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Golden Compass author hits back
by BBC
Thanks to Andrew Chalkley for the link.
Reposted from:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7115300.stm
Warning: This story contains plot spoilers
The author of the book on which the new film The Golden Compass is based has hit back at critics who accuse him of peddling "candy-coated atheism".
Philip Pullman dismissed as "absolute rubbish" accusations by the US-based Catholic League that the film promotes atheism and denigrates Christianity.
"I am a story teller," he said. " If I wanted to send a message I would have written a sermon."
The Golden Compass - which stars Nicole Kidman - premiers in London on Tuesday.
Epic battle
The film also stars James Bond actor Daniel Craig and is based on the first part of Mr Pullman's best-selling His Dark Materials children's trilogy.
In the book - set in an imaginary world - the heroine Lyra fights against the Magisterium, an evil organisation some have interpreted as based on the Catholic Church.
The three-part series culminates in an epic battle in which God dies - at the hand of a child.
Those who have seen the film - which cost £90m to make - say the explicit anti-religious message of the books has been muted. But the Catholic League, which bills itself as America's largest Catholic civil rights organisation, have nevertheless launched a nationwide boycott campaign.
The League says that parents might be taken in by the toned-down film - but will then be fooled into buying the "overtly atheistic and anti-Christian" books.
League President Bill Donohue said: "Eighty-five per cent of the people in this country are Catholic or Protestant and I'd like them to stay at home, or go see some other movie.
"Pullman is using this film as a sort of stealth campaign. He likes to play the game that he's really not atheistic and anti-Catholic. But yes he is and we have researched this.
"This movie is the bait for the books."
Too many layers
But Mr Pullman - who is attending Tuesday's premier in London's Leicester Square - dismissed the Catholic League as "a tiny, unrepresentative organisation."
He told the BBC: "The only person Bill Donohue represents is himself.
"I don't want to talk about these criticisms about atheism in my books. It's too long an argument to have, and there are too many layers to the subject."
A spokeswoman for the Catholic Church in Britain said she was unaware of a concerted UK campaign to boycott the film: "We have not seen the film yet, so we cannot comment on its message," she said.
Christian journalist Peter Hitchens said that while he opposed a boycott, he wanted parents to be aware of Philip Pullman's themes.
He said: "If you buy this book for your child, don't imagine for a moment that you are handing over a neutral story: this author has a purpose.
"Don't forget, this is a writer who has previously gone on the record to say he is trying to undermine the basis of Christian belief."
Anti-religious
Ironically, Mr Pullman has also come under fire from secularists - who say there's isn't enough anti-religious sentiment in the film.
Terry Sanderson, president of the National Secular Society, said: "We knew from the beginning that the producers of this film intended to leave out the anti-religious references.
"We think this is a great shame. The fight against the Magisterium (Pullman's thinly-disguised version of the Catholic Church) is the whole point of the book. Take that away and the most original and interesting element of the story is lost."
Whether the Catholic League's campaign against the Golden Compass will succeed is open to question.
It previously spoke out against the Da Vinci Code - a fictional film that alleged Jesus married and had a child.
The film went on to become one of the highest-grossing movies of 2006.
Reposted from:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7115300.stm
Warning: This story contains plot spoilers
The author of the book on which the new film The Golden Compass is based has hit back at critics who accuse him of peddling "candy-coated atheism".
Philip Pullman dismissed as "absolute rubbish" accusations by the US-based Catholic League that the film promotes atheism and denigrates Christianity."I am a story teller," he said. " If I wanted to send a message I would have written a sermon."
The Golden Compass - which stars Nicole Kidman - premiers in London on Tuesday.
Epic battle
The film also stars James Bond actor Daniel Craig and is based on the first part of Mr Pullman's best-selling His Dark Materials children's trilogy.
In the book - set in an imaginary world - the heroine Lyra fights against the Magisterium, an evil organisation some have interpreted as based on the Catholic Church.
The three-part series culminates in an epic battle in which God dies - at the hand of a child.
Those who have seen the film - which cost £90m to make - say the explicit anti-religious message of the books has been muted. But the Catholic League, which bills itself as America's largest Catholic civil rights organisation, have nevertheless launched a nationwide boycott campaign.
The League says that parents might be taken in by the toned-down film - but will then be fooled into buying the "overtly atheistic and anti-Christian" books.League President Bill Donohue said: "Eighty-five per cent of the people in this country are Catholic or Protestant and I'd like them to stay at home, or go see some other movie.
"Pullman is using this film as a sort of stealth campaign. He likes to play the game that he's really not atheistic and anti-Catholic. But yes he is and we have researched this.
"This movie is the bait for the books."
Too many layers
But Mr Pullman - who is attending Tuesday's premier in London's Leicester Square - dismissed the Catholic League as "a tiny, unrepresentative organisation."
He told the BBC: "The only person Bill Donohue represents is himself.
"I don't want to talk about these criticisms about atheism in my books. It's too long an argument to have, and there are too many layers to the subject."
A spokeswoman for the Catholic Church in Britain said she was unaware of a concerted UK campaign to boycott the film: "We have not seen the film yet, so we cannot comment on its message," she said.
Christian journalist Peter Hitchens said that while he opposed a boycott, he wanted parents to be aware of Philip Pullman's themes.He said: "If you buy this book for your child, don't imagine for a moment that you are handing over a neutral story: this author has a purpose.
"Don't forget, this is a writer who has previously gone on the record to say he is trying to undermine the basis of Christian belief."
Anti-religious
Ironically, Mr Pullman has also come under fire from secularists - who say there's isn't enough anti-religious sentiment in the film.
Terry Sanderson, president of the National Secular Society, said: "We knew from the beginning that the producers of this film intended to leave out the anti-religious references.
"We think this is a great shame. The fight against the Magisterium (Pullman's thinly-disguised version of the Catholic Church) is the whole point of the book. Take that away and the most original and interesting element of the story is lost."Whether the Catholic League's campaign against the Golden Compass will succeed is open to question.
It previously spoke out against the Da Vinci Code - a fictional film that alleged Jesus married and had a child.
The film went on to become one of the highest-grossing movies of 2006.
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Posted: Tuesday, November 27, 2007 | PermalinkComments 1 - 50 of 70 |
Reload Comments | Back to Top | Page Numbers2. Comment #91136 by SilentMike on November 27, 2007 at 11:43 am
One phrase comes to mine when reading this article (and the previous articles about this movie):"Get a life"
Seriously, it's just a movie, get a life.
Other Comments by SilentMike
3. Comment #91137 by Linda on November 27, 2007 at 11:44 am
Philip Pullman: Catholic boycotters are 'nitwits'http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/film/article2953880.ece?Submitted=true
Nicely done Mr. Pullman.
"Christian journalist Peter Hitchens said that while he opposed a boycott, he wanted parents to be aware of Philip Pullman's themes."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7115300.stm
Its hard to believe that Peter came out of the same womb as Christopher.
What exactly is the Roman Cult church afraid of? Is it that people will purge them from the Vatican and leave it to be operated by a consortium of curators from the Met, Louvre, BM, Uffizi etc. allowing all people to explore the site freely? That could only be a good thing as for too long the mob that runs that state has profited from the myth of Christ.
Other Comments by Linda
4. Comment #91138 by upsidedawn on November 27, 2007 at 11:50 am
Well, as they say, there's no such thing as bad publicity. There'll be lots of people who will see the movie and read the books just to see what all the fuss is about. Other Comments by upsidedawn
5. Comment #91139 by mcadamsdj on November 27, 2007 at 11:56 am
"One phrase comes to mine when reading this article (and the previous articles about this movie):"Get a life"
Seriously, it's just a movie, get a life."
LOL Silent Mike!
Have you seen Bill Donohue's video about TGC on the catholic league website? Check it out: http://catholicleague.org/videos/. What a nut job.
By the way, when's the next secret atheist meeting to present atheism to kids and undermine Catholic values? I missed the last one...:)
D
Other Comments by mcadamsdj
6. Comment #91152 by Nick Good on November 27, 2007 at 12:18 pm
Rather get the nice Catholic kiddies to see a nice little Catholic romantic comedy directed by Mel Gibson. Other Comments by Nick Good
7. Comment #91156 by Chris Bell on November 27, 2007 at 12:31 pm
It's nice to know that Catholic faith is so vulnerable that a children's book can destroy it.Other Comments by Chris Bell
8. Comment #91157 by BaronOchs on November 27, 2007 at 12:33 pm
People should pick the Catholic League up on every occassion they style themselves a catholic "civil rights" organisation. Hardly any of Bill Donahue's fascist bullying, and this golden compass thing is a case in point has anything to do with civil rights for catholics. Which of course are as important as civil rights for anybody, and historically in protestant countries catholics have often been disenfranchised (needless to say you're better off as a believer in a secularised country than in one dominated by a different religion). Maybe the League at one point did good work in this regard, but nowadays they should be renamed the Campaign for a Catholic Theocracy or something.I think people have already pointed out the irony in the idea you can religiously indoctrinate children but can't make a movie with vaguely anti-religious themes. If there's any position that justifies that perhaps it would be absolute relativistic tribalism, perhaps thats how Bill Donahue sees himself?
Also SilentMike I think movies do matter, especially when they are token cases of the freedom of speech.
Other Comments by BaronOchs
9. Comment #91159 by SilentMike on November 27, 2007 at 12:38 pm
Have you seen Bill Donohue's video about TGC on the catholic league website? Check it out:
What an idiot: "Don't see the movie because it's not at all offensive"
Other Comments by SilentMike
10. Comment #91162 by SilentMike on November 27, 2007 at 12:52 pm
Also SilentMike I think movies do matter, especially when they are token cases of the freedom of speech.
Absolutely. This is a freedom of speach matter. I was mocking the catholics that get their panties in a bunch because of a movie. And to add to the absurdity they claim that the worst thing about this moive is that the problematic parts have been watered down to the point that the movie isn't even offensive at all, but that all just part of the atheist plot to make parents buy the books for their children as Christmas presents (And oh, by the way, we've compiled a 22 page booklet on the matter which we're selling for 5$). There's no winning with these people.
Other Comments by SilentMike
11. Comment #91167 by Ducklike on November 27, 2007 at 12:59 pm
"candy-coated atheism"
Yummy! Sounds delicious! See you at the concession stand.
Other Comments by Ducklike
12. Comment #91168 by Fanusi Khiyal on November 27, 2007 at 12:59 pm
"I am a story teller," he said. " If I wanted to send a message I would have written a sermon."
Good for hum. Am I the only one who thinks that all involved in this are acting ridiculously? Atheists and Believers alike. Over on my bookshelf I have copies of Milton and Dante, alongside two Bibles (King James and Revised) and that hardly makes me a Christian.
Can't we just talk about whether or not the book is any good, and likewise the film?
Other Comments by Fanusi Khiyal
13. Comment #91172 by phasmagigas on November 27, 2007 at 1:07 pm
so could this be the the millenium generations 'texas chainsaw massacre' or 'cannibal holocaust', basically the film your parents really didnt want you to see. If christian parents tell their kids that they are 'not going to see this movie because {insert various reason}' i wonder just what the outcome will be??Anyway, not quite equivalent as there was good reason for kids not to watch cannibal holocaust, im not sure compass will leave any 8 year olds traumatised for a week, could damn their souls though.
Other Comments by phasmagigas
14. Comment #91173 by FreeThink25 on November 27, 2007 at 1:09 pm
Have you seen Bill Donohue's video about TGC on the catholic league website? Check it out:I love it! They've prepared a 22 page pamphlet to warn and educate parents on the dangers of this movie....and you can all 22 pages for the wonderful low price of $5!! Does an indulgence come with that as well???
Other Comments by FreeThink25
15. Comment #91178 by BaronOchs on November 27, 2007 at 1:24 pm
Fanusi Khiyal:Can't we just talk about whether or not the book is any good, and likewise the film?
