Skip to Main Content (access key 1)
Skip to Search (access key 2)
Skip to Search GO (access key 3)
Skip to comments (access key 4)
Skip to navigation (access key 5)
Skip to top of page (access key 6)
Friday, June 27, 2008 | Reason : In the News | print version Print | Comments

Document Psychiatrists: Least Religious But Most Interested In Patients' Religion

by Science Daily

Thanks to justwondering for the link.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/12/071210163123.htm


Psychiatrists: Least Religious But Most Interested In Patients' Religion

ScienceDaily (Dec. 11, 2007) — Although psychiatrists are among the least religious physicians, they seem to be the most interested in the religious and spiritual dimensions of their patients, according to survey data published in the December issue of the American Journal of Psychiatry.

Ever since Freud described religious faith as an illusion and a neurosis there has been tension and at times hostility between religion and psychiatry. Psychiatrists are less religious on average than other physicians, according to previously published data from the same survey, and non-psychiatrist physicians who are religious are less willing to refer their patients to psychiatrists.

This report found that although they may be less religious than other physicians, psychiatrists appear to be more comfortable and have more experience addressing religious or spiritual concerns in the clinical setting.

"Recent efforts have begun to bridge the divide between religion and psychiatry," said study author Farr Curlin, MD, assistant professor of medicine at the University of Chicago. "In the past, manuals of psychiatry tended to identify religiosity with mental illness. Now they distinguish normal religious and spiritual ideas and behaviors from those that result from mental illness."

"Moreover," he added, "several recent studies have found that religiosity is often associated with improved mental health outcomes such as quicker recovery from depression. Now most training programs teach developing psychiatrists about the potentially beneficial influence of religion and spirituality on patients' mental health."

For this paper, the researchers examined results from a survey of 100 psychiatrists and 1,044 non-psychiatrists from across the United States. Respondents were asked their opinions about the relationship between religion and health and about how they address religious and spiritual issues in their clinical practices.

"Is the influence of religion/spirituality on health positive or negative?" was one question. "Considering your experience, how often to you think religion/spirituality causes guilt, anxiety or other negative emotions that lead to increased patient suffering?"

The researchers found that psychiatrists are twice as likely (46% versus 23%) as other physicians to say that patients often mention spiritual issues. They are also much more likely to both say that it is appropriate to ask patients about spiritual concerns (93% vs 53%) and that they do inquire (87% vs 49%).

The differences are striking with respect to the mental health conditions most often encountered by non-psychiatrists. Only 14 percent of non-psychiatrist physicians say they often ask patients suffering from anxiety or depression about spiritual issues, compared to 44 percent of psychiatrists.

"Psychiatrists and non-psychiatrists alike tend to say that the influence of religion on health is generally positive," said Curlin. Almost all physicians agreed that religion and spirituality often give patients a positive, hopeful state of mind. More than 75 percent of psychiatrists and non-psychiatrist agreed that religion "often or always" helps patients cope with their illnesses.

About a third of both groups, however, reported that religion sometimes leads patients not to comply with their doctors' recommendations and to avoid taking responsibility for their own health. Psychiatrists were almost twice as likely as other physicians to say that the influence of religion on health is equally positive and negative (21% versus 12%), and were more likely to say that religion/spirituality sometimes causes guilt, anxiety, or other negative emotions that lead to increased patient suffering (82% versus 44%).

During a clinical encounter, however, psychiatrists appear to be more comfortable talking to their patients about spiritual issues. They are more likely than other physicians to believe it is appropriate for a physician to discuss such issues when a patient brings them up (97% versus 91%) and to regularly encourage patients in their own religious ideas and experiences (83% versus 73%).

When patients do bring up spiritual concerns, psychiatrists are less likely to try to change the subject (9% versus 26%), and they are less likely feel uncomfortable discussing such issues or to be worried about offending patients. Psychiatrists rarely pray with patients, however; only 6% say they do so sometimes, compared to 20% of other physicians.

This study, the first of its kind, "highlights the extraordinary silence in the literature regarding religion and spirituality as both healing and pathologic elements in the lives of psychiatric patients," noted psychiatrist Burr Eichelman, MD, PhD, of the University of Wisconsin, in an editorial.

