Thursday, July 10, 2008 | Reason : In the News | print version

PLEASE WRITE IN SUPPORT OF PZ MYERS

by Richard Dawkins, PZ Myers, Pharyngula

PLEASE WRITE IN SUPPORT OF PZ MYERS.
By Richard Dawkins

Readers of yesterday's thread "It's a Goddamned Cracker" will be aware of somebody called Bill Donohue, whose grasp of reality is so poor that he can't tell the difference between a wafer and Jesus. The shrieking hysteria of Donohue and other Roman Catholics over the temporary removal of a communion wafer from a church service epitomises all that is ridiculous in the religious mind.

Today's development is that Donohue is now inciting a witch-hunt against PZ, and is trying to whip up Roman Catholics to write to the President of the University of Minnesota, urging him to sack PZ. We need a massive counter flood of letters in support of PZ Myers. Please write, bearing in mind PZ's two requests:-

1. Please use your own name, not a pseudonym
2. Please take care to write in a good, literate, adult style, in order to increase the contrast between the letters of support and the incoherent, juvenile flaming that will doubtless characterise the letters from the Catholics.

For details of the address to write to, see Pharyngula, here (or PZ's post below)
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2008/07/fight_back_against_bill_donohu.php

Please rally round and show support for PZ, in the face of this hysterical latter-day Grand Inquisitor.

Thank you

Richard

(PZ's post follows)

Reposted from:
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2008/07/fight_back_against_bill_donohu.php

So far today, I have received 39 pieces of personal hate mail of varying degrees of literacy, all because I was rude to a cracker. Four of them have included death threats, a personal one day record. Thirty-four of them have demanded that I be fired. Twenty-five of them have told me to desecrate a copy of the Koran, instead, or in some similar way offend Muslims, because — in a multiplicity of ironic cluelessness — apparently only some religious icons must be protected, and I would only offend Catholics because they are all so nice that none of them would wish me harm. I even have one email that says I should be fired, that the author would like to kill me, and that I only criticize because Catholics are so gentle and kind.

Oh, and of course, the university president's office has also received lots of mail demanding my immediate ouster (keep in mind, though�Catholics are no threat to anyone at all.) I don't know how much, but since Donohue published the president's email address and not mine, I imagine it's much greater than what I've seen. Those lovely Dark Age fanatics at the Catholic League have started a write-in campaign to start up an inquisition.

So no poll-crashing today. Instead, I would appreciate it if you would write a short note to President Robert Bruininks in support (he's going to hate me for this). I have to ask for a few constraints, though: only do so if you are willing to sign a real name to it — most of the complaint mail I'm getting uses fake names, making it much less persuasive — and that, unlike the religious screeds I'm seeing, you take the time to proofread and send him something that at least looks like a high school graduate wrote it, which will put you way above the level of the hate mail. Be polite and rational, too!

If you really want to impress, send him regular mail at this address:

President Robert H. Bruininks
202 Morrill Hall
100 Church Street S.E.
University of Minnesota
Minneapolis, MN 55455

Bill Donohue has a loud, braying voice, and he's already trying to stir up a witch hunt. We need a counter-campaign from the secular community.

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151. Comment #208317 by robotaholic on July 10, 2008 at 8:34 pm

Hey, I have a question:

Do you think Donahue is acting like this because he HAS TOO because his religion actually teaches this stuff and consequently he's sort of being an example of sorts ...sort of showing how 'faithful' he is or how much he 'believes'???- I don't think anyone could ever act that childish otherwise...

Other Comments by robotaholic

152. Comment #208318 by RamziD on July 10, 2008 at 8:35 pm

I was going to send e-mail, but that link is not opening up correctly on my computer. I guess I'll just send a regular letter... probably better anyways.

Stella, I'm a Texan and graduate of UT-Austin as well.

Edit:
Written. I'll send tomorrow.

