301. Comment #116815 by lindseymwright on January 27, 2008 at 2:14 pm

You all are taking this so literally. It said the letter was written by a "fictitious" student. There is no claim to truth. The idea behind it is that for those of us who have a relationship with Christ, we should not conceal it. Yes, it is a call to evangelism. That was it's purpose. And it worked. It wasn't meant for non-belivers. It was written for those who do believe. God bless all your souls.

Other Comments by lindseymwright

302. Comment #116817 by scottishgeologist on January 27, 2008 at 2:19 pm

Paula pointed out:

The Church of England officially denied the existence of hell in 1996. The Catholic church denied the existence of limbo in 2005

What amazes me is how, if you went back a few years or so, you would find these ideas being hammered out as absolute truths.

So does this mean they are admitting they made mistakes? If so, how did they come to the conclusion that these things are no longer valid?

Did "The Lord" proclaim a "word" to some of his priests and ministers (Sorry guys, you're going to have to change the script a bit - no more hell, no more limbo.. catch you later...)

Or is it like so much more of this stuff - the "word of man" rather than the "word of god"?

And where does it actually all end? If these concepts are "no longer required" then how much of the rest of it is? Actually, when the churches start coming out with this sort of revisionism, its actually good for the cause of rationalism.

Even people like Mark Driscoll are troubled by the gender issues in Pauls letters. And Emergent leaders like Brian McLaren get all wobbly at times. Check this out, its a real eye opener:

http://www.beliefnet.us/story/173/story_17371_1.html

(If Christianity is true, People I love will burn in Hell)


Keep going, guys...

SG

Other Comments by scottishgeologist

303. Comment #116820 by Paula Kirby on January 27, 2008 at 2:26 pm

Vinelectric: Theny you'll friend will have a nervous breakdown if you told her about the book that says you'll be fed boiling pus and that you'll be threaded ona 70 foot chain (mouth to anus) in hell whilst been dragged face down all along..

Interesting, isn't it - the religious have remarkably vivid imaginations when it comes to describing the torments of hell, but seem to be at a complete and utter loss when describing heaven. Has anyone on this site EVER heard a description of heaven that conjured up an image even half as detailed as the Koran's description of hell? Heaven seems a terribly insipid place, by comparison.

Humans are a fearful animal, it seems - far more able to conceive images of torture, desolation and torment than of joy and beauty. I've always assumed that religion first arose because early humans wanted some kind of explanation - ANY kind of explanation - for natural phenomena. But now I'm wondering whether it might not just have been simple curiosity that led to that desire, but the fear that came from not knowing. After all, it's clear that, in the absence of knowledge, the human imagination can concoct some very terrifying images indeed.

I'd be interested to hear other people's thoughts on this.

Other Comments by Paula Kirby

304. Comment #116823 by Paula Kirby on January 27, 2008 at 2:41 pm

LindseyMWright: There is no claim to truth.

Oh, I think there is. There is the claim that hell really exists, that it really is a place of torture and flames and agony and terror, and that people who don't accept Jesus really will end up there. These are all truth claims - and all based on absolutely zero evidence to support them. Imagine: filling children's heads with this monstrous nonsense when there is ABSOLUTELY NO REASON WHATSOEVER to believe it to be true; and GOOD reason to believe that it isn't. It's despicable.

And you know the great irony here? The very people who most firmly believe in this contemptible twaddle are the very ones who are most likely to turn round and claim that evolution can be dismissed because it is "just a theory".

The day you fundies have even a thousandth of the evidence for the existence of hell that science has for the reality of evolution, is the day you may consider yourselves justified in putting these thoughts into children's heads (but I mean EVIDENCE, not Iron Age horror stories). Until then, how DARE you do it? Aren't you thoroughly ashamed of yourselves for inflicting this evil madness on your CHILDREN? You certainly should be.

