1. Comment #89407 by Dr Benway on November 20, 2007 at 3:32 pm

Who would be asking these questions were it not for Hitch?

We need a few more like him.

Other Comments by Dr Benway

2. Comment #89408 by Matt7895 on November 20, 2007 at 3:37 pm

Hitchens on Fox News? Wow this'll be a treat. Thanks for putting this up. How old is it?

Was he cut off at the end? He was just entering his stride too!



Other Comments by Matt7895

3. Comment #89411 by PrimeNumbers on November 20, 2007 at 3:46 pm

Someone needs to speak out about the crackpot Mormon beliefs. I wish Hitchins had given more detail to the Christian audience about how nutty the Mormons are.

Other Comments by PrimeNumbers

4. Comment #89412 by Rtambree on November 20, 2007 at 3:48 pm

Producer: "Gee, ratings are down and it's a slow news day. What can we do to give us a boost? I know, we'll get Hitch in. He's good for an instant headline"

Other Comments by Rtambree

5. Comment #89413 by robonstormymonday on November 20, 2007 at 3:51 pm

I am so pleased that Hitchens is bringing this up. It really upsets me that a man like Romney actually has a chance at the republican nomination let alone the presidency. I hope people really begin to attack this, and question him on his Mormonism, I'd be very interested to see how he answers the questions.

Other Comments by robonstormymonday

6. Comment #89414 by BaronOchs on November 20, 2007 at 3:55 pm

That interviewers logic was a picture. Hitchens' gives a perfect breakdown of why Romney's Mormonism is problematic and he responds "b-but hang on you're against all religion! I'm not having nothing to do with this!"

Other Comments by BaronOchs

7. Comment #89419 by dialector on November 20, 2007 at 4:24 pm

If only we had as much historical evidence on the origins of Christianity as we have on mormonism.

Other Comments by dialector

8. Comment #89420 by Jack Rawlinson on November 20, 2007 at 4:24 pm

I swear Hitch is best when he's had a few. Thankfully, that's often. :-)

Other Comments by Jack Rawlinson

9. Comment #89422 by Elcristoph on November 20, 2007 at 4:45 pm

LOL, Hitch really knows how to hold is own on fox, he just doesn't let up...hopefully his points will be addressed.

Thanks

Other Comments by Elcristoph

10. Comment #89424 by Rtambree on November 20, 2007 at 4:54 pm

I was transfixed by how many graphics, images and scroll bars there were on the screen at the same time. I can't follow it all. I guess I need a Quad-Core CPU implant.

Other Comments by Rtambree

11. Comment #89426 by RickM on November 20, 2007 at 5:03 pm

Please correct me if I'm wrong. It's my understanding Mormon's believe that if they live the righteous life they will eventually become a God and rule their own planet.

If that's not crackpot, I don't know what is.

Christians believe in virgin birth, walking on water, and resurrection (equally crackpot). But do they know that Romney things he will become a God?

I have yet to hear anyone ask this question of Romney. Perhaps no journalist know about it; perhaps they don't have the guts to ask. I strongly suspect most Americans don't know Romney things he will become a God.

Other Comments by RickM

12. Comment #89428 by BaronOchs on November 20, 2007 at 5:09 pm

There needs to be a primetime documentary taking a critical look at all these mormon teachings and their implications for Romney's candidacy.

In Britain this would undoubtedly be undertaken by either Panorama or Dispatches. I don't know what the U.S. equivalent is? Of course in the UK a mormon running for office would get plenty of scrutiny anyway. See for instance the criticism of Ruth Kelly and her Opus Dei involvement.

Other Comments by BaronOchs

13. Comment #89430 by Matt7895 on November 20, 2007 at 5:18 pm

I am told Horizon can be quite good, and Tonight with good old Sir Trev is alright too.

About Ruth Kelly, unfortunately it wouldn't be a problem if she didn't let it interfere with her political life, but it does. She has voted against, or abstained from voting, on issues relating to abortion and gay civil partnerships/adoption. Though as you say a Mormon would probably be laughed out of office. I think Scientology is the next big thing that is taking a hold on the UK, so its those nutters we have to keep an eye on.

