1. Comment #95458 by posiedon on December 8, 2007 at 11:49 am

Not only do I feel sorry for you guys (and of course gals) on the other side of the Atlantic, I worry for the whole of humanity, that you have assholes like this running to be president of the most powerful nation on earth.
It really does beggar belief.
The "religion of secularism" WTF!

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2. Comment #95473 by AdrianB on December 8, 2007 at 12:20 pm

What a nice scary country the US is evolving into. I really do feel for the sensible minority there. Thank FSM there are people like these two talking heads, and the fact that the sensible minority still adds up to a lot of people.

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3. Comment #95486 by Barbara on December 8, 2007 at 12:38 pm

Your concern for us Americans, posiedon, is appreciated. I wonder if it would be prudent to begin planning my escape now, or if I should wait until after the elections. Do you know of an English-speaking country that would take-in a disillusioned American lady and two cats? I suppose it won't matter if I stay or go if the whole of humanity is at risk from some faith-head with far-to-much power. :-(

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4. Comment #95499 by Quine on December 8, 2007 at 12:59 pm

There are actual reasons for Americans to be afraid. If you have not seen it, I strongly suggest you rent a copy of the DVD Hacking Democracy which is about the voting problems. One of my friends was on the team at the University of California that did voting machine analysis last summer, leading to the decertification of these machines here in California.

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5. Comment #95500 by Mister_X on December 8, 2007 at 1:00 pm

Any worries people have after watching the speech must know there are organizations keeping America the way our Founding Fathers want it to be: religion out of the government. For example,

Americans United for Separation of Church and State
www.au.org

People For the American Way
pfaw.org

Moveon.org

First Freedom First Foundation
firstfreedomfirst.org

Freedom From Religion Foundation
ffrf.org

Secular Coalition of America
secular.org

And of course there is the Richard Dawkins Foundation, the Rational Respond Squad, Infidel Guy, Pat Condell, Nick Gisborne, and so many others throughout the Internet. Don't forget religion is declining among America's youth as well.

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6. Comment #95513 by Communist on December 8, 2007 at 1:32 pm

Did any of you see the whole Family Research Council conference video? The video was referenced at this side in the article with the headline ''Expelled' Movie: The Extended Trailer'. Here is the link:

http://www.c-spanarchives.org/library/stream_it.php?format=rm&program_id=201624-3

After Mitt Romney, Ben Stein and others delivered there standard reactionary, antifeminist, antigay, anti-lone parent, antiscientific rant, Phyllis Schlafly took the podium.

What was remarkable about her speech, was how strongly she came out against free trade, against international agreements and against globalism. Her speech was stunningly ANTIBOURGEOIS. Since the context was reactionary and religious fundamentalist, I will say that her speech was FASCIST. I also fear that such a message may gain support among many american workers and unemployed when China and India continue to expand their economies. I hope that those who believe in the free market will agree with me on this. Be afraid. Be very afraid.

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7. Comment #95516 by communsensetoldme on December 8, 2007 at 1:48 pm

omg how scary is that?!!

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8. Comment #95526 by HeathenAngel on December 8, 2007 at 2:15 pm

I can only imagine.. I'll have to wait until someone puts it on YouTube, CrooksAndLiars or Intoxination. For some reason, Quicktime and my computer do not get along. I'll reserve comment until I see it, but I'm sure.. seeing as how it's Olbermann.. I love that man, it will be quite eloquent.

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9. Comment #95537 by HeathenAngel on December 8, 2007 at 2:40 pm

As it turns out.. I have a media player that handles quicktime format videos (VLC). I was able to watch and Olbermann, as I anticipated he would, hit one out of the park. I especially loved the point he made about Romney claiming that secularists are trying to create their own religion, then called it wrong.. the whole time asking for his own right to believe what he wants. If people can't see through this guise and show Romney that we don't need another president who will bow to the whims of the evangelicals...

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10. Comment #95543 by Kal'El on December 8, 2007 at 2:57 pm

Quote from Mister X: "Any worries people have after watching the speech must know there are organizations keeping America the way our Founding Fathers want it to be: religion out of the government. For example,

Americans United for Separation of Church and State
www.au.org

People For the American Way
pfaw.org

Moveon.org

First Freedom First Foundation
firstfreedomfirst.org

Freedom From Religion Foundation
ffrf.org

Secular Coalition of America
secular.org

And of course there is the Richard Dawkins Foundation, the Rational Respond Squad, Infidel Guy, Pat Condell, Nick Gisborne, and so many others throughout the Internet. Don't forget religion is declining among America's youth as well." End Quote.




yo don't forget CFI (Center for Inquiry) ...i gotta give them a shout-out

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11. Comment #95554 by jimbob on December 8, 2007 at 3:13 pm

Wasn't George H the guy who said you can't be a patriot unless you are religious?

A very choice for Mitt's intro!

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12. Comment #95560 by Quine on December 8, 2007 at 3:27 pm

Comment #95513 by Communist

Did any of you see the whole Family Research Council conference video? The video was referenced at this side in the article with the headline ''Expelled' Movie: The Extended Trailer'. Here is the link:

http://www.c-spanarchives.org/library/stream_it.php?format=rm&program_id=201624-3

Thanks for this link, it was terrifying. The out-of-context video of Richard Dawkins from Stein's movie was clearly used for propaganda purposes at this meeting. And Phyllis Schlafly is pure nightmare.

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13. Comment #95568 by aznxscorpion517 on December 8, 2007 at 3:43 pm

If he really did say "religion of secularism" than I am appalled, shocked and disgusted. How can a candidate for The Presidency of the USA NOT understand what SECULAR means?