President Bruininks,

I am writing you to express my support for Professor P.Z. Myers of University of Minnesota-Morris. Dr. Myers is being unfairly attacked by Catholic leaders for viewpoints he has expressed on his well-known and respected science blog, Pharyngula.

Dr. Myers is an advocate of free speech, science education, and critical thinking. Through his blog, he brings forth important issues that should be debated in an open society. I believe that the rhetoric coming from people like Bill Donohue of the Catholic League is over the line. They are trying to attack and destroy the career of a man who has contributed much to science and society.

Please protect Dr. Myers' right to free speech and do not succumb to the people who are negating his inalienable rights and asking for his termination. I have confidence that you will do the best thing for the University of Minnesota system and keep Dr. Myers at his current position.

Sincerely,

Dr. Ramzi Dakour
Phoenix, AZ

Other Comments by RamziD

153. Comment #208320 by Ed-words on July 10, 2008 at 8:38 pm

Dearest Styrer - -

Nobody is above criticism. Even the best

us go overboard sometimes.

(Who made you the Sergeant-at-Arms?)

Other Comments by Ed-words

154. Comment #208323 by Laurie Fraser on July 10, 2008 at 8:40 pm

Dear President Bruininks,

I am writing in support of your colleague, Associate Prof. Myers. Dr Myers' work in the public promotion of science and critical thinking has been inspirational for thousands of people. That certain members of religious organisations criticize Dr Myers is understandable and their right. That they demand retribution in the form of his dismissal is ignorant, malicious and ridiculous.

Yours faithfully,
Laurie Fraser
Sydney,
Australia

Other Comments by Laurie Fraser

155. Comment #208324 by PalMD on July 10, 2008 at 8:42 pm

Hmm, i feel like this is the third time I've had t re-register. ANyway, this is what i wrote.

Dear President Bruininks,

I'm sure you are receiving a great deal of communication, but I do feel this issue is important.

During the current imbroglio regarding PZ Myers and communion wafers, a few issues have come up.

The first is a moral freedom of speech (as opposed to a legal one). Dr. Myers, I'm sure you would agree, has the right to say anything he wishes. Given his writings did not bear the imprimatur (sorry for the pun) of the University, this controversy should in no way affect his employment.

Second is the issue of academic freedom. Academics occupy a rather special position in that they must be allowed to play with ideas, the currency of their trade. If this exchange and experimentation is impeded, intellectual thought will also be impeded.

Thank you for taking the time to read.

Sincerely,

Peter A. Lipson, M.D.

Other Comments by PalMD

156. Comment #208326 by Magrathean Economist on July 10, 2008 at 8:44 pm

Email sent. It's outrageous that those clowns in the Catholic League are trying to silence PZ.

Other Comments by Magrathean Economist

157. Comment #208329 by Styrer- on July 10, 2008 at 8:49 pm

Comment #208310 by Nietzschesbulldog on July 10, 2008 at 8:28 pm

It occurred to me (As I compose my email to President Robert Bruininks) that there must be more that we can do to in support of PZ. At the most I would like to propose a counter campaign, an email barrage sent to the Catholic League from supporters of PZ. Unfortunately, they don't seem to have an email address on their web site . . . they do have a fax number though: Fax: (212) 371-3394

It seems unfair that the forum for this skirmish should be fought in the inbox of a university president and not in the inbox of the Catholic League. We should convince them of our support for PZ

any way,

kick ass, PZ!!!

Yes.

Once again, the defensive position is necessarily taken up by those who - let's be clear about this - hold to ideas which increase the sum of human knowledge AGAINST the prosecutorial dicks who are holding back the whole of fucking humanity's development.

Bringing the whole theistically-created shitwad to the very door of those who shat it in the first place is desirable.

How, sir, do you propose we do this? Any specifics?

Don't forget you have a bunch of people even on this site who will not tolerate 'ill manners' to theists, no matter how disgustingly ill-mannered those theists' own principles and actions are towards the rest of us.

