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Does the Pope wear Prada?
by The New Age
Thanks to Mick Pepler for the link.
http://www.theage.com.au/news/fashion/does-the-pope-wear-prada/2008/07/03/1214951001487.html
Does the Pope wear Prada?
Pope watchers have been put on notice that the Vatican does not take kindly to facile labels like "retro" or "vintage" when discussing the sartorial choices of Pope Benedict XVI.
After insistent rumours that the pope's red shoes were from luxury house Prada, the Vatican finally put the matter to rest.
Benedict, 81, is a "simple and sober man (who is) not dressed by Prada but by Christ," the newspaper L'Osservatore Romano wrote last week, noting that the colour symbolises the blood of martyrs.
While his Serengeti sunglasses may have helped the pope make Esquire magazine's list of the world's best-dressed men last year - he was named "Accessoriser of the Year" - pope watchers have noted an apparent hankering for the past both in his vestments and in his liturgical choices.
These include lace or richly embroidered surplices, centuries-old mitres and a red wool camauro cap with ermine trim that goes back to the 12th century and had last been worn by John XXIII, who died in 1963.
Benedict has also brought back the ombrellino, a small umbrella used to symbolise the pope's temporal powers.
Many see in the latest changes the hand of Monsignor Guido Marini, a discreet prelate who became the new master of pontifical liturgical celebrations in October.
Marini, who has largely kept the press at arm's length, gave his first interview to an Italian daily, Il Giornale, in May, which reportedly upset the Vatican with its headline: "The Vintage Pope".
This is perhaps why Marini turned to the Osservatore Romano, which carried his explanation that the use of age-old liturgical accessories was aimed at reinforcing a "sense of mystery" and "the sacred".
The pope caused a stir at an open-air mass in southern Italy last month when he offered communion wafers to pilgrims kneeling on a prie-dieu - a type of bench used by a person at prayer - rather than standing.
Kneeling for communion was never prohibited, but the practice - along with many others considered as reflecting a paternalistic interpretation of the priesthood - was largely abandoned after the reforms of the Second Vatican Council in the early 1960s.
The generally practised alternative, considered less intimidating, is for the priest to put the sacred wafer into the hand of the worshipper standing before him, who then puts it into his or her own mouth.
Last year Benedict rehabilitated the 16th century Latin mass in certain circumstances, saying the old and new forms of the mass should "mutually enrich each other".
Marini predicted that the pope would continue to offer communion wafers into the mouths of kneeling pilgrims in future celebrations.
He said the practice "aids the devotion of the faithful, and makes it easier to enter into the sense of mystery".
Rejecting labels of pre- and post-Vatican II, Marini said: "The Church lives according to the law of continuity in virtue of which it recognises development rooted in tradition."
Comparing practices before and after Vatican II, he added, is "mistaken and typical of highly reductive ideological views".
One prelate, on condition of anonymity, told AFP of his misgivings about the changes underway at the Vatican.
"The liturgical celebration is first of all a spiritual encounter between believers and Christ. The increasingly insistent focus on ritual could give this encounter a constrained feeling."
http://www.theage.com.au/news/fashion/does-the-pope-wear-prada/2008/07/03/1214951001487.html
Does the Pope wear Prada?
Pope watchers have been put on notice that the Vatican does not take kindly to facile labels like "retro" or "vintage" when discussing the sartorial choices of Pope Benedict XVI.
After insistent rumours that the pope's red shoes were from luxury house Prada, the Vatican finally put the matter to rest.
Benedict, 81, is a "simple and sober man (who is) not dressed by Prada but by Christ," the newspaper L'Osservatore Romano wrote last week, noting that the colour symbolises the blood of martyrs.
While his Serengeti sunglasses may have helped the pope make Esquire magazine's list of the world's best-dressed men last year - he was named "Accessoriser of the Year" - pope watchers have noted an apparent hankering for the past both in his vestments and in his liturgical choices.
These include lace or richly embroidered surplices, centuries-old mitres and a red wool camauro cap with ermine trim that goes back to the 12th century and had last been worn by John XXIII, who died in 1963.
Benedict has also brought back the ombrellino, a small umbrella used to symbolise the pope's temporal powers.
Many see in the latest changes the hand of Monsignor Guido Marini, a discreet prelate who became the new master of pontifical liturgical celebrations in October.
Marini, who has largely kept the press at arm's length, gave his first interview to an Italian daily, Il Giornale, in May, which reportedly upset the Vatican with its headline: "The Vintage Pope".
This is perhaps why Marini turned to the Osservatore Romano, which carried his explanation that the use of age-old liturgical accessories was aimed at reinforcing a "sense of mystery" and "the sacred".
