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Sunday, April 6, 2008 | Reason : In the News | print version Print | Comments |

Document Russell T Davies: Return of the (tea) Time Lord

by Independent UK

Thanks to Rich Eno for the link.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/media/russell-t-davies-return-of-the-tea-time-lord-805255.html

Russell T Davies: Return of the (tea) Time Lord

The man who reinvented 'Doctor Who' for a new generation hints at a real surprise to come in the new series, as the man in the Tardis goes into 'dadshock'.


By Cole MoretonHe is the creator of galaxies, saviour of Saturday night telly and the most influential gay man in Britain, but Russell T Davies can still shriek like a starstruck fanboy. "Richard Dawkins!"

The evolutionary biologist and best-selling author of The God Delusion will appear as a guest star in the new series of Doctor Who, which began last night. "People were falling at his feet," says Davies, creator of the BBC's flagship show. "We've had Kylie Minogue on that set, but it was Dawkins people were worshipping."

As writer and executive producer of Doctor Who, Davies often plays with religious imagery (from a cross-shaped space station to robot angels with halos), but he's a fervent believer in Dawkins. "He has brought atheism proudly out of the closet!"

Russell T Davies is a big man squeezed into a smallish leather armchair, at a private members' club in London. Six feet six inches tall, he waves his big hands around a lot... except when he's pushing the chunky, black-framed glasses back on his broad face, or running a hand through fluffy hair that, frankly, won't take it for very much longer.

Davies was born not too far from the birthplace of Tommy Cooper in South Wales, and seems to have borrowed his chuckle from that melancholy-jolly comic. When we meet he is psyching himself up for the star-studded series premiere, but, despite his physical and professional stature, his enthusiasm for Dawkins makes him go as giggly as the fans who thrust posters of the Tardis at him to sign. (If you are one of them, speed-reading for clues about what will happen in the show, stay with us. Dawkins is an exclusive, and there's a cracker to come.)

"He was as mad and as barking as you'd want him to be," says Davies, putting on a magisterial voice to imitate Dawkins: "'Don't touch me, I've got a cold! Don't shake my hand!' Just brilliant. It's like, 'Woah!'" He didn't have the nerve to ask the professor to slip on a latex mask, it seems: Dawkins will appear as himself. "His wife, [the actress] Lalla Ward, used to be a companion of the Doctor. The gays loved her."

Ah, "the gays". Last year, an Independent on Sunday panel put Davies top of our Pink List of the 100 most influential gay men and lesbian women in Britain. "Isn't it just nonsense?" he says, laughing, although he was clearly flattered. "Did you see the photo? I was like a prancing clown! I think the influential ones are the ones fighting for the laws and so on," he says, then concedes: "I'm not without influence. I'm very out and proud and deliberately visible with it."

Why place him higher than Stephen Fry, Sir Elton John or Peter Mandelson? Partly because of the status he has within his industry, achieved by doing the impossible: reviving the Doctor — turning a dusty old joke into a witty, sexy, slick and scary show — and making Saturday tea-time family telly compulsory again. But also because of what his critics call "the Gay Agenda".

Davies caused a kerfuffle during the first series, back in 2005, by having the Doctor flirt with a new, openly bisexual character called Captain Jack. There was a lot more fuss when they kissed on the lips. Since then, Jack has spun off into his own, very adult series, Torchwood, but he is returning (along with former companions Sarah Jane, Martha and Rose, her old boyfriend Mickey and her mum Jackie). Significantly, the show has evolved. It now encompasses all kinds of sexuality without fuss, even from the tabloids.

"I keep thinking, 'Where are the headlines about this in The Sun?'," Davies admits. "There has been a cultural shift." He loves the thought that somewhere a young boy might watch Captain Jack with his family and say, "Actually, I've got something to tell you." "That's it! That kid is still rare, but it has started. If there is one kid now doing that, then in 10 years' time there will be thousands of kids, and 10 years after that, every kid who wants to will be doing that. Isn't that brilliant?"

The playground has yet to catch up with its heroes: boys and girls are still being bullied for their sexuality. But, as a 44-year-old man, Davies is "massively jealous" of the increasing numbers of teenagers able to be openly gay. "There are still thousands closeted, but they are a proper little subset of gay life: 'out' 15-year-olds. It's the most magnificent shift in the whole culture."

