










The Case for Teaching The Bible2. Comment #27757 by Steven Mading on March 26, 2007 at 3:10 pm
The fear I'd have with such a class, if I imagine my younger self having been enrolled in it is the utter incompatability between being honest and being polite to believers. It's one thing to make people literate about ancient myths nobody in the class will be a believer in - like teaching about the ancient greek pantheon for example - for the sake of basic cultural literacy. But when it comes to the bible, I just can't imagine a class where honest inquiry, like "hey, wait, this part contradicts that part" would be tolarated by the believers. And so it's not possible to teach the bible as a work of literature without getting too close to that fuzzy line between the desired goal of tolerance of a religion and the despicable goal of mandatory respectfulness and uncritical speech toward a religion.3. Comment #27760 by relevo on March 26, 2007 at 3:20 pm
Teaching the bible is too specialized a matter, akin to having a class on Kantian philosophy, for example. It's simply not something that should be in high school. I could understand something more like comparative religions, logic, or mythology in ancient literature, but to specifically teach bible is too much of a special preference for religion. I can understand having such a class at a university, but as it stands, it's a subversive tact on the part of politicians to pander to a religious constituency, which of course is a violation of the establishment clause. Here's to getting one step closer to Christian Sharia theocratic society.4. Comment #27762 by Spinoza on March 26, 2007 at 3:27 pm
5. Comment #27763 by jayalenik on March 26, 2007 at 3:32 pm
6. Comment #27766 by sbhatti on March 26, 2007 at 3:34 pm
As long as the kid is not pressured to feel one way or another I think this is great!7. Comment #27768 by Shuggy on March 26, 2007 at 3:38 pm
8. Comment #27772 by PaulJ on March 26, 2007 at 4:02 pm
9. Comment #27773 by jayalenik on March 26, 2007 at 4:04 pm
10. Comment #27775 by kcjerith on March 26, 2007 at 4:20 pm
"I just can't imagine a class where honest inquiry, like "hey, wait, this part contradicts that part" would be tolarated by the believers."11. Comment #27776 by TedGrant on March 26, 2007 at 4:27 pm
I read the Bible recently - all of it - and I should point out that unless certain passages are removed, then I don't think it should be read by anyone under the age of 18 and therefore it should have an 18 warning sticker and placed on the top shelf (adult only) section in bookshops. If you think this too severe, then read Deuteronomy chapter 25 verses 11 and 12. If that doesn't convince you then try the first Epistle to Timothy chapter 2 verses 11-15. I would quote them here, except a child may be reading this comment.12. Comment #27778 by Shatite on March 26, 2007 at 4:47 pm
13. Comment #27780 by phil rimmer on March 26, 2007 at 4:59 pm
14. Comment #27784 by tomjlawson on March 26, 2007 at 5:34 pm
15. Comment #27785 by MelM on March 26, 2007 at 5:38 pm
Note that the article is from April 2, 2007 Time Magazine--a big deal in the U.S."Take creationism," he offers. "Unless enthusiasticyou are literate in the first two chapters of Genesis, you have no idea what people are fighting about."
16. Comment #27789 by Fedler on March 26, 2007 at 5:59 pm
But , I have noticed that a great deal of the posts from atheists on all the sites seem to do alot of bible quoting. Since I come from a secular jewish family the bible wasn't a big thing growing up. Does anyone else see this or am I delusional.
17. Comment #27791 by davyB on March 26, 2007 at 6:08 pm
The fundamentalists would go berzerk. We know the Bible cannot stand up to scrutiny. Can you imagine the firestorm if the kids were taught what's known about the earlier origins of some of the myths? - or if the many contradictions were considered?18. Comment #27792 by TomKatses on March 26, 2007 at 6:16 pm
I think those in favor of teaching the Bible are missing a fine point. How much of the Bible will be taught? I don't believe a single class could teach the whole thing, and I am afraid it would be "cherry picked". The items mentioned by davyB would probably not be addressed. I know because my whole Catholic upbringing was one big cherry pick, and I took eight years of religion classes. It was not until I did my own research did I realized how immoral the Bible was.19. Comment #27793 by davyB on March 26, 2007 at 6:16 pm
A local (San Jose, CA) talk show took this up today. One raging fundamentalist called in and said that separation of church and state applies only to the Federal governent, not to the states. He cited some letter from the 1790's, and said, "The constitution hasn't changed." In fact, it did change -- in 1868. See the 14th amendment. When I was in grade school in the early 60's, we had to learn these things. Before we get all bothered about teaching religion, how about reinstating civics?20. Comment #27797 by MelM on March 26, 2007 at 6:38 pm
Here's a link to the Creation Evidence Museum mentioned in the article. A most excellent literary resource indeed!And, oh yes, there should be one faith test. Faith in our country. Sure, there will be bumps along the way. But in the end, what is required in teaching about the Bible in our public schools is patriotism: a belief that we live in a nation that understands the wisdom of its Constitution clearly enough to allow the most important book in its history to remain vibrantly accessible for everyone.
