1. Comment #19868 by EndlessForms on January 30, 2007 at 11:26 am

I think I'm going to be sick...

edit:

Ok, so I will grant the mother one thing: It is probably a bit easier to teach children creationism. You don't have to use your mind to think it out, you simply accept it. Like Santa and other fantasy ideas. But please, give the children a little credit; not only do I think they could understand science and appreciate it's beauty, but I've seen people simultaneously believe in God at the same time! What a feat of mental prowess! I think what they're afraid of, is science getting rid of all the easy reasons to believe in a god. And maybe that the hard reasons will, if they think hard enough, turn out to be vacuous. Hmm, ok so science may be a little destructive to religion (thank goodness!).

I'm still all choked up at watching all those kids... all the beautiful discoveries they're missing out on...


Other Comments by EndlessForms

2. Comment #19871 by scottishgeologist on January 30, 2007 at 11:36 am

YouTube vid has been pulled, but the onegoodmove video is still there.

This is grim.

Actually its easy for people of reason to dismiss this stuff. Its patently obvious that it is a load of tosh. And what is going on is brain washing.

What I would really like to know is why certain other evangelicals ALSO reject it - you know the ones that are into "theistic evolution" Day Age theory, Gap theory and all these things that they try to do to make the bible fit in with the obvious facts of science...

Most evangelicals claim to be be "bible believers", so does Ken Ham. So why is he wrong? Whats wrong with YEC?

These guys are all reading the same "Word of God" arent they?

I would argue that if you take a fundamentalist approach (and I dont mean that in a peremptory way) then these YEC guys HAVE to be right.

Either YEC is wrong, OEC is wrong, or atheism is wrong - they cant ALL be right.

Some of the fallings-out and aggro that you get among different Christian groups on this question can rival anything you'll see here! It's quite amusing to watch.

Other Comments by scottishgeologist

3. Comment #19873 by AtheistJunkie on January 30, 2007 at 11:58 am

And so the cycle of ignorance continues.

Other Comments by AtheistJunkie

4. Comment #19874 by smartypants on January 30, 2007 at 11:59 am

Watching this I'm glad I live in Europe...

Other Comments by smartypants

5. Comment #19876 by Quine on January 30, 2007 at 12:04 pm

I first saw these people covered in the great WGBH Evolution seven-part project. (see http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/evolution/ and http://www.current.org/prog/prog0111evol.html
especially the religion part http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/evolution/religion/faith/index.html )

There is a part in it where some students from a Christian college are taken out to an actual dinosaur dig where they can see the bones in the layers of the earth, and see that those bones had to have been there for millions of years. They also saw that the other students, preping to be scientists, were very excited and happy about making these discoveries. The impact of this on the Christian students gave me hope that truth will not be held back.

Other Comments by Quine

6. Comment #19879 by mintcheerios on January 30, 2007 at 12:48 pm

How is this not child abuse?

Other Comments by mintcheerios

7. Comment #19883 by Grandt on January 30, 2007 at 1:08 pm

Schools should start teaching the children in the basic scientific principles first and early on, teaching them what the terms really mean, how to use them, and to work with the ideas of how to prove and disprove hypothesis and theories. And how to recognize pseudo-science.
Then they can use those scientific principles to teach just why Evolution is a fact.

In my mind the primary problem with these people are that they are confusing true science with fiction.

Other Comments by Grandt

8. Comment #19884 by tall penguin on January 30, 2007 at 1:08 pm

Ha, that song rocks!

This reminded me of all the stomach churning stuff in the documentary, "The Jesus Camp". I fear for these children.

Other Comments by tall penguin

9. Comment #19888 by bruce on January 30, 2007 at 1:20 pm

Hey, let's try to find a silver lining here. Every society needs its mindless authority obeying grunts to do its dirty work. I figure by the time these kids graduate from high school, President Jeb Bush will be able to use them as cannon fodder in Gulf War III.

Other Comments by bruce

10. Comment #19889 by StephenH on January 30, 2007 at 1:20 pm

I felt so uncomfortable watching that first video, i'm just speechless !!

I wonder how we manage to live in a system where these deluded people manage to get jobs teaching children

I certainly agree, what was shown there, was a mental form of child abuse. They are too young to reason out a complex debate (Evolution v Creationism)

They are getting a very scewed story from the preachers, without anyone there to represent the argument from a pro-Evolution stance

Attempted indoctrination of young innocent minds
Just awful

Other Comments by StephenH

11. Comment #19890 by denoir on January 30, 2007 at 1:22 pm

Really disturbing. I usually think that it is amusing to hear creationists - a sort of circus attraction. There is however nothing remotely amusing in that first clip.