Ideally perhaps that is all we should have to discuss. But obviously we can't discuss the film if it's sabotaged by theocratic bullies.
Other Comments by BaronOchs
16. Comment #91192 by Ashley1319 on November 27, 2007 at 2:35 pm
speaking as someone who has read the books (as a 14ish year old), I will say that they are wonderful. No, I did not get all the anti religious implications at that young, as I had never once questioned my 'faith', but it did come back to me later, when I first started to question things like " well why does god say to do this, it's horrible!?" or " why does the church do this? it doesn't seem right" In the books, it's not necessarily killing the christian religion, but the dogma that comes with it. The cutting of the daemon in the books represents the church's long going attempts to sever our natural impulses from us(sexuality). The tyranny of the Magisterium represents the tyranny of the church organization (this doesn't exclude protestants btw)that try to force not only the believers, but the non believers to follow their religious rules. Catholics get so offended at the books copying them, but it does so with good reason. It is well known to have been the largest, most tyrannical, most murderous religious institution in the history of mankind. To whine about this movie is to say "I'm whining about what my religion has done for centuries, but I double-think to myself into forgetting that all these horrible things were committed under my religion."Other Comments by Ashley1319
17. Comment #91205 by twblalock on November 27, 2007 at 3:30 pm
I certainly don't know of any Catholics who support the views of Mr. Donohue, who always seems to be invited onto CNN when more reasonable Christian leaders fail to take the bait (chocolate Jesus statue, anyone?)After they supported the Passion and the Narnia movies, the Christians can hardly say that their views are not represented in cinemas.
Other Comments by twblalock
18. Comment #91208 by Fanusi Khiyal on November 27, 2007 at 3:35 pm
Oh, come _on_, BaronOchs! "Sabotaged by clerical bullying"? If anything, this kind of ruckus will get more people seeing it.Other Comments by Fanusi Khiyal
19. Comment #91210 by Bonzai on November 27, 2007 at 3:38 pm
Well I have to agree with FK on this one. The Church should learn by now that they are actually stuffing money in Hollywood's pocket with their "clerical bullying" and I think the movie makers know that too.Other Comments by Bonzai
20. Comment #91218 by Duff on November 27, 2007 at 4:32 pm
"Why do kids put beans in their ears...just cause their folks say no." Thanks Billy Donahue, you, who reminds me of the archtypal catholic priest/child molester. What a great spokesperson for that nasty little pope in Rome.Other Comments by Duff
21. Comment #91224 by Will in Aus on November 27, 2007 at 5:06 pm
If there is watered-down non-religious sentiment in this movie/book, then let's bring on the harder stuff......I wanna see some really offended believers! Other Comments by Will in Aus
22. Comment #91229 by 35bluejacket on November 27, 2007 at 5:33 pm
SilentMike:"I beg to differ, sir" (Doc Holliday)
A movie ain't just a movie and a book ain't just a book.
Movies do effect children. I remember seeing "The Day the Earth Stood Still" when I was 8 years old and it gave me my first 'world view'. I was blown away. This movie and more like them are needed.
Other Comments by 35bluejacket
23. Comment #91231 by Arcturus on November 27, 2007 at 5:48 pm
So what's the deal here? Billy says that it's "pernicious" to sell a "watered down" version of the Golden Compass, which is the least "offensive" part of the trilogy. So, what is Pullman supposed to do? Start with the third part???This guy really makes me sick. Every action that the christians take are offensive to infidels. Do you see any of us boycotting and making noise?
I've decided that this "holiday" season I'm boycotting any store that puts up a prop of Jesus. Even more, I'm willing to tell them that until they take it down, I'm not entering that store again. (I might starve to death cause everybody has the Jesus doll, but hey I'm really sick of this)
Other Comments by Arcturus
24. Comment #91246 by NormanDoering on November 27, 2007 at 6:43 pm
Arcturus wrote:Every action that the christians take are offensive to infidels. Do you see any of us boycotting and making noise?
Every action? Like walking down the street?
As for seeing us boycotting and making noise... well, I've been boycotting every televangelist who has ever asked me for a dime since I was born. I've got a blog and I try to make noise when I have time.
Boycotting Christian rock and televangelists would be less effective than women boycotting Playboy, beer, wrestling and sports cars. (Was that sexist?)
Other Comments by NormanDoering
25. Comment #91247 by BNCbright on November 27, 2007 at 6:48 pm
This response from religious campaigners smacks of hypocrisy. Just think of the pro-Christian stories, songs, sermons, parables etc which are inflicted on children of many countries from a young age which very few people challenge, and are arguably more damaging.I hope that this movie, even in its allegedly 'toned down' form gives young people the courage and inspiration to challenge the dogmatic status quo that, unfortunately, pervades many western education systems.
Other Comments by BNCbright
26. Comment #91248 by Bonzai on November 27, 2007 at 6:54 pm
I've decided that this "holiday" season I'm boycotting any store that puts up a prop of Jesus.
Strange as it may sound, I actually haven't seen many stores putting up Jesus related theme for Christmas. Instead we have Santa Clause everywhere, the ubiquitous symbol of consumption and buying. This is even more offensive.I prefer a peaceful nativity scene any day.
Other Comments by Bonzai
27. Comment #91250 by Frankus1122 on November 27, 2007 at 7:08 pm
I am a grade 7 teacher. We studied this novel in class this term. I plan to take my class to the movie on Dec. 14. When I was handing out the permission forms today, one student said she couldn't go because her pastor wouldn't let her. I asked her why and she said, "It is the antichrist.""What does that mean?"
"I don't know."
I have to be sort of careful about what I say. I asked her if her pastor thought it was okay for her to think for herself or did she have to follow everything he says because she is a sheep. She looked at me funny.
There are others in the class who are 'Christians'. I have parent-teacher interviews on Thursday night.
Can anyone help me? What do I say to these people?
I liked this line:
It's nice to know that Catholic faith is so vulnerable that a children's book can destroy it.
I was thinking something along these lines: Surely your child's faith is strong enough to withstand mild questioning. It can only make him stronger if he has true faith.
I don't know what angle I should take. This is a parent-teacher interview. I don't want to tell them that I think that their faith is really not well founded in reason or logic of any kind. At least not directly. I want to try to emphasize that I try to teach the student how to develop higher order thinking skills. They need to know the facts and then we can analyze and synthesize and come to some conclusions. They need to be able to evaluate information and beliefs. They need to become critical thinkers. I think I am going to have a hard time not slipping into..." and therefore your belief system just doesn't stand up to the tests. Sorry about that."
Help.
Other Comments by Frankus1122
28. Comment #91251 by BNCbright on November 27, 2007 at 7:11 pm
Bonzai;I'm making a concerted effort to talk of 'winter festivities' wherever possible. There is a definite need for a family get-together and quality food an drink in the depths of winter - the pagan celebration of the winter solstice holds testament to this.
What we don't need is the endorsement of a platform where faith-heads can put on their friendly face and pretend that they have any relevance in a modern society.
Other Comments by BNCbright
29. Comment #91253 by Bonzai on November 27, 2007 at 7:17 pm
BNC,Do whatever that suits you. I think that goes overboard even though I am not a Christian. Incidnetally, Pagan celebrations were also religious
in their origin and now have acquired a touch of new age as well.
Other Comments by Bonzai
30. Comment #91255 by BNCbright on November 27, 2007 at 7:27 pm
Bonzai,Of course Paganism is in a sense religious, my analogy only sought to show that there are good sociological reasons why we might enjoy a sort of traditional sort of festival during the winter. I think my point that Christianity has a stranglehold on this sort of festival, and that this has useful propaganda value for their cause, which should be resisted, still holds water.
BNC
Other Comments by BNCbright
31. Comment #91257 by liberalartist on November 27, 2007 at 7:53 pm
Sounds like a good book and movie, can't wait to see it! I like to watch the movie first, and then read the book. Books are always better and that way I can enjoy them both."The League says that parents might be taken in by the toned-down film - but will then be fooled into buying the "overtly atheistic and anti-Christian" books."
Ooh! Sounds like another atheist conspiracy to me! I think it is funny how paranoid the catholic church sounds when anything comes along that would question their authority and divineness.
Frankus1122 - you definitely have your work cut out for you! I struggled trying to find the right words to have a conversation with my mother this weekend. I bet any parent who is against their child seeing this film has no real information about it, just listening to the religious authority. I would suggest steering clear of the religion topic and explaining how it will affect her socially to be left out. Of course, if she has already read the book, what's the point of boycotting the film?! Good luck!
Other Comments by liberalartist
32. Comment #91259 by Quine on November 27, 2007 at 8:03 pm
Comment #91250 by Frankus1122 Help.
I admire you for your courage to do this in the 7'th grade and am sorry to say this, Frankus1122, but you are pretty much screwed. They are going to point out that God gets it at the end of the third book, and oblivion is okay for souls v. an afterlife. The teacher comes to mind who said Genesis was not factual a couple of months ago.
The best you can do is to start asking them as many questions as you can, as fast as you can, without making any comments back. Ask them if they know it is fiction, not based on any events (have they read it)? Do they know it is not about this world? What are the concerns in the first book that may be in the movie? Has anything from the screen play been printed that they object to? Try to get to the point where they start to hear themselves say things they don't really mean, and then they may become somewhat receptive to new information.
Keep drawing them out so they get the feeling that you care about what they think; probably you do, else how could you do your job. If you can blend and redirect them you will get the best result, but I can't see how that is going to be easy. I wish I could be more helpful, perhaps others here can do so. Good luck.
Other Comments by Quine
33. Comment #91265 by monkey2 on November 27, 2007 at 8:55 pm
Frankus1122 There's a bunch of reviews at http://www.hisdarkmaterials.org/news/the-golden-compass/the-golden-compass-our-reviews .
Those who have seen the film appear to be impressed by the cinematography rather than the tabloid subplot. There are loads of quotes, that you can use, to make the film unmissable
Other Comments by monkey2
34. Comment #91269 by dyingfaith on November 27, 2007 at 9:25 pm
Will in Aus said- "If there is watered-down non-religious sentiment in this movie/book, then let's bring on the harder stuff......I wanna see some really offended believers!"Agreed! and why not a new movie (with exception of the typical horror movie types). You have films like Troy and Kingdom of Heaven that hinted the folly or abuse of religion, but I do not know of one that actually gets in close, face to face, and be anti-religious. I think any such film would be very easy to sell. Let the religious be the PR and marketing for the movie, and for free!
But seriously. Why do theists have such a hard time with fiction and reality?
Other Comments by dyingfaith
35. Comment #91273 by Ducklike on November 27, 2007 at 10:33 pm
Frankus1122,Just as there's a valid reason for teaching evolution, so should there be validity in teaching how to "develop higher order thinking skills" and "analyze and synthesize and come to some conclusions". It sounds like you already have a perfectly defensible and sensible answer for their questions.
If necessary, and only if they insist, you may need to remind them that teaching religion in school is illegal; atheism isn't, christianity is. It'd sure be nice to tell the pastor to keep it in the church!
Good Luck,
Other Comments by Ducklike
36. Comment #91279 by Flagellant on November 27, 2007 at 11:48 pm
I sympathise with you, Frankus1122. However, in addition to the suggestions already made, here's a very useful piece of quote-mining for you: Nicole Kidman said that she wouldn't have been able to do the film if she thought it anti-Catholic. Here's the exact quote:'I was raised Catholic, the Catholic Church is part of my essence,' she told film journalists in Australia in the summer. 'I wouldn't be able to do this film if I thought it were at all anti-Catholic.'and here's the piece from which it comes. http://books.guardian.co.uk/news/articles/0,,2190945,00.html to help you with context.
That ought to give you some ammunition. You might even be able to be slightly aggressive about it, e.g. "So how is it that Kidman could say that, yet you have your attitude? Do you have a special, super-sensitive brand of Catholicism? Have you seen the film? Aren't you worrying overmuch?"