21. Comment #27800 by MelM on March 26, 2007 at 6:52 pm
davyB,22. Comment #27802 by MelM on March 26, 2007 at 7:09 pm
We'll just have to insist on "teach the controversy" and "teach critical thinking" within the "Bible Literacy" classes. Maybe a little sticker could be added to each book: "This is just fantasy, not a fact."23. Comment #27803 by brue68 on March 26, 2007 at 7:15 pm
I found a link: "The Theocratic Agenda Is Heading for a Statehouse Near You"
http://www.alternet.org/rights/48977/
24. Comment #27804 by tmg on March 26, 2007 at 8:00 pm
I say "Go for it." Reading Shakespeare and other classical novels was enhanced by my familiarity with Biblical references.25. Comment #27806 by atheisticism on March 26, 2007 at 8:33 pm
By all means, let's study the bible. It was the bible itself more than anything else that convinced me christianity was a pile of horseshit! I am quite certain that serious and thorough bible study would turn more godders into atheists than vice-versa. Atheists often accuse [rightfully] believers of being ignorant of their own holy book. Of course they don't read it, they want to believe it's true!26. Comment #27808 by MelM on March 26, 2007 at 9:13 pm
Link to a list of written descriptions of images in the Bible. "The ABC's of the Bible" Comiled by the "Freedom From Religion Foundation"27. Comment #27814 by exegesis_saves on March 26, 2007 at 11:01 pm

28. Comment #27816 by Steven Mading on March 26, 2007 at 11:19 pm
I have taken Civ I, which is a basic humanities/history ( I have no idea if they call it that every where else) class at KU. Almost always people come down rather hard on the bible, and rightfully so. Yes the believers in the class got pissy, but oh well, though we had a wonderful professor so maybe this would not be every ones experience. Also the Time article refers to high schools, but i would like to think class discussions could be critical of the bible.
29. Comment #27859 by relevo on March 27, 2007 at 4:19 am
I think those who claim bible class as a good thing for secular society are being foolhardy. The entire point the article makes for supporting bible class is that it gives people a finer understanding over many of the foundations in the US, yet what is not recognized is that by agreeing with such classes, you support the idea of having the bible be the foundation for US politic, and literature, as it has purportedly been traditionally. Not only is it necessary to take requisite government courses, but it also helps if you take bible class, because then you understand more of the fundamental tenets by which people run their government. When what should be asked is why ANY particular religious book should be explicitly singled out as great study material at a high school level. Why not the Mormon Bible, or the Koran? Even Thomas Jefferson owned a Koran. Why not the more ethical Thomas Jefferson bible?30. Comment #27908 by Kat on March 27, 2007 at 7:38 am
How many of you who believe this is a good idea live in conservative right wing Christian territory? I do. I live in New Braunfels. I do not believe it will be possible for Bible class teachers to keep from preaching. The author of this article seemed impressed with Ms. Kendrick's approach but then again, she knew she was being observed. Maybe she is capable of presenting the Bible without trying to convert students but it's my fear that she'd be the only one. I really think it would be entirely too tempting for a teacher to preach to students and in an area like this one if you're in the slim minority would you really speak out? Surely these tax dollars would be better spent elsewhere.31. Comment #27916 by Quine on March 27, 2007 at 8:23 am
32. Comment #27926 by ghostbuster on March 27, 2007 at 9:17 am
You said it well, Quine!33. Comment #27963 by Red Foot Oakie on March 27, 2007 at 1:01 pm
34. Comment #28003 by Fedler on March 27, 2007 at 2:55 pm
35. Comment #28026 by Civilized Worm on March 27, 2007 at 4:07 pm
36. Comment #28033 by PrimeNumbers on March 27, 2007 at 4:26 pm
37. Comment #28059 by MelM on March 27, 2007 at 6:36 pm
Are the two "Bible Literacy" curriculum organizations and their supporters interested in "Bible Literacy" or is this just another Trojan Horse with the aim of creating believers?"The Bible was the foundation and blueprint for our Constitution, Declaration of Independence, educational system, and our entire history until the last 20 to 30 years"
...
