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Monday, January 28, 2008 | Reason : Wingnut News | print version Print | Comments

Document 'Irrational Atheist' trounces God-deniers

by Wold Net Daily

Thanks to Carl H. Silverman for the link.

Reposted from:
http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=59905

irrational atheistEditor's note: WorldNetDaily exclusive columnist Vox Day's new book, "The Irrational Atheist," scores a direct hit on atheism's most well-known practitioners. Using reason, science and historical documentation – not theology – Day argues the atheists into an inescapable corner.

WorldNetDaily Editor Joseph Farah recently interviewed Day about the new book, which is available at WND's online store.


Joseph Farah: The title of "The Irrational Atheist" refers to the Unholy Trinity of Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris and Christopher Hitchens, while Dawkins.Net is advertising the Four Horsemen of Atheism, which includes Daniel Dennett. Given that you wrote a chapter about Dennett, why didn't you include him in with the other three?

Vox Day: Originally, I intended to do just that. But after reading four of his books, it became quite clear that for all his atheism, Dennett really doesn't deserve to be lumped in with the other three. Despite his occasional problems with logic, Dennett is a respectable intellectual. He is seriously interested in the scientific questions, and he is very willing to ask hard questions about his own assumptions and core beliefs too. This is totally different than Dawkins, Harris and Hitchens, who are entirely occupied with making groundless assertions when they aren't busy drawing errant conclusions from incorrect data.

Farah: Why have we seen this explosion of atheist titles?

Day: It's a bit strange because the so-called New Atheists are really not new at all. There is very little that Richard Dawkins or Christopher Hitchens say that was not already said by Jean Meslier prior to his death in 1729. If Sam Harris didn't talk so much about Islam and make so many egregious errors, you'd think that he was Bertrand Russell's parrot. I suspect the reason is related to the current state of physics and the increasing uncertainty scientists feel about the universe based on the very, very low probability that the universe randomly happened to turn out the way it is now observed to be. Atheists have felt that science was on their side ever since the Enlightenment, and now they see it slipping away from them. So, this recent explosion of atheist books is not a sign of strength; it's a sign of desperation.

Farah: Are atheists becoming more militant? Extreme? Why?

Day: The outspoken ones are certainly becoming more desperate and shrill. Part of this is because they've got such terrible front-men. They've got these spokesmen who are demonstrably incapable of making a sober and rational case for atheism, so they have to make up for it by setting off rhetorical fireworks and making outlandish statements – for example, Dawkins's stupid assertion that a religious upbringing is worse than sexual child abuse. If I were an atheist, I'd be deeply embarrassed to have these clowns as the public face of my religious identification. I think the end result will be more atheists identifying themselves as agnostics, which is a much more reasonable perspective.

Farah: What are the consequences of widespread atheism?

Day: There are none, because atheism will never be a widespread phenomenon. Like socialism, it's a parasitic phenomenon that can't survive on its own. As Chesterton pointed out long ago, atheism rapidly mutates into paganism and diverse forms of spiritual absurdity. And we're already seeing signs that the post-Christian West is returning to paganism; it's not transforming into some sort of shiny, super-rational, post-superstitious science fiction society.

Farah: Why do you refer to Richard Dawkins as Darwin's Judas?

Day: He only finds Darwin useful insofar as his theory of evolution by natural selection can be used to eliminate the basis for a belief in a Creator God. As Dawkins states in his own words, he's "a passionate anti-Darwinian" with regards to the proper conduct of human affairs. Dawkins thinks humanity should follow Darwin just long enough to cast off Jesus Christ, then ditch Darwin in favor of following Richard Dawkins' opinion on life, the universe and everything. Just like philosophers, you can always count on a scientist to come around eventually to the concept of rule by scientist-king.

Farah: You compare Sam Harris to Michael Bellesiles, who was convicted of academic fraud and lost the Bancroft Prize awarded to him. Is that a fair comparison?

Day: It's probably not fair to Bellesiles. He may have made stuff up, but at least he can handle elementary school division. I also suspect he knows the difference between difficult concepts like "counties" and "states." Harris demonstrably does not.

