1. Comment #127943 by BigJohn on February 15, 2008 at 7:19 pm

Well, I gave all I could give, $150.00, I don't know what else I can do. How about you?

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2. Comment #127946 by MattInOz on February 15, 2008 at 7:20 pm

I for one feel extremely strongly that people like Aayan should be given access to the full protection of the law by default when playing such a pivotal and outspoken role. The danger for someone like her is very real.

Incidently, does anyone know where we can get an update as to whether the proceeds of Sam's appeal have reached their targets (or are close)? Entries such as this one suggest not....

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3. Comment #127950 by MattInOz on February 15, 2008 at 7:31 pm

Yeah John, I just signed up for the recurring monthly $25 a couple of months ago as I figured that's nothing in the long run. You could spend that on beer OR have Aayan continue to work for the emancipation of Muslim women and the furthering the wider rationalistic cause... a no brainer really.

Other Comments by MattInOz

4. Comment #127951 by Diacanu on February 15, 2008 at 7:35 pm

Tch, the poor bitch is still having to beg?
Disgraceful.
Not to her, I mean this fucking world.

Other Comments by Diacanu

5. Comment #127958 by Mango on February 15, 2008 at 7:48 pm

As Christopher Hitchens said at the AAI meeting in the autumn, any of us would get between her and anyone who intended to do her harm. Lacking that opportunity, however, I'm happy to contribute monetarily to her protection.

Other Comments by Mango

6. Comment #127960 by Star Spangled Eagle on February 15, 2008 at 7:49 pm

One can never underestimate the power of religious dogma. It's really quite depressing. I'm sorry, it's why I love Christopher Hitchens so much, he smokes and drinks because sometimes, in this world of ours, thats all you can do.

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7. Comment #127965 by Rtambree on February 15, 2008 at 8:02 pm

When she was in London last year at the RSA, there were two large security guards there, but still I got right next to her when I walked out at the end (and no one even checked my ID, bags or ticket when I walked in). I could've had my choice of attack if I was so inclined.

Being followed around by two beefcakes is good for show, but a determined attacker that wasn't afraid of legal consequences could easily get to her if she's going to keep making public appearances. How many guards is enough? I don't know.

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8. Comment #127968 by Logicel on February 15, 2008 at 8:15 pm

Finally, something that BHL does about which I can feel positive.

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9. Comment #127986 by NewSkeptic on February 15, 2008 at 8:38 pm

I can easily imagine the French putting a protective arm about Ayaan; maybe there's an understanding between them, that if Ayaan becomes a French National then France will arrange for her safety.

Speaking out against any religion should not cost you your life.

If we agree with that, then we must support those who espouse that principle, and have put their life at stake to do so.

(I'm preaching to the choir, aren't I? Please excuse the utterly inappropriate turn-of-phrase. ;)

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10. Comment #127988 by Diacanu on February 15, 2008 at 8:40 pm

What a difference time makes.
Tom Paine almost got the chop in France for speaking out against religion.

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11. Comment #128005 by Teratornis on February 15, 2008 at 9:22 pm

In reply to comment #127958 by Mango:

As Christopher Hitchens said at the AAI meeting in the autumn, any of us would get between her and anyone who intended to do her harm.

I believe the exact quote involved taking bullets. Speaking for myself only, I'd be more inclined to shoot bullets at Islamic assailants rather than absorb theirs. As General George Patton famously said, no sonofabitch ever won a war by dying for his country; he won the war by making the enemy sonofabitch die for his country. I have no experience with operating firearms, but they seem simple enough for the least educated members of my culture, so I imagine I could get up to speed pretty quickly if the need arose.

Lacking that opportunity, however, I'm happy to contribute monetarily to her protection.

Another option would be for everybody to convert to Islam, and then apostasize. That would overwhelm the religious fanatics with too many targets.

We could also place giant billboards with pictures of Mohammed on our dwellings. If we get everybody in the developed world to blaspheme Islam, they won't know who to blow up first.

