Monday, October 15, 2007 | Reason : Political | print version

Report on Hindu god Ram withdrawn

by BBC

Thanks to Ken Bromberg for the link.

Reposted from:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/6994415.stm

bridge

The Indian government has withdrawn a controversial report submitted in court earlier this week which questioned the existence of the Hindu god Ram.

The report was withdrawn after huge protests by opposition parties.

The report was presented to the Supreme Court on Wednesday in connection with a case against a proposed shipping canal project between India and Sri Lanka.

Hindu hardliners say the project will destroy what they say is a bridge built by Ram and his army of monkeys.

Scientists and archaeologists say the Ram Setu (Lord Ram's bridge) - or Adam's Bridge as it is sometimes called - is a natural formation of sand and stones.

No evidence

In their report submitted to the court, the government and the Archaeological Survey of India questioned the belief, saying it was solely based on the Hindu mythological epic Ramayana.

They said there was no scientific evidence to prove that the events described in Ramayana ever took place or that the characters depicted in the epic were real.

Hindu activists say the bridge was built by Lord Ram's monkey army to travel to Sri Lanka and has religious significance.

In the last two days, the opposition Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) has launched a scathing attack on the government for questioning the "faith of the million".

Worried about the adverse reaction from the majority Hindu population of the country, the Congress Party-led government has now done a U-turn and withdrawn the statement submitted in court.

The government asked the court for three months to try and sort out the issue.

Additional Solicitor General Gopal Subramaniam, appearing on behalf of the government, said they would set up a mechanism to hear concerns expressed by those opposed to the canal project.

The court adjourned the matter for three months saying they would take up the case again in January.

In the meantime, the court has said that dredging work for the canal could continue, but Ram's Bridge should not be touched

Road blocks

On Wednesday, Hindu hard-line organisations blocked roads across India to protest against the Sethusamudram Shipping Canal Project.

Commuters in the capital, Delhi, were stuck in traffic jams for hours as Vishwa Hindu Parishad (World Hindu Council) and Bajrang Dal blocked roads at various places.

Road blocks were also held in Bhopal, the capital of the central state of Madhya Pradesh, on the Delhi-Agra highway and on the Jaipur-Agra highway.

Train services were disrupted in many places across northern India.

The canal project proposes to link the Palk Strait with the Gulf of Mannar between India and Sri Lanka by dredging a canal through the shallow sea.

This is expected to provide a continuous navigable sea route around the Indian peninsula.

Once complete, the canal will reduce the travel time for ships by hundreds of miles and is expected to boost the economic and industrial development of the region.

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1. Comment #78946 by drgsr on October 15, 2007 at 1:46 pm

My first post (i am a regular visitor).

Finally someone took notice of the fun this side of the world. You did not mention that they also burnt a bus killing two people. The government almost tottered on this one!!

Other Comments by drgsr

2. Comment #78950 by ordeneus on October 15, 2007 at 1:58 pm

So, is it seriously the BJP's position that an army of monkeys built this? No, I doubt it, yet another example of using religion to control the public (look, the Gvmt is offending your religion, get them out and get us fun BJP people in instead).

Not much better than the Islamic myth of Adam standing on one foot for a thousand years though I guess.

It just boggles the imagination that people can hold on to such stupid myths, then, you remember the control element, the real reason that religions persist.

Other Comments by ordeneus

3. Comment #78951 by Vendetta on October 15, 2007 at 2:01 pm

"...bridge built by Ram and his army of monkeys..." Are you kidding me? LOL!

Holy crap (pun intended) that's the funniest thing I've read in days. I think I just wet myself.

Other Comments by Vendetta

4. Comment #78957 by Alkal on October 15, 2007 at 2:16 pm

The really sad thing s that people do believe this nonsense... and they would do anything to keep it on, even if it means denying reality.
Arguments against rationality range from a "This is faith" to a "Even the Christians believe" One can never talk any sense into these mindsets.

