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Monday, March 31, 2008 | Reason : Political | print version Print | Comments

Document Vote on freedom of expression marks the end of Universal Human Rights

by International Humanist and Ethical Union

Thanks to Jonathan Dore for the link.

Reposted from:
http://www.iheu.org/node/3123

For the past eleven years the organisation of the Islamic Conference (OIC), representing the 57 Islamic States, has been tightening its grip on the throat of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. Yesterday, 28 March 2008, they finally killed it.

With the support of their allies including China, Russia and Cuba (none well-known for their defence of human rights) the Islamic States succeeded in forcing through an amendment to a resolution on Freedom of Expression that has turned the entire concept on its head. The UN Special Rapporteur on Freedom of Expression will now be required to report on the "abuse" of this most cherished freedom by anyone who, for example, dares speak out against Sharia laws that require women to be stoned to death for adultery or young men to be hanged for being gay, or against the marriage of girls as young as nine, as in Iran.

Former UN Secretary General Kofi Annan saw the writing on the wall three years ago when he spoke of the old Commission on Human Rights having "become too selective and too political in its work". Piecemeal reform would not be enough. The old system needed to be swept away and replaced by something better. The Human Rights Council was supposed to be that new start, a Council whose members genuinely supported, and were prepared to defend, the principles of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

Yet since its inception in June 2006, the Human Rights Council has failed to condemn the most egregious examples of human rights abuse in the Sudan, Byelorussia, Iran, Saudi Arabia, China and elsewhere, whilst repeatedly condemning Israel and Israel alone.

Three years later Annan's dream lies shattered, and the Human Rights Council stands exposed as incapable of fulfilling its central role: the promotion and protection of human rights. The Council died yesterday in Geneva, and with it the Universal Declaration of Human Rights whose 60th anniversary we were actually celebrating this year.

There has been a seismic shift in the balance of power in the UN system. For over a decade the Islamic States have been flexing their muscles. Yesterday they struck. There can no longer be any pretence that the Human Rights Council can defend human rights. The moral leadership of the UN system has moved from the States who created the UN in the aftermath of the Second World War, committed to the concepts of equality, individual freedom and the rule of law, to the Islamic States, whose allegiance is to a narrow, medieval worldview defined exclusively in terms of man's duties towards Allah, and to their fellow-travellers, the States who see their future economic and political interests as being best served by their alliances with the Islamic States.

Yesterday's attack by the Islamists, led by Pakistan, had the subtlety of a thin-bladed knife slipped silently under the ribs of the Human Rights Council. At first reading the amendment to the resolution to renew the mandate of the Special Rapporteur on Freedom of Expression might seem reasonable. It requires the Special Rapporteur:

"To report on instances in which the abuse of the right of freedom of expression constitutes an act of racial or religious discrimination …"

For Canada, who had fought long and hard as main sponsor of this resolution to renew the mandate of the Special Rapporteur, this was too much. The internationally agreed limits to Freedom of Expression are detailed in article 19 of the legally binding International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights and are already referred to in the preamble to the resolution. If abuse of freedom of expression infringed anyone's freedom of religion, for example, it would fall within the scope of the Special Rapporteur on Freedom of Religion. To add it here was unnecessary duplication, and "Requesting the Special Rapporteur to report on abuses of [this right] would turn the mandate on its head. Instead of promoting freedom of expression the Special Rapporteur would be policing its exercise … If this amendment is adopted, Canada will withdraw its sponsorship from the main resolution."

Canada's position was echoed by several delegations including India, who objected to the change of focus from protecting to limiting freedom of expression. The European Union, the United Kingdom (speaking for Australia and the United States), India, Brazil, Bolivia, Guatemala and Switzerland all withdrew their sponsorship of the main resolution when the amendment was passed. In total, more than 20 of the original 53 co-sponsors of the resolution withdrew their support.

On the vote, the amendment was adopted by 27 votes to 15 against, with three abstentions.
The Sri Lankan delegate explained clearly his reasons for supporting the amendment:
".. if we regulate certain things 'minimally' we may be able to prevent them from being enacted violently on the streets of our towns and cities."

In other words: Don't exercise your right to freedom of expression because your opponents may become violent. For the first time in the 60 year history of UN Human Rights bodies, a fundamental human right has been limited simply because of the possible violent reaction by the enemies of human rights.