Other Comments by Matt7895

14. Comment #89431 by Goldy on November 20, 2007 at 5:29 pm

If only the general population could be made aware of what these sects and religions actually believe in, I think the voting would be swayed :-)
maybe having the Southpark explanation of Mormonism shown before any interviews, along with the same's explanation of Scientology. Be good for a laugh, anyway!

Other Comments by Goldy

15. Comment #89432 by Diacanu on November 20, 2007 at 5:30 pm

I heard some country banned Scientology as a cult.
It was Germany, wasn't it?

Funny, our government picks and chooses what cults to pull a Waco on.
Guess Scientology just made enough money.
That's all that separates it.
Twisted, twisted fucking world.

Other Comments by Diacanu

16. Comment #89434 by rthille on November 20, 2007 at 5:39 pm

Shouldn't that be Faux News (Fair and Balanced[tm])?

Other Comments by rthille

17. Comment #89435 by carnitine on November 20, 2007 at 5:40 pm

While I agree that Romney should have to answer all these questions, the belief around here that Mormonism is any more absurd than any other religion is itself absurd. Sam Harris' recent argument that it is by definition more idiotic because it is simply Christianity + more stupid stuff is equally ignorant.

Mormonism solved some logical conundrums that the Catholic church is still struggling with after 2000 years. This doesn't make it a better religion than Catholicism, but it means that Harris' version of mathematics is void, from a purely logical standpoint.

Romney mustn't be elected, and his religion is part of the reason, but Mormonism is no worse than most religions.

Other Comments by carnitine

18. Comment #89439 by prettygoodformonkeys on November 20, 2007 at 5:54 pm

Rthille: Shouldn't that be Faux News (Fair and Balanced[tm])?

Excellent; I'd like to suggest inserting "fair unbalanced".

Dialector: If only we had as much historical evidence on the origins of Christianity as we have on mormonism.

I think what we have in Mormonism is historical evidence of how religions, in general, are spawned.

Other Comments by prettygoodformonkeys

19. Comment #89440 by robotaholic on November 20, 2007 at 6:07 pm

hahahah! Hitch is awesome- and has a great point. The man's beliefs are obsurred and need to be challenged- especially if he's attempting to be the president of the United States.

Other Comments by robotaholic

20. Comment #89442 by bluebird on November 20, 2007 at 6:40 pm

Nice to see C.H.'s dogged stoicism vs Fox's blathering.

edit: CruciFiction Interesting, didn't know that.

Other Comments by bluebird

21. Comment #89444 by knutsondc on November 20, 2007 at 6:51 pm

It's too late to do a path-breaking expose documentary on Mormonism and the carnival hucksterism of Joseph Smith -- South Park already did it in one of its most hilarious and informative episodes ever.

Other Comments by knutsondc

22. Comment #89445 by Matt7895 on November 20, 2007 at 6:56 pm

Aye but they almost spoiled it at the end with that moral message of faith and belief being sacred and above criticism. Matt and Trey have done the same thing recently with 'Imaginationland', where they came up with some nonsense about God and Jesus not being real but still real because they have an effect on people's lives.

Other Comments by Matt7895

23. Comment #89451 by CruciFiction on November 20, 2007 at 7:42 pm

I don't think it's very widely known, but US Senate Majority Leader, Harry Reid, is also Mormon:


"Why I Believe: Harry Reid"

by Harry Reid
March 15, 2002

http://deseretbook.com/mormon-life/news/printable?story_id=958

Other Comments by CruciFiction

24. Comment #89462 by k1mgy on November 20, 2007 at 8:56 pm

"I was transfixed by how many graphics, images and scroll bars there were on the screen at the same time. I can't follow it all. I guess I need a Quad-Core CPU implant. "

It will be the end when flashing, scrolling text takes over the entire screen.

Had to scroll the viewport down slightly to block it off. Distracting.

