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Former state science director sues over intelligent design e-mail
by Dallas News
Thanks to aflacgirl84 for the link.
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/latestnews/stories/070408dntexscience.184e885c.html
Former state science director sues over intelligent design e-mail
AUSTIN – A former state science curriculum director filed suit against the Texas Education Agency and Education Commissioner Robert Scott on Wednesday, alleging she was illegally fired for forwarding an e-mail about a lecture that was critical of the teaching of intelligent design in science classes.
Christina Comer, who lost her job at the TEA last year, said in a suit filed in federal court in Austin that she was terminated for contravening an unconstitutional policy at the agency that required employees to be neutral on the subject of creationism – the biblical interpretation of the origin of humans.
The policy was in force even though the federal courts have ruled that teaching creationism as science in public schools is illegal under U.S. Constitution's provision preventing government establishment or endorsement of religious beliefs.
"The agency's 'neutrality' policy has the purpose or effect of endorsing religion, and thus violates the Establishment Clause," the lawsuit said.
Ms. Comer also said in her complaint that she was fired without due process after serving as the state science director for nearly 10 years.
Her lawsuit seeks a court order overturning the TEA's neutrality policy on teaching of creationism and declaring that her dismissal was unconstitutional. The suit also seeks her reinstatement to her old job.
The theory of intelligent design holds that the origin of the universe and humans is best explained by an unknown "intelligent cause" rather than through evolutionary processes such as natural selection and random mutation. Critics – and at least one federal judge – contend that intelligent design is nothing more than creationism and has no business being taught in science classes.
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/latestnews/stories/070408dntexscience.184e885c.html
Former state science director sues over intelligent design e-mail
AUSTIN – A former state science curriculum director filed suit against the Texas Education Agency and Education Commissioner Robert Scott on Wednesday, alleging she was illegally fired for forwarding an e-mail about a lecture that was critical of the teaching of intelligent design in science classes.
Christina Comer, who lost her job at the TEA last year, said in a suit filed in federal court in Austin that she was terminated for contravening an unconstitutional policy at the agency that required employees to be neutral on the subject of creationism – the biblical interpretation of the origin of humans.
The policy was in force even though the federal courts have ruled that teaching creationism as science in public schools is illegal under U.S. Constitution's provision preventing government establishment or endorsement of religious beliefs.
"The agency's 'neutrality' policy has the purpose or effect of endorsing religion, and thus violates the Establishment Clause," the lawsuit said.
Ms. Comer also said in her complaint that she was fired without due process after serving as the state science director for nearly 10 years.
Her lawsuit seeks a court order overturning the TEA's neutrality policy on teaching of creationism and declaring that her dismissal was unconstitutional. The suit also seeks her reinstatement to her old job.
The theory of intelligent design holds that the origin of the universe and humans is best explained by an unknown "intelligent cause" rather than through evolutionary processes such as natural selection and random mutation. Critics – and at least one federal judge – contend that intelligent design is nothing more than creationism and has no business being taught in science classes.
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Posted: Wednesday, July 2, 2008 | PermalinkComments 1 - 50 of 51 |
Reload Comments | Back to Top | Page Numbers2. Comment #203376 by Godfree Gordon on July 2, 2008 at 6:27 pm
We should start organising debates between IDers and other relgious freaks - atheists could just stand back and watch it all implode... Other Comments by Godfree Gordon
3. Comment #203380 by Lucas on July 2, 2008 at 6:40 pm
This is a big case. We need to get behind this one with all we've got. Winning will change the whole debate, maybe even ending it. Other Comments by Lucas
4. Comment #203381 by mandydax on July 2, 2008 at 6:52 pm
Good for her. I was so pissed when I read about her getting fired over that.Other Comments by mandydax
5. Comment #203382 by polishrequiem on July 2, 2008 at 6:56 pm
Brilliant. She'll win.Other Comments by polishrequiem
6. Comment #203385 by markg on July 2, 2008 at 7:15 pm
The theory of intelligent design...
ID is not a theory. It's only a really bad idea.