Such blatant and systematic indoctrination of children is really abuse - at least abuse of power on the part of the parents that put their children through such a thing.

Other Comments by denoir

12. Comment #19894 by RickM on January 30, 2007 at 1:59 pm

Well, folks. Welcome to the Dark Ages Version 2.0.

Wonder what the kids would say if they were asked what causes lightning?

Other Comments by RickM

13. Comment #19896 by Frostbit on January 30, 2007 at 2:14 pm

I can't watch that foolishness.

That gets me way to upset!

Other Comments by Frostbit

14. Comment #19902 by Sancus on January 30, 2007 at 3:06 pm

I hope videos like these show atheists that any pedagogy based on trust is wrong. Education must follow from experience or it is bereft of learning, much less a foundation for a life of learning.

Who should you trust first, God or the scientists?

Neither! Ask for the evidence.

I fear for children in conventional non-religious schools the same way I fear for them here.

Goodness, I fear for the people in colleges who are taught without experience. They're the victims of a scam and many will spend decades paying for it.

Other Comments by Sancus

15. Comment #19905 by Mango on January 30, 2007 at 3:20 pm

The theists teach their children young what the "truth" is so that by the time they open a high-school level science book they are unprepared to accept reality as presented by secular scientists. It's their strategy -- there's no other reason for them to be indoctrinating their children so stridently against evolution.

Other Comments by Mango

16. Comment #19910 by bornabaptist on January 30, 2007 at 3:54 pm

Sad, not surprising. It takes years to overcome this early age brainwashing by parents and authority figures. We are going to need a lot of money to fight this filth. Dig deep, donate. Send a book to a theist, email the video links, articles, etc... to local private religious schools, city, state and federal representatives, friends, relatives. Inundate theist's lives with science and reason.

Other Comments by bornabaptist

17. Comment #19914 by harryh28 on January 30, 2007 at 4:12 pm

Ted must have been really geting off when he was having gay sex forbidden by his delusional religion and taking crystal meth while he had all his idiots fooled he was some kind of morality figure.

Other Comments by harryh28

18. Comment #19917 by denoir on January 30, 2007 at 4:27 pm

Sancus:

Neither! Ask for the evidence.

I fear for children in conventional non-religious schools the same way I fear for them here.

Goodness, I fear for the people in colleges who are taught without experience. They're the victims of a scam and many will spend decades paying for it.

No, ask for methodology. Are you sceptical about quantum electrodynamics (QED)? Do you distrust it because you haven't seen first hand evidence? To get some experience you would need to build a particle accelerator. Suppose they let you borrow one. How would you know they are not trying to trick you? If you dismiss trust at all levels, you would have to build one yourself. From scratch. And not using any existing components as it would require implicit trust of those that built the components.

In short, there is no practical way for you to find out for yourself. You can more or less say the same thing about any technology and science that has been developed after the stone age.

Ask for evidence? Ask a bible thumper and I'll guarantee you that they'll list loads of evidence in favour of their view. How do you know who's evidence to trust?

I'll tell you why I believe in QED. At the university I attended a couple of courses in quantum mechanics where QED was covered. I put my trust in that the lecturer wasn't trying to deceive me. I believe that the alleged empirical evidence isn't faked. Why? What is the difference between trusting the lecturer and trusting a priest?

The scientific method. For the good professor to lie and make things up there would have to be a grand conspiracy of scientist worldwide to deceive people about their methodology. In my judgement that is highly unlikely.

The priest on the other hand relies on one single book. That book makes grand practical predictions and claims that are in many cases contradictory. It doesn't take much analysis to conclude that the book being wrong is not an impossibility. And there is no systematic error correction mechanism. Simply put, the methodology is rotten.

So how do I evaluate evolution vs. creationism. We can rule out the conspiracy idea - that either side is engaged in a massive campaign to intentionally and knowingly deceive people. I judge it to be infinitesimally unlikely. My first level of implicit trust is that I believe that the scientists (on average) are using the scientific method and the priests are using their holy texts (on average). All things being equal, which system is most likely to be vulnerable to error? Is it the one that is based on a distributed system of thousands of experiments or one based on a book written around the first century AD? Given the severe logical inconsistencies of the latter and that it is one single source, I'd put my money on the former.

