Tuesday, November 21, 2006 | Reason : Children and Religion | print version

Public school teacher tells class: 'You belong in hell'

Jim Lippard

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Reposted from:
http://lippard.blogspot.com/2006/11/public-school-teacher-tells-class-you.html

The following is from Paul L. LaClair, a NYC attorney who lives in Kearny, New Jersey, and is posted with his permission. David Paszkiewicz, the teacher described here engaging in incompetent teaching and dishonesty, is apparently a youth pastor at Kearny Baptist Church in addition to being a public school teacher. LaClair's son Matthew has previously garnered attention for protesting Bush administration activities by refusing to stand for the Pledge of Allegiance. He seems to be a principled and courageous young man who has caught a really bad teacher:

Kearny, New Jersey
November 10, 2006

A history teacher at the local public high school here may have bitten off more than he cares to chew this fall. Self-described conservative Baptist David Paszkiewicz used his history class to proselytize biblical fundamentalism over the course of several days at the beginning of this school year.

Among his remarks in open class were statements that a being must have created the universe, that the Christian Bible is the word of God, and that dinosaurs were aboard Noah's ark. If you do not accept Jesus, he flatly proclaimed to his class, "you belong in hell." Referring to a Muslim student who had been mentioned by name, he lamented what he saw as her inevitable fate should she not convert. In an attempt to promote biblical creationism, he also dismissed evolution and the Big Bang as non-scientific, arguing by contrast that the Bible is supported by what he calls confirmed biblical prophecies.

After taking the matter to the school administration, one of Paszkiewicz's students, junior Matthew LaClair, requested a meeting with the teacher and the school principal. LaClair, a non-Christian, was requesting an apology and correction of false and anti-scientific statements. After two weeks, a meeting took place in the principal's office, wherein Paszkiewicz denied making many of these comments, claiming that LaClair had taken his remarks out of context. Paszkiewicz specifically denied using the phrase, "you belong in hell." He also asserted that he did nothing different in this class than he has been doing in fifteen years of teaching.

At the end of the meeting, LaClair revealed that he had recorded the remarks, and presented the principal with two compact discs. The teacher then declined to comment further without his union representative. However, he fired one last shot at the student, saying, "You got the big fish ... you got the big Christian guy who is a teacher...!"

Commenting on the situation, LaClair's father, attorney Paul LaClair said, "In a few short weeks, this teacher has displayed bigotry, hypocrisy, arrogance and an appalling ignorance of science. The school's administrators seem not to appreciate the damage this man is doing to young minds. He has some real abilities as a teacher, but this conduct is the intellectual equivalent of the school cafeteria serving sawdust."

The student and his parents have requested that the teacher's anti-scientific remarks be corrected in open class, and that the school develop quality control procedures to ensure that future classes are not proselytized and misinformed. They have also referred the matter for disciplinary action. No apology has been forthcoming from the teacher or from the school. The parents state that because of the administration's inaction, they have taken the matter to the school board this week, from whom they are awaiting a response.
Some local press from this story is expected this week; the blogosphere may generate more attention.

(This came to my attention from a post on the SKEPTIC list by Paul Harrison--thanks, Paul.)

UPDATE (November 15, 2006): This story has now been reported in the Newark Star-Ledger.

UPDATE: The Jersey Journal has picked up the story and put some of the audio online. The story is also being picked up by NYC-area radio and television--the LaClairs have been interviewed by or have scheduled interviews with WCBS radio, 1010 WINS radio, Fox 5 News, and NBC 4 News.

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1. Comment #8641 by Brett on November 21, 2006 at 9:49 pm

Remember folks, lying is bad, the commandments say so. Oh, um... well... except when you're lying for Jesus!

I would say I hope this "teacher" is never allowed to enter a classroom again, but he is obviously in need of some continuing (or maybe remedial) education.

2. Comment #8680 by Skeptic Jim on November 22, 2006 at 12:59 am

This is appalling. How did this idiot ever get a teaching job?

3. Comment #8708 by Bob Russell on November 22, 2006 at 3:38 am

Jayzuzzzzz H. Keerist

4. Comment #8733 by Aaron on November 22, 2006 at 5:53 am

Matthew LaClair deserves our applause. It's also important to keep in mind that if the Intelligent Design movement had their way, this teacher's behaviour would be sanctioned into every classroom in America.

