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Monday, September 24, 2007 | Reason : Children and Religion | print version Print | Comments

Document Keeping the faith at school

by Louise Brown, TheStar.com

Thanks to Linda Ward Selbie for the link.

Reposted from:
http://www.thestar.com/News/GTA/article/259739

class
Children from kindergarten to Grade 4 say the opening prayer in the library for the Primary Praise hymn-sing every Friday morning at Knox Christian School in Bowmanville.

Bibles open to Genesis, teacher Betty-Anne Rozema is telling her Grade 4 class at Knox Christian School what God promised Noah.

"God made a covenant – that means a promise – that He would never destroy the Earth with a flood again," she says as she walks among the desks checking Old Testament worksheets for this daily Bible class. "And I believe Him."

Up shoots a hand.

"But there was that flood in Peterborough!" notes a boy.

Without missing a beat, Rozema responds, "That's true, but God promised not to flood the whole Earth again."

At this sprawling country school, where 134 families from Newmarket to Bowmanville pay up to $12,500 a year to give their children a Christian education, the word of God strikes a daily truce with the news of the world.

Harry Potter is banned from the library – some families feel it glamorizes evil – but kids can bring their own copies to read.

Christmas is celebrated – Jesus, not Santa – but Halloween is not, to respect those opposed to its focus on fright.

The Bible is a considered a textbook here, just like the Math Quest, Spelling Workout and Language Power books students use to follow the Ontario curriculum.

You'll hear the word "God," but you won't hear the teen mantra "Oh my God!" That would be taking the Lord's name in vain, explains 11-year-old Meg Loudfoot, "which breaks one of God's Ten Commandments" and will lead to a chat with the principal.

"We do say `Oh my gosh,'" she admits, "but we pronounce the `sh' really carefully so people know what we're saying."

It is here, in a school where psalms are written on the blackboard beside the day's homework, where the younger grades hold a Primary Praise hymn-sing every Friday and where staff often start a parent-teacher interview with a prayer, that Ontario's debate over faith-based schools gets most tricky.

As the closest religious cousins of publicly funded Catholic schools, it is in schools like this, whose students hail from more than 20 congregations such as Baptist, Pentecostal and Christian Reformed, where the lines between private and public schools seem blurred.

Both Catholic schools and Protestant schools, such as Knox, hold prayers, teach the Bible for about a half hour each day, hire Christian teachers, infuse the Ontario curriculum with Christian values, hold worship services and teach that God believes marriage is between a man and a woman.

"I'm a little surprised (Premier) Dalton McGuinty says faith-based schools promote social segregation," muses principal George Petrusma, "because he's the product of a faith-based system – the Catholic system."

Does Knox Christian promote social segregation?

"Go to any public school cafeteria and you'll see kids segregate themselves, even though they're in the same building, " says Andrew Flint, whose four children attend Knox.

"I think my children are going to come out of here more open – and more equipped – to meeting other kinds of children just by knowing Jesus as the Messiah said, `Open your arms.'"

But while they're here, there's one faith on show. Every teacher hired must be a "believing Christian" who will start first period with a devotional message, offer a prayer before lunch dismissal and another before the final bell – including hopes for a safe bus ride home.

There is a comfort level, say students and teachers, in being among those who share your religion.

"I come here because other Christians are here. It's just so much more comfortable because I'm around students who understand," says Grade 7 student Kevin Small. "You're not scared you're going to be left out because you don't, you know, take drugs or alcohol."

Does he ever play with kids of different religious backgrounds?

Sure, on his rep soccer and hockey teams, "where only one player comes from my school." But he says what he likes about being at school with fellow Christians is "if you feel down, anyone will help you. And you can trust your friends to keep a secret."

Meg plays hockey with public school kids, whom she sometimes asks not to swear, with little success. "We're not, like, perfect or anything – we look the same walking down the street as other kids – but I just love it here because we can talk about God and not get funny looks. When my friend was upset the other day, I told her, `Don't worry, God will help you.' It was reassuring for her to know God cares."