The violence we have seen played out in reaction to the Danish cartoons is thus excused by the Council – it was the cartoonists whose freedom of expression needed to be regulated. And Theo van Gogh can be deemed responsible for his own death.

Freedom of expression is that right which – uniquely – enables us to expose, communicate and condemn abuse of all our other rights. Without freedom of expression and freedom of the press we give the green light to tyranny and make it impossible to expose corruption, incompetence, injustice and oppression.

But however important freedom of expression may be for us who live in the West, its overwhelming importance for those who live under the tyranny of Islamic law was highlighted by a courageous group of 21 NGOs from the Islamic States who issued a statement yesterday appealing to delegations to oppose the amendment. See http://www.article19.org/pdfs/press/petition-hrc.pdf

Incredibly, following the vote on the amendment, the Council descended even further into chaos. At the very last moment, Cuba introduced an oral amendment – clearly against the rules of procedure. When Canada objected they were overruled by the President. When Slovenia – on behalf of the European Union – tried to intervene on a point of order and ask for a ten-minute adjournment, they were ignored. When they tried to protest in another point of order their right to do so was challenged by Egypt, and the Egyptian objection was upheld.

The main resolution was then put to the vote and was adopted by 32 votes in favour, none against, with 15 abstentions.

The NGO community now needs to think carefully about what purpose can any longer be served by continuing our engagement with the Human Rights Council, and by fighting for values that are no longer accepted within the UN system. I have personally been involved with the Human Rights Commission and Council for the past five years and can see little benefit in continuing. Our well-argued position papers are ignored, our speeches are interrupted with repeated and irrelevant points of order, and we are not even supported in our efforts by the western delegations who, shockingly, did not even vote against today's travesty, but abstained.

The Universal Declaration of Human Rights died yesterday. Who knows when, or if, it can ever be revived.

I used to wonder what States who felt it necessary to kill people because they change their religion thought they were doing in the Human Rights Council. Now I know.

The wafer-thin sham of an international consensus on the promotion and protection of human rights has finally been exposed for what it was – a sham. The fragmentation of human rights now appears inevitable. The proposed Islamic Charter on Human Rights (read "Duties towards Allah") will certainly go ahead, as will the creation of a parallel Islamic Council on Human Rights. But the OIC will nevertheless continue to attend and dominate the UN Human Rights Council, thereby ensuring its continuing emasculation and descent into total irrelevance.

Just five months before he and more than 20 of his colleagues were killed by a terrorist bomb in Baghdad, the then High Commissioner for Human Rights, Sergio Vieira de Mello, wrote:

"Membership of the Commission on Human Rights must carry responsibilities. I therefore wonder whether the time has not come for the Commission itself to develop a code of guidelines for access to membership of the Commission and a code of conduct for members while they serve on the Commission. After all the Commission on Human Rights has a duty to humanity and the members of the Commission must themselves set the example of adherence to the international human rights norms – in practice as well as in law…"

States who are genuinely concerned with human rights should immediately withdraw from the Council until such time as all member states as well as those offering themselves for election agree to honour their pledges, and undertake to expel any member state which, having been put on notice regarding its human rights record, fails to put its house in order within a reasonable timescale. Failing this, what better tribute to Sergio de Mello could there be than to create an alternative organisation – Kofi Annan's organisation of the willing - whose members agree to adopt Sergio de Mello's guidelines and code of conduct – and are actually held to account.

Roy W Brown
Geneva, 29 March 2008

Comments 1 - 50 of 237 |

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1. Comment #152872 by mikejswalker on March 31, 2008 at 4:57 pm

Human rights is outside the remit of the above mentioned regimes.
Human rights gets in the way of profits. Ask any "great leader".

Other Comments by mikejswalker

2. Comment #152873 by marcomerlin on March 31, 2008 at 4:57 pm

 avatarIslamists, China, Russia, Cuba? That does not surprise me. What does puts me down is the tolerance and silence from the democratic countries. We live in an age where comercial interests are above civil and human rights. Way to go China, keep selling us cheap stuff and we won`t bother you because of your slavery workforce. And so on. Shame on us...

Other Comments by marcomerlin

3. Comment #152883 by TheSwede on March 31, 2008 at 5:07 pm

For the first time in my life I'm afraid of an international conflict.

Should I have to proclaim to my friends, family, countrymen and fellow citizens of this earth that I no longer adhere to Human Rights? Will those words pass through my lips..?

Should that day come, it would be a sad day indeed.