The results "surprised us," said Curlin. "Among physicians in general, those who are less religious are generally less likely to believe it is appropriate to discuss spiritual issues," he noted. "Yet we find that psychiatrists are at the same time the least religious physicians and the physicians most comfortable addressing patients' spiritual concerns."

Why would psychiatrists be so open to patients' religious and spiritual issues? The researchers suggest that it may be because several mental illnesses are known to be associated with hyper-religiosity, and because psychiatrists are at times asked to evaluate patients' decisional capacity when religious beliefs collide with medical advice.

"In aggregate," Curlin said, "although psychiatrists may not agree with the claims of religion, they often witness its powerful effects on patients' mental health, both for good and for ill."

That psychiatrists pay attention to patients' spiritual concerns "is welcome news," he said. "By paying attention to patients' spiritual concerns, psychiatrists may help patients identify the resources in their own religious traditions that can them cope with the suffering caused by mental illness."

Psychiatry, Eichelman noted, has developed "a fairly substantial curriculum on another previously taboo life process -- human sexuality -- but we have only recently ventured into prescribing religious or spiritual 'awareness' in our training programs."

"The division between psychiatry and religion may be narrowing," Curlin said. "The historical antagonism appears to be waning."

The Greenwall Foundation and the Robert Wood Johnson Clinical Scholars Program funded this research. Additional authors include Ryan Lawrence, Shaun Odell, Marshall Chin, and John Lantos of the University of Chicago, and Harold Koenig and Keith Meador of Duke University.

Comments 1 - 47 of 47 |

Reload Comments | Back to Top | Page Numbers

1. Comment #200512 by 35bluejacket on June 27, 2008 at 6:52 pm

It makes me wonder how many psychiatrists have helped tarot card readers out of depression and back on the business road, or sharing the feelings about the refrigerator size diamond buried in the back yard. (S. Harris)

Other Comments by 35bluejacket

2. Comment #200515 by Nick6742 on June 27, 2008 at 7:04 pm

 avatarIn my ethics class at med school this spring we had a panel discussion on the role of faith in medicine. I have the mp3 if anyone wants to listen, I just need an easy way to distribute it. It offers a look at how physicians (American physicians anyway) use their philosophical view of god in directing their practice. I'm advocating the atheist point of view in the recording. Post here if you would like to listen.

In the aftermath I found that about 1/3 of the class is a Dawkinsian type of atheist, about 1/4 are religious, most often devout, and the rest are deists or of the 'faith in faith' persuasion.

Other Comments by Nick6742

3. Comment #200516 by PristinePanda on June 27, 2008 at 7:11 pm

 avatarThat does sound interesting- definitely worth giving a listen. I'm not sure how you would go about distributing it, though.

Other Comments by PristinePanda

4. Comment #200517 by Nick6742 on June 27, 2008 at 7:12 pm

 avatarI can put it on rapidshare, but that isn't the friendliest of sites. Any ideas are welcome.

Other Comments by Nick6742

5. Comment #200522 by julianstirling on June 27, 2008 at 7:31 pm

Make a blank screened video with it as the soundtrack and put it on YouTube? Easy enough with windows movie maker, but would have to do it in 10 minute segments.

Other Comments by julianstirling

6. Comment #200524 by Enlightenme.. on June 27, 2008 at 7:45 pm

 avatarJeez, how hard can this be?

Recreative sex, and self pleasuring - OK or bad?

Hesitant response = help required.

Other Comments by Enlightenme..

7. Comment #200537 by 35bluejacket on June 27, 2008 at 8:33 pm

If it is true; that the most sane person is a person devoid of delusion, then why don't these learned psychiatrists see this? Have they been that poorly taught? Is our education system that bad?

Other Comments by 35bluejacket

8. Comment #200538 by TeraBrat on June 27, 2008 at 8:34 pm

"Yet we find that psychiatrists are at the same time the least religious physicians and the physicians most comfortable addressing patients' spiritual concerns."


It makes perfect sense to me. Psychiatrists treat mental illnesses...