Anyway, good luck!
Religion – an activity for consenting adults in private.
Other Comments by Flagellant
37. Comment #91280 by Philip1978 on November 28, 2007 at 12:04 am
Frankus1122,All you have to do is keep reminding them its a movie and that if you had wanted to subvert their child's religion, wouldn't you have been more subtle about it? If necessary, show them what you have been teaching them - you sound like a perfectly fair and capable person. If anything its the parent's fault for getting so ridiculously wound up about it all.
If you have already been through the book with the children, how is the movie going to hurt?
This is your job is it not? You are to educate 7th graders in English and Philip Pullman has written a children's book which has been deemed well written enough for 7th graders to be able to understand, enjoy and discover the joys of learning about literature ( I have a degree in English and History here so I am completely bias!!)
You are not a religious educator, you are an English teacher, otherwise you would have applied for the job. Keep telling the parents that you simply want to teach them that subject and not religion.
My advice is be yourself, act professionally and responsibly in front of the parents and I can't see what more you can do, I hope it all goes well for you
Philip
Other Comments by Philip1978
38. Comment #91282 by Flagellant on November 28, 2007 at 12:12 am
Further to my previous post, Frankus1122, here's an earlier article, from the Sydney Morning Herald, with what's probably the original quote http://www.smh.com.au/news/film/kidman-denies-film-is-antichurch/2007/08/18/1186857834748.html My son was taught by Philip Pullman. He rated him an excellent teacher. Rather surprisingly, my son never complained to me that Pullman was anti-religion ;-) You may quote me on that. LOL.
Religion - an activity for consenting adults in private.
Other Comments by Flagellant
39. Comment #91294 by Zaphod on November 28, 2007 at 1:43 am
The religious get sillier by the day. They seriously don't understand that when you try this kind of boycott or CENSORSHIP it just makes people want to see the film more. Taboo will make it more attractive. Other Comments by Zaphod
40. Comment #91304 by briancoughlanworldcitizen on November 28, 2007 at 2:20 am
27. Comment #91250 by Frankus1122 on November 27, 2007 at 7:08 pm*spoilers!!!*
Highlight the fact that the book deals in metaphysics. To call a book atheist, when Lyra actually journeys at one point to hell to rescue a friend, and meets "God" (as understood by the thinly disguised catholic church), is absurd.
Get a copy and find sections that highlight this, and read them to the parents. It's a brilliantly written piece of work.
Most of your parents will be protestant, they probably consider the catholic church suspect. So focus on the idea of a child exposing metaphysical fraud in a parallel world where the reformation never happened, and thus discovering the truth behind the universe.
Steer clear of mentioning the catholic church by name though, rather refer to a monolithic, suffocating and intrusive religious hierarchy. They'll get the idea.
The movie can easily be sold as a call to religious freedom from the religious perspective. From ours, the whole idea of theism is undermined if the religious understanding of God might merely be the product of relentless pan generational propaganda. Which of course it is!!! Just without the metaphysics.
Other Comments by briancoughlanworldcitizen
41. Comment #91311 by D'Arcy on November 28, 2007 at 2:36 am
Sorry, I haven't read through the thread yet and may repeat what others have said.The Catholic Index is a list of forbidden books and authors. Here are some of the authors:
Luther, Copernicus, Zola, Voltaire, Joyce, Marx, Dumas, and there's loads more. See for yourself:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Index_Librorum_Prohibitorum
These would be censors no longer have the same clout as they used to and are seen for the buffoons they are.
Incidentally, I thought His Dark Materials was more anti church than anti religion, and not enough of either.
Other Comments by D'Arcy
42. Comment #91318 by irate_atheist on November 28, 2007 at 2:58 am
41. Comment #91311 by D'Arcy -These would be censors no longer have the same clout as they used to and are seen for the buffoons they are.If only they really were...
