1. Comment #175439 by Andrew Stich on May 5, 2008 at 12:22 pm

Wow. Despite the title, I couldn't have predicted the sheer plethora of fallacies and outright stupidities.

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2. Comment #175442 by MarbleMad on May 5, 2008 at 12:28 pm

So i see they're still arguing the evolution = hitler stuff on that vids comment section..

Is it only me that think eugenics matches ID theory rather better than evolution?

Yes it's a fatuous argument too but.. got to be worth throwing out there just to see if it sticks?

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3. Comment #175443 by Hooligan on May 5, 2008 at 12:30 pm

Glen Beck is such a smug, arrogant, prick.

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4. Comment #175444 by Elles on May 5, 2008 at 12:34 pm

Hm... I have a copy of "Biology for Dummies" on my bedroom floor. I know a certain speechwriter, game show host, and actor who needs it more.

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5. Comment #175445 by GBile on May 5, 2008 at 12:40 pm

A gem from part one:

There are doctors that are killing people, again, in Germany

Ben Stein and Glenn Beck apparently can utter sounds that resemble english words. But in the end these words mean nothing. Just white noise.

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6. Comment #175446 by Layla Nasreddin on May 5, 2008 at 12:40 pm

I could say something, but it would be grossly uncharitable.

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7. Comment #175447 by Dr Benway on May 5, 2008 at 12:42 pm

Sorry to be off topic, but I maded a blag like Steve, Quetz, and Anna! Hope you are proud of me. You can visit, if you want.

http://tuftedtitmouse.blogspot.com/

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8. Comment #175451 by Karlsson on May 5, 2008 at 12:47 pm

So i see they're still arguing the evolution = hitler stuff on that vids comment section..

I don't understand this argument at all... What the argument is saying is that IF evolution EQUALS evil THEN evolution EQUALS false... which is obsured!

For the sake of argument, let's say that evolution leads to nazism, racism and bloody murder, so what?! Evolution isn't an ism, it's a phenomenon!

Just - like - gravity. But we don't hear people arguing that we shouln't teach Newtons theory of gravity in schools because it leads to plane crashes and suicides from high buildings!

And i don't like that some evolutionists, like Richard Dawkins, are joining in on the debate with arguments that NO, evolution wasn't the cause of nazism...

That argumentation will to the general public look like an acceptance of the premise that if evolution leads to bad things (like nazism) then it must be wrong.

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9. Comment #175452 by MarbleMad on May 5, 2008 at 12:53 pm

>I don't understand this argument at all... What the >argument is saying is that IF evolution EQUALS evil >THEN evolution EQUALS false... which is obsured!

you are quite correct it is not a logical argument but it doesn't act as a logical argument. It's an appeal to the heart

"please don't teach our kiddywinks this nasty evil idea - even if it is true".

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10. Comment #175454 by kaiserkriss on May 5, 2008 at 12:57 pm

GBile:

If what you quoted is true,"There are doctors that are killing people, again, in Germany", then this could be construed as racism and thus libelous.

Or, is it still politically correct to refer to every living German as a nazi and thus get away with it, not only in forum of public opinion, but also legally? jcw

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11. Comment #175456 by Stephen Maxwell on May 5, 2008 at 1:03 pm

Watching now. There's something really annoying about someone talking about themselves in the third person don't you think?

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12. Comment #175460 by ChrisMcL on May 5, 2008 at 1:11 pm

I saw this thing as it was being telecast. Talk about the blind leading the blind; here's the ignorant leading the ignorant.

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13. Comment #175462 by EvidenceOnly on May 5, 2008 at 1:15 pm

The list of organizations or groups in which absolutely no intelligence is allowed is growing rapidly, proving Einstein's statement: "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."

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14. Comment #175470 by Spinoza on May 5, 2008 at 1:28 pm

Hmm. Mr. Beck, your inane (read: retarded, ignorant) comments about Peter Singer lead me to conclude that you are the worst person in the world.

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15. Comment #175471 by Hostile2012 on May 5, 2008 at 1:30 pm

AWWW the stupid it burns!!

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16. Comment #175472 by mundusvultdecipi on May 5, 2008 at 1:31 pm

Sorry to interrupt the thread but thought you all might be interested in having a look at Guardian Comment Is Free, Terry Sanderson of the National Secular Society has a piece on the Catholic Church seeking exemption from gay adoption regulations in the UK, it is called "A Better Blair Legacy" at:

http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/terry_sanderson/2008/05/a_better_blair_legacy.html

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17. Comment #175475 by Gunnar on May 5, 2008 at 1:34 pm

Isn't there a law against freakshows like this?

