










It is possible to be moral without God2. Comment #104926 by nickthelight on December 30, 2007 at 3:26 am
3. Comment #104928 by Animavore on December 30, 2007 at 3:47 am
4. Comment #104929 by UncleJJ on December 30, 2007 at 4:00 am
An interesting perspective by the Bishop. I have just one comment for now5. Comment #104931 by Geoff on December 30, 2007 at 4:12 am
6. Comment #104932 by scooternyc on December 30, 2007 at 4:20 am
7. Comment #104933 by jaytee_555 on December 30, 2007 at 4:26 am
The Bishop seems to follow the logic of morality being derived from genes doing their best to survive into the next generation, but then cannot resist the temptation of adding a totally unjustified and unnecessary supernatural element.8. Comment #104934 by PaulJ on December 30, 2007 at 4:44 am
9. Comment #104935 by briancoughlanworldcitizen on December 30, 2007 at 4:44 am
10. Comment #104936 by phil rimmer on December 30, 2007 at 4:50 am
Religious people have been at fault in the past for slagging off moralities that did not have a faith basis.
At the beginning of this new year, with the world so stricken with growing inequality, corruption, decadence and conflict, each of us, believer and unbeliever alike, need all the help we can get.
One can only capitalize that which already exists from within.
11. Comment #104937 by notsobad on December 30, 2007 at 4:50 am
Yes, Prime Minister:
Jim Hacker: Is there anyone in the church who doesn't believe in God?
Sir Humphrey: Yes, most of the Bishops.
--
Sir Humphrey: The Church is looking for a candidate to maintain the balance.
Master of Baillie College: What balance?
Sir Humphrey: Between those that believe in God and those that don't.
12. Comment #104940 by scooternyc on December 30, 2007 at 5:03 am
13. Comment #104941 by phil rimmer on December 30, 2007 at 5:06 am
14. Comment #104943 by Acleron on December 30, 2007 at 5:13 am
RD draws on facts to provide an argument for innate morality. This is infinitely more convincing than the bishop who can only provide an analogy in music.15. Comment #104946 by Animavore on December 30, 2007 at 5:47 am
16. Comment #104948 by briancoughlanworldcitizen on December 30, 2007 at 6:03 am
17. Comment #104953 by black wolf on December 30, 2007 at 6:34 am
18. Comment #104954 by Dr Benway on December 30, 2007 at 6:34 am
19. Comment #104955 by troyreynolds86 on December 30, 2007 at 6:36 am
I am impressed. A small step in the right direction.20. Comment #104959 by black wolf on December 30, 2007 at 6:53 am
21. Comment #104967 by Barbara on December 30, 2007 at 7:28 am
22. Comment #104972 by Matt7895 on December 30, 2007 at 8:07 am
I very much like and respect Lord Harries, but I disagree with his views that atheists ultimately get their morals through Christian heritage. That really doesn't explain how people living in Kuwait or Thailand can be moral, unless you go on to say all religions pass on moral teachings. Which is patently false... as he himself said! There is a real evolutionary advantage for moral actions. So why does he go and bring Christian heritage in at the end?23. Comment #104974 by epeeist on December 30, 2007 at 8:21 am
I very much like and respect Lord Harries, but I disagree with his views that atheists ultimately get their morals through Christian heritage. That really doesn't explain how people living in Kuwait or Thailand can be moral, unless you go on to say all religions pass on moral teachings. Which is patently false.
24. Comment #104976 by prettygoodformonkeys on December 30, 2007 at 8:35 am
For a Christian, this is above all shown in the willingness of God to enter the flux of history, to redeem it from withinSo our morality comes from magic redemption. As bcwc outlines above (9. Comment #104935), animals also have morality. Jesus must have died for the animals as well! Except we were being redeemed from our animal nature, and the animals are still animals. They must have been very, very bad. Especially mosquitoes.
25. Comment #104978 by Mokusatsu on December 30, 2007 at 8:59 am
"grandparents for whom morality and religion were fundamentally bound up"26. Comment #104981 by rafael184 on December 30, 2007 at 9:14 am
THE ATHEIST MENTAL DISORDER27. Comment #104982 by phil rimmer on December 30, 2007 at 9:19 am
Well ... almost. Those lions were mammals too
28. Comment #104984 by briancoughlanworldcitizen on December 30, 2007 at 9:21 am
29. Comment #104985 by NormanDoering on December 30, 2007 at 9:22 am
... I disagree with his views that atheists ultimately get their morals through Christian heritage.