What Knox Christian parents are paying for, and what Progressive Conservative Leader John Tory wants to fund, is education through a religious lens. But does that lens change the education?

Like grades 7 and 8 students in Ontario's public schools, Knox students are told abstinence is the healthy choice for teens.

Like their Catholic school counterparts, they also are told during health class that sexuality is a gift from God meant for a man and a woman who are married.

"Write on the board that No Sex + Married Sex = Safe Sex" reads the health curriculum document used by many Ontario Christian schools from the U.S.-based Christian Schools International – meaning that truly safe sex is either no sex, or sex within marriage.

"We say, God made sex — Yay God!" says teacher Stephen Janssen. "But He meant it as an expression of love between a man and a woman who are married."

Like Catholic schools, Knox teaches the Bible does not endorse homosexuality, but gay people are to be treated with respect and slurs aren't to be tolerated.

To Lawrence Hellinga of the Dutch Christian Reformed Church, who sent his four children to Knox and has two grandchildren there, John Tory's offer is a mixed blessing.

"We don't just sprinkle Christianity on top of the curriculum. It's a lifestyle here and I'd feel quite leery about the government sending us money if they wanted to tell us what we can teach," said Hellinga.

"It's not one hour of Bible study. The whole school is permeated with a Christian flavour."

Says principal Petrusma, "We do real school here.

"Two plus two still equals four. But it comes down to our world view: How did 2 plus 2 come to be four?

"That's part of God's creation."

Comments 1 - 36 of 36 |

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1. Comment #73192 by elfinabout on September 24, 2007 at 11:58 am

 avatarI'm either going to cry or vomit. I feel genuinely nauseated.

Other Comments by elfinabout

2. Comment #73197 by Zennalathas on September 24, 2007 at 12:11 pm

 avatarThe fact that a kid in grade 7 thinks he "understands" religion, and that so many others don't is just a scary thought...

One of my room-mates went to a school like this, and let's just say that I gave her a real wake-up call. She wasn't prepared for the real world at all, and actually does try to incorporate Jesus into every conversation we have. She loves to start religious talks, but when they involve atheists, or non-Christians she truly hates to finish them.

I haven't seen her make a single friend outside of the Christian community. It's just unhealthy...

Other Comments by Zennalathas

3. Comment #73205 by Acleron on September 24, 2007 at 12:53 pm

"We do say `Oh my gosh,'" she admits, "but we pronounce the `sh' really carefully so people know what we're saying."


Good, I see they do Hypocrisy 101.

Other Comments by Acleron

4. Comment #73208 by BigJohn on September 24, 2007 at 12:58 pm

 avatarHey, don't knock it. These folks have a choice. These are christian schools. If the parents wish to raise retarded kids then there is little you or I can do to stop them. Remember the First Amendment.

Other Comments by BigJohn

5. Comment #73211 by Theocrapcy on September 24, 2007 at 1:01 pm

 avatarI think this would be a great opportunity for one of those documentaries that follows these kids through the rest of their lives, just to study the effects of this abuse. It really is abuse, there's no other way to describe it. Inculcating a child's mind with such nonsense - no wonder people like Bush get into the White House.

Other Comments by Theocrapcy

6. Comment #73212 by nowoo on September 24, 2007 at 1:10 pm

I went to exactly this kind of private Christian school in Ontario for 12 years, and spent four more years at a Christian college in Michigan. I got a good education in most subjects, but I never learned about evolution and I wasted way too much time praying, singing hymns and learning Bible stories.

It took me decades to realize that all those intelligent, educated, respected authority figures from my childhood had been teaching me to believe fairy tales. If I'd been exposed to non-Christian teachers and professors, and material like Sagan's Cosmos or Dawkins' Growing Up in the Universe, I probably would have snapped out of my religious upbringing much sooner.

Other Comments by nowoo

7. Comment #73220 by notdeluded on September 24, 2007 at 1:39 pm

John Tory launched this issue about Faith-Based schools believing that he was buying more votes for his campaign. It turned to have the opposite effect and may make him loose an already won election. (I hope this is the case).