In any way, trust is necessary. It is just a question of choosing who to trust. And this is more a question of rational analysis than of empirical testing.

Other Comments by denoir

19. Comment #19942 by raptur on January 30, 2007 at 7:30 pm

Comment #19917 by denoir on January 30, 2007 at 4:27 pm
"Is it the one that is based on a distributed system of thousands of experiments or one based on a book written around the first century AD?"

Actually, if you say this evangelicals will likely respond that the Bible was written over the course of two thousand years which is actually correct. However, if they're from the Wheaton sort of camp, they will also probably attempt to tell you that it has all sorts of confirmed prophecies and extra-biblical corroboration, and also that apparent contradictions resolve themselves on further examination. These claims fail in the critical places, but it takes some degree of familiarity with the texts to counter them.

What astonishes me is that I learned about all these claims and their supposed justification over the course of a private evangelical christian education from 7th through 12th grade (in the states). As a high-schooler I was able to connect the dots to the conclusion that the Bible is simply a very complicated and interesting cultural text. They have all this information as well (considering I got it from them), and the fact that they maintain their position in the face of it just shows that this is all dogma and not evidence-based science.

Although this conclusion is hardly news. Especially to this crowd.

Other Comments by raptur

20. Comment #19944 by JD Holding on January 30, 2007 at 7:39 pm

You know, all the surveys I've read say the best sex comes from male prostitutes... after you finish shooting up together, of course.

Other Comments by JD Holding

21. Comment #19955 by a tree with roots on January 30, 2007 at 9:17 pm

"God said it, I believe it, that settles it!" Yeah, that settles it alright...
I never get so disgusted with creationists than when I see them confuse children so severely with their lies. It saddens me. What's more, they'd probably say the very same thing about kids being taught evolution. Sigh.

And that one guy who wants to win a Nobel Prize made me laugh. Hey, he can try if he wants...

Other Comments by a tree with roots

22. Comment #19964 by Aussie on January 30, 2007 at 10:11 pm

Isn't it reassuring to know that the next generation of leaders in the most powerful nation on earth are being so well informed so early in their lives. This bodes well for "God's Own Country" retaining its pre-eminent position as the most scientifically and technologically advanced civilisation that the world has ever known.

God Help America! - the laughing stock of the rest of the world. How did this sad country ever put men on the moon? Why did I never see this side of the USA in my many visits over several decades. This country is rotting from the inside out. Why is the USA the only country so fatally afflicted?

As Sam Harris says the combination of great stupidity and great power is extremely dangerous. Hold on to your hats.

Other Comments by Aussie

23. Comment #19967 by Munger on January 30, 2007 at 10:52 pm

The first clip is nothing more than cult brainwashing at work. You need only watch it for a few minutes to see the method. Find impressionable minds. Repeat your message over and over again in catchphrase fashion. Use seemingly logical arguments ("Your grandfather didn't look like a monkey!"), and teach them early on to ignore any ideas which contradict this brainwashing.

It's worked for thousands years.

Other Comments by Munger

24. Comment #19972 by yokebutt on January 31, 2007 at 12:21 am

Us atheists do have a problem, we can't issue fatwas.

As for the second video, hmm--- every day? Must be some grim boinking indeed after a couple of years.

And finally, the "she climaxes every time" comment; like so many men, these guys won't really know their wives until they divorce.

Other Comments by yokebutt

25. Comment #19996 by Will S on January 31, 2007 at 3:16 am

One of the things which this disgusting video illustrates is a point which RD has made several times: 'reasonable' religious people assist the extremists.

For the propagandist could work on the assumption that his wretched little victims had already been taught that there was something 'special' about the Bible; that it's not book like any other book, but the word of God. Had he not been able to do that, he's have got nowhere.

Other Comments by Will S

26. Comment #20061 by linck on January 31, 2007 at 7:42 am

"It's just easy to explain to your children."

Yes, I totally agree with the creationist Mom on that one.
12 lousy years of school, more years of university, uncounted money for books - and still I cannot explain the whole universe.

It is just easier to stick to one book.
"God did it!" - any 3 year old can understand it and knows the meaning of the universe.
Hallelujah!

Other Comments by linck

27. Comment #20065 by Lionel A on January 31, 2007 at 8:15 am

Frightening stuff.

At least the outfit's title 'Answers in Genisis' is a little more honest than 'Truth in Science' who should be prosecuted for fraud, until one considers the deception of their answers.

