1. Comment #100220 by sidfaiwu on December 18, 2007 at 11:52 am

Strange... just strange. They sound like a zany morning radio show. People take them seriously? I hope it's not that many.

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2. Comment #100221 by Bruno on December 18, 2007 at 11:53 am

I was actually a little surprised how one does not even need to listen very hard to hear the desperation between the spoken words of the host. They HATE Professor Dawkins. They hate him because he succeeded with his latest book. They hate him because they know he exposed their bogus livelihoods. ...They know their jig is up. It's just a matter of time.
Merry Mithras to all.

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3. Comment #100223 by sidfaiwu on December 18, 2007 at 11:53 am

This clip is up twice.

EDIT: Not anymore. Thanks for the fix.

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4. Comment #100225 by Rtambree on December 18, 2007 at 11:55 am

Sense of humour 0/10
Analysis 0/10
Honesty 0/10

But at least they're keeping track of what he's saying. My worry is always that each party is insulated in its own cocoon.

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5. Comment #100226 by Janus on December 18, 2007 at 11:55 am

Okay, I admit it, I laughed. It's like a bad Simpsons episode: You feel stupid for laughing, but you still do.

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6. Comment #100238 by Matt7895 on December 18, 2007 at 12:13 pm

I had hoped Ray Comfort and Kirk Cameron had been laughed out of town after everyone saw their silly creationist videotapes on YouTube.

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7. Comment #100240 by BathTub on December 18, 2007 at 12:15 pm

Hahaha they are so clueless, that was hilarious.

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8. Comment #100243 by GodlessHeathen on December 18, 2007 at 12:17 pm

Bleh. Morning radio show "zaniness" like this was never my cuppa. Rtambree's scoring is spot on.

Which figures, really. They do not have anything rational to add to the "debate", all they have - all they ever have - is appeals to emotion. Can't argue with what the good Professor has to say? No sweat, just mock him. Their target audience already believes, they only need a little "feel good" about it.

Heh; it just now occurs to me these sorts of "evangelical" tv and radio shows are nothing but "preaching to the choir".

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9. Comment #100244 by USA_Limey on December 18, 2007 at 12:20 pm

Oh, there are Christian stations up and down the dial where ever you live in the States. My local version is 'word FM'.

I tune in now and again when I need to empty my mind of thought. Dawkins does get mentioned a fair bit and I agree with Bruno, they hate him.

All good stuff.

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10. Comment #100261 by quill on December 18, 2007 at 12:36 pm

For those of you who don't recall, Way of the Master Radio is hosted by Todd Friel, the third, somewhat awkward member of Ray Comfort and Kirk Cameron's ministry, the originators of the dreaded argumentum ad bananum.

Friel also did a radio debate in 2006 with Dan Barker of the Freedom From Religion Foundation, and lost badly - Dan is a member of the Prometheus Society, which means his IQ is equivalent to one in ten thousand. I think if you listen to that debate, you'll have an understanding of why Todd's voice is so broken and desperate in this clip:

http://www.wayofthemasterradio.com/podcast/2006/04/04/friel-barker-debate

And here (edited):

http://youtube.com/watch?v=cINIQqye0Hw&feature=related

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11. Comment #100262 by Matt7895 on December 18, 2007 at 12:37 pm

Thanks Quill, I'll listen to that.

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12. Comment #100264 by BathTub on December 18, 2007 at 12:43 pm

At least you know someone over there is keeping a close eye on this place.

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13. Comment #100282 by Devolution on December 18, 2007 at 12:58 pm

Wow that is truly awful. I cant believe even way of the master is doing the whole "morning zoo" type of radio show. So much irony there my head is about to explode!

BTW how long before Kirk Cameron and Ray Comfort come out as gay lovers? You KNOW its going to happen.

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14. Comment #100286 by Matt7895 on December 18, 2007 at 1:04 pm

Comment #100282 by Devolution on December 18, 2007 at 12:58 pm

BTW how long before Kirk Cameron and Ray Comfort come out as gay lovers? You KNOW its going to happen.

Even if they did, to most reasonable people these days (and I hope most atheists), it wouldn't be a dent on their characters. What I hope would be considerably bigger dents would be their advocacy of creation and their unwavering faith in an imaginary, celestial dictator.

