Comments by chamber

1. Groundbreaking Research Has Scientists Talking With Apes

Comment #47064 by chamber on June 3, 2007 at 12:27 am

If the apes are my anscestors, what about the skeleton that was found in Middle east and its size is 6 meters almost as it is believed that one of the first human being skeleton? I can attach it as well if you want it.

2. What I Think About Evolution

Comment #47062 by chamber on June 3, 2007 at 12:20 am

There MUST be a god, there MUST be a god, there MUST be a god... (repeat ad nauseum until you believe it).

When I see the answers like that I feel very much funnier that any atheist. To me when I check all the comments, I see that atheists started to turn out to be a vulture culture cult. They picked out the sentences from the articles that are against the evolution and Mr Dawkin's delusion, and try to eat it chew it and throw it out because they can't digest it. Thay are like hunters start firing aimlessly unlogically and being hunted instead of hunting something.
"If you cannot beat them with logic, use the humor" became, sadly to say, atheist's motto.

If I write as below,
There MUST be a blind watcmaker, there MUST be a blind watcmaker, there MUST be a blind watchmaker... (repeat ad nauseum until you believe it).

You see it is funnier right? But I wouldn't do that because I don't need to do that. In this case this web page goes nowhere where it only satisfies deep inside ego and feeds the idea of evolution for atheist people and it cannot go beyond the level of " we are mocking them and we beat them and we win the argumemet" to a level of reason and logic.
It is like a group of children playing in a playground with their toys -Blind watchmaker made toys- and entertaining only themselves and stubbornly waiting for new toys from blind watchmaker while rest of the kids are watching them and praying for them that one day they realize that those toys they play need a maker, concious, wise maker.

3. Aiming for knockout blow in god wars

Comment #47044 by chamber on June 2, 2007 at 11:30 pm

I am having fun when I read the comments on this page as well where athesits guys are trying to Find God in a lab experience and scream and rush out "Euraka" I found God. If you want to see God and Proof just step outside and take a stroll in the park and look at the trees, animals, oxygen, breeze and ask yourself everything came out just by chances or random evolution thing or Blindwachmaker joke? Please just think and you will see that all the creations need a creator. Nothing happens by random chances or luck.

As for 5the and 6th dimension proof? Can you tell me how do you dream while your eyes are closed?

4. Aiming for knockout blow in god wars

Comment #46628 by chamber on May 31, 2007 at 10:18 pm

Chamber, you're more fun when you're sober. I hope you stick around. I wouldn't want you to know where I live though. Things seem to shake you up a bit.

Do you know what infinite regress is? Check this out. You say there's no creation without a creator.
The creator was God. There's no creation without a creator so, what created God?

Or, the carpenter made the coffee table. Where did the carpenter come from?

Did God's mother eat some tomatoes? (WTF?)

Chamber wrote,

This is what people feel just fun when they read evolution theory. Isn't it ironic?

You are very poor in understanding. You just enter a book shop of a writer - the book shop is full of his books, a very famous writer who wrote a lot of books- Now without looking at his books and denying that all the books are written by him, you are asking the shop manager 'who is the father of the writer. Let me know if you don't I will not believe that all these books are written by Him.' Do you think this is a logical thinking? This universe with 400 hundred thousand kinds of animals and plants are a huge library and the writer of the books in this library is almighty God. Since a book cannot be written by itself as our book-like universe could not be.

Creation and creator cannot be in the same level. We, in terms of seeing, hearing and feeling are so limited and finite things are unable to see unlimited and infinite God. We can feel only three dimensions but as we know very well that there are 5th or 6th dimensions.

Did God's mother eat some tomatoes? (WTF?)

This is very funny question that my parents made me. How Is that possible? The couples ignite a miracle only. Otherwise we wouldn't be thinking that our mothers eat tomato for blood or corn for teeth, would we? Or we do not claim that there is a blind watchmaker in mothers' womb

5. The Dawkins delusion

Comment #46588 by chamber on May 31, 2007 at 6:17 pm

I'm just impressed that, even with your computer in pieces, you still managed to post a comment.

Chamber wrote,

Tell me about it. I just let the windows open and wind blew up and all the pieces were assembled on the ground. I just thought how lucky and blindwatcmakered I am. SoI can use my computer now.

6. The Dawkins delusion

Comment #46312 by chamber on May 30, 2007 at 10:14 pm

So, Martin Kettle, you say Richard Dawkins doesn't understand the "wishy-washy middle ground?" Please do enlighten us with your superior insight on this enigmatic demographic...

I'm waiting...

still waiting...