Farah: What are the most common mistakes made by Christian apologists when dealing with atheism? How is "The Irrational Atheist" different?

Day: Too many Christians forget that their basic assumptions are not shared by the atheist with whom they're talking. Christians always want to quote the Bible to try to prove a point, but to the atheist, that's no more meaningful than reading Shakespeare at them. And Christians often want to talk about the way God makes them feel, forgetting that the atheist's feelings are equally relevant. My book doesn't rely on the Bible or theological gymnastics or emotional appeals; it simply makes use of detailed historical and scientific evidence in order to expose the logical and factual flaws in every atheist argument you're likely to encounter. "The Irrational Atheist" isn't a defense of God or Christianity; I assume the Creator Lord of the Universe can defend Himself. He doesn't need my help.

Farah: Are you considering an apologetic sequel making a case for Christianity?

Day: Not at the moment. Right now, I'm more interested in the philosophical implications of biotechnology. Cross some of biotech's more questionable developments with globalism and post-Christian paganism, and it's not hard to see that we're looking at some crazy days ahead.

Farah: I've heard the book has gotten off to a great start. So why are you making the entire book available as a free download from your blog?

Day: Yeah, it's already on its second print-run ahead of the official release date. As for the download, my theory is that the main problem from which most books suffer is that too few potential readers have heard about them, so I figure that word of mouth from someone who's read the ebook is just as important as that from someone who's read the hardcover. Also, if people like a book that they've read, whether it's a download, a library book or just one they borrowed from a friend, they want to have it. I must have four or five copies of Eco's "The Name of the Rose" myself, not counting translations. But "The Irrational Atheist" ebook isn't a free download per se. It's a Radiohead-style pay-what-you want setup, which includes the option to pay nothing. Various formats including PDF, PDB and LIT will be available starting on the official publication date of Feb. 1.

Farah: Or they could buy it right here at WorldNetDaily today.

Day: That would be even better.

Farah: One last question, and it's an important one. When are you going to lose that ridiculous mohawk and grow a righteous mustache like mine?

Day: The hawk is gone, I'm sad to say. But I'm not sure I've got what it takes pull off the Magnum P.I. look.

Comments 501 - 550 of 1993 | | View Alternate Comment Thread

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501. Comment #118578 by markg on January 30, 2008 at 7:13 pm

 avatarBegonetodaynow

Here is a question for you: Can you bend spoons (with your moms permission, of course?)

Oh, I just reread your post. That was a physics question you wanted, not a psychic question.

Other Comments by markg

502. Comment #118579 by LorienRyan on January 30, 2008 at 7:14 pm

 avatarWell, Becomeshallow, own up.

Other Comments by LorienRyan

503. Comment #118580 by Double Bass Atheist on January 30, 2008 at 7:15 pm

 avatarWhat "turn of phrase" was that? "I gotta go pee"?

No need to apologize for some ultra-bizarre stalker... but instead, thanks for all the laughs!

Other Comments by Double Bass Atheist

504. Comment #118581 by Steve Zara on January 30, 2008 at 7:15 pm

 avatar
so I guess you will have to show how intentionality and truth-aptness do not disappear with materialism.


I was more thinking of trying to show that these are actually irrelevant to the matter of materialism, but your approach is interesting.

Other Comments by Steve Zara

505. Comment #118582 by al-rawandi on January 30, 2008 at 7:15 pm

 avatarOOOOHHH it's like Melrose Place.

Other Comments by al-rawandi

506. Comment #118583 by al-rawandi on January 30, 2008 at 7:17 pm

 avatarIs this someone's illegitimate child? Oh No.... is it mine?

Other Comments by al-rawandi

507. Comment #118584 by Double Bass Atheist on January 30, 2008 at 7:19 pm

 avatarSteve – I have to admire your focus… in what has become the weirdest thread I've ever read!

Other Comments by Double Bass Atheist

508. Comment #118585 by Steve Zara on January 30, 2008 at 7:19 pm

 avatar
Apologies in advance to everyone if this does have something to do with me.


There is no need to apologise for someone else's actions.