See how people think about this issue:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/Page/document/v5/content/poll/pollResultHub?id=66116&pollid=66116&save=_save&show_vote_always=no&poll=GAMFront&hub=Front&subhub=VoteResult

Gustavo

Other Comments by notdeluded

8. Comment #73225 by Nefrubyr on September 24, 2007 at 1:56 pm

 avatarI thought the "PRAISE GOD" on the wall in the photo was disturbing enough, but the article just gets more sickening. Picking out one quote at random:

But he says what he likes about being at school with fellow Christians is "if you feel down, anyone will help you. And you can trust your friends to keep a secret."

So, do they teach that non-Christians are unhelpful and can't keep secrets, or does he just assume that because he so rarely interacts with them?

I just can't bring myself to think of this isolationist cult workshop as a school.

Other Comments by Nefrubyr

9. Comment #73229 by the great teapot on September 24, 2007 at 2:17 pm

What a relief.
I thought it was Peterborough, England for one horrific moment.

Other Comments by the great teapot

10. Comment #73235 by Klaatu barada nikto on September 24, 2007 at 2:29 pm

 avatar
No Sex + Married Sex = Safe Sex


This must be a Canadian formula. In the U.S. it is:
Married Sex = No Sex

Other Comments by Klaatu barada nikto

11. Comment #73239 by Cartomancer on September 24, 2007 at 2:37 pm

 avatarSo gay people are to be respected and slurs against us aren't permitted, but they're still teaching that there's something wrong with the way we live our lives and the natural biological desires we feel? How condescendingly patronising! How blatantly hypocritical! How dangerously repressive!

I feel very strongly that schools like this should not be permitted anywhere. Freedom of choice has its limits. Would it be permitted, much less condoned, if some fascist group like the BNP wanted to set up a Nazi school which taught that, while you can't make slurs against non-aryan people, they are biologically inferior and should not be allowed to breed? How is this any different from what is going on in this vile travesty of a school?

Private companies have legal restrictions on the way they operate, why are private schools exempt from this kind of regulation? No, the only option worth considering is a complete ban on faith schools of all descriptions, public and private, and a stringent code of practice on ensuring that what is taught in schools is actually true and helpful rather than crazy and damaging.

Other Comments by Cartomancer

12. Comment #73258 by konquererz on September 24, 2007 at 3:15 pm

 avatarI graduated from a school just like this one. Its tragic, yes. But everyone realize, there is hope. I read the bible myself and deconverted just in time to start having kids. I have three kids all being raised to value and love reason, logic, and critical thinking. I'm not just an atheist, I am an avid anti-theist. There is hope for the child that realizes that something isn't right. Its at that moment that they will have to chose for themselves whether or not they want to move forward and see whats moving in the mist, or back away and stay in the darkness.

Other Comments by konquererz

13. Comment #73260 by hakija on September 24, 2007 at 3:19 pm

 avatarI'm surprised the class didn't arrange a "pretend" burning at the stake for the boy who bravely asked why god flooded Peterborough! Heresy!

This brainwashing troubles me deeply. It reflects the fraudulent compassion claimed by religion. It is a true evil.

Other Comments by hakija

14. Comment #73264 by EastCoastAtheist on September 24, 2007 at 3:48 pm

 avatarAmerica may be pretty wrapped up in religion, but at least we don't have publicly funded religious schools. I know public funds do make it to religious groups (Bush and his Faith Based Initiative nonsense), and I know Christianity often sneaks it's way into schools in some regions of the country, but at least people can take legal action to get it kicked back out. The idea of Christian public schools scares the Holy Ghost out of me.

"Two plus two still equals four. But it comes down to our world view: How did 2 plus 2 come to be four? That's part of God's creation."


How easy would it be to make these proles believe that 2+2=5 ?

Other Comments by EastCoastAtheist

15. Comment #73289 by jdb on September 24, 2007 at 4:32 pm

 avatar""But there was that flood in Peterborough!" notes a boy.