Other Comments by TeraBrat

9. Comment #200540 by mordacious1 on June 27, 2008 at 8:44 pm

If the god-stuff really worked, why would these people need to turn to psychiatrists?

Other Comments by mordacious1

10. Comment #200541 by justwondering on June 27, 2008 at 8:44 pm

 avatarWhat they fail to mention is a psychiatrist's hesitance to talk to a morbidly mentally ill patient about spiritual concerns. (Any truly sane shrink wouldn't bring religious concerns up in treating someone who's bat sh*t nutty and locked up.) It would be interesting to hear them address why they wouldn't!

This is sending out the wrong message. It's saying it's somehow mentally healthy to address your emotional problems with religion.

Other Comments by justwondering

11. Comment #200542 by mordacious1 on June 27, 2008 at 8:47 pm

Dr.: So what do you think about god?

Patient: I think about alot of things, why?


edit: Do you guys get this joke, or did it fall flat?

Other Comments by mordacious1

12. Comment #200546 by TeraBrat on June 27, 2008 at 9:03 pm

Both.

Don't joke about the god delusion it hurts my feelings :-p

Other Comments by TeraBrat

13. Comment #200547 by Herbert on June 27, 2008 at 9:15 pm

I would rather be depressed than deluded.

Other Comments by Herbert

14. Comment #200555 by Dr Benway on June 27, 2008 at 9:51 pm

 avatarI'd rather have a bottle in front of me...

Other Comments by Dr Benway

15. Comment #200557 by mordacious1 on June 27, 2008 at 10:08 pm

Boy, tough crowd tonight.

Tera

Sometimes I wonder about your sense of humor, sometimes I don't.

Other Comments by mordacious1

16. Comment #200558 by TeraBrat on June 27, 2008 at 10:12 pm

mordacious1,

Very few people really "get" me.

Other Comments by TeraBrat

17. Comment #200567 by epeeist on June 27, 2008 at 10:51 pm

 avatarComment #200555 by Dr Benway
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me...
To complete the joke for those who don't know it.

Than a pre-frontal lobotomy.

Other Comments by epeeist

18. Comment #200568 by black wolf on June 27, 2008 at 11:05 pm

 avatarDr.: "What does God tell you when you speak with him?"
Patient: "You don't exist, so why would I tell you?"

How is that one?

Other Comments by black wolf

19. Comment #200571 by HAMMERHEAD on June 27, 2008 at 11:13 pm

This very disconcerting to me. On one hand, it seems obvious that religion and the belief thereof is a serious problem and can be very damaging to the psyche. On the other hand, it seems that psychiatrists are trying to encourage religion as a band-aid to overcome symptoms of deeper issues. That scenario sounds like the makings of a vicious cycle (Maybe if I just got more involved in the church and fully surrender myself to Jesus, then I'll really be happy...).

Other Comments by HAMMERHEAD

20. Comment #200579 by black wolf on June 27, 2008 at 11:43 pm

 avatarLast December, a German woman killed her five children because she thought a demon was telling her it would harass her and them. She decided to take the children away from the demon by taking them to the afterlife along with herself. Her suicide attempt failed, she voluntarily went to get psychiatric aid and is currently in court, charged with manslaughter. She has been diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia.
The irony is that the family's local church held a memorial service - the same church that doesn't like to admit it teaches that demons are real. This sounds insensitive from me, and we don't know if it was religious teaching that inspired her delusion, or if she got the religious delusions after her mentality started breaking down. But I still think these tenets are the elephant in the room.

Other Comments by black wolf

21. Comment #200583 by Nick6742 on June 28, 2008 at 12:08 am

 avatarThe video is up on google video if anyone is interested: medical student panel on faith in medicine.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4814737602943516661&hl=en

p.s. I know I mangled the title of 'Origin', shameful, but these things happen.

Other Comments by Nick6742

22. Comment #200644 by Enlightenme.. on June 28, 2008 at 2:53 am

 avatar"we have only recently ventured into prescribing religious or spiritual 'awareness' in our training programs"

Like, just don't go there?
Open up that whole can of worms.

It sounds like the Elephant in the room has been left in peace for far too long.