Other Comments by Steve Zara

509. Comment #118586 by LorienRyan on January 30, 2008 at 7:20 pm

 avataral-rawandi, or is it Becom....

Crack up!

Other Comments by LorienRyan

510. Comment #118587 by Radesq on January 30, 2008 at 7:20 pm

 avatarSorry al-rawandi, I thought this had to be somebody with a sense of humor just screwing with us. Apparently it is not as funny as I thought.

Other Comments by Radesq

511. Comment #118588 by Diacanu on January 30, 2008 at 7:21 pm

 avatarCartomancer-

Check your bunnies, and lock your doors!

Other Comments by Diacanu

512. Comment #118590 by markg on January 30, 2008 at 7:22 pm

 avatarCartomancer

Maybe he was mesmerised by the shiny light in back of your head?

Other Comments by markg

513. Comment #118591 by Cartomancer on January 30, 2008 at 7:22 pm

 avatarI could be wrong...

Other Comments by Cartomancer

514. Comment #118592 by MPhil on January 30, 2008 at 7:23 pm

 avatarThe old problem with the self-refutation:
Any arguments you forward have to be valid.
Any statements about states-of-affairs you make in order to make that argument have to be true, or else your argument fails.
If you argue for a position that does not allow for thoughts and sentences to be about anything, to be propositions, and generally for statements about states-of-affairs to be true or false - then even if things are as you say, there would be no arguments and no meaningful sentences, therefore you undermine your own position by in fact declaring that there can be no arguments for anything, as meaning does not exist, nor does truth or falsehood.

Other Comments by MPhil

515. Comment #118593 by Double Bass Atheist on January 30, 2008 at 7:25 pm

 avatarWhere did Arrowhead go? Crying in mom's lap, no doubt.

Other Comments by Double Bass Atheist

516. Comment #118594 by al-rawandi on January 30, 2008 at 7:26 pm

 avatarI am too busy copying and pasting everything to a word doc. I want to turn this in as a paper one day. You can't make it up.

Other Comments by al-rawandi

517. Comment #118595 by Double Bass Atheist on January 30, 2008 at 7:29 pm

 avataral-rawandi-
It's said that truth is stranger then fiction, and I think this thread is proof of that!

Other Comments by Double Bass Atheist

518. Comment #118596 by Radesq on January 30, 2008 at 7:29 pm

 avatarShould Becomethearrow return here's a cheat sheet for his likely next comments also from the Waterboy:

Young Bobby Boucher: [Flashback To Bobby's Childhood] Mama, When Did Ben Franklin Invent Electricity?
Mama Boucher: That's Nonsense, I Invented Electricity. Ben Franklin Is The Devil!

Other Comments by Radesq

519. Comment #118597 by Diacanu on January 30, 2008 at 7:30 pm

 avatarWell, Vox, this whole sic a retarded gay stalker on a popular atheist poster tactic is terrible marketing indeed.

Other Comments by Diacanu

520. Comment #118599 by LorienRyan on January 30, 2008 at 7:32 pm

 avatarWhat sort of crazy farm is Vox running over there

Other Comments by LorienRyan

521. Comment #118600 by Kardashovel on January 30, 2008 at 7:33 pm

Does anyone here categorically reject the possibility that our distant descendants will master time travel, including the ability to travel to the past?

Other Comments by Kardashovel

522. Comment #118601 by Frankus1122 on January 30, 2008 at 7:33 pm

 avatarThis is getting way too funny.

Other Comments by Frankus1122

523. Comment #118602 by Steve Zara on January 30, 2008 at 7:33 pm

 avatar
If you argue for a position that does not allow for thoughts and sentences to be about anything,


Ah no, that is not my position. It is that meaning is an abstraction. All that has to exist in some form are symbols that represent what things are "about". Which brings one to the issue of representations in the brain... and to the work of the Churchlands.

Other Comments by Steve Zara

524. Comment #118603 by LorienRyan on January 30, 2008 at 7:34 pm

 avataroh no

Other Comments by LorienRyan

525. Comment #118604 by al-rawandi on January 30, 2008 at 7:34 pm

 avatarWait, I read through this thread.