Other Comments by TheSwede

4. Comment #152901 by Frankus1122 on March 31, 2008 at 5:25 pm

 avatarThis is extremely troubling. I am shocked, stunned.

For the first time in my life I'm afraid of an international conflict.


I am afraid of an international religious war. If once a thing like this starts how does it end?

Other Comments by Frankus1122

5. Comment #152907 by marting on March 31, 2008 at 5:30 pm

Please, please tell me this is not real.

Other Comments by marting

6. Comment #152912 by Pattern Seeker on March 31, 2008 at 5:41 pm

 avatarI'm sure all of this is much more complicated than it looks, but the sad thing is, as an artist myself, freedom of expression is my livelihood. Without my ability to speak truth to power and use humor to expose lies, I have nothing.

I posted in the forum section on 'Faith and Religion' a public access program I just finished about religion. Go and watch and and tell me whether or not my 'freedom of expression' will place my life in peril. Some of it is quite deliberately provocative. I haven't received any threats yet, but it has only been up for a couple of days. I don't doubt the possibility.

Check it out here:

http://youtube.com/user/zackglickman

Other Comments by Pattern Seeker

7. Comment #152913 by Dr Benway on March 31, 2008 at 5:41 pm

 avatar
In other words: Don't exercise your right to freedom of expression because your opponents may become violent. For the first time in the 60 year history of UN Human Rights bodies, a fundamental human right has been limited simply because of the possible violent reaction by the enemies of human rights.
The hate speech laws have always made me nervous. Said this 10 minutes ago on another thread. My fears have been realized above.

We never should have classified any speech as illegal merely for provoking "hate." Hate is at times necessary.

We've had laws against overt speech expressing intent to harm, or encouraging violence against others. We've had laws against covert conspiracy to harm others. By going beyond that, by criminalizing talk that provokes feelings of hatred, we set a precedent we can't now revoke without enormous difficulty.

Other Comments by Dr Benway

8. Comment #152914 by Enlightenme.. on March 31, 2008 at 5:42 pm

 avatarWell, Darfur, Rwanda, Somalia, Iraq, Kosovo, the UN has been as bust as the League of Nations for some time now.

I don't know why it entertained the OIC being in anyway - see the Cairo declaration:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cairo_Declaration_on_Human_Rights_in_Islam

"The Cairo Declaration of Human Rights in Islam (CDHRI) is a declaration of the member states of the Organisation of the Islamic Conference, which provides an overview on the Islamic perspective on human rights, and affirms Islamic Shari'ah as its sole source."

"The CDHRI gives men and women the "right to marriage" regardless of their race, colour or nationality, (but not religion). In addition women are given "equal human dignity", "own rights to enjoy", "duties to perform", "own civil entity", "financial independence", and the "right to retain her name and lineage", though not equal rights in general."

"The Declaration prohibits to force anybody "to change his religion to another religion or to atheism", but it gives the individual no freedom to change his religion or belief"

"The Declaration grants individuals the right to express their opinion freely. It encourages them to propagate that which is right and good. However, it forbids the misuse of this right in order to "violate sanctities and the dignity of Prophets" "

Theres always a however isn't there - it reminds me of a forum exchange I had with a guy once who said:

"...Islam says that men and women are equal, but men are "a degree above"...
...Islam believes in equality for men and women, but in differing roles..."

I advised him to read Animal Farm.

Other Comments by Enlightenme..

9. Comment #152915 by Gymnopedie on March 31, 2008 at 5:42 pm

The impression from the article is that Western nations don't seem too bothered by this whole fiasco. Why am I not surprised? We might insult someone if we oppose their right to stone adulterers!

Other Comments by Gymnopedie

10. Comment #152916 by ThoughtsonCommonToad on March 31, 2008 at 5:43 pm

western delegations who, shockingly, did not even vote against today's travesty, but abstained.


Other Comments by ThoughtsonCommonToad

11. Comment #152924 by Roland_F on March 31, 2008 at 5:55 pm

This was already clear in 2006 when the "new human rights body" of the UN was formed and all the totalitarian states became members. The outnumbered "West" was just participating in the hope they can still uphold some basic human rights issue.
But I doubt that the democracies who abstained from a 'No' vote will just quit this sham body and open an alternative Human Right organization.
As Oil junkie, you can't upset the Arab League and the "West" depends on China for cheap (slave)labor produced inferior scrap products to fill our supermarket stores.

