1. Comment #34153 by fonex_86 on April 23, 2007 at 11:35 am

The first video was mind-numbing, stupid, offensive, and in general an insult to human dignity and intellect. I could not bear to watch it any longer after the first minute.

Brian Coughlan's response was excellent. I particularly liked that quote from an atheist professor from the very campus where the tragedy occured. It's so true, it's scary -- we, as pattern-seeking animals, tend to see patterns where there are none; we seek to make sense out of senseless things.

If it was known for a fact that god(s) didn't exist, then the more asinine among us probably would have invented one anyway.

Other Comments by fonex_86

2. Comment #34154 by Blue Monster 65 on April 23, 2007 at 11:37 am

Brian - I saw this in one of the other threads and meant to comment on it there: congrats on making a heartfelt, kind response to that horrible, mean-spirited affront to all those who lost loved ones in VA.

Viewing these two videos really draws the line between how to treat others with respect and how to grovel with the lowest mankind has to offer.

Kudos to you, Brian.

Woof! - Scott

Other Comments by Blue Monster 65

3. Comment #34155 by Corylus on April 23, 2007 at 11:41 am

Brian
You know what this means? You are now a director :)

Well done, I wouldn't have the first clue how to put that together.

Other Comments by Corylus

4. Comment #34156 by godma on April 23, 2007 at 11:49 am

That first video is yet another example of a Christian shooting himself in the foot by revealing the ridiculousness of his position to the world. The absurd implications and overall offensiveness of this video just help to make our case. How stupid does one have to be to actually believe that their loving and forgiving God decided to punish innocent students merely because our government upholds the first amendment?

I think that, on average, this video and others like it will actually backfire and help our cause more than that of the creators.

Other Comments by godma

5. Comment #34157 by pissinintothewind on April 23, 2007 at 11:50 am

Respect Brian.

Other Comments by pissinintothewind

6. Comment #34165 by Riley on April 23, 2007 at 12:23 pm

Looking at the Map of school shootings presented in that first video, I couldn't help but notice that the shootings disproportionately occur in some of the most conservative and religious areas of the United States.

By statistical averages alone, I'd expect to see the strong majority of the shootings to occur in high populated areas around Boston, NYC, San Francisco, and LA. If you buy into the idea that "Godless-Liberalism" is at fault, you'd expect that Boston, San Francisco, and Seattle would be overwhelmed by shootings and violence, and yet these are three of the most pleasant cities to live in the U.S. - lower divorce rates, lower teen pregnancy rates, etc. etc.

Why are these people so mind-numbingly stupid?

Other Comments by Riley

7. Comment #34168 by petermun on April 23, 2007 at 12:28 pm

Oh Mr Coughlan, I'm so glad I'm on your side - the side of humanity!

Other Comments by petermun

8. Comment #34170 by Pieter on April 23, 2007 at 12:38 pm

Was anyone else really bugged by the fact that they place the Taber AB shooting somewhere in SW Manitoba. I mean i know the provincial lines weren't on the map, but still...

nah, you guys are probably more bugged by the content than geography.

Other Comments by Pieter

9. Comment #34172 by John P on April 23, 2007 at 12:42 pm

That first video was originally an email, that circulated among the faithful. When I received it, I gagged.

Nice rebuttal, Brian.

Don't you love it when X-tians throw up such blathering nonsense and call it reason? God was kicked out of the schools? So God's not omnipotent? There is someone superior in power to him, that can kick him out of schools? Who knew?

BTW, where can I get a slice of that chocolate cake? It was very distracting. I totally missed the voice over in that part, had to go back and listen again with my eyes closed. Couldn't you have used a less delectable confection, like rhubarb pie, or something?

Other Comments by John P

10. Comment #34173 by SRWB on April 23, 2007 at 12:46 pm

An excellent, cogent and intellectually coherent response to the original piece of mental tripe!

I posted some comments on Youtube as well, but as usual they are ignored or glossed over with some BS that atheists don't know what we are talking about.

Pieter - as a Canadian, I also noted the geographical misplacement of Taber. Are you surprised that it was wrong? After all, the guys who made this video have bigger problems than Canadian geography (they can find God who doesn't exist, but probably can't find their asses with both hands either)!

Other Comments by SRWB

11. Comment #34174 by GeneMachine on April 23, 2007 at 12:46 pm

Re: Comment #34165 by Riley on April 23, 2007 at 12:23 pm

"Why are these people so mind-numbingly stupid?"