Best,
Styrer

Other Comments by Styrer-

158. Comment #208331 by Mango on July 10, 2008 at 8:49 pm

I'm not sure that this isn't just a tempest in a teapot, but I sent my letter if for no other reason than that a show of support now might help prevent some future hardship for PZ.

Other Comments by Mango

159. Comment #208332 by Nietzschesbulldog on July 10, 2008 at 8:51 pm

Ask and ye shall receive!!!!!

this is the email for the Catholic League for all who are interested . . . and if this has not been posted before

cl@catholicleague.org

abuse it!

Other Comments by Nietzschesbulldog

160. Comment #208337 by Layla Nasreddin on July 10, 2008 at 9:00 pm

I am unpleasantly reminded of the pogroms and riots that accompanied accusations of "host desecration" during the Middle Ages. It still blows my mind -- real, living, breathing people (often Jews) were savagely killed over supposed offenses to a piece of bread! (Another one for the "Evil of Religion" files...)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Host_desecration

This whole affair does have more than a whiff of the medieval about it, doesn't it?

Edit: Duh, email sent, using real name (not fake Islamic one...)

Other Comments by Layla Nasreddin

161. Comment #208338 by Broshiesq on July 10, 2008 at 9:01 pm

Dear President Bruininks:

I pray that, in spite of the deluge of notes under which you surely must be suffering regarding the whole PZ affair, you may find a moment to consider the case of US v. Fishbine, in which a man subjected to potential incineration while wearing another man's suit was entitled to $300 worth of airline tickets. An obscure case, I know, and quite possibly not altogether spot on, however, given the immediate backlash PZ's recent blog has inspired among the religiously insane (pardon the redundancy), I do think it rather important to bear in mind that we remain a nation governed by the rule of law, and as such, must strive to remain resilient when encountering those who would have our lives dictated by their faith. If a well respected academician can find his job in jeopardy due to his suggestion of cracker battery, I daresay, I shudder at what fate awaits me after so often pissing in the holy water.

Yours truly,
Broshiesq
Chicago

Other Comments by Broshiesq

162. Comment #208341 by Brian English on July 10, 2008 at 9:05 pm

Layla, the whole dogma of transubstantiation is a product of medieval thought. It's based on old Aristotelean ideas of substance, reworked for the medieval churche's satisfaction. It shouldn't surprise therefore that is has more than a wiff of the black death.....

Other Comments by Brian English

163. Comment #208342 by hopeful on July 10, 2008 at 9:05 pm

Dear Sir,

Nothing I have seen recently more profoundly illustrates the absurdity of religion than this statement:

"It is hard to think of anything more vile than to intentionally desecrate the Body of Christ."

and nothing makes me more fearful for the future of human civilisation. The fact that that they were actually referring to a cracker makes it all the more absurd, and all the more scary.

It is also hard to imagine an attitude that is more of an insult towards those in the real world that suffer real harm; disease, starvation, war, ethnic cleansing, mutilations, torture, child molestation etc etc.

One aspect of the cracker incident that PZ Myers has commented on, and is no doubt particularly passionate about, is the fact that the University concerned, rather than supporting the student, appears to be passively condoning the expressions of outrage by the religious community, some of which (unlike the cracker removal) are actually threats to cause real and serious harm to the student.

Please support PZ Myers by not giving in to irrational religious demands.

Other Comments by hopeful

164. Comment #208344 by squinky on July 10, 2008 at 9:08 pm

President Bruininks,

In spite of the no doubt numerous letters that you've received from 'outraged' Catholics, I strongly urge you to restrain your disciplinary hand towards PZ Myers. While his essay on the communion story is a satirical jab at the prehistoric practice of communion (which after all relies upon transubstantiation and I doubt if he was to mock a psychic's abilities in a blog that we would need to correspond in this manner), it warrants no disciplinary intervention by you or any other officer of the school because:

1) No person was harmed by the boy's actions or PZ's essay.
2) PZ has a 1st amendment right to express his opinion
3) PZ was in no way connected to the communion heist and thus had nothing to do with it except defending a student
4) PZ can educate any student of any religious stripe without bias
5) He's right to defend a student against personal assault from a nun, priest, imam or whoever and against religious zealots who threaten his life over a communion wafer
6) Mass-produced crackers are not Bibles, they are not a stained glass window or a religious painting. They have no value and they have no rights. The "desecration" of a baked good is not a crime, not a sin, not even in bad taste. Would you punish a faculty member for attending a protest and burning an American flag? Then censure half of your faculty born in the 1950s (where were you in 1968?). His point, while not politically correct, is consciousness-raising and important since it underscores why people should have good reasons for their beliefs.