The pope caused a stir at an open-air mass in southern Italy last month when he offered communion wafers to pilgrims kneeling on a prie-dieu - a type of bench used by a person at prayer - rather than standing.
Kneeling for communion was never prohibited, but the practice - along with many others considered as reflecting a paternalistic interpretation of the priesthood - was largely abandoned after the reforms of the Second Vatican Council in the early 1960s.
The generally practised alternative, considered less intimidating, is for the priest to put the sacred wafer into the hand of the worshipper standing before him, who then puts it into his or her own mouth.
Last year Benedict rehabilitated the 16th century Latin mass in certain circumstances, saying the old and new forms of the mass should "mutually enrich each other".
Marini predicted that the pope would continue to offer communion wafers into the mouths of kneeling pilgrims in future celebrations.
He said the practice "aids the devotion of the faithful, and makes it easier to enter into the sense of mystery".
Rejecting labels of pre- and post-Vatican II, Marini said: "The Church lives according to the law of continuity in virtue of which it recognises development rooted in tradition."
Comparing practices before and after Vatican II, he added, is "mistaken and typical of highly reductive ideological views".
One prelate, on condition of anonymity, told AFP of his misgivings about the changes underway at the Vatican.
"The liturgical celebration is first of all a spiritual encounter between believers and Christ. The increasingly insistent focus on ritual could give this encounter a constrained feeling."
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Posted: Friday, July 4, 2008 | PermalinkComments 1 - 40 of 40 |
Reload Comments | Back to Top | Page Numbers2. Comment #204343 by 8teist on July 4, 2008 at 8:43 pm
Well of course, poverty is only for the peasants. Other Comments by 8teist
3. Comment #204345 by King of NH on July 4, 2008 at 8:47 pm
He said the practice "aids the devotion of the faithful, and makes it easier to enter into the sense of mystery".
or: He said the practice "aids the brainwashing of the faithful, and makes it easier to surrender critical and individual thought".
Not much of a trecky, but I do remember something about 'Borg' and "resistance is futile."
jenlaferriere:
I also grew up Catholic. Chruches are beautiful places. But I also live in New England and have seen many beautiful buildings of Academia, built for much nobler reasons. There is a humbling feeling standing on Harvard's campus looking up the massive stairs of the library.
Other Comments by King of NH
4. Comment #204351 by mordacious1 on July 4, 2008 at 8:58 pm
I thought he wore satan. Oh, I think it's spelled satin. my bad.Other Comments by mordacious1
5. Comment #204355 by 8teist on July 4, 2008 at 9:04 pm
I thought he was more of a Vivienne Westwood kinda guy. Other Comments by 8teist
6. Comment #204362 by mordacious1 on July 4, 2008 at 9:15 pm
Maybe Victoria's Secret?edit: Might have a push up bra under that cloak.
Other Comments by mordacious1
7. Comment #204363 by Elles on July 4, 2008 at 9:15 pm
"While his Serengeti sunglasses may have helped the pope make Esquire magazine's list of the world's best-dressed men last year - he was named "Accessoriser of the Year" - pope watchers have noted an apparent hankering for the past both in his vestments and in his liturgical choices.These include lace or richly embroidered surplices, centuries-old mitres and a red wool camauro cap with ermine trim that goes back to the 12th century and had last been worn by John XXIII, who died in 1963. "
OMFSM! LOL! LMAO! ROFL!
Oh, if the real supermarket tabloids followed what the Pope wears instead of a bunch of celebrity actors who I've never heard of, it would be so worth reading.
Other Comments by Elles
8. Comment #204365 by mordacious1 on July 4, 2008 at 9:18 pm
deleted due to wrong thread, oops, sorry josh.Other Comments by mordacious1
9. Comment #204369 by 8teist on July 4, 2008 at 9:28 pm
So whats next? Is he going to release a sex tape before his new reality show premieres? Other Comments by 8teist
10. Comment #204373 by moderndaythomas on July 4, 2008 at 9:37 pm
mordacious1: Maybe Victoria's Secret?
Had him pegged for Fredrick's myself.
Other Comments by moderndaythomas
11. Comment #204392 by action1976 on July 4, 2008 at 10:35 pm
Benedict, 81, is a "simple and sober man (who is) not dressed by Prada but by Christ,"So Jesus Christ is a Men's Dresser as well as being the saviour of mankind,all in a days work for the Prince of Peace.