Born in 1963, Davies did not come out to his parents until he was at Oxford University. What if he'd done it 10 years earlier? "My parents would have been fine. They wouldn't have chucked me out. There would have been silence," he says. "Nobody had the language then, in Swansea in the Seventies. Not even my parents, who were both Latin teachers. It's one of the great gay myths, the chucking out of the teenager."

After a degree in English literature, he became a BBC trainee (inventing the "T" to differentiate himself from a Radio 2 DJ). Somewhere in the vaults is the one episode of Play School he presented, but Davies quickly moved on to writing and producing. And enjoying the wild life brought to screen in Queer As Folk, the explicit but beautifully written 1999 series about young gay men. It broke all kinds of taboos, and caused bemusement back home.

"My mum said, 'This is porn!' I said, 'No it isn't, it's life!'" She usually narrated television for his father, who had gone blind. So how did she describe the masturbation scenes? "I don't know," he says, laughing. "I never had the nerve to ask."

It seems a long time ago now. "The fury of that sex drive, the madness of Canal Street [in Manchester], I wonder how much of that comes from repression when you're 12 to 20?" he says. "I'm not saying it's going to go away, because it's fun, and we had some good times, but what is thought of as 'the Scene' is an explosion that happens once you've left home, have your own wage, and can become whatever you want."

His own life calmed down seven years ago, when he met a customs officer called Andrew in a nightclub. They live separately in Manchester (although Davies also has a flat in Cardiff, where Doctor Who is made) and see each other only at weekends. "It's not that a portcullis comes down if he pops in on a Wednesday for a cup of tea, but, actually, he's got the patience of a saint. I didn't see him this weekend, because I had to rewrite the Christmas special." Davies stops himself. "He hates being talked about in interviews."

They were together on the day the show returned, in 2005. "There was such huge anticipation about it. I remember getting into the car with Andrew and he was like, 'I bet if you turned on the radio now they would be talking about Doctor Who.' He switched it on and they were! Jesus Christ, it was white hot." How did that feel? "Lovely! Fuck, I'm not going to be modest about that. It was lovely."

The Doctor makes millions for the BBC, so perhaps it should listen to Davies's anger about the time it is now being shown — 40 minutes earlier than before, at 6.20pm. "It's a shame. It's a terrible slot. We will lose viewers. I am unhappy. We'll see." Expect to see it moved back, later in the run.

Other sci-fi writers make a point of praising their hardcore fans, but Davies can be very rude about them (look away now, Whovians). "It's like having a swarm of fucking mosquitoes buzzing around you. It doesn't stop you doing your job, but, Christ, they buzz!"

They are buzzing furiously about the casting of the comedian Catherine Tate as the gobby new companion, Donna. At 39, she is much older than her predecessors, so isn't it hard to see little girls pretending to be her, as they did Rose? "I completely disagree," says Davies. "When I was an eight-year-old fan I could not have told you how old Sarah Jane was. Also, there's a heartiness, a boldness and a childlike glee to everything Catherine does. Kids love her. Her catchphrases are in every playground."

Tate still gets to be funny. This coming Saturday she asks a young girl in Pompeii where she hangs out with her mates: "D'you go to TK Maxximus?" But she also has to cope with the trademark emotional lurch in every episode, designed to tug heartstrings even amid sci-fi madness.

The BBC promises this will be even more intense in episode six, "The Doctor's Daughter". Is Davies going to say how come the most eligible — but elusive — bachelor in the universe has got a child? "No! Shut up! Mind you, we'll never get to week six without someone blabbing." Out on the fansites, they're guessing aliens will pinch the Doctor's DNA. But that sounds too prosaic, and not enough to justify the hyperbole of a writer who saw part of the episode and calls it "one of the single most audacious moments in Doctor Who's 45-year-history... cheeky, hilarious and brave".

The Child Support Agency is involved, says Davies. Donna is "literally like Jiminy Cricket on his shoulder, telling the Doctor what to do as a father. She says, 'I've seen men like that round our estate, with pushchairs and prams. You've gone into dadshock.'"

So here's your pay-off, Whovians: the Doctor is going to have a baby.

It's just a theory, but if a post-operative transsexual from Oregon can become pregnant in real life — as reported last week — then a fictional 900-year-old from Gallifrey with two hearts certainly can. There. That should get the mosquitoes buzzing.

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1. Comment #155873 by HourglassMemory on April 6, 2008 at 7:42 am

Ha!
Can't wait!

Other Comments by HourglassMemory

2. Comment #155876 by Prankster on April 6, 2008 at 7:49 am

 avatarWondered what this was doing on the Newspage when I saw Dawkings was making an appearance-tenuous link being his wife Lala Ward played one of the Dr's companions.