No doubt you claim to love God with all your hearts, souls and mind. Yet at the same time you seem perfectly able to entertain the idea that this same god might one day quite deliberately set your children on fire for all eternity. How unnatural can you get? How can you POSSIBLY love a being who has the potential to make your children suffer like that? How can you POSSIBLY persuade yourself that that would be ok, because it would be justice? I want to shake you: can't you see how twisted and mad such thinking is? How can you possibly fall for this foul, evil, disgusting nonsense?

Other Comments by Paula Kirby

305. Comment #116829 by Diacanu on January 27, 2008 at 2:53 pm

Hmm, someone physically tormenting you, and saying "I love you", at the same time...isn't that pretty much the mentality of a fucking wife beater?

Oh, that's right, it's okay when God does it.
Everything's okay when God does it, or says you can do it.
Genocide, infanticide, rape, you name it.

Gosh, God is so peechy keen.

Other Comments by Diacanu

306. Comment #116830 by Double Bass Atheist on January 27, 2008 at 2:53 pm

omega369 -

All we do know is that there is historical evidence (outside of the bible) that there was a person named Jesus who lived and lead a group of people.

Please present said evidence. For if you do indeed have any extra-biblical evidence for the existence of jesus, you will have done what no other historian or theologian has ever been able to do… find the historical jesus!
The reality is that there is no such evidence. The jesus myth is pretty much just a combination of various pagan god-men that preceded Christianity.

Paula Kirby -
I found myself almost cheering out loud reading your last post (#306). Paula, you are my god… for saying so succinctly, and with the proper force, precisely what needed to be said to that poster, LindseyMWright.
I could quote your entire post, but especially enjoyed this:

The day you fundies have even a thousandth of the evidence for the existence of hell that science has for the reality of evolution, is the day you may consider yourself justified in putting these thoughts into children's heads. Until then, how DARE you do it? Aren't you thoroughly ashamed of yourselves for inflicting this evil madness on your CHILDREN? You certainly should be.

You go girl!

Other Comments by Double Bass Atheist

307. Comment #116832 by Diacanu on January 27, 2008 at 2:55 pm

Paula-

Oh, and what Double Bass Atheist said.

Other Comments by Diacanu

308. Comment #116836 by Paula Kirby on January 27, 2008 at 3:00 pm

Paula, you are my god

Thank you, Double Bass Atheist, but that's quite impossible. You see, I really do exist. ;-)

Other Comments by Paula Kirby

309. Comment #116837 by Diacanu on January 27, 2008 at 3:03 pm

Paula-

You see, I really do exist. ;-)

And have a very kissable little pixie face.
:)

Other Comments by Diacanu

310. Comment #116838 by Double Bass Atheist on January 27, 2008 at 3:05 pm

Thank you, Paula. Thank you!
That is one of the funniest things I've ever heard!!!

I had to wipe the tears from my eyes just to type this post.
;-D

Other Comments by Double Bass Atheist

311. Comment #116839 by heathen2 on January 27, 2008 at 3:05 pm

I share your horror Paula.

And to lindseymwright, you say of the video:

It wasn't meant for non-belivers. It was written for those who do believe.

You are quite wrong, it was meant for non-believers also, since they were the targets of the believers, presumably moved into converting others after seeing this video. It is reprehensible that vulnerable children, those forced into believing through their family traditions as well as their classmates and friends who become their targets, are subjected to the kind of stuff on this video. Paula said it better than I could.

Other Comments by heathen2

312. Comment #116844 by Diacanu on January 27, 2008 at 3:16 pm

lindsaymright-

The idea behind it is that for those of us who have a relationship with Christ, we should not conceal it.

If sick behavior like terrorizing children is what a "relationship with christ", leads one to, then by all means, expose it to the world for public inspection.
Sick abuse in relationships thrives on concealment.
Reveal away.

Other Comments by Diacanu

313. Comment #116845 by Steve Zara on January 27, 2008 at 3:18 pm

You all are taking this so literally. It said the letter was written by a "fictitious" student. There is no claim to truth. The idea behind it is that for those of us who have a relationship with Christ, we should not conceal it.