But seriously, why not just let Ayaan Hirsi Ali move to Montana and live in one of the heavily armed communities out there? She could cease with all the wasteful jetting around the world to make personal appearances, which merely burns petroleum thus pumping even more money into the cause of Islam, and instead give her speeches via videoconferencing, and do her research online. Petroleum-fueled physical travel solely for the purpose of exchanging information is criminally incompetent. And we have to learn to stop doing it anyway because soon enough even the Muslims are going to run out of petroleum to sell. (Not before we hand them trillions more dollars/euros/yen/yuan/etc. to invest in spreading Islam, of course, thanks to the utter stupidity of the developed countries, with the United States as the chief offender as the world's largest importer of petroleum.)

Before someone points out that the U.S. imports most of its petroleum from Mexico, Canada, Venezuela, etc., be aware that petroleum is a fungible commodity, and thus the price for petroleum results from the global supply and demand. When Americans burn petroleum from Mexico, then the Saudis, Iranians, and Iraqi insurgents make more money. In any case, Mexico is already past its oil peak, and its domestic demand is growing, so it will soon join the growing ranks of nations switching from the oil exporter column to the oil importer column. The U.S. has had to steadily increase its imports from the Middle East epicenter of Islam because that's where most of the world's last remaining easily-accessible petroleum is.

And of course that is why the U.S. has steadily escalated its Endless Petroleum War which started back in the 1970's.

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12. Comment #128013 by mejdrich on February 15, 2008 at 9:33 pm

Tch, the poor bitch is still having to beg?

Watch your mouth, Diacanu.

(wow, that's something I never thought I'd say on richarddawkins.net)

Other Comments by mejdrich

13. Comment #128018 by Diacanu on February 15, 2008 at 9:48 pm

mejdrich-

Aw come on.
It wasn't derogatory.
If it were a guy, I'd say poor bastard.
I 'unno, it's just something ya say...
Loosen up!

Other Comments by Diacanu

14. Comment #128033 by dlitt on February 15, 2008 at 10:23 pm

Try Canada, Ayaan - we'll have ya! Eh?

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15. Comment #128034 by Paine on February 15, 2008 at 10:26 pm

I think the US govt has behaved shamefully in the whole matter. For the richest country in the world and self-proclaimed universal defender of human rights, they have pathetically refused to raise a finger in defense of Ayaan.

Compare this to the protection offered( albeit grudgingly) to Taslima Nasreen by third-world India. Taslima faces a much bigger threat than Ayaan, and despite pressure from politicians, violent mobs and sundry fanatics, the world's second-largest Muslim nation extended her visa and continues to provide her with round-the-clock security.

Ofcourse, part of the support for her is from the right-wing Hindus who love to see Muslims being insulted, but the majority defend her right to free speach. The US really should hang its head in shame.

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16. Comment #128048 by bucketchemist on February 15, 2008 at 11:24 pm

She was threatened in a note left on his body for writing the script for Van Gogh's Submission - a highly controversial film alleging that women were being abused under Islam.

I'm not sure I'd refer to Submission as 'controversial'; The responses to the film seem to me to be either intellectual agreement or violent opposition, which are not the equivalencies you would need for a true controversy.

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17. Comment #128052 by milt on February 16, 2008 at 12:45 am

I agree with previous comment.
'Controversial' suggests a source of REASONABLE argument.
It's not controversial to say the KKK are a racist organization, Evolution is not really a controversial scientific theory, and it's not controversial to say many jews were persecuted in WWII.
The line should read something like:

...Submission - a film that ignited violent threats for daring to highlight the abuse of women under Islam.

Surely "alleging" is not needed by any sane report of the situation?

Other Comments by milt

18. Comment #128055 by Conrad on February 16, 2008 at 1:40 am

I'm only ashamed that the US doesn't get the great pride of calling her our own. Though, I must admit a slight tinge of joy at seeing the French taking her in. Sadly, none of the neo-cons will see the irony.

Other Comments by Conrad

19. Comment #128065 by Homo economicus on February 16, 2008 at 2:40 am

To contact your Member of European Parliament (MEP) follow this link:

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/

choose language and at the top there should be a "Your MEPs" at the top which will let you find your representive.

