










Richard Dawkins' secular army must be stopped. God is behind some of our greatest art2. Comment #160290 by Galactic Lord Xenu on April 13, 2008 at 10:32 pm
3. Comment #160291 by Galactic Lord Xenu on April 13, 2008 at 10:37 pm
4. Comment #160293 by riki on April 13, 2008 at 10:44 pm
5. Comment #160294 by papavb on April 13, 2008 at 10:46 pm
Bah!6. Comment #160296 by Strappado on April 13, 2008 at 10:54 pm
7. Comment #160297 by Louis Perry on April 13, 2008 at 10:58 pm
Oh, please. Men and women have created, and will continue to create, great, inspiring (secular) art that is, and will be, the equal of anything ever produced by the "inspiration from faith." That the "Dawkins army" could be a threat to art is purely laughable.8. Comment #160298 by Traytheist on April 13, 2008 at 10:59 pm
9. Comment #160299 by BathTub on April 13, 2008 at 11:00 pm
I'm quite sure I've heard Richard Dawkins advocate study of the bible as literature and an important cultural history document plenty of times, so I really don't get his point.10. Comment #160301 by RamziD on April 13, 2008 at 11:05 pm
I don't think RD has ever denied the effect religion has had on the arts. The journalist in this article seems to be implying that RD would prefer to do away with biblical writings altogether. I think he has made it clear, though, on many occasions that the bible should be appreciated in a literary sense, if nothing else. He has also stated that all religions should be taught about in schools. Again, the author seems to be implying that the goal is to exterminate all signs of religion, and that is not true.11. Comment #160302 by Janus on April 13, 2008 at 11:06 pm
12. Comment #160303 by flying goose on April 13, 2008 at 11:09 pm
13. Comment #160304 by HeyBishop on April 13, 2008 at 11:13 pm
14. Comment #160305 by quill on April 13, 2008 at 11:15 pm
15. Comment #160307 by ghost of numf-el on April 13, 2008 at 11:23 pm
What a load of shite.16. Comment #160308 by Christopher Davis on April 13, 2008 at 11:27 pm
What seems to escape Ravenhill, is that Davies probably would not have used the word "worshipping" if it weren't for religious tradition.17. Comment #160309 by Skid on April 13, 2008 at 11:28 pm
Let's not overvalue the word "inspired" too much! If religion never existed to inspire, talented and thinking people would still have had a million other things they could draw upon for inspiration in a split second (philosophy, nature, people, love, sex...to name a few). Sources of inspiration are a dime a dozen, often a mere passing thought, or (more often than not) entirely someone else's idea. Let's be truthful here -- gainful employment was (and is) the true "inspiration" that the church offered the many artists it has employed. The true magic (metaphorically speaking) always was/is in the minds and bodies of the architects, the engineers, the painters, the craftsmen, the thinkers, the philosophers...not in the inspirational source! Please stop the idiotic practice of equivocation between the true value of art/architecture/philosophy/thought and the inspirational sources behind them. Inspiration is, at most, a mild catalyst and more often than not, quite disposable.18. Comment #160311 by JHS on April 13, 2008 at 11:35 pm
And as if this tosh needed a capper, his little qualification at the bottom ("Of course,...") completely undermines the rest of his argument. It's awfully hard to pat a religion on the head for having pretty churches while they basically continue to wage war on gays, women, atheists, other religious delusionals, science, civil liberties, etc.19. Comment #160312 by Damien White on April 13, 2008 at 11:36 pm
Wow. This is one of the few time i've ever felt like slapping an atheist/agnostic for their beliefs.20. Comment #160314 by mblarson323 on April 13, 2008 at 11:42 pm
21. Comment #160315 by njwong on April 13, 2008 at 11:43 pm
22. Comment #160317 by born-again-atheist on April 13, 2008 at 11:48 pm
23. Comment #160318 by zoomlines on April 13, 2008 at 11:58 pm
Surely one of the greatest threats to Art at the moment is religion itself.24. Comment #160319 by Quine on April 14, 2008 at 12:07 am
25. Comment #160321 by He'sAVeryNaughtyBoy on April 14, 2008 at 12:14 am
The first three paragraphs are pure drivel written from a position of ignorance.26. Comment #160322 by Matt7895 on April 14, 2008 at 12:14 am
Richard has addressed this himself, many times, as have Sam, Christopher and Dan. Just another sorry example of a critic who hasn't read up on the man he blasts. 27. Comment #160323 by Koreman on April 14, 2008 at 12:19 am
Santaclaus is inspiring too. Many grew up with a few years believing. Fond memories. Nice art has been produced.28. Comment #160326 by hungarianelephant on April 14, 2008 at 12:33 am
29. Comment #160328 by UnholyGodn on April 14, 2008 at 12:46 am