Other Comments by Roland_F

12. Comment #152926 by ivo on March 31, 2008 at 5:58 pm

I'm deeply shocked. The declaration of human rights is one of the highlights of human social and ethical achievements. Something that makes me proud of belonging to this species. And now it's being actively destroyed, among general indifference!? I can't believe it, is this true?

This is a very sad day for me.

Other Comments by ivo

13. Comment #152928 by Roland_F on March 31, 2008 at 6:03 pm

We are lucky that this UN "human rights" body with this majority has not declared Shariah Law as global foundation of human rights.
Which the "West" would not have objected either.

Other Comments by Roland_F

14. Comment #152930 by Lucas on March 31, 2008 at 6:11 pm

 avatarMight I suggest a massive mailing campaign to all those OIC member nations? Maybe a little cartoon or something? Seriously, I kind of feel like provoking them. What's the worst that could happen? They'd get all mad and kill some folks, then get stomped out of existence? Hey, no broken eggs, no omelette.

Chris Barnes wrote a song once that said:

I'm not afraid to speak my own mind
I don't use the first amendment to hide behind
I'm guaranteed that freedom, I'm born with that right
And for that I'm ready to fight

I like that one. I need no law to give me any right to free speech. Yes, I understand that WE all kind of need some document to sign and agree upon, but saying whatever you want is not a right or privilege or freedom to be given or taken by anyone. It is to be exercised and defended on your own. I will say or draw or film anything I damn well please. I have no fear of reprisal. Bring it.

Other Comments by Lucas

15. Comment #152931 by Dr Benway on March 31, 2008 at 6:16 pm

 avatarI'm waiting to hear from Steve, Stryer, and Phil Rimmer, as they were defending the hate speech laws on another thread.

Other Comments by Dr Benway

16. Comment #152933 by al-rawandi on March 31, 2008 at 6:19 pm

 avatarDr. Brenway,




Shal I run and hide if they are on the way?

Other Comments by al-rawandi

18. Comment #152936 by Bonzai on March 31, 2008 at 6:22 pm

So does it mean TGD would be banned by the UN?

This is sickening. Fuck Islam.

Other Comments by Bonzai

19. Comment #152939 by Frankus1122 on March 31, 2008 at 6:26 pm

 avatarWas George W. Bush right when he said:
"They hate our freedoms -- our freedom of religion, our freedom of speech, our freedom to vote and assemble and disagree with each other."?


The thing that bothers me most about this is you cannot argue against bad stupid ideas if they are bad stupid religious ideas.
Because that would be hate.

Well, yes. I hate your stupid religious idea that I should be put to death for saying your religion is stupid.

Other Comments by Frankus1122

20. Comment #152942 by Lucas on March 31, 2008 at 6:32 pm

 avatarSomething I heard once, somewhere: Never reveal your weaknesses. It's like some boxing maxim or something, like if you are being obvious about defending your left kidney or whatever, your opponent will notice and target that soft spot. I mean, of course the idea is broader and a lot older than boxing, that was just the analogy that came to mind.

So, certain particularly sensitive Muslims (notice the qualifiers everybody?) are really hurt just by words alone. Okay. That's easy. My words are weapons now? Cool, I'll never run out of ammo.

Other Comments by Lucas

21. Comment #152946 by LordLeckie on March 31, 2008 at 6:38 pm

This is disgusting, for once i truly fear our international bodies. I hope that someone with a head on their shoulders comes along and hamstrings this before it gets worse.

Other Comments by LordLeckie

22. Comment #152949 by al-rawandi on March 31, 2008 at 6:43 pm

 avatarLucas,





How can you object, they are curtailing "hate speech"?


They will use democracy to shove Islam down our throat. I again quote Recip Tayyip Erdogan:

"Democracy is a streetcar, once you reach your destination you get off the streetcar."

Other Comments by al-rawandi

23. Comment #152952 by Lucas on March 31, 2008 at 6:57 pm

 avatarNever objected to hate speech, my friend. No way. Hate all you want. Everyone can shit talk all they want, just as long as they don't whine about the consequences. I would never tell a skinhead he couldn't yell the N word in Harlem, but I'd also never tell the boys on the corner they couldn't stomp his face in for it. I'm a steady believer in comeuppance. You should get that, Duffman.

Other Comments by Lucas

24. Comment #152953 by FightingFalcon on March 31, 2008 at 6:58 pm

 avatar
There can no longer be any pretence that the Human Rights Council can defend human rights.


