Wednesday, January 16, 2008 | Reason : Political | print version

Huckabee Wants A 'Faith-based' Constitution

Crooks and Liars

Reposted from:
http://www.crooksandliars.com/2008/01/15/huckabee-wants-a-faith-based-constitution/
and
http://www.perrspectives.com/blog/archives/000895.htm

Click here to play video

(I)n Warren, Michigan on Monday, Huckabee declared his personal crusade to amend the Constitution by copying and pasting from the Bible:

"I have opponents in this race who do not want to change the Constitution. But I believe it's a lot easier to change the Constitution than it would be to change the word of the living God. And thats what we need to do is amend the Constitution so it's in God's standards rather than trying to change God's standards so it lines up with some contemporary view of how we treat each other and how we treat the family."

In case there was any remaining doubt, that astounding statement eviscerated Huckabee's pretense of upholding the separation of church and state. In December, Governor Huckabee offered this charade on Meet the Press, words which obviously are no longer operative:

"The key issue of real faith is that it never can be forced on someone. And never would I want to use the government institutions to impose mine or anybody else's faith or to restrict."

As it turns out, using the institutions of government to impose his faith is exactly what Mike Huckabee has in mind. Quick to denounce sharia law and "Islamofascism," Huckabee seems quite eager to embrace a Christian version of God's law here at home.

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1. Comment #111883 by Darwin's badger on January 16, 2008 at 12:24 am

Depressingly predictable, I'm sad to say. :(

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2. Comment #111884 by MuNky82 on January 16, 2008 at 12:26 am

WTF!

EDIT: I agree with some of the comments on the original websites - I hope this fascist would be the Republican nominee, so that horrible party would fail dismally. At least the guy speaks what he thinks...

Other Comments by MuNky82

3. Comment #111885 by Szkeptik on January 16, 2008 at 12:30 am

Does he want an ammendment about stoning disobidient children? If he gets elected and starts the ammending, I will keep demanding the childrenstoning taken up too.

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4. Comment #111886 by octopus on January 16, 2008 at 12:41 am

I am a little bit concerned that when it comes to "God's standards" we might end up playing that old game "that is not my God you are talking about".

Other Comments by octopus

5. Comment #111888 by toomanytribbles on January 16, 2008 at 12:51 am

how can this person be even in the position to be a serious nominee for the presidency?

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6. Comment #111889 by Ben Jennings on January 16, 2008 at 12:56 am

Hmm no wonder Hitch referred to him as a "smirking hick".

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7. Comment #111893 by madame_zora on January 16, 2008 at 1:07 am

I really hope we're all paying attention. While the sober among us would like to laugh him off, I wonder what percentage of America he speaks to? I'm afraid we might be about to discover an ugly truth.

Other Comments by madame_zora

8. Comment #111896 by BAEOZ on January 16, 2008 at 1:10 am

To quote Roger Water's from Pink Floyds masterful album; The wall:

Tear down the wall! Tear down the wall!

NOT!

Cretinous fool!

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9. Comment #111898 by alfonso on January 16, 2008 at 1:11 am

No no, you don't understand, that god is the *REAL* one.

Is the whole of US so deluded or are there still places that can be considered havens against these tides of irrationality?

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10. Comment #111901 by Quetzalcoatl on January 16, 2008 at 1:13 am

How is anyone surprised by this? The optimistic side of me hopes that the crap he's just spouted will galvanise people against him, but my cynical side thinks otherwise. How many people in America will right now be applauding Huckabee for having the courage of his convictions?

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11. Comment #111902 by gcdavis on January 16, 2008 at 1:13 am

Is it really conceivable that America could elect a moron like Huckabee, can they not see what a disaster Bush's two terms have been to America's reputation? Neither men have any understanding of immense responsibility that the office of president involves, they behave (or will behave) like bulls in the china shop thrashing around breaking stuff that has taken centuries to develop, they surround themselves with sycophants and retards rather than subjecting their ideas and policies to objective scrutiny.