Other Comments by k1mgy

25. Comment #89482 by jhylkema on November 20, 2007 at 11:18 pm

11. Comment #89426 by RickM on November 20, 2007 at 5:03 pm

Please correct me if I'm wrong. It's my understanding Mormon's believe that if they live the righteous life they will eventually become a God and rule their own planet.

You are correct. "As man is, god once was. As god is, man may become" is the Mor(m)on mantra. You reach that, of course, by dutifully paying your 10% extortion money to the church, among other things.

It's even nuttier than that, though. Once you get there, you get to practice what is known as "celestial marriage." This, of course, means that you get to marry lots and lots of women and get to spend eternity boning them to populate your planet. That's right, folks, it's all about SEX SEX SEX!

It should be noted that Joseph Smith was a liar and a fraud who made money convincing farmers that he could use dowsing rods to find treasure buried on their farms. He was actually convicted of a crime for this. Of course, the charges were false and it was all a big anti-Mor(m)on conspiracy.

I sure as hell am not voting for Romney or any other member of that crackpot cult.

Other Comments by jhylkema

26. Comment #89538 by Slyer on November 21, 2007 at 3:16 am

Mormon, Christian, Muslim, it doesn't matter, you shouldn't mix religion and politics if you can help it. As much as I'd like to say that I wouldn't be biased towards voting for a non-theist, I'm as biased as everyone else.
Oh how great it would be without religion to divide us so.

Other Comments by Slyer

27. Comment #89567 by PrimeNumbers on November 21, 2007 at 5:56 am

Hopefully the Americans will say: "We've already had one Moron for a president, why would we want another."

Other Comments by PrimeNumbers

28. Comment #89597 by jimbob on November 21, 2007 at 7:59 am

Rudy G needs the same scrutiny after what he has said about nominating supreme court justices!

Other Comments by jimbob

29. Comment #89599 by oxytocin on November 21, 2007 at 8:08 am

I'm in agreement with Goldy and knutsondc...anyone who hasn't seen the South Park take on the history of Mormonism should get right on that. I think it's one of the most successful demonstrations of the lunacy of religious belief ever broadcast.

Other Comments by oxytocin

30. Comment #89620 by will young on November 21, 2007 at 9:17 am

In addition to being racists, polytheists, and believing the Garden of Eden was in Missouri, Mormons are also firmly committed to the belief that they are building Zion in America for the christ to return to, and reign over the world from, as king.

Ultimately Mormons consider themselves governed only by the christ and by proxy, until he returns, the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. These leaders and living prophets are unquestionably believed to be divinely inspired to reveal the will of god and held to have the authority to carry out god's will over and above any and all temporal governments.

Polygamy was not stopped because it was against federal law, but because it was "revealed" to the church prophet at the time that it was no longer necessary. Dark skinned members were not given the Melchizedek Priesthood, which only males can currently hold, because of social pressure and falling membership, but because it was revealed by god that eligible dark-skinned members were no longer unworthy to hold the position.

Every time something contradicts a previously "revealed truth', either legally or because members start leaving or are harder to fool into joining, the prophet gets a revision of god's will that conveniently corrects the problem. If the church had more political power the opposite would happen.

Ask a Mormon about any of this and watch them squirm, unless, of course, they are good liars and then prepare for some hefty bullshit. Like their answer to livestock and forged steel in pre-columbian America, both of which the Book of Mormon claim.

Sorry, but never get me started on this subject…it hits way too close to home.

Other Comments by will young

31. Comment #89627 by NormanDoering on November 21, 2007 at 9:31 am

Romney mustn't be elected, and his religion is part of the reason, but Mormonism is no worse than most religions.

There are only two Republicans in the race that would not be total disasters, possibly worse than Bush, and they are McCain and Romney.

If you think Romney is bad, think about Huckabee's religious beliefs. Huckabee thinks there will be duck hunting in heaven.

If Mormonism is no worse than most religions, than you have to admit that Romney is no worse than other candidates unless you have other reasons to think him a bad candidate.

