitehouse, BBC

Thanks to Billy Sands for the link.

Reposted from:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/low/science/nature/3116678.stm

Monkeys have a sense of justice. They will protest if they see another monkey get paid more for the same task.

monkey 1Researchers taught brown capuchin monkeys to swap tokens for food. Usually they were happy to exchange this "money" for cucumber.

But if they saw another monkey getting a grape - a more-liked food - they took offence. Some refused to work, others took the food and refused to eat it.

Scientists say this work suggests that human's sense of justice is inherited and not a social construct.

Differential reward experiment

The research was carried out at Emory University in the US, by Sarah Brosnan and Frans de Waal, and is reported in the journal Nature.

"I'm extremely interested in the evolution of cooperation," Sarah Brosnan told BBC News Online.

"One of the most interesting areas is the recent suggestion that human cooperation is made more effective by a sense of fairness."

She wanted to find out if the human sense of fairness is an evolved behaviour or a cultural construct - the result of society's rules.

So she and her colleagues devised an experiment using capuchin monkeys.

mokey 2Sarah Brosnan said: "I chose the capuchin because they are very cooperative, and because they come from a very tolerant society.

"We designed a very simple experiment to see whether or not they react to differential rewards and efforts."

Capuchins like cucumber, but they like grapes even more. So a system was devised whereby pairs of capuchins were treated differently after completing the same task.

"They had never before been in any sort of situation where they were differentially rewarded," she said.

"We put pairs of capuchins side by side and one of them would get the cucumber as a reward for a task."

The partner sometimes got the same food reward but on other occasions got a grape, sometimes without even having to work for it."

'A highly unusual behaviour'

The response was dramatic, the researchers said.

"We were looking for a very objective reaction and we got one. They typically refused the task they were set," Sarah Brosnan said.

"The other half of the time they would complete the task but wouldn't take the reward. That is a highly unusual behaviour.

"Sometimes they ignored the reward, sometimes they took it and threw it down," she added.

monkey 3The researchers were not surprised that the monkeys showed a sense of fairness, but they were taken aback that they would turn down an otherwise acceptable reward.

"They never showed a reaction against their partner, they never blamed them," Sarah Brosnan said.

Commenting on the results, experts in the subject told BBC News Online that the idea of a long evolutionary history for a sense of fairness was an exciting one.

However, they added that they would like to see more research involving more than just the five subjects tested in the Nature study.

So does our instinctive feeling of fairness predate our species?

"It may well," Sarah Brosnan said, and further experiments are planned to see how extensive a sense of justice in the animal world is.

"We are currently repeating the study on chimpanzees, a great ape species, to learn something more about the evolutionary development of the sense of fairness.

"I suspect that there are other non-primate species with tolerant societies that will show the same behaviour."

Comments 1 - 23 of 23 |

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1. Comment #72742 by BAEOZ on September 22, 2007 at 3:04 pm

 avatarPoor Plato. He thought Justice was everybody doing their own thing to the best of their ability and not doing other peoples stuff. It turns out he was wrong and it was really all about grapes in favor of cucumber.
Let this be a lesson to you kiddies, rationality is good, but without empirical data it's just thought games.....

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2. Comment #72744 by RickM on September 22, 2007 at 3:17 pm

 avatarGee, I wonder what scripture these little guys are reading so they can know what's fair. I wonder if they have a priest class to help out.

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3. Comment #72746 by Richard Morgan on September 22, 2007 at 3:29 pm

 avatarI think that it is important to take into account the social context of such behaviours. If that experiment had been carried out in France, I'm sure the slighted monkey would immediately have gone on strike and staged a demo.
Or if it had been a born-again Christian fundie-monkey, it would have tried to exorcize the experimenters.
An Anglican monkey would have forced itself to eat the cucumber, and look as if it were enjoying it just as long as the experimenters were looking on.
A Freudian monkey would have contented itself with pieces of a phallic cucumber,while worrying about the other monkey's unresolved Oedipus complex.
Whereas a rationalist monkey would have given everything a neo-Darwinian explanation and written a book entitled "God is not Grape".

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4. Comment #72748 by BMMcArdle on September 22, 2007 at 4:27 pm

Maybe they don't "like" cucumbers at all, but eat them if nothing else is offered.

Once they saw that they had a chance of getting a grape, they quit taking the cukes.

If I had a chance to get a grape, I wouldn't eat a piece of cucumber either.

I don't see how they could tell that the monkeys thought it wasn't fair.

It seems that the only thing this study proves is they like grapes more than cucumbers.

