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Thursday, December 13, 2007 | Reason : Political | print version Print | Comments

Document Here's an improvement on democracy

by Peter Watson, Times Online

Reposted from:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/guest_contributors/article2980287.ece

Our priorities in the West are wrong. Secularism is what we should be spreading across the globe

If Gillian Gibbons, the British schoolteacher, was not incarcerated somewhere in Sudan, the whole Teddy Bear called Mohamed incident would be comical. But it serves to remind us once again that fundamentalist religion and Western values do not sit together. And it rubs in that we should spend more time promoting secularism around the world and worry less about spreading democracy.

Consider some dates. Native Americans got the vote in the United States in 1924. Spanish women were given the same privilege in 1931, French women in 1944. Lords of the Realm in the United Kingdom could not vote in parliamentary elections until 1999. Although democracy began in Athens two and a half thousand years ago, it was for centuries a fragile flower and has blossomed only recently.

Democracy, we tell ourselves, is a hallmark of "the West", the treasure that the rest of the World envies and that accounts for the pre-eminence of Europe and North America in economic progress, intellectual dominance and moral freedoms.

But it's not the case when you examine the chronology. The rise of the West had much less to do with democracy than with the rise of secularism. The West's advance was chiefly related to the decline in the influence of religion that sought the truth by "looking in" to see what God had to say, and its replacement by looking out, deriving authority from observation, experimentation and exploration.

The original figures to draw attention to this were Bishop Robert Grosseteste, early in the 13th century, the first person to imagine the experiment, and his contemporary, St Thomas Aquinas, the first man to imagine a secular world, a world without God directing everything. Secularism is not the same as atheism, of course � both Grosseteste and Aquinas were priests. But they helped us to escape from the overbearing medieval view that the world has meaning and pattern only in relation to God.

Building on that came the Florentine bankers, funding the expeditions to Africa, the Far East and the New World, Copernicus, Galileo and Newton, showing that even the heavens were rationally organised, culminating in the first Industrial Revolution and the steam engine, the spinning machine, modern chemistry and electricity and the second industrial revolution, mainly in Germany and Britain at the end of the 19th century, that gave us pharmaceuticals, the motor car, aniline dyes, movies and atomic energy.

These innovations owed little to democracy. They most certainly had to do with new thoughts about liberty and psychology (Adam Smith's The Wealth of Nations, David Hume's Treatise of Human Nature), and with the belief that men and women from the lower classes have abilities commensurate with those of their social "betters". But they were unrelated to the formal extension of those liberties in the form of suffrage.

Prosperity, initiated by science, fostered yet more secular thought, more thought about liberty and human nature, in a virtuous cycle that led to democracy. That prosperity was not the fruit of democracy. Britain became a world power in the 19th century at a time when only one man in seven and no women had the right to vote. German science made great advances when the country's Chancellor and his Cabinet were not elected at all, but appointed by the king/emperor.

This is not an argument against democracy; it is an argument about priorities. At a time when the world is calling for elections in Pakistan, this basic truth is being overlooked. Forcing Pervez Musharraf, a dictator but a relatively benign one, and most importantly a secular ruler, into elections that radical - or openly political - Muslims might win, risks a replay of Iraq, where the West deposed a secular ruler, a brutal one it is true, but nowhere near as threatening as the risk that will exist if radical Islam gains the day.

The same is true of Turkey, which has elected an Islamic party whose Prime Minister, according to The Times's own accounts, is taking the country surreptitiously into an intolerant Islamic - and inherently anti-Western - stance. Look at what democracy has produced in Iran, Palestine and Zimbabwe.

The inconvenient truth is that the West should be exporting secularism around the world before it exports democracy. Democracy implies not just one person one vote but - no less important - that the political process proceeds by rational means, by argument, by persuasion, and is based on knowledge that is as objective, as scientific, as one can make it. The objective knowledge has to come first.