And the tragic thing is that this behavior percolates into the granting of basic human rights to women"lower" castes and makes social events like weddings essentially tradition-controlled and anachronistically feudal events. Ills of every nature permeate the society, and reform is seen as attack.

What is sad is that this blindness afflicts nearly one billion people and the developed world does not look at as the horror that it is suborning the basic human rights of so many of humanity.

Other Comments by Alkal

5. Comment #78961 by Vendetta on October 15, 2007 at 2:22 pm

Okay, my laughing fit has passed. Now I'm crying, because this is just so tragic... if only it were just a joke.

Alkal is right. Imagine what it would be like without all this nonsense.

Other Comments by Vendetta

6. Comment #78962 by ChrisMcL on October 15, 2007 at 2:24 pm

We all know from the movies that the Earth will one day be ruled by robots, and then apes.

Of course, humans will overcome these simian and mechanical overlords to once again be masters of this world.

What scares me, though, is the thought that some day apes and robots may team up. What hope has humanity then?

(Sorry, but silly superstitions about armies of bridge-building monkeys, makes me goofy.)

Other Comments by ChrisMcL

7. Comment #78964 by bamafreethinker on October 15, 2007 at 2:28 pm

I'm sure millions of Christians are laughing at how silly those poor ignorant bastards are, but if someone was going to bull-doze a site in the holy land that Jesus supposedly walked on or touched or swam in – they would shit a brick!

Other Comments by bamafreethinker

8. Comment #78967 by bamafreethinker on October 15, 2007 at 2:33 pm

Oh yeah… I have in-laws (whom I respect and love very much, BTW) in India right now preaching Jesus. I would bet my last dollar that they are using the example of this controversy to show the people there how silly the Hindu belief is – any takers?

Other Comments by bamafreethinker

9. Comment #78968 by n0rr1s on October 15, 2007 at 2:45 pm

An army of monkeys would be awesome! I would take over the world! Cue maniacal cackling...

But seriously, just when you think you can't be surprised anymore at the stupid shit people believe, something like this comes along. And we're not just talking about a few nutters: it sounds like millions think this really happened. Wow.

5. Comment #78961 by Vendetta

Imagine what it would be like without all this nonsense.

Imagine there's no heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
etc etc

Other Comments by n0rr1s

10. Comment #78969 by PaulJ on October 15, 2007 at 2:53 pm

People will believe anything. Did you see that guru chappie in The Enemies of Reason talking about the 'rockness' of a rock?

There's no arguing with some people. They have a mindset that appears impenetrable by ... anything.

Other Comments by PaulJ

11. Comment #78970 by Quine on October 15, 2007 at 3:00 pm

Oh, if only I had the extra schedule to write a little .gif of time lapse bridge building by monkeys ...

EDIT: I wish to state that I am in agreement with Russell Blackford above, as to protecting cultural artifacts when reasonable. It's just the monkeys part ...

Other Comments by Quine

12. Comment #78972 by jeepyjay on October 15, 2007 at 3:06 pm

Whether this is a natural formation or partially man-made, it is certainly remarkable geology so surely it should be important for it to be treated with some respect and not unduly damaged by engineering works.

The fact that there is a traditional story associated with it is hardly surprising. One has only to think of the Giant's causeway between Ireland and Scotland, supposedly built by Finn McCool. Any proposal to engineer that would arouse heated protest.

Stories and Legends associated with natural formations abound, throughout Britain let alone all over the world. These stories are part of world literature and enrich our life.

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13. Comment #78978 by notsobad on October 15, 2007 at 4:00 pm

"Hindu hardliners say the project will destroy what they say is a bridge built by Ram and his army of monkeys."

That's literally laughed out of court.

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14. Comment #78979 by heathen2 on October 15, 2007 at 4:09 pm

Regarding Comment #78972 by jeepyjay on October 15, 2007

I understand what you are saying about the nice stories and all, and certainly unique formations such as this should be considered. However to give ground to people solely on the basis of a myth is truly backward and ridiculous.