However on waiting for the new series....? Well I won't be unfortunately

Watched the first few of the first series but can't get into it-in fact the last time I watched Dr Who, Tom Baker was the lead-ahh! the good old days......

Other Comments by Prankster

3. Comment #155880 by Steve Zara on April 6, 2008 at 8:01 am

The evolutionary biologist and best-selling author of The God Delusion will appear as a guest star in the new series of Doctor Who, which began last night.


David Robertson will go nuts, and will probably insist on equal time.

Other Comments by Steve Zara

4. Comment #155882 by Cartomancer on April 6, 2008 at 8:30 am

 avatarCartomancer's list of his top three favourite things in the whole wide world:

1. Sci-fi and Fantasy geekery
2. Gayness
3. Richard Dawkins

Much jumping up and down with barely-concealed schoolboyish excitement was had after reading the above article. I can't wait to see Richard in Doctor Who - the idea is simply magnificent. In fact, now Richard is retiring from his Charles Simonyi post, why can't we have him as the Doctor permanently!

Davies' account of the creeping acceptance of young gay people in British society is spot on too - if anything it's much more advanced than he supposes and progressing much more quickly. Though I share Davies' jealousy that my teenage years couldn't have been like that. Still, some things just make you feel good about the world

Ecce gratum et optatum, ver reducit gaudia!

Other Comments by Cartomancer

5. Comment #155887 by Sargeist on April 6, 2008 at 8:40 am

 avatarSteve:

Genius! :)

Other Comments by Sargeist

6. Comment #155889 by mrjonno on April 6, 2008 at 8:47 am

Dr Who and Richard Dawkins on the same Saturday night there is a Flying Spaghetti Monster!

Throw in Captain Jack who is so cool its almost enough to turn a hetro man gay (well not quite)

Its nice to see Richard Dawkins doing something a little less 'dry'. I think he a great scientist ,book write and politican but its great he will be doing something a little less serious

Other Comments by mrjonno

7. Comment #155899 by Horwood Beer-Master on April 6, 2008 at 9:10 am

 avatarMy take on this news can be found here,
http://richarddawkins.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=795901#p795901

Sorry for being a bit sceptical (although I suppose this is the right place for it!)

Other Comments by Horwood Beer-Master

8. Comment #155901 by Darwin's badger on April 6, 2008 at 9:12 am

 avatarI actually thought that it started quite well last night, and some of the spoilers in the article suggest that it will be a good series. Great to see the Dawkmeister in there too; if there's anyone in this world that epitomises the Doctor's delight and wonder at the awesomeness of the universe, it's Richard.

Other Comments by Darwin's badger

9. Comment #155908 by Mbee on April 6, 2008 at 9:37 am

 avatarWow!

What a great way to give the younger (and older) generation something to think about! Assuming that the plot of the show allows some real useful information to get across.

Science fiction has long been a breeding ground for new ideas and the various roles of science.

Other Comments by Mbee

10. Comment #155909 by Steve Zara on April 6, 2008 at 9:37 am

Throw in Captain Jack who is so cool its almost enough to turn a hetro man gay (well not quite)


It is hard to overestimate the good done by Russell T. Davies for the image of queer people.

When I was a teenager the image of a queer man was John Inman or Larry Grayson or some Now there is intergalactic superhero Jack.

Other Comments by Steve Zara

11. Comment #155910 by the great teapot on April 6, 2008 at 9:40 am

Sad to hear it.
Dr who is a crock of horseshite.

Other Comments by the great teapot

12. Comment #155915 by mdowe on April 6, 2008 at 9:55 am

 avatarOh dear ... worship and fanboy-dom? This celebrity thing has to be getting just a little awkward for someone aiming to be a respected scientist/educator -- it would certainly make me more than a touch uncomfortable!

It is nice that Professor Dawkins is making an appearance on Dr. Who ... I suppose if he is going to be tarred with 'celebrity' status he might as well thrive in it and have fun!

Other Comments by mdowe

13. Comment #155917 by Damien Trotter on April 6, 2008 at 9:58 am

 avatar"Sad to hear it.
Dr who is a crock of horseshite."

It may not be the greatest TV currently available. But neither you nor I could do any better. And we would do well not to forget that he (Russell Davies) is, after all, on our 'side'.

Nevertheless, I like the fact that Davies has helped bring the portrayal of gay relationships into the mainstream/prime-time media. And I'm looking forward to the episode with Prof Dawkins. If nothing else, it sounds like it could be good fun!

