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Mount Vernon schools to hire investigator in Bible case
by Columbus Dispatch
Thanks to Richard Nash for the link.
http://www.columbusdispatch.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2008/04/22/bible_on_desk.html
Mount Vernon schools to hire investigator in Bible case
Teacher allegedly burned crosses onto students' arms
By Alayna DeMartini
The Mount Vernon public-school science teacher who won't remove his personal Bible from the top of his desk also is accused of conducting a religious "healing session" during school and burning crosses onto students' arms.
Administrators say John Freshwater taught his own religious beliefs in his classes, including describing the meaning of Good Friday and Easter.
An independent investigator will be hired to look into claims involving Freshwater, an eighth-grade teacher at Mount Vernon Middle School, the school board decided today. An administrator will monitor his classes until the probe ends.
The "healing" allegedly occurred when Freshwater was a chaperone for a Christian student-athlete group that met during school hours. A guest speaker visiting the group in January had an illness, and Freshwater called for his healing.
"He said out loud, 'Satan be removed from this man,'" said Jessica Philemond, an attorney representing a Mount Vernon Middle School student who witnessed the event.
The same boy also was among several students branded during a science class in which Freshwater asked for volunteers who wanted to see how an electrical device in his classroom worked.
"He (the boy) didn't know it would be a cross and he didn't know it was going to hurt," Philemond said.
Neither Freshwater nor his attorneys could be reached for comment yesterday.
Dave Daubenmire, who has acted as Freshwater's spokesman, said it was calculating of the Mount Vernon school board to release the allegations about Freshwater yesterday.
"What you're seeing is a classic example of character assassination … to release nothing more than allegations and say now they're going to investigate," Daubenmire said.
The issue of burning crosses onto students' forearms is "an old allegation" that was first brought up in December, and school officials did not act on it at the time, Daubenmire said.
Daubenmire is a former London High School football coach whose district was sued in 1999 after he led his players in prayer at games, practices and meetings.
Philemond said the parents of one of the students who were branded with a cross contacted her when the school board took no action.
Last week, Middle School Principal William D. White told Freshwater to remove "all religious items" from his classroom.
Freshwater agreed to take down the Ten Commandments, posters with Bible verses and Bibles on a shelf. But he refused to remove his personal Bible from his desk.
Superintendent Stephen Short emphasized in a news release today that the allegations involving Freshwater extend beyond that Bible.
"This is not about his personal Bible on his desktop," the release states. "It is alleged he used his classroom to advance religion … We have an obligation to protect our students' rights."
Short could not be reached for comment yesterday.
R. Kelly Hamilton, one of Freshwater's attorneys, said last week that his client considers the Bible an item that brings him inspiration. He compared it to a personal photo that someone puts on a desk at work.
A public-school employee shouldn't have a Bible out on a desk in a classroom because that's incorporating religion, albeit indirectly, into the school, said Ohio State University law professor Daniel Tokaji.
"When he's in the classroom, he certainly has responsibilities … one of which is religious neutrality," Takaji said.
After Freshwater went public with his refusal to remove the Bible, student supporters rallied on his behalf.
Cassidy Garrad, a student in Freshwater's class who was at the rally on Friday, said she considers the teacher a victim.
"I think it's pretty wrong that they're doing it," Garrad said of the school administration's release of the most recent allegations.
"If they were going to do anything, they should have taken him out and told him, instead of making all this news about it, and making such a commotion."
ademartini@dispatch.com
http://www.columbusdispatch.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2008/04/22/bible_on_desk.html
Mount Vernon schools to hire investigator in Bible case
Teacher allegedly burned crosses onto students' arms
By Alayna DeMartini
The Mount Vernon public-school science teacher who won't remove his personal Bible from the top of his desk also is accused of conducting a religious "healing session" during school and burning crosses onto students' arms.
Administrators say John Freshwater taught his own religious beliefs in his classes, including describing the meaning of Good Friday and Easter.