Other Comments by NormanDoering

32. Comment #89640 by walk on November 21, 2007 at 10:19 am

Will Young,

Thanks. We should also mention that, according to the Mormons, god was once a man, he had a mother and father (therefore NOT the creator of the universe), he has many wives in heaven, he had physical sex with Mary to give birth to Jesus, he is a being of "flesh and bone", and he lives on a planet next to the star "Kolob" which is an immense star that shines on the sun!!! (Gosh, how did the Hubble miss THAT one!?). Oh, yes, and the earth is 6,000 years old, Satan if the brother of Jesus, blacks are a different species, and the American Indians and the Polynesians are of Jewish descent!

On another note, if the president of the Mormons, Gordon B. Hinckley (who receives divine revelations), tells Romney that god has instructed him to nuke Europe, he HAS to do it, or go to hell!

Other Comments by walk

33. Comment #89643 by oxytocin on November 21, 2007 at 10:31 am

Will Young & Walk,
In addition to your splendid lists of atrocities inherent to the Mormon belief system, allow me to add the potential coup de grace: the Book of Abraham. Absolutely staggering.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_abraham

Other Comments by oxytocin

34. Comment #89654 by jimbob on November 21, 2007 at 11:38 am

The question is how much will the religion of any candidate figure in their presidential actions? Rudy G has said more than once that he would nominate supreme court justices from the same mold as Thomas and Scalia. That's far scarier to me than some mumblings about duck hunting in heaven!

Other Comments by jimbob

35. Comment #89673 by walk on November 21, 2007 at 12:54 pm

jimbob,

Agreed, although Romney should make it clear that he will NOT be taking orders from Pres. Hinckley of LDS, the way that JFK assured the people he would not be taking orders from the Pope.

I've heard speculation that he only plans on addressing the Mormon issue IF he gets the GOP nomination.

Other Comments by walk

36. Comment #89674 by NormanDoering on November 21, 2007 at 1:01 pm

jimbob wrote:

Rudy G has said more than once that he would nominate supreme court justices from the same mold as Thomas and Scalia. That's far scarier to me than some mumblings about duck hunting in heaven!

First, note that Rudy G is not on my short list of acceptable Repugs.

And if you think Huckabee won't nominate supreme court justices from the same mold as Thomas and Scalia then you haven't been paying attention.

Other Comments by NormanDoering

37. Comment #89676 by wednesdayguevara on November 21, 2007 at 1:12 pm

33. Comment #89643 by oxytocin on November 21, 2007 at 10:31 am

Yay! The Book of Abraham: In which Joseph Smith lifts pages from the Egyptian Book of the Dead and pretends they are the Word of the Lord. Love it!

One of my dearest friends fell in love with an LDS girl, and promptly got baptized into the church. He had been reading the Book of Mormon, but he hadn't read Abraham yet.

When he did he was-- what's the proper word? Livid? Enraged? Pissed off? He tried gently to explain to his girlfriend that Abraham proves that LDS is a lie, but she refused to accept it.

This tragic tale illustrates the damage indoctrination can do. There is absolutely no doubt in the mind of anyone who is not LDS that the Book of Abraham proves Joseph Smith to be a charlatan. Yet believers keep believing.

Other Comments by wednesdayguevara

38. Comment #89681 by walk on November 21, 2007 at 1:27 pm

wednesdayguevara,

Tell me about it! I've presented my wife (the Mormons are working hard to get her) with tons of info (Abraham included) to try to show her the truth about Mormonism. But she WANTS to believe badly because they've scared the crap out of her with the "Christianity won't get you to heaven" ploy. She's actually said, "Joseph Smith COULD have seen god. So, maybe he did a few dishonest things afterward - - - after all he's only human." Whew!

Other Comments by walk

39. Comment #89685 by dazzjazz on November 21, 2007 at 1:42 pm

I think there is one too many instances of the letter "m" in "Mormon" !!!

Other Comments by dazzjazz

40. Comment #89688 by oxytocin on November 21, 2007 at 1:54 pm

Walk, my sincerest condolences about your wife. Maybe you might counter with a volley of convincing evidence for why she should be fearful about not converting to Islam, or become a Jehovah's Witness [this should be easy], or see the truth of Scientology. Hell, Mohammad COULD have seen god too. Equate the lunacy of all and you defeat them all. In theory anyway.