DT

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14. Comment #155921 by Cartomancer on April 6, 2008 at 10:11 am

 avatarPeople have always indulged in hero-worship and fandom. There's nothing new about it and nothing wrong with it. In the sixties it would have been Elvis or the Beatles. Before that people followed actors and playwrights and looked up to military heroes and kings. Historians and biographers such as Livy and Plutarch wrote of the deeds of great men and encouraged others to follow their example. Before that hero-worship actually was hero worship and people built tombs to their respected chieftains, shamans and warriors.

An expression of who we admire or wish to emulate is nothing more than an expression of the values we ourselves hold dear - of nothing less than who we are. It is an identity statement and a way of confirming and shaping our personalities. By the nature of a man's heroes shall ye know him...

Give this, isn't it great that lots of people identify with, admire and want to emulate what Richard Dawkins stands for? Who else in the public eye represents these values? Science, reason, that sense of wonder at the universe, unabashed intellectualism, common sense, compassion, unwillingness to pander to the status quo when something is wrong and can be made right, that genteel debonair demeanour that only a kindly, silver-haired Oxford don can carry off...

You can probably tell that I'm something of an RD fanboy myself by now. I even had a small poster of him on my wall for a long while!

Other Comments by Cartomancer

15. Comment #155922 by Satanburiedfossils on April 6, 2008 at 10:15 am

 avatarThis isn't the first time Richard Dawkins has made a guest appearance in Science Fiction.

You may recall that recently he appeared in the movie "Expelled".

Other Comments by Satanburiedfossils

16. Comment #155923 by Cartomancer on April 6, 2008 at 10:22 am

 avatarThose who have followed Russell T. Davies' work might also remember that he highlighted the large number of gay men who are fans of sci-fi and fantasy in Queer as Folk too. The character Vince (ironically enough a namesake of mine) in QaF was also a huge Doctor Who fan and had stacks of old videos of the programme in his flat. I'm pretty sure that portrayal was one of the things which made the BBC consider Davies for the job of reviving the Doctor for the modern age.

I think I saw an interview with Davies about this, where he said that it was probably the imaginative and escapist element that chimed with so many gay men. There's something about us as a minority which encourages us to live in several different and very separate worlds all the time - with our families, with our straight friends, at work and if we decide to mix with other gay people for the purposes of coupling or copulation. Or at least there traditionally has been this pressure - maybe it will reduce with increasing acceptance in society. Sir Ian McKellen thinks a similar tendency to play many different roles and a need to be different people for different audiences is what attracts so many gay men to a career in the theatre.

Other Comments by Cartomancer

17. Comment #155924 by Steve Zara on April 6, 2008 at 10:23 am

It may not be the greatest TV currently available.


The recent series has contained some of the best drama on TV of recent years. The episode "Blink" was magnificent. I thought "Girl in the Fireplace" was perhaps the best Dr Who episode I have ever seen.

Other Comments by Steve Zara

18. Comment #155925 by Buddha on April 6, 2008 at 10:29 am

 avatarI hope the Archbishop of Canterbury doesn't cotton on to the fact that RD is married to a regenerative transmuting Time-Lord. Technically, that would be bigamy.

On a tangent I found this alternate profile of the Prof.: http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Richard_Dawkins

Other Comments by Buddha

19. Comment #155927 by tubular_trekkie on April 6, 2008 at 10:31 am

 avatarYep, sounds like a fun idea to me!

I just hope the episode he appears in is better than the ridiculous 'Partners in Crime' opener we were subjected to last night. Fat monsters indeed :(

Other Comments by tubular_trekkie

20. Comment #155930 by Cartomancer on April 6, 2008 at 10:40 am

 avatarOh, and surely a pair of Latin teachers of all people would have some language to talk about their son's coming out with:

Fili, cinaedus es? Nobisne dicis ut in cubiculo pueri reclinere malis quam in cubiculo puellae? In fundamentum id capere delectis? Non cura, fili meo, in Imperio Romano gerendus fuit omne tempore! Et non enim incipiamus discurrere de Graecis...

Other Comments by Cartomancer

21. Comment #155935 by mrjonno on April 6, 2008 at 10:52 am

I think there is a big difference between admiring someone and worshiping them.

I admire Prof Dawkins for his contribution to science, the promotion of reason and fighting to ending the sacred place that someone people place religion in .