Without missing a beat, Rozema responds, "That's true, but God promised not to flood the whole Earth again.""

So God DID flood Peterborough! I new that town had the highest concentration of sinners.

Other Comments by jdb

16. Comment #73332 by chauvinj on September 24, 2007 at 6:54 pm

I too went to a school like this. As a matter of fact I was looking through some old boxes the other day and came across some of my old gradeschool report cards and this is what it said next to religion:

"RELIGION -- Joshua is learning to accept Jesus as his Lord and Savior more and more every day."

This was Grade 1. I was five going on six....

Disgusting.

Other Comments by chauvinj

17. Comment #73339 by notsobad on September 24, 2007 at 7:31 pm

 avatarand the circle of ignorance and stupidity continues

Other Comments by notsobad

18. Comment #73372 by Eric Blair on September 24, 2007 at 10:16 pm

At risk of sounding complacent, I suggest this school is pretty mild. It sounds like some Christian schools in Winnipeg, which are non-denominationally Protestant. All that means is they don't actually teach dogma, or at least not until high school when they've gotten rid of most of the non-core "interlopers" (these schools tend to be cheaper than other private schools, so some parents send their kids just to get that "private school" discipline).

This is in contrast to Catholic schools that teach catechism from a young age, and of course Muslim and Jewish schools that don't teach much else besides religion. But then the latter two don't often let the media in to see what they're doing.

EB

Other Comments by Eric Blair

19. Comment #73413 by irate_atheist on September 25, 2007 at 1:37 am

 avatarScum.

Other Comments by irate_atheist

20. Comment #73433 by Logicel on September 25, 2007 at 2:10 am

 avatarPathetically deluded adults indoctrinating children, teaching them that myths are reality, inculcating in them the dependence on the addicting habit of reverting to magic to console and soothe themselves when life gets tough. Very depressing, though several posters here managed to break from such indoctrination and embrace rationalism.

Out of my own seven-member Catholic family, only one remained a devout Catholic, 2 as strong atheists, 2 as weak atheists, 1 as an agnostic, and one as a deist.

Pretty dismal success rate for all that indoctrination. Makes you almost want to encourage indoctrination until you realize the waste and psychological damage and pain required. Better to just teach reasoning and critical thinking skills from the get go.

Other Comments by Logicel

21. Comment #73476 by Harko on September 25, 2007 at 4:18 am

chauvinj wrote:


"RELIGION -- Joshua is learning to accept Jesus as his Lord and Savior more and more every day."

This was Grade 1. I was five going on six....

Disgusting.


You went to a faith-based school. My daughter, who goes to a standard, non-denominational, state-funded school here in the UK came back with a report card from Primary 1 (five years old):


Religous and moral education: ..... has learned that the Bible is a special book.


Yeah, a special book in the same way as Star Wars is a "special" film :-)

Other Comments by Harko

22. Comment #73477 by rokort on September 25, 2007 at 4:24 am

 avatar
"I come here because other Christians are here. It's just so much more comfortable because I'm around students who understand," says Grade 7 student Kevin Small. "You're not scared you're going to be left out because you don't, you know, take drugs or alcohol."

Like grades 7 and 8 students in Ontario's public schools, Knox students are told abstinence is the healthy choice for teens.

Like their Catholic school counterparts, they also are told during health class that sexuality is a gift from God meant for a man and a woman who are married.

"Write on the board that No Sex + Married Sex = Safe Sex" reads the health curriculum document used by many Ontario Christian schools from the U.S.-based Christian Schools International – meaning that truly safe sex is either no sex, or sex within marriage.


Am i getting old or are these subjects: drugs, alcohol, and sex something a 7th grader can't or shouldn't know too much about first hand so anything they claim to know here can hardly be their own opinion? Next to the disgusting insinuation that without doing drugs or alcohol you won't make friends in the 'non-Christian world' of course.