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14. Comment #95583 by Matt7895 on December 8, 2007 at 4:11 pm

I disagree with my fellow countrymen saying they feel sorry for the United States. I just think that's a little condescending and patronising. And it's not really our business to interfere in American matters.

However, it cannot be denied that having a theocrat leading the most powerful and influential country in the world will probably be bad for the world as a whole. So for that reason I really hope the Americans elect a secularist. Is there one running?

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15. Comment #95587 by perkyjay on December 8, 2007 at 4:25 pm

Barbara - 95486: You could feel safe, with your two cats, in Canada. 20% of all Canadians are avowed atheists, and I suspect another 40% are quite lukewarm to the blandishments of religion.
You would be very welcome.

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16. Comment #95589 by toomanytribbles on December 8, 2007 at 4:37 pm

does anyone remember the sorry everybody website?
(http://www.sorryeverybody.com/gallery/1/)

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17. Comment #95605 by Mister_X on December 8, 2007 at 6:30 pm

I forgot to add Center for Inquiry. Thanks Kal'el.

Romney speech reflects inaccurate understanding of church-state relations:
http://www.au.org/site/News2?abbr=pr&page=NewsArticle&id=9533&security=1002&news_iv_ctrl=1241

19 minute discussion on Romney's speech on Bill Moyers Journal
http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/12072007/watch2.html

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18. Comment #95619 by Eventhorizon on December 8, 2007 at 7:44 pm

HOLY SHIT!

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19. Comment #95621 by robotaholic on December 8, 2007 at 8:01 pm

he sounded brainwashed... - that is as blunt and accurate as it gets

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20. Comment #95623 by dialector on December 8, 2007 at 8:18 pm

AdrianB on December 8, 2007 at 12:20 pm

"What a nice scary country the US is evolving into. I really do feel for the sensible minority there. Thank FSM there are people like these two talking heads, and the fact that the sensible minority still adds up to a lot of people."

The word is "Devolve". The US has actually already "evolved" beyond that kind of thinking. If you go back to the 1950's the average sensibility on religion and state would have been worse than Romney's. By the 1980's you were thought to be insane to be a conservative religious person. By the 1990's religious people in the US used to be shy (relative to now) about stating their perspectives in public because they knew they would be precieved to be a fruitcake.

The US has been MUCH more religious in its past. Thinking like Romney's represent a regression to a less evolved state that has already been surpassed.

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21. Comment #95627 by Tack on December 8, 2007 at 8:53 pm

This quote from Olbermann is on point: "Did he not recognize the hypocrisy in that? He called secularism a religion, then called it wrong, ostensibly while given a speech asking for religious tolerance.""

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22. Comment #95668 by Liveliest Crib on December 9, 2007 at 12:19 am

11. Comment #95554 by jimbob on December 8, 2007 at 3:13 pm:

Wasn't George H the guy who said you can't be a patriot unless you are religious?

Worse. Papa Bush said that you could not be a citizen without believing in god.

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23. Comment #95696 by Conrad on December 9, 2007 at 1:38 am

I was more than pleased to hear Olbermann point out that John Adams was behind the alien and sedition acts. A horrendous treason against freedom was committed by that man as president and Romney quotes him in a speech about freedom!

Also on par was his point on how Romney 1) labeled secularism a religion, and 2) then went on to attack it in a speech about religious freedom. The mind boggles.

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24. Comment #96769 by Tumara Baap on December 10, 2007 at 10:10 pm

Romney's speech was so singularly obnoxious, he almost deserves a helping hand from us. What would an "Atheists For Romney" movement do for his campaign?
A timed and honed message moored in exploiting existing distrust could be exquisite. The mormon religion has lately taken a lot of flak. But it isn't sillier than the other major religions; just a little closer to us on the time scale. This presents a chance to open up a few minds that would never avail themselves of Dawkins' or Hitchens writing. The ways of rape, pillage and revenge are upheld in books revered by Mormons. The point is some of the craziest stuff is not found in the Book of Mormons, but in the Old Testament. Romney should not be singled out for how he reconciles the inexcusable stupidity and historical inconsistencies of his faith with reason. Atheists for Romney should demand all religious candidates be held to the same standard. Too bad if Romney isn't flattered by our love... :-(

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25. Comment #96935 by jaster on December 11, 2007 at 5:59 am

As a patriotic American that has served and fought for his country and considers himself an atheist, I am deeply saddened that men like Mitt Romney are out there, in the positions they are in. Along the way there are several other emotions involved; worry, anger, fear, disgust, among others. But, when I lie awake in bed at night and consider it all, it is overwhelming sadness that I feel.

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26. Comment #97039 by LeeLeeOne on December 11, 2007 at 10:18 am

I made a comment on the romney website under "contact", with my real name and real address and real E-mail address.

How many of you, meaning legally voting US Citizens, have done the same?

Romney sucks, yes. But if you scream loudly in a lead-lined box, no one will hear you!

If you are to scream, scream loudly in no BOX! Scream loudly to the masses who will "hear" you!

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27. Comment #97556 by ksskidude on December 12, 2007 at 10:52 am

It is another sad moment in our American History. It absolutely baffles the mind that a presidential candidate in the year 2007, still can not see how church and state should remain seperate.

If Romney wins the Presidency, and it could happen people, we are screwed. I am honestly now afraid of what this country is, and has always been, a theocracy in hidding. This speech revealed the cloak of secrecy.

I would like to think that the Dems will act differently, but they have pandered nearly as bad as Romney. I am just sickened!!

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28. Comment #99587 by chrise on December 17, 2007 at 6:15 am

Perhaps loss of reason on religious topics is a common sociological thread with the great empires of World History......

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