This was the final nail in the coffin for the legitimacy of the UN Human Rights Council?

I would have figured that it would have been genocide in Sudan. Or Mugabe's rule in Zimbabwe. Or Iran murdering homosexuals. Maybe Afghanistan killing journalists who criticize Islamic law. Or Russia flattening entire cities to the ground and blowing up its own apartments. Or the aptly named People's Republic of China murdering Tibetan protesters.

I'll stop there. What a joke, that entire organization.

Other Comments by FightingFalcon

25. Comment #152955 by katsuosgrl on March 31, 2008 at 7:03 pm

after reading this article, i literally couldnt move for a full minute.

This is the way the world ends
This is the way the world ends
This is the way the world ends
Not with a bang but a whimper.
-T.S. Elliot, The Hollow Men

Other Comments by katsuosgrl

26. Comment #152956 by Enlightenme.. on March 31, 2008 at 7:06 pm

 avatarRe; 24

Blimey Al, Erdogan really said that?
He must not know his Ataturk and his Turkish military properly.

The shit is actually hitting the fan right now in Turkey - the judges are trying to ban the A.K. for acting against Secularism.

Other Comments by Enlightenme..

27. Comment #152957 by mmurray on March 31, 2008 at 7:06 pm

 avatarI was trying to find the actual resolution so I could complain to my elected representative. I went to the relevant UN web page

http://www.ohchr.org/EN/Pages/WelcomePage.aspx

and there are a number of comments condemning Wilders film that I haven't read yet. On another link

http://www.unhchr.ch/huricane/huricane.nsf/view01/AADEFF2389520CC0C125741A0071BB93?opendocument

I found this gem of which I particularly like the last sentence


In a resolution on combating defamation of religions, the Council expressed deep concern at attempts to identify Islam with terrorism, violence and human rights violations; invited the Special Rapporteur on racism to report in particular on the serious implications of Islamophobia to the Council at its ninth session; and requested the High Commissioner for Human Rights to submit a study compiling relevant existing legislations and jurisprudence concerning defamation of and contempt for religions to the Council at its ninth session.



I am not sure what they mean by defamation here. Under the english legal system you can be found guilty of defamation even though you are telling the truth about someone. But worse than that is I think `contempt' -- they have a problem with contempt for religion ?? ( I guess they don't actually say they are opposed to contempt for religion but in the context of the whole paragraph I am assuming that is the case.)

Can anyone give me a link to an actual resolution for which Australia voted for or abstained from voting against? Time to remind my elected representative of the old truth (For evil to triumph ..)

Michael

Other Comments by mmurray

28. Comment #152958 by Hobbit on March 31, 2008 at 7:07 pm

 avatarI have not read this in any of the major Australian papers today. Has anyone seen a report on this?

I am about to send a link to the SMH and see if they run it.

All major news outlets should be leading with this and asking our political leaders why our countries abstained! This will ultimately affect them.

Other Comments by Hobbit

29. Comment #152960 by Bonzai on March 31, 2008 at 7:09 pm

How can there be a hate speech law against a belief,--which is an idea, not a person. This is absurd no matter which side you take on hate law.

Other Comments by Bonzai

30. Comment #152963 by Bonzai on March 31, 2008 at 7:12 pm

The UN is a farce. This is a horrible thing for a Canadian to say, but I have to say it.

Other Comments by Bonzai

31. Comment #152965 by mmurray on March 31, 2008 at 7:14 pm

 avatarHobbit:

How do you know that Australia abstained ? I couldn't see that in the article.

Mind you I did notice

the United Kingdom (speaking for Australia and the United States)


Does that mean we were AWOL ?

Do you know what Government department UN stuff comes under ?

I also didn't see it in the paper. You would have thought the Australian would like the chance to attack the UN. Maybe not over religion ?

Michael

Other Comments by mmurray

32. Comment #152967 by ME!0364 on March 31, 2008 at 7:17 pm

 avatarMama Mia!!!

Other Comments by ME!0364

33. Comment #152968 by al-rawandi on March 31, 2008 at 7:18 pm

 avatarEnlighten....



aka Spock.


Erdogan did say that. I understand he had some other comments. He wrote to my friends father when he (Erdogan) was in prison. I don't know the exact contents of the letters, but the recipient was Saudi.

