










Suffering, Evil and the Existence of God2. Comment #85694 by Johan on November 6, 2007 at 9:38 pm
In religious reasoning (sorry for the oxymoron), why is it that the question "why is there something rather than nothing" never seems to apply to god as well?3. Comment #85695 by Russell Blackford on November 6, 2007 at 9:43 pm
RD does explicitly disclaim any reliance on the Problem of Evil in The God Delusion. I remember the point well, since it was one point on which I disagreed with him - I think it is still a very powerful argument and has never been answered satisfactorily. It doesn't prove that there is no god at all (perhaps evil or indifferent to suffering), but it does expose how unlikely it is that a benevolent god exists, and the debate about it shows the intellectual contrivances needed to sustain faith in the God of the orthodox Abrahamic theologians.4. Comment #85696 by BAEOZ on November 6, 2007 at 9:50 pm
Whence, then, evil?
5. Comment #85698 by Nuclearman on November 6, 2007 at 10:12 pm
Is this not the same philosopher Flew who, in a previous article here, was shown to have had his declining state of mind preyed upon by the religionist wolves in sheep's clothing?6. Comment #85699 by Eric Blair on November 6, 2007 at 10:12 pm
More than just an argument, for some atheists (Albert Camus comes to mind) the problem of evil and God's apparent indifference to suffering completely eclipses the logical improbability of God as the key reason why they reject religion.7. Comment #85701 by Quine on November 6, 2007 at 10:27 pm
8. Comment #85702 by stevencarrwork on November 6, 2007 at 10:28 pm
Flew has not written a new book.9. Comment #85705 by stevencarrwork on November 6, 2007 at 10:37 pm
'How did purposive behavior of the kind we engage in all the time – understanding, meditating, enjoying – ever emerge from electrons and chemical elements?'10. Comment #85711 by windweaver on November 6, 2007 at 11:18 pm
11. Comment #85757 by stephenray on November 7, 2007 at 2:45 am
One can only suppose that Flew's mental faculties evaporated with age, otherwise he would see that the postulation of 'an infinitely intelligent mind' provides literally no answer to the question of the complexity or existence of the universe.12. Comment #85764 by Infozombie on November 7, 2007 at 3:11 am
13. Comment #85796 by Linda on November 7, 2007 at 6:09 am
Fish writes:-14. Comment #85798 by Mat on November 7, 2007 at 6:12 am
Cartomancer - "omelletosity" - a fine addition to the English language, made me laugh!15. Comment #85803 by Bonzai on November 7, 2007 at 6:34 am
Linda,
"Flew assures his readers that he "has had no connection with any of the revealed religions," and no "personal experience of God or any experience that may be called supernatural or religious."
16. Comment #85825 by irate_atheist on November 7, 2007 at 9:27 am
17. Comment #85837 by cowalker on November 7, 2007 at 9:53 am
No religious belief in a "good" creator except one that postulates reincarnation explains the problem of suffering.18. Comment #85846 by Arcturus on November 7, 2007 at 10:13 am
19. Comment #85854 by Linda on November 7, 2007 at 10:35 am
Bonzai – It is really difficult to purge early childhood conditioning from our memory data banks. Flew would have been subjected to constant indoctrination of biblical myths and superstition by his parents. No doubt bedtime stories consisted of Bronze Age science fiction tales from the bible. Did he know that religion was ridiculous at age 6 but kept his head down until he was and adult?20. Comment #85869 by evaporated on November 7, 2007 at 11:15 am
why is there something rather than nothing?21. Comment #85918 by BigJohn on November 7, 2007 at 1:26 pm
22. Comment #85937 by jaytee_555 on November 7, 2007 at 2:15 pm
By Flew's(?!) reasoning, evil must have its origin in God. If this is true, then God is not to be worshipped, but rejected. Conversely, if it is not true, the problem becomes 'how could 'evil' arise? - since it is a 'purpose-driven' form of information just as much as 'good' is.23. Comment #85940 by jaytee_555 on November 7, 2007 at 2:22 pm
Just another idle thought.....24. Comment #86008 by kraut on November 7, 2007 at 8:11 pm
WTF - the amount of brainpower absolutely wasted on a hypothetical entity is just staggering. Just postulate god does not exist, nor is he necessary to explain existence, and there is no conundrum any more. The world is just like no creator existed.25. Comment #86030 by kraut on November 7, 2007 at 11:31 pm
Too much staggering - that what this intellectual diarrhea does to one...26. Comment #86070 by Theocrapcy on November 8, 2007 at 4:09 am
27. Comment #86071 by clodhopper on November 8, 2007 at 4:09 am
"The only satisfactory explanation for the origin of such 'end-directed, self-replicating' life as we see on earth is an infinitely intelligent Mind."
28. Comment #86172 by TheCelestialTeapot on November 8, 2007 at 2:04 pm
What I find to be unbelievably ironic rests on my observation that the religious or those wanting or needing or wishing in a Creator must use a whole lot of ideas developed through the imagination. A religious person imagines what god may be like. A religious person imagines heaven and hell. A religious person wonders about things like angels and demons. A religous person imagines a whole lot of things all the time in order to develop a bloody fiction. Why is it then that Stanly Fish and the rest demonstrate, on a regular basis, a complete lack of imagination when they are confronted with a materialistic explanation of the world and universe? Why is it not possible for consciousness to be the result of chemical reactions and neurons firing in the brain? Why are the mathematical postulations and probabilities concerning the universe so difficult to comprehend? Evolution, possibly one of the easiest scientific facts to understand, is butchered by the minds of those who lack the imagination to picture a simple deterministic process. It is near impossible for a religious person to view the earth millions of years ago, covered with some water and other chemicals, being bombarded by lightning and generating the first bits of life. It will be forever puzzling to me that the religious can invent a million different nonsensical and fantastic stories and explanations, yet at the same time lack the little bit of imagination required in order to visualize how science would work in different situations.29. Comment #86176 by Quine on November 8, 2007 at 2:33 pm
30. Comment #86181 by Arcturus on November 8, 2007 at 3:04 pm
31. Comment #86189 by Quine on November 8, 2007 at 3:46 pm
32. Comment #86191 by Arcturus on November 8, 2007 at 4:02 pm
33. Comment #86193 by Quine on November 8, 2007 at 4:15 pm
34. Comment #86242 by Samson Agonistes on November 8, 2007 at 7:48 pm
'Fashionable atheists?' Sounds like a term of ridicule itself; but I'm not sure why there's anything wrong with ridicule, in the public sphere. Surely sufficiently weak arguments deserve to be laughed at, their absurd consequences exposed. Fish sounds a little stung--like maybe some emails or other responses to his counter-atheist ramblings turned his face red, and he wants to hurt to assuage the hurt.35. Comment #86412 by steveroot on November 9, 2007 at 7:09 am
27. Comment #86071 by clodhopper on November 8, 2007 at 4:09 am
"I am indeed self-replicating life and to this end is my end directed."
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1. Comment #85692 by Cartomancer on November 6, 2007 at 9:27 pm
And are we really back on the tired old "you can't get consciousness from unconscious matter" line? You might as well ask how you can get omelletes from eggs when there is no trace of intrinsic omelletosity in any egg you can find...
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