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20. Comment #128074 by Forti on February 16, 2008 at 3:17 am

^ Thanks, I'll look it up.

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21. Comment #128076 by akjginge on February 16, 2008 at 3:24 am

Request posted to my Euro MP asking for his support for Ayan's protection

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22. Comment #128081 by mjwemdee on February 16, 2008 at 3:50 am

re Comment #128055 by Conrad

Exactly. What price 'Give me your huddled masses...' etc.

Maybe the French should ask for the Statue of Liberty back.

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23. Comment #128086 by Enlightenme.. on February 16, 2008 at 4:44 am

Thanks for your suggestion & link Homoeconomicus,
Just written a cc e-mail to this lot representing South west;

1. BOOTH, Graham
Independence/Democracy Group

2. CHICHESTER, Giles
Group of the European People's Party (Christian Democrats) and European Democrats

3. FORD, Glyn
Socialist Group in the European Parliament

4. JACKSON, Caroline
Group of the European People's Party (Christian Democrats) and European Democrats

5. KNAPMAN, Roger
Independence/Democracy Group

6. PARISH, Neil
Group of the European People's Party (Christian Democrats) and European Democrats

7. WATSON, Graham
Group of the Alliance of Liberals and Democrats for Europe

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24. Comment #128089 by an_ant_under_a_penny on February 16, 2008 at 4:53 am

Rtambree: Maybe I'm being paranoid, but is it a good idea to publicly announce this on a website? The walls have ears. ;)

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25. Comment #128091 by Mango on February 16, 2008 at 5:47 am

Tetratornis comment 12 I believe the exact quote involved taking bullets.

I spun up the DVD of the speech to uncover whether my memory from that day was mistaken. The quote is, "There isn't anyone in this room who wouldn't very proudly stand between you and anyone who wished you harm."

Other Comments by Mango

26. Comment #128094 by sarah95 on February 16, 2008 at 6:25 am

I agree with the previous posters that highlighted the irony that France, with its huge population of Muslims, has offered protection before the ostentatious "war on terror" money-spenders in the white house. What better PR than protecting physical safety, free speech, and criticizm of Islam all at the same time? You'd think that the US govt would understand how popular such a move would be, aside from the obvious fact that it's simply the right thing to do.

If Bush wants to talk about heroic terror-fighting, amazing American wealth, and dispell accusations of disregard for human rights, then why would he not extend the umbrella to Ayaan, an obvious ally?(She's affiliated with a neo-con think tank for heaven's sake! What more do they want?)

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27. Comment #128101 by Mango on February 16, 2008 at 7:09 am

comment 30 I would not stand between AHA and harm. I suspect those who claim they would are just attempting to seem heroic and manly."

Perhaps Hitchens was overestimating the solidarity of his audience. I can only speak for myself, of course. I have neither children nor a wife to think of when considering danger to myself. And one can never be certain how one will react in a crisis until it comes. That being said, I do intend to intervene whether it is AHA who is being set upon by thugs, or anyone else who is in danger from those who seek to violently dispossess people from their freedom of speech.

Other Comments by Mango

28. Comment #128103 by HughCaldwell on February 16, 2008 at 7:23 am

"France, with its huge population of Muslims, has offered protection 29. Comment #128094 by sarah95 on February 16, 2008 at 6:25 am"

That's incorrect. France hasn't offered protection. It's not ironic, but perfectly normal, that the United States should not offer protection to a private citizen and completely absurd to expect they would offer it to somebody who is not even an American citizen.

Put your money where your mouth is and send a donation (assuming you haven't done so already).

Other Comments by HughCaldwell

29. Comment #128110 by HughCaldwell on February 16, 2008 at 7:56 am

"As I probably will not be donating any money33. Comment #128106 by babrock on February 16, 2008 at 7:37 am "

What's stopping you? Just follow the link. If you've any problems, I'll explain things for you.
http://www.samharris.org/site/security_trust

Other Comments by HughCaldwell

30. Comment #128112 by Roland_F on February 16, 2008 at 8:03 am

How many people should be protected from Islamic fundamentalists ?
Salman Rushdie, AHA, this Dutch right wing politicians who is making a new film against Islamic militants, Danish cartoonist, Danish newspaper publisher, Afghan converts to Christendom, or even the British teacher who named her teddy Mohammed and had an agitated mop wanting to kill her.