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5. Comment #72749 by Paul Creber on September 22, 2007 at 4:34 pm

Richard Morgan: Whereas a rationalist monkey would have given everything a neo-Darwinian explanation and written a book entitled "God is not Grape".


Wish I'd thought of that, Richard. Nevertheless, I shall remain as cool as a grape and not display any sour cucumbers.

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6. Comment #72752 by _J_ on September 22, 2007 at 4:42 pm

 avatarDeveloping Richard Morgan's point, it's important to note what kind of monkeys these are: capuchin monkeys. Google 'capuchin'. It's absolutely obvious that these monkeys got their sense of justice from God. Just like the rest of us.

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7. Comment #72753 by Paul Creber on September 22, 2007 at 4:45 pm

Good point, Jonathan. And is it any surprise that the head of the Anglican church is none other than the primate?

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8. Comment #72760 by antialiasis on September 22, 2007 at 6:40 pm

Somehow I doubt the monkeys that were getting the grapes cared much for fairness.

But yes, I think they should have designed this experiment so that one monkey of each pair got one grape and the other got two (or more).

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9. Comment #72794 by Northern Bright on September 23, 2007 at 1:57 am

 avatar
It seems that the only thing this study proves is they like grapes more than cucumbers.

Well, that certainly seems to be true, but I think it suggests a bit more than that. The fact that the monkeys engaged in what we would think of as sulky behaviour, in effect "going on strike", and refusing even otherwise acceptable rewards does suggest to me that, if they could speak, they'd be saying "That's not fair!" You could imagine repeating this experiment with 4-year old humans and getting much the same result - though maybe not using cucumber and grapes ...

As for Richard Morgan, you forgot to mention that the rationalist monkey who wrote "God is not Grape" would soon have more fleas than the others.

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10. Comment #72799 by Richard Morgan on September 23, 2007 at 2:11 am

 avatarNorthern Bright : You're talking about "The Cucumber Delusion", right?
Oh, and somewhere else you related an amusing anecdote , introducing it with an apology for being "off-topic". Well, you weren't "off-topic' at all, since your recipe for beef stew is an irrefutable argument against Intelligent Design!

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11. Comment #72812 by BillySands on September 23, 2007 at 3:18 am

 avatarWhat I like about this is that it is yet another example that we are nothing special.
The religious also like to pretend that there is some sort of moral law out there that cant come about through evolution.
There was a good programme on BBC2 about them last night. Apparently the huffiness works with biscuits vs grapes too.
You can put two on either side of a clear partition with a small hole in it. On one side, one monkey has a has a jar of nuts sealed with a a tough plastic cover. The other monkey has a flint. What they found was that the monkey with the flint passed it to the other one who used it to open the jar. It then shared the nuts with the other one.
In the wild they use anvil stones to crack nuts. They sometimes have to carry the nuts several kilometers, and they pick up the hammer stones from the river several kilometers in the other direction - a nice example of forward planning. There was also footage of them using rocks as weapons against a puma. Pretty cool things really.

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12. Comment #72814 by Northern Bright on September 23, 2007 at 3:20 am

 avatarRichard Morgan:
Oh, and somewhere else you related an amusing anecdote , introducing it with an apology for being "off-topic". Well, you weren't "off-topic' at all, since your recipe for beef stew is an irrefutable argument against Intelligent Design!

Yes, I saw your reply the first time you posted it. I was just ignoring it.

Other Comments by Northern Bright

13. Comment #72838 by konquererz on September 23, 2007 at 6:23 am

 avatarITS TIME FOR ANOTHER EPISODE OF - UNDERSTANDING THE FUNDY MENTALITY!!!

1. Humans have souls
2. Humans have morality
3. Monkeys have morality
4. Monkeys must have souls
5. Monkeys must need to be saved!
6. Time to build up gods army of missionaries to monkeys!

THANKS EVERYONE, DON'T FORGET TO TIP YOUR WAITRESS!!

(key exit music)

Other Comments by konquererz

14. Comment #72853 by Floris Meijer on September 23, 2007 at 8:43 am

 avatarI finally got it. The reason the Bush administration is doing nothing to preserve nature, is to eradicate all species except the Texas Longhorns (for the excellent steak and hamburgers that is) so no evidence like this can show up anymore.

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15. Comment #72855 by filow84 on September 23, 2007 at 8:59 am

If our innate sense of justice came about through evolutionary mechanisms rather than religion, then maybe it is that instinct that is responsible for the basis and enforcement of our laws. In that case, it would be more appropriate to remove any monuments to the 10 commandments at the courthouses here in the US and replace them with monuments to On The Origin of Species. The christians would love that.