Other Comments by Enlightenme..

23. Comment #200660 by Pyllyri on June 28, 2008 at 3:45 am

@Nick6742

Thanks for putting that up, definitely very interesting to listen. And you were laugh out loud funny there too, so thumbs up!

Other Comments by Pyllyri

24. Comment #200667 by mmurray on June 28, 2008 at 4:02 am

 avatar
The results "surprised us," said Curlin. "Among physicians in general, those who are less religious are generally less likely to believe it is appropriate to discuss spiritual issues," he noted. "Yet we find that psychiatrists are at the same time the least religious physicians and the physicians most comfortable addressing patients' spiritual concerns."


Why would this be a surprise? Psychiatrists deal with what is going on in peoples minds. Religion goes on in peoples minds.

Michael

Other Comments by mmurray

25. Comment #200673 by steveroot on June 28, 2008 at 4:42 am

 avatar
14. Comment #200555 by Dr Benway on June 27, 2008 at 9:51 pm
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me...


17. Comment #200567 by epeeist on June 27, 2008 at 10:51 pm

...Than a pre-frontal lobotomy.

Putting it all together with one tiny change:
I'd rather have a free bottle in front of me
than a pre-frontal lobotomy..

This from my Vincent-owning friends. :-)
Ste5e

Other Comments by steveroot

26. Comment #200700 by Nick6742 on June 28, 2008 at 6:10 am

 avatarThanks, I'm glad you liked it!

Other Comments by Nick6742

27. Comment #200707 by Herbert on June 28, 2008 at 6:22 am

Nick, you made me proud. Sounds like you will make a wonderful physician.

Other Comments by Herbert

28. Comment #200713 by Mathesis on June 28, 2008 at 6:32 am

The main benefit of religion on mental heath has nothing to do with the specifics of the belief or whether or not the person believes in God. It has more to do with shared values within a social context which offers the psychological support of feeling connected with other human beings. Also, and generally speaking, having any principles, perspective, values, world view can help you (as opposed to having nothing in your head). It does not matter if you believe in god or not. Atheist Buddhists get the same benefit from their religion.

Other Comments by Mathesis

29. Comment #200776 by moderndaythomas on June 28, 2008 at 8:22 am

 avatar
Almost all physicians agreed that religion and spirituality often give patients a positive, hopeful state of mind. More than 75 percent of psychiatrists and non-psychiatrist agreed that religion "often or always" helps patients cope with their illnesses.


Ignorance is bliss.

I find my solace in a hot meal and a frosty mug of Alexander Keith's. Then on contemplation, I take measures to improve things.

The Simpsons help too.

Other Comments by moderndaythomas

30. Comment #200783 by Bonzai on June 28, 2008 at 8:33 am

Nick6742

I can put it on rapidshare, but that isn't the friendliest of sites.


How about filefactory or mihd ?

Other Comments by Bonzai

31. Comment #200785 by moderndaythomas on June 28, 2008 at 8:39 am

 avatarOn further contemplation (beer-less I might add) I have to wonder about the degree that one must take this as a serious sample of the general population.

"several recent studies have found that religiosity is often associated with improved mental health outcomes such as quicker recovery from depression. Now most training programs teach developing psychiatrists about the potentially beneficial influence of religion and spirituality on patients' mental health."


I don't feel the need to, or have ever felt the need to see a psychiatrist. I'm confident and at peace with the idea of solving my own problems.
And I've seen some shit!
I'm also sure that many others are too.

My point is this. Are the religious then more likely to consult a psychiatrist than the agnostic or atheist?

Are they more needy and misguided?

Are they the more likely to seek others to guide them?

I think that the answer would most probably be yes.

Then having said that, would it be in a psychiatrists best interests to correct this problem?

Other Comments by moderndaythomas

32. Comment #200791 by Bonzai on June 28, 2008 at 8:45 am

So why are some of us so dismissive of the notion that religion may have some utility and try so desperately to refute it? Indeed some of the posts above,--and reactions from some atheists whenever the topic comes up,-- can only be described as desperate.