An independent investigator will be hired to look into claims involving Freshwater, an eighth-grade teacher at Mount Vernon Middle School, the school board decided today. An administrator will monitor his classes until the probe ends.
The "healing" allegedly occurred when Freshwater was a chaperone for a Christian student-athlete group that met during school hours. A guest speaker visiting the group in January had an illness, and Freshwater called for his healing.
"He said out loud, 'Satan be removed from this man,'" said Jessica Philemond, an attorney representing a Mount Vernon Middle School student who witnessed the event.
The same boy also was among several students branded during a science class in which Freshwater asked for volunteers who wanted to see how an electrical device in his classroom worked.
"He (the boy) didn't know it would be a cross and he didn't know it was going to hurt," Philemond said.
Neither Freshwater nor his attorneys could be reached for comment yesterday.
Dave Daubenmire, who has acted as Freshwater's spokesman, said it was calculating of the Mount Vernon school board to release the allegations about Freshwater yesterday.
"What you're seeing is a classic example of character assassination … to release nothing more than allegations and say now they're going to investigate," Daubenmire said.
The issue of burning crosses onto students' forearms is "an old allegation" that was first brought up in December, and school officials did not act on it at the time, Daubenmire said.
Daubenmire is a former London High School football coach whose district was sued in 1999 after he led his players in prayer at games, practices and meetings.
Philemond said the parents of one of the students who were branded with a cross contacted her when the school board took no action.
Last week, Middle School Principal William D. White told Freshwater to remove "all religious items" from his classroom.
Freshwater agreed to take down the Ten Commandments, posters with Bible verses and Bibles on a shelf. But he refused to remove his personal Bible from his desk.
Superintendent Stephen Short emphasized in a news release today that the allegations involving Freshwater extend beyond that Bible.
"This is not about his personal Bible on his desktop," the release states. "It is alleged he used his classroom to advance religion … We have an obligation to protect our students' rights."
Short could not be reached for comment yesterday.
R. Kelly Hamilton, one of Freshwater's attorneys, said last week that his client considers the Bible an item that brings him inspiration. He compared it to a personal photo that someone puts on a desk at work.
A public-school employee shouldn't have a Bible out on a desk in a classroom because that's incorporating religion, albeit indirectly, into the school, said Ohio State University law professor Daniel Tokaji.
"When he's in the classroom, he certainly has responsibilities … one of which is religious neutrality," Takaji said.
After Freshwater went public with his refusal to remove the Bible, student supporters rallied on his behalf.
Cassidy Garrad, a student in Freshwater's class who was at the rally on Friday, said she considers the teacher a victim.
"I think it's pretty wrong that they're doing it," Garrad said of the school administration's release of the most recent allegations.
"If they were going to do anything, they should have taken him out and told him, instead of making all this news about it, and making such a commotion."
ademartini@dispatch.com
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Posted: Friday, April 25, 2008 | PermalinkComments 1 - 44 of 44 |
Reload Comments | Back to Top | Page Numbers2. Comment #168656 by irate_atheist on April 25, 2008 at 9:09 am
Is it a small investigator or a large case? I think we should be told. Other Comments by irate_atheist
3. Comment #168668 by Szymanowski on April 25, 2008 at 9:16 am
Hang on, this guy has been accused of very serious crimes and the only repercussion is that his own employer hires a (visible) "investigator" to monitor him temporarily? Other Comments by Szymanowski
4. Comment #168675 by irate_atheist on April 25, 2008 at 9:26 am
3. Comment #168668 by Szymanowski -
Yeah. But the investigator's in a Bible case. There aren't many investigators that can fit one. The school board can't be too choosey.
Other Comments by irate_atheist
5. Comment #168700 by jiujitstheist on April 25, 2008 at 9:49 am
I live in the columbus area and was suprised to see this as I hadn't heard anything about it before seeing it on this site.What doesn't suprise me is this wack-a-doo.