30. Comment #104986 by prettygoodformonkeys on December 30, 2007 at 9:26 am
31. Comment #104988 by PrimeNumbers on December 30, 2007 at 9:28 am
32. Comment #104989 by phil rimmer on December 30, 2007 at 9:28 am
33. Comment #104990 by AllanW on December 30, 2007 at 9:29 am
34. Comment #104992 by Double Bass Atheist on December 30, 2007 at 9:40 am
35. Comment #104994 by jusdefacts on December 30, 2007 at 9:50 am
Yeah, definitely, echoing AllanW. Inarticulate, rambling jesusterrorist. Sad git, too.36. Comment #104998 by Matt7895 on December 30, 2007 at 9:54 am
Can an admin please delete that long post by rafael184? There's a big difference between contributing to the discussion by giving an opposing view, and spamming the discussion by posting creationist bullshit. 37. Comment #104999 by the great teapot on December 30, 2007 at 9:54 am
Not normally one to police anything, originating from Middlesbrough, I have also flagged 26 as spam.38. Comment #105000 by NormanDoering on December 30, 2007 at 10:02 am
I'd like to know how Bishop Harries deals with this example of Christian morality:39. Comment #105001 by Dr Benway on December 30, 2007 at 10:04 am
spambot: A policeman may personally witness an event, whereas a prosecutor obtains his information only indirectly.The prosecutor may call the policeman to testify, but he cannot convey the policeman's testimony himself.
40. Comment #105003 by Roger Stanyard on December 30, 2007 at 10:14 am
The huge Rafael186 post is just a cross between spam and trolling. What the author appears to have done is cut and past together a hold load of drivel from different sources.41. Comment #105005 by AllanW on December 30, 2007 at 10:19 am
42. Comment #105006 by Corylus on December 30, 2007 at 10:20 am
43. Comment #105010 by Logicel on December 30, 2007 at 10:30 am
44. Comment #105011 by ranman55 on December 30, 2007 at 10:30 am
Bishop Harries may concede that one can be moral45. Comment #105013 by Don_Quix on December 30, 2007 at 10:30 am
46. Comment #105017 by Dinah on December 30, 2007 at 10:47 am
'It is possible to be moral without God' – to which the obvious reply is, 'It is more than possible to be immoral with God.'47. Comment #105018 by oriole on December 30, 2007 at 10:48 am
While I generally share the criticisms made of the Bishop's arguments by my fellow atheists, I think it's important to point out that Bishop Harries is, to my knowledge, the first member of his "team" to construct an honest criticism of Dawkins's book. When you look at the sorry hodgepode of lies, misrepresentations, ad hominem attacks, irrelevant arguments, etc,. launched against Dawkins in the name of Christ, I think you have to regard the Bishop's mannerly, fair critique as a breath of fresh air.48. Comment #105026 by BicycleRepairMan on December 30, 2007 at 11:33 am
ake an analogy: someone hears a great piece of music and responds to it in itself. But someone else knows that the piece is part of a symphony and can be even more appreciated when heard as part of the whole in which it has a crucial place. As human beings we can recognise and respond to particular moral insights. But a religious believer claims to understand these as part of a much larger whole in which they have a vital place
49. Comment #105027 by NormanDoering on December 30, 2007 at 11:44 am
rafael184 just won my award for most pathetic excuse for a human brain:50. Comment #105029 by NormanDoering on December 30, 2007 at 12:01 pm
AllanW wrote:See here for a Christian response to it.
http://www.str.org/site/News2?pa...Article& id=5236
The short of the long of it is that God would never command an evil act since it isn't in His character.
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1. Comment #104925 by the great teapot on December 30, 2007 at 3:24 am
Dostoyevsky said if god doesn't exist everything is permitted and satre agrees.Well 2 famous people have said it, so it must be true.
I would also like to ask Mr Ruse what exactly about stating that God does not exist and expecting to see some evidence for the claims of religion, just as we would for any other tall story, he finds embarrasing.
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