(which means QED for RD on the stance of 'mental child-abuse')

ps: Richard Morgan; 'rokort' is short for Roderik Kortlever. 'ro' is what my friends call me and 'kort' is Dutch for 'short', so since Roderik Kortlever is quite a mouthfull i like the abbreviation to 'rokort', to make my name 'kort'. I have used it ever since my first swim on the web somewhere halfway the nineties and never bothered to change it.

Other Comments by rokort

23. Comment #73478 by Matt7895 on September 25, 2007 at 4:30 am

 avatarWe in the UK might say 'only in America' but the truth is some schools here are starting to get like this.

True we've always had Church of England-funded schools, like the one I went to, but the most religious thing we did in that was sing hymns and occasionally do the odd prayer in assembly. As the teachers become more and more liberalise and secular, hymns and prayers vanished. I remember my teacher in year 6, Mr. Burgess, flatly refused to do hymns or prayers in any of the assemblies he led, and in the classroom he refused to teach R.E., or when he was forced to, he did so jokingly. In science class, we were never taught creationism. It was all photosynthesis, how sound travels, how mould forms, simple but important things like that. I of course did not go to a Catholic school where I hear things are a lot more strict. But even there, the teachers must teach evolution in science lessons.

We might say the really dangerous religious indoctrination in schools only happens in America, but we're getting state-funded faith schools here now, which I hear will be able to make their own choices as to whether they teach evolution or intelligent design. As you all know it is wrong, and I beseech any fellow Briton here to sign the following petition to the Prime Minister:

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/faithschools/

Other Comments by Matt7895

24. Comment #73482 by Crazymalc on September 25, 2007 at 4:36 am

 avatar"But there was that flood in Peterborough!" notes a boy.

Give that kid a cookie. Good thinking young man.

Other Comments by Crazymalc

25. Comment #73487 by Philip1978 on September 25, 2007 at 4:53 am

 avatarAm with Crazymalc on that one, I love it when kids provide such amazing observations, pity the poor little bugger is being told such lies, I blame the sodding parents!

Thank goodness for my upbringing that included Pink Floyd
"HEY, TEACHER, LEAVE THEM KIDS ALONE!"

Philip

Other Comments by Philip1978

26. Comment #73496 by somersetsimon on September 25, 2007 at 5:29 am

 avatarQuote "

You went to a faith-based school. My daughter, who goes to a standard, non-denominational, state-funded school here in the UK came back with a report card from Primary 1 (five years old):


Religous and moral education: ..... has learned that the Bible is a special book.



Yeah, a special book in the same way as Star Wars is a "special" film

"

My 6 year old son goes to a Church of England Voluntary Aided school. This means that, like all the local schools in the area, the land and buildings are owned by the Diocese of Bath and Wells, so they get an input into the ethos of the school. They aren't too religious, but there is an attachment to the local church and it is assumed that you are a believer.

We keep reminding him that lots of people believe different things. This was an easy subject to get into - he is interested in Egyptian history, so we can talk about all the different deities that they believed in and that everyone knows now that none of this was true.

After breakfast this morning, he suddenly piped up with "some people believe in god, but he's not real, he's just a story. If something is real you have to prove it. Little children think the tooth fairy is real, but it's not really". He then carried on playing with his Lego Bionicles.

That's my boy!

PS can someone remind me how to include block quotes?

Other Comments by somersetsimon

27. Comment #73504 by black wolf on September 25, 2007 at 6:07 am

 avatarLies? Delusion?
Default religiosponse(TM): Prove It!

Other Comments by black wolf

28. Comment #73507 by Matt7895 on September 25, 2007 at 6:12 am

 avatarSimon, that's a great story. I'm only 19, a little young to have children but I fear someday that when I do, they might turn out to be religious nutjobs despite how I may try to bring them up. Glad to see its working just fine with your kid, makes the future seem much brighter!

Other Comments by Matt7895

29. Comment #73514 by somersetsimon on September 25, 2007 at 6:56 am

 avatar"Simon, that's a great story. I'm only 19, a little young to have children but I fear someday that when I do, they might turn out to be religious nutjobs despite how I may try to bring them up. Glad to see its working just fine with your kid, makes the future seem much brighter!"