In China, at the moment, every member of the Standing Committee of the Politburo, the central bastion of power, is a trained engineer - every one. There is not a religious figure in sight, the country is going from strength to strength, former Maoists have seen the light, recognising rationally the prosperity that technology can bring; and elections are simply not the issue there that they are in Pakistan. Prosperity comes from secularism, and where you have prosperity you have political and social stability. Only once you have stability can you start thinking sensibly about elections.

Peter Watson is the author of A Terrible Beauty: The People and Ideas that Shaped the Modern Mind, and Ideas: A History from Fire to Freud

Comments 1 - 30 of 30 |

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1. Comment #98250 by Arcturus on December 13, 2007 at 11:12 am

 avatarI don't know ... would we "spread" secularism by force? I don't think so, we have so many bad examples of brutal dictators. Do we want to support them only because they are secular? I think it will be worse in the long run, not to mention the countless people killed in the meantime.

Maybe it's good not to meddle, and lead by example.

But by now, we are in deep s**t, so it's a hard dillema about what to do with the Middle East.

Other Comments by Arcturus

2. Comment #98251 by HumanisticJones on December 13, 2007 at 11:15 am

Reminds me in a way of the phrase "An empty stomach does not make a good political adviser." The US, the country in which I live, has taken the startlingly narrow-sighted view that we can bomb a country into rubble, depose the current ruling party, leave utilities and basic human needs in tatters and then simply expect that the first set of voting will fix it all.

Desperate voters will vote not for the actual best leader but for the candidate that promises them the quickest fix the their ills. We saw that here last year when we elected a majority of Democrats that are largely politically impotent and ineffective. They weren't elected on any other merit than their promise to do away with the mistakes of the Republicans. In a country where the mindset of the people is still that god will provide, the candidate that offers the quickest return to God's graces is going to win out and we'll just end up going from a man that killed because he feared losing his power to a man that will kill because it is his holy duty to do so.

I would be interested to see the results of a surge of secular social thinkers instead of a surge of ground troops in the middle east.

Other Comments by HumanisticJones

3. Comment #98252 by ronfac on December 13, 2007 at 11:20 am

What an excellent site. I keep finding great articles here that I would be unlikely to come across otherwise. Keep up the good work, Josh.

Another book to add to the reading list.

Other Comments by ronfac

4. Comment #98254 by ChrisMcL on December 13, 2007 at 11:32 am

 avatarI think that we in the West might describe China's government as brutal and totalitarian. It may be very secular and therefore stable and prosperous, but I would not want to live there.

Other Comments by ChrisMcL

5. Comment #98265 by notsobad on December 13, 2007 at 11:48 am

 avatarNot just secularism but anti-dogmatism (awkward word) to avoid non-religious bullshit (e.g. communism).

Other Comments by notsobad

6. Comment #98269 by Ducklike on December 13, 2007 at 11:57 am

 avatarGreat article, but wait for it, I think I hear the christians shouting that they, not secularism, were responsible for all these advances.

Other Comments by Ducklike

7. Comment #98270 by suffolkthinker on December 13, 2007 at 11:58 am

"I think that we in the West might describe China's government as brutal and totalitarian. It may be very secular and therefore stable and prosperous, but I would not want to live there."

Having spent significant time in both China and Saudi Arabia I can confidently state I would choose China to live in. In fact I would choose China over many, maybe even most, regimes in the world. Certainly not a democracy by our standards. Certainly they use the death penalty way too much for my tastes (but so does Texas). Certainly not a comfortable place if you really rail against the system. These days however the PRC is generally IMO a place that is set up to advance its citizens and does a pretty good job at it. Has generally good laws administered generally fairly. And yes it is totally secular too and while not encouraging to minority religions is much more tolerent of them than virtually every Muslim country.

That is not meant to excuse the bad things done by the regime of the PRC, just to put more postive view of the place than ChrisMcL's

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8. Comment #98273 by Diacanu on December 13, 2007 at 12:03 pm

 avatarDucklike-

I think I hear the christians shouting that they, not secularism, were responsible for all these advances.


Yeah, flat Earth, and geocentrism, and the demon theory of disease were just super.
Lol.