Oh is the article over already?

don't see what kind of satisfaction that the "millions who just feel better with some sort of confused belief than with nothing at all" could possibly have achieved.

Faith is believing in something without evidence. When it's religion, it's called faith, when it's anything else it's called stupidity and guilibility.

Hi every7body,
Long time no see.
I am in trouble with my atheist computer assembler I have hired him lately. He does not assemble anything. He put all the parts of the computer on the table and he is waiting for it to be assembled by blind watchmaker. He says it will take a long time but evolution will do it eventually.
He is still waiting. How can I help him? I called Mr Dawkins to ask his help but he said he is busy with his looking for evidence for his evolution thing in a ship. He said he needed a proof that that ship came into existence by blind watch maker. I overheard on the phone the ship owner's voice saying Mr Dawkins please believe me this ship was designed by an engineer. It did not come out by Blind watchmaker. The proof your are looking for the ship itself and his amazing design.

I am really desperate. Anybody can help me convince my atheist assembler to assemble my computer. My computer-like brain had really difficulty solving this problem.

7. Aiming for knockout blow in god wars

Comment #46297 by chamber on May 30, 2007 at 8:40 pm

I overheard a teacher's aide asking who made the model. On hearing that the student made it, she asked "Who made the student?". Well that was his father. "Who made him?", she asked.

She's still working on the infinite regress, and she won't be getting back to anybody anytime soon.

[edit - pewkatchoo, Chamber is obviously a troll]

Hi There,
I was buying a coffee table in a furniture shop the other day and suddenly coffe table started talking to other coffee table and asked a question

Coffee table 1: "Who made you" and answer came back "
Coffee table 2: A carpenter," and "what about you?"
Coffee table 1: I was made by a blind =watchmaker.
Coffee table 2: What is blind watchmaker?
Coffee table 1:A blind watcmaker is natural selection random chances. I mean I came into existence bu chances. I was a tree in the first place. Then wind, rain, storm and lot of natural things, there you go, I am here as a designed coffee table.
Coffee table 2: You are deluding my friend, you better see the head doctor. You are not reasonable." All the furniture in this shop was made a carpenter. Your are made by somebody. And carpenter and the tables are not the same kind. You understand? Creature and creation are not the same. Do not get yourself lost in the jungle of "who made you and who made you", because a coffee cannot make another coffee table like miracle-like unborn babies in mother's womb. We cannot not think that mother ate the tomatoes and babies blood came out, right? Take it easy. Okay. I will give you a good head doctor's name! Go and see him asap. Otherwise you will be a joke.

8. Aiming for knockout blow in god wars

Comment #45694 by chamber on May 29, 2007 at 2:03 am

Accusing RIchard Dawkins of being "negative", is like saying the weatherman is negative because there is a 90% chance of rain for your picnic. Both are merely telling the truth. Sorry if the truth rains on your delusion.

Chamber wrote,
Hi everybody

Sorry I was busy with my students' science project which was about making a solar system project. They have done all their science projects except one student whose father is an atheist. The kid's father insisted that the model would come into existence by itself. The father just put all the parts of the model on the desk and he said to his kid, "don't touch it, blind watchmaker will do it." We all waited and waited and waited but no model came out. Finally I just advised the kid to assemble the model at midnight so that father could find it finished in the morning and be happy. And my student took my advice and assembled it at midnight. Atheist father became happy with his repeating himself' I told you, I told you." Good God. What an experience(!)

I will get back to that delusion thing and rain thing on my next thread.

9. Genie shows barred by Islam, clerics say

Comment #34399 by chamber on April 24, 2007 at 12:56 am

Chamber: How can you ignore the rules of logic and then post a definition of "logic" to 'support' your argument? How can you claim to make logically sound arguments and at the same time commit some of the most obvious logical fallacies in the history of logical discourse?

I'll stop wasting my time now.

Bye.

My arguments do not sound logical. They are logical because it is not against the logic itself. What I say is basically our universe like book is written by God and all the anumals and plants - 400 thousand kinds of them- are the sentences of this book. Now evolution claims that this book is written by all itself/chances/luck etc. Each book is written by a writer and possibility of a book written by itself cannot be even thought. Like O'Reilly's point and Dawkins's answer "we're still working on it" is a never ending effort since you trying to prove something that does not go along with logic. So you better think about it again. Nothing happens if nothing comes out in the first place.