Goldy,


We had a blow job queen? Who is the fucking genius who scared her off?

Now the truck driver was funny. Did you see my post after he flipped out and actually posted.

"No I am not Vox Day, I am a fucking truck driver from Columbus, Ohio"

I nearly died.

Other Comments by al-rawandi

526. Comment #118606 by Double Bass Atheist on January 30, 2008 at 7:35 pm

 avatarHere we go AGAIN...
Kardashovel's profile shows he/she/it just joined the RD net, too!

Other Comments by Double Bass Atheist

527. Comment #118607 by al-rawandi on January 30, 2008 at 7:35 pm

 avatarI believe in time travel.


That is how the anti-christ Richard Dawkins IV put all those fake fossils in the ground. I mean it's either that or evolution. Which one makes more sense?

Other Comments by al-rawandi

528. Comment #118608 by Steve Zara on January 30, 2008 at 7:36 pm

 avatar
We had a blow job queen? Who is the fucking genius who scared her off?


*blush*

That is how the anti-christ Richard Dawkins IV put all those fake fossils in the ground.


Makes more sense to me than God Did It.

Other Comments by Steve Zara

529. Comment #118609 by MPhil on January 30, 2008 at 7:37 pm

 avatarExactly, Steve... but that last part is critical, how can brain-states "be about" anything and have "content"... that's what the Churchlands are all about.

Other Comments by MPhil

530. Comment #118611 by Goldy on January 30, 2008 at 7:38 pm

Al, http://ohprettylady.blogspot.com/2006/07/how-to-give-good-christian-blowjob.html
:-)
Off home now. This has been an interesting discussion.
Truth-aptness? What does that mean? Isn't truth a bit fluid - doesn't it depend on who is doing the telling and who is doing the listening? Hmmm - not sure I understand what that all means...

Other Comments by Goldy

531. Comment #118612 by Kardashovel on January 30, 2008 at 7:40 pm

I would put my question to you, Becomethearrow.

Do you rule out time travel, based on your understanding of physical theory?

Other Comments by Kardashovel

532. Comment #118613 by Diacanu on January 30, 2008 at 7:40 pm

 avatarBecomethearrow-

Why is your box better than mine


HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!

HAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!

Can't....breathe.....

Other Comments by Diacanu

533. Comment #118615 by Double Bass Atheist on January 30, 2008 at 7:42 pm

 avatarOh no... now there talking to each other!

This HAS to be a setup of some kind.

Other Comments by Double Bass Atheist

534. Comment #118616 by Steve Zara on January 30, 2008 at 7:42 pm

 avatar
Exactly, Steve... but that last part is critical, how can brain-states "be about" anything and have "content"... that's what the Churchlands are all about.


Well, I believe I could work up a half-decent argument about that from what I have read of Hofstadter, but you have convinced me to look at the Churchlands' work.

Other Comments by Steve Zara

535. Comment #118617 by Double Bass Atheist on January 30, 2008 at 7:42 pm

 avatarDiacanu - have you EVER seen anything like this???

Other Comments by Double Bass Atheist

536. Comment #118618 by al-rawandi on January 30, 2008 at 7:42 pm

 avatarHAHAHA

Kardashovel....


I have box she says



LOL

Other Comments by al-rawandi

537. Comment #118619 by al-rawandi on January 30, 2008 at 7:43 pm

 avatarYour mom has a box.... I hope everyone on the other side of the pond gets that euphemism.


Oh God, it hurts, it hurts. Your mom's box. HAHAHA

Other Comments by al-rawandi

538. Comment #118620 by al-rawandi on January 30, 2008 at 7:44 pm

 avatarDiacanu,


You beat me to it.


AHAHAHAHAH what a joke.

Did this guys take some time away from masturbating to donkey on blonde porn to throw a few posts on RD?

Other Comments by al-rawandi

539. Comment #118621 by LorienRyan on January 30, 2008 at 7:44 pm

 avatarBecomeshallow and asshovel,

you guys are a scream

Other Comments by LorienRyan

540. Comment #118622 by pkruger on January 30, 2008 at 7:47 pm

Incredible. Blacknad comes waltzing in here trying to scare us all on how we will see RD' arguments be toppled once and for all after reading this most recent Dawkins flea--and he manages accomplish just the opposite.