Other Comments by markg
7. Comment #203391 by dr joneZ on July 2, 2008 at 7:30 pm
Education is the battlefront to watch. The War on Education - now in it's opening stages - will be the dirtiest fight of all time. This is but one case of many to come. Educators and teachers MUST stand for reason and freedom of thought. Even Will Smith has the bloody Scientologists teaching at his new self-funded private school for his own kids
It's got to stop - education was never supposed to be a warfront
Other Comments by dr joneZ
8. Comment #203393 by steveroot on July 2, 2008 at 7:50 pm
Hey, Dr JoneZ,Looks like the Jesus on the light switch has a "Jones" of his own! Which one do you suppose flicks his switch... the little boy or the little girl?
Ste5e
Other Comments by steveroot
9. Comment #203394 by dr joneZ on July 2, 2008 at 7:57 pm
steveroot,they both flick his switch together. It's a miracle, because all of this electricity lights up the room so it must be good
Other Comments by dr joneZ
10. Comment #203395 by steveroot on July 2, 2008 at 8:01 pm
9. Comment #203394 by dr joneZ on July 2, 2008 at 7:57 pm
steveroot,
they both flick his switch together. It's a miracle, because all of this electricity lights up the room so it must be good
I'd be looking for a switch with a pink toggle! :-)
Ste5e
Other Comments by steveroot
11. Comment #203397 by moderndaythomas on July 2, 2008 at 8:01 pm
dr joneZ said: Even Will Smith has the bloody Scientologists teaching at his new self-funded private school for his own kids
The tragedy of a nation that fails to educate its citizens is that in its place you have celebrities.
Many of whom are poorly educated themselves, or English Lit majors (humor), and are removed from any semblance of reality. Their self tailored, insulated, fashion driven existence allows them to, in effect, disavow the natural world without consequences.
In short, they're flakes.
Other Comments by moderndaythomas
12. Comment #203399 by RamziD on July 2, 2008 at 8:04 pm
Good for her! Notice, she's not tainting the legitimacy of this case by asking for monumental sums of money or trying to take advantage of our court system. She's merely asking that federal law be obeyed and she be given her job back.I'm still afraid for Texas, though. It was just recently that the creationist-controlled TEA (or maybe it was some other advisory board) hastily passed through a revision of the Texas english curriculum which only they backed. When it comes time to review the science curriculum, who knows what punches they'll pull?
Other Comments by RamziD
13. Comment #203401 by Border Collie on July 2, 2008 at 8:19 pm
Science education is abysmally weak in Texas as it is. Maybe if she wins it will help a little. It's hellish when one has to file a lawsuit in an attempt to simply create or maintain normalcy.ModernDayThomas ... fantastic observation. It seems that this entire US culture has turned to tabloid superstition ... with celebreties, preachers, lawyers and politicians informing us about reality.
Other Comments by Border Collie
14. Comment #203402 by Hobbit on July 2, 2008 at 8:21 pm
I had a discussion the other night (read argument after several wines) with a work colleague who couldn't understand why I care what other people believe.
When I tried to explain that those who innocuously believe in the sky fairy empower those who then go on to do evils things in the name of their particular sky fairy, he got very upset and told me I was being disrespectful of others beliefs.
I then went on to ask him if I was a white supremacists who used passages in the bible to justify my belief, would he respect my beliefs. He just got the shits and told me I was using extreme examples.
I might just email him this article to show that people who think the sky fairy is watching are not innocuous, but try to quietly infiltrate the education of his children and turn them into one of them.
Then again, what's the point.
Everything's bigger in Texas......even the stupidity!
Other Comments by Hobbit
15. Comment #203407 by fitzyp on July 2, 2008 at 8:56 pm
But Ben Stein told me its the other way around.....Other Comments by fitzyp
16. Comment #203409 by wajid on July 2, 2008 at 9:05 pm
i can't even believe it's got this far !....how on young earth has it come to this ??Other Comments by wajid
17. Comment #203411 by Sittingduck on July 2, 2008 at 9:28 pm
This is more important than it might seem at first. Texas is one of the biggest purchaser of text books in the nation. It has a huge influence on what is printed and consumed around the country. I hope she wins her case. Other Comments by Sittingduck
18. Comment #203419 by Barry Pearson on July 2, 2008 at 10:33 pm
#203376 by Godfree Gordon: We should start organising debates between IDers and other relgious freaks - atheists could just stand back and watch it all implode...Yup!