Have you read their book?

Other Comments by GeneMachine

12. Comment #34175 by Lordsuhn on April 23, 2007 at 12:50 pm

One thing I kept thinking was, "Man the religious right really likes straw man arguments."
My next thought was "why isn't basic logic required in all schools?"

Other Comments by Lordsuhn

13. Comment #34176 by firemancarl on April 23, 2007 at 12:55 pm

Brian,

Excellent response! I love the use of the Epicurean paradox. The first video was an absolute grandstaning move made by someone who obviously hasn't read the Bible. Well, maybe he did, but decided to leave out all of the killing, especially the killing of young children by God.

Other Comments by firemancarl

14. Comment #34178 by PeterK on April 23, 2007 at 1:00 pm

8. Comment #34170 by Pieter on April 23, 2007 at 12:38 pm

Was anyone else really bugged by the fact that they place the Taber AB shooting somewhere in SW Manitoba. I mean i know the provincial lines weren't on the map, but still...

Yes I noticed that too, and even commented on it on the Coughlan video site, though it's now way, way down in the stack. Yes, Taber is about 500 miles east of where it should be.

Other Comments by PeterK

15. Comment #34180 by Mr C on April 23, 2007 at 1:05 pm

The video sickened me as it should any rational person. I'm only sorry that we share a world with people that require it to be replied to. There are more enlightening things to put our minds to. But fair play for fighting the enlightening fight.

Other Comments by Mr C

16. Comment #34181 by infidel_michael on April 23, 2007 at 1:08 pm

This video makes a strong testable prediction! The scientific experiment could be following:

1. Allow God in schools
2. Try to shoot somebody in school

Result:
1. If miracle happens (for example, God stops the bullet in the air), God will be proven and everybody will be happy
2. If the bullet kills the test person, hypothesis "God allows student killings because he is not allowed in schools" will be falsified

Any volunteers? Author of 1st video?

Other Comments by infidel_michael

17. Comment #34182 by briancoughlanworldcitizen on April 23, 2007 at 1:10 pm

Hi Guys. What a cool 2 days it's been:-) Anybody with powerpoint, and some modest recording software can do this stuff on their laptop, it especially helps when you have someone (rtambree thx:-) for the Epicuris suggestion) to bounce ideas off, and a horde of godless infidels to call on when the commenting gets intense.

This is the way forward I think, we can make ourselves felt in the virtual public space, and combat the nonsense at source.

We are engaged in a global conversation about our future as a global people, and atheists need to be at the coalface of that discussion.

Anyway, thanks everyone, and kudos to Josh and RD for being good enough to give our modest community video that extra lift:-)

Other Comments by briancoughlanworldcitizen

18. Comment #34184 by Bizarro Dawkins on April 23, 2007 at 1:13 pm

I left this comment on Youtube under "Snarky15" and have decided to post it here as well.

"Hey Brian, Bizarro here. Nice movie, but the arguments aren't really very creative. When I saw your comment on RD's forum, I must admit I was expecting something a little more, innovative...

I have only two questions for the makers of this video. 1) Would God have been more loving if He had made us to be robots totally incapable of disobedience? -and- 2) Why do you blame God for the evil in this world (evil that we incidentally cause) and yet never praise Him for the good?"

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19. Comment #34190 by krogercomplete on April 23, 2007 at 1:25 pm

"I have only two questions for the makers of this video. 1) Would God have been more loving if He had made us to be robots totally incapable of disobedience? -and- 2) Why do you blame God for the evil in this world (evil that we incidentally cause) and yet never praise Him for the good?"

First of all, an atheist doesn't attribute anything to a god he/she does not believe exists. The question is, if there is a God, why would it allow the evil that took place at VT? Even if you assumed that God is also responsible for every good thing, that does not answer the question.

As for the robot argument, one might first ask what is inherently good or bad about being a robot? One might argue that being a robot is a small price to pay for a world devoid of any and all suffering. Isn't this what heaven is supposed to be like? Furthermore, what does God's choice not to stop this particular incidence of violence have to do with everyone being a robot? I imagine an omnipotent God could come up with a clever way to thwart the attack without infringing substantially on anyone's free will.

As for humans causing evil: omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent beings do not get a pass because humans make the choices. God has the power to stop it, God knows it is going to happen, God has to answer for his failure to intercede. I am waiting for a satisfactory answer from God.