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18. Comment #175476 by room101 on May 5, 2008 at 1:34 pm

Beck credits himself as being open-minded - not necessarily pandering to either the conservatives or democrats. But he's not fooling anyone. He is a FOX news O'Reilly-esque right wing nut-job who happens to be on CNN.

Interesting how he never seems to have in-depth interviews with science-literate people who can refute Stein's BS in 5 minutes.

BTW - CNN.com had an essay from Beck today where he lambasts Obama for waiting so long to come out and denounce his former pastor, Reverend Wright, regarding Wright's ludicrous comments the past couple of weeks. Interesting how Beck doesn't mention at all McCain's connections with Hagee or every other president's connection with Falwell, Robertson and Graham, all of whom have exclaimed equally fowl things - if not worse - than Wright.

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19. Comment #175477 by skepticato on May 5, 2008 at 1:39 pm

Karlsson: What you're saying makes sense, but unfortunately we're dealing with people so dumb that they are completely unable to process rational arguments.

When dealing with such people, one must first try to pacify them and lead them away from panic-causing words ("nazi", "hitler", etc). (kind of like the stoning scene in Life of Brian - context makes no difference - whatever you do, don't say "Jehova").

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20. Comment #175478 by Apathy personified on May 5, 2008 at 1:41 pm

Is this worth my time, or will such a large concentration of stupidity and lies cause my head implode violently?

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21. Comment #175480 by Diacanu on May 5, 2008 at 1:41 pm

MarbleMad-

It's an appeal to the heart

"please don't teach our kiddywinks this nasty evil idea - even if it is true".

I don't know how even that works.

If something in science or political theory told me to be evil, I'd still have a moral sense that would rebel against it, so the very existence of my moral sense would nullfy the reasoning of anything that told me to be evil.
And then we'd be left with having to scientifically define the moral sense.
Which indeed scientists are doing.
Supernaturalism will never cut it as the default answer.

Indeed, the biggest thing used through history to get people to act counter to their moral intuitions has BEEN religion.
Abraham and Isaac, anyone?

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22. Comment #175483 by Spinoza on May 5, 2008 at 1:43 pm

Mr. Beck clearly hasn't actually READ anything Peter Singer has written.

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23. Comment #175485 by Peacebeuponme on May 5, 2008 at 1:45 pm

Abraham and Isaac, anyone?

Oh come on, Diacanu. You can't just cherry-pick stories to quote out of context.

And anyway, the whole point of that story is that Abraham didn't sacrifice Isaac. Don't you get it?

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24. Comment #175486 by kaiserkriss on May 5, 2008 at 1:47 pm

Now that I've had my Maalox after watching part 1, and still feeling nauseated by the son of Jacob (Benjamin)drivel, I can't believe this guy was ever elected to valedictorian at Yale. It must have been a very bad year.

As for his assertion of kill pills prescribed by German doctors, where is the evidence? His evidence at least in Part one was based on hearsay and probably gross exaggeration, once again demonizing German doctors and equating them with his favorite whipping boys, the Nazis.

As far as I know, assisted suicide is illegal in Germany, but legal in Belgium, Switzerland, Netherlands , and interestingly enough in the state of OREGON. Is Benny unable to tell the difference between Begium, Switzerland , Netherlands and Germany, or is he once again trying to knowingly spread false gossip for the sake of his position to his undereducated ID friends?

Okay, this is an ad hom, but what a douche bag! jcw

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25. Comment #175487 by al-rawandi on May 5, 2008 at 1:49 pm

Spinoza,






I have watched Beck a few times. And it is clear that he hasn't read much of anything. It is hard to read while constantly shouting your opinions at anyone dumb enough to listen.

He did make Ann Coulter look foolish once when she said "Jews will be perfected, once they accept Jesus and become Christians".

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26. Comment #175491 by Diacanu on May 5, 2008 at 1:50 pm

Peacebeaponme-

the whole point of that story is that Abraham didn't sacrifice Isaac.

Yeah, only after God stepped in saying "kidding! Kidding! I was fuckin' with ya, man!".

Don't you get it?

I guess not.

Other Comments by Diacanu

27. Comment #175492 by info_dump on May 5, 2008 at 1:52 pm

Knowing what we know about the Dawkins interview (for example), and how they edited it and put his comments out of context... when you watch Stein discuss it here you can see him flat-out lying about it all. It's beyond "stretching the truth" or any cute little euphemism - he's just bald-face lying.