Religion is a coping mechanism for many believers, it is hardly surprising that some people derive emotional benefits from it. I also don't see a necessary connection between having some belief in God and performing human sacrifice. People who try to dismiss the idea with extreme examples like the mother killing her children because she suspected that they were possessed by demons are setting up strawmen and it illustrates a poor understanding of human beings.

Other Comments by Bonzai

33. Comment #200798 by Bonzai on June 28, 2008 at 8:49 am

My point is this. Are the religious then more likely to consult a psychiatrist than the agnostic or atheist?

Are they more needy and misguided?

Are they the more likely to seek others to guide them?

I think that the answer would most probably be yes.


Sure. Agreed 100%, but we are talking about people with all their vulnerabilities and shortcomings and not some idealized logical robots. Religion to most believer addresses their emotional needs, it is not an intellectual exercise. To say that people should not believe because religion is a poor way to understand the world is true but missing the point.

Other Comments by Bonzai

34. Comment #200800 by monoape on June 28, 2008 at 8:52 am

 avatarNick,

Thanks for the audio - very interesting - and well played by you.

I'm slightly horrified that there's a (trainee) doctor that doesn't understand the basics of evolution (the eye). How is it possible that someone can get in to med school and not know something so fundamental to biology?

I just pray I never get her as my physician.

Other Comments by monoape

35. Comment #200803 by Bonzai on June 28, 2008 at 8:53 am

How is it possible that someone can get in to med school and not know something so fundamental to biology?


Very easy if you know what they teach in med school.

Other Comments by Bonzai

36. Comment #200807 by moderndaythomas on June 28, 2008 at 8:59 am

 avatarBonzai

I realize that I'm generalising here. And getting a little help irregardless of the presence of faith when you need it is never a bad thing.

But if you're needy you're needy, and those that ardently seek religious guidance for purpose and identity, will no doubt consider other sources of guidance.
And a psychiatrist that accomodates these belief engines will have more immediate success with their patients. But what about the long run?

Other Comments by moderndaythomas

37. Comment #200812 by Border Collie on June 28, 2008 at 9:09 am

Psychs will use whatever path works to build rapport with their patients. Sometimes it's religion, sometimes it's not. But, religion is so pervasive, it's almost unavoidable. It could be any subject, however.

'it may be because several mental illnesses are known to be associated with hyper-religiosity' ... Truer words were never spoken and I don't think the 'hyper' part is even necessary.

Other Comments by Border Collie

38. Comment #200817 by Nick6742 on June 28, 2008 at 9:14 am

 avatarI hope you never get her either.

Our curriculum (at Albany and throughout the US)is full of the evidence of evolution and the professors teach it appropriately. She and her ilk are willfully ignorant, they've been presented with the evidence and facts and have chosen to ignore them for superstition.

Med school is a big attraction for faith-heads, it lets them feel like they're doing the G-man's work while attaining social status and $. They learn about evolution enough to pass a test and then pretend that they never heard direct refutations of arguments for ID.

Other Comments by Nick6742

39. Comment #200881 by robsica on June 28, 2008 at 11:36 am

This is exactly as I would have expected. Instead of wasting time engaging the superficiality of the doctrinal superstructure of their religious patients, a psychiatrist is typically going to be far more interested in the needs and interests involved that sustain it, regarding it as semiotics rather than substance.

Other Comments by robsica

40. Comment #200885 by TeraBrat on June 28, 2008 at 11:44 am

Our curriculum (at Albany and throughout the US)is full of the evidence of evolution and the professors teach it appropriately. She and her ilk are willfully ignorant, they've been presented with the evidence and facts and have chosen to ignore them for superstition.


She didn't even know what her views on Christianity were except that Jesus came down from heaven for HER!!!

Other Comments by TeraBrat

41. Comment #200903 by Nick6742 on June 28, 2008 at 12:38 pm

 avatarNot to mention that she thinks 'god gave us aspirin!'

Here I thought it was Friedrich Bayer and the willow tree.

Other Comments by Nick6742

42. Comment #200908 by notsobad on June 28, 2008 at 12:53 pm

 avatar
It makes perfect sense to me. Psychiatrists treat mental illnesses...