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15. Comment #100292 by Devolution on December 18, 2007 at 1:15 pm

Matt, give me a break its not like I was saying that being gay is in anyway a bad thing, only that to douchebags like Ray and Kirk, homosexuality is an abomination and something they would never admit.

I knew that comment would get misinterpreted.

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16. Comment #100312 by Aidan86 on December 18, 2007 at 1:40 pm

Matt: "Even if they did, to most reasonable people these days (and I hope most atheists), it wouldn't be a dent on their characters."

Of course it would be a dent on their characters, and I hope most atheists ~would~ see that. To spend their lives publicly calling homosexuality an abomination and including it amongst the most evil things that are caused by evil secularism and evolutionary thought while participating in gay activities secretly themselves?! That would be the worst sort of damaging hypocrisy.

Re the radio show: How boring. And who knew Richard sings by whispering in an American accent...

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17. Comment #100320 by Tomcat on December 18, 2007 at 1:47 pm

I absolutely applaud Richard for saying this in the interview. THIS is the factor that will CONVINCE SOOO many people that atheists are ok.

Way of the Master, get ready for your religion to turn into "cult" status.

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18. Comment #100324 by He-man Daunted World on December 18, 2007 at 1:49 pm

"only nature's real" could be a useful mantra

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19. Comment #100352 by AdrianB on December 18, 2007 at 2:14 pm

Just want to further add a recommendation to listening to the debate between Friel and Barker that has been linked by Quill. I have it on my iPod and listen now and again when I want a good laugh.

:)

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20. Comment #100362 by briancoughlanworldcitizen on December 18, 2007 at 2:25 pm

What the fuck was that at the end? If anything, it sounded, perhaps remotely, like Richard Attenborough, I guess it's hard to tell all those limey scientistorists apart. Huh?

I liked the lyrics though:-)

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21. Comment #100363 by Diacanu on December 18, 2007 at 2:25 pm

Lol, this almost sounded like a fake Vice City radio program!
This shit's real?
Lol!!

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22. Comment #100388 by quill on December 18, 2007 at 2:47 pm

Friel also posted a partial video recording of the debate after the fact, placing subtitles beneath Dan and inserting little speeches of his own to highlight Dan's errors in logic. I'm happy to see it got a one-star rating, averaged over 61,000 views; it seems You-Tube people know how to spot a bitch move when they see one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dic5usfQwx0&feature=related

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23. Comment #100394 by SilentMike on December 18, 2007 at 2:52 pm

Are we still on this? What the hell is up with the media getting all excited about this nonesense? I can just imagine the commotion in the ofices a not quite well known, but respectable, american newspaper:

"Hold the presses! Richard Dawkins Sings Carols! No no! throw all that away. Throw all the printed copies away! New edition. Headline: Richard Dawkins Sings Carols. Use the biggest font we have. Subtitle: Renowned atheist scientist says he is a coltural christian and sings carols at christmas. Call all our columnists and tell them they have to write a new column for this weekend's addition since Richard Dawkins Sings Carols. Call our top reporter, and tell him to pack his stuff. I'm sending him to england to get the scoop about Richard Dawkins Singing Carols! And call my wife. Tell her I won't be coming home. Call everybody's wife. No one's going home. We all have to work extra hard around the clock, because Richard Dawkins Sings Carols."

The things that get people excited... Sheesh!

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24. Comment #100399 by admin on December 18, 2007 at 3:01 pm

SilentMike,
That was hilarious! :) I thought that too when posting this.
Josh

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25. Comment #100400 by rev on December 18, 2007 at 3:03 pm

silly humans, silly silly humans.

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26. Comment #100411 by rev on December 18, 2007 at 3:18 pm

were these guys doing satire or were they just shit???, ssshhhh humans

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27. Comment #100414 by SilentMike on December 18, 2007 at 3:19 pm

Thank you Josh. And may I use this opportunity to thank you for everything you do here and tell you how much I apreciate (like everybody else here I'm sure) all your hard work to keep this site going. Thanks for making it possible for me to post my nonesense in such a comfortable friendly place.

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28. Comment #100417 by rev on December 18, 2007 at 3:21 pm

here here. SilentMike.