In the spirit of academic debate, multiculturalism, and American freedom, let PZ defend himself publicly. But do nothing. Punishment of someone for a perceived offense is the first step towards oppression and is antithetical to the academic pursuit and a violation of PZ's civil rights (there are no religious rights nor the right not to be offended).

Other Comments by squinky

165. Comment #208345 by Radesq on July 10, 2008 at 9:09 pm

One more for PZ

Dear President Bruininks:

I am not a current student nor an alumnus Golden Gopher. However, I am a person who respects science and freedom of speech. I also believe as did Thomas Jefferson (the founder of another great state University as you know) in the separation of Church and State. I urge you and your institution to be steadfast in your support of academic freedom where Professor Myers is concerned. If you are not familiar with the bully boy tactics of persons like Bill Donohue of the Catholic League, you might at first find them a bit intimidating. Please be assured that his outrage is entirely manufactured and that he merely makes his living whipping up enough discontent to get his disagreeable countenance on television. This tempest in a celestial teapot too shall pass. Please stand by your man, who in this case by all outwardly appearances is an excellent scientist, teacher, and spokesperson for the intellectual freedom and rigor provided to your student population.

Sincerely,

Name, City and State submitted

Other Comments by Radesq

166. Comment #208347 by 35bluejacket on July 10, 2008 at 9:17 pm

RamsiD
I had to add a comma in his email addy.

Other Comments by 35bluejacket

167. Comment #208348 by Quine on July 10, 2008 at 9:17 pm

Hi Brian,

Transubstantiation is one of the reasons I classify Catholicism in the voodoo religion category.

Other Comments by Quine

168. Comment #208353 by Nietzschesbulldog on July 10, 2008 at 9:26 pm

I have emailed the Pres and the Catholic League!

Rise up P.Z.! Rise up brothers and sisters!

Other Comments by Nietzschesbulldog

169. Comment #208354 by Brian English on July 10, 2008 at 9:28 pm

Quine, I think a lot of Protestant churches have made similar claims too. :)

Other Comments by Brian English

170. Comment #208360 by Kinzuakid on July 10, 2008 at 9:40 pm

Simple, but I think every little bit helps...

"Dear President Bruininks,

Regarding the recent kerfuffle related to an entry posted by Dr. Myers on his blog "Pharyngula"-

I must raise my voice in support of Dr. Myers. While I am certain his blog has raised challenging questions of late for the university, it bothers me to think a group would seek to silence Dr. Myers for what amounts to simple ridicule. His contributions to the spread of critical thought and science in particular are significant. This is just one more example of irrationality being held up for scrutiny. Dr. Myers' efforts reflect positively on The University of Minnesota and I urge you to rebuff those who would seek to intimidate either the university or Dr. Myers."

Other Comments by Kinzuakid

171. Comment #208367 by Janus on July 10, 2008 at 9:49 pm

You know, if the UMM president is a moderate Christian, and it's likely that he is, half the letters that were sent are going to be counter-productive.

Other Comments by Janus

172. Comment #208369 by dansam on July 10, 2008 at 9:55 pm

My email:

************
President Bruininks,

I am writing to you today in support of Dr. PZ Meyers who is being attacked by the "catholic league" for his response to the ridiculous situation of a student being disciplined and subject to death threats for the "crime" of absconding with the "Eucharist" cracker from a catholic mass in order to study it.