"Red shoes really match your pointy hat"
Other Comments by action1976
12. Comment #204394 by mordacious1 on July 4, 2008 at 10:39 pm
If he was dressed by a carpenter, wouldn't he be dressed in something made of sawdust or bent nails? At least plaid shirts, levis, and work boots...right 8theist? Bib overalls?[edit] And a hard hat rather than a cone head.
Other Comments by mordacious1
13. Comment #204396 by 8teist on July 4, 2008 at 10:50 pm
Right M, Like the construction worker from the Village People. Other Comments by 8teist
14. Comment #204397 by Notcrowingbutyawning on July 4, 2008 at 10:52 pm
Was it not the St Elvis of Costello who noted 'the angels wanna wear my red shoes' though? Surely, evidence of piety here. Other Comments by Notcrowingbutyawning
15. Comment #204399 by Styrer- on July 4, 2008 at 11:00 pm
Cunt.No article required to confirm.
'twas always thus, and always thus t'will be.
Next.
Best,
Styrer
Other Comments by Styrer-
16. Comment #204411 by Roland_F on July 5, 2008 at 12:02 am
Reminds me at David Bowie's song "Papa Ratzi put on his red shoes and dance the blues" and he is singing (in German) :Ich trag gern Frauenfummel, Strapse und BH
ich waer so gern ein Madel genau so wie Papa
English:
I like to wear women dresses, straps and a bra (Victoria's secret ?),
I'd like to be a girly exactly like my papa.
Can we also know which condom brand Papa Ratzi is using when he ensured personally no boys behind left (unattended) ?
Or is the clergy nowadays using as a kind of nostalgia sheep intestine instead latex especially as condoms are prohibited anyway ?
Other Comments by Roland_F
17. Comment #204412 by Dr Doctor on July 5, 2008 at 12:03 am
Dressed by Christ not Prada? Looks like a designer label to avoid.
Other Comments by Dr Doctor
18. Comment #204430 by Laurie Fraser on July 5, 2008 at 12:46 am
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!
It's all too much. Think I'll have to take a large glass of St Vitus' essence of herpetoria and have a good lie down.
Other Comments by Laurie Fraser
19. Comment #204440 by irate_atheist on July 5, 2008 at 1:34 am
If anyone doesn't see that these people are full of shit, they deserve everything they get. Other Comments by irate_atheist
20. Comment #204452 by Apathy personified on July 5, 2008 at 2:37 am
Interesting......Always thought he'd be a Dulce and Gabana person. I'm sure he has dreams of going to heaven - shame many londoners in the 70's already beat him to it.
Note: Yeah, there's a joke in there somewhere.
Other Comments by Apathy personified
21. Comment #204454 by Vaal on July 5, 2008 at 2:49 am
Benedict, 81, is a "simple and sober man (who is) not dressed by Prada but by Christ
Ah, no wonder people say Christ, what is he wearing now? Obviously as a 1st Century carpenter he would have no dress sense, expect for Hessian perhaps? :)
Perhaps they should have a Jesus clothes show, and as Christ is obviously around in the morning dressing Herr Ratzinger, he should be the judge, or is it a case of the Emperor clothes?
EDIT: Didn't Christ wear sandals?
Other Comments by Vaal
22. Comment #204459 by Telic on July 5, 2008 at 3:10 am
Yup, I'm sure Prada would jump at the chance to accessorise the pope.Who wants Angelina Jolie to show off your stuff on the red carpet at the oscars, when you could have a pedagogical, cross dressing, octagenarian, who once belonged to the Hitler Youth....
God's Rottweiler -
"That Prada bag is fantastic. I hope there are no condoms in it."
Other Comments by Telic
23. Comment #204460 by Palaeogluttony on July 5, 2008 at 3:17 am
Roland_F:
Reminds me at David Bowie's song "Papa Ratzi put on his red shoes and dance the blues" and he is singing (in German) :
Ich trag gern Frauenfummel, Strapse und BH
ich waer so gern ein Madel genau so wie Papa
English:
I like to wear women dresses, straps and a bra (Victoria's secret ?),
I'd like to be a girly exactly like my papa.,
That sounds like it's based on the famous Monty Python Lumberjack Song.
In German:
Ich fälle Bäume, trag Stockelschuh
Und Strumpf und Bustenhalter
Wär gern ein kleines Mädchen
So wie mein Onkel Walter
In English:
I cut down trees, I wear high heels,
Suspenders and a bra,
I wish I were a girlie,
Just like my dear papa.
Actually, Bowie's version is closer to the English version than it is to the official German one. Intriguing.