Did that talking hay stack (5.26 clip 1) know even what time of day it was?

Other Comments by Lionel A

28. Comment #20075 by scot on January 31, 2007 at 8:50 am

God Help America! - the laughing stock of the rest of the world. How did this sad country ever put men on the moon? Why did I never see this side of the USA in my many visits over several decades. This country is rotting from the inside out. Why is the USA the only country so fatally afflicted?

Aussie,

The reason you never saw this side of the USA is because it isn't very apparent in most parts of the country and my experience has been that most people in America think these extremists are nuts and recognize the brainwashing. As an American living overseas it makes me cringe to hear statements like this because they are so onesided. Keep in mind that Separation of church and state are a reality in America, unlike some other countries where children have to excuse themselves if they don't want to sit through religion class. America has it's problems but it isn't rotting and it doesn't need God's help.

Other Comments by scot

29. Comment #20107 by Proud Okie Atheist on January 31, 2007 at 12:29 pm

But they do try to wedge this kind of "learning" into the mainstream. Especially around here...

http://wms.scripps.com/KJRH-TV/29/06pm.wmv

At about 2:00 minutes into this newscast, the story starts about actually putting bible teaching into public schools near here. There are more fundie churches here than you can shake a stick at, not to mention bible colleges! It is very frightening.

Scot is correct in that we have The Establishment Clause (separation of church and state) as part of the first amendment's protections. But even that is under attack and even totally ignored by the Bush administration.

Other Comments by Proud Okie Atheist

30. Comment #20109 by cheshirecat on January 31, 2007 at 12:39 pm

You have to laugh.....

Other Comments by cheshirecat

31. Comment #20144 by Homo economicus on January 31, 2007 at 3:10 pm

Job 40:15
'Look at the monster Behemoth; I created him and I created you. He eats grass like a cow,

BEHEMOTH: Some identify this with the hippopoatamus, others with a legendary creature.' The Good News Newcomer Bible.

The words straw and clutching spring to mind

Other Comments by Homo economicus

32. Comment #20156 by Aussie on January 31, 2007 at 4:10 pm

The reason you never saw this side of the USA is because it isn't very apparent in most parts of the country and my experience has been that most people in America think these extremists are nuts and recognize the brainwashing.

Scot,

No I think that the reason I never saw it was that my visits were to various scientific research laboratories, respectable universities and government agencies. I suspect that you find it not very apparent for somewhat similar reasons.

In my naivity I used to regard the US as culturally very similar to Australia and in the very restricted circle that I moved this was probably true. It is only in the last few years that I have become aware of the vast gulf that actually separates our two cultures. A prime example is the anachronistic "monkey trials" that are still tearing your country apart today and that leave me dumbfounded as this nonsense has not been an issue in Australia for over a hundred years if ever it was really an issue in the first place. Looking at this phenomenon playing out in your country from our perspective it appears to us as a sick B-grade farce. To put it bluntly it is very difficult for us to accept that it is really happening.

Another problem is the frightening set of statistics that include the revelation that the majority of your countrymen believe the earth is less than 6000 years old. This really becomes dangerous when you have a powerful fundamentalist Christian Zionist movement actively campaigning to undermine the peace process in the Middle East because they wish to accelerate the advent of the Rapture. Couple this with a President who believes that God told him to invade Iraq and you have a recipe for disaster. As Sam Harris says - great stupidity combined with great power is a very dangerous combination.

As an unashamed Americanophile I despair at the current state of your country as most of the rest of the civilised world looks towards you as the bastion of western democracy. Wake up America from your accelerating descent into intellectual and moral chaos before it is too late because you will rapidly lose your pre-eminent position as the global superpower and you will drag the rest of us into the abyss with you.

Other Comments by Aussie

33. Comment #20175 by jefferson on January 31, 2007 at 7:22 pm

"Wake up America from your accelerating descent into intellectual and moral chaos before it is too late"
Believe me, I wish I could just wake up and have all the religious people cured of their mind virus.
Did you see that video? No wonder it's so hard to reason with religious people (not only here in the US). They leave no oppurtunity to change their minds even if they are proven utterly wrong.

Other Comments by jefferson

34. Comment #20182 by tall penguin on January 31, 2007 at 9:17 pm

Is anyone else finding that "Behemoth is a dinosaur" song stuck in their head?