The situation is beyond silly and I am urging you to ignore any emails from the "catholic league" and allow Dr. Meyers to continue in his work as a researcher as well as in his efforts to shine the light of rationality into the darkness of superstition and fundamentalism.

Other Comments by dansam

173. Comment #208371 by NormanDoering on July 10, 2008 at 10:08 pm

Janus wrote:

You know, if the UMM president is a moderate Christian, and it's likely that he is, half the letters that were sent are going to be counter-productive.

Well, let's just hope the UMM president never reads my blog:
http://normdoering.blogspot.com/2008/07/death-to-cracker-infidels.html

Other Comments by NormanDoering

174. Comment #208372 by MelM on July 10, 2008 at 10:11 pm

e-mail sent:

Subject: PZ Myers And The Kidnapped Cracker

President Bruininks,

I'm writing to urge you to support PZ Myers in the matter of the communion wafer. PZ is an internationally recognized and much needed opponent of creationism; in the broadest sense, he's supporting science in an environment that's becoming way too religious. Your University and all institutions of science benefit from his passionate and forthright intellectual activism.

Frankly, if professors start being fired because they ridicule religious superstition, the U.S. and indeed the whole of Western scientific culture are in deep trouble. This is very serious.

Thank you for your attention.

Other Comments by MelM

175. Comment #208373 by Styrer- on July 10, 2008 at 10:28 pm

Not to impugn Richard's memory, but certainly to allow for the huge number of posts which may have at least distracted his attention, as they should anyone's, I repeat, just in case:

Could Richard please show us his own letter of endorsement of PZ?

I would like to see the differences of approach between an Oxford Professor and the rest of us, if any.

Would be helpful for future encounters, perhaps.

Many thanks.

Best,
Styrer

Other Comments by Styrer-

176. Comment #208374 by RigoJancsi on July 10, 2008 at 10:32 pm

I didn't send an email to the president. But reading my favourite German news portal SPIEGEL ONLINE which normally features stories like this, I thought it might be a good idea to tell them about the hostaged cracker, maybe they will publish it. I guess no university wants to get publicity like this, so they will be careful about their next steps, I hope.

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177. Comment #208378 by MelM on July 10, 2008 at 10:52 pm

To have opened up a fight with the Catholic League and Catholics is, in my view, a positive development. In particular, this case focuses attention on the radical difference between the scientific view of the world--where things are what they are and nothing more--and a view that ignores this basic fact and dives into fantasies. Let no one claim that Catholicism and science are compatable. If some were unaware of the batshit crazy views of the Catholics, one of the worst has gotten the press it deserves. As Richard wrote above:

The shrieking hysteria of Donohue and other Roman Catholics over the temporary removal of a communion wafer from a church service epitomises all that is ridiculous in the religious mind.

Indeed, the psychopathology of religion is quite in evidence. Oh, such are the delusions of faith!

Should PZ end up being fired, it would be a bigger victory for religious fanaticism than has so far been accomplished by creationism.

Other Comments by MelM

178. Comment #208380 by Steve Zara on July 10, 2008 at 10:57 pm

E-mail sent.

Other Comments by Steve Zara

179. Comment #208381 by Happy_Mutant on July 10, 2008 at 10:59 pm

Done! Now, back to eating my Big Cheesus Crackers.

Other Comments by Happy_Mutant

180. Comment #208394 by TroyMason on July 10, 2008 at 11:09 pm

My 2 cents worth

Dear Sir,

Please restore my faith in America and her secular constitution by disregarding the no doubt fraught and irrational correspondence you are receiving from members and supporters of the 'Catholic League' in regard to PZ Myers article 'It's a Frackin Cracker'.

As a person in a position of responsibility at a such a prestigious centre of learning, it would be disappointing to hear that you had set aside principals of free speech and the ability to call a spade a spade, for the fear of offending people who's inexcusable ignorance (in this day and age) has led them to take literally, bronze age legends and dogma created by men yet attributed to gods.