Other Comments by Diacanu

9. Comment #98277 by Goldy on December 13, 2007 at 12:13 pm

I think that we in the West might describe China's government as brutal and totalitarian. It may be very secular and therefore stable and prosperous, but I would not want to live there.

I am married to a Chinese woman and so have a large in-law family there. I go quite often. I too wouldn't like to live there, but for totally different reasons. It's actually not too bad - people complain and bitch and moan like everyone else. If you can afford it, you can have it. I also have the feeling they don't really have the same views on freedom as we do in the west. You may be making a comparison between oranges and apples here.
Try going there just once - see what it's like. Don't go to Shanghai in the summer unless you like sweating.

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10. Comment #98280 by Ducklike on December 13, 2007 at 12:16 pm

 avatarDiacanu,

"flat Earth, and geocentrism, and the demon theory of disease"


It's what Sherri Shepard feeds her child!

EEESH!

Other Comments by Ducklike

11. Comment #98287 by alexmzk on December 13, 2007 at 12:30 pm

i imagine good education would play a part.

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12. Comment #98291 by BAEOZ on December 13, 2007 at 12:42 pm

 avatarGood article. Unfettered democracy can lead to a majority working might makes right.

Bishop Robert Grosseteste, early in the 13th century, the first person to imagine the experiment

I reckon the ancient Greeks might argue with this...

Other Comments by BAEOZ

13. Comment #98294 by GodlessHeathen on December 13, 2007 at 12:49 pm

 avatarSeems one of the best ways to spread secularism is prosperity. If people have less of a need for an invisible friend to get through tough days, they tend to be less concerned that others have a differing opinion on the reality of that imaginary friend and its demands. Takes a hell of a lot of time to do, though.

Sure, "the sword" has been an effective means of quickly spreading some ideology around, but that seems to have a few very undesirable side effects.

Other Comments by GodlessHeathen

14. Comment #98299 by Bonzai on December 13, 2007 at 12:56 pm

Goldy,

I am married to a Chinese woman and so have a large in-law family there. I go quite often. I too wouldn't like to live there, but for totally different reasons


Of course you wouldn't. Nobody likes to live with the in laws. :)

Other Comments by Bonzai

15. Comment #98301 by Goldy on December 13, 2007 at 12:58 pm

Cheers, Bonzai. That's coffee all over my keyboard! :-D
Top tip - hernia operations can really hurt when laughing hard even 3 weeks after surgery!

Other Comments by Goldy

16. Comment #98303 by Rtambree on December 13, 2007 at 12:59 pm

Peter Watson is an under-rated public intellectual (probably because he doesn't have John Brockman as his literary and PR agent). His two books on intellectual history should be textbooks in every school - they give you the framework upon which to hang historical events that you learn throughout life.

They're big tomes, but they're worth it - years of research and writing for the cost of a McDonalds Meal.

Other Comments by Rtambree

17. Comment #98361 by Ducklike on December 13, 2007 at 2:08 pm

 avatarPeter Watson... an "under-rated" intellectual historian... source of clarity and proponent of secularism. This sounds like a job for... The TEMPLETON FOUNDATION!

AAAKK! Run! Hide your Freethinkers!

Other Comments by Ducklike

18. Comment #98447 by Cartomancer on December 13, 2007 at 3:47 pm

 avatarWooo! Robert Grosseteste gets a mention! That makes historians of medieval English thought in the twelfth and thirteenth centuries like me very happy!

I think the point here is that Grosseteste was one of the first to imagine the secular experiment in the line of secular thinkers that can be traced to the present day. Classical political thought was a key influence on his thinking and that of his predecessors (John of Salisbury perhaps deserves to be mentioned as much as RG, especially given that he was writing some fifty years earlier). The gap between the end of antiquity and the central middle ages is very telling though. No such gap exists after the twelfth century, so as originators and first proponents of "modern" secularism there is a good deal of credit to be given to these scholastic thinkers.