I seem to remember Dr Dawkins mentioning on a number of occasions inlcuding in TGD, that he is not against the study of Christian culture for better understanding of English language (He specifically states the requirement of christian knowledge to fully appreciate shakespere) I'm sure that this goes to include that he does not want any of these monuments mentioned torn down, or any art destroyed. I don't think anyone does. We can study Religion and it's good things, without having to believe in it.30. Comment #160329 by John Desclin on April 14, 2008 at 12:49 am
This was a rather both ludicrous and sorry piece of drivel. Does it deserve such publicity and concern from all reasonable people here?31. Comment #160331 by shonny on April 14, 2008 at 12:50 am
Mark Ravenhill:32. Comment #160332 by bamboospitfire on April 14, 2008 at 12:51 am
33. Comment #160336 by Logicel on April 14, 2008 at 1:05 am
34. Comment #160337 by Adam Morrison on April 14, 2008 at 1:05 am
35. Comment #160338 by happy on April 14, 2008 at 1:07 am
"This idea that all artists are essentially humanists is a comforting myth for an agnostic age. There is little evidence to support it. It is, if you like, the agnostic's delusion - because the very opposite is true."36. Comment #160341 by Tauriq on April 14, 2008 at 1:11 am
Ravenhill has obviously not read anything of Dawkins or Dennett. He would know that Dawkins and Dennet both propose an objective view of ALL religions. Even Ravenhill is focussing ONLY on Christianity - what about Islamic architecture? What about the translations of Arabic scholars of Aristostle, scholars "inspired by God" (whatever Ravenhil means by that). He is also averse to using "atheist" as if it is a poisoned word that will hurt him.37. Comment #160342 by foxfire on April 14, 2008 at 1:13 am
The Bible - as literature, if nothing else - should be an essential part of every child's experience. And children should study the great Christian art of the past, too.
Richard Dawkins' secular army must be stopped. God is behind some of our greatest art
38. Comment #160343 by Logicel on April 14, 2008 at 1:14 am
39. Comment #160346 by Duffman6 on April 14, 2008 at 1:20 am
40. Comment #160348 by scoobie on April 14, 2008 at 1:26 am
This was obviously Ravenhill's first draft and he really ought to have had another go. RT Davies obviously meant it as a metaphor and besides, people have been falling at the feet of revered people for millennia. So why should it be reminiscent specifically of a mythical godman riding two donkeys on his way to eventually being crucified? Is this just an example of shoe-horning in an ill-fitting story construct or does RD get to rise from the dead in this episode?
Falling at his feet? Worshipping? It all seems oddly reminiscent of the triumphal entry of Jesus into Jerusalem in the days before his Passion;
41. Comment #160350 by D'Arcy on April 14, 2008 at 1:32 am
42. Comment #160355 by Jiten on April 14, 2008 at 1:40 am
43. Comment #160356 by Luis_Cayetano on April 14, 2008 at 1:41 am
"Worshipping"? "Falling at his feet"? Does it not occur to this dunce that perhaps, unlike Jesus (today, if not in antiquity), people DON'T ACTUALLY worship and fall at the feet of Dawkins, but that this was merely colourful language to stand in for people's admiration of him? (well deserved, one would think, for providing a breath of fresh air in this age of nauseating, annoying, dumb-as-shit pop-gibberish)44. Comment #160357 by Vadjong on April 14, 2008 at 1:42 am
45. Comment #160358 by ridelo on April 14, 2008 at 1:43 am
46. Comment #160359 by hungover on April 14, 2008 at 1:45 am
"aggressive secularism"?47. Comment #160361 by whig on April 14, 2008 at 1:48 am
This article would be more credible if he acknowledged the particular arguments in The God Delusion, without which it seems he hasnt even read the book he's criticizing. He has two points, one about morality, the second about art. On the first, I have in front of my a coffee table book, The Great Philosophers, which has profiles of 54 philosophers from antient times to those still living. Obviously some of those were in a Christian context, but a fair amount of them were not, either for being before Jesus' time or modern secularists. What we think of morality at this stage is a mix of all these influences, as well as a reaction to events of the last century and certain amount of biological instinct. Personally, I see Christianity as a poor guide for morality.48. Comment #160362 by Russell Blackford on April 14, 2008 at 1:51 am
It's a silly article - naive in its approach and only mentioning Richard Dawkins because his name makes good copy.49. Comment #160364 by CJ22 on April 14, 2008 at 1:56 am
50. Comment #160367 by TearsInTheRain on April 14, 2008 at 2:04 am
1. Comment #160289 by cam9976 on April 13, 2008 at 10:31 pm
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