When I see Bush on TV I have pinch myself that this man really is the President of the United States of America, can your politics really have sunk this far?

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12. Comment #111907 by black wolf on January 16, 2008 at 1:31 am

...they behave (or will behave) like bulls in the china shop...

Isn't it funny that in Germany the same proverb states 'like elephants in the china shop'?

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13. Comment #111908 by irate_atheist on January 16, 2008 at 1:32 am

Fucktard.

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14. Comment #111910 by YssiBoo on January 16, 2008 at 1:58 am

To all american atheists: If your country becomes a theocracy (theocrazy?) you are welcome to seek political refuge in my country. We need more good atheists in Norway as well.

Other Comments by YssiBoo

15. Comment #111911 by epeeist on January 16, 2008 at 1:59 am

Michael Chertoff was on R4 this morning saying that Europe could be the source of the biggest threat to US security. He wants more checks on people traveling to the States (the implication was that they want European money, but would prefer not to have the people).

Given this and the possible election of a theocrat does any one actually want to travel to the States. The Mexicans and the Canadians might be advised to consider building big walls to stop immigration.

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16. Comment #111912 by Peacebeuponme on January 16, 2008 at 1:59 am

Just make sure you don't vote the dickhead in.

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17. Comment #111913 by YssiBoo on January 16, 2008 at 2:04 am

Off topic:

gcdavis: your avatar needs a language clean-up. It says Thor and Woden, while the Norse gods really are called Thor and Odin.

Fun fact: Wednesday is named after Odin and means Odin's day, while Thursday is Thor's day.

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18. Comment #111914 by Peacebeuponme on January 16, 2008 at 2:05 am

And thats what we need to do is amend the Constitution so it's in God's standards

...and how do you propose to work out what those standards are, Mike?

Maybe the new US constitution will include details of just how long a woman remains unclean after childbirth, or menstruation, along with the right number of chickens to sacrifice in various circumstances.

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19. Comment #111915 by Logicel on January 16, 2008 at 2:18 am

...is amend the Constitution so it's in God's standards rather than trying to change God's standards so it lines up with some contemporary view of how we treat each other and how we treat the family.
_______

Just as Christians are sensitive to criticism of religion in general and of their's in particular, they are equally sensitive to 'criticism' (which apparently is the actual existence of freely chosen lifestyles other than that of the traditional family) of the family. If their God and His notion that the family is important and necessary for good Christian living, then what is the problem? Its good points will be able to allow the family to continue because it is a system that works, despite the fact that others might not embrace that lifestyle. Why are other lifestyles anti-family?

Their inability to allow their lifestyle to flourish alongside other lifestyles shows their dogmatic rigidity. No one is asking them to give up their family-based lifestyle. Nor should they demand others to give up their lifestyle. Creepy Christians are a bunch of meddling paranoids!

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20. Comment #111916 by DamnDirtyApe on January 16, 2008 at 2:20 am

Just as long as the new constitution meets the standard of the Buddah, Allah, Thor, Cthulhu, Xenu...

Man, I can't wait for the 2011 census in the UK...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_England_from_the_2001_United_Kingdom_census#Religion

Given we've probably got at least 15% of the pie, maybe as high as 21% back then, i'm hoping that figure shoots up dramatically. I'm sure there might be confusion with new religions like 'pastafarian' or 'CofFSM' being put down as 'other' though. We might need to keep it simple.

Maybe that's something we need to organise for. Have a big campaign to promote no religion for the next uk census. I'd hope for nearly 30% as 'no religion'. Let's stand up and be counted to make sure that this type of nonsense doesn't infect politics in the uk. We're the largest minority and lets make it count.