That's remarkable to me. I don't often get to see that level of outright dishonesty in real time, and know exactly which points are false.

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28. Comment #175494 by Geodesic17 on May 5, 2008 at 1:57 pm

Richard Nixon must be spinning in his grave.

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29. Comment #175495 by MrPickwick on May 5, 2008 at 1:58 pm

6 minutes. No more stomach.

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30. Comment #175496 by chauvinj on May 5, 2008 at 1:59 pm

That's the first time I've ever seen anyone whip out a retractable back scratcher to scratch themselves mid-interview...

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31. Comment #175497 by Peacebeuponme on May 5, 2008 at 2:00 pm

Diacanu

Yeah, only after God stepped in saying "kidding! Kidding! I was fuckin' with ya, man!".

God could not have been just "fuckin' with" Abraham. He is perfectly loving and just. You're just not getting the message because your mind is closed.

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32. Comment #175498 by Diacanu on May 5, 2008 at 2:02 pm

Peacebeaponme-

You're just not getting the message because your mind is closed.

Like David Robertson and his sunrise.

Ohhh, I've had an epiphany!

He loved us first!

*Eats a handful of blue pills*

Other Comments by Diacanu

33. Comment #175499 by burkbraun on May 5, 2008 at 2:03 pm

This discussion and the first film clip prompted me to think of a good answer to the "hope" question. What if a very nice lady from Nigeria offered you the hope of getting a million dollars?? Hope is something to evaluate very carefully, not something to pick and choose from a spiritual smorgasbord.

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34. Comment #175500 by Quine on May 5, 2008 at 2:06 pm

As for Stein's remark about reception of his movie by believers, see my comment on the Open Letter thread.

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35. Comment #175504 by Szkeptik on May 5, 2008 at 2:14 pm

I'm not sure I want to watch this.

I mean what useful information could I possibly gain from it? Watching this would only take the time from more information dense activities. Like taking a crap or something.

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36. Comment #175505 by exquisitetruth on May 5, 2008 at 2:15 pm

Peacebeuponme,

I smell a troll.

3/10

You lose points for the unconvincing self righteousness.

Other Comments by exquisitetruth

37. Comment #175507 by ThoughtsonCommonToad on May 5, 2008 at 2:17 pm

*Eats a handful of blue pills*

That is the perfect analogy.

Morpheus:
You take the blue pill and the story ends. You wake in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe.
You take the red pill and you stay in Wonderland and I show you how deep the rabbit-hole goes.

Remember, all I am offering is the truth, nothing more.

Other Comments by ThoughtsonCommonToad

38. Comment #175511 by Peacebeuponme on May 5, 2008 at 2:21 pm

Diacanu

Ohhh, I've had an epiphany!

Most popular places for an epiphany:

1. The Grand Canyon
2. Kenai Peninsula during an aurora borealis
3. Hiking in the Andes

Least popular:

1. Standing reading a quarter-folded paper at 7:30 on a packed tube train
2. Watching the evening news
3. In the queue at the supermarket

God always chooses the right setting when he speaks to you.

Other Comments by Peacebeuponme

39. Comment #175517 by Peacebeuponme on May 5, 2008 at 2:24 pm

exquisitetruth

Peacebeuponme,

I smell a troll.

3/10

You lose points for the unconvincing self righteousness.

Almost. I'm being...sarcastic? ironic? The (bad) joke's on the theist. Check out my previous posts: been around for a while and 100% atheist.

Plus...a theist using the name "Peacebeuponme" would show them up a little, non?

Other Comments by Peacebeuponme

40. Comment #175519 by exquisitetruth on May 5, 2008 at 2:30 pm

Peacebeuponme,

In a world where I so often find myself saying "Are they for real?!", or, "Are you ****ing kidding me?"

It's nice to see, for once, someone who is not real, and is actually kidding.

Other Comments by exquisitetruth

41. Comment #175522 by Peacebeuponme on May 5, 2008 at 2:36 pm

exquisitetruth

In a world where I so often find myself saying "Are they for real?!", or, "Are you ****ing kidding me?"

Some of the theists on here hold positions that I couldn't make up - my posts just then were pretty unremarkable in comparison.

Check out Wooter/Clearmind for the absolute gold standard of bollocks. However, ADH, Omega369, Artful_Dodger do pretty well. Most of these don't post now as they don't seem to do to well trying to respond to searching quesions.