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29. Comment #100436 by ClemIsMe on December 18, 2007 at 3:48 pm

I am stupider for having listened to this. And I was already toleranced to the low end of the stupid scale, so I may just have found religion.

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30. Comment #100441 by rev on December 18, 2007 at 3:54 pm

Nice one Quill. just listened to half of the dan barker debate, he is very good. or the dick he is debateing is very bad, lol

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31. Comment #100443 by Matt7895 on December 18, 2007 at 3:57 pm

Dan Barker was awesome in that debate, an excellent speaker. To me he draws parallels with Sam Harris in how eloquently and succinctly he can speak. I'd love to see either of those two take on D'Souza.

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32. Comment #100457 by phasmagigas on December 18, 2007 at 4:27 pm

Friel also did a radio debate in 2006 with Dan Barker of the Freedom From Religion Foundation, and lost badly - Dan is a member of the Prometheus Society, which means his IQ is equivalent to one in ten thousand. I think if you listen to that debate, you'll have an understanding of why Todd's voice is so broken and desperate in this clip:

http://www.wayofthemasterradio.com/podcast/2006/04/04/friel-barker-debate

holy moses, when todd begins with a little story i thought it was to be used as a catchy introduction, it escalated into a full on preaching session, anybody who falls for this tripe is as far as i can ascertain far more gullible than I.

Dan needs to brush up on evolution a bit so he can answer horrible questions like what came first, the bones, muscles or tendons, ie quuestions that cannot be answered with soundbites but require an explanation that would exceed the mental capacity of someone like todd.

get ready to hear straw men, assertions and general ignorance like never before. indeed id go as far as to say upon listening to todd he sounds like a total psycho and the type of perverted nonsense he spews is what keeps the weak on their knees.

3 mins into teh Q&A todd demonstrates both his inability to answer a question and his deliberate deviousness, he skips the evo question by saying 'waht evidence?' then jumps onto the previous question on morality that was thrown at Dan although its not his question, of course he can preach another sermon here, a despicable individual.

his point that all transitional fossils are 'fully formed' and so not transitional shows that he is only used to preaching to the most uninformed, ill educated sections of society, such a ridiculous statement is a testament to the education the man didnt receive.

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33. Comment #100474 by quill on December 18, 2007 at 5:06 pm

I thought Dan did pretty well on the evolution questions, in general. Todd asked him some dumbass question relating to gender - "which evolved first, male or female?" - and Dan succinctly pointed out that there are many forms of life that reproduce with only one gender, female.

PWNED.

He could've done better on the muscles/bone question, but I think he showed well enough that Todd was basically arguing from personal ignorance.

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34. Comment #100476 by phasmagigas on December 18, 2007 at 5:19 pm

i thought Dan did pretty well on the evolution questions, in general. Todd asked him some dumbass question relating to gender - "which evolved first, male or female?" - and Dan succinctly pointed out that there are many forms of life that reproduce with only one gender, female.

id have thrown the question back and asked, so what is male and female?

Other Comments by phasmagigas

35. Comment #100477 by phasmagigas on December 18, 2007 at 5:26 pm

He could've done better on the muscles/bone question, but I think he showed well enough that Todd was basically arguing from personal ignorance.

the problem when an answer isnt explained well the less able theists will be unable to differentiate BS from good arguments. What we hear from this 'debate' is a good attempt from dan to give real explanations but todd gives nothing more than emotional sounding sermons, the weak minded will side with the theist as they will simply go with what they know.

as i tend not to listen to sermons this debate has opened my eyes to just what the human mind can become under religious indoctrination. the way todd keeps litearlly BEGGING that we accept jesus is simply nausea inducing, i can tolerate the ramblings of fred phelps over this guy, fred doesnt pretend to be nice.

listening to todd has given me a new insight into the religious mind and how my mind just cannot do it.

The debate was ultimately flawed as there was basically no debate, it revolved around dan making arguments followed by a bilious sermon of begging and pleading by todd. nasty.

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36. Comment #100487 by quill on December 18, 2007 at 5:52 pm

the problem when an answer isnt explained well the less able theists will be unable to differentiate BS from good arguments. What we hear from this 'debate' is a good attempt from dan to give real explanations but todd gives nothing more than emotional sounding sermons, the weak minded will side with the theist as they will simply go with what they know.