I'm sorry to say that these types of fools are all over the place here.
The "Church" of Scientcrockery is trying to get permission to build a big new building in the area.
I work in the same cubicle as a Fundy.
Don't get me started................
Other Comments by jiujitstheist
6. Comment #168712 by Adam Morrison on April 25, 2008 at 10:03 am
Well, he should be up on charges for burning crosses into peoples arms.
If there was a divine justice, he'd end up in prison and have the stuffing pummeled out of him at some point.
But since there isn't, hopefully he'll at least get a substantial monetary slap and a freshly-filled pink slip.
Other Comments by Adam Morrison
7. Comment #168718 by Chris Bell on April 25, 2008 at 10:06 am
As to "just" hiring an investigator, it's a big step. The point is that the investigator will confirm/deny the allegations, and then the school can fire the guy with legal protection.Very smart, I think.
Other Comments by Chris Bell
8. Comment #168784 by CambrianExplosion on April 25, 2008 at 10:56 am
"If they were going to do anything, they should have taken him out and told him, instead of making all this news about it, and making such a commotion."
They DID tell. He refused. Blinders are for horses, not people. Sigh.
Other Comments by CambrianExplosion
9. Comment #168800 by Ty_Webb on April 25, 2008 at 11:13 am
I don't see what the problem is with teaching the meaning of Good Friday and Easter. Where's the harm in "Good Friday is the day Christians believe that Jesus was sacrificed for mankind's sins and Easter is the day that everyone found out actually he wasn't sacrificed at all, he merely popped out for a couple of days."I would have no objection to this at all. I would however be hoping that the teacher in question will get to spend some time as a guest of the state for burning crosses into children's arms.
Other Comments by Ty_Webb
10. Comment #168805 by hoops mccann on April 25, 2008 at 11:18 am
Adam Morrison:
"Well, he should be up on charges for burning crosses into peoples arms. "
That's even worse than burning them on peoples lawns.
Other Comments by hoops mccann
11. Comment #168824 by jimbob on April 25, 2008 at 11:33 am
Is this guy related to Chuck Norris?Other Comments by jimbob
12. Comment #168875 by MrPickwick on April 25, 2008 at 12:17 pm
Ok this is all very interesting but you are all missing the point... was Satan succesfully removed or not? Other Comments by MrPickwick
13. Comment #168885 by Opisthokont on April 25, 2008 at 12:30 pm
The problem here, with this teacher, is not that he was explaining the meaning of Christian holidays to his class. He was actively proselytising his students. Moreover, he was doing so in a science class. He has absolutely no business even bringing up the topic in such a circumstance, and he should not be allowed to push his beliefs on his students.Meanwhile, I am highly suspicious of the efficacy of sending an investigator to his class to observe his behaviour. Unless he is a complete moron, he can act like a civilised, secular teacher for the period that the investigator is present, and revert to his previous behaviour afterward. I would be surprised if he were not at least to tone down his activity during such a period. How stupid would he have to be to continue burning crosses into students' arms if he knows that such activity is controversial?!
One can only hope that he is not so wily as I expect, and that whatever shenanigans he has been up to can be documented. But I doubt that such is possible. The administrators have tipped their hand, and any hope for an objective confirmation has been eliminated.
Other Comments by Opisthokont
14. Comment #168909 by Elles on April 25, 2008 at 12:50 pm
Having a Bible on your desk, fine. My English teacher kept The God Delusion on her desk for a while... until I told her she'd been borrowing it from me for too long.Telling your students what Good Friday and Easter are all about, fine. You can tell students what certain religions believe objectively. It's when you start rambling about "Jesus Christ our LORD and savior..." that it become preaching.
Burning crosses into your students arms...
That's just a clear sign of mental instability. Fire the man.
Other Comments by Elles
15. Comment #168983 by Adam Morrison on April 25, 2008 at 1:50 pm
Re: hoops mccann, mr pickwick
Well played sirs, well played.