Other Comments by krogercomplete

20. Comment #34202 by Jack Rawlinson on April 23, 2007 at 1:53 pm

God: "I am not allowed in schools"

Not allowed? Oh dear. Poor little god. His omnipotent, ever-loving hands tied by a minor restriction on religious practice in certain schools. What's an omnipotent, ever-loving god to do when a mere human law can keep him out of a place? I know! Send in a hitman to kill some random kids! He can do that! Ha! There's always a way!

The person who made that first video should be ashamed of his boneheaded stupidity and the profound depth of his offensiveness.

Other Comments by Jack Rawlinson

21. Comment #34203 by bruce on April 23, 2007 at 1:55 pm

I just have one question for Christians: How do you kick God out of schools??? I thought he was everywhere and knew everything.

Other Comments by bruce

22. Comment #34207 by Rtambree on April 23, 2007 at 2:02 pm

>20. Comment #34202 by Jack Rawlinson

>I am waiting for a satisfactory answer from God.

The trouble is, it's always possible for the nutjobs to conjure up a "reason" to explain the omnipotence paradox, or the problem of evil.

Here's ten ways around it just off the top of my head...

1. He's testing us.
2. He gave us free will.
3. All will be neatly sorted out and compensated for in the next life (God, the accountant).
4. Satan is responsible for the evil - he's testing us in a cosmic chess game for souls.
5. God does it to punish the wicked here and now and the people suffering (or their country) had it coming because they supported gays or stem cell research or something.
6. It's all part of God's plan.
7. The Lord works in mysterious ways.
8. Who are we to question the Lord?
9. Find some quote from the scripture that vaguely corresponds if your pattern-seeking brain is hyperactive.
10. The innocent victims are in a better life now in Heaven - God called them to be with Him.

And so on... the possibilities are endless.

Rationality doesn't work.

Other Comments by Rtambree

23. Comment #34212 by Corylus on April 23, 2007 at 2:10 pm

Good answer Kroger.

I do think though that we should all ignore Bizarro on this. For those that do not know him of old he is a student of Lynchburg University (yes of the Falwell fame).

One can see him in full technocolour glory on the following link (he put some questions to Dawkins at the Q and A session at the end):

http://richarddawkins.net/article,303,Reading-of-The-God-Delusion-in-Lynchburg-VA,Richard-Dawkins--C-SPAN2

RD made him look a brainless idiot and he has been stalking this site ever since.

I did feel sorry for him as he is not stupid and obviously has a promising brain. Aha, I thought, indoctrinated by Falwell, cut him some slack. Unfortunately, he appears to have graduated to the full self-satisfied, self-righteous smugness of his mentor. Sometimes there is no hope. Enough said.

BTW: I have just noticed on the afa video that this piece of tosh is 'available for purchase' Why?? Two possibilities:

1) So one can enjoy it in the privacy of one's own home, glorifying in the sense of one's own moral rectitude... possibly with a box of tissues close to hand?

or

2) To show to children.

Frankly, I do not know which scenario I find more disturbing.

P.S. If anyone wants to accuse me of being crass and unfair to Bizarro, fine. But, please, first look at his comments on this site. The child is not kind.

Other Comments by Corylus

24. Comment #34215 by Shuggy on April 23, 2007 at 2:23 pm

Love your video, Brian, especially the way the text doesn't match the voice-over, so you get plenty to think about. (I can't stand having a PowerPoint^TM read to me!)

But there are no direct links from the AFA one to yours at YouTube. I think that's because you haven't got "God" in the title or the keywords.

Other Comments by Shuggy

25. Comment #34218 by damianpeterson on April 23, 2007 at 2:28 pm

weefree - I agree completely.

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26. Comment #34221 by fonex_86 on April 23, 2007 at 2:31 pm

weefree,

Why do you think that the lecturer's statement is illogical?

Even though speaking out, in this case, may not be the best course of action, I doubt silence is any better. For one, we must remember that there are many who would fall for the AFA's ludicrous arguments, and many religious movements would probably seek to gain momentum from this event.

We need to speak out against these scumbags. Decades of silence hasn't worked anything for us.

Besides, it's not like we're yelling this at the victims' families or anything. Nor are we trying to gain from this tragedy, unlike the first vid.

Other Comments by fonex_86

27. Comment #34223 by Shuggy on April 23, 2007 at 2:32 pm

weefree wrote:

Let the people grieve. You can discuss it later.