And there are several different kinds of Creationism/ID, all incompatible with one-another. Muslims, Christians, possibly others. Young World, Old World, and variations. Some ID people appear to believe in common descent, most don't.
Types of Christian creationism:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creationism#Types_of_Christian_creationism
Non-Christian creationist movements:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creationism#Non-Christian_creationist_movements
Islamic creationism:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_creationism
Other Comments by Barry Pearson
19. Comment #203430 by rod-the-farmer on July 2, 2008 at 11:11 pm
Hooray for her. But winning this case may not be as easy as some her (all ?) hope. In any case, she has my vote. I bet her counsel chooses trial by judge. Sounds like a Texas jury would be opposed to her complaint. Other Comments by rod-the-farmer
20. Comment #203434 by King of NH on July 2, 2008 at 11:21 pm
I still think we should take creationists up in a plane, about 30,000 feet, and shove them out. If they're right, God will let them sprout wings. If they're wrong, they'll finally shut up and let the rest of us advance a bit. Other Comments by King of NH
21. Comment #203435 by Philip1978 on July 2, 2008 at 11:26 pm
QUETZ!This poor lady was fired from TEA!
Do you think a good smiting is in order?
Other Comments by Philip1978
22. Comment #203444 by mordacious1 on July 3, 2008 at 12:07 am
rodUnfortunately, the defendent gets to choose trial by judge/jury, and that would be the school district.
About the lack of monetary reward. I see this as a problem. I know in my area, dealing with special ed services, people will sue and if the school loses, so what, they provide the service. Most people don't sue, so they stay ahead of the game. If they had to pay out 5 mil, they'd think twice about breaking the law. I like punitive rewards, and if I was the judge, I'd slap one on even if she didn't ask for it.
Other Comments by mordacious1
23. Comment #203457 by hungarianelephant on July 3, 2008 at 1:10 am
mordacious1 is right - the school board get the right to choose trial by jury. However, the jury just get to decide the facts. They don't get to decide whether the policy is unconstitutional.I wouldn't assume that a Texas jury would be against her anyway. In my limited experience, Southern juries tend to get pretty pissed off about people being pushed around without a fair hearing. Sounds like she has a good chance. Power to her elbow.
Other Comments by hungarianelephant
24. Comment #203490 by Raiko on July 3, 2008 at 2:55 am
Good luck, Mrs. Comer! I'm glad she took this step and I hope the best for her! Other Comments by Raiko
25. Comment #203533 by j.mills on July 3, 2008 at 5:21 am
Hobbit said:
When I tried to explain that those who innocuously believe in the sky fairy empower those who then go on to do evils things in the name of their particular sky fairy, he got very upset and told me I was being disrespectful of others beliefs.
Common misunderstanding. Courtesy obliges me to respect your RIGHT to hold absurd beliefs. No reason I should respect the beliefs themselves, particularly when they are asserted without evidence.
Other Comments by j.mills
26. Comment #203537 by bluebird on July 3, 2008 at 5:36 am
The online lawsuit document is interesting,
glad to get an update on this situation...
RE: Will Smith's private school: Now I understand the tiny bit of news scroll I saw the other day--L.A. School & Scientology--.
Full article:
http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/news/celebrity/la-me-newvillage29-2008jun29,0,4515213.story
Other Comments by bluebird
27. Comment #203542 by Lightnin on July 3, 2008 at 5:51 am
The theory WRONG! of intelligent design holds...Other Comments by Lightnin
28. Comment #203545 by RickM on July 3, 2008 at 6:01 am
Great! Boy, she didn't waste any time. Other Comments by RickM
29. Comment #203546 by ~manic-depressive on July 3, 2008 at 6:05 am
The tragedy of a nation that fails to educate its citizens is that in its place you have celebrities.
Many of whom are poorly educated themselves, or English Lit majors (humor), and are removed from any semblance of reality. Their self tailored, insulated, fashion driven existence allows them to, in effect, disavow the natural world without consequences...