Other Comments by heathen2

15. Comment #78981 by Crazymalc on October 15, 2007 at 4:16 pm

On a related note, a new report suggests that an infinite number of monekys hacking away at a keyboard will NOT produce works of the quality of Shakespeare.

A spokesman said: "Plainly, the internet has shown our findings to be true".

Other Comments by Crazymalc

16. Comment #78983 by heathen2 on October 15, 2007 at 4:17 pm

launched a scathing attack on the government for questioning the "faith of the million

And this is the part that is most disturbing. Overall, in the hindu faith, questioning is not a problem. And unlike the muslim faith, no one cares if you are a hindu apostate (I've never even heard of that) I think. So when these kind of statements are made by hindus, it really is a problem.

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17. Comment #78987 by mjwemdee on October 15, 2007 at 4:41 pm

@ Crazymalc [Comment#78981]

Nice one, Crazymalc!

Other Comments by mjwemdee

18. Comment #78988 by Russell Blackford on October 15, 2007 at 4:43 pm

Of course it wasn't built by the god Ram; there is no such being. But why would anyone imagine that that is the important point to focus on? Clearly this landform has cultural and aesthetic significance, and that has to be weighed against the economic benefits. Bear in mind that once the thing is destroyed we are denying it to countless generations to come, so the balance of utilities is not obviously with the current need for a canal.

Personally, I would be loath to destroy a striking landform that is referred to in the Ramayana. The economic benefits, combined with the difficulties of building the canal any other way, would need to be compelling. Perhaps they are, but I'm in no position to know that.

In short, I may be an atheist, but I'm not a philistine. Looking at the comments above, I see that I have some company (hi, jeepyjay!), but not as much as I'd hope.

Other Comments by Russell Blackford

19. Comment #78990 by BAEOZ on October 15, 2007 at 5:06 pm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rama%27s_Bridge
Looks cool in the photos on wikipedia. I'm not sure dredging a small channel in one of the parts that is already 30ft deep would destroy whole structure, but I'm not an expert. Only studied geology for a few years.........

Other Comments by BAEOZ

20. Comment #78995 by The Schuermannator on October 15, 2007 at 6:16 pm

I just get a kick out of how some opponents claim it's simply impossible for it to be natural geological phenomenon...

...but having been built by a mythical god and an army of monkeys is a much more plausible explanation.

WOW.

Other Comments by The Schuermannator

21. Comment #78997 by notsobad on October 15, 2007 at 6:26 pm

Russell Blackford

You indeed have a very valid point but that's exactly what others here are saying too.
These theists don't want to protect it because of reasons you mentioned but because of irrational beliefs.

Other Comments by notsobad

22. Comment #79007 by black wolf on October 15, 2007 at 8:12 pm

"Pictures taken by NASA [National Aeronautics & Space Administration], USA from space show the remains of what appears to be an ages old man-made bridge between Rameshwaram and Sri Lanka. According to Hindu scriptures and belief, Lord Ram and his vaanar sena had built a bridge from Rameshwaram to Sri Lanka about 17 lacs 25 thousands years ago. The discovery of Shri Ram Setu by NASA confirms that Hindu scriptures and belief are correct in this matter and that Ramayana is 'history' and not "mythology" as is often construed."
http://www.hindujagruti.org/activities/campaigns/religious/ramsetu/

See? ABSOLUTE PROOF! If NASA can see it, Ram made it.

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23. Comment #79015 by thirdchimpanzee on October 15, 2007 at 10:22 pm

Pardon me - but how does a god Ram and a monkey army create a "man-made" bridge?

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24. Comment #79016 by thirdchimpanzee on October 15, 2007 at 10:24 pm

Follow up thought - are the monkeys aware of their illustrious ancestors?

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25. Comment #79019 by deepanjan_nag on October 15, 2007 at 10:36 pm

India's worst 'contribution' to the world is religion. Hinduism, Sikhism, Jainism and Buddhism are all its insidious inventions. I am from India and I find it strange how deeply religious and superstitious are the people of this country.

How long will it be before society can be purged of the evil of religion?

Other Comments by deepanjan_nag

26. Comment #79020 by beebhack on October 15, 2007 at 10:47 pm

Well, if the Bible had the occasional army of monkeys I'd take it much more seriously.... Rowan Williams please take note.

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27. Comment #79021 by BAEOZ on October 15, 2007 at 10:50 pm

C. Montgomery burns:

It was the best of times. It was the blurst of times... You stupid monkey!

Other Comments by BAEOZ

28. Comment #79022 by miaka on October 15, 2007 at 10:55 pm

You know, if someone decided to bulldoze the Mann Chinese Theater in Hollywood, everyone would throw a fit. But almost everyone here seems to be fine with bulldozing an ancient landmark that has great cultural and religious significance to a large group of people. Who cares if they give superstitious explanations for wanting to keep the landmark? The bottom line is that they have an ancient cultural attachment to it, and that's reason enough to withhold poking fun at their protest.

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29. Comment #79023 by thirdchimpanzee on October 15, 2007 at 11:14 pm

Miaka - I don't think anybody is poking fun at the decision to build a canal or not - as the wikipedia article points out, dredging a shallow portion of the "bridge" to cut a canal was first proposed in the 18th Century - and there could be ecological as well as cultural reasons to say no.

What is hilarious is the apparantly serious effort to claim that the formation is an artifact created as described in the Ramayana. Using NASA imagery to bolster a preposterous claim regarding a geological feature opens them up to all the ridicule we can heap upon them. It's precisely this abuse of science to "support" supernatural mythology that we're fighting in the US and elsewhere. It's not unexpected but depressing to see the once secular political class in India falling victim to this religious nationalism. The Communist Party can strut its manhood by torpedoing a nuclear deal with the US - but appear to have no comment on the doings of monkey armies.

Other Comments by thirdchimpanzee

30. Comment #79026 by thirdchimpanzee on October 15, 2007 at 11:27 pm

I take back what I said about the Indian political class - check out this anti-superstition bill being presented in the Maharashtra State Legislature:

http://www.hindujagruti.org/activities/campaigns/religious/anti-faith-bill/

Here's some of the areas of concern for the religious organisation HJS:

How this bill will impact ?

1. A draconian law that allows the State to arrest without bail and initiate criminal proceedings against those who believe in the power of the divine to cure sickness or any other problems. Law suggests the sentence of 7 yrs of rigorous imprisonment and 50,000 Rupees.

2. All Hindu epics, Bible, Quran will be questioned for their correctness on basis of modern science, thus banned.

3. Alternate medical therapies like Reiki, Pranic healing, Music healing techniques and all other will be banned.

4. All miracles are remarked as "so-called" i.e. fake by this law. So all the saints can be arrested if they are not able to prove the teachings of the religion and divine forces on the basis of science.

Police will have many more uncontrolled powers. Though the name of bill suggest that it is intended to eradicate Black Magic, it is not true. Many expert counselors have clarified that under the name of black magic, this law is actually targeting the Faith and All the crimes listed under this law are already covered under Indian Penal Code (IPC), so there is no need for new law.For detail analysis read Analysis by Experts. The copy of Bill is available under section The Black Magic Bill. Also please join to protest by participating in the online signature drive.

Wonder how we could get similar legislation passed here?

Other Comments by thirdchimpanzee

31. Comment #79029 by epeeist on October 15, 2007 at 11:34 pm

Comment #78968 by n0rr1s

An army of monkeys would be awesome! I would take over the world! Cue maniacal cackling...

It didn't do the Wicked Witch of the West any good, anyway I bet you don't have a golden hat.