Of all the things I've heard and seen that have led to a proverbial modern witch hunt, this is perhaps the most absurd. I'm sure even most reasonable Catholics would find the idea of transubstantiation frankly embarrassing to defend, let alone this cretinous and half witted indignation, resulting in a chorus of the unenlightened screaming for PZ Myers head.

I trust you will take the reasonable and rational path.

Troy Mason
(Australia)

Other Comments by TroyMason

181. Comment #208396 by Dr Doctor on July 10, 2008 at 11:15 pm

Very strange that some who were commenting on the previous thread showing irrational reverence for Catholics, their customs and their crackers (and indeed, even making the same facile point that was made to Prof. Myers) are now rushing to PZ's rescue.

I can't help thinking that glory is undermining poorly held principles in some cases ;-)

Other Comments by Dr Doctor

182. Comment #208397 by Styrer- on July 10, 2008 at 11:20 pm

Comment #208396 by Dr Doctor on July 10, 2008 at 11:15 pm

While I don't think you've expressed yourself correctly, I share your sentiment exactly.

Well and precisely intended.

Best,
Styrer

Other Comments by Styrer-

183. Comment #208399 by Dr Doctor on July 10, 2008 at 11:22 pm

Oh, I could have cut to the quick but it is my atheistic sense of charity that stops me. That and my appalling typo habit.

Other Comments by Dr Doctor

184. Comment #208402 by Steve Zara on July 10, 2008 at 11:26 pm

Comment #208396 by Dr Doctor

Very strange that some who were commenting on the previous thread showing irrational reverence for Catholics, their customs and their crackers (and indeed, even making the same facile point that was made to Prof. Myers) and now rushing to PZ's rescue.

How is it strange?

I will admit I am not always comfortable with some things that PZ Myers says, but I will strongly defend his right to say them. Myers not only posts with great intelligence and wit, he is also a superb educator. It would be a very bad day for rationalism if Myers was to suffer in his career because of this post.

I think there is consistency in defending the rights of some weird people not to have their holy bread messed about with and defending the right of Myers to post on Pharyngula while being at the University of Minnesota. It is about allowing people to be left alone in a civilized society.

Other Comments by Steve Zara

185. Comment #208403 by Styrer- on July 10, 2008 at 11:27 pm

Comment #208399 by Dr Doctor on July 10, 2008 at 11:22 pm

Typos, doc, are unfortunately routine here.

But please never permit your aesthetic sense of charity to hold you back from what you think you MUST say.

In such bold and solitary manner will you risk rising above those whom you wish to take to task.

Best,
Styrer

Other Comments by Styrer-

186. Comment #208405 by Dr Doctor on July 10, 2008 at 11:32 pm

"How is it strange?"

It isn't strange, it is typical of human behaviour. A goodly proportion of people are natural hypocrites.

"I think there is consistency in defending the rights of some weird people not to have their holy bread messed about with and defending the right of Myers to post on Pharyngula while being at the University of Minnesota. It is about allowing people to be left alone in a civilized society."

Not wanting to drag the argument onto here but firstly I displayed a general garment that you seem to think is cut to fit.

(edited out the entering into the argument yet again)

Other Comments by Dr Doctor

187. Comment #208407 by sesshomaru_haku on July 10, 2008 at 11:38 pm

My first post here...been lurking for a while but I finally got motivated enough to register^^

The email I sent:

Dear President Robert H. Bruininks

I have read about the threats made to one of the professors of the University of Minnesota, Professor PZ Myers, after he mocked Catholics for raising an utterly ridiculous uproar over a cracker. I must say that I am in full support of his actions and I hope that the University will take the necessary actions to protect him from harm. In this day and age when religious idiocity continues, sadly, to prevail, Professor Myers is an eloquent and inspirational voice of reason who deserves our fullest support.

Thank you.

Su Gi Chandran
Singapore

Other Comments by sesshomaru_haku

188. Comment #208408 by Steve Zara on July 10, 2008 at 11:39 pm

Comment #208405 by Dr Doctor

You seem to have a strange idea of what is hypocritical.