I watched the full "Friends of God" Documentary tonight. Disturbing to say the least. It's difficult to watch without feeling like humanity is doomed. *sigh*

tall penguin

Other Comments by tall penguin

35. Comment #20188 by Karalyn on January 31, 2007 at 10:31 pm

As a resident of New York City, and working in a university setting, I don't hear much serious talk about creationism in my day-to-day experience. For me, this is as shocking as when I saw a group of people in Times Square with signs saying "God hates fags" and "EVILution," preaching hellfire with their children in tow. Those folks came all the way from Alabama to yell at us godless, perverted New Yorkers.

Yes, it is all very scary, a complete outrage, and a form of child abuse. Would I believe religion over science? Considering that the fundamental principle of religion is to accept "truth" through faith and authority? In science, when a researcher presents a new finding, that finding is then presented at conferences and published in scientific journals. The journals are read by thousands of other experts, and the scientific evidence presented may either be replicated and established, or not replicated and refuted. There is an arduous, trial by fire that scientific evidence must pass before it is even close to being accepted as established fact. I trust this empirical process far more than relying on the testimony of a few elite church figures, just because they claim to have an understanding of what god wants.

In short, I hope that these children will eventually begin examining the evidence for themselves, and that this mind warping drivel does not impede their ability to question... although, sadly, I suspect that for many it will.

Other Comments by Karalyn

36. Comment #20214 by Will in Aus on February 1, 2007 at 5:25 am

You know what? I can honestly say that watching that video made me feel sick to my stomach. Never before have I witnessed such a display of, well, stupidity really isn't a strong enough word. This is an all time low. Really.

Other Comments by Will in Aus

37. Comment #20222 by scot on February 1, 2007 at 6:29 am

just a test, my comments aren't showing up for some reason.

Other Comments by scot

38. Comment #20225 by scot on February 1, 2007 at 6:41 am

Aussie,

My opinions are based on having lived in, worked in, gone to school in, travelled in, and observed America and American culture for the majority of my life. I don't think the fundamentalist wackos have the power that people think.

Where are these monkey trials that you say are tearing the country apart. Some people don't want evolution taught in schools but they aren't tearing us apart and I doubt that they will ever be successful.

It is said that 90% of Americans beleive in god, not that they beleive the earth is less than 6,000 years old. Correct me if I'm wrong, but if I am, then I have reason to be more concerned.

In regards to Bush saying that god told him to invade Iraq, I think this is a myth. Can anyone point me to proof that he said this in a serious manner, if at all. I'm not defending Bush, but it is so popular to hate him that the truth is sometimes stretched or ignored.

Other Comments by scot

39. Comment #20229 by John Phillips on February 1, 2007 at 7:08 am

From a scientific point of view I would consider this creationist indoctrination a form of religious pornography except that it would be insulting to pornographers.

Other Comments by John Phillips

40. Comment #20231 by John Phillips on February 1, 2007 at 7:33 am

scot: When you consider that only some 40% of Americas 'believe' in Evolution and the US is the lowest of all Western countries with only Turkey lower I think it is time to worry.

http://richarddawkins.net/article,555,Unscientific-American-US-Almost-Last-in-Understanding-Evolution,RJ-Eskow-The-Huffington-Post

A 2005 Harris poll found that 54% of the US believed in some form of creationims, up 8% from 1994 and in 2004 nearly 50% believed in an earth that was under 10000 years old, a figure that has increased even more in the last couple of years. Definitely time to worry.

Other Comments by John Phillips

41. Comment #20239 by scot on February 1, 2007 at 8:23 am

No doubt the level of irrationality in America is worrisome. However, I think the majority of Americans who are religious are more concerned with tradition than brainwashing their children with a literal belief in the bible.

A wikipedia search for support of evolution by religious bodies points to the Clergy Letter Project, a signed statement by 10,000 American Christian clergy of different denominations rejecting creationism. Also the National Center for Science Education found "of Americans in the 12 largest Christian denominations, 89.6% belong to churches that support evolution education." Even the Pope now recognizes evolution as more than a hypotheses.

The point is, the vast majority of religious people in America, while deluded, are not nearly as deluded as the ones in this video, regardless of what this poll or that poll says.

Other Comments by scot

42. Comment #20250 by sane1 on February 1, 2007 at 9:03 am

This is frickin amazing and nightmarish. No wonder adults can believe their bible nonsense. Its pounded into them as kids. And the hostility to science is terrifying.