(:

Other Comments by notsobad

43. Comment #201015 by elad-usa on June 28, 2008 at 6:51 pm

Greetings, all. This is my first posting on this site, although I have been an avid reader here for quite some time now. And the first thing I'd like to say is: thank you all so much! This site, and others like it, have served as virtual life-lines to me for the past several years, and I am deeply grateful.

The reason I'm posting here in response to this particular article is that, although not a psychiatrist, I have been working as a psychologist/psychotherapist in a state psychiatric hospital for the past 27 years, often with individuals who are deeply delusional and otherwise psychotic. So I do have a few thoughts to share regarding why a non-theistic/secular psychologist would be interested in a patient's religious beliefs.

It is clear that an individual's thoughts and belief-systems, driven by past conditioning and ongoing needs, serve as a central force in shaping their experiences, emotions, behaviors, and ways of interacting with others and the world in general. Even mind-blowingly (sorry for the pun) delusional beliefs serve some intrapsychic purposes and fill some emotional needs for the individual, although "hollow" and built on foundations of illusion, irrationality, and pervasive cognitive distortions which serve to protect and perpetuate the delusion at all costs (which, of course, are ultimately quite high). So, in order to have any chance of serving as a catalyst for lasting positive change, the therapist must first respectfully "get one foot into" and understand as fully as possible this person's delusional belief-system, as this is a central "lens" through which their world is shaped, the "rules" by which their life is played â€" and it is only by working from within their system that substantive change can be "sparked." The delusion will not be given up easily, and perhaps only to a limited degree and in certain facets, so to speak â€" yet, such changes in critical areas can indeed result in dramatic and positive changes, which can "ripple out" and "snowball" in remarkable ways over time. So â€" the importance of understanding the belief-system cannot be overemphasized, as it is only with such understanding (in tandem with the power of the relationship arising from this effort, if successful) that effecting change becomes possible. The spectrum of possible therapeutic strategies/"tools" which can be utilized at this stage is slowly growing and evolving, and is quite an exciting area for creative efforts and research.

Certainly the parallels with religious belief-systems are quite striking, as is the degree to which religious beliefs are so frequently a major thread in the fabric of the individual's delusional belief-system. Perhaps, then, such a "back door" approach may have a place in dealing with the religious beliefs of more "normal" individuals, where the delusion is more encapsulated and compartmentalized, and where reality-testing capacities and reason are (hopefully!) more intact and accessible? Only time will tell.

Thank you all for your attention. I hope these thoughts prove helpful ands worthy of your time spent reading them.

Other Comments by elad-usa

44. Comment #201045 by jo5ef on June 28, 2008 at 9:18 pm

"several mental illnesses are known to be associated with hyper-religiosity"

Seems reasonable, now how do you quantify religiosity, is it a 1 to 10 scale with hyper being say 8 or higher (10 would be self declared prophet or god incarnate presumably).

Other Comments by jo5ef

45. Comment #202802 by Hugo on July 2, 2008 at 2:39 am

 avatarHey Nick6742, thanks for the audio that was really interesting, I commented on Google, really that Christian girl at 33:10 could not have given a better example of the argument from ignorance!
I don't know how it is possible, therefor GodDidIt(TM)!
I want to echo the sentiment that I hope to never get her as a physician.

Other Comments by Hugo

46. Comment #204196 by Aztek on July 4, 2008 at 11:16 am

 avatar"Now they distinguish normal religious and spiritual ideas and behaviors from those that result from mental illness."

I've always wondered where they draw the line. What kind of religious ideas are there that are actually concidered normal? Where does an already insane idea become really insane, or a "result from mental illness".

"A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything." -Friedrich Nietzsche

Other Comments by Aztek

47. Comment #204307 by elad-usa on July 4, 2008 at 4:56 pm

Indeed, a most profound and fascinating point! Often it is like dealing with one delusion embedded within another delusion nested within yet another -- sort of like stepping "through the looking glass" (with all due respect and gratitude to Lewis Carroll), where the Red Queen happily states that on some days she's already believed 6 impossible things before breakfast!

Other Comments by elad-usa
Reload Comments | Back to Top

Comment Entry: Please Login

Register a new account

Username:

Password: