Wednesday, November 14, 2007 | Science : Evolution and Biology | print version

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Why Science Will Triumph Only When Theory Becomes Law

by Clive Thompson

Reposted from:
http://www.wired.com/techbiz/people/magazine/15-11/st_thompson

Creationists and intelligent-design boosters have a guerrilla tactic to undermine textbooks that don't jibe with their beliefs. They slap a sticker on the cover that reads, EVOLUTION IS A THEORY, NOT A FACT, REGARDING THE ORIGIN OF LIVING THINGS.

This is the central argument of evolution deniers: Evolution is an unproven "theory." For science-savvy people, this is an incredibly annoying ploy. While it's true that scientists refer to evolution as a theory, in science the word theory means an explanation of how the world works that has stood up to repeated, rigorous testing. It's hardly a term of disparagement.

But for most people, theory means a haphazard guess you've pulled out of your, uh, hat. It's an insult, really, a glib way to dismiss a point of view: "Ah, well, that's just your theory." Scientists use theory in one specific way, the public another — and opponents of evolution have expertly exploited this disconnect.

Turns out, the real culture war in science isn't about science at all — it's about language. And to fight this war, we need to change the way we talk about scientific knowledge.

Scientists are already pondering this. Last summer, physicist Helen Quinn sparked a lively debate among her colleagues with an essay for Physics Today arguing that scientists are too tentative when they discuss scientific knowledge. They're an inherently cautious bunch, she points out. Even when they're 99 percent certain of a theory, they know there's always the chance that a new discovery could overturn or modify it.

So when scientists talk about well-established bodies of knowledge — particularly in areas like evolution or relativity — they hedge their bets. They say they "believe" something to be true, as in, "We believe that the Jurassic period was characterized by humid tropical weather."

This deliberately nuanced language gets horribly misunderstood and often twisted in public discourse. When the average person hears phrases like "scientists believe," they read it as, "Scientists can't really prove this stuff, but they take it on faith." ("That's just what you believe" is another nifty way to dismiss someone out of hand.)

Of course, antievolution crusaders have figured out that language is the ammunition of culture wars. That's why they use those stickers. They take the intellectual strengths of scientific language — its precision, its carefulness — and wield them as weapons against science itself.

The defense against this: a revamped scientific lexicon. If the antievolutionists insist on exploiting the public's misunderstanding of words like theory and believe, then we shouldn't fight it. "We need to be a bit less cautious in public when we're talking about scientific conclusions that are generally agreed upon," Quinn says.

What does she suggest? For truly solid-gold, well-established science, let's stop using the word theory entirely. Instead, let's revive much more venerable language and refer to such knowledge as "law." As with Newton's law of gravity, people intuitively understand that a law is a rule that holds true and must be obeyed. The word law conveys precisely the same sense of authority with the public as theory does with scientists, but without the linguistic baggage.

Evolution is supersolid. We even base the vaccine industry on it: When we troop into the doctor's office each winter to get a flu shot — an inoculation against the latest evolved strains of the disease — we're treating evolution as a law. So why not just say "the law of evolution"?

Best of all, it performs a neat bit of linguistic jujitsu. If someone says, "I don't believe in the theory of evolution," they may sound fairly reasonable. But if someone announces, "I don't believe in the law of evolution," they sound insane. It's tantamount to saying, "I don't believe in the law of gravity."

It's time to realize that we're simply never going to school enough of the public in the precise scientific meaning of particular words. We're never going to fully communicate what's beautiful and noble about scientific caution and rigor. Public discourse is inevitably political, so we need to talk about science in a way that wins the political battle — in no uncertain terms.

At least, that's my theory.

Email clive@clivethompson.net.

Posted: Wednesday, November 14, 2007 | Permalink

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501. Comment #96225 by walk on December 10, 2007 at 7:39 am

So if the woman in question is yelling, "Oh My God, Oh My God!", it might be difficult to decide if she's crying out in protest, or just having a good time fulfilling the wonderful sexual desires that God, in his divine wisdom, has provided all his children.

Other Comments by walk

502. Comment #96671 by Ruht on December 10, 2007 at 8:14 pm

"...stop using the Bible to justify it, capital letters are not helping either, if you happen to agree with what disgustingly vile books like Deuteronomy, Leviticus, Judges, Genesis etc then I don't have much hope or respect for you"

--

The Bible seems wrong to you because you are not born of God. You therefore cannot understand it properly nor interpret it properly:

"But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned." - I Corinthians 2:14

You can therefore not see what the saved can see.

You will never understand the Bible unless and/or until you are born of the Holy Spirit; then the veil that is over your eyes and heart will be removed by God, and you will see everything as it really is:

"But their minds were blinded: for unto this day remaineth the same veil untaken away in the reading of the old testament: which veil is done away in Christ. But even unto this day when Moses is read, the veil is upon their heart. Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the veil shall be taken away." - II Corinthians 3:14-16

You have the spirit of sin living within you (Ephesians 2:2; etc.). You therefore are in enmity against God and the things of God:

"Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be." - Romans 8:7

The only way to have the spirit of sin removed from you is to be saved. And salvation only comes through faith in what Christ did for you on a cross a Calvary. Upon salvation, God supernaturally removes the spirit of sin from the new believer, and puts into the believer his Holy Spirit instead. And such a person is then forever born again, and then has the spirit of the author who wrote the Bible living in his own spirit/heart, and such a person then has the ability to start properly interpreting and properly understanding the Bible for the very first time.

God bless

Other Comments by Ruht

503. Comment #96676 by Diacanu on December 10, 2007 at 8:20 pm

Fascist crackpot.

Other Comments by Diacanu

504. Comment #96682 by Don_Quix on December 10, 2007 at 8:26 pm

It's people like this that reaffirm my belief (oops...maybe I should say suspicion...heheh) that the fervent acceptance of religion is a form of mental illness to varying degrees in different people. Some people have mild forms of the illness and are able to manage it without it affecting their lives too much. While others go off the deep end and are almost entirely consumed by their horrible affliction.

Or perhaps it is just that the mentally ill, or those with the propensity towards mental illness, are more susceptible to the rantings and ravings present in the ancient texts. Maybe they see all the madness as a reflection of themselves and find it somehow comforting. I don't know.

Seek professional help.

Sincerely,
- The Lord

Other Comments by Don_Quix

505. Comment #96690 by Goldy on December 10, 2007 at 8:38 pm

Ruht, regarding comment 480
You need a belief in God - you're too stupid to get by in the real world. Sad to see they let you on the computer before they give you your pills.
No wonder I'm an athiest - no fucking way would I ever even consider myself to be in the same religious camp you as you. Never mind lowest common denominator, you are rock bottom. You are where the bell curve begins. A rock has more intelligence than you and I'm talking a stupid rock.
Is this what Christianity has done to you? I hope so - we were all born athiest and you'd be a poster boy for the religious masses had you not fugged your mind.
I can see debate with you is as meaningful as a wank. You have piss all to offer - I'd put you right there with Corona and American Budweiser in that respect and I say that as a pot bellied beer lover. You are as convincing as a...shit, there is nothing - you are not convincing. Your type make people like me flee from God! If you are an example of his followers, there's no way on this good earth I'd undergo the lobotomy you must surely have had performed to become as jaw-droppingly stupid as you sound.
I say troll this person - he has, after quite a few chances and pages of "contributions" (what a fucking misnomer that is!), said nothing of sense or even intelligence (and we've had more than a few theists who, while fundamentalist, could engage in conversation at least!). Troll this fuckwit and save the theists who want to argue the embarrasment
EDIT

The Bible seems wrong to you because you are not born of God. You therefore cannot understand it properly nor interpret it properly:

Oh, c'mon! He's calling himself Jesus now! What fucking next? Napoleon?? Troll the fuckwit!

Other Comments by Goldy

506. Comment #96694 by Diacanu on December 10, 2007 at 8:44 pm

Goldy-

LOL!! I actually thought pretty much all that, but I wanted to save the keystrokes for something more productive like scrolling porn, so went with my more concise version.
;)

Other Comments by Diacanu

507. Comment #96695 by Ruht on December 10, 2007 at 8:46 pm

"It's people like this that reaffirm my belief (oops...maybe I should say suspicion...heheh) that the fervent acceptance of religion is a form of mental illness to varying degrees in different people. Some people have mild forms of the illness and are able to manage it without it affecting their lives too much. While others go off the deep end and are almost entirely consumed by their horrible affliction.

Or perhaps it is just that the mentally ill, or those with the propensity towards mental illness, are more susceptible to the rantings and ravings present in the ancient texts. Maybe they see all the madness as a reflection of themselves and find it somehow comforting. I don't know.

Seek professional help."

--

"For God hath not given us the spirit of fear, but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind." - I Timothy 1:7

It is the unsaved in need of a physician.

God bless

Other Comments by Ruht

508. Comment #96697 by Diacanu on December 10, 2007 at 8:48 pm

Ruht-

It is the unsaved in need of a physician.

Threats now, crackpot?

Yeah, put your mental instability on parade and prove us right.

Other Comments by Diacanu

509. Comment #96700 by Ruht on December 10, 2007 at 8:53 pm

"Oh, c'mon! He's calling himself Jesus now! What fucking next? Napoleon?? Troll the fuckwit!"

--

"Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." - Jesus Christ, John 3:3

Other Comments by Ruht

510. Comment #96701 by Don_Quix on December 10, 2007 at 8:55 pm

*Cue looney toons music*

Other Comments by Don_Quix

511. Comment #96703 by Dr Benway on December 10, 2007 at 8:59 pm

The Bible seems wrong to you because you are not born of God. You therefore cannot understand it properly nor interpret it properly.

Uh... that's one hypothesis. Honesty requires you to consider alternative hypotheses.

Other Comments by Dr Benway

512. Comment #96707 by Goldy on December 10, 2007 at 9:05 pm

M'Lud, I rest my case. And further to that, may I say I believe Timothy did not have Ruht in mind when he said "For God hath not given us the spirit of fear, but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind" for power has he none, neither love and most deifinitely no soundness of mind, but fear, and fear lone, to sustain him.
Troll him.

Other Comments by Goldy

513. Comment #96715 by Ruht on December 10, 2007 at 9:12 pm

"Blessed are ye, when men shall hate you, and when they shall separate you from their company, and shall reproach you, and cast out your name as evil, for the Son of man's sake." - Jesus Christ, Luke 6:22

God bless

Other Comments by Ruht

514. Comment #96721 by Diacanu on December 10, 2007 at 9:18 pm

Ruht-

You done making poopy?
Can we throw the diaper in the bin, or you got another loaf for us?

Other Comments by Diacanu

515. Comment #96728 by Dr Benway on December 10, 2007 at 9:26 pm

Guess honesty's not your strong suit, Ruht.

Other Comments by Dr Benway

516. Comment #96787 by Goldy on December 10, 2007 at 10:49 pm

....and cast out your name as evil....
Aaah, but this is evil Luke is telling us Jesus apparently said. You're just common or garden stupid.

Other Comments by Goldy

517. Comment #96831 by Philip1978 on December 11, 2007 at 1:52 am

Ruht

That was not an apology, you just quoted the Bible back at me

This really sickens me that you can be so cold and absent from real life, I gave you the chance to apologise and you just spat some Biblical phrases at me that mean nothing.

Really, when your best friend is raped and that you could do nothing about it I think you may be in a better position think about just how offended I am by your suggestion that I am not "saved" or "born of God".

I am not usually one to say bad things about people, I always see if I can look for the best in them, but you I will make an exception for, there is nothing good in you at all

Philip

Other Comments by Philip1978

518. Comment #96834 by epeeist on December 11, 2007 at 2:01 am

Comment #96831 by Philip1978

I am not usually one to say bad things about people, I always see if I can look for the best in them, but you I will make an exception for, there is nothing good in you at all

Indeed, he hasn't answered my questions directly but reading the rest of his posts it would seem that he has no problems consigning all Hindus, Buddhists, followers of the Great Spirit and (especially?) atheists to damnation when the Rapture comes.

He belongs on this site, but in the "Ugly" part of the "Good, Bad, Ugly" section.

Other Comments by epeeist

519. Comment #96844 by BMMcArdle on December 11, 2007 at 2:20 am

Instead of being born again, why not just grow up? ~Author Unknown

Other Comments by BMMcArdle

520. Comment #96847 by steve99 on December 11, 2007 at 2:22 am

Really, when your best friend is raped and that you could do nothing about it I think you may be in a better position think about just how offended I am by your suggestion that I am not "saved" or "born of God".

Having been in that position, I felt too angry to post anything, for fear of what I would have posted.

Still, his posts are a useful reference showing how religion corrupts, or is used by those already corrupted.

Other Comments by steve99

521. Comment #96856 by Diacanu on December 11, 2007 at 2:43 am

*Back pat*
Don't worry, I'll stomp his testicles for you.
:)

Other Comments by Diacanu

522. Comment #96866 by Philip1978 on December 11, 2007 at 2:57 am

I say physician heal thyself

Other Comments by Philip1978

523. Comment #96868 by BMMcArdle on December 11, 2007 at 3:02 am

You can be saved, but only if you are damned first.

As to the physician, I say suture self.

Other Comments by BMMcArdle

524. Comment #96884 by irate_atheist on December 11, 2007 at 3:46 am

511. Comment #96695 by Ruht -

What a waste it is to lose one's mind. Or not to have a mind is being very wasteful. How true that is. -- Vice President Dan Quayle 8/92

Other Comments by irate_atheist

525. Comment #96927 by Ruht on December 11, 2007 at 5:39 am

"Ruht

That was not an apology..."

--

You're quite astute.

You darwinists are very sharp.

Other Comments by Ruht

526. Comment #96931 by Ruht on December 11, 2007 at 5:48 am

"The Bible seems wrong to you because you are not born of God. You therefore cannot understand it properly nor interpret it properly." - Ruht

"Uh... that's one hypothesis. Honesty requires you to consider alternative hypotheses. "

--

THIS is "honesty." Intepret my "The cat is green," and you will have forever proven the scriptures and myself wrong, and I will then "consider" your erroneous "alternative hypothesis."

However, because you will NEVER be able to interpret my simple 4-word sentence properly, you therefore have "HONESTY" about this forever in your face, and you've lost the so-called 'debate,' FOREVER.

You were defeated before you ever started, actually.

God bless.

The Lord indeed takes the so-called wise in their own craftiness; halleluiah.

Other Comments by Ruht

527. Comment #96941 by irate_atheist on December 11, 2007 at 6:11 am

530. Comment #96931 by Ruht -

Stopped taking your pills, have you? Tut tut. Doctor won't be happy with you when he does his rounds.

Other Comments by irate_atheist

528. Comment #96956 by The Reverend Dark on December 11, 2007 at 6:50 am

No. The Lord does not take the so-called wise in their own craftiness - the idiot takes a line of postmodernist shite and tries to spin it to their advantage. It is among the last and most pathetic defenses. Your knowledge of history fails you - but without the ability to share interpretation, there is no history. Your knowledge of the bible fails you, but without shared interpretations there is no bible. You knowledge of logic fails you, but without shared interpretation there is no logic.

Your claim cuts both ways - it reduces all argument to opinion; as there can be no fact; only opinion. Uninformed opinion in your case. It is a very comfortable warm and snuggly place for the theist, who is used to not having facts and clutching feebly at ether. Ignorance is not a warm and cuddly place � you are lying in a pile of your own, freshly laid turds and the soothing warmth will soon fade, leaving you cold and with a decidedly anti-social miasma.

Your claim isn't winning an argument, as your piss-poor argument of interpretation does not allow you to have an argument as personal interpretation negates a shared experience. You are pissing in your own cornflakes - not that you can even interpret corn flakes - they were someone else's idea. Unless you have the Kellogg's Cock (rooster you sickos) in your arse, you cannot truly interpret corn flakes � which is just as meaningful a statement as your own on biblical interpretation; but funnier.

The Renaissance and the Enlightenment were just something that happened to other people, weren't they? You are already trained by the bible to gullibility and culpability; one naturally feeding the other; which makes your fatuous arguments all the more pathetic. There are those whose personal integrity and honesty allows them to say that despite the facts, they still believe in god. Kurt Wise is a good example of this; and while I may not agree with him, his honesty, such as it is, is refreshing. You don't even have that level of honesty; but sweat the sickly stench of a snake-oil salesman who knows he has been rumbled.

You are at heart a deceitful little plucked up charlatan, pathetically grasping at the bible in the hopes that it shall grant you an authority; that your weak and mewling words will please an imaginary friend. You want to leverage your imaginary spiritual power to gain a measure of temporal power.

Sad, sick and oh so very petty.
The Reverend Shayne Dark

Other Comments by The Reverend Dark

529. Comment #97043 by Ruht on December 11, 2007 at 10:29 am

When hitting a dead end in the theory of evolution, just make something else up until that is disproven as well:

http://www.reuters.com/article/healthNews/idUSN1043228620071210?feedType=RSS&feedName=healthNews&rpc=22&sp=true

" 'The central finding is that human evolution is happening very fast -- faster than any of us thought," Harpending said in a telephone interview"

Translated: "Since our 'billions and billions of years' thing is being proven to be impossible, then we have to come up with something else."

Oh, but it's "fact," though, and "proven."

Hardy har har har.

The only thing 'evolving' in the theory of evolution, is the theory itself.

God bless.

Other Comments by Ruht

530. Comment #97057 by BMMcArdle on December 11, 2007 at 10:52 am

What's really funny is how your God Goggles distort your perception of the data presented to you.
The article describes how the overwhelming mountain of evidence of evolution is getting larger all the time.
Yet all you see is a hole.

Thanks for the link.

Golf bless you.

Other Comments by BMMcArdle

531. Comment #97068 by The Reverend Dark on December 11, 2007 at 11:05 am

Wow Ruht,

I already knew you were scientifically illiterate; I just never appreciated the true breadth and depth of the chasm that is your illiteracy.

Evolution; succinctly put, is the non-random survival of random mutations. Nothing in this article refutes or even challenges that; and many of the particulars sited are already well known to the scientifically literate.

If anything this article supports one of the great predictions (something a theory can make) of evolution. Namely that the profound changes that we have made in the way we live (moving from hunter-gatherer to agrarian to post agrarian) have been reflected in the particular mutations that have been selected. We see this in vulnerabilities to particular diseases; responses to treatment, and even physical attributes.

The aware have been keeping track of this; you obviously have not been. What we now have is a more eloquent proof in expressing it � through mapping the changes in the genome; where previously we had to rely on other means (medical, morphology, etc.)

Your 'Billions and Billions of years' conjecture is ill informed, ill worded and ill suited in describing the article; as not one thing presented conflicts with evolutionary theory.

Oh, and for your edification � theories do themselves evolve as we learn more. That is the strength of science. Religions evolve too; your particular take on Christianity is quite different from many of the other schisms out there. While many of them are just as bat-shit insane; some of them are capable of more intelligent discourse � something that your particular version (the one that exists between your ears) lost.

Here endeth the lesson,
The Reverend Shayne Dark

Other Comments by The Reverend Dark

532. Comment #97073 by SRWB on December 11, 2007 at 11:09 am

...just make something else up until that is disproven as well

Pot calling kettle! Isn't that exactly what religions have been doing for thousands of years? And what is your strange and unintelligible obsession with green cats? The only "dead end" is the space between your ears.