His contempt for democracy is quite scary. Turkey has a chance to move beyond the standard Muslim dystopia, but only if secularism remains.

Other Comments by al-rawandi

34. Comment #152971 by Hobbit on March 31, 2008 at 7:23 pm

 avatar
How do you know that Australia abstained ? I couldn't see that in the article.

Mind you I did notice


Sorry, I may have miss read that.

After reading the article in the Herald Tribune, we may actually have voted against the resoltion.

Still, not much fuss being made about in our news media that I can see.

Other Comments by Hobbit

35. Comment #152975 by FightingFalcon on March 31, 2008 at 7:27 pm

 avatarI'm honestly surprised at the reaction on this site. Do people really have that much faith in the UN? This isn't even remotely a story here in the US; I can't find any headlines on it. I guess we gave up on the UN a long time ago.

Other Comments by FightingFalcon

36. Comment #152977 by mmurray on March 31, 2008 at 7:28 pm

 avatarOK my apology for the length: URL is at the bottom for the whole and related document: I think number 10 is the worst.

Does anyone know where they list who voted for and against or abstained ?

The document starts with a lot of recognizing other reports etc and then the conclusion is that the Human Rights Council:

1. Expresses deep concern at the negative stereotyping of all religions and manifestations of intolerance and discrimination in matters of religion or belief;

2. Also expresses deep concern at attempts to identify Islam with terrorism, violence and human rights violations and emphasizes that equating any religion with terrorism should be rejected and combated by all at all levels;

3. Further expresses deep concern at the intensification of the campaign of defamation of religions and the ethnic and religious profiling of Muslim minorities in the aftermath of the tragic events of 11 September 2001;

4. Expresses its grave concern at the recent serious instances of deliberate stereotyping of religions, their adherents and sacred persons in the media and by political parties and groups in some societies, and at the associated provocation and political exploitation;

5. Recognizes that, in the context of the fight against terrorism, defamation of religions becomes an aggravating factor that contributes to the denial of fundamental rights and freedoms of target groups and their economic and social exclusion;

6. Expresses concern at laws or administrative measures that have been specifically designed to control and monitor Muslim minorities, thereby stigmatizing them and legitimizing the discrimination that they experience;

7. Strongly deplores physical attacks and assaults on businesses, cultural centres and places of worship of all religions and targeting of religious symbols;

8. Urges States to take actions to prohibit the dissemination, including through political institutions and organizations, of racist and xenophobic ideas and material aimed at any religion or its followers that constitute incitement to racial and religious hatred, hostility or violence;

9. Also urges States to provide, within their respective legal and constitutional systems, adequate protection against acts of hatred, discrimination, intimidation and coercion resulting from the defamation of any religion, to take all possible measures to promote tolerance and respect for all religions and their value systems and to complement legal systems with intellectual and moral strategies to combat religious hatred and intolerance;

10. Emphasizes that respect of religions and their protection from contempt is an essential element conducive for the exercise by all of the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion;

11. Urges all States to ensure that all public officials, including members of law enforcement bodies, the military, civil servants and educators, in the course of their official duties, respect all religions and beliefs and do not discriminate against persons on the grounds of their religion or belief, and that all necessary and appropriate education or training is provided;

12. Emphasizes that, as stipulated in international human rights law, everyone has the right to freedom of expression, and that the exercise of this right carries with it special duties and responsibilities, and may therefore be subject to certain restrictions, but only those provided by law and necessary for the respect of the rights or reputations of others, or for the protection of national security or of public order, or of public health or morals;

13. Reaffirms that general comment No. 15 of the Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination, in which the Committee stipulates that the prohibition of the dissemination of all ideas based upon racial superiority or hatred is compatible with the freedom of opinion and expression, is equally applicable to the question of incitement to religious hatred;

14. Deplores the use of printed, audio-visual and electronic media, including the Internet, and of any other means to incite acts of violence, xenophobia or related intolerance and discrimination towards Islam or any religion;

15. Invites the Special Rapporteur on contemporary forms of racism, racial discrimination, xenophobia and related intolerance to continue to report on all manifestations of defamation of religions, and in particular on the serious implications of Islamophobia, on the enjoyment of all rights to the Council at its ninth session;

16. Requests the High Commissioner for Human Rights to report on the implementation of the present resolution and to submit a study compiling relevant existing legislations and jurisprudence concerning defamation of and contempt for religions to the Council at its ninth session.

http://ap.ohchr.org/documents/sdpage_e.aspx?b=10&se=76&t=11

Other Comments by mmurray

37. Comment #152982 by FightingFalcon on March 31, 2008 at 7:39 pm

 avatar^^^

#10 is the worst? How about the whole fucking document? Not a single mention of secularists, Atheists, Agnostics, etc.