Well, I do wonder how Christians would react if I took this idea on board. You see, I am gay. I think that for those of us who have relationships with the same sex, we should not conceal it. So, I am now tempted to make a video. It would tell children than unless those that were queer came out as gay, they would suffer unavoidable torture and torment.

I can't see how anyone could object.... after all, it would make no claims to truth. It would just be a story...

Other Comments by Steve Zara

314. Comment #116846 by heathen2 on January 27, 2008 at 3:18 pm

Vinelectric:

heathen2

Theny you'll friend will have a nervous breakdown if you told her about the book that says you'll be fed boiling pus and that you'll be threaded ona 70 foot chain (mouth to anus) in hell whilst been dragged face down all along..

The Quran has all the tools to drive children insane.

I haven't read my Quran cover to cover for many years now. Does it really say that? Shameful.

Other Comments by heathen2

315. Comment #116849 by Double Bass Atheist on January 27, 2008 at 3:30 pm

To all,
When I submitted this story late last week, I knew it would generate some interest here… and now to see that several days later, this thread is still going strong. Thank you, all.
I asked for some help earlier. Please see this post:
http://www.richarddawkins.net/articleComments,2176,A-Letter-From-Hell,RichardDawkinsnet,page5#116209

Several posters here have offered advice to me as to what I should do next, even RD himself (thank you again, sir). I don't like just doing nothing… and spreading this story around to as many as possible should help to embarrass even moderate believers.
However, should I confront the parents of the kid who's spreading this video around to my son's classmates? Personally, I'm not sure that would even matter. If their kid is this deluded, one can only imagine what his parents are like!
My son does not really care all that much. He said he just blows the fool off. But I'm more concerned about other kids in his class that might not have the same understanding and could be influenced by this crap.
As a result, I want to do something, I just don't know what would do the most good, or even be effective for that matter.

Other Comments by Double Bass Atheist

316. Comment #116851 by Steve Zara on January 27, 2008 at 3:39 pm

However, should I confront the parents of the kid who's spreading this video around to my son's classmates?

Well, if you think this is offensive (as I do), I think you would be justified.

I am sorry if I have missed this information somewhere, but can I ask where you live? Depending on that, I may be able to suggest some newspapers that could be interested in this.

Other Comments by Steve Zara

317. Comment #116854 by Paula Kirby on January 27, 2008 at 3:57 pm

Double Bass Atheist: As a result, I want to do something, I just don't know what would do the most good, or even be effective for that matter.

I think there have been some very good suggestions already. Like others, I would be inclined to confront the child's parents. Though there might also be something to be said for having a quiet word with the child himself: explaining how upsetting this video could be for some people and asking him to show a bit more consideration. I'm not altogether certain I'd be able to resist asking him a few questions in the hopes of getting him to question what he'd been taught - I suspect his parents would object strongly to that, but it could lead to an interesting discussion with them about why it's ok for their ideas to be put brutally into children's heads, but not for yours to be put into them gently ...

The other line is certainly with the school. If the child was passing on this video in school time and/or on school premises, it is very much a school matter.

The thing is, when the assumption is that everyone believes this stuff, the silence of protestors will be taken as evidence of absence of protestors, making it more likely that such messages will be propagated again in the future. There may be other parents out there who feel just as strongly about this as you do, but who aren't speaking up for fear of being the only ones. Maybe you could sound a few of them out?

Other Comments by Paula Kirby

318. Comment #116856 by Double Bass Atheist on January 27, 2008 at 4:09 pm

No problem, Steve. I live in the US, more specifically, New Jersey. I did say this in Comment #77 and #232, but obviously it is not likely that everyone will read every comment on a thread of this length. On hindsight, I probably should have simply said so in the lead-in paragraph of the article submission.

Thank you in advance for any assistance you (or others) can offer.

There may be other parents out there who feel just as strongly about this as you do, but who aren't speaking up for fear of being the only ones. Maybe you could sound a few of them out?

Paula, that much was already my intention. However, I'm not sure I'll be able to have a conversation with the video-spreading kid as you also suggested. He's not one of my son's close friends, just an acquaintance at school. So, it's not likely that I'll have an opportunity to discuss anything with him. But I sure would like to!

~Carmine

Other Comments by Double Bass Atheist

319. Comment #116857 by Steve Zara on January 27, 2008 at 4:12 pm

No problem, Steve. I live in the US, more specifically, New Jersey. I did say this in Comment #77 and #232, but obviously it is not likely that everyone will read every comment on a thread of this length. On hindsight, I probably should have simply said so in the lead-in paragraph of the article submission.

It is me being lazy, sorry.

Thank you in advance for any assistance you (or others) can offer.

If you don't mind, I'd like to see if some UK papers are interested in this.

Other Comments by Steve Zara

320. Comment #116859 by markg on January 27, 2008 at 4:27 pm

Double Bass Atheist

By the description on page one of this thread, it appears as if this kid only mentioned the website to other kids?
As far as getting your son's school involved, they probably would not be able to do or say anything, since this (unfortunately) is a 1st Amendment/free speech issue. If this kid had given your son a religous tract, or brought a laptop to school and was showing others the video, that would be something you could tell the school.

Other Comments by markg

321. Comment #116861 by NMcC on January 27, 2008 at 4:37 pm

Paula Kirby writes:

".....I would be inclined to confront the child's parents. Though there might also be something to be said for having a quiet word with the child himself: explaining how upsetting this video could be for some people and asking him to show a bit more consideration."

With all due respect Paula, I think this is exactly the wrong thing to do in these circumstances. Especially the idea of 'confronting' the child. It doesn't take much imagination to percieve how such a course of action could be misconstrued and misinterpreted, and, moreover, deliberately so.

No, the best thing to do is the simplest: contact the Headmaster/mistress and tell them what's happened. Explain firmly that you consider this kind of thing to be as bad as if the kid had been showing pornography and demand that the school speaks to the parents of the child in question. It's essential for you to be firm and resolute and to leave them in no doubt that you and your child are the injured party and that you are demanding an apology from both the school and this kid's parents. Make it clear that should an apology not be forthcoming, you'll have no hesitation in contacting the print and electronic media.

Of course, only you, Double bass atheist, can decide how far you want to publicise the incident and how much negative publicity you wish to shower on the christians.

P.S. I read your article in the Free Inquiry magazine, Paula, it was excellent. Congratulations.

Other Comments by NMcC

322. Comment #116872 by al-rawandi on January 27, 2008 at 5:06 pm

Double Bass Atheist,


You mentioned your name was Carmine Bello, not to sound rude, but I guessed you were from Jersey. I guess all the Sopranos I watched tainted me.

:-)


-Alex.

Other Comments by al-rawandi

323. Comment #116874 by Double Bass Atheist on January 27, 2008 at 5:08 pm

If you don't mind, I'd like to see if some UK papers are interested in this.

Go for it, Steve! The more negative press the Christians receive as a result of this video, the better. Oh, be sure to mention that our attempts at posting non-confrontational comments to that godtube site are quickly removed, as many here have seen.

By the description on page one of this thread, it appears as if this kid only mentioned the website to other kids?

Yes, markg, you are correct. This kid is only showing it to other kids. I'll have to double check with my son, but I'm pretty sure that the kid was preaching to the other kids (lunchroom, hallway conversations, etc.) and that he followed it up by sending out emails, including the link we are discussing now. I don't know if those emails were send by the kid from his home or via school system. That certainly makes a difference, and I will follow up on it. Thanks for pointing that out.

NMcC – I'm not sure I want to get the school involved. I think my son might have a problem with that one! However, if it turns out that the kid is using the public school resources to spread this junk, then I may have to take it to the school administration.