Though you never know, he could be the type that has to dress up like a ghost with a pointy head from time to time.
Other Comments by Adam Morrison
16. Comment #169041 by robotaholic on April 25, 2008 at 2:24 pm
when he's fired he should be escorted out by police officers IMHO - and wow branding people is kind of rough don't ya think? - they're not cows (er sheep)Other Comments by robotaholic
17. Comment #169136 by ebugogo on April 25, 2008 at 2:57 pm
Imagine the school's response if that teacher had a book of wicca on his desk & burned a pentagram onto students. Other Comments by ebugogo
18. Comment #169199 by k1mgy on April 25, 2008 at 3:48 pm
Are these religious types really so insecure that they need a bible on their desk?Pathetic.
Other Comments by k1mgy
19. Comment #169248 by 24fps on April 25, 2008 at 4:40 pm
I wouldn't care about a teacher having a bible on his desk -- who cares? Proselytizing I would take some issue with, but I've already taught my daughters to deflect that sort of nonsense.But if one of my children came home with a religious symbol branded on her arm I would do grievous bodily harm to the lunatic who did it.
Other Comments by 24fps
20. Comment #169253 by Lucas on April 25, 2008 at 4:43 pm
I'm with ebugogo. This guy must submit to the children he branded branding him with pentagrams. I'll do it myself if they'd rather not smell his flesh. Other Comments by Lucas
21. Comment #169263 by Grantaire of JC on April 25, 2008 at 4:49 pm
Embugogo,Well stated! Its less a news story because it is a bible!
Other Comments by Grantaire of JC
22. Comment #169265 by Border Collie on April 25, 2008 at 4:51 pm
Mount Vernon, Ohio, I presume? Texas doesn't need another idiotic episode at the moment. Hey, who cares? I'm gonna go walk the dogs.Other Comments by Border Collie
23. Comment #169285 by Bigorra on April 25, 2008 at 5:17 pm
"What you're seeing is a classic example of character assassination … to release nothing more than allegations and say now they're going to investigate," Daubenmire said.
The issue of burning crosses onto students' forearms is "an old allegation" that was first brought up in December, and school officials did not act on it at the time, Daubenmire said.
Daubenmire, you are a moron. If there were no allegations, then there would be no reason to investigate, but since there are allegations there will be an investigation. It's very simple. It's also not an "old allegation" at the ripe age of four months. There are things in my refrigerator older than that.
But I guess it's too much to expect a guy like Douchenmire to stop supporting a fellow teacher who breaks the same rules he does.
Other Comments by Bigorra
24. Comment #169302 by Szymanowski on April 25, 2008 at 6:28 pm
#168718 by Chris Bell-"An independent investigator will be hired to look into claims involving Freshwater, an eighth-grade teacher at Mount Vernon Middle School, the school board decided today. An administrator will monitor his classes until the probe ends."
The classes are being "monitored". What evidence can the investigator possibly gather from this against the teacher, whether the allegations are true or not?
Other Comments by Szymanowski
25. Comment #169305 by MorituriMax on April 25, 2008 at 6:33 pm
Hmmm, I think I'll take the branding charge with a grain of salt, unless they can actually prove he did do that..If it turns out he did do it... well one hopes he won't be teaching kids anymore. I don't really mind the Bible on the desk, it is his desk and we have the freedom to read what we want.. now if he has a shiny apply on there, that's just beyond the bounds of good taste... 8 )
Other Comments by MorituriMax
26. Comment #169311 by lievemebe on April 25, 2008 at 6:49 pm
I toyed with the idea that wierdo fundies should be treated differently from moderately religious people. I quickly dismissed that from my mind as I recall the words of Dawkins and others that all religious believers encourage anti-social and irrational behaviour.Other Comments by lievemebe
27. Comment #169352 by will young on April 25, 2008 at 8:05 pm
#9
"I don't see what the problem is with teaching the meaning of Good Friday and Easter."
