Lying for Jesus?Mark Mathis, a producer of the film who attended the screening, said that "of course" he had recognized Dr. Dawkins, but allowed him to attend because "he has handled himself fairly honorably, he is a guest in our country and I had to presume he had flown a long way to see the film."
It would appear that Expelled's producer Mark Mathis was not being truthful when he told me tonight that Crossroads was a 'working title' for the film Expelled. As Wesley Elsberry points out, the domain for Expelled was purchased before most, if not all, of the interviews were conducted -- and yet Richard Dawkins, Eugenie Scott, PZ Myers, and others were told they were being interviewed for a film called Crossroads.
Mr. Mark Mathis, do you want to come here and explain yourself?
8752. Comment #207463 by Quine on July 9, 2008 at 10:25 pm
Stuff like this does not even scratch at proving evolution, and things like crocodiles which haven't budged for supposedly over a hundred million years are not helpful either.
8753. Comment #207467 by Goldy on July 9, 2008 at 10:39 pm
Considering the "mountains of evidence" for evolution
8754. Comment #207560 by Tyler Durden on July 10, 2008 at 2:46 am
Mark Smith: Txpiper, any logical arguments for the existence of God yet?Comment #207455 by txpiper
But personally, I think prophecies, weighed against probabilities, are compelling evidence.So that's a no then.
8755. Comment #207572 by Steve Zara on July 10, 2008 at 2:57 am
I have no idea.
There is no reasonable answer, just like you don't have one for how all the matter and energy in the universe was supposedly compacted to the size of a nucleus of an atom before the big bang.
Your saying that if it can last a million, then 68 million is not a problem. I shouldn't have to point out that the further out you go, the more unrealistic it gets, and vice-versa. In other words, lasting thousands of years is plausible and lasting millions of years is not.
I am hardly alone in my opinion. There are lots of bright folks who do not accept the establishment paradigm.
And there are committed evolutionists whose assessment is much more candid than yours, like this guy in a recent article I posted the link to not long ago:
8756. Comment #207589 by irate_atheist on July 10, 2008 at 3:21 am
8757. Comment #207603 by Tyler Durden on July 10, 2008 at 3:47 am
8758. Comment #207789 by Kardashovel on July 10, 2008 at 7:18 am
I, for one, am very impressed by your stamina, txpiper. You show the patience of a person with great faith, and I commend you for it.8759. Comment #207799 by Tyler Durden on July 10, 2008 at 7:27 am
8760. Comment #207802 by Kardashovel on July 10, 2008 at 7:29 am
Are you saying Jesus was just an average guy, Tyler?8761. Comment #207807 by alan baylis on July 10, 2008 at 7:33 am
8802. Comment #207455 by txpiperThat doesn't answer the question, and you know it. I would like an answer please. How does God actually make the creatures?
I have no idea. You guys love to ask this question as if someone is going to tell you He uses a particle accelerator the size of a galaxy. There is no reasonable answer,
8762. Comment #207814 by Kardashovel on July 10, 2008 at 7:38 am
I mean no offense, but your continued stalwart presence here, even after positing that ridiculous ice shield theory, made me think of this inspirational photograph: http://tinyurl.com/67ehmw
8763. Comment #207815 by Tyler Durden on July 10, 2008 at 7:38 am
8764. Comment #207816 by hungarianelephant on July 10, 2008 at 7:39 am
8765. Comment #207837 by Kardashovel on July 10, 2008 at 8:02 am
every civilsation has some "Messiah" complex/myth
8766. Comment #207844 by epeeist on July 10, 2008 at 8:07 am
If he existed, Jesus was a short, ugly guyand a bit smelly too.
8767. Comment #207847 by Kardashovel on July 10, 2008 at 8:09 am
Not as smelly as the dude in the photo.8768. Comment #207848 by epeeist on July 10, 2008 at 8:13 am
There are a set of loony Muslims on the "Venomous Snakes, Slippery Eels and Harun Yahya" thread, but I am afraid you might be a bit late to try them out.
Not as smelly as the dude in the photo. I'm determined to kill this thread.
8769. Comment #207851 by Tyler Durden on July 10, 2008 at 8:15 am
And while he did show his anger at the tables of the money changers in the TempleAnd a fig tree (Mark 11:12-14), allegedly. Strange behaviour for a "messiah" don't you think?
The formation of the world's most popular religion?Evidence please? Let's not forget the majority of people in those times were ignorant, with no education, and would believe anything you told them, if done with enough authority.
8770. Comment #207859 by hungarianelephant on July 10, 2008 at 8:25 am
And the Jews, like many others, thought that their Messiah would be a fierce liberator and a strong conservative leader.
It's interesting that, on the contrary, Jesus was extremely progressive. And while he did show his anger at the tables of the money changers in the Temple, he was remarkably restrained in the face of persecution and torturous public execution.
I'm going to assume that you've watched the Life of Brian... great movie. Suppose that Jesus' crucifixion, like Brian's, was exploited by men like Reg... do you suppose that the followers would risk death and persecution at the hands of their countrymen and the Romans, to follow Reg's teachings? The Life of Brian ended amusingly, with a flippant musical ditty. But what would have happened next had they continued the script? The formation of the world's most popular religion?
8771. Comment #207862 by Kardashovel on July 10, 2008 at 8:26 am
Durden:8772. Comment #207870 by Kardashovel on July 10, 2008 at 8:34 am
Gandhi found the same popularity nineteen centuries later when he engaged on a remarkably similar project.