Who's stopping them? How much later? I find this kind of "sympathy" repugnant. We're not bursting into their parlours and pushing the flowers aside and insisting they discuss the killer's motivation or whether "keeping God out of schools" had anything to do with it. Those who are grieving won't be going to YouTube or RichardDawkins.net, or if they do, they can easily click away from anything they don't like. When I've had a death in the family, I've sometimes welcomed a distraction.

Other Comments by Shuggy

28. Comment #34227 by thickslab on April 23, 2007 at 3:02 pm

The makers of the first video should have gone to a school where geography is allowed, not God. Then they would have placed Taber, Alberta close to Calgary instead of near Regina.

Other Comments by thickslab

29. Comment #34229 by Fishpeddler on April 23, 2007 at 3:05 pm

Comment #34207 by Rtambree
"And so on... the possibilities are endless. Rationality doesn't work."

I agree completely. Once you accept the Big Kahuna of all false first premises -- that there is an omnipotent, omniscient supernatural being who is engaged in our world and whose actions are beyond the understanding of humankind -- you have little reason left to dismiss any following claim as implausible.

Other Comments by Fishpeddler

30. Comment #34230 by scottishgeologist on April 23, 2007 at 3:06 pm

I must say that I am intrigued by this business of "keeping God out of the schools" Others have touched on this omnipotence thing. I was always led to believe that coming to faith was the work of the holy Spirit, that grace was irresistable and to quote C H Spurgeon "Defend the Gospel? The Gospel is like a lion - it just needs to be turned loose"

So surely, if God "wanted " to be in school, his Holy Spirit would NOT be resisted and the efforts of secularists would be thwarted?

I find this business to be a little bit like these Christians who talk about "letting" God into their lives and "letting " God talk to you through the Bible. Almost as if God can be shut out and controlled.

I dont find that sort of Deity very omnipotent....

Other Comments by scottishgeologist

31. Comment #34241 by SRWB on April 23, 2007 at 3:39 pm

I said basically the same thing on the YouTube site yesterday.....

"The believers on this site must ask themselves some serious questions like:
- if God is omnipotent and omniscient, how could God possibly be "kicked out" of anywhere?
- why didn't God intervene to stop this nightmare from happening in the first place? Did all those people deserve to die? If you believe that, you might need psychiatric attention!"

Other Comments by SRWB

32. Comment #34243 by HunterZolomon on April 23, 2007 at 3:49 pm

I just knew these bastards would jump at the opportunity to inject a healthy dose of God-fear into us after the Virginia Tech shootings. For now, I hope both sides of the ongoing debate will have the decency not to use incidents such as this one to promote their agendas.

Other Comments by HunterZolomon

33. Comment #34246 by FXR on April 23, 2007 at 4:02 pm

I wonder what this supposedly benevolent god thingy would think of his followers using the slaughter of school kids as a opportunity to gloat and promote.

Other Comments by FXR

34. Comment #34248 by tony the coastie on April 23, 2007 at 4:11 pm

Uh huh. Perhaps the Amish didn't have the correct version of god in their schools?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amish_school_shooting

How soon they forget. Silly xtians. I'll say it again until I'm blue in the face: Give a mentally disturbed person access to a gun, tell them their sins will be forgiven and they will live as an immortal with riches beyond dreams. Then turn him or her loose in society.

But those murdered must have sinned and it was god's will.

Other Comments by tony the coastie

35. Comment #34250 by MelM on April 23, 2007 at 4:17 pm

OT

Some piece of U.S. Islamic Imam puke has decided that Ayaan Hirsi Ali deserves a death sentence.
I dropped off a message of support on her blog; maybe a few others here will do the same. Frankly, I'm livid that some faith-head would condemn a person of independent mind.

And people can't understand why we want to stamp out religion!

Ayaan Hirsi Ali blog:
http://ayaanhirsiali.web-log.nl/ayaanhirsiali/2007/04/ayaan_hirsi_ali_1.html#comment-18956222

Other Comments by MelM

36. Comment #34251 by Fishpeddler on April 23, 2007 at 4:24 pm

Another interesting aspect of this notion that God was kicked out of schools is that it is simply untrue. There is not a kid in the US who could not spend the entire day praying in school, if they so desired. Certainly, this may lead to some trouble, but not for practicing religion -- ignoring their studies or teacher, or disturbing others if they do it out loud, is another matter.

To any extent we have erred in our policies in the US, it has quite understandably been toward the side of caution in trying to ensure there is no religious coercion in state directed institutions such as public education. Fundamentalists in this country consistently refuse -- or are emotionally unable -- to acknowledge that they are as much the beneficiaries of this as anyone. As has been pointed out countless times, but apparently to little effect, the separation of church and state isn't just protecting the state from religion; it is protecting religion from the state.