5. Comment #8805 by Lee on November 22, 2006 at 10:36 am

If this teacher has tenure, he can be difficult to get rid of.
This is yet another example of why the government shouldn't be in the education business- it should be privatized.
If a private school's teachers don't perform, parents send their kids to a different school. Teachers are held accountable.
In public schools, teachers are accountable only to the government, and with tenure, unions, etc., often not even then.

6. Comment #8819 by Ziggy on November 22, 2006 at 11:22 am

Good effort by the kid in standing up to the teacher.

7. Comment #8824 by RascoHeldall on November 22, 2006 at 11:32 am

This man is a child abuser and it is an utter disgrace that such actions do not currently constitute a criminal offence.

8. Comment #8833 by Randy Ping on November 22, 2006 at 11:45 am

Neo, while I can empathize (truest me, I've considered leavingthe country before) with your fear; I don't think we should abandon the country to these people. Then they'd have nobody stopping them from their global "crusade" for Christ.
Please, we need educated people to stay and fight here in the US.

9. Comment #8865 by Anonymous on November 22, 2006 at 2:46 pm

Our son's middle school history teacher kept sneaking in biblical "references"; we tried to call him on it, his defense was "it's in context with lesson". BS!! We too wish there were Athiest private schools.

10. Comment #8871 by goddogit on November 22, 2006 at 3:37 pm

DBruce, no one has to "pile hate on this guy" to be "better" than him, since his words speak for themselves.
Evidently being upset about this rather vicious and indefensible abuse of authority equals "hate" to you.
Well, thanks for writing! But, well, what do YOU think should be done about such a teacher, involved in teaching his personal mythology as respected scientific fact? (MANY teachers, and in this country ALL of the abusers are "born-again" Xians, are doing this TODAY.) What should be done about teachers who condemn a student because of their philosophical or religious beliefs, or their ethnic background?

You would have done better to offer your own answers before trotting out this "cast the first stone" line. However admirable it is in itself (very), you've come across like a self-righteous hypocrite by posting as you have above (#32).
Please expand on your comment and offer solutions for the problem, rather than slinging mud in place of stones.

11. Comment #8876 by DeafScribe on November 22, 2006 at 4:01 pm

It's not demonizing to go after the guy for not doing his job. He's there to teach, not preach. He's there to share knowledge, not faith.

Like it or not, public schools are secular. He abused a position of authority by imposing his personal beliefs on a captive audience.

At best, he exercised extremely poor judgement. If he is unwilling to acknowledge his error, apologize and recant his remarks *in class*, then he deserves to be fired.

12. Comment #8890 by Paul Caira on November 22, 2006 at 5:31 pm

Please, please, everyone look at this. It's absolutely hilarious! The more we publicise this sort of stuff, the more people must realise how crazy these people are!

http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/faq/dont_use.asp

13. Comment #8907 by Pat on November 22, 2006 at 6:42 pm

I am an Athiest. No buts. Haveing said that: this is ridiculous.

Here are some comments thus far:
"This is appalling. How did this idiot ever get a teaching job?"

Maybe he didn't put on his resume: "I intend to spread the word of Jebus Christ in my classroom."

"Not only should this "teacher" be tried for bigotry and incompetence, but the school board and those who hired him as well."

Last I checked it was not a crime to hate people or be stupid, and that's exactly what bigotry is. Let me know if you feel the same when you're a manager and one of your employees does something stupid/illegal.

"If this teacher has tenure, he can be difficult to get rid of.
This is yet another example of why the government shouldn't be in the education business"

There is no tenure in public school. That's for univeristies. If education was privatized LESS people would learn about evolution, not more. Sure private schools have some cost advantages, but I think the greatest thing that ever happend in the USA was public education.

Jebus! Some of you people are such hate mongers I would have mistaken you for christians.

Grr.
Pat

14. Comment #8943 by Roy on November 22, 2006 at 11:25 pm

Well,I do not know about hell but I do not think anyone is going to heaven :-

http://yourgodisimaginary.com/video1.htm

15. Comment #8994 by thegashman on November 23, 2006 at 5:22 am

This is absolutely disgraceful! I can't make out a bloody thing!!