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42. Comment #175524 by exquisitetruth on May 5, 2008 at 2:38 pm

Ah, Artful_Dodger is legend.

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43. Comment #175525 by mordacious1 on May 5, 2008 at 2:38 pm

The first thing stein says is "I love meeting people". Good, because I've been wanting to meet him in an alley for awhile now. I'd bring my club, but I don't think it would be necessary. By the way, do you think he wrote Nixon's "I'm not a crook!" speech?

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44. Comment #175527 by Spinoza on May 5, 2008 at 2:40 pm

Yeah, Al-Rawandi, it's just sad... in particular with Singer... who came up in a conversation I had about a month ago...

As a philosopher, it pains me that people just don't understand the discipline at all...

So anyway, I was talking to a bunch of students, and one of them said "Oh, I don't like philosophy at all." And I said: "What (the fuck!)? That seems kind of an unfair generalization. Why?"

And she said: "Have you heard of Peter Singer?"

And I said: "Sure. And though I disagree with him on the grounds that utilitarianism fails on meta-ethical grounds, he's a really smart guy and his positions are extremely well thought out."

And she goes: "Well, he's disgusting. He thinks we should retroactively abort children!"

And I said: "Do you know what his actual argument was?"

And she said: "No. I just think he's wrong to say that."

And I said: "Yeah, well, his argument isn't that we SHOULD retroactively abort CHILDREN. His point was that GIVEN that there are certain cases where the suffering of the child is inevitably so great, and it is obvious that the child will not survive adolescence, it might sometimes be prudent to allow parents the choice to "abort" up to 28 days after birth. The reason he gives a 28 day buffer AFTER the pregnancy is over is that methods for determining certain cases during the pregnancy are not 100% accurate, and have resulted, in the past, in errors where healthy pregnancies were terminated. You have to keep in mind that he's not saying 'Anyone who doesn't want their baby should be allowed to kill it or have it killed'. That WOULD be stupid. His argument is, rather, that in cases like Siamese twins joined at the top of the head, in severe mental-handicaps (i.e. severe Downs Syndrome, etc), or terminal cancers, such that the infant (and IF it survives past infancy, the child) will be in and out of hospital chronically, suffering greatly through pain, and never have a chance at anything anywhere near resembling a "normal" life, and is terminally ill such that they will die in childhood ANYWAY, then it is the morally responsible thing to do to weigh the suffering and if it is too great, to end the child's suffering BEFORE it has developed reflective self-consciousness (language).

It's an extremely well thought out argument, and an extremely tough call.

His point is that often what happens is that well-meaning parents cause their children to suffer well beyond any imaginable levels, and the child ends up dying in early childhood ANYWAY (and so, in many cases, is faced with the specter of an immanent death, along with chronic pain and discomfort etc etc etc), and that is morally reprehensible.


... In any case, it is an argument WORTH CONSIDERING ON ITS MERITS.

I realized something quite quickly, so after explaining all this, I mentioned: "Oh, but the reason you don't like him is that you're a Christian, right?... you believe in a soul put in the person by God at conception?"

And her reply: "Yes."

Me: "Oh. Well that explains why you don't like philosophy."

... conversation over. So stupid.

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45. Comment #175529 by german-atheist on May 5, 2008 at 2:41 pm

i wonder,if writing a speach for nixon,predicting america`s independents of foreign fuel by the early 90s,realy makes him a credible expert in economics,evolution or anything else.

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46. Comment #175530 by robotaholic on May 5, 2008 at 2:42 pm

I think his name should be Ben Frankenstein

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47. Comment #175532 by burkbraun on May 5, 2008 at 2:43 pm

"I loved Nixon like a father" Part 3, 5 minutes

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48. Comment #175536 by dan001 on May 5, 2008 at 2:49 pm

I presume that the comment by Richard about a signature in the DNA was referring to the possibility that we may have once been visited by aliens who left a message or that panspermia that was instigated by an alien intelligence.

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49. Comment #175537 by mordacious1 on May 5, 2008 at 2:51 pm

Not to steal from Al Franken, but shouldn't this be called "Lies, and the Lying Liars that Tell Them"?

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50. Comment #175544 by rod-the-farmer on May 5, 2008 at 2:59 pm

OK, this is an order. Do...not...watch...this...video..or ...your...brain...will..suffer..permanent...damage

Stupidest thing I ever wasted an hour on, waiting desperately for something about Expelled. Gel Beck recommends it without ever saying why.

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