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21. Comment #111917 by Dinah on January 16, 2008 at 2:21 am

People who want 'God' to be brought into their Constitution or politics evidently know nothing about history. God was inseparable from politics in Europe for centuries, resulting in wars, persecution, repression of women and the suppression of scientific ideas to name but a few. Not content with persecuting people of other faiths, Christians then turned on each other – Catholic against Protestant, Protestant against Catholic, Catholics and Protestants against Puritans and other dissenters. And this is the point – which version of God would be the accepted one in this new theocracy? You can bet your life it wouldn't be long before Christians pursuing the 'wrong' kind of Christianity would soon find themselves on the wrong side of the law along with the atheists, Jews, Muslims, et al.

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22. Comment #111919 by PJG on January 16, 2008 at 2:30 am

I think we (the UK) should do a deal with the US.

We'll take all your not-worthy-of-being-called-American-citizen atheists and you can have all our deluded Bible/Koran-bashers. In this way, everyone could be happy and Britain would have some lovely buildings to convert into homes!

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23. Comment #111920 by Galactor on January 16, 2008 at 2:34 am

Can someone familiar with American politics please throw a blanket of comfort over me and assure me that the actual amendment of the constitution along the lines that Huckleberry advocates would be a very, very hard thing to do indeed?

The one thing I fear about the current uprise and upsurge of atheist lobbying is the backlash it will effect by galvanizing the religious moderate community to side with this kind of nutcake. If someone like Huckabee gets into office, it'll be disasterous.

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24. Comment #111922 by Fanusi Khiyal on January 16, 2008 at 2:46 am

Just shoot me now

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25. Comment #111923 by Philip1978 on January 16, 2008 at 2:51 am

But I believe it's a lot easier to change the Constitution than it would be to change the word of the living God.

Yes Mr Huckabee, that would explain how Unicorns ended up in the King James Bible or that the divinity of Jesus was VOTED on BY MEN in 325 in Nicaea. Just a couple of examples, ask if you need more!

Idiot!

Philip

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26. Comment #111924 by epeeist on January 16, 2008 at 2:52 am

Comment #111922 by Fanusi Khiyal

Just shoot me now

So the Dominionists aren't a problem are they Fanusi?

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27. Comment #111927 by Nighttripper on January 16, 2008 at 3:06 am

Galactor wrote:
The one thing I fear about the current uprise and upsurge of atheist lobbying is the backlash it will effect by galvanizing the religious moderate community to side with this kind of nutcake.

That was exactly what I was thinking. Just as republican are almost invariably chosen whenever the US is at war, or close to war. Religious people in the US might feel so cornered by the new surge of Atheism that they would do something stupid like vote a man like this for president *Shiver*. I think that any candidate who announces that he is going to stop the advance of atheism can trust on getting a huge block of religious voters, defending themselves like a cornered cat.

This of course is not any reason to soften up or back down but it's a scary thought...

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28. Comment #111928 by jaytee_555 on January 16, 2008 at 3:06 am

It looks to me as if Huckabee realises he has no chance of winning anything; so before he returns to obscurity, he is trying to set himself up with a nice little sinecure by identifying and ingratiating himself with the knuckle-draggers who support the Falwalls and Robertsons of this world.

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29. Comment #111931 by PJG on January 16, 2008 at 3:14 am

It looks to me as if Huckabee realises he has no chance of winning anything; so before he returns to obscurity, he is trying to set himself up with a nice little sinecure by identifying and ingratiating himself with the knuckle-draggers who support the Falwalls and Robertsons of this world

The knuckle-draggers who support the Falwalls and Robertsons of this world have votes ... and there are a lot of them.

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30. Comment #111933 by gtcc on January 16, 2008 at 3:22 am

It appears that Huckabee probably will not get the nomination - BUT!!! Latter day saint Mitt Romney is a mormon - Is not that worse??? At least Huckabee is kind of honest about being a bible thumper.

It seems absurd arguing about which of the clowns will become president, one is as bad as the other.

If Hillary wins, we will have Deepak Chopra running the world, now that is a scary thought!

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31. Comment #111943 by Styrer- on January 16, 2008 at 3:40 am

I actually think this is great.