God must have his fingers in my ears - help!!!!!

16. Comment #9033 by Robert on November 23, 2006 at 9:25 am

The whole concept of eternal damnation is monstrous. Even Adolf himself doesn't deserve to be burned for eternity. It seems to me that those who propagate such psychological terrorism, especially on children, are prime candidates to be suspended on Satan's toasting fork

17. Comment #9051 by Diana on November 23, 2006 at 10:29 am

In Romania, where I live, we actually have mandatory (Christianity) classes and I have at LEAST one other teacher just like this one. So this doesn't come as a shock to me anymore. I think the kid standing up for what he thinks (and has logical evidence for) is very brave and it'd be good if there were more like him. Maybe that can change something.

18. Comment #9074 by Peter on November 23, 2006 at 2:51 pm

this is just another example of the kind of 'mental molestation" that is occurring around the globe.
the religo-nuts with their imaginary friends (that of course sanction any behaviour) are not going to give up quietly but kick and scream and use any kind of lie and justification to justify their activities. I say good on Matthew McClair and keep up the good work.

19. Comment #9077 by Anonymous on November 23, 2006 at 3:04 pm

The U.S. has lost the war against religious fundamentalism. They should withdraw. Too bad the Britains don't want them back.

20. Comment #9081 by Anonymous on November 23, 2006 at 3:20 pm

>>> Comment #8913 by Mark on November 22, 2006 at 7:02 pm

Hey, you're two protagonists are part of the same belief system, the second forgot to say that it's the "many magical little beings" that do the work for the "massive magical being".

In real-world terms, if a supreme being works through nature you have no scientific proof that denies their existence.

21. Comment #9124 by Anonymous on November 23, 2006 at 5:43 pm

Oh, about "American rights". Can someone really say anything they like in a teacher's post in America? :| ... Amazing... So, like, can anyone waltz up to the front of the classroom and say "Jesus sucks, I spit on God, you losers who worship him are ninnies" and enjoy the same indulgence from the school board that this guy seems to be enjoying...?

Do you honestly expect me to believe that you would say "oh you parents who believe in God - why do you fight this Satan-worshipper who laughs at your children? It is his American right to say whatever he likes. Teach your children that God exists at home, and suffer this man's madness during lesson time because it is his American Right." Excuse me, but I can't see you anywhere but at the front of the line waving a pitchfork.

Could you please also tell me why you sound so bitter?

22. Comment #9132 by Anonymous on November 23, 2006 at 6:08 pm

@Laya (again, oops):

From your point of view, we should give all religions equal say. However, for a Christian, this just isn't possible.

One side of the fence: Religions who believe in works as a way to salvation. Started as a result of man looking for a god, also brought about by the Devil.

On the other: Christianity - Jesus' death on the cross means we depend on grace for salvation. The only true faith, and one which logically has been around ever since Adam, but which came to fruition with Christ (if you don't believe me, read the Bible, with an open mind, as you love telling Christians).

Don't tell me that Christianity ISN'T on the other side of the fence to all other religions. Who is picked on the most? Christians. Who is the usual scapegoat? Christians. Who do we you get annoyed at when beliefs are aired publicly? Christians. Isn't it interesting that no other religion is like that?

Finally, the point of all this: the Christian doctrine teaches that people should go out and make converts of the world. Nothing wrong with 'stuffing convictions down throats'. In fact it's encouraged.

Oh, and one other thing - atheism is a religion. Technically and logically, it's a religion of self, that you are the one who controls your destiny, and that since you 'can think, you are' (look up Descartes).

Please don't use the typical straw men if/when replying to this, which include referencing the Crusades and others. It's just annoying and shows a lack of knowledge and *gasp* scientific proof.

23. Comment #9139 by Anonymous on November 23, 2006 at 6:44 pm

@Comment #9132 by Anonymous
Oh, and one other thing - atheism is a religion. Technically and logically...

Ahhh, no. Religion is nearly universally defined as "a system of ideas and rules for behavior based on supernatural explanations."

Atheism is nearly universally defined as "a lack of belief in the existence of God or gods."