Man, we humans are such credulity machines.

Other Comments by oxytocin

41. Comment #89690 by walk on November 21, 2007 at 1:57 pm

dazzjazz (39.),

Well, the Book of Mormon WAS translated from golden plates carved by a guy named Moroni! Or, should it be spelled Moron-i.

oxytocin (40),

Thanks for the sympathy and the suggestions. She DOES realize that if she grew up in Iraq she'd believe in Mohammed and Allah. So she KNOWS that her beliefs were indoctrinated during childhood. The problem is, she's crazy about Jesus, and becomes highly offended by the suggestion that he may not have existed, and that some of his biblical quotes are less than admirable. It's really a tough one.


Other Comments by walk

42. Comment #89717 by GoatBoy36 on November 21, 2007 at 3:20 pm

If anyone wants a crash course in Mormonism then check out Jon Krakauer's "Under The Banner of Heaven".

I listened to it on tape when it came out and it just blew my mind. Golden tablets, peep stones, magic glasses, man those Mormons believe some crazy stuff!

One of my favourite parts was when the guy who was writing down Joseph Smith's ahem ... translation ... of those (invisible) golden tablets took it all home with him and his wife blew a fuse and said so THIS is what you've been doing is it, and threw the lot in the fire. Great stuff!

But the behaviour of the Laffertys .. not so great.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Under_the_Banner_of_Heaven:_A_Story_of_Violent_Faith

http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,595079489,00.html

btw wasn't it interesting that Romney said: I'm a Christian (when asked about his Mormon beliefs?) Didn't Rev. Sharpton or somebody say recently in a debate with Hitchens that Mormons *weren't* Christians at all?

I'd like to see Cavuto (or Bill O'Reilly) get Romney and Sharpton on together and force them to has that issue out!

Other Comments by GoatBoy36

43. Comment #89726 by IPV4 on November 21, 2007 at 3:37 pm

There are only two Republicans in the race that would not be total disasters, possibly worse than Bush, and they are McCain and Romney.

I'm a New Yorker and still think Rudy would be a horrible president even though he wasnt too bad as our mayor.

Other Comments by IPV4

44. Comment #89734 by walk on November 21, 2007 at 3:49 pm

GoatBoy36,

I believe most Christians (that understand Mormonism) don't consider them Christian. Mormons say all Christians are damned, and no better than the "whores of Babylon". I believe this would be a deal-breaker! The Mormons are desperately trying to court the support of evangelicals by CALLING themselves Christian, but the more their beliefs are exposed the harder it will be.

Other Comments by walk

45. Comment #89736 by wednesdayguevara on November 21, 2007 at 3:54 pm

38. Comment #89681 by walk on November 21, 2007 at 1:27 pm

How horrible! Please don't let them get their claws into her. Once you're in, they make it very difficult to leave. Does she know the church takes ten percent off the top? No matter what. Probably you have told her this.

Does she know that since you are not a Mormon, she will never enter the highest level of heaven?

Oh! You could send her here:

http://www.exmormon.org/tract2.htm

It's a really good essay for people investigating the LDS faith.

Good luck.

Other Comments by wednesdayguevara

46. Comment #89748 by walk on November 21, 2007 at 4:08 pm

Thanks very much, wednesday.

She knows about the tithing, and how hard it is to leave. Believe it or not, it's her BOSS (a chiropractor, and bishop of the local LDS church!) who has been forcing this on her. I know what he's doing is highly illegal, but we both like him very much as a person and she wants to keep her job. It's really a mess. I've been fighting this for 8 yrs. now (videos, books, etc.) She hasn't joined yet, but we just got remarried, and now they'll ACCEPT her.

I WILL tell her about the highest-level-of-heaven thing (forgot about that one). Thanks again.