Just my 2 cents of Python-research. :-)
Other Comments by Palaeogluttony
24. Comment #204462 by Donald on July 5, 2008 at 3:21 am
Benedict, 81, is a "simple and sober man (who is) not dressed by Prada but by Christ"I stand in perpetual amazement that this kind of "snow" works on hundreds of millions of people. (I'm just in denial about the fact that most humans are NOT objective, rational, well-informed, independent thinkers. :-))
I also note that the Vatican stayed quiet, and let a L'Osservatore Romano journalist do the apologetics.
This is perhaps why Marini turned to the Osservatore Romano, which carried his explanation that the use of age-old liturgical accessories was aimed at reinforcing a "sense of mystery"This Marini is a little too honest for his job.
Loved the humorous comments in this thread. A little light relief is so welcome when discussing the problems of religion.
Other Comments by Donald
25. Comment #204505 by Logicel on July 5, 2008 at 4:52 am
...of his misgivings about the changes underway at the Vatican. ______
I first read this as: changes of underwear at the Vatican.
Benedict has also brought back the ombrellino, a small umbrella used to symbolize the pope's temporal powers.
____
This just cracked me up. Bars in Rome need to capitalize on this and have little black ombrellinos sticking out of alcoholic drinks.
Describing the Pope's idiotic style of dressing as retro distressed the Vatican? These dipshits want to pretend they have their pulse on the present, with their insane rantings about the living body of Christ, the deep, unchanging nature of their batshit crazy beliefs, their updated messages received via their hotline to god. They want to appear relevant, despite the stinking rotten carcass which is the Catholic Church.
Other Comments by Logicel
26. Comment #204532 by Alan Canon on July 5, 2008 at 5:52 am
I know what my beloved Episcopal priest, Lucinda, would say: "Thank God he revived SOMETHING of John XXIII's!"The Catholic Church (I almost said "Catholics," which would be ad hominem and also not what I mean) had a shot at getting on the road to something like sense with Vatican II. It has pained me to see them career back towards medieval thinking since then. Sad.
Other Comments by Alan Canon
27. Comment #204533 by Fire1974 on July 5, 2008 at 5:56 am
"Marini predicted that the pope would continue to offer communion wafers into the mouths of kneeling pilgrims in future celebrations.
He said the practice "aids the devotion of the faithful, and makes it easier to enter into the sense of mystery"."
Hmmm...? Kneel before him so he can shove it down your throat...
I really don't think there's any mystery about what's going on here.
'Yes..that's it...do you sense that feeling of humiliation and degradation? Yes? Good! That's what we call "entering into the mystery of our lord".'
Other Comments by Fire1974
28. Comment #204534 by alexmzk on July 5, 2008 at 6:01 am
Benedict has also brought back the ombrellino, a small umbrella used to symbolise the pope's temporal powers.
"slightly too small and impractical to be of any real use"
Other Comments by alexmzk
29. Comment #204536 by Border Collie on July 5, 2008 at 6:13 am
Just more tabloid baloney ...Other Comments by Border Collie
30. Comment #204542 by Hellene on July 5, 2008 at 7:07 am
"Ombrellino"?Like Mary Poppins?
Other Comments by Hellene
31. Comment #204546 by Crosius on July 5, 2008 at 7:14 am
Nice use of Brand Identity in the deflection by the bishop.The Pope doesn't wear PRADA, because that would be worldly and demonstrate a lack of humility.
He wears bespoke shoes fashioned by a local artisan.
Because bespoke shoes are what all the humble people living quiet lives of minimal accumulated wealth wear.
The point of the PRADA comment was that the shoes were ridiculously expensive (which they STILL are), and pandered to Papal vanity (which they still do). The brand-name under which they accomplish this is immaterial.
Other Comments by Crosius
32. Comment #204562 by flobear on July 5, 2008 at 8:28 am
Jenfla: Having grown up in the Catholic faith, the one thing that I have always actually enjoyed about the faith was the art, the iconography... the esthetics.
That's interesting. Having grown up in the Jewish faith I always thought of the Catholic iconography and aesthetics as kind of weird and creepy. I occasionally go to Catholic churches for weddings and funerals. I have always thought it bizarre how much they gesticulate and move in unison during their solemn rituals; what weird clothes the priests wear and their obsession with dark imagery of Jesus being tortured on the cross. I suppose as an atheist I am more keenly aware of it all. It just seems so archaic and cult-like. When I sit there, looking at the faces of all the people with their heads bent in prayer, I often find myself wondering what is going on inside their heads and I wonder what argument, what tone of voice, what facial expressions I'd have to use to snap them out of it all.
Other Comments by flobear
33. Comment #204564 by Dr Doctor on July 5, 2008 at 8:44 am
Flobear.The only way for an outsider to understand Roman Catholocism is to look at the polytheistic religions of ancient Greece and Rome and the time before Constantine.