Both are doctrines, but one is not the other.

24. Comment #9143 by Paul on November 23, 2006 at 6:52 pm

I am the father of the "brave young man," who is at present in our living room playing "Clue" with some friends. Very British of him, no? I stopped in to comment on some of the points that have been made. My thanks to all who have supported us, and to Richard Dawkins for posting this.

Litigation is being explored.

No law or school rule prohibits class recordings, therefore there is no basis for punishing Matthew. I point out that had Matthew not recorded this reprehensible conduct, the teacher would have gotten away with lying about it. Matthew predicted this outcome correctly, as most of the students continue to support the teacher, notwithstanding all the evidence. Where have we heard that before? Looking around the classroom before he started recording, he knew hard proof would be his only ally.

To those who think Matthew's questions were not strong enough, remember: the object was to win the war, not just the battle. It's important to know just how far the teacher was willing to go, and I think Matthew did a good job finding out. In addition, you may notice this teacher did most of the talking, and would interrupt students or shut down their discussions when any of them punched his buttons.

If this had been done in a private school, the teacher's religious rants would not have violated the Constitution. I do not believe this episode is in any way an argument for eliminating the public schools.

I don't know about O'Reilly, but Hannity and Colmes have contacted us. They're going to have to meet some very carefully drawn conditions before we cooperate with them. (For those who don't know, Sean Hannity is a vicious right wing attack dog.)

To DBruce: The man essentially told my son he belongs in hell, where he should suffer unremitting and eternal torment. I don't think my being upset ought to come as a surprise. Matthew asked him for an apology, and he did not refuse, but simply ignored the request. No doubt he thinks we should apologize to him.

You should all be aware that this teacher completely dismissed evolutionary theory, said it is not science. By contrast, biblical prophecies are proved because they have come true to the letter. Uh-huh. He also fed the popular misconception that "theory" implies an absence of proof. If anyone would care to write Kearny High School, just google the name for the address.

Paszkiewicz is still teaching, and my son is still sitting in the front row. We have no say in any disciplinary proceedings, which are conducted privately. I am told they can take considerable time. Our interest is in having the nonsense corrected in class, and in quality control.

I disagree that we Americans have lost the war against fundamentalism. Fundamentalists are more emboldened, but if they keep behaving like this, our people will respond --- I hope.

Mick, "the kid" is not a liar. Why raise this without any evidence? He surely didn't make up what is on his digital recorder.

Luke, the big deal is that this violates the US Constitution. It is an abuse of authority perpetrated to promote a particular, and very narrow, religion. In a culture rapidly turning right, that is a very big deal. As Sinclair Lewis put it, "When Fascism comes to America, it will come wrapped in the flag, carrying the cross."

As a reward for doing the right thing and exposing illegal and intellectually dangerous behavior, Matthew has been shunned by most of the student body, and physically threatened by several students. He received one death threat. America is starting to scare the hell out of us, too.

25. Comment #9146 by Anonymous on November 23, 2006 at 6:59 pm

"Matthew has ... received one DEATH THREAT."

Praise to the Lord! Honor and glory to those who threaten to kill in His Name!

you reading this, micklc? gimme a break, man.

26. Comment #9150 by Anonymous on November 23, 2006 at 7:08 pm

Tania, that may be all well and good, and it's a good point to bring up...

... But I'm sure everyone agrees... that even if this ... 'teacher'... conveniently FORGOT he ever said any such thing - shouldn't he have APOLOGIZED? He was clearly in the wrong, think ye not?

27. Comment #9155 by David on November 23, 2006 at 7:26 pm

Don't take anyone else's word for the truth or falsehood of this teacher's comments. Look it up for yourself. It could make an eternity of difference in your life.

28. Comment #9156 by Peter on November 23, 2006 at 7:30 pm

It sounded like he was discussing a controversial viewpoint and giving the students an opportunity to test it for themselves. I can see how the subject of religion may have come in a history class. I remember it came up in my 6th grade history class.

I did hear him say on the tape, "You belong in hell". But that wasn't the only thing he said on the tape. I listened for the context. By this time in the tape, he had already said several times to the students that he is talking about his beliefs and ask if any where uncomfortable with him doing so. He was also answering a question posed by LaClair who incidentally was the first to bring up the topic of Hell (as far as I can tell from the tape). The talk may have been shorter and moved more quickly to other topics except for questions being asked by the students.