If little Johnny wants to pray to God to help him pass a test, or to read scripture during lunch, no one will bat an eye. To say that God has been kicked out of the schools is a deliberate distortion of the truth. Has organized religion been put under some restraints? Absolutely, but merely because organized or group events have been shown to create undo pressure to participate that is tantamount to coercion.

So it isn't God who has been kicked out of the schools, but only the people who would force it upon our country's youth. To them I say, "Goodbye" and "good riddance". Or, in the style of Heidi Klum, "Auf Wiedersehen!"

Other Comments by Fishpeddler

37. Comment #34261 by foxfire on April 23, 2007 at 4:52 pm

Very well done Brian C! The opportunistic mind-suckers that made the first video sure didn't pass up the chance to use this tragedy to push their agenda.

Other Comments by foxfire

38. Comment #34314 by Captain Yesterday on April 23, 2007 at 7:18 pm

"Was anyone else really bugged by the fact that they place the Taber AB shooting somewhere in SW Manitoba. I mean i know the provincial lines weren't on the map, but still..."

It's not the only error Pieter. I live just outside Jonesboro, Arkansas and was amazed to see in the first video that God seems to think we live on the other side of the state in Fayetteville. If these folk can't even get simple geography right, how can they expect anyone to take their insipid garbage even slightly seriously.

Other Comments by Captain Yesterday

39. Comment #34323 by Gordon Brown on April 23, 2007 at 7:48 pm

Here's my take on this loathsome video of the AFA: Let's suppose (for the sake of argument) that its premises are true: There is a God, and he's really, really pissed at us for all the malfeasances perpetrated most notably by school administrators, legislators, Hollywood types, recording artists, and so forth. Why then does God choose to unleash all of his wrath and fury upon mostly innocent children and young people, and their grieving families, instead of retaliating directly against those who offended him?

This video is a case of the post hoc fallacy run amok, and betrays the egregious stupidity of its producers and others of their ilk. For if God is truly as this video describes, that only confirms Prof. Dawkins's observation that he must be "a psychotic delinquent."

Other Comments by Gordon Brown

40. Comment #34344 by Richard Morgan on April 23, 2007 at 8:36 pm

(1) Would anyone happen to have a contact address or phone number for the « they » in the title of the first clip? Because if "they" can do that, I'd be open to them giving me some practical suggestions for kicking God out of a few other places.

(2) My heart goes out to all those suffering inconsolable loss as a result of the V.T. shooting.





(1) and (2) are not related in any way.

Other Comments by Richard Morgan

41. Comment #34363 by briancoughlanworldcitizen on April 23, 2007 at 10:02 pm

However I find the second video just as bad and for precisely the same reasons. It too will only appeal to those who share the faith and presuppositions of the author - and it too uses the tragedy in Virginia for partizan purposes.

You know, what is cool about how the debate is shifting, is how often the theists now say "You're as bad as we are!!". I consider that progress:-)

Weefree, taking advantage of people when they are at their weakest and most vulnerable, is one of religions primary operating principles, and a key vector in transmission of the virus.

Leave us alone, and I guarantee you, we'll leave you alone. Insist on promoting the baseless cosmic pyramid scheme of religion, and we'll be in your face.

Other Comments by briancoughlanworldcitizen

42. Comment #34364 by Tim Marsh on April 23, 2007 at 10:03 pm

It continues to astound me, how theists of various sorts (usually Christians, I suppose, but I've seen others) are so very happy to put up arguments like these, confident that the connections they're asserting are so intuitive and obvious to everyone, that they feel no need to demonstrate them. They will sit back and make implications, literally one list of things followed by another, without any claims of concrete causality, and feel that they've struck a blow for their side.
Simply astonishing...
And yet this luxury of inferring causation from uselessly broad and cryptic observations seems to only be enjoyed by those speaking on religious topics. If I were to cite previous decades worth of legalisation of abortion, outlawing of violence against children, and responsibility-oriented sex education in schools, followed immediately by "And yet now we're asking ourselves why our children have statistically higher overall IQs than they did in the 1950s", people would have a great deal of difficulty finding the connection I was implying. And so they should, there isn't one.
Is the strength of videos like "The Day They Kicked God Out Of Schools" that it simply links together things many Christians don't like, and attribute them to problems in the world? Is the causal link easy to accept for them, simply because they want it to be so?

I also couldn't get over how the video somewhat highlights its own lack of consideration of the issues, when it claims at the end that 'our children' 'have no conscience', 'don't know right from wrong', and it 'doesn't bother them to kill strangers'. The video can only be saying one of two things here.
1) This is a broad social effect, which all children brought up in this 'godless' environment are victim to, or,
2) This only selectively affects all the school-shootings kids, and the ones who will do so in the future.
Now, if the answer is 1), why aren't all of our children committing unphathomable amoral murders regularly? And if it's 2), what are the unique properties of these kids that make this 'overall influence' effect them and not others? Aren't those the variables we should be interested in, if all the other kids are harmless (dare I say, mostly good)?
In its uselessly broad crisis-mongering, the video exposes its own fundamental inadiquacy in offering any explanation for why school shootings occur.

Other Comments by Tim Marsh

43. Comment #34370 by Kimpatsu on April 23, 2007 at 10:29 pm

Yet again, that tired old lie hat Madelyne Murray O'Hair "kicked god out of school". What O'Hair did was end MANDATORY prayer; students are quite free to pray, and to read the Bible, during recess. But that's evidently not enough for the god-botherers; they have to force everyone to worship their god.
And, if we have to have god in school, then we'd better hire an imam quick. Or is that not what the anonymous video maker wanted...?

Other Comments by Kimpatsu

44. Comment #34388 by krogercomplete on April 24, 2007 at 12:09 am

Tim M.,

Never were truer words spoken.

Other Comments by krogercomplete

45. Comment #34406 by Logicel on April 24, 2007 at 1:42 am

Great post, Tim Marsh.

Other Comments by Logicel

46. Comment #34420 by gcooke on April 24, 2007 at 2:32 am

The first video is hilarious. It would easily fit into South Park or Family Guy. I find it hard to believe that anybody would be gullible enough to take it serioutly. It's ridiculous!

Other Comments by gcooke

47. Comment #34454 by Coel on April 24, 2007 at 5:50 am

In reply to weefree:

"Could you tell me one decade in the past ten where atheists kept silent?"

Most of them, if judged relative to atheists' numbers in the population (particularly in the US, the context here, but also in the UK to some extent).

Other Comments by Coel

48. Comment #34464 by Steever on April 24, 2007 at 6:38 am

I know it's a trivial error and we Canucks shouldn't be harping on it (!!), but the misplacement of Taber, Alberta in the first video is inexcusable, particularly in this day and age with all the knowledge and information we have at our fingertips. For instance, to ascertain Taber's general location, I went to Google, clicked on Images, keyed in "Taber Alberta", and the first image that came up was the following:

http://tinyurl.com/32lsh5

As you can see, it's clear that Taber is a LOT closer to the Pacific Ocean and a LOT farther away from the Great Lakes than the first video claims.

Or they could've gone to Google Maps, keyed in "Taber Alberta", zoomed out a bit and voila! Clearly, Taber is not directly north of North Dakota!

Yeah, yeah, I know. Trivial! But it does illustrate their disregard for proper research. If they can get something like this so radically wrong, what else are they completely misrepresenting?

Looking at where they placed Taber, it almost seems like they were simply too lazy or indifferent to consult an atlas, and thus just picked a random spot in the middle of the country. ;-)

OK, nitpicking session is over. hehe

Later,
Steever

Other Comments by Steever

49. Comment #34488 by whirledviews on April 24, 2007 at 8:06 am

Curiously, the Amish school shooting that occurred on October 2, 2006, at West Nickel Mines School here in Lancaster County, Pennsylvania is missing from the map. The shooter was Charles Roberts who wasn't Amish but was home schooled in a Christian environment. (His Mother works at Sight and Sound Theatres, a Christian organization that stages Bible plays in Strasburg, Pennsylvania, and they take Bible stories literally.)

Other Comments by whirledviews

50. Comment #34511 by kkant on April 24, 2007 at 10:04 am

krogercomplete writes:
Furthermore, what does God's choice not to stop this particular incidence of violence have to do with everyone being a robot? I imagine an omnipotent God could come up with a clever way to thwart the attack without infringing substantially on anyone's free will.

Exactly. Very well said. For example, God (if he existed at all) could have caused all the bullets to stop in mid-air miraculously. This would have been easy for him to do, since he is all-powerful, and would not have affected anyone's free will at all.

Other Comments by kkant