I forgot....Islam is the victim. That whole document can jog on.

Other Comments by FightingFalcon

38. Comment #152984 by Dr Benway on March 31, 2008 at 7:41 pm

 avatarWell, there is room for clever lawyering above.

First, we must define the word "religion." If we can get that to mean, "matters of personal concience" that would include the position that no god(s) exist. Thus a respect for atheism would be included in the protections against "hate."
I guess we gave up on the UN a long time ago.
I'm afraid we're stuck with Larry, Moe, and Curley. We can't not talk to them. Over the past 20 years, our common flat has grown too small for isolationism to work.

Other Comments by Dr Benway

39. Comment #152985 by Russell Blackford on March 31, 2008 at 7:46 pm

The UN has just lost its remaining moral authority in one hit. That's a terrible pity because we desperately need international bodies with moral authority to help solve some of the pressing problems of the world, such as the burden of global poverty.

Previously, the UN has merely looked inept. With this move, it looks positively malevolent. I don't see how its pronouncements can ever be taken seriously again after this flagrant attack on the most important human right of all, which all the others depend on: freedom of speech.

Other Comments by Russell Blackford

40. Comment #152986 by mmurray on March 31, 2008 at 7:47 pm

 avatarYes I think 10 is the worst as the others can hid behind rejecting discrimination whereas it is going after people who have contempt for religion. But I am happy to agree the whole thing is outrageous!

I found the votes I think

In favour (24): Algeria, Azerbaijan, Bahrain, Bangladesh, Cameroon, China, Cuba, Djibouti, Gabon, Indonesia, Jordan, Malaysia, Mali, Mauritius, Mexico, Morocco, Pakistan, Philippines, Russian Federation, Saudi Arabia, Senegal, South Africa, Sri Lanka and Tunisia.

Against (14): Canada, Czech Republic, Finland, France, Germany, Guatemala, Japan, Netherlands, Poland, Republic of Korea, Romania, Switzerland, Ukraine and United Kingdom.

Abstentions (9): Argentina, Brazil, Ecuador, Ghana, India, Nigeria, Peru, Uruguay and Zambia.

I assume US and Australia were going with the UK from the article above. I am not sure how that works.

The votes are from a strange source found by googling.

http://www.assistnews.net/Stories/2007/s07040052.htm

Dr Benway there are no definitions in this document. Presumably these are somewhere in earlier UN documents maybe even the original Declaration on Human Rights.

Michael

Other Comments by mmurray

41. Comment #152987 by FightingFalcon on March 31, 2008 at 7:48 pm

 avatarEven if that stipulation were made (and it would be a cold day in Hell before the UN ever stuck its neck out in protection of Atheists), the hate crime garbage would have to go. I briefly followed the hate crime debate in the other thread but I'd rather not reignite it here as well. Suffice it to say that I'm opposed to any and all hate crime legislation.

Certainly not Isolationism but I'm not sacrificing my national sovereignty to that complete joke known as the UN. People actually think that the UN has worked/is working? What world exactly are they living in?

Other Comments by FightingFalcon

42. Comment #152989 by Quine on March 31, 2008 at 7:59 pm

 avatarThe straight up observation that religion is stupid is not from contempt, but from reason. Limiting speech that calls for violence is one thing, speaking against religion that does violence cannot be on the same level.

However, it does look like publishing TGD, now, makes you an international criminal. Get ready for trials in the ICC.

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43. Comment #152990 by Dr Benway on March 31, 2008 at 8:01 pm

 avatarI agree with you about the hate speech, Falcon. And even if optimism isn't warranted, if I were involved with this committee, I'd use my meager Socratic skills to point out the wrinkles and help the peeps iron them out. They don't see it; but I see where the road leads: to Thomas Jefferson. Liberty for one means liberty for all. Protection for one means protection for all.

We dreamed up the hate crime laws in the late 1980s/early 1990s cuz we wanted to go after some really annoying pricks: the Holocost deniers, HIV positive haters, gay bashers, and nationalist thugs.

Well, now we get to see how it feels when the tables are turned. Now we're the annoying pricks.