Apart from his obvious taunting with the contents of Vox's book; subsequently being hesistant at first and then not offering any of its contents--due to the fact that he later implies( but does not admit outright ) that he hasn't read Vox's book at all. And even though he says he has, nor has he read TGD either.

He quotes 'atheist' Brent Rasmussen reacting to Vox's book saying things like: "It was actually painful for me [to] read"..and "..and completely disheartening take-down of some of the best arguments that the godless have put into print"...and.."."Amazing. And depressing."..and "Trust me, it wasn't pretty...."

Had Blacknad read TGD, he would have come across Dawkins describing how his colleaugues are in fact actually thrilled to be shown their previously held notions were falsified, and even go so far as to congratulate those who are able to do so. However, now Blacknad would have us believe Rassmussen reacts to Vox's book sounds morelike how a theist would envision himself reacting had an atheist convinced him a theistic position was shown to be false. And this is why I strongly suspect this quotation--apparently written by an atheist--was in fact written by a theist trying to somehow convince an atheist audience that an atheist position is incorrect.

Other Comments by pkruger

541. Comment #118623 by Double Bass Atheist on January 30, 2008 at 7:47 pm

 avatarThere's that 'separated by a common language' thing again... so I'll be the dumb American to ask. What's the meaning?

Other Comments by Double Bass Atheist

542. Comment #118624 by Kardashovel on January 30, 2008 at 7:47 pm

How rude, LorienRyan. Fortunately I know you don't mean it.

I take it, then, that you do not rule out the possibility of time travel at the whim of our descendants, say a million years from now?

Other Comments by Kardashovel

543. Comment #118625 by Diacanu on January 30, 2008 at 7:49 pm

 avatarDouble Bass Atheist-

A box is a dame's hoo-hoo-dilley.

Other Comments by Diacanu

544. Comment #118626 by MPhil on January 30, 2008 at 7:50 pm

 avatarTruth-aptness is the quality of propositions like "My computer screen before me is an LCD display and not a Brownian tube display", "Earth is not further from the sun than Jupiter" that makes it possible to assign a truth-value to them, either 1 (or "true"), or 0 ("false). Sentences that express a proposition which can be either true or false are called "truth-apt". Sentences like "Hello there, how are you?" are not truth apt in that way.

Other Comments by MPhil

545. Comment #118627 by Steve Zara on January 30, 2008 at 7:51 pm

 avatar
A box is a dame's hoo-hoo-dilley.


Translation for Brits:

"a lady's naughty bits"

[Thinks: Oh no, I am reduced to this? Time to desist on this thread]

Other Comments by Steve Zara

546. Comment #118628 by LorienRyan on January 30, 2008 at 7:51 pm

 avatarKardshuffle,

Definately not, I will travel back through this thread for a good hearty laugh - good medicine.

Other Comments by LorienRyan

547. Comment #118629 by al-rawandi on January 30, 2008 at 7:51 pm

 avatarDiacanu,


I couldn't believe I was reading that.

Hoo hoo-dilley.

Double Bass,


I can't believe for a second that you are living in Jersey and don't know what a "box" is. You should get out more.

Other Comments by al-rawandi

548. Comment #118631 by markg on January 30, 2008 at 7:53 pm

 avatarHey lady,

I called it back at 494: Begonetodaynow's acquaintance with his mothers box.

Yeah

Other Comments by markg

549. Comment #118633 by Steve Zara on January 30, 2008 at 7:55 pm

 avatarOh dear. I think this may indirectly be my fault.

http://richarddawkins.net/articleComments,2184,The-Science-behind-the-Large-Hadron-Collider,Labreporter,page2#116841

Other Comments by Steve Zara

550. Comment #118634 by al-rawandi on January 30, 2008 at 7:55 pm

 avatarBecomethearrow,


Try this formula


8--------D

Other Comments by al-rawandi
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