Have to agree with both yourself and dr joneZ.
It's difficult to believe the power Scientology is gaining. This is a religion created by a science fiction writer who, twenty years earlier, said that the best way to make money was to start a religion. Incredible.
As for English Lit majors, when they become journalists they once too often misreport scientific news not, I think, out of malicious intent but simply ignorance of the basic principles of science.
As for trial by jury, Professor Dawkins wrote a great essay (in "The Devil's Chaplain") arguing against its efficacy.
Other Comments by ~manic-depressive
30. Comment #203644 by Ultraviolet G on July 3, 2008 at 9:43 am
Scientologists at a school run by Will Smith!!??? THAT Will Smith?? That's really sad...I used to like him...:(
Other Comments by Ultraviolet G
31. Comment #203653 by arogop on July 3, 2008 at 10:14 am
20. Comment #203434 by King of NH
Here here. I will help pay the fuel cost.
Or a cheaper method would be to tie a rock to their legs and see if they float. I'll provide the rock!!
Other Comments by arogop
32. Comment #203657 by Kubenzi on July 3, 2008 at 10:26 am
i hope there will be a documentary team following her through this.it would be the perfect response to expelled,and the press would eat it up,being nostalgic of the good old days when ben stein had a movie out you could destroy in your column Other Comments by Kubenzi
33. Comment #203760 by Corylus on July 3, 2008 at 2:05 pm
For those that haven't already seen this.
A short video with this lady in it.
Hope her lawyers and the courts come through for her.
Other Comments by Corylus
34. Comment #203765 by JHJEFFERY on July 3, 2008 at 2:16 pm
Rod,There is no jury trial for the issue of constitutionality--that is a matter of law for the court. If there is a fact question (there will be) about whether the email or her beliefs were the reason for the firing, a jury would be available if asked by either party.
Other Comments by JHJEFFERY
35. Comment #203769 by Lord Zero on July 3, 2008 at 2:26 pm
USA its all messed up... why arecreationism even allowed to exist ?
This situation its unthinkable in
most of the world. Being a supposed
powerful and influencial country, this
really scares me, i would rather kill myself
than live in a world where idiotic misticism
its on equal grounds with logic and science.
I thank FSM for not have born there...
Other Comments by Lord Zero
36. Comment #203788 by Chris_The_Positivist on July 3, 2008 at 3:22 pm
Tsch Creatins....Keep building up that wall! ;)
Other Comments by Chris_The_Positivist
37. Comment #203841 by Faithhead on July 3, 2008 at 8:03 pm
Okay this is probably a stupid Q. But the judge makes it seem like ther could be a distinction between ID and creationism. I always thought they were different names for the same thing. Is this true?? Other Comments by Faithhead
38. Comment #203844 by Goldy on July 3, 2008 at 8:07 pm
Faithhead, I believe ID was described as cretinism in a cheap suit. They are the same thing. Calling God the "designer" doesn't make it any less cretinist.And no, those are not typos...
Other Comments by Goldy
39. Comment #203846 by Brian English on July 3, 2008 at 8:14 pm
ID was an attempt to get creationism past the law of separation of church and state in the US. Under that law, religion cannot be supported by the state and it's the state that provides education. So, creationism, being a religiously inspired doctrine would violate the law. The strategy with ID was to pose ID as an scientific theory, on equal footing with theory of Evolution (ToE). ID says that some parts, if not all of life is to complex to have developed naturally and points to, or requires a designer to explain the complexity. ID has no scientific merit because it proposes no testable hypotheses or predictive power.The idea was to get ID allowed into schools as science, then of course, the designer would be the particular deity of the creationists. This is why it was struck down because it's not a scientific theory and was obviously a front to get religion into the classroom....