We make a point of not telling him what to think about things, just how to think about things. We have told him that we don't believe in God, but other people do. Also, if someone tells you that they believe something then it is ok to ask them why they believe it. Earlier this year, we took our kids to a zoo/farm (http://www.noahsarkzoofarm.co.uk/) which turned out to be run by creationists. They had lots of posters on the walls describing how Noah carried all the animals (including dinosaurs) on the ark. After looking at all the 'evidence', his view was "they are all crazy"

Other Comments by somersetsimon

30. Comment #73515 by Northern Bright on September 25, 2007 at 7:02 am

 avatar
PS can someone remind me how to include block quotes?


Easy.

You type: <
then: blockquote
then: >
Then you write your text.
Then you type: <
then: /blockquote
then: >

If you click "preview" before "submit", you'll be able to check that it's worked.

Other Comments by Northern Bright

31. Comment #73520 by Ian in OH on September 25, 2007 at 7:25 am

Harry Potter is banned from the library – some families feel it glamorizes evil – but kids can bring their own copies to read.

Christmas is celebrated – Jesus, not Santa – but Halloween is not, to respect those opposed to its focus on fright.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

First, if these kids get presents on Christmas morning, who do they think brings them, with Santa out of the equation?

Second, Halloween is not celebrated because of its focus on fright, huh? This is of course contrasted with warm and fuzzy Yahweh in the Old Testament.

And third, far from glamorizing evil, there's more good lessons on ethics and morality in any one of the Harry Potter books (esp the latter ones) than in the entirety of the Bible. Courage, bravery, loyalty, friendship, self-sacrifice, love...Yeah, why would kids need any exposure to these things when we all know the series is really about getting them to be good little witches and wizards and doing magic (as opposed to worshipping a Middle Eastern carpenter).

Other Comments by Ian in OH

32. Comment #73521 by Cartomancer on September 25, 2007 at 7:27 am

 avatarYeah, I learned all my childhood lessons in morality by watching Transformers, Knightmare and He-man!

Other Comments by Cartomancer

33. Comment #73664 by Double Bass Atheist on September 25, 2007 at 7:19 pm

 avatarsomersetsimon –
I really enjoyed the story about your son! Thanks for sharing… and here's mine:
I am a classical musician and as such, I frequently perform at many churches around the Christian holidays (hey, even as an atheist – a gig's a gig, ya know!). Last Christmas, I took my 9 year old son with me to this huge production in one of the those mega-churches we have too many of in the US… 70-piece orchestra, 100+ in the vocal ensemble, lasers, pyrotechnics… you get the idea.
My son and I have never seriously talked about religion. It's never come up. It's simply not part of our life. Well, walking out to my car after this gig, my son says, "Dad, can I ask you a question?"
"Certainly. You can ask me anything."
"I don't understand these people," he says. "To believe all this stuff, you have to believe in magic, but these people hate Harry Potter, and that's magic. They should love Harry Potter!"
I was both laughing at this commentary and amazed at his rational, clear headed thinking. Needless to say, I was very proud of my kid that night and all the way home, we had a long (and very humorous) chat about all the various religions and their BS.

Other Comments by Double Bass Atheist

34. Comment #73856 by Fezik on September 26, 2007 at 11:22 am

Just a quick note for BigJohn:

This story is about a Canadian school. So no US constitution is involved, and no 1st amendment.

Other Comments by Fezik

35. Comment #74286 by BaronOchs on September 28, 2007 at 3:33 am

 avatarEven if I was convinced there is a creator god I would still say mathematics is independent of the will of any being divine or otherwise.

Do they think god could have had 2+2=anything else than 4 if he'd wanted? or simply not bothered to "create" mathematical truths?

Delusion!

Other Comments by BaronOchs

36. Comment #211679 by dunny1 on July 16, 2008 at 8:45 am

jesus wept ....


Adam and eve weren't married ...they did it ...

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