And Christianity's eventual move to dominance was born out of Constantine's desperate attempts to keep the Empire together. Then, as now, it was primarily a political project.
8773. Comment #207877 by Tyler Durden on July 10, 2008 at 8:45 am
8774. Comment #207880 by irate_atheist on July 10, 2008 at 8:48 am
8775. Comment #207884 by Kardashovel on July 10, 2008 at 8:54 am
8827. Comment #207880 by irate_atheist8776. Comment #207886 by Elli on July 10, 2008 at 8:58 am
8777. Comment #207887 by Tyler Durden on July 10, 2008 at 8:58 am
I worry that if you should be persuaded that the earth is billions of years old, you will lose your faith because you put it in a book instead of God Himself.This line confused me slightly, apologies. (What's wrong with books?)
8778. Comment #207889 by Tyler Durden on July 10, 2008 at 9:01 am
8779. Comment #207891 by irate_atheist on July 10, 2008 at 9:05 am
8780. Comment #207892 by Gregg Townsend on July 10, 2008 at 9:05 am
8781. Comment #207893 by Kardashovel on July 10, 2008 at 9:06 am
Elli, I cannot restrain myself from commenting that you have a most captivating avatar.8782. Comment #207894 by hungarianelephant on July 10, 2008 at 9:07 am
In any case, it is worth noting that Constantine chose the path of least resistance, and in spite of crucifixions, immolations, and lion feedings, Christianity spread through peaceful fellowship and the charismatic message that Jesus brought to the world. He showed the way, and as usual, we mortals lost the trail while bickering over who gets to wear the pointy hat.
8783. Comment #207896 by Kardashovel on July 10, 2008 at 9:10 am
8832. Comment #207891 by irate_atheist8784. Comment #207897 by irate_atheist on July 10, 2008 at 9:11 am
...I cannot restrain myself...That much is obvious for all to see.
8785. Comment #207899 by irate_atheist on July 10, 2008 at 9:15 am
8786. Comment #207900 by Gregg Townsend on July 10, 2008 at 9:16 am
homophobic and bothered (like your friend, Gregg)?
8787. Comment #207901 by decius on July 10, 2008 at 9:20 am
Btw, the lion feedings are a myth. There's not a shred of evidence that they ever happened.
8788. Comment #207904 by hungarianelephant on July 10, 2008 at 9:26 am
Then, if I may publicly commend my namesake myself - emperor Decius- launched a full scale persecution, for he predicted that christianity would have precipitated civilisation into chaos and barbarism.
8789. Comment #207905 by decius on July 10, 2008 at 9:30 am
8790. Comment #207906 by Kardashovel on July 10, 2008 at 9:35 am
No worries, Gregg.Suppose we go along with this. How is this different to an argument about the "purest" form of Marxism? How does the effectiveness of the spread of Christianity tell you anything about the truth or otherwise of its content?
argumentum ad populum
and
argumentum ad ignorantum
8791. Comment #207909 by Kardashovel on July 10, 2008 at 9:39 am
True, although Nero had a brilliant idea, which unfortunately didn't catch up with later rulers. In at least an episode he used christians as combustible for public illumination.
8792. Comment #207914 by Kardashovel on July 10, 2008 at 9:44 am
As for the lions, could you spell it out for me a little?8793. Comment #207923 by Sciros on July 10, 2008 at 10:01 am
I am merely noting that the popularity among early Christians, in the face of drastic persecution and threat of death, proves that Jesus' words and approach were remarkably inspiring, and strongly indicates that He existed, whether as God or man.
If it's just a feel-good story, then why risk life and limb?Believing something is true doesn't make it true, no matter how hard one believes it. Also, you can ask this same question of MANY religions; ask it of one you don't "agree with" and you'll hopefully see it does not lend credence to any.
If it was to save their souls in the next life, why choose Christianity instead of Mythraism, for example? After all, that religion encouraged you to kick ass and avoid being slaughtered by your adversaries.Someone with a better historical background than me can tear this to shreds. But in any case, Christianity survived because Rome LET it survive. If, indeed, it never came to be and in its place a more aggressive, less submissive religion arose, Rome would have stamped it out for good and that'd have been that.
8794. Comment #207925 by bugaboo on July 10, 2008 at 10:05 am
8843. Comment #207906 by Kardashovel8795. Comment #207931 by hungarianelephant on July 10, 2008 at 10:13 am
The answer must be that these early Christians believed with all of their heart. ANd it wasn't because it was the state religion or because daddy said so. And it wasn't because Jesus promised to kick Cesar's butt. What does that prove? I don't know. To me it demonstrates the unique power of the Christian message among all other religions, monotheistic or otherwise.
Given that I believe in God for other reasons, it gives me strong affection for the Christian message. That's all.
8796. Comment #207979 by The Reverend Dark on July 10, 2008 at 11:36 am
I am merely noting that the popularity among early Christians, in the face of drastic persecution and threat of death, proves that Jesus' words and approach were remarkably inspiring, and strongly indicates that He existed, whether as God or man.
8797. Comment #207980 by Mark Smith on July 10, 2008 at 11:36 am
txpiperThis verse does not qualify. Nature is not being described in it. Super-nature is.
personally, I think prophecies, weighed against probabilities, are compelling evidence
8798. Comment #207982 by Elli on July 10, 2008 at 11:46 am
8799. Comment #208188 by Goldy on July 10, 2008 at 5:24 pm
8800. Comment #208274 by Goldy on July 10, 2008 at 7:34 pm
8751. Comment #207458 by 8teist on July 9, 2008 at 9:36 pm
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