There are too many fatwa’s out there, too many fanatical Muslims who feel offended about everything. Can we pay several bodyguards for any of their intended victims ?

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31. Comment #128113 by Matt H. on February 16, 2008 at 8:07 am

If I had children, I'd protect them from harm, without hesitation. I'd take bullets or knife wounds to keep them from dying. I'd gladly give my own life if it meant protecting theirs.

However I cannot, and should not be expected to, do the same for someone I do not know. I have never met Miss Hirsi Ali, I probably never will. I do not personally know anyone who personally knows her. I cannot put myself in danger to protect someone I do not know.

I can, however, donate to her security fund. I will gladly do so. I can give money to a stranger, I cannot give my life for a stranger.

Other Comments by Matt H.

32. Comment #128117 by jeroen on February 16, 2008 at 8:27 am

BBC writes: "...because the Dutch government had stopped paying for her security."

Um... but she decided to leave the Netherlands on her own account. She is welcome to stay in the Netherlands as a Dutch citizen with full protection paid. I can see the point of my government that if she goes abroad, apparently a permanent move, they shouldn't have to pay for security there. I'm pretty sure the US also would not pay for the protection of private individuals who choose to move abroad. Especially as she's working for this wealthy thinktank now.

I admire her work and hope she'll come home to the Netherlands again. No reason to go and become French.

Other Comments by jeroen

33. Comment #128118 by MaxD on February 16, 2008 at 8:29 am

I think she would be more of less safe living here in the states. Especially in the mid-west, live rurally, or in some small mid-western city, where influxes of strangers will tend to get noticed and she is good to go. I think there some houses in my neighborhood for sale.

Other Comments by MaxD

34. Comment #128119 by HughCaldwell on February 16, 2008 at 8:31 am

"How many people should be protected from Islamic fundamentalists ?
Can we pay several bodyguards for any of their intended victims ? 35. Comment #128112 by Roland_F on February 16, 2008 at 8:03 am "

Which, precisely, of any of those you mention, or didn't mention, is soliciting protection which they are not getting and which a donation from you might provide, apart from Ayaan Hirsi Ali?

Other Comments by HughCaldwell

35. Comment #128120 by poppythinks on February 16, 2008 at 8:41 am

just emailed all the london members of european parliament with this -

I would like to draw your attention to the following link concerning Ayaan Hirsi Ali.
http://richarddawkins.net/article,2269,Ayaan-Hirsi-Ali-asks-for-protection,BBC
I am most concerned that people like her should have to live in constant danger of losing their lives.
I would like the European Union to agree some form of protection, and provide the kind of 24 hour security that she deserves.
It would also send out a very strong message to all religions/ideologies that the European community finds the behaviour of her would-be assassins totally unacceptable and against
basic human rights.
It is most imortant and urgent that people like Hirsi Ali should continue to do all the good work they have been doing for years - encouraging a world-wide understanding of Islam - its
oppression of women and murder of those considered
'un-Islamic', especially those who speak out publicly against Islam.
If you have not already read her book 'Infidel', I would urge you to get a copy immediately. It gives a personal/political account of growing up as a muslim, and the events and experiences
that make her decide to turn away from Islam.
We are all spending billions on security against terrorism, I'm sure some funding could be found to protect Hirsi Ali.
I would much rather keep her safe than waste all those billions on Olympic games.
yours sincerely...........

if anyone in the uk would like to locate their euro mp's and send emails click on
http://www.europarl.org.uk/uk_meps/MembersMain.htm

Other Comments by poppythinks

36. Comment #128123 by Ian Bamlett on February 16, 2008 at 8:54 am

How many guards is enough? I don't know.

Harold Wilson, (former British labour Prime minister), is said to have once introduced one of his special branch bodyguards as 'the guy who shoots the guy who just shot me'

President Nixon confided his view that 'all it takes it one nut who is willing to end his life to end the presidents'. In other words, someone not afraid of consequences.