#13In a science class ?? You both are kidding right ??
"The problem here, with this teacher, is not that he was explaining the meaning of Christian holidays to his class."
From articleExcept that a personal photograph is an accurate representation of reality and doesn't jump the wall between church and state.
"R. Kelly Hamilton, one of Freshwater's attorneys, said last week that his client considers the Bible an item that brings him inspiration. He compared it to a personal photo that someone puts on a desk at work."
Other Comments by will young
28. Comment #169394 by babrock on April 26, 2008 at 1:07 am
Not that this affects t severity of t infraction but I am curios where this occurred. both Mt. Vernon and Columbus ubiquitous here in Merca. My wife said she knew of a Columbus in Ga. as well as t one in Ohio.We here do not have t variation of India or t old USSR w/ major language and cultural differences but t laws and social mores do vary from state to state.
Also we have hundreds, if not thousands, of newspapers so I am not familiar w/ t Dispatch.
This sounds like something that I would expect from here in t bible belt, so I would guess Georgia.
I am sure it could be checked tho I donot know that I am computer savey enuf to do it.
Other Comments by babrock
29. Comment #169396 by babrock on April 26, 2008 at 1:14 am
That was amazingly easy. I am still not used to how incredible this magical devise is.I think I was wrong. It seems it was not Ga. but Ohio after all.
Other Comments by babrock
30. Comment #169404 by JimJ on April 26, 2008 at 2:11 am
I had a teacher senior year who might as well have been a preacher, when we weren't working (it was a masonry class) he was constantly preaching. He even talked about being in some town that was "full of fags" and how he wished someone would drop a bomb on it. Everyone else in the class was of the same beliefs so speaking up would've meant being ostracized. Looking back, I really wish I would've told him off. I'm ashamed to say that there was a time when I was starting to fall for his bullshit, thankfully I came to my senses. As far as I know, no crosses were burned into anyone. Actually, aside from his insane religious views, he was a really nice guy.Other Comments by JimJ
31. Comment #169427 by ZekeCDN on April 26, 2008 at 4:26 am
From the article:"If they were going to do anything, they should have taken him out and told him, instead of making all this news about it, and making such a commotion."
Maybe it's just speculation by an uniformed student, but this makes it sound as if Freshwater manipulated his class into supporting him by playing the victim--i.e. acting as if the school's administration had not already taken many steps to deal with the situation privately before resorting to the monitor and the attendant publicity.
Other Comments by ZekeCDN
32. Comment #169439 by Simonw on April 26, 2008 at 5:12 am
"... and Easter is the day that everyone found out actually he wasn't sacrificed at all"How does that explains the bunny and the eggs then?
Easter is a festival probably descended (amongst other things) from the Persian New Year festival. Which involves hiding sweets and spring cleans, and predates the purported birth of Christ by at least 6 centuries.
Easter is just one of a number of festivals left over from the old new year (spring solstice). I doubt in truth that they have one common origin, as items from various cultures have been mixed up over the centuries.
Sure the Christians hijacked it, but please don't spread their version of events. People celebrated in the spring in a recognizable Easter celebration before Christ was born. People will probably welcome the arrival of spring long after Christ is forgotten.
Other Comments by Simonw
33. Comment #169447 by aquilacane on April 26, 2008 at 5:57 am
I was probably my most verbally abusive with the religious in grade eight. My father had died a few years earlier. That really strengthened my atheism making me extremely sensitive to any religious influence. I refused to sing Christmas carols in music class (the teacher did not know what to do). I would stand outside of the school during the lords prayer. Any time any teacher ever made a ref. to god, I would ask for proof, or tell them to shut up. If this teacher had branded me with a cross when I was in grade eight, I probably would have killed him were he stood. And I mean that. I would have made every effort to throttle him to death. Today I would only beat him to within an inch of his life. Oh how the wisdom of age tempers our hand in the fog of furry. Other Comments by aquilacane
34. Comment #169558 by rodentfuel on April 26, 2008 at 9:47 am
I'm from Ohio... so this kinda thing is not very shocking (given that we are an hour away from the Creation Museum). Well the cross thing is shocking...