Other Comments by irate_atheist
43. Comment #91320 by octopus on November 28, 2007 at 3:23 am
It is school text example of irony to see Niccolò Machiavelli on the Index Librorum Prohibitorum. Religious officials have been doing advanced course on Machiavelli since the dawn of time.But, on the other hand, Machiavelli being on the list is perfect example of Machiavelli's own advice. :D
Edit:
Just found this. I'll leave it without the comment. :D
Lolita, Vladimir Nabokov Novel, Banned in Iran and Saudi Arabia for its content of pedophilia.
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44. Comment #91335 by hungarianelephant on November 28, 2007 at 4:28 am
octopus, your silence is most eloquent. Other Comments by hungarianelephant
45. Comment #91336 by Dundee Atheist on November 28, 2007 at 4:35 am
The movie industry routinely takes best selling books for filming - nothing new there. And I can think of a recent bestseller that would make an excellent cinematic experience.God Delusion - The Movie !
Can you imagine the complaints about that one ?
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46. Comment #91341 by irate_atheist on November 28, 2007 at 5:07 am
45. Comment #91336 by Dundee Atheist -I would prefer 'God is not Great'.
A punchier and more bombastic polemic by far.
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47. Comment #91347 by Dundee Atheist on November 28, 2007 at 5:33 am
irate_atheist -Wouldn't that be the sequel?
God Delusion II - God is not Great
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48. Comment #91350 by irate_atheist on November 28, 2007 at 5:39 am
I would prefer God Delusion III - The End Of Faith.A much more satisfying trilogy.
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49. Comment #91354 by Dundee Atheist on November 28, 2007 at 5:54 am
Perfect !Well now that's that sorted out, anybody got Harrison Ford's phone number? Find out if he fancies playing the Prof?
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50. Comment #91372 by annabanana on November 28, 2007 at 7:23 am
I certainly don't know of any Catholics who support the views of Mr. Donohue, who always seems to be invited onto CNN when more reasonable Christian leaders fail to take the bait (chocolate Jesus statue, anyone?)
*ehem, this is an e-mail that has been going around my office. The person who sent it to me is Catholic and the person who sent it to her is Protestant:
The movie The Golden Compass comes out December 7, 2007 and stars Nicole Kidman.
This comes directly off Snopes.com- Go the web site for more details.
http://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/compass.asp
There will be a new Children's movie out in December called The Golden Compass. It is written by Phillip Pullman, a proud atheist who belongs to secular humanist societies. He hates C.S. Lewis' Chronical's of Narnia and has written a trilogy to show the other side. The movie has been dumbed down to fool kids and their parents in the hope that they will buy his trilogy where in the end the children kill God and everyone can do as they please.
NOW let's do OUR part and get this out to as many people as we can...DO NOT buy his books or go see the movie.
Send this to everyone on your e-mail list...we can and will shut him down...
So these campaigns may be more effective than we think. Anyway, I've read the first book and am halfway done with the second and I've tried to explain that this book could be read a number of ways (as with most works of fiction) and that it wasn't any worse than say, the Da Vinci Code, which most people have read or seen.
Also, Frankus1122, you'll have to look this up, but I believe the Archbishop of Canterbury said that he recommended that children read these books because of the moral values they taught and that he didn't think it to be anti-religious, but against all of the bad things the church has done, or something to that effect.
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Over 1.5 million copies sold
Books by Richard Dawkins
The Oxford Book of Modern Science Writing
by Richard Dawkins
The Selfish Gene
by Richard Dawkins
The Blind Watchmaker
by Richard Dawkins
The Ancestor's Tale
by Richard Dawkins
Unweaving the Rainbow
by Richard Dawkins
1. Comment #91135 by evilrodhull on November 27, 2007 at 11:42 am
They're just afraid of a level playing field. They're complaining because they think atheists are trying to indoctrinate children like christians do, and they want to be the only ones allowed to do it. The hypocrisy is truly staggering. Even if they were right, all that would mean is that christians would have their films and atheists would have theirs. All fair and equitable. Obviously they're not interested in fair and equitable.They don't act like people who have absolute eternal truth on their side. They act like people who know they're part of a precarious con and want to protect the con for as long as possible, no matter what it takes.
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