That's probably true, but then, I don't think Dan was aiming to convert the weak-minded members of the audience. Those segments of the population are just stuck with religion for the time being.

And yeah, Todd, wow. All of the Way of the Master people are like that. Remember their debate with the Rational Response Squad? Ray Comfort just broke into a full-fledged sermon about the Ten Commandments after having told ABC News and everyone else that he would not even mention the Bible during the debate.

It's hard to tell what goes on inside the minds of such people. Maybe they truly believe that other people's souls are in danger, and so they can't restrain themselves from lying to news reporters, breaking their own rules, misrepresenting science, etc. Or maybe they're just liars and frauds. We'll never know.

...Or maybe with Sam's new technique, we might. :)

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37. Comment #100496 by tacitus on December 18, 2007 at 6:07 pm

I believe the "Way of the Master" style is supposed to appeal to teens and college students. They sometimes do a segment where they waylay some hapless kid on the street and start asking them questions about the state of their "salvation".

They start off asking questions like "Have you ever stolen anything." and "Have you ever lied to anyone." and then on to asking them what should happen to those who cheat and steal (get punished), then we move on to Hell, then finally, of course, the "free gift of salvation". It's all rather pathetic and you end up feeling really sorry for the kid who got stuck in the middle of it all.

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38. Comment #100501 by quill on December 18, 2007 at 6:20 pm

I usually just tell people like that that if I've done something wrong, I'll take responsibility for it. I don't need someone else to take the punishment for my misdeeds.

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39. Comment #100502 by phasmagigas on December 18, 2007 at 6:21 pm

It's hard to tell what goes on inside the minds of such people. Maybe they truly believe that other people's souls are in danger, and so they can't restrain themselves from lying to news reporters, breaking their own rules, misrepresenting science, etc. Or maybe they're just liars and frauds. We'll never know.

by the end i was simply luaghing, todds argument against polytheism redefines for me the way a theist can delude themselves, and then he says that dan makes their blood boil. incredible.

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40. Comment #100503 by Goldy on December 18, 2007 at 6:27 pm

They start off asking questions like "Have you ever stolen anything." and "Have you ever lied to anyone." and then on to asking them what should happen to those who cheat and steal (get punished), then we move on to Hell, then finally, of course, the "free gift of salvation". It's all rather pathetic and you end up feeling really sorry for the kid who got stuck in the middle of it all.

Someone did that to me once. I lied :-) Stopped that discussion dead.

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41. Comment #100516 by ADePSP on December 18, 2007 at 7:18 pm

Christ doesn't come into my xmas... I like the trees and presents and what did Russell Brand say, oh yeah, "that day christ was nailed to a turkey"... It's a pagan feastival and a good one too...

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42. Comment #100517 by devolve on December 18, 2007 at 7:19 pm

Wow, quill. Thanks (I guess... maybe) for the Way of the Master links. I had never heard Dan Barker before, but now I think I should read his book.

I was mostly amused by "Todd" in the debate with Barker all the way up until Dan asked him whether he would have prevented the 9/11 attacks had he the power. At that point, Todd and his beliefs no longer seemed to me to be merely misguided, but rather malevolent. For those who -- probably wisely -- did not listen to this debate, Todd replied (in part) that not only did the people who died on 9/11 deserve it, but that furthermore we ALL deserve it.

Then follow it up with the implication that human suffering is "righteous", and examples of circular reasoning so egregious that even someone so unschooled in formal debate as I am can recognize them... Sheesh!

I simply can't imagine how anyone goes about trying to debate these people. I imagine I'd run out of the room screaming in frustration after the first five minutes. Thank goodness for the "Four Horsemen" and all the rest who say what I wish I had the rhetorical prowess to say myself.

I guess I'm lucky I grew up in a family that was nominally Christian, but not very zealous about it. I can't begin to imagine what it would be like to grow up in a household headed by the likes of "Todd". I knew some kids like that when I was a kid. I wonder what they're up to now.

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43. Comment #100518 by thompjs on December 18, 2007 at 7:20 pm

Sorry, I couldn't listen to whole thing.