Interesting note on this topic - Mr. Freshwater (no Tiktaalik in his family tree) was told to stop handing out anti-evolution materials back in 2006. Ohio teaching standards actually do not allow this type of thing.
Here's the letter to Mr. Freshwater from the school board.
http://www.dispatch.com/wwwexportcontent/sites/dispatch/local_news/stories/2008/04/22/2006_complaint.pdf
Other Comments by rodentfuel
35. Comment #169567 by Geoff on April 26, 2008 at 10:05 am
32. Comment #169439 by Simonw
Easter is just one of a number of festivals left over from the old new year (spring solstice).
[pedant]
equinox
[/pedant]
Other Comments by Geoff
36. Comment #169672 by General Friit on April 26, 2008 at 2:13 pm
Burnt with an electric cross? You lucky bastards they must think the sun shines out your arse!
Corporal punishment was only banned in Scottish schools around 20 years ago. This consisted of a piece of stiff leather, 2 foot in length about a quarter of inch thick, with 2 to 3 thongs at the busines end and was refered to as the strap, belt or tawse. Punishment was adminstered across your outstreched hand,for brawling, talking in class, not knowing your times table,teacher was in a bad mood that day,generally anything. Try telling that to the kids today and they won't believe you. Apparently kids in England got caned, but they are a soft lot.
Seriously though, several kids are branded and nothing happens at that point. I'd be down to the school with the cops in tow if my kid came home branded.
Friit
Other Comments by General Friit
37. Comment #169680 by ofir on April 26, 2008 at 2:35 pm
He's lucky he wasn't my teacher. Serious car problems, stained clothes, broken chair legs and constant ridicule would have made him quit.If he did this to one of my children I will be in court in a second sorting out a mortgage-free future for my family at the school's expense.
Other Comments by ofir
38. Comment #169703 by Tagred on April 26, 2008 at 3:58 pm
6. Comment #168712 by Adam Morrison on April 25, 2008 at 10:03 amOr for assault at the least
Well, he should be up on charges for burning crosses into peoples arms.
Other Comments by Tagred
39. Comment #169830 by Shuggy on April 26, 2008 at 10:59 pm
Burning crosses into children's arms sounds utterly off the wall, but also very easy to prove. Let's just see photographs of the crosses. Other Comments by Shuggy
40. Comment #169844 by gcujimmy on April 27, 2008 at 12:27 am
Re the meaning of Easter.
Try spelling it OESTRE and you find it predates Christianity by a long way. The following is from a google search....
The young God at this time is young and strong, but not yet aware of the responsibilities he will take on, or his impending death at his own hand. It's hard to see in this capricious young buck, the god who will sacrifice himself that others may live and the wheel ever turn.
Some symbols for this time are eggs, rabbits and spring flowers. These symbols are all representative of fertility and new life. The idea that the Earth was hatched from an egg is widespread throughout the world. The Celts believed that the egg was from a snake, symbol of regeneration. Rabbits are a natural symbol of fertility due to their prolific reproduction and also show a deep connection with the Earth because of their underground burrows. Traditionally, rabbits are linked to the moon and therefore the goddess.
It is very common for christianity to incorporate it,s message into already existing Pagan festivals.
Other Comments by gcujimmy
41. Comment #169850 by Roland_F on April 27, 2008 at 1:03 am
32. Comment #169439 by SimonwActually The ester eggs are more from Egypt :
The pagans believed that when their nature god (such as Tammuz, Osiris or Attis) died and was resurrected, his life went into the plants used by man as food. The matza made from the spring harvest was his new body and the wine from the grapes was his new blood.