Other Comments by sane1

43. Comment #20284 by FitzChivalry on February 1, 2007 at 1:46 pm

"I believe that the bible is literally true."
Because believing in a sky wizzard who is three entities at once, knows everyones thoughts, can walk on water, end is immortal is soooo much more reasonable than to know that dinosaurs existed millions of years ago. (Talking of which, what does the holy spirit do nowadays? He impregnated Mary, and then what?)

Living my life by scripture written by comitee 400 years or so after the events it describes "happened" is much more rational than relying on what I can see with my own eyes.

(Too much sarcasm, perhaps?)

Other Comments by FitzChivalry

44. Comment #20357 by Aussie on February 2, 2007 at 1:09 am

Scot,

The figures from a recent Gallup poll reported in Sam Harris's book Letter to Christian Nation are as follows:

1) 12% of Americans believe that life on earth has evolved through a natural process

2) 53% of Americans are actually creationists believing the cosmos was created 6,000 years ago.

3) 44% of Americans believe that Jesus will return to earth to judge the living and the dead within the next 50 years.

There is no other technologically advanced nation on the face of this earth suffering from such an astounding degree of delusion.

He concludes:

The fact that nearly half of the American population apparently believes this, purely on the basis of religious dogma, should be considered a moral and intellectual emergency.

I was first alerted to this alarming phenomenon on a commercial American website forum that I contribute to that is devoted to assisting professional programmers use a particular computer language compiler. The majority of the American contributors to the forum, apart from being very talented and helpful, are fundamentalist Christians holding the bizarre sorts of views listed above. They proselytise at every opportunity. This was surprising to me as I would have thought that programmers, of all people, would have generally operated their thought processes logically.

It is as well to realise that this state of affairs definitely does not exist in Australia, Britain or most other advanced countries. America for some reason that I cannot fathom is afflicted by a pervasive and debilitating malaise. Your experience suggests that you may have been living within a rather non-representative microcosm of your own country - similar to the one that I have visited so often.

Other Comments by Aussie

45. Comment #20419 by scot on February 2, 2007 at 10:00 am

Aussie,

I haven't read that book yet, it's on my list. I am from Northern California and Oregon which wouldn't be representative of the so called bible belt so you are right about that. As for statistics on this issue, I read that people are more likely to answer questions more honestly over the internet and these studies arrive at conclusions which aren't quite so alarming. I agree with you essentially, however sometimes I run into people who have never been to America and they see something like this and think we've all completely lost the plot. Who knows maybe we have... but the fact that Sam Harris and Richard Dawkins books are selling so well is encouraging.

Other Comments by scot

46. Comment #20453 by linck on February 2, 2007 at 4:08 pm

I let my little sister (9 yrs) read the Job passage on Behemoth, showed her the "Behemoth is a dinosaur song" and asked for her opinion.

She had been for one year in a christian studies class (learning about the bible) at the local church. We are atheist but we didn't tell her and we think as christianity is part of history and culture it is important to learn about it (we live in Germany).
At the same time she always learned about sciences.

Her opinion:
I don't believe the bible. It has non-sense (Earth created in 6 days, Noah's flood...) in it and how can anyone get the idea Behemoth is a dinosaur from these few lines?

The fact that it also says it is ok to hit children, sell them as slaves and that girls are inferior doesn't make the books more popular to her.

Other Comments by linck

47. Comment #21528 by krayzgerman on February 9, 2007 at 7:24 pm

Ted Haggard best sex is gay sex... hahaha. People will believe whatever they want to, but if they try theocratic action, oh man there will be serious debate/war.

Other Comments by krayzgerman

48. Comment #29101 by Veronique on April 1, 2007 at 4:01 pm

I couldn't watch these videos. The first video I did watch was the Jesus Camp. I, like the rest of you, felt sick.

Aussie and Will in Aus - isn't it awful that Ken Ham is an export from Australia. His businees set up is still in Q'ld though. So I guess there are a lot of kids undergoing indoctrination and abuse up in the deep North.

It depresses me so much.

V

Other Comments by Veronique

49. Comment #29404 by blip on April 2, 2007 at 7:38 pm

gotta get them while they are young, huh. about half of those kids will figure it out, though. and the other half will continue to pass it down.

You can't get too frustrated about religions like this one or tamer ones who accept some science. Religion will probably always be part of the human experience, unfortunately.

Other Comments by blip

50. Comment #31461 by thoughtsurfer on April 12, 2007 at 8:06 pm

Does anybody ever accidently book old earthers for a talk?

Other Comments by thoughtsurfer