"The world is watching to see if we will be motivated to impact our culture, to deal with the moral crises in our society, and reclaim our families and children."
"Through your own children and friends is there a local principal, teacher, curriculum developer, superintendent, or school board member who would be interested in considering our curriculum? All we are asking for is a few minutes of your time and influence."Mobilizing the faithful for a literacy cause? Give me a break! This web site doesn't expose its real interests as much as NCBC does. The summarized material above, though, tells us plenty. At one point, she mentions teachers referring students to their "faith leader" or to the Bible itself for answers to theological questions. Staying inside of religion for answers is a bit limited view I would say. (I wonder what the answer would be if a student asked: "Is any of this true?") In addition, we have the background of Chuck Stetson, Chairman of the Board.
...
Summarizing some of Sheila Weber's (VP of Comunications for BLP) comments on Pilgrim Radio: "...the Bible is the foundation document for Western civilization..." "...unfortunately, because of the law, we can't present the Bible a bit more like it would be presented in Sunday school in a church setting..."
"It seems clear to me that Stetson, the 59-year-old founder of the BLP, has a sectarian, rather than an academic, motive for his campaign."
...
"According to a Sept. 28 column by Colson, Stetson is a "Wilberforce Centurion," a graduate of Colson's year-long training program intended to recruit Christian men and women who will "restore our culture by effectively thinking, teaching, and advocating a biblical worldview as applied to all of life." Centurions "make a lifelong commitment to…shape culture by living out a biblical worldview in their spheres of influence.""
...
"... but at the same time, there is little acknowledgement that the Bible has also served as a major resource for pro-slavery and pro-segregationist forces or that women have been — and still are, in many cases — treated as subject to male authority because of fundamentalist interpretations of the Bible."
38. Comment #28061 by MelM on March 27, 2007 at 7:07 pm
It must be pointed out that the BLP curriculum project contains lots more than just Bible reading. Note the sidebars.The student textbook [The Bible and Its Influence] is a hardcover, full-color, 387-page volume that covers the content of Genesis to Revelation. It is described as "a feast for the eyes" for its spectacular beauty and contains some of the world's most famous art, as well as sidebar features on how the Bible has influenced literature, poetry, music, art, history, public rhetoric, and Western civilization. Special one-or two-page features include Abraham Lincoln and the Bible, Handel's Messiah, The Bible and Emancipation, Shakespeare and the Bible, plus many more.I think I'll read such history elsewhere.
39. Comment #28067 by themoonsays on March 27, 2007 at 7:36 pm
Shameless self-promotion aside, I've tried to sum up my feelings about being surrounded on all sides by religious nonsense in my song "Jesus, Dirt Roads, and Whiskey." You can hear it at www.myspace.com/actualrabbits. Listen and let me know what you think!40. Comment #28498 by Dizzlski on March 29, 2007 at 12:14 pm
This article is very USA centric, and living there I would agree knowledge of the bible is lacking. However there is another piece of writing in which knowledge is lacking and should have its own 'literacy' class - the constitution. I think any country's laws and rights should be first and foremost in education, and religious text not so much; those countries which have them overlap are unfortunate. If one just looks at the USA then the bible is a big part of political and personal life; however in the world of today the koran is more 'important', teaching just one holy book is negligent, as is teaching the history (of any country, idea, and the world) without including religious ideas and influences. A comparative religion class makes alot of sense and should be available as an elective.41. Comment #28500 by John Hyperion on March 29, 2007 at 12:48 pm
42. Comment #28537 by MelM on March 29, 2007 at 4:35 pm
Another resource: Chris Rodda's "Liars For Jesus" book and other writing at the Talk to Action web site. (Note: It looks to me that Talk to Action is not an atheist site.)43. Comment #29193 by Veronique on April 2, 2007 at 3:04 am
44. Comment #54671 by AmericanHumanist on July 8, 2007 at 12:30 pm
45. Comment #66812 by Rising Ape on August 31, 2007 at 3:51 pm
1. Comment #27756 by John P on March 26, 2007 at 2:56 pm
On the other hand, a truly honest, secular approach to the Bible, one that teaches it, warts and all, highlighting its historical premises, pointing out its inconsistencies, may be just the remedy for rampant religious ignorance in this country. But who would teach it?
Other Comments by John P