Other Comments by walk

47. Comment #89780 by GoatBoy36 on November 21, 2007 at 5:26 pm

walk,

I can remember maybe 20 years ago, the LDS made a big push in my area (NE Scotland) and quite a few of the local skippers (i.e. wealthy fishermen as opposed to the deckhands) signed up on the dotted line. It all seemed to fade away though. However, I've been working in Aberdeen quite a bit this last year, and couldn't help noticing the big LDS building on North Anderson Drive, just at the junction with Lang Stracht (you can't miss it). I did wonder if it was busy nowadays or what the score was. I did a quick search just now and found that there is another centre in Danestone (a district in Aberdeen), one in Mintlaw and another in Huntly (!!) which is just up the road. (There's another in Elgin, which I've also driven past.)

http://www.lds.org.uk/chapel_locator.php?county=2&keyword=&post_code=&show_text=1&town=&type=MH

http://www.lds.org.uk/chapel_locator.php?type=MH&show_text=1&county=112&town=&post_code=&keyword=&btnPCode=Find

Thinking back now, I remember also when I ended up driving one of the local milk trucks for a while, just covering for one of the lads who was ill. There were a couple of young Mormon fellows living in digs locally and one fine morning I drove the truck round the corner, just making my deliveries, and came upon the pair of them racing about the street. I stood on the brakes. One of them appeared to have lost it altogether and was running about the street in the early morning in his underpants (he didn't take them off, natch) and the other fellow was trying to catch him and calm him down. I wondered what had driven that poor lad's mind to go like that. Years later when I listened to Krakauer's book, I began to understand ..

Anyhow I always kind of wondered what Christians thought about the Mormons and vice versa. Neither group seem to say much about it. As you say, if Mormons think Christians are damned it could be something of a "deal breaker" in the upcoming round of elections in America.

One other strange thing I remember from Krakauer's book was one fellow who had left the Mormons but who still wore his special underpants. He couldn't quite bring himself to take them off. They'd had that much of a hold on him.

Now that would be a beezer of a question for some reporter to ask Mr. Romney: "Are you wearing special underpants? If so, why?"

gb.

Other Comments by GoatBoy36

48. Comment #89787 by windweaver on November 21, 2007 at 5:37 pm

Here's a link to a youtube video about the religion that the Mormon church tried to ban. It really is a VERY bizarre belief system:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zy0d1HbItOo

Other Comments by windweaver

49. Comment #89789 by walk on November 21, 2007 at 5:41 pm

GoatBoy,

I read the Krakauer book last year. Shocking.

I wish I knew where to find it, but on satellite radio a while back there was a song "Secret Underwear" sung to the tune of Secret Agent Man. It was hilarious! You know darn well SOMEONE will eventually ask Romney that question (and, are you wearing them NOW?).

In regards to the lad running the streets in his shorts, there are reports of an alarming rate of teen suicide among Utah Mormons. It has to do with trying to live up to impossible standards. It's a shame what illogical faith can do.

Other Comments by walk

50. Comment #89796 by GoatBoy36 on November 21, 2007 at 5:57 pm

Secret Underpants.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KsXzHLiHTOU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9upYoCHyCv4

windweaver, I'm watching that youtube video just now, man that's freaking me out almost as much as reading the Old Testament.

walk, people don't often realise how harmful religion can be to young children, it certainly didn't do me any good when I was young. My family's broken up, one of my sibling's lives is in ruins, I've had some serious problems in my life myself, and religion is behind all that. I talked to another bloke who had been brought up, like me, in the "Brethren", & he told me that he'd been standing down the pier about to jump in one day. He couldn't take any more. This was while we were both in a local bar drinking serious amounts, I mean genuine alcohol abuse in a major way; addiction is another problem that rears its ugly head as one's brain tries to deal with fabulous tales on the one hand and reality on the other. The two just don't match up. I'm saddened but not too surprised that there's a high rate of suicide among young men and women in Utah. And I'm not being flippant here, but I think I'm right in saying that there are quite a few young women from Mormon familes who have ended up working in the American porn industry. I don't even want to think about how that came about. RD has spoken about religion being a kind of child abuse and you know something, he's not wrong, he's really not.

gb.

Other Comments by GoatBoy36