The pagans used the paschal sacrifice to represent the sacrifice of a god or his only son, and ate eggs to represent the resurrection and rebirth of their nature god. The last supper of Jesus, similar to the last supper of Osiris commemorated at the Vernal Equinox. Easter eggs are again eaten to commemorate the resurrection of a "god" and also the "rebirth". In Egyptian mythology, Osiris was betrayed at his last supper by the evil god Set.
And there is Petra, who was the door-keeper of heaven and the afterlife ruled over by Osiris.
Everything from the Egyptian methodology rings some bells about Biblical stories ?
Virgin birth of Isis, God is giving his only son, last supper, betrayal at last supper, bread and wine as body and blood, resurrection after 3 days and finally the eggs to celebrate the resurrection at Easter, and St Peter (Petrus) is the rock and foundation of Christianity and doorkeeper of the heavens gate.
And about his article : what's wrong when the shepherd (teacher) is branding his flock (pupils) ??
Just some little burnings, just imagine the kids are naughty against their parents and not the teacher, as the Bible as unerring word of God tells us in Leviticus For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him
Other Comments by Roland_F
42. Comment #169864 by sfast57 on April 27, 2008 at 2:19 am
Comment #169447 by aquilacane on April 26, 2008 at 5:57 am: "I was probably my most verbally abusive with the religious in grade eight. My father had died a few years earlier. That really strengthened my atheism making me extremely sensitive to any religious influence...
I became this same way, though not quite as vehemently as you seem to have done, but more than twice as young as you. Mine was developed from "hands on" personal experiences with razor straps, prayer incarcerations, tree switches, perverse and demoralizing intimidations, and bible verses all combined together to terrify one tiny toddler into unquestioning faith and duty. Looking back on childhood often makes me unscrupulously angry at some of the things I see going on today. Things similar to the following:
Someone I subscribe to (can only be one of a limited few, and I keep thinking it was PZ Meyers) posted a link to a nut and a nuttress with so few scuples that whether their site is a parody (as some commentors expressed their hopes), or a true posit of biblical faith (my bet), they are promoting "closeted" child abuse. It is so frighteningly close to the viewpoint that so many of the true fundamental christians I personally know seem to uphold without question, and do truly believe. This is the address where the nut and nuttress, Paul and Linda Bucknell spew their antiquated bullshit:
http://www.foundationsforfreedom.net/index.html
Worse, this nut and nuttress have published a book that is for sale on Amazon for 18 plus American dollars and is titled: Principles and Practices of Biblical Parenting: Raising Godly Children. Here is a bad taste of what "raising godly children consists of:
God does not let His children wander away. He provides special care to keep them on the right track. Just as God disciplines his children, so a father is expected to chastise his chidren. God uses correction to properly care for His people. "For whom the Lord loves he disciplines." "Thy rod and Thy staff, they comfort me" (Psalms 23:4).
The love of a father comples him to use the rod on his child. Chastisement is rigorous work. We need to stay on top of things, be alert and attentive to what the child is doing. The faithful father does this because of his love for his child. It is very sad to see a child without discipline.
Pause for reflection:
What comes to mind when you hear the word discipline? How do your thoughts agree with the Bible's teaching?
*Pain's Reward (12:6)
If it does not hurt, it is not effective.
"And He (God) scourges every son whom He receives" (Hebrews 12:6).
Temporary pain is an essential part to correction. The word used here, 'scourge,' is very strong and indicates that, at times, chastisement needs to be very painful to accomplish its goals.
"Do not hold back discipline from the child, although you beat him with the rod, he will not die" (Proverbs 23:13).
I was under the impression that it was illegal in America to publish anything, whether by video, audio, or press, that exploits, or promotes the exploitation of children in any way. According to what I read, and in my not-so-humble opinion of their site, they are clearly promoting "closeted" child abuse. I hate closets. I had to pray in them, in the dark, out loud, for the Lord (my parents' god) to have mercy on my itty-bitty three-four-five-six-etc-year-old soul. My childhood was tormented by vicious nightmares that were filled with hosts from hells beyond imagination. Why do churches get away with promoting shit like this? Take a look at this page and see if you too don't think they are promoting "closeted" child abuse...