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44. Comment #152991 by mmurray on March 31, 2008 at 8:02 pm

 avatar

13. Reaffirms that general comment No. 15 of the Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination, in which the Committee stipulates that the prohibition of the dissemination of all ideas based upon racial superiority or hatred is compatible with the freedom of opinion and expression, is equally applicable to the question of incitement to religious hatred;


OK lets make that change

the prohibition of the dissemination of all ideas based upon religious superiority or hatred is compatible with the freedom of opinion and expression,


So we should ban religions from asserting that they are superior to other religions? Does that include asserting they are superior to non-religions. In either case I can go with that. Not sure where that leaves the second commandment

Do not have any other gods before me.



Michael

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45. Comment #152993 by prettygoodformonkeys on March 31, 2008 at 8:08 pm

 avatar"required to report on abuse...."

Let them report on 'abuse', and have it evaluated. People are still involved, it isn't over; let them make each individual case and let it try and make sense. let them defend Sharia, and genital mutilation, and time after time people will shine a light on it.

Each case has to make sense; we just have to make sure they are public and accountable for their decisions. Things change back, too.

Meanwhile: I, too, am depressed.

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46. Comment #152994 by mmurray on March 31, 2008 at 8:08 pm

 avatar
However, it does look like publishing TGD, now, makes you an international criminal. Get ready for trials in the ICC.


Not sure if you were just making a joke -- but I read that this Commissions resolutions are non binding. This is not (yet ?) international human rights law.

Michael

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47. Comment #152995 by hoops mccann on March 31, 2008 at 8:17 pm

 avatar"War is Peace
Freedom is Slavery
Ignorance is Strength"

- Orwell

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48. Comment #152996 by Dr Benway on March 31, 2008 at 8:17 pm

 avatarI'm a little surprised by China. The Catholics are likely in favor of the document in principle, so long as Christianity is as protected from "hate" as Islam. That might explain why the Philippines and Mexico are on this list.

Binding or not, the 1948 Universal Declaration of Human Rights defined a moral standard that I found useful in many arguments. For example, Muslims wanting to hold community courts might be told "Fine, so long as you agree to the principles outlined in the UN Declaration of Human Rights."

Sad to undermine what once seemed a general consensus among modern states.

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49. Comment #152998 by Quine on March 31, 2008 at 8:21 pm

 avatar
However, it does look like publishing TGD, now, makes you an international criminal. Get ready for trials in the ICC.

Not sure if you were just making a joke -- but I read that this Commissions resolutions are non binding. This is not (yet ?) international human rights law.


I should have used the <qusaifacetious> </qusaifacetious> tags.

Other Comments by Quine

50. Comment #153000 by Goldy on March 31, 2008 at 8:22 pm

Well, what a perfectly depresing day to log in and read comments! Both here and at teh other thread about Muslims!
I have been taking time off - got some life things to sort out, like cars that break, babies and gardens, etc, so can't jump into the conversations as before.
Here, I can see a problem - but then again, look who voted for what. Saudis in bed with the Chinese government - that'll be a marriage in hell :-) As the article said, they don;t care about freedom of expression or indeed human rights. Well, if they don't adhere tothem, fuck'em. We won't either. I believe there is an expression cautioning one to beware of wishing for things as they might come true. Fine, the religious want freedom of expression to be silenced, then they shall be. No more mosques, no more sermons without governmental supervision. Islam in the west will become like Islam in the East - oppressed. They can't complein as their compatriots and co-religionists wanted it that way.
There is no need to worry - things look bad but wait 20 years or so. My wife's family mananged to get through the cultural revolution, we got throught the spectre of nuclear warfare, the anti-Islamic backlash is probably starting now (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/04/world/middleeast/04youth.html?_r=1&scp=2&sq=iraq, clerics&st=nyt&oref=slogin and http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/world/AP-Turkey-Secularism.html?scp=2&sq=turkey&st=nyt - sorry it's all from just one news source).
For all the destruction we see, there has to be reconstruction. And as bad as things look, remember, we aren't Burmese or Darfuri or Tibetans (though, in the case of the latter, many Chinese see them as we see our own aboriginal peoples in our ex-colonial lands. Think how you consider that drunk Abo or that moko'd Maori in the bar or that drunk Indian in his beat up old pick-up next time....) - we have these freedoms, we just need to make sure we use our voting power to keep them for a bit longer.

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