I do not however think the answer to life the universe and everything is Richard. He certainly isnt (nor would claim to be) a great artist, economist, physicist he hasnt even officially accepted the Flying Spaghetti Monster as his only pasta saviour.

Its religious people who think they have the 'absolute truth' not rational people.

Other Comments by mrjonno

22. Comment #155937 by Elles on April 6, 2008 at 10:58 am

 avatarTeehee!

I do believe I temporarily turned into a dolphin when I read that he would be a guest star. I was clapping my hands as if they were flippers and making high pitched giggles.

Other Comments by Elles

23. Comment #155941 by SPS on April 6, 2008 at 11:24 am

Cartomancer,

There's something about us as a minority which encourages us to live in several different and very separate worlds all the time...


Henry Miller once wrote something to the effect:

We live in three worlds at once - the world we think we're in, the world we're actually in, and the world we'd like to be in.

Not completely related to what you wrote, but maybe an insightful sentiment about the human race as a whole.

Other Comments by SPS

24. Comment #155945 by ChicagoMolly on April 6, 2008 at 11:45 am

Well, of course the Doctor has a daughter; after all, he has a granddaughter, right? Speaking of which, since Russell likes to bring back Faces From The Past, why not have the Doctor visit London 40 years after the Dalek Invasion of Earth and see how Susan is doing? Carole Ann Ford is still around, and hardly anyone else from The First Doctor era is any more.

And what's the deal with vulgarity in British papers (not that there's anything wrong with that). Russell dropped an F-bomb in the middle of the interview and it got printed! In the States the papers still get in trouble with anything juicier than damn or hell. Even a nice healthy Goddamn brings down a hail of *st*r*sks.

Other Comments by ChicagoMolly

25. Comment #155963 by rod-the-farmer on April 6, 2008 at 12:36 pm

 avatarSatanburiedfossils said in comment 155922

This isn't the first time Richard Dawkins has made a guest appearance in Science Fiction.

You may recall that recently he appeared in the movie "Expelled".

Actually, I think the correct description for that work of art should be NON-science fiction

Other Comments by rod-the-farmer

26. Comment #155998 by StraightEdge on April 6, 2008 at 1:23 pm

Steve Zara:

The episode "Blink" was magnificent. I thought "Girl in the Fireplace" was perhaps the best Dr Who episode I have ever seen.


Both of those episodes were written by Steven Moffat who thankfully is writing an episode for this series as well. It sounds suitably scary from what I've heard! He also wrote that fantastic Children in Need special with Tennant and former Doctor Colin Baker crossing paths :)

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27. Comment #156045 by eno on April 6, 2008 at 2:49 pm

The Dawk in Doctor Who is the greatest news all year!

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28. Comment #156050 by Darwin's badger on April 6, 2008 at 2:55 pm

 avatarStraightEdge, it was Peter Davison that Tennant met up with, not Colin Baker. You were one doctor out. :)

Steve Z, "Blink" was, indeed, fantastic, but there were several from that series. "Human Nature/Family of Blood" was a wonderful two-parter. However, "Blink" did give my daughter (aged 9 at the time) bad dreams, something that no other episode of new Who has done. She then spent the following week looming at her friends whenever they closed their eyes for a second. :D

Other Comments by Darwin's badger

29. Comment #156059 by Geoffb on April 6, 2008 at 3:07 pm

A terrific idea in my opinion. I'm sure Richard will be excellent.
And to the comment from "The Great Teapot" I think you need to take another look at the current Dr Who. If you worked for the BBC you would thank it for guaranteeing your pension!

Other Comments by Geoffb

30. Comment #156067 by Geoff on April 6, 2008 at 3:45 pm

 avatarAs someone who started watching it when William Hartnell was the Doc, I muct admit I enjoyed yesterday's episode, despite the silly adiposes!

Other Comments by Geoff

31. Comment #156069 by Shuggy on April 6, 2008 at 3:48 pm

 avatar
"It's one of the great gay myths, the chucking out of the teenager."
It bloody isn't! Just because it didn't happen to him and doesn't happen as much as it used to, doesn't mean it doesn't still happen.

Other Comments by Shuggy

32. Comment #156072 by phil rimmer on April 6, 2008 at 3:57 pm

 avatarRussel T Davies is truly someone we can be proud of in the UK. An unashamed creator of popular culture, he has done more to help us grow up and use our brains than very many more "serious" writers. "Queer as Folk" genuinely changed things and was hugely impressive, but Russel T really kicked off my journey from flaccid agnosticism to a morally-intentioned atheism with his astonishing two parter, "The Second Coming."