Once you look at that, you realise that Roman Catholicism could really not be any other way.
Other Comments by Dr Doctor
34. Comment #204677 by Apeseed on July 5, 2008 at 1:41 pm
I wouldn't be surprised if Ratzi tried to bring back the Latin mass. That would add to the mystery.I remember complaining to my Dad about being forced to go to Mass even though I didn't believe in it. When I pointed out that he never went himself he tried to use some excuse along the lines of how he had stopped going when they stopped saying the Mass in Latin. I asked him was that because he realised they were talking bollocks. When he cracked up laughing I knew I had hit the nail on the head.
Other Comments by Apeseed
35. Comment #204825 by Trillian1212 on July 5, 2008 at 9:34 pm
The Devil wears Prada. Anyone seen that? Other Comments by Trillian1212
36. Comment #204949 by Ed-words on July 6, 2008 at 9:15 am
Flobear, (I get it - Flaubert)you were wondering what it would take to
bring these worshippers out of their prayerful
reveries. How about a good rap on the head?
Somebody once said," I'll never worship a god
whose chief attribute is a love of applause."
Other Comments by Ed-words
37. Comment #205307 by Ygern on July 7, 2008 at 3:37 am
Does anyone else notice that the 'mainstream' religions are getting noticably more conservative of late, reviving old outdated practises and re-stating old dusty doctrines that had long been ignored?I can't help but feel that the more visible and outspoken atheists in the last couple of years are partially responsible for this shift.
If so, I think it is a good thing. It will force a lot of fence-sitters to have a good long think about whether they really want to be associated any longer with these misogynistic, racist and flat-out antiquated superstitions. Its one thing to belong to a church with a nebulous, mild and 'innocuous' outlook; quite another to belong to a church where its leaders are falling over themselves in haste to bring back all the really objectionable and nonsensical elements of their faith.
Other Comments by Ygern
38. Comment #205372 by liberalartist on July 7, 2008 at 7:44 am
"Marini predicted that the pope would continue to offer communion wafers into the mouths of kneeling pilgrims in future celebrations. "
its all about power, they keep you in a subservient position to remind you that priests/pope/bishops, etc. are closer to god than you are, which means you need them if you believe in their bullshit.
I grew up Catholic and have always felt that the iconography and art was disturbing. I just didn't get it, I guess.
Other Comments by liberalartist
39. Comment #205396 by irate_atheist on July 7, 2008 at 8:19 am
38. Comment #205372 by liberalartist -I grew up Catholic and have always felt that the iconography and art was disturbing. I just didn't get it, I guess.No. You got it alright. You escaped.
Other Comments by irate_atheist
40. Comment #205702 by fiagottpf on July 7, 2008 at 5:17 pm
... pope's red shoes were from luxury house Prada, the Vatican finally put the matter to rest. Benedict, 81, is a "simple and sober man (who is) not dressed by Prada but by Christ," the newspaper L'Osservatore Romano wrote last week,christ is selling shoes now?
Yet more religious cobblers.
noting that the (red) colour symbolises the blood of martyrs.
and tomatoes.
These include lace or richly embroidered surplices, centuries-old mitres and a red wool camauro cap with ermine trim that goes back to the 12th century and had last been worn by John XXIII, who died in 1963.
from horrific ermine-scalp poisoning.
Benedict has also brought back the ombrellino, a small umbrella used to symbolise the pope's temporal powers.
and the power to keep his head dry.
... the use of age-old liturgical accessories was aimed at reinforcing a "sense of mystery"
for his next audience, his holiness is to wear a Zorro mask.
The pope caused a stir at an open-air mass in southern Italy last month when he offered communion wafers to pilgrims kneeling on a prie-dieu - a type of bench used by a person at prayer.
a bench
Kneeling for communion was never prohibited, but the practice - along with many others considered as reflecting a paternalistic interpretation of the priesthood
fellatio?
was largely abandoned after the reforms of the Second Vatican Council in the early 1960s.
Marini predicted that the pope would continue to offer communion wafers into the mouths of kneeling pilgrims ...
where else is he considering puting them?
Comparing practices before and after Vatican II, he added, is "mistaken and typical of highly reductive ideological views".
"We're not fascists anymore, honest"
One prelate, on condition of anonymity, told AFP of his misgivings about the changes underway at the Vatican.
"Honestly, she thinks she's god's gift to god!"
Other Comments by fiagottpf
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1. Comment #204340 by jenlaferriere on July 4, 2008 at 8:35 pm
Dogma, and dogmatic tradition is another story though...
Other Comments by jenlaferriere