He's finally, unequivocally spelled out the deal we all knew anyway was his and his kind's real agenda. He's just handed us a ticket permitting us to denounce his terrifying ambitions even more robustly and assertively. Hope the media coverage is huge on this one.

Hopefully even the religious 'mods' will be shocked by this - if there's anything I've noticed Americans holding as dearly as their 'faith', it's their beloved Constitution (and rightly so).

Nice one.

Best,
Styrer

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32. Comment #111946 by Fanusi Khiyal on January 16, 2008 at 3:42 am

So the Dominionists aren't a problem are they Fanusi?

Oh, touche, epeeist touche! A veritable sting!

But that misses the real point, one neatly illustrated by the following two quotes:

Quick to denounce sharia law and "Islamofascism," Huckabee seems quite eager to embrace a Christian version of God's law here at home.

and

I hope this fascist would be the Republican nominee, so that horrible party would fail dismally

Under normal circumstances, Huckabee would be no problem; he'd be beaten (even many Christian conservatives hate his guts) in the election, and that would be the end of it.

But these aren't normal circumstances, and that wouldn't be the end of it. Imagine Huckabee runs against Hillary and looses. Now imagine during her Presidency there is another incident of catastrophic terror (a safe bet, since islamic terrorism is increasing exponentially, and she knows absolutely nothing about the subject). What do you think will happen? The Christian Right will stand up and say "See? We told you so. We've given secularism a shot, and see where it got us."

They'd have to be blind, drooling morons not to play it like that.

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33. Comment #111947 by Roland_F on January 16, 2008 at 3:46 am

14. Comment #111910 by YssiBoo

To all american atheists: If your country becomes a theocracy (theocrazy?) you are welcome to seek political refuge in my country. We need more good atheists in Norway as well.

I already joked with a Norwegian colleague last year about Americans coming to Norway:
- they have lot's of Oil
- the US will claim Norway is secretly developing weapons of mass destruction
- Halliburton can maintain the Oil drilling platforms anyway much better

And now additional a very important topic - Norway is an secular & atheist country !

So the US guys showing up in Norway might not be well educated atheists scientists you hope for, but guys in olive green uniforms…

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34. Comment #111948 by notsobad on January 16, 2008 at 3:46 am

Meanwhile in Europe:

Pope pulls out of visit to Rome university after outrage at his views on Galileo and science

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35. Comment #111951 by Peacebeuponme on January 16, 2008 at 4:02 am

Notsobad - great to see that happening in Rome of all places.

Also in the UK the christians lost in their attempt to amend the stem-cell reasearch bill.

So there is some good news out there.

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36. Comment #111952 by scooternyc on January 16, 2008 at 4:02 am

Interestingly though, this guy is quite liberal on a great deal of other issues

MikeHuckabee

It's hilarious to watch this trainwreck.

I hope he keeps talking so everyone can get past the hype and see who he is.

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37. Comment #111955 by bluebird on January 16, 2008 at 4:19 am

notsobad, thanks for that link; now we're updated on that story.

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38. Comment #111959 by Slyer on January 16, 2008 at 4:45 am

Hmmm yes lets look at our current leading theocracies, oh yes brilliant places to live.
Iran and Saudi Arabia, lots of peace and prosperity over there.
The choice is obvious...

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39. Comment #111965 by Azven on January 16, 2008 at 5:11 am

Exactly what would Huck change the wording of the Constitution to? It's one thing to talk of 'copying and pasting' from the Bible and of "amend[ing] the Constitution so it's in God's standards", but which standards? What parts of the Bible? Is there any block of text in the Bible as good as the Constitution for the same purpose as the Constitution? (No!) So what would be the point?

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40. Comment #111968 by AllanW on January 16, 2008 at 5:24 am

Re; comment #111965 Azven

"Which standards?" Whichever the reigning politicians decided mate.

"What would be the point?" To engineer legislation and the enforcement of that legislation to amend/modify behaviour.