For me this still stands as the ultimate response to the religious on how they could lead a more moral life. I wish ITV would repeat it.

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33. Comment #156078 by HappyPrimate on April 6, 2008 at 4:21 pm

 avatarLoved the article and am looking forward to seeing Richard in the series. I've been a fan of Doctor Who for decades. We in the states will not get the current series until next year. I'll be waiting anxiously. We get your last year's shows here starting in a couple of weeks. Just so as you'll know, I'm a 56 year old heterosexual female. Doctor Who is indeed timeless and ageless.

Other Comments by HappyPrimate

34. Comment #156081 by black wolf on April 6, 2008 at 4:31 pm

 avatar
And what's the deal with vulgarity in British papers (not that there's anything wrong with that). Russell dropped an F-bomb in the middle of the interview and it got printed! In the States the papers still get in trouble with anything juicier than damn or hell. Even a nice healthy Goddamn brings down a hail of *st*r*sks.


Good observation, I've been wondering about the same thing for a while (not that it strongly occupies any significant part of my thinking). We get all kinds of vulgarity printed in German papers too, in fact many publishers accept it as a form of artistic expression or freedom of expression even to not censor someone else's statements.
I think there's some subconscious Lamarckian idea in American media and cultural behavior to make vulgarisms extinct by avoiding exposure of younger people to them. Not that that seems to be working. Or it's just not wanting to lose readers who have trained themselves to react by feeling deeply offended by words.
I don't like a heap of pointless profanity either, but a few of them don't bother me, and I can always choose to read someone else's statements or skip over the unlikeable bits.

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35. Comment #156086 by Darwin's badger on April 6, 2008 at 4:45 pm

 avatarPhil Rimmer, Rusty's "Second Coming" is available on Ebay.*edit* Can't get the link to work, I don't know my html. Just go there and look. It's on Amazon too, for less than £4.

Other Comments by Darwin's badger

36. Comment #156124 by NakedCelt on April 6, 2008 at 10:05 pm

The BBC promises this will be even more intense in episode six, "The Doctor's Daughter".

Why is this surprising? He had a granddaughter in his very first incarnation (Bill Hartnell, 1963). Presumably she had parents.

Other Comments by NakedCelt

37. Comment #156160 by Sargeist on April 7, 2008 at 1:31 am

 avatarI agree with other commenters: "Blink" was the most amazing Doctor Who episode that I have seen in my adult life. I'm sad to say, though, that it's got to the point where I get a shudder of fear every time I see that an episode is being written by Davies.

For example: "Blink" - good, "Human Nature" - good, "The Family of Blood" - good; cf: all those episodes with the Master in last series - godawful crap.

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38. Comment #156163 by phil rimmer on April 7, 2008 at 1:43 am

 avatarDarwin's badger.

Many thanks for this. It hadn't occurred to me that it had gone to DVD. I urge others to go check it out in about one days time, after I have secured my copy. :)

Other Comments by phil rimmer

39. Comment #156167 by Russell Blackford on April 7, 2008 at 1:59 am

Oh my Zeus, I'm really feeling my age. I didn't realise until I read this that that other Russell is younger than me I am, Poseidondammit. Never mind, I lurrve Dr Who and have followed it since I was a little kid. Can't wait to see the new series when it gets to Australia.

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40. Comment #156169 by Steve Zara on April 7, 2008 at 2:02 am

Comment #156167 by Russell Blackford

I know what you mean. Davies is younger than me. Christopher Ecclestone is younger than me. David Tennant is younger than me. Just for a while, in the last series, there was someone older - Derek Jacobi as the Master. But then *sigh* he went and regenerated.

Other Comments by Steve Zara

41. Comment #156170 by Wosret on April 7, 2008 at 2:19 am

 avatar
Cartomancer's list of his top three favourite things in the whole wide world:

1. Sci-fi and Fantasy geekery
2. Gayness
3. Richard Dawkins


Well, we have almost the same favorite three things. I would change the last one from RD to "proponents of science and reason" but other than that we share the same favorite three things.

Although lately I've been spending the majority of my free time reading and watching anything and everything to do with yuri that I can get my hands on. So I would have to move gayness to the top of the list. Not a lot for fantasty and si-fi right now. I am working on my writing and drawing skills to hopefully someday combine them all!!

I never actually saw an episode of Doctor Who before, though my Dad is a fan. Which is odd, as bigotted and hateful as he is against homosexuality, he still doesn't mind being huge fans of Queen, Elton John, and Doctor Who.