Other Comments by SRWB

533. Comment #97116 by Goldy on December 11, 2007 at 1:00 pm

However, because you will NEVER be able to interpret my simple 4-word sentence properly, you therefore have "HONESTY" about this forever in your face, and you've lost the so-called 'debate,' FOREVER

Petulent lickspittle, your four word sentence is in your head - like your religion, you change it to suit your whim and meaning. Like a small child you claim we'll never know what it means so we lose. Unfortunately, no one is listening to you anymore - you are just too weird to be normal. I flag you as a troll. I shall no longer read your drooling babblings as they mean nothing. Their only purpose is merely to highlight your complete disconnection with reality anad with reason. Had I had my way, you would be committed - your type are the sort that end up killing people.
Again, I say begone - you have no place here. You have no intelligence, no morals, no reason and no knowledge.
Your one piece of truth, as far as I can see is "The only thing 'evolving' in the theory of evolution, is the theory itself." and even that you cannot see. Indeed, you mean it to read the exact opposite to what it says! Breathtaking!
Go - you are getting to be an embarrassment, both to us and mainly to yourself.

Other Comments by Goldy

534. Comment #97170 by Ruht on December 11, 2007 at 2:48 pm

"Had I had my way, you would be committed - your type are the sort that end up killing people."

--

Speaking of "killing people," imagine a world run by atheists:

http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/3276/killingfieldsdq3.jpg

If you'd like to see pictures of your atheistic 'progressive' woman's movement and its murders as well, just let me know. There are hundreds if not thousands of pictures of aborted babies all over the Internet, "clear thinker."

The lies and false witness of the Godless haven't yet ceased since the beginning of time.

"Blessed are ye, when men shall hate you, and when they shall separate you from their company, and shall reproach you, and cast out your name as evil, for the Son of man's sake." - Jesus Christ, Luke 6:22

God bless.

Other Comments by Ruht

535. Comment #97172 by Diacanu on December 11, 2007 at 2:54 pm

Ruht, please go fuck off.
You have no friends here.
Stop wasting everyone's time including your own.
Go do something productive.

Other Comments by Diacanu

536. Comment #97175 by phasmagigas on December 11, 2007 at 3:07 pm

Ruht

When hitting a dead end in the theory of evolution

"The central finding is that human evolution is happening very fast -- faster than any of us thought," Harpending said in a telephone interview"

Translated: "Since our 'billions and billions of years' thing is being proven to be impossible, then we have to come up with something else."

very strange, i read 'evolution is happening very fast, faster than any of us thought' now to my mind that says that evolution is happening just simply at a faster rate than scientists at first realised. Ruht, until you can get a grip and actually learn a bit of evolution and learn to 'decipher' difficult news text (you misinterpreted that one) you really shouldnt bother trolling this thread.

It never ceases to amaze me how a creationst will read an evolution artice and then assume somehow it disproves it!!!! I recently was talking to a creationist about selective breeding (i had no idea he was one) and only when he said, 'and selective breeding just goes to show what a load of nonsense darwins theory is' I was like 'what?' i explained that it actually demonstrates it, it demostrates it very well, and i quickly mentioned genetic variation>trait selection>genes passed on>gene frequency change in population = evo. Amazingly he didnt say anything more.

Now you might jump to the 'god' stuff again as its obvious you are intellectually incapable of engaging the evolution topics realistically so the god stuff is relatively easy, no proof either way just lots of assertions. Ruht, im sorry but when you post these things (like the first quote at the top) you are displaying not only a poor understanding of evolution but what appears to be a general lack of logic, i dont want to be rude but the first comment is so indicative of poor understanding that im not sure you will ever be able to understand evolution, maybe you just dont want to understand it, if you dont then you have no (useful) business on these threads because at that point you are a troll.

Other Comments by phasmagigas

537. Comment #97179 by Goldy on December 11, 2007 at 3:22 pm

Sexist too. Coupling "atheistic 'progressive' woman's movement" with your comments on rape, I think you are dangerous. Josh, get rid of him. He is criminally insane.