I don't like to see people bullied. The fellow messing about with the wafer was being unecessarily rude and insulting in my view. And now, PZ is being attacked.

I dislike simplistic views, such as that when there is a disagreement like this only one side must be right, and one side wrong.

What matters is allowing people to get on in a peaceful and civilized way. To me that means allowing people to mess about with bread without being insulted the way Cook did, and also it means allowing the awesome Myers to continue to post unharassed.

Not wanting to drag the argument onto here but firstly I displayed a general garment that you seem to think is cut to fit.

Indeed. I saved you the bother of having to tailor the garment.

Other Comments by Steve Zara

189. Comment #208412 by Styrer- on July 10, 2008 at 11:43 pm

Comment #208402 by Steve Zara on July 10, 2008 at 11:26 pm

If I may, Steve, jump in here, at the risk that you will call 'stalker' again on me.

Here, on this thread, you posed, as a blogger relying on international support for your own blog's existence as does PZ, the incredible question to Richard Dawkins 'Would contributions from those of us who aren't in the USA help?'

I cannot believe that you really needed to ask such a question.

On the 'Goddamned Cracker' thread, you were one of the first to express anxiety about the way we all were or were not showing courteous, civilized behaviour towards those very fucking Catholic Cult members who have, because of a fucking biscuit, tried to rip a young man's life to fucking pieces.

Can you begin to understand why, if you have any proper respect for my own opinion over that of a religious fruitcake's, I think that your stance simultaneously weakens a critical response to this disgusting affair and strengthens my notion that your weak-willed liberal approach - shared by all too many here - simply will not do? That you are thereby granting far too much by way of any respect to superstitious supernaturalists who should not even earn from you the right to ask you the fucking time of day?

Best,
Styrer

Other Comments by Styrer-

190. Comment #208413 by Stephan on July 10, 2008 at 11:44 pm

Alright, email sent (from Germany).
This is just unbelievable. A cracker turns into the physical body of a person that has been dead for 2000 years... shouldn't that flesh and blood taste kind of funny? At least I expect a cracker to taste differently from 2000-year-old, rotten meat... anyway, this is just too much (as many other things).

Other Comments by Stephan

191. Comment #208414 by Dr Doctor on July 10, 2008 at 11:45 pm

"You seem to have a strange idea of what is hypocritical."

No, I don't.

"I dislike simplistic views, such as that when there is a disagreement like this only one side must be right, and one side wrong."

Yes, indeed. There we can agree.

"Indeed. I saved you the bother of having to tailor the garment."

I think you just slipped it on without nary a fuss. All the pins are still sitting in the little fabric hedgehog cushion, waiting.

Other Comments by Dr Doctor

192. Comment #208421 by Steve Zara on July 10, 2008 at 11:55 pm

I cannot believe that you really needed to ask such a question.

I have worked and lectured at a university. It is possible that correspondence from outside the area served by the university would be ignored. It may even seem like interference.

On the 'Goddamned Cracker' thread, you were one of the first to express anxiety about the way we all were or were not showing courteous, civilized behaviour towards those very fucking Catholic Cult members who have, because of a fucking biscuit, tried to rip a young man's life to fucking pieces.

No. All I said was that what Cook did was rude. I in no way made any excuses for the apalling over-reactions.

I believe in appropriate freedoms. Those freedoms should be for everyone, not just the people we like and agree with.

Other Comments by Steve Zara

193. Comment #208422 by CharlieFoxtrot on July 10, 2008 at 11:56 pm

Although I'm not worried about PZ loosing his job - he has tenure - I still sent an email of support stating that I considered him one of the best scientific communicators I have encountered, and a credit to the institution.
I made a point of stating I am in Australia, if only to indicate the global reach of PZ.

Other Comments by CharlieFoxtrot

194. Comment #208426 by Uhtred on July 11, 2008 at 12:00 am

Another email sent from NZ...with pleasure.