I will be sure to watch the episode with RD in it though.

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42. Comment #156179 by Corylus on April 7, 2008 at 3:08 am

 avatarMitchell
Which is odd, as bigotted and hateful as he is against homosexuality, he still doesn't mind being huge fans of Queen
What is it with uber straight men liking Queen? I know someone like this myself. I can only conclude that they manage to completely push Freddie Mercury's life style out of their minds; or maybe there are a few that simply do not realise?

I recall as a kid watching Freddie on the television jumping about in a leotard. "Wow, I thought, he looks just like a P.E (physical education) instructor!"

This to me was the epitome of masculinity.

I was not the most savvy of children :D

Other Comments by Corylus

43. Comment #156205 by Quetzalcoatl on April 7, 2008 at 5:25 am

 avatarBunnyboiler-

fortunately, no. Reportedly some guy named Julian Sands will be playing Davros.

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44. Comment #156207 by Wosret on April 7, 2008 at 5:26 am

 avatarOh, he knows he is gay. He is quite the rock expert actually. Well, to someone like me who doesn't know anything about music, he seems to know a lot anyway. He told me that he had a poster of Freddie Mercury in a leotard in his room when he is younger. People made fun of his so he took it down.

I can't understand him very well, he is perhaps the best compartmentalizer I know. His favorite band is Rush, despite them being quite obviously atheistic, and against religion. With songs like "Show me don't tell me" about how you should have evidence for things, and not take them on faith. Or the whole record 2112 about a world with an oppressive temple leadership, in which the character commits suicide at the end as their only means of excape.

He is the plainly a enigma of a person. He is roots for the liberal party (doesn't vote for some crazy religious reason) is for many socialized programs. Yet he is zenophobic, and doesn't want to see the world progress toward a global civilization. He is technilogically savy, and is even in favor of transhumanism, yet he is a bible literalist, or believes some pretty damn wacky things about the world.

It is as if he is living in both worlds. I once got him to say that he had extreme doubts about the existence, and nature of god, and whether his religion is true. Though he is clearly quite afraid of losing out and not making into heaven and all that. I really think that it is a lose to gain equation with him, he thinks it is just better to hedge his bets.

He clearly checks his own personal moral compass, ideas, reason, and commonsense when it conflicts with what he thinks the bible expects of him.

Main reason why I argue so much against religion, and feel that it really is harmful. I think that at heart, my Dad is a smart and good person, but because of the things he believes about a certain book, and what it expects of him, he is willing to do some pretty stupid and bad things.

Which I think Sam Harris does an excellent job of arguing logically follows from such a position. Beliefs have consequnences on your behaviours, intelligent and good people can do stupid and evil things if he can be made to believe some absurd propositions.

I'm working on him though, but if I take things too far, he will walk right out and go home. Or hang up on me. So there is a certain limit he can take before I have to stop or he will stop talking to me. Though, I think over the years I have made an impact on him.

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45. Comment #156211 by Sargeist on April 7, 2008 at 5:39 am

 avatarCorylus,

That reminds me about an MTV music awards from a few years ago. Rob Halford had won a "lifetime achievement" award, or some such prize. It was being presented by Marilyn Manson, who said (and I am paraphrasing from memory):

"Whether you're a female man, like I am, or a man's man, like Rob, we both got into metal for the same reasons: tits."

So, sometimes people might not realise. (or, Marilyn was just being humorous)

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46. Comment #156221 by Peacebeuponme on April 7, 2008 at 6:13 am

Geoff
muct admit I enjoyed yesterday's episode, despite the silly adiposes!
Well, I think the great thing about RTD is that he even makes cutsey unsettling.

I haven't watched many episodes, but have been impressed with the ones I have. The stone angels one was not for kids! Plus they've retained some of the campness and shakey effects of the original but still made it look really polished.

Compared to half the crap on on a Saturday, its great viewing.

Lets just hope Richard does not finish the show being buggered by a bald transvestite...

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47. Comment #156226 by Cartomancer on April 7, 2008 at 6:22 am

 avatar
I recall as a kid watching Freddie on the television jumping about in a leotard. "Wow, I thought, he looks just like a P.E (physical education) instructor!"