Regards,
~Carmine

Other Comments by Double Bass Atheist

324. Comment #116876 by Double Bass Atheist on January 27, 2008 at 5:14 pm

Very funny, Alex… very funny. ;-)
Sorry to disappoint you somewhat, but I can't even speak Italian.

Ya know, I wish I did have some 'connections'… I'd like to order a 'hit' on the godtube servers!

Other Comments by Double Bass Atheist

325. Comment #116878 by al-rawandi on January 27, 2008 at 5:17 pm

Double Bass Atheist,


No Italian? Damn. If I could order hits, there are several evangelicals that would be in the bottom of the river right now.

Other Comments by al-rawandi

326. Comment #116882 by Radesq on January 27, 2008 at 5:30 pm

I wasn't going to say anything DB but since Paula and NMcC have somewhat conflicting views I thought I might add my opinion. When I was a young man I rarely appreciated my parents getting involved in issues with other school children and I was not kind to children who got their parents involved. Certainly, it is always an option and sometimes the best one when your child's safety or well being is at stake. Since your child seems not to be afraid of or particularly close to the kid spreading this stuff around; maybe he should survey his (it was your son right?)friends and see what they thought if they viewed it. Then they could ask this boy "why did you send us that garbage?" and ask him not to do it again. Maybe they could tell him it makes him look bad to send such nasty messages to other people and why they think so. Not in a threatening way but in a confident way. You could support him in that endeavor. Of course you and others may think that is not enough and you/they may be right...but I would ask your child what he would prefer before pressing the issue. Good luck whatever you decide to do.

Other Comments by Radesq

327. Comment #116886 by Steve Zara on January 27, 2008 at 5:44 pm

No Italian? Damn. If I could order hits, there are several evangelicals that would be in the bottom of the river right now.

Metaphorically speaking, of course.

Other Comments by Steve Zara

328. Comment #116887 by al-rawandi on January 27, 2008 at 5:48 pm

Steve,


Of course metaphorically speaking. Although the ones who wanted to get "fag and fag-enablers" at the Heath Ledger funeral pushed me nearly out of the metaphorical.

But yes I was making reference to the Italian mob stereotype where the "rats" are put feet into a bucket and the bucket filled with cement and then they are thrown into a river.

Other Comments by al-rawandi

329. Comment #116890 by steveroot on January 27, 2008 at 5:52 pm

327. Comment #116878 by al-rawandi on January 27, 2008 at 5:17 pm
Double Bass Atheist,

No Italian? Damn. If I could order hits, there are several evangelicals that would be in the bottom of the river right now.

If you told them it was the river of the blood of Jesus, you wouldn't need the cement shoes!
Steve

Other Comments by steveroot

330. Comment #116891 by Double Bass Atheist on January 27, 2008 at 5:52 pm

Radesq –

When I was a young man I rarely appreciated my parents getting involved in issues with other school children and I was not kind to children who got their parents involved

That is precisely why I do NOT want to get the school involved. My son will think I'm making too big of an issue over this, and I certainly don't want to be the cause of any social problems for him at school.

I've been thinking about what I wrote earlier… IF it turns out that the kid is using school resources to spread his 'message', I think what will do is send an email to the school Principal (and requesting anonymity). The Principal can then ask the network tech admins to investigate it. There are log files created on all of the schools systems to monitor their activity. Therefore, this makes it an internal school problem, and my son and I would be left out of it.

Other Comments by Double Bass Atheist

331. Comment #116894 by al-rawandi on January 27, 2008 at 6:03 pm

Chihuahua Steve (hehehe),


I remember a religious whacko here was once telling everyone he had a PhD (in Biblical Studies no less). I scoffed at his PhD, and said they didn't have a certain correlation to intellect. I also noted that if he was a professor here in the US that why did 30% of Americans 18-24 fail to find the Pacific Ocean on a map.

I constructed a post (I don't remember if I actually posted it) which said, perhaps you can find the Pacific, and hurl yourself in, however, before make sure you secure your cement swimming trunks. I felt very Italian that day.