This is the front page of their online parenting seminar:
http://www.foundationsforfreedom.net/Topics/Parenting/Parenting00_Overview.html
The following link is the page with the notorious christian attitude of Don't spare the rod! Here's how to avoid CPS! About halfway down the page is "C. The Practical side of Chastisement", which is instructions on how to, among other things, "soundproof" your screaming child so the neighbors don't call the COPS or CPS.
http://www.foundationsforfreedom.net/Topics/Parenting/Parenting07_Discipline.html
I particularly revile the little chart near the bottom of this last page titled: Comparison Chart of Modern Mindset with Biblical Instruction on Chastistement.
Other Comments by sfast57
43. Comment #169880 by irate_atheist on April 27, 2008 at 3:17 am
Comment #169864 by sfast57 -
I would happily adopt this couple as my own children.
After all - they're bound to disobey me at some point, aren't they?
Other Comments by irate_atheist
44. Comment #173467 by Robert Carnegie on April 30, 2008 at 7:37 pm
The cross thing is kind of out of Harry Potter, I think.Before I heard that (which is quite dubious really - school students often make dreadful utterly unfounded allegations against staff), I speculated that a three-quarter size crucifix in class with "Your Name Here" was considered inappropriate, and please quote me, because I made it up completely and it would amuse me to see it travel.
Other Comments by Robert Carnegie
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Quotes of Note:
"The objections to religion are of two sorts - intellectual and moral. The intellectual objection is that there is no reason to suppose any religion true; the moral objection is that religious precepts date from a time when men were more cruel than they are and therefore tend to perpetuate inhumanities which the moral conscience of the age would otherwise outgrow."
Bertrand Russell
"Justifying space exploration because we get non-stick frying pans is like justifying music because it is good exercise for the violinists right arm."
Richard Dawkins
"Most of what we strive for in our modern life uses the apparatus of goal seeking that was originally set up to seek goals in the state of nature."
Richard Dawkins
"if you want to do evil, science provides the most powerful weapons to do evil; but equally, if you want to do good, science puts into your hands the most powerful tools to do so."
Richard Dawkins
"I am patient with stupidity, but not with those who are proud of it.."
Edith Sitwell
Other Recommended Reading
Evolution
Jean-Baptiste de Panafieu
The Secular Conscience
Austin Dacey
Read the 1st Chapter!
Before the Dawn
Nicholas Wade
Pale Blue Dot
Carl Sagan
Breaking the Spell
Daniel C. Dennett
More Books
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"If this book doesn't change the world -- we're all screwed."
-Penn (Penn & Teller)
The God Delusion
by Richard Dawkins
Over 1.5 million copies sold
DVDs
'Break the Science Barrier' DVD
'The Four Horsemen' DVD
'AAI 2007 Conference' DVD
'Root of All Evil? The Original Program' DVD
'Root of All Evil? The Uncut Interviews' DVD
'Growing Up in the Universe' DVD
Books by Richard Dawkins
The Oxford Book of Modern Science Writing
by Richard Dawkins
The Ancestor's Tale
by Richard Dawkins
The Selfish Gene
by Richard Dawkins
The Blind Watchmaker
by Richard Dawkins
Unweaving the Rainbow
by Richard Dawkins
1. Comment #168646 by bluehillside on April 25, 2008 at 8:53 am
"Last week, Middle School Principal William D. White told Freshwater to remove "all religious items" from his classroom.Freshwater agreed to take down the Ten Commandments, posters with Bible verses and Bibles on a shelf. But he refused to remove his personal Bible from his desk."
Fine - I suggest concerned parents have their kids exrcise the same right and have copies of The God Delusion on their desks.
Other Comments by bluehillside