Believe it or not, these students are going to run into religious people in the real world, they might as well start learning about how to defend (or even question!?) their own views.

The article can make it sound like he was making a blanket statement to all the kids that they were actually going to experience a painful place. This assumes that the kids believe everything they hear and they can only discuss sanitized topics for fear that they might accidentally assume that every opinion directly applies to them.

I am comfortable enough with my own views that the discussion was not threatening to me. I thought the discussion was actually interesting. The teacher calmly presented his views and tried to encourage and answer questions.

It really is up to the school board to decide if the teacher violated school policy. If he did, then he broke the rules and deserves the punishment. However if he didn't then he is likely to endure financial and social harm for presenting an opinion. Is this a good trend?

As far as evolution being a belief, check out the idea behind existentialism. How do we know that assumptions we make about our sensory input are best for us or even "real"?

29. Comment #9161 by Anonymous on November 23, 2006 at 7:56 pm

Peter - yes, what you say is true. But what an "opinion" that is... Say, for example, the man believes that white men and superior to black men, and a student, knowing this, tries to expose him as a silly racist by probing him with questions. If he snapped up the bait by explaining (in what he thought was a logical manner) why he thought white men were superior to black men, and told all the black students in the class "i'm very much afraid you lot are inferior to us whites" - would it have been taken to kindly? i was just wondering...

30. Comment #9192 by Anonymous on November 24, 2006 at 5:12 am

Sadly, this is far from the worst I've seen.

In Providence, RI you have teachers making sexual advances on students. One big reason this continues is the complete lack of morality among unions who hold us hostage. So long as you defend the misdeeds of your members, you take down the whole organization.

31. Comment #9231 by Paul on November 24, 2006 at 7:24 am

iw and perhaps a couple others are completely missing the point. In the United States, a public school teacher may not give his opinions about religious beliefs in class. Period. Doesn't matter who raises the discussion, or who directs it, though in this case it is clear the teacher was operating under the pretext of a student-led discussion to proselytize. The reason for the prohibition is that the teacher is the authority figure, no matter how gently he tries to phrase things --- and sometimes this teacher was absolute and dogmatic, e.g., a being had to be the creator of the universe. This was stated dogmatically and absolutely. The student's argument about evolution was dismissed with "I've seen the information." Well, if he did, he didn't understand it.

Teachers are not being paid to offer their opinions. As a pedagogical matter, a teacher conducting this kind of a discussion with high school students should remain completely neutral. Other teachers in the same high school, and across the world, do exactly that. They draw out the discussion, but do not direct it to their favored point of view. This is not teaching, it is proselytizing. In the field of religion in the United States, this is not only bad educating, it is unconstitutional.

I am amazed and appalled that anyone would even think to defend this conduct.

32. Comment #9259 by Martin on November 24, 2006 at 9:20 am

(which often reveres the bible as a highly accurate source for historical knowledge).

Read Robin Lane Fox's Truth and Fiction in the Bible and then try to say that sentence with a straight face.

33. Comment #9372 by God on November 24, 2006 at 3:44 pm

34. Comment #9439 by David on November 24, 2006 at 7:16 pm

don't quite understand where the following happened

"Referring to a Muslim student who had been mentioned by name, he lamented what he saw as her inevitable fate should she not convert."

Did anybody catch that? Anybody want to somehow prove that one? If it's not in there, don't include it. It hurts the overall argument if it is sensationalized. The idea is to get people of faith to accept secular institutions as a good thing, not to demonize them.

That being said, he's an ass and shouldn't be teaching. The kids that are coming out of high school in the US need all the education they can get. I don't think that discussing sky fairies for 30 minutes is going to help any.

35. Comment #9452 by Paul on November 24, 2006 at 8:36 pm

David asks: "'Referring to a Muslim student who had been mentioned by name, he lamented what he saw as her inevitable fate should she not convert.' Did anybody catch that? Anybody want to somehow prove that one?"