Admittedly Grosseteste was a bit of a fundie in some ways. It was he who was responsible for kicking all the prostitutes out of Oxford when he was Chancellor, and his anti-semitic zeal was fervent and undiluted. In fact this is because he was an honest, rational fundamentalist. He saw the scriptural and patristic injunctions against the Jews and applied them rigorously and logically - even going so far as to write to local noblewomen and upbraid them for insufficient maltreatment of the jews on their lands. This is highly unlike the wishy-washy attitudes of pie-munching Dominican Thomas Aquinas (an older contemporary). Aquinas actually had secular rulers write to him and ask what they should do about their jews. Aquinas said it should be a matter of conscience and the scriptural authority could be interpreted leniently.

Grosseteste also had some very interesting ideas on the creation of the universe from a single point of light and the possibility of counting infinities. He was one of the first men to systematically use Aristotle's posterior analytics and a great proponent of mathematical modelling (though not, alas, a great mathematician). The great Roger Bacon praised him to the skies for his attitudes, which is no small thing given that Bacon despised pretty much everyone else and thought the entire academic establishment of his own day had got it utterly and completely wrong about everything.

Oh, and yes, very perceptive about the whole secularism and democracy thing. here here.

Other Comments by Cartomancer

19. Comment #98504 by njwong on December 13, 2007 at 7:57 pm

 avatarAs a student of history, I bought Peter Watson's book "Ideas: A History from Fire to Freud" earlier this year. At 1118 pages (the paperback edition) and 36 chapters, this was a tome by every definition! It took me more than a month to complete it (a chapter a day). But it is very good, and I highly recommend it!

For members of this site, chapter 7 "The Ideas of Israel, The Idea of Jesus" is definitely worth reading. Muhammad is covered in chapter 12 "Falsafah and al-Jabr in Baghdad and Toledo". (Note: "Falsafah" is "Islamic Philosophy based on Aristotelianism and Neoplatonism". "Al-Jabr" is "Algebra").

Other Comments by njwong

20. Comment #98516 by gkkalai on December 13, 2007 at 8:18 pm

Umm...a different view.While i agree religion is the most notorious of all evil,Even without it, there are many illness in this world.
This article begs the question-How are we going to secularise the nations that are founded on religion?who will tie the bell? I can't think of ways to secularise middle east at present!!!

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21. Comment #98524 by secular82 on December 13, 2007 at 8:36 pm

Watson's thesis about the role of secularism in society sounds fascinating, but it is such a sweeping generalization that it requires an enormous amount of historical and sociological evidence that would take years to compile. Ultimately, I don't think one idea, no matter how brilliant, can account for so much. Societies are extremely complicated, and there are thousands of factors at work every day in promoting or inhibiting prosperity.

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22. Comment #98583 by Cartomancer on December 13, 2007 at 10:24 pm

 avatarHe's not saying that secularism is the Panacea Universalis of all the world's ills, just that it's a damn sight more effective than Democracy in alleviating them. If anything Democracy is the child of secularism, certainly not the other way around.

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23. Comment #98584 by Bonzai on December 13, 2007 at 10:38 pm

Is he proposing secular dictatorships?

If all you have got are self serving secular dictators who are brutal and corrupt, the people would naturally associate secularism with oppression. That actually drives them towards traditional religiosity. Remember the Shah of Iran anyone?

The article is written under the premise that the U.S. has been in the business of exporting democracy, talking about self delusion! The fact is that U.S. has been undermining genuine democracy throughout the developing world to serve its own agendas. Democracy doesn't just mean having sham elections among a few business men working for American interests.

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24. Comment #98715 by Sean on December 14, 2007 at 5:40 am

Best way I can see to spread secularism is to stop state funding of religious organisations. Let them pay for their own proselytising, and maybe they'll have less money to spend on spreading their message around the world. Don't donate to charities run by religious organisations, particularly those involved overseas. There are plenty of secular alternatives.

Charitable status should be removed from any organisation that proslytises while conducting their work, or treats people different based on religious beliefs.

Even though the west is generally a decent example of secularism, we still export far too much religion to the world.

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25. Comment #98726 by Incredulous on December 14, 2007 at 6:25 am

Democracy implies ... that the political process proceeds by rational means, ... and is based on knowledge that is [as] objective, ... The objective knowledge has to come first.