Ronald Reagan was shot in 1981 by a lone gunman despite being surrounded by secret service body guards. And as we know Benazir Bhutto was just assassinated.

In comparison to these people I suspect Ayann has very little protection. Bottom line; if some nut wants her dead - she's dead.

Other Comments by Ian Bamlett

37. Comment #128125 by AllanW on February 16, 2008 at 9:06 am

Sent this to all 9 of my regional MEP's;

I would like to draw your attention to the following link concerning Ayaan Hirsi Ali.
http://richarddawkins.net/article,2269,Ayaan-Hirsi-Ali-asks-for-protection,BBC

I am most concerned that she has to live in constant danger of losing her life and therefore urge the European Union to agree some form of protection to provide the kind of 24-hour security that she deserves.

It would also send out a very strong message to all religions that the European community finds the behaviour of her would-be assassins totally unacceptable and contrary to basic human rights.

If you have not already read her book 'Infidel', I would urge you to get a copy immediately. It gives a personal account of growing up as a Muslim woman and the events and experiences that made her decide to turn away from Islam.

We are all spending billions on security against terrorism; I'm sure some funding could be found to protect her.

Yours sincerely

Allan Wort

Other Comments by AllanW

38. Comment #128126 by Enlightenme.. on February 16, 2008 at 9:10 am

Count me in for standing in front of people being threatened by agitated mops.

Other Comments by Enlightenme..

39. Comment #128127 by HughCaldwell on February 16, 2008 at 9:11 am

"if some nut wants her dead - she's dead. 41. Comment #128123 by Ian Bamlett on February 16, 2008 at 8:54 am "

If you want a fig-leaf of rationality for being a cheapskate and idle bystander, you'll have show more ingenuity than that. Of those you mention, only Benazhir Bhutto was actually killed and she wasn't following recommended security procedures. It shouldn't take a moments thought to find examples of those wanted dead who have been adequately protected. Salman Rushdie comes immediately to mind.

Other Comments by HughCaldwell

40. Comment #128129 by Paine on February 16, 2008 at 9:20 am

It's not ironic, but perfectly normal, that the United States should not offer protection to a private citizen and completely absurd to expect they would offer it to somebody who is not even an American citizen.

That's exactly the kind of nonsense that makes the US look even stupider than it is. If India can afford to protect Taslima, Im sure the US can afford to protect Ayaan.

Instead of handing millions to those Blackwater thugs to guard the corrupt Iraqi politicians, they should fund some security for Ayaan.

Other Comments by Paine

41. Comment #128131 by HughCaldwell on February 16, 2008 at 9:29 am

"Instead of handing millions to those Blackwater thugs to guard the corrupt Iraqi politicians, they should fund some security for Ayaan. 45. Comment #128129 by Paine on February 16, 2008 at 9:20 am "

It's preposterous to expect the American government to act against its nature.

Other Comments by HughCaldwell

42. Comment #128133 by Ian Bamlett on February 16, 2008 at 9:30 am

....for being a cheapskate and idle bystander

You can assume neither from my comments.

Other Comments by Ian Bamlett

43. Comment #128135 by MaxD on February 16, 2008 at 9:39 am

I do think it is in the best interest of the US to support people like Ayaan for the simple fact that they bring reason to places lacking it and are critics from the inside the culture of Islam. If we really cherish our freedoms we will see that refugees utilizing those freedoms will be protected for the time they are within our borders. She is actively combating militant Islam, fundamentalist, woman hating islam. This is as important a mission as, the fight against global warming.

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44. Comment #128136 by HughCaldwell on February 16, 2008 at 9:46 am

"You can assume neither from my comments. 47. Comment #128133 by Ian Bamlett on February 16, 2008 at 9:30 am "

Ok. Did you contribute? Did you do anything?