Other Comments by Goldy

538. Comment #97181 by Diacanu on December 11, 2007 at 3:36 pm

Well, that's no shock.
The Bible is a misogynist piece of crap, so a radical fundie of that book is naturally gonna be a woman hater.
Love how he tried for awhile to twist it into respect for women.
Cognitive dissonance like that will indeed snap a mind.
The human brain can't take it.

Other Comments by Diacanu

539. Comment #97183 by Corylus on December 11, 2007 at 3:37 pm

Goldy said

Sexist too. Coupling "atheistic 'progressive' woman's movement" with your comments on rape, I think you are dangerous. Josh, get rid of him. He is criminally insane.

I agree Goldy.

I wish I weren't so cynical, but I have to say that I am considering the possibility that Ruht is actually female...

Not getting any. Never getting any. Bitter and twisted - sitting in a back room and hugely fat. Hating other women, for the having the life she never can.

This is the harshest thing I have ever said on this site or any other.

However, I have to say that this person is demonstrably vile.

Other Comments by Corylus

540. Comment #97199 by Goldy on December 11, 2007 at 5:40 pm

Might be a female. I don't know and I don't care. I am just deeply uncomfortable reading the contributions from this poisonous individual. Even the "God bless" at the ends makes my skin crawl - something so devoid of it's meaning in this context. I just really wish there was a way of removing this evil contributer (and I use evil knowing full well the implications of the word).
There is nothing coherent in the ramblings we are subjected to, the quotations given to us are seemingly picked at random and mean nothing in the context, seeming only to show a sort of "victim" mentality of the writer. To say rape is correct and good shows something is not 100% right in his/her head and the complete, total, utter lack of any willingness to learn suggests to me that this person is convinced of thier complete superiority. Dr B might provide better explanations, but to me, victimhood and narcism (sorry for spelling) just don't mix too well generally.
It is almost a parody - I do hope this person is just taking the piss. As it is, Ruht is bloody good at it.

Other Comments by Goldy

541. Comment #97247 by Diacanu on December 11, 2007 at 8:05 pm

What Goldy said.

Other Comments by Diacanu

542. Comment #97249 by Ruht on December 11, 2007 at 8:06 pm

"Well, that's no shock.
"The Bible is a misogynist piece of crap,"

--

All this from someone who apparently is quite fond of "porn," as I believe you mentioned, something that makes whores out of women and treats them as nothing more than fornicating sex objects for uncaring, unloving fornicators and whoremongers.

Atheists are full of contradictions constantly.

You will be quite surprised one day when you realize what a fool you've been. And quite grieved as well.

Your hatred of God and Christians is of course the spirit of anti-Christ, as is Dawkins'. It's been prophesied for these last days for thousands of years in the scriptures, and is right on time.

God bless.

Other Comments by Ruht

543. Comment #97253 by Diacanu on December 11, 2007 at 8:12 pm

All this from someone who apparently is quite fond of "porn,"...

You haven't the slightest ear for sarcastic humor, do you?
Of course not, you read the Bible literally.

And if I WERE into porn, I would still hold your brand of vileness in lower regards than the participants of that stuff.

So, which are you anyway?
A misogynist, or a self-hating woman?

Atheists are full of contradictions constantly.

It's called complexity.
It's part of being an adult and fully realized human being, and not a bible robot seeing everything in ones and zeroes.

Other Comments by Diacanu

544. Comment #97259 by Ruht on December 11, 2007 at 8:21 pm

"I wish I weren't so cynical, but I have to say that I am considering the possibility that Ruht is actually female..."

As with your beliefs on God and evolution, you are wrong about this as well.

"Not getting any. Never getting any. Bitter and twisted - sitting in a back room and hugely fat. Hating other women, for the having the life she never can. "

One can't even begin to truly love another until one is born of the Holy Spirit.

This is the harshest thing I have ever said on this site or any other.

However, I have to say that this person is demonstrably vile."

Oh yes, and what you just said about a 'fat women not getting any' is decent, pleasant and wholesome conversation.

You atheists haven't an honest bone in your bodies. You are entirely self-worshipping and entirely narcissistic, to say the least. That's what happens when you turn from worshipping God to worshipping yourselves.

"Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator..." - Romans 1:25

Atheists are the most foolish, vile, hate-filled, dishonest people on the planet, quite frankly.

Stalin was an atheist; Mao was an atheist; Castro is an atheist; Pol Pot was an atheist; abortion stems from an atheist belief; etc. Atheism is death, which is why it manifests itself as so.

God bless.

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545. Comment #97260 by Diacanu on December 11, 2007 at 8:23 pm

Oh and...

Your hatred of God..

God is imaginary, therefore, I can only "hate", "him", as much as I "hate", say, the Emperor from Star Wars, or Freddy Kreuger.

And I do.
The Bible God is a wretched child killer.
Good thing he's imaginary.

and Christians..

No, just fascist frothing fire and brimstone shooting wackaloons like you.

And even then, it's not so much hate, as an annoyed and saddened contempt.

Like how you feel for the kid in kindergarten who wipes boogers on his desk.

is of course the spirit of anti-Christ,

Another imaginary character.
Don't expect me to lose any sleep.

I'm sure you'll ease yourself to sleep with images of my flesh rolling off in sheets via hellfire I wager.

Y'know, cuz you're so pure.

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546. Comment #97264 by Diacanu on December 11, 2007 at 8:26 pm

You atheists haven't an honest bone in your bodies.

Hey, change "atheist", to "jews", and you're well on your way to a proper fascist rally there.

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547. Comment #97269 by Ruht on December 11, 2007 at 8:33 pm

"To say rape is correct and good shows something is not 100% right in his/her head and the complete, total, utter lack of any willingness to learn suggests to me that this person is convinced of thier complete superiority.

I never said "rape is correct;" if you're referring to me.

But for the sake of the argument, if there is no God and no judgment like you claim, then why is rape bad, according to you contradicting hypocrites? What happened to your "there is no such thing as sin," "survival of the fittest" mantra?

You atheists are constant hypocrites. You want to live under morality (which comes from God), yet you want to claim that there is no God.

You can't have it both ways, hypocrites.

So-called 'atheists' are truly the most hypocritical and contradictory people on this planet. Just like their impossible theory of evolution, so are their no-God morals impossible.

God bless.

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548. Comment #97271 by Diacanu on December 11, 2007 at 8:39 pm

But for the sake of the argument, if there is no God and no judgment like you claim, then why is rape bad,..

Look at the world through "there is no God", glasses for just a minute.

If there is no God, than he's in your head.

If he's in your head, he's just the part of yourself that doesn't want to do harm.

So, you have morality inside yourself, not from God.

So, why not rape?
We just don't want to.

People who do are sick.
But the world is like that already.
The world looks exactly like it would if there was no God.
We just have the confidence to say he doesn't.

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549. Comment #97274 by Ruht on December 11, 2007 at 8:49 pm

"And I do.
The Bible God is a wretched child killer.
Good thing he's imaginary."

If he's just "imaginary," like you say, meaning that you're claiming that the Bible is just a book of fiction, why then did the writers write so many apparently disturbing things in it that are not properly understood by people like you, instead of just writing about their so-called 'imaginary' centerpiece in a pleasant way that wouldn't disturb suckers like you?

Satan is the one who will flatter you, who will tell lies to you what you want to hear, not God:

"Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets." - Jesus Christ, Luke 6:26

It is a con man who flatters the vain and the rebellious and tells them what they want to hear; not someone of truth, not God.

God bless.

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550. Comment #97279 by Diacanu on December 11, 2007 at 8:58 pm

Ruht-

A run of the mill conman uses flattery, because he's only after your wallet.

But, to really CONTROL people, you need FEAR.

And that's what the human writers of the Bible were after.
CONTROL.
To hold their dumb little nomad tribe together.
And to be the top dogs of that tribe.

And that's why the stories of the Bible are so full of violent crap.
To scare people.

Like telling a kid the boogyman will come if he doesn't finish his vegetables.

Basic stuff.

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