What if Peter Watson simply means that instead of focussing on the universal idea, i.e. democracy, which is open to abuse, misunderstanding, misinterpretation, misimplementation and can be quite sterile sometimes, we look to more share and export knowledge, reason and ability.

I feel he has a point when he suggests that it is the clear thinking nature of modern, western societies which encourages and promotes successful attitudes and engenders successful practical outcomes.

I think many of us would agree that the most pleasant and successful communities are based on secular principles, indeed it appears that the more secular the nation the more successful and human centred that nation becomes.

The clarion call 'Democracy' seems to have a troubled recent history, and, like atheism, may also be suffering from over exposure to bad press.

Indeed I think Peter may have a point when he states that we simply need to lay more objective foundations before building democratic agencies on top.

I don't know, but it is interesting though.

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26. Comment #98805 by Steven Mading on December 14, 2007 at 11:43 am

Any "Democracy" that puts into its constitution that its laws must be in accordance with a particular religion is automatically NOT a democracy the moment it does that. Such a clause makes it so that the religious leaders get the final say in what is and is not a law. It gives them ultimate veto and judicial power, making them effectively much more important than the bulk of the voters (and the immense influence they have over the voters too adds to the problem, although it could be argued that a secular charismatic person could have the same people-influence as a religious one.)

So while I sort of agree with the article, I'd phrase it differently. It's not that we should promote secularism first and then get around to democracy later, but that we should stop telling the lie that theocratic "democracy" is actually democracy at all. It isn't.

Other Comments by Steven Mading

27. Comment #98837 by Eric Blair on December 14, 2007 at 2:46 pm

I find this a rather bizarre article, overlooking some obvious counter-points.

Virtually all modern Western democracies are secular, whether formally or effectively. The United States, of course, is secular by its Constitution, if not always in practice.

Secularism and liberal democracy – plus education -- go together naturally. Democracy doesn't tend to work very well in countries where the people are deeply religious and illiterate.

If we "change our priorities," as Peter Watson suggests, would this mean supporting undemocratic regimes just because they happen to be secular (or the current leader is tending that way)?

As Ayaan Hirsi Ali has said, the biggest problem with Muslim societies is that they haven't experienced an Enlightenment yet.

In that vein, maybe one of our priorities in sponsoring foreign aid projects should be promoting literacy, through public education. But we have to accept that achieving close to 100% literacy is the first goal, upon which secularism and democracy depend. So we may have to work with religious regimes for a while just to achieve this.

EB

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28. Comment #98894 by prettygoodformonkeys on December 14, 2007 at 8:56 pm

 avatar22. Comment #98583 by Cartomancer:
"Democracy is the child of secularism, certainly not the other way around"
I heartily endorse this, and add that secularism doesn't have to be forced, but at the very least, must always stood up for.

Perhaps we wouldn't be in so big a mess.....

Other Comments by prettygoodformonkeys

29. Comment #99195 by huxley_leopard on December 15, 2007 at 9:45 pm

Democracy is the child of humanism, not secularism. Humanism being the source of the all humans being born equal idea.

Secularism just means keep your irrational beliefs private and tolerate people of other faiths without trying to convert them or otherwise injure them. To achieve toleration, religion has to be kept out of public areas: schools, government etc.

Politicians making decisions based on reason and evidence rather than revelation sounds like not such a bad thing though.

As an engineer, I am glad that all of China's government is made up of engineering graduates - i didn't know that. Engineers are very good at solving problems. It should be noted that not one of Britain's members of parliament is an engineer. Shocking!

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30. Comment #99199 by Cartomancer on December 15, 2007 at 10:03 pm

 avatarI think we can safely say that democracy has many parents across the intellectual spectrum - to say otherwise would be narrowly reductionistic. Secularism and Humanism are fairly closely intertwined anyway, and the distinctions are far from absolute.

Alas there are no medieval historians I know of in any political office anywhere at all at the moment. A world run by us would be a much better place - nothing would get done admittedly, but at least we wouldn't have any new wars (because we'd be too busy making sure we had properly footnoted all the old ones!)

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