Other Comments by al-rawandi

332. Comment #116895 by al-rawandi on January 27, 2008 at 6:06 pm

Double Bass Atheist (aka Tony Soprano),


I think the email is a good idea. Even if he isn't using school reseources, just so they are aware, that would be prudent. Good insight on your part there.

I always hated my mom for trying to get involved with boys (and the occassional girl) who were mean to me.

Other Comments by al-rawandi

333. Comment #116896 by dlitt on January 27, 2008 at 6:07 pm

Comment #116849 by Double Bass Atheist on January 27, 2008 at 3:30 pm

[edit]If their kid is this deluded, one can only imagine what his parents are like!
My son does not really care all that much. He said he just blows the fool off. But I'm more concerned about other kids in his class that might not have the same understanding and could be influenced by this crap.[edit]

Good point about the other kids. Children's minds are quite pliable. This is why the young are so susceptible to cult-following. On the other hand, they are much more open to see points of reason than their parents, who have spent many more years imprinting their own dogma. Eradicating this 'mind-virus' will require work on a generational level in most cases.

At an age just before puberty, children start to migrate away from their parents and toward peer influence. It is most important that parents provide guidance while observing the friends their children gravitate toward. The friends they make as children will influence their entire lives.

Your child sounds like a well rounded thinker. He will likely provide his own influence to the friends he makes and retains throughout his teenage years.

Other Comments by dlitt

334. Comment #116897 by Double Bass Atheist on January 27, 2008 at 6:10 pm

al-rawandi -
Man Alex, you really have watched too many Sopranos episodes!

;-b

Thanks for the laugh!

~Carmine

Other Comments by Double Bass Atheist

335. Comment #116898 by Double Bass Atheist on January 27, 2008 at 6:16 pm

your child sounds like a well rounded thinker. He will likely provide his own influence to the friends he makes and retains throughout his teenage years.

He is. Thank you, dlitt.
If you are interested, here's story I posted here last September about just how I found out he did not believe in god. He was 9 at the time of the story...
http://www.richarddawkins.net/articleComments,1684,Keeping-the-faith-at-school,Louise-Brown-TheStarcom,page1#73664

Other Comments by Double Bass Atheist

336. Comment #116900 by dlitt on January 27, 2008 at 6:26 pm

He was 2 years ahead of me - I was 11.

Other Comments by dlitt

337. Comment #116902 by dlitt on January 27, 2008 at 6:29 pm

I was 'moved' by that story.

Other Comments by dlitt

338. Comment #116904 by dlitt on January 27, 2008 at 6:49 pm

Double Bass Atheist,

Here's my own personal diatribe:

http://richarddawkins.net/articleComments,2108,Six-Reasons-to-be-an-Atheist,The-Little-Book-of-Atheist-Spirituality,page4#108432

Other Comments by dlitt

339. Comment #116906 by Double Bass Atheist on January 27, 2008 at 7:00 pm

Thank you for sharing you story, dlitt. I always enjoy hearing how people came to realize that they've been mislead about the existence of god, and at what age.

A good quote:
"It is an interesting and demonstrable fact that all children are atheists, and were religion not inculcated into their minds, they would remain so."
– Ernestine Rose

Other Comments by Double Bass Atheist

340. Comment #116966 by dlitt on January 27, 2008 at 11:25 pm

You won't believe what I just found on 'godtube.com'... An advertisment for Ian Flemming's site, 'thegodmovie.com.'

This just made my day! These twits obviously don't check who's advertising.
"Hmm, the god movie dot com - sounds like a good movie to me."

Other Comments by dlitt

341. Comment #116972 by Paula Kirby on January 27, 2008 at 11:44 pm

NMcC: With all due respect Paula, I think this is exactly the wrong thing to do in these circumstances. Especially the idea of 'confronting' the child. It doesn't take much imagination to percieve how such a course of action could be misconstrued and misinterpreted, and, moreover, deliberately so.