This to me was the epitome of masculinity.
This brings up another interesting point which I was discussing with a straight friend the other day: how to characterise the interest of male homosexuals in, and approach of male homosexuals towards, overt displays of masculinity - particularly with regard to these kinds of hyper-masculine archetypes. The sort of things my friend was thinking of (which shows you how out of touch he is with modern gay "culture") are things like the traditionally masculine personas adopted by the village people (construction worker, policeman, biker etc). He also mentioned that someone else he knows participates in what is known in the gay world as "bear" subculture - basically a niche subculture for large, hairy, and often fat, pierced or tattooed gay men - and he wondered what on earth that was all about. To these I could add a few more examples, such as the iconic gay cowboy image, the bodybuilder, the rugby player (Dieux de Stade calendars anyone?), and the strange sexual fascination an awful number of gay people seem to have with "chavs" and similar assorted council-estate riff-raff (just look at the premium rate chatlines section in the back of any gay magazine if you don't believe me!).

My friend seemed to think that the prevalence of these hyper-masculine archetypes in gay "culture" could be explained as a subversive way of disarming the threat they might implicitly pose towards vulnerable, less than hyper-masculine gay men. In this view it's a form of co-option - to adopt the trappings of the oppressor and show that you're not frightened of him, that you're just as tough and determined yourself. Also perhaps trying to offend and unbalance the aggressor by showing him that he can't hide behind his trappings and feel safe from being tarred with suspicions of homosexuality. In fact, it might be about claiming those trappings so successfully that if he persists in them he is actually more likely to be tarred. It's kind of the flipside of the prominently effeminate gay stereotypes and affectations that abound also - which might themselves be either a conscious assertion of difference from the heterosexual norms or a blatant and controversial attempt to offend and unbalance narrow-minded bigots who see effeminate behaviour in a negative light. This view smells an awful lot like 1960s and 1970s political radicalism and trendy postmodern cultural theory to me, with all its talk of reclamation and empowerment, but I can just about see the point. I expect there is an element of conscious political posturing to it, or at least there was 30-40 years ago and especially with regard to cultural pioneers like Queen, the Village People and Frankie Goes to Hollywood.

Nevertheless, it does carry the rather condescending implication that gay men are naturally unmasculine and self-define largely by victim status. My own explanation is a rather simpler and more prosaic one. What is the one thing that defines the male homosexual? Sexual attraction to males. All the cultural/subcultural stuff is a socially constructed add-on and, while it certainly influences the thinking and even the erotic imagination of many gay men, at bottom the one thing that we all share is a sexual attraction to men. Is it surprising, therefore, that so many of us should find masculinity so alluring! It seems almost too obvious to need saying, but if someone like my friend could overlook it so absolutely that he needs to take refuge in a complex theory of subversive co-option I begin to wonder whether it actually is that obvious to people at large. Has the effeminate stereotype gained too much popular currency for it to be as obvious as it should be?

Which is not to say, of course, that all gay men find hyper-masculine men supremely sexually alluring. A good number of us (me included) have tastes which run very much to the opposite end of the spectrum - to the boyish, the unthreatening, the clean-cut, the gentle and the sensitive. Some even like outright effeminate men, and there's nothing wrong with that either (though I suspect the psychology behind it is perhaps slightly more complex). It's a dangerous thing to generalise too much in this area. But surely my underlying point about masculinity must have some mileage?

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48. Comment #156263 by Peacebeuponme on April 7, 2008 at 7:56 am

Cartomancer
Dieux de Stade calendars anyone?)
I reckon I'm one a the few straight guys to know about these. My gay friend says to me "Imagine all the Hollyoaks girls doing a nude calendar, and filming the making of it."
the strange sexual fascination an awful number of gay people seem to have with "chavs" and similar assorted council-estate riff-rafr
Ha ha. Its almost like you know my mate!

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49. Comment #156267 by Peacebeuponme on April 7, 2008 at 8:02 am

Mitchell Gilks
I never actually saw an episode of Doctor Who before, though my Dad is a fan. Which is odd, as bigotted and hateful as he is against homosexuality, he still doesn't mind being huge fans of Queen, Elton John, and Doctor Who.
But remember, we didn't know Freddie or Elton were gay for most of their careers...

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50. Comment #156289 by Geoff on April 7, 2008 at 8:49 am

 avatar43. Comment #156179 by Corylus


What is it with uber straight men liking Queen? I know someone like this myself. I can only conclude that they manage to completely push Freddie Mercury's life style out of their minds; or maybe there are a few that simply do not realise?


Dunno if I qualify as "uber-straight" or not, but in my case the sexual preference of a musician/band is totally irrelevant to whether I like their music or not.

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