Other Comments by filow84

16. Comment #72867 by oxytocin on September 23, 2007 at 9:24 am

 avatarYou've got it BAEOZ. Let's hear it for the data!

Well, more and more we're coming to understand that our most cherished ideals are less noble than we once thought. They are feelings that have evolved...and they're shared with our fellow mammals. This is data that won't be taken well by our deluded brothers and sisters.

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17. Comment #73081 by Holy Roller on September 24, 2007 at 4:06 am

 avatarI find myself worrying about the poor monkeys involved in this vile and inhumane experiment. Who will pick up the pieces of these innocent and intelligent monkeys once the scientists have moved on?

I think that at the very minimum PETA should get involved here. Maybe they could kill a few people or fire bomb something to get their point across!

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18. Comment #73558 by The Atheist Jew on September 25, 2007 at 9:30 am

 avatarWhat is the difference between a union worker and a Capuchin monkey?

Union workers wear clothes.

Other Comments by The Atheist Jew

19. Comment #78022 by HomoErectorSet on October 11, 2007 at 2:00 pm

Fairness is a very subjective word - justice the same.

Personally, I feel/think that, I have no natural sense of fairness or justice. They are meaningless concepts to me (internally). I try to get away with as much as I can, up to the limit that society (peers, family) will tolerate (i.e. consequence) or up to a limit that I can personally; psychologically; stomach (as I am naturally; and/or nurtured to be; a non-violent person; also I am subject to physical exhaustion - duh).

If I was hungry I would prefer the grape.
If I was thirsty I would prefer the cucumber.

If you tried to give me a cucumber when I wanted a grape and saw you handing out grapes - I would refuse the cucumber (and I am a person, at least I think I am?). Not because of fairness or justice, but rather because of hunger; or a preference for nutrition. A nature/nurtured response to a biological resource is doing the choosing for me; my biology (and environmentally expressed mind) is guiding me (not a subjective concept). Even a person is governed, at times, by instinctual (or instinctual-like) responses to the environment.

Knowing the cucumber is not as nutritious as the grape - skewers the relevance of (pokes many a hole in) the subjective conclusion about subjective concepts. Doesn't it?

Preference for actual nutrition (sugar vs water) is not an example of understanding fairness. I am not even convinced people in general have a very good natural sense of fairness/justice.

If it were natural then strong people would not be so easily influenced by belief, kin preference (nepotism), needs, desires, etc. Also, nonsensical mind-worms wouldn't have such a profound affect upon people - but they do. I think consequence of action within a society explains better our sense of fairness/justice. Of course the limit, of what that is, rests upon the boundary of our biology; what our genes can actually express environmentally.

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20. Comment #237783 by Sciros on August 27, 2008 at 6:55 am

 avatarI think it's pretty much bollocks to say this suggests monkeys have a sense of "fairness." All it shows is they prefer to get a grape over a cucumber. If you want to test whether it's about "fairness" rather than what food they freaking like more, try giving every monkey a grape for a token and then at some point giving one of them a cucumber and see whether the others complain.

The fact that toddlers behave this same way should have set off the BS meter on this one. Has it been determined that they have learned a sense of "justice"? Or that it's innate? (In which case the question of whether it's a "cultural construct" as mentioned in the article would have already been answered.) How many of them would complain if everyone got a piece of cake save for one child who got a bell pepper? (Answer: one of them would -- the one who got the pepper. It's about cake, not about justice.)

I love the sample size - 5 monkeys. And rather than doing the verification experiment I described they are moving on to doing the same thing they already did with chimpanzees. Dang it why do some researchers have to be so stupid...

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21. Comment #237789 by Bonzai on August 27, 2008 at 7:08 am

Monkeys do what they do. "Fairness" and "Justice" are human concepts and they are socially constructed. These descriptions are unwarranted anthropic projections.

It is not to say that there might not be some kind of evolutionary basis to human ethical systems. But it is a long way to go from primate behaviour to a systematic code of morality. It is like saying wheat exhibits primitive breadness.

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22. Comment #237794 by Ian Bamlett on August 27, 2008 at 7:19 am

 avatar
"as a reward for a task"


Hold on... we can train capuchin monkeys to perform specific tasks now?

.... Why aren't they serving me a cold one by the pool or out clearing mines?

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23. Comment #237808 by Tezcatlipoca on August 27, 2008 at 7:53 am

 avatarNice...

I have a sense of justice and I wear clothes...

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