You may well be right! Especially since it transpires that the child involved isn't a close friend of DBA's son. What I like about the approach is that it deals directly with the person responsible, without escalating matters - a quiet word may have been enough: it's probably never crossed this child's mind that there's another way of looking at his actions. I agree that there would be those who'd misconstrue it, and that they'd do so deliberately - but I don't think such people would be unanswerable, by any stretch of the imagination. Still - I do agree that it would probably be asking for trouble, and that it's even more problematic given that DBA doesn't really know the child concerned ... So I'm quite open to persuasion that it's a terrible idea!

P.S. I read your article in the Free Inquiry magazine, Paula, it was excellent. Congratulations.

Thank you. :-)

Other Comments by Paula Kirby

342. Comment #116977 by AtheistAspy on January 28, 2008 at 12:03 am

I don't get why anyone would be moved by a short video clip that didn't even SHOW what happened. You think they would have made it more graphic.

Other Comments by AtheistAspy

343. Comment #116983 by Boukeb on January 28, 2008 at 12:52 am

Double Bass Atheist,
I like this Ernestine Rose quote. Do you now of more discussion on this topic? Is there any contemporary research or study of this matter (Rose is mid 19th century)?

Other Comments by Boukeb

344. Comment #116984 by dj2baduk on January 28, 2008 at 12:56 am

Damn! I went to the godtube sight and signed up, then made my views clear in a respectful tone - except perhaps the bit at the end where I said if anyone pushed this on my kid I'd beat them within an insch of their life. Strangely, my comment's not there any more. 8o.

Other Comments by dj2baduk

345. Comment #116986 by daryll strawberry on January 28, 2008 at 1:07 am

The audio from this video is my new alarm alert.

Other Comments by daryll strawberry

346. Comment #116987 by NMcC on January 28, 2008 at 1:07 am

Double Bass Atheist

My last post was written in the context of assuming that your child was happy for you to pursue the matter with his school. It seems that this is not necessarily the case. If not, then my 'advice' would change to: under no circumstances go against your son's wishes as alienating or isolating him from his school chums in any way would be a hundred times worse than him being exposed to the ridiculous, self-defeating propaganda contained in this video.

Other Comments by NMcC

347. Comment #116992 by irate_atheist on January 28, 2008 at 2:01 am

303. Comment #116815 by lindseymwright -

You all are taking this so literally. It said the letter was written by a "fictitious" student. There is no claim to truth. The idea behind it is that for those of us who have a relationship with Christ, we should not conceal it. Yes, it is a call to evangelism. That was it's purpose. And it worked. It wasn't meant for non-belivers. It was written for those who do believe. God bless all your souls.

If you're having a relationship with a dead person that historians can't even be certain existed, I'd be inclined to consult a psychiatrist if I were you.

Other Comments by irate_atheist

348. Comment #117001 by Peacebeuponme on January 28, 2008 at 2:54 am

Double Bass Atheist
All I can do is echo others: your actions have to be guided by your sons wishes.

Maybe you could make your own atheist video with a slightly brighter outlook and distribute that!

Other Comments by Peacebeuponme

349. Comment #117002 by Peacebeuponme on January 28, 2008 at 2:58 am

You all are taking this so literally. It said the letter was written by a "fictitious" student. There is no claim to truth.

How silly of us. I'm sure all the schoolchildren who watched were not so literal and appreciated the subtle metaphors.

The aim was simple: to scare schoolchildren into indoctrination. In my book that is criminal child abuse.

Other Comments by Peacebeuponme

350. Comment #117006 by Peacebeuponme on January 28, 2008 at 3:10 am

On another topic:

I've just realised something. The thing that I don't like is the word "god",

If the Catholic Church still includes lapsed, but not excommunicated, people amongst the 1 billion, I'm including Omega369 as one of us next time there is a roll call.

Other Comments by Peacebeuponme