Other Comments by HughCaldwell

45. Comment #128138 by HughCaldwell on February 16, 2008 at 9:53 am

"She is actively combating militant Islam, fundamentalist, woman hating islam.48. Comment #128135 by MaxD on February 16, 2008 at 9:39 am "

United States policy is in favour of supporting regimes, such as Saudi Arabia and Pakistan, our cherished allies in the War on Terror, where Islamic fundamentalism flourishes. Think how upset King Abdullah would be if the US expressed the intention of seeing the views of Ayaan Hirsi Ali implemented in the Kingdom.

Other Comments by HughCaldwell

46. Comment #128142 by Paine on February 16, 2008 at 10:28 am

Hugh Caldwell

It's preposterous to expect the American government to act against its nature.

Well, they come across as hollow and insincere. Blathering endlessly about 'Islamofascism' and 'war on terror', here is the perfect opportunity to back it up with some concrete action.
It will take a minuscule fraction of the 'war on terror' budget to protect Ayaan, and it will be to the US' eternal credit if they are willing to take a stand on principle.
For a govt that preaches endlessly about universal freedom and human rights they should show some spine on this issue. Especially since the cost and effort would be negligible.

Other Comments by Paine

47. Comment #128143 by godless_badass on February 16, 2008 at 10:34 am

as someone above asked very approprietly, 'How many people need protection ?' and I say how the frak are we planning to protect them ?
I say, let's bomb these assholes back to nomading with tents and camels, please... yes ? Let's screw them good and then we can deal with the zionists and christofascists as we please without having to look over our shoulders all the time.
I used to be a peacefull, easy guy, - not anymore. If someone thinks The Hitch is bad, then he really wouldn't like me. I'm getting seriosly pissed...

Other Comments by godless_badass

48. Comment #128148 by robotaholic on February 16, 2008 at 10:55 am

i get a scammy feeling about this -i mean why can't she just change her name, get a face lift, and move, or write books under a different name, or why can't she just not be so high profile and mabye she wouldn't be threatened-

true- she shouldn't have to change to avoid being killed - that's not fair to her - but life is the way life is-

"I don't want to die, I want to live and I love life,

then quit making yourself so vulnerable

Other Comments by robotaholic

49. Comment #128154 by Nails on February 16, 2008 at 11:22 am

robotaholic, all those who speak out against oppression in the world make themselves targets for extremists.
Ayaan's only further crime is to be an apostate, and it is for that crime that she is hated the most.

Anyway, I have submitted a petition to the European Parliament, if successful I will post the details here and I hope that you will all support it and post it to your MEPs.

Other Comments by Nails

50. Comment #128165 by Linda_K on February 16, 2008 at 11:39 am

"That's exactly the kind of nonsense that makes the US look even stupider than it is. If India can afford to protect Taslima, Im sure the US can afford to protect Ayaan."

Sometimes I really hate where I live. But, if I had the money, I would be living somewhere else. I know the media likes to portray american citizens who make $500k a year in their houses with the white picket finces in the nice suburbs and 2.3 kids.

The truth is, I never grew up in that life. I lived in a cabin in the woods. My parents couln't afford to send me to the private school they wanted, so they sent me to public school. Compared to most europeans, I would be considered stupid, but I try my best to educate myself about anything. Right now, I'm trying to learn sign language and to get better at math.

The only job I can work is retail and I'm struggling just to make it. I'm ashamed because I CAN'T give money to Ayaan. My entire paycheck (BTW: $340 dollars every two weeks) goes to rent and gas, I can barely afford food and I use the computer at work to catch up on all my news. A lot of us aren't so rich.

Yeah, I know America is evil, but it's home. Someday, hopefully after college, home can be somewhere else, but until then I will have you know that I didn't vote for Bush and I never wanted any of this. If I could, I would have Ayaan safe in this country, protected from her enemies.

Sometimes, I get really offended when people call me "stupid" and "cheap" just because I'm an American. The truth is, whenever Ameica gets involved in something, everyone says, "Mind your own business." Until the world needs help, and then it's, "Where the hell is America? They should do something about this!" Damned if you do and damned if you don't.

So, thank you to all who have wisely blamed the government and not the whole of America's population. I wish people would stop roping me in with all of this bull shit.

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