The thought-processes (such as they exist in this mind-set) do not concern themselves with empathy, compassion, acceptance, toleration, understanding, exploration, compromise or diversity. It is a fundamentalist attitude; I KNOW the right and only acceptable way to live your life. And now I have the power to enforce your acceptance of it at pain of your death.

Please do not post that this is a little extreme as an extrapolation of the fundamentalist mind-set; just look at all examples in actuality that bear it out.

Other Comments by AllanW

41. Comment #111970 by Jayday on January 16, 2008 at 5:39 am

Although Huckabee is indeed disturbing, the Commondreams website posted an article about the USA House Resolution (888), which is a move to create an American History of Religion Week that is to be taught in public schools. The article was posted on
1-15-08. "Congress Aims to Dumb Down History, Pushes Fiction of Christian Nation in Public Schools." It is possible that this resolution will be voted on as soon as this week. If you are an American who disagrees with this action, it would be wise to contact your representative as soon as possible to register your view.

Jayday

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42. Comment #111974 by Jayvee on January 16, 2008 at 6:07 am

If this was going on in another country where a potential president was going to introduce Sharia or some other religious law - wouldn't we (the US) be sitting on their door step threatening them with a huge bomb?

I love the double standards - and people wonder why the rest of the world hates us!

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43. Comment #111975 by irate_atheist on January 16, 2008 at 6:07 am

39. Comment #111963 by derekwilliams28 -

He's talking out of both sides of his mouth...

Even more impressively, he occasionally talks audibly whilst seated. Anatomically, how he does it, I just don't know.

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44. Comment #111976 by Epinephrine on January 16, 2008 at 6:13 am

epeeist -

The Mexicans and the Canadians might be advised to consider building big walls to stop immigration.

I don't know, I think we want to let them in - fleeing atheists welcome. *Then* we build the walls.

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45. Comment #111978 by konquererz on January 16, 2008 at 6:15 am

Hucklberry needs to speak more. The longer he hangs around, the crazier he sounds. Better to let him keep talking and people can see what he is really like. Like I pointed out to my parents (evangelicals), he thinks speaking in tongues is blasphemy, do you really want a person who thinks he can change the constitution to match his own interpretation of gods laws making laws that can effect your religion? Namely when he believes part of what you do is blasphemy? Blasphemy laws any one? Didn't think so.

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46. Comment #111979 by Gymnopedie on January 16, 2008 at 6:17 am

I think we all knew he thought like this, anyway. It's scary to think we have 2 nuts on the Supreme Court who have made the same statements.

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47. Comment #111988 by annabanana on January 16, 2008 at 6:42 am

I don't think Romney is worse than Huckabee, whoever said that...He seemed to be fairly secular when he was governor of Mass. He seems to be more paying lipservice to his religion than Huckabee is. Does the GRE count in the U.K. for applying to grad school? Does anyone know? Looks like I'll be moving...

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48. Comment #111990 by Strigoia on January 16, 2008 at 6:45 am

Galactor asked: "Can someone familiar with American politics please throw a blanket of comfort over me and assure me that the actual amendment of the constitution along the lines that Huckleberry advocates would be a very, very hard thing to do indeed?"

Well, American politicians have passed some pretty stupid laws in the past, but constitutional amendments are not exactly easy to push through. The process is briefly outlined here.

If you scroll down a bit, you'll see that in the entire history of the USA, only 27 amendments have been made to the constitution. Plenty have been proposed, but most have stalled or been defeated. So I'd say that even if Huckabee somehow manages to win the general election, this is not really something we have to be afraid of. What he might do with his veto power and ability to appoint judges, now, that's something I'd worry about....

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49. Comment #111995 by annabanana on January 16, 2008 at 7:00 am

Right on Skepticon. He was pro-choice up until he decided to run for president. He also instituted the first "universal" health care plan in Mass. (which by the way is exceeding it's budget already). I think Romney's just pandering while Huckabee is genuine (in his religious bs at least).

Other Comments by annabanana

50. Comment #111998 by al-rawandi on January 16, 2008 at 7:19 am