Other Comments by Uhtred

195. Comment #208428 by Raiko on July 11, 2008 at 12:06 am

I sent him a letter from my university address, telling him I hope that some Catholics agenda against free speech won't change his view on PZ Myers as a scientist... and some addons how, as a biologist-to-be, I support PZ Myers public work.

Other Comments by Raiko

196. Comment #208434 by Steve Zara on July 11, 2008 at 12:12 am

I happened to see this on the Catholic League website

http://www.catholicleague.org/release.php?id=1459

"The Myers blog can be accessed from the university's website. The university has a policy statement on this issue which says that the 'Contents of all electronic pages must be consistent with University of Minnesota policies, local, state and federal laws.' One of the school's policies, 'Code of Conduct,' says that 'When dealing with others,' faculty et al. must be 'respectful, fair and civil.'

This is quite insane.

Of course the Myers blog can be accessed from the university's website. That is the way the internet works. His blog isn't badged as part of the university.

(I can remember when an institution where I worked in the early 90s attempted a "no links to the outside world on your pages, it will make us look bad" policy)

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197. Comment #208435 by veronad on July 11, 2008 at 12:16 am

Just emailed the university president, too, using my name, address and title (I'm an art professor in the US). Good luck, Professor Myers! -- Joseph

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198. Comment #208438 by Styrer- on July 11, 2008 at 12:21 am

Comment #208421 by Steve Zara on July 10, 2008 at 11:55 pm

I have worked and lectured at a university. It is possible that correspondence from outside the area served by the university would be ignored. It may even seen like interference.

I cannot help thinking that this is disingenuous. The plea to help PZ was posted by Richard Dawkins on his own worldwide-reaching website. 'Please write in support of PZ Myers' is the title of the thread Richard himself seemingly penned - and for which he most certainly wrote a specifically RD.Net piece, urging ALL members to help, with no stated delimitations on country or area. So why your question?

''On the 'Goddamned Cracker' thread, you were one of the first to express anxiety about the way we all were or were not showing courteous, civilized behaviour towards those very fucking Catholic Cult members who have, because of a fucking biscuit, tried to rip a young man's life to fucking pieces.''

'No. All I said was that what Cook did was rude.'

Rude, sir? To whom? Because he had 'agreed on entering to play by their rules'? How far do you really want to press this point, Steve? 'Well, if you join the Ku Klux Klan, it's not nice to walk out in the middle of one of their ceremonies. I'm only concerned with being kind to fellow humans here. It would be rude to walk out with the hat of the fella who didn't turn up'.

What, Steve, is the fucking difference when we are talking about a fucking CULT? Which has devastated chances for life and happiness globally over so many years for so many? Whose anti-human doctrines continue to this day to make the present lives of its adherents an utter mockery of what it means to be alive and to appreciate it?

But no. None of this - even adding in the disgusting notions of original sin, vicarious redemption by human sacrifice, and the life-destroying 'lake of fire' - is enough to stop you harbouring that vicious little meme: 'what Cook did was rude'.

In my never so humble opinion - you, and all of your supporters on this, are utterly and flat-out wrong.

How's that for a bit of non-stalking?

Best,
Styrer

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199. Comment #208442 by Blueboy5 on July 11, 2008 at 12:25 am

Done. :-)

Sir,

I recently read that a group of Catholic fundamentalists led by Bill Donohue have decided that they want Dr. Myers removed from his position at the University of Minnesota and that they intend to bombard you with demands to sack him. I urge you to ignore this group of extremists and their demands and put your full support behind Dr. Myers.

Respectfully,

James

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200. Comment #208444 by JuxtaMonkey on July 11, 2008 at 12:29 am

If this isn't a cry for a secular world, I really don't know what is. Jesus fucking christ...wait, can one have intercourse with themselves? Ummm. I need some Chez Whiz and some back up...I'm going to chapel, steal a god damn cracker and make a run for it. Who's coming with me? The cracker is in the pocket Sargent, over.

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