I believe this is on the September 15 recording, David. That recording has not been downloaded on line that I know of. One of the students brings up a Muslim girl at the school, whom everyone seems to like, and Paszkiewicz comments to the effect that he loves her, but she's going to hell if she doesn't accept Jesus. It's clearly there, David, though you may not have heard it. (I'm Matt's dad.)

36. Comment #9455 by Paul on November 24, 2006 at 8:41 pm

Again, this is Matthew's dad. I agree with Poyi. The hardest part of this battle for Matthew has not been against the teacher, or even against an administration unwilling to act, but against Matthew's peers, who have no clue about our democratic system, about science, or about the fact that what this teacher did was horribly wrong. It chills me to the bone.

37. Comment #9655 by Randy on November 25, 2006 at 12:08 pm

This is just another case of a christian doing what a christian has to do. spread the lies. i just hope that one day all the world will wake up and realize that we will be much better off if we rid the world of religion.

38. Comment #11022 by Kergillian on December 2, 2006 at 6:27 pm

I would love to hear the recordings!
If they turn up, I hope someone posts them here!

39. Comment #11970 by CrimsonSun on December 8, 2006 at 4:31 pm

If anyone was that like banging about religion in any of my classes in school, I'd definetly go against them because that is BS.

http://www.atheistnation.net/

Other Comments by CrimsonSun

40. Comment #13612 by pablojose on December 18, 2006 at 6:36 pm

Religion aside,
This man is a history teacher. Teachers typically follow a curriculum, and I'm sure the school board didn't publish this teacher's personal views on science, and lack of understanding thereof, as part of the history curriculum. So he's not doing his job. And if he's not doing his job why is he still employed?

Other Comments by pablojose

41. Comment #13654 by Steve Weiss on December 19, 2006 at 3:03 am

Comment #40 says that Christians don't impose Christianity. Please read Luke 19:27. Convert or die, says Jesus.

On the issue of the Big Bang Theory being bad science, I must agree with the teacher, but not for religious reasons. The Big Bang is actually in agreement with the Catholic position that the universe was created "ex nihilo" from nothing. There are numerous shortcomings of the Big Bang Theory though it is accepted as proven fact by the majority of cosmologists. Visit the website of astonomer Halton Arp as a starting point for alternatives to the Big Bang.

Other Comments by Steve Weiss

42. Comment #13681 by Steve Weiss on December 19, 2006 at 4:54 am

Comment #40 Please see Luke 19:27 for Jesus's command to become his follower or die. People do tend to skip over the parts of the Bible that they don't like to think about.

As to the validity of the Big Bang Theory in which the quantum vacuum fluctuates to create a singularity that explodes to create everything, that theory is the same as the Catholic "ex nihilo" position. See astronomer Halton Arp's website for a better alternative theory.

Other Comments by Steve Weiss

43. Comment #13836 by Tremayne on December 19, 2006 at 4:08 pm

I would not be surprised if, as a career choice, Mr. David Paszkiewicz deliberately targeted the public school system for the purpose of proselytizing his Christian doctrine. Mr. Paszkiewicz's mendacious behavior is deplorable and Matthew LaClair was well justified in surreptitiously recording Mr. Paszkiewicz who willfully violated United States law. By all appearances Mr. Paszkiewicz sounds like an aspiring puritanical Christian Recontructionist (Recontructionists being the Christian analog of the Islamic Taliban.)

To have a captive audience of minors in a taxpayer-funded setting and persecute them with anti-science Christian dogma is unconscionable. Such behavior from a teacher is undeniably stressful and anguishing and could be considered a form of psychological cruelty to non-Christian and non-theist students who may be in attendance.

David Paszkiewicz should have very little problem finding a well-paying 'teaching' job at a private Christian school; he has absolutely no business in any public school system.

Other Comments by Tremayne

44. Comment #51021 by gazzalw1 on June 21, 2007 at 7:02 am

As Dawkins quite aptly states in the God Delusion if the Christian God is the one true God why don't we all believe in him and is he also the one true god on other planets. Of course St Paul didn't master space/time travel now did he so wasn't able to spout his nonsense there fortunately.

Other Comments by gazzalw1

45. Comment #66947 by Rising Ape on September 1, 2007 at 4:47 am