Other Comments by Brian English
40. Comment #203848 by Goldy on July 3, 2008 at 8:24 pm
Talking of ID...http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/northamerica/usa/2240349/Creation-Museum-Among-the-believers.html
The comments are to die for! Here's one
17. Posted by Geoffrey on July 04, 2008 12:52 AM
I am shocked by the rudeness and intolerance displayed by evolutionists against christians in these posts. Evolution is definitely not a harmless theory. The Nazi's used it to justify the extermination of the Jews. Abortion and euthanasia are all practical outcomes from its 'survival of the fittest' law and, as you can see from the posts, it produces an intolerance in those who hold to it today. Whereas the christian message is that we should protect the weak and the vulnerable. The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.
Oh, OK, here's another ;-)
1. Posted by John on July 04, 2008 03:48 AM
Yikes! It seems this article has hit a raw nerve with some! Evolutionists really seem to hate anyone who questions their religion. Sorry, their worldview. Evolution has been taught as fact for decades in our schools with an astonishingly religious zeal, well supported by the mainstream media, and yet still more than half the population ask why there is not a shred of evidence to support it? Perhaps it is because those who are really prepared to look beyond "what everyone knows, stoopid!" realise that evolutionary theory just doesn't work. It is impossible mathematically, physically and biologically. From philosophical viewpoint it is self-contradictory. Sadly, those who refuse to look past the end of their noses will continue to deny it until just after their dying day.
Other Comments by Goldy
41. Comment #203850 by Brian English on July 3, 2008 at 8:36 pm
Nasty comments there. :)Other Comments by Brian English
42. Comment #203851 by mordacious1 on July 3, 2008 at 8:37 pm
GoldyOh my. This is why I rarely talk with cretins anymore.
I like that: not only dinosaurs and people coexist at the Cretin-museum, but the kid is already properly clothed, we homo sapiens advanced quickly. A few hundred years later they were writing the old testament, of course, by then they had forgot about dinosaurs so they didn't mention them.
Other Comments by mordacious1
43. Comment #203855 by Goldy on July 3, 2008 at 8:45 pm
Mord, I am in awe at people's militant ignorance sometimes.Been googling...well, it is Friday, LCMS is chugging away nicely and I'm just waiting to go home. Found this
http://www.creationism.org/csshs/v06n2p04.htm
Brilliant!
Other Comments by Goldy
44. Comment #203860 by mordacious1 on July 3, 2008 at 9:05 pm
Goldy. If this is a cretinist site, how come they call the flood "biblical mythology"? I thought that these guys believed in the Noah story.Other Comments by mordacious1
45. Comment #203863 by Goldy on July 3, 2008 at 9:18 pm
:-) Now there's a good question!Other Comments by Goldy
46. Comment #203870 by mordacious1 on July 3, 2008 at 9:27 pm
I think I misread their statement. Rereading it, I think they mean the Chinese version of the flood is mythology, but the flood of the scripture is fact. One man's fact is another man's bullshit.Other Comments by mordacious1
47. Comment #203875 by Goldy on July 3, 2008 at 9:32 pm
Waaaaaahahahahahahahahah! Should ask Txtpiper that! He's on the Lying for Jesus thread again :-)I'm off home - catch you all later!
Other Comments by Goldy
48. Comment #203876 by mordacious1 on July 3, 2008 at 9:39 pm
Yes, I was just there. You know, alcohol is a great muscle relaxer for your back, so pick up plenty on your way home.Other Comments by mordacious1
49. Comment #203936 by action bastard on July 4, 2008 at 1:13 am
A jury trial in Austin is not so bad. It's the most liberal city in the South. If the trial is in fact in Austin then she probably wins.Other Comments by action bastard
50. Comment #203944 by Goldy on July 4, 2008 at 1:19 am
You know, alcohol is a great muscle relaxer for your back, so pick up plenty on your way home.
Third beer now - Ngahere Gold, an NZ brew. 7%. Boy, am I relaxed! Gonna hurt in the morning with all this relaxing... hic!
Other Comments by Goldy
Over 1.5 million copies sold
Books by Richard Dawkins
The Oxford Book of Modern Science Writing
by Richard Dawkins
The Selfish Gene
by Richard Dawkins
The Blind Watchmaker
by Richard Dawkins
The Ancestor's Tale
by Richard Dawkins
Unweaving the Rainbow
by Richard Dawkins
1. Comment #203374 by chuckgoecke on July 2, 2008 at 6:22 pm
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