Other Comments by epeeist

32. Comment #79042 by Tumara Baap on October 16, 2007 at 1:13 am

The monkey army gets taken very seriously by many Hindu's. The most famous of these monkey's was a Ram acolyte, Hanuman. Hanuman himself needed no land bridges, since he could fly, often whilst with his tail on fire. As you can imagine, he made for a splendid weapon, and is credited with thus burning Lanka to the ground. To this day Hindus, if not peering the blue skies for flying monkeys with tails on fire, certainly do spend countless hours worshipping Hanuman. They also unfailingly heed respect when undertaking a significant or dangerous mission by invoking the battle cry in Hanuman's honor : "Jai bajrang bali".

So how do modern educated Hindus cope with this, you ask? It's the refrain some may have heard before: It's just a metaphor to impart valuable lessons. Other explanations and revisionisms have been a little more creative. Hanuman was known to have flown to the moon. Hindus have been agog that their kind mastered space flight long before the Americans figured out how. But space flight then as now was risky business. A fractured and deformed human face after a fall from the sky resulted in the monkey moniker for Hanuman and his underlings. And the tail? It was a whip that could be set alight. It was worn around the waist and was also called the tail!

As silly as all this sounds, I'd be remiss not to point out that Hinduism is not a single religion. It roughly refers to a body of often unrelated beliefs from different eras from all over the subcontinent (though exceptions are arbitrarily made for those with distinct group identities like Jainism and Sikhism). Some beliefs are laughable. Others like the Upanishads are surprisingly sophisticated. Matter, fire, and space are described as being in a flux but integral to God. There is no genesis. Other schools of thought are quite similar to secular humanism. Similarly, ancient Egypt had beliefs far superior to the rubbish of the Old Testament. Some explanations on the creation of the universe came close to a colloquial description of the Big Bang. The commandments in Egypt's Negative Confession were likewise leagues ahead in ethical sophistication to the Ten Commandments.

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33. Comment #79046 by uncle tungsten on October 16, 2007 at 1:29 am

It would set an interesting legal precedent though, wouldn't it? If the Indian government could demonstrate in court that one god doesn't exist, that could have enormous repercussions for the others. Shame it's not going to happen. Incidentally, does anyone know what happened with the guy in the States who was suing God? Did the defendant show up in court?

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34. Comment #79078 by jamesdoeser on October 16, 2007 at 4:21 am

I wrote a page about this for our little website which may be of interest to some of you...
http://www.badarchaeology.net/political/ram.php

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35. Comment #79096 by jaydon64 on October 16, 2007 at 5:19 am

I would like to know why an all powerful god needed an army of monkeys to build his bridge? LOL

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36. Comment #79103 by Cartomancer on October 16, 2007 at 6:00 am

I can remember making little stick puppets of Hanuman and the monkey army in primary school when we were doing some multicultural awareness thing, then doing a little production of the story. I thought it was a pretty cool idea at the time.

It never occurred to me at this point that some Indian folks actually took all this stuff seriously, I mean why would they - we in England don't think that Jesus had real magic powers and rose from the dead do we? Those Greeks can't have actually thought that all their gods and monsters were real could they? It's all just funny ancient stories with lots of exciting heroes and battles and magic - brilliant stuff! I was very fond indeed of religion at that age.

I really wish my naive seven year old self were right on this one...

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37. Comment #79105 by thirdchimpanzee on October 16, 2007 at 6:19 am

Spot on Cartomancer - we never did take this stuff seriously, and the Greeks usually had the coolest mythology. Unfortunately I wasn't introduced to Indian or Chinese mythology at that age, and by the time I was in High School my cynical adolescent self couldn't relate to the stories with any sense of wonder.

Its a shock to find out that there are large numbers of people in many countries who profess to take this stuff seriously. However, as Dan Dennet points out in his presentation to the AAI conference, there may be many who outwardly claim to believe for social/political reasons, but really don't think through the belief in question, or leave the belief to others.

Do the religicos of the BJP really, really believe that 1.7 years ago an army of monkeys built a bridge to Sri Lanka? These same people want India to become a great power rivalling China - and for that they need Indian science and technology. One can only hope that the Indian scientific establishment can show some courage here to face down what is probably a cynical ploy to exploit religion in the face of dramatic changes to the Indian social and political landscape.

However, lives have already been lost in India over this nonsense, and I appreciate that it would probably take much greater personal courage as a scientist to take on the Hindu nationalists than our scientists have to contend with in the States.

Other Comments by thirdchimpanzee

38. Comment #79109 by Russell Blackford on October 16, 2007 at 6:37 am

Well, I rather fancy the Carvaka school of Indian philosophy myself, just as I am most sympathetic to the Epicureans among the ancient Western schools.

Other Comments by Russell Blackford

39. Comment #79110 by Alkal on October 16, 2007 at 6:54 am

In the case of India more often than not, culture is used interchaneably with belief.. and it leads to religious control and bigotry of lunacy that exceeds proportions... Marriages are arranged on the basis of caste, region, more division_ "because that is our culture" is the refrain. Old landmarks, superstitions are adhered to, religious holidays are state-granted... "because that is our culture" they say... and protesting voices are silenced by the "This is anti-hindu" and "This is anti-india" sentiments... it is a confusing hodgepodge, yet the government will do nothing, because of the vote banks...
Hate speech has become rife, with Hindu hardliners - and the excuse "every one else also does it"
The amount of money thrown away on stupid ritual, blind tradition and religious fervor is humongous, and the supposed "values" that religion is supposed to promote have long vanished. Pseudo science, false claims( the NASA photos are an internet fraud) also the chain emails have reached manic proportions( refer to how artist MF Husein has to spend his time in Dubai for daring to paint a Hindu Goddess in the nude....--> I do not have the link here)And no one dare say anything. worse is that this is seen as silly and laughable, not the tragedy that it really is, a tragedy that keeps one sixth of humanity from acquiring a "serious" status in the world and no longer being counted on as exotic freaks, part of a circus show.
I feel strongly about it, more so because I hate to be classed with this sort of people, I am an Indian and invariably I get lumped with lunatics of this sort....( got a little carried away)

Other Comments by Alkal

40. Comment #79113 by Cartomancer on October 16, 2007 at 7:16 am

The problem with the Indian situation and the image we have of it in the west is that it's so self-contained. There's the violence in Kashmir of course, but that can quite easily be chalked up to Muslim vs. Hindu clash of civilisations. And most people in the west tend to regard Hindus as peaceful, traditionally-minded eccentrics with minds buzzing full of benign spiritualist nonsense, so it's probably all the fault of those nasty militaristic Muslims anyway. Otherwise what we see is an established culture quietly getting on with its own business, not really doing anything overtly reprehensible such as genocide or savage repression of women. We fret a bit about the caste system maybe, but we've got a class system too and surely it must be an awful lot better than once it was? Right? Indian emmigrants we meet in our own countries are generally hard-working, law-abiding folk who don't stoop to lecturing us on why they think we're wrong and who are more than happy to coexist with us in peace. Given all this, we think, what right do we have to stomp in with our imperialistic boots on and tell them they can't make offerings to a flaming space monkey and a guy with eight arms? It just seems far too paternalistic and interventionist to tell another culture that it is backward and needs to change -to get in line with the modern world which we defined. Change, we think, must come from within (now there's an ironic Buddhist reference for you) at a pace determined by the Indians themselves.

India doesn't have much by way of oil reserves for us to steal either ...

Other Comments by Cartomancer

41. Comment #79142 by A on October 16, 2007 at 9:32 am

This intellectually cancerous horseshit is just Christianity from another angle, zero difference.

Other Comments by A

42. Comment #79144 by kpsri on October 16, 2007 at 9:48 am

This controversy drowned out every other voice on the project like environmental impact of sethusamudram project. Atheists had their share of the fun with questions like 'Did Ram attend engineering college ?'(to supervise construction of the bridge)

On the whole, it was a lot of fun for the politicans(atheist and theist) while reasoned discussion was completely ruled out. Other than 2 lives lost and economic losses, nothing new about this controversy.

Other Comments by kpsri

43. Comment #79258 by 82abhilash on October 16, 2007 at 3:30 pm

There is a 'land bridge' between India and Sri Lanka. It is old and according to legend created by monkeys. Whoever created it, it is an object of wonder.

Why not study it properly? Why not bring some transparency to the whole issue? Why the hurry to destroy it? What environmental impact can that create? Why is anyone not open about it? Even if it is not a monument, it still has historic significance in a religious sense.

If it is artificial, it has tremendous historic significance comparable to the Great Wall of China. If it is natural, it has environmental significance like the Great Barrier Reef in Australia. In any case why does the Indian Government not see at as the National treasure that it is?

More interestingly in a country with a Hindu majority, why is a democratically elected Government jeopardizing its relationship with its majority voters by hurting their sentiments? Is it not political suicide? A sort of foolishness?

Furthermore it was never a base for religious extremism like the Madrassas in Pakistan, nor was it a magnet for violence or social unrest until the government threatened to destroy it?

Something stinks and this time, I think it is the current secular government of India that smells fishy.

Other Comments by 82abhilash

44. Comment #79324 by witriolic on October 17, 2007 at 12:02 am

Interesting..I remember hearing/reading that Vanaras were a tribe living in the forests who helped Rama in his quest. To accentuate the difference between the King Rama and the tribe, they may have had an appendage added to their err...behinds.the words Vana + Nara and Vaanara sound pretty close. The wikipedia entry seems to justify the same:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vanara
" The name Vanara could also be an abbreviation of the from Vana-nara (the humans (nara) settled in forests (vana))"
The bridge has been described as an outdated idea for economic reasons. The other part is, if all the 'minorities' get their wishes 'pandered to' in our secular democracy, why not the majority?
Needless to say, a dangerous line of thinking...

Other Comments by witriolic

45. Comment #79414 by n0rr1s on October 17, 2007 at 8:09 am

31. Comment #79029 by epeeist

An army of monkeys would be awesome! I would take over the world! Cue maniacal cackling...

It didn't do the Wicked Witch of the West any good, anyway I bet you don't have a golden hat.

It didn't, and I don't. Damn. Back to the drawing board I guess...

Other Comments by n0rr1s

46. Comment #79458 by Vaal on October 17, 2007 at 9:53 am

What? All that money wasted on the Channel Tunnel when we could have had it built by Ram's monkeys for nothing!

Other Comments by Vaal

47. Comment #79463 by Quine on October 17, 2007 at 10:23 am

Comment #79109 by Russell

Well, I rather fancy the Carvaka school of Indian philosophy myself, just as I am most sympathetic to the Epicureans among the ancient Western schools.

I just read about the Carvaka history in Jennifer Michael Hecht's book Doubt (highly recommended) and was very impressed. (no monkeys, though)

Other Comments by Quine

48. Comment #79469 by Vendetta on October 17, 2007 at 11:17 am

Do you suppose they realize how silly an "army of monkees" is? Is it another victory for cognitive dissonance?

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49. Comment #79479 by Quine on October 17, 2007 at 11:43 am

Does anyone else notice a general pattern in history where rational thinking overthrows silly magical thinking, only to slowly acquire little magical additions over time until it doesn't look anything like the original (Buddhism comes to mind, but there are many others) and has to be, once again, overthrown by rational thinking, ...?

Other Comments by Quine

50. Comment #79702 by skeptictank on October 18, 2007 at 8:50 am

oh, it gets better, later in the story the leader of the monkeys, Hanuman, caries the entire Dronagiri mountain (instead of finding a single herb) to heal Ram's brother (magically) after being injured in battle by the 10 headed tyrant Ravana. Interestingly enough Ravana also had the ability to regenerate heads upon them being severed (no magic herbs needed).

However, plenty of magic herbs are necessary to believe any of this.

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