I see Contemporary Christian Humor is about as bad as Contemporary Christian Music.

Other Comments by thompjs

44. Comment #100531 by burn0gas on December 18, 2007 at 8:15 pm

Damn, that was too funny!
I can't decide if I want these guys to go away or keep them around for the good laughs?

Well, off to decorate my Tree of Knowledge for the season :-)


Other Comments by burn0gas

45. Comment #100539 by quill on December 18, 2007 at 9:17 pm

Comment #100517 by devolve:

I was mostly amused by "Todd" in the debate with Barker all the way up until Dan asked him whether he would have prevented the 9/11 attacks had he the power. At that point, Todd and his beliefs no longer seemed to me to be merely misguided, but rather malevolent.

For me, it was when Todd began warning everyone that "He is a wrath-filled god" and that "The smoke of your torment will rise up for all eternity," or however he worded it. Todd's world is quite a troubled place...

Other Comments by quill

46. Comment #100544 by heathen2 on December 18, 2007 at 9:29 pm

Just got done listening to Dan and Todd. Thanks Quill. That was maddening, hilarious, revolting, all at the same time.

Although he displayed his ignorance and arrogance throughout, Todd really showed how lacking he is when attempting to answer the question about polytheism. He knows nothing about other religions, yet proclaims his own to be true. What a nutbag.

Dan Barker was great. He so easily slipped into his former religious persona at times, it was a bit unnerving. I really enjoyed his calm, reasoning tone, but he also spoke with passion, especially when discussing Todd's "bankrupt morality".

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47. Comment #100549 by mdowe on December 18, 2007 at 9:36 pm

I think Richard Dawkins, Daniel Dennett, Sam Harris and Christopher Hitchens should get together and do a Christmas album -- just to poke'em in the eye =) Let the fundies deal with that...

(Perhaps with a large choir children ... Monty Python style).

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48. Comment #100553 by Styrer- on December 18, 2007 at 9:58 pm

That was a hoot - very amusing indeed!

Not for the reasons the jocks may think, poor fellas.

My heart swells whenever I hear the Christian virtues embodied as beautifully and as movingly as they are here. Ah, Merry Christmas, one and all.

I feel all warm and fuzzy after that.

Best,
Styrer

Other Comments by Styrer-

49. Comment #100556 by Edanator on December 18, 2007 at 10:15 pm

47. Comment #100549 by mdowe: I think Richard Dawkins, Daniel Dennett, Sam Harris and Christopher Hitchens should get together and do a Christmas album -- just to poke'em in the eye =) Let the fundies deal with that...

Dan Barker is a skilled musician who has written many songs AND has a great singing voice. I think he should be in on this album as well. I'd definitely buy it!

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50. Comment #100588 by TheTrueScotsman on December 19, 2007 at 12:27 am

I hate to tell you guys but Comfort and Cameron are idolised by many in the US Heartland. I have an aquaintance (well it is a fundie I have regular contact with, he does a podcast with some friends and I've got to know them reasonably well) in the Mid-West who mentioned that their church had been showing these idiots' videos as part of a 6 week course, and the congragation of the Lutheran mega-church were lapping them up!

We might laugh at their stupidity and simplicity but they get their message across to a US public which seems to be becoming more and more credulous and where the scientific, realistic outlook is being increasingly marginilised. On a recent trip over there I went to Zion National Park in Utah (fantastic place) and the official tour guides always used words like "Scientists say that these rocks are X millions of years old" or "It is claimed that glaciers carved...etc" Never wrong, just being rather circumspect and something I can't imagine being said in Europe.

I get the impression that, to mainstream Americans, certain sciences have become something "they" do; something the mainstream benefits from but would really like to do without. One can simply make a choice who or what to believe.

My aquaintance is a public school teacher and he mentioned recently he had to cover for an absent biology teacher for a few hours. He said (something like) "I read some of their textbooks, you really should see what BS they are teaching the kids these days". I queried him to ask why he, A TEACHER for goodness sake, could not use the basic critical thinking he uses in his history classes on his strict Bible literalism. He maintained that he encouraged his students to be critical thinkers and not just accept the scientific conscensus but to look beyond the scientists narrow claims.

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