10. Medicine without Evolution Make Sense?

Comment #34367 by chamber on April 23, 2007 at 10:23 pm

Illigocal and circular arguments goes along with the arguments that insists on something illogical. I just quote what I wrote for Mr O'reilly interview wipe-out. Though - to be fair - O'reilly could have let Mr Dawkins speak more, the result will be no difference. Because you arguing against logic and there is no way that you will win the argument.
My quotation;

The Universe is a book written by God with 400 sentence-like thousand kinds of animals and plants, and you still say there is no evidence because you do not know how to read this book. Once you can't read it, you start making false and illogical assumptions that all creations came from a worm and worm came from a Dna along with genes that were playing in a warm water pond, and a selfish gene found a cell by chance and luck. Genes were there at the beginning. So does this sound logical? You situation is really hopeless since you are saying that a book can be written by an author? Please let me know when you get to the point Mt O'Reilly pointed out. And try to accept that God is everywhere, where ever we look at, in His beautiful designs.

11. The Video: Bill O'Reilly Interviews Richard Dawkins

Comment #34350 by chamber on April 23, 2007 at 9:02 pm

I wanted to respond to your recent interview with Mr. Richard Dawkins regarding Atheism. I was so excited to see him on TV as I am obviously a fan. Perhaps you should have read his book Sir. All of your rebuttals to Atheism were fully treated in his book and I feel that you are on the losing side.

Question: Mr Dawkins said" we are working on it" an answer to Mr O'reilly's question? What is that? I really wonder?

For one, I do feel it is tragic that people such as yourself try to stereotype Atheists as immoral. This is a horrible argument for Christianity, in and of itself, but more importantly it is ridiculously false. I am an Atheist Sir. You will find no police record for me. No crimes, no violence, theft or tax evasion. You will find this in excess among Evangelical preachers, however. How dare you, Sir, pile all of us on a heap with the likes of Hitler, Stalin, and Mao. I think any honest Atheist would agree that bad men will be bad with or without religion. The sad thing about religion is it gives bad men a leg to stand on. When you can support your atrocities with scripture from Leviticus and Deuteronomy, you just may get more support.

So what? I am a believer in God as well! I have police record whatsoever? men might have a high risk to be bad if they don't have any faith. Because judgment day and fear of God and relatively love of God keeps us away from doing bad things. For atheist people, they have no restrictions and no boundaries since they do not believe that they will have to account for their bad deeds. Briefly killings and all kinds of murderers have no religion, no faith, no nation and no race.

My second point is to address how you feel that it takes Faith to be an Atheist. This is actually a joke Mr. O'Reilly. Deny for me that you were born an Atheist? The truth, as you and I both know, is that we are all born Atheists. We are indoctrinated to believe whatever beliefs are popular in our cultures regardless of any empirical, or objective evidence to support the ridiculous claims made in the Bible, or the Koran etc. It takes absolutely 0 faith, to see that there is no evidence for a god, and to conclude therefore that there is no reason for belief in one. Does it take Faith to believe there are no fairies, trolls, or a Lockness Monster Mr. O'Reilly?

The Universe is a book written by God with 400 sentence-like thousand kinds of animals and plants, and you still say there is no evidence because you do not know how to read this book. Once you can't read it, you start making false and illogical assumptions that all creations came from a worm and worm came from a Dna along with genes that were playing in a warm water pond, and a selfish gene found a cell by chance and luck. Genes were there at the beginning. So does this sound logical? You situation is really hopeless since you are saying that a book can be written by an author? Please let me know when you get to the point Mt O'Reilly pointed out. And try to accept that God is everywhere, where ever we look at, in His beautiful designs.

The difference between men like you, at least in your religious preference, and Mr. Dawkins and myself, is that you accept a Truth merely because you desire it. It is definitely desirable to die and go to paradise. I'm sure thats what the 911 hijackers felt as well. And I mean no disrespect to compare you to them. You are most certainly not them. But the standard by which you determine your religious convictions is near identical. No Mr.O'Reilly, something is not True because it is Desirable. Something is True merely because it is. You may want Jesus to be you Lord and Saviour, and it may even be great if he is. But there is no logical reason to believe this is so. And you are left with scarred intellectual integrity.

Have a good day.

Sincerely,

12. Pope says science too narrow to explain creation

Comment #33836 by chamber on April 22, 2007 at 4:17 am

139. Comment #33396 by Stewart on April 20, 2007 at 2:39 am
Oh, I get it. Chamber thinks the carpenter created the wood. I thought he would have thought that god created both wood and carpenter. If the carpenter has children, who created them? Chamber claimed to have read "The Blind Watchmaker." If this claim is true, he does not seem to have understood it very well, because he is mocking claims that have not been made. I can only say I'm glad that we are finally making enough dents in the public consciousness to have caused this massive backlash. It's about time believers realised that their position is neither shared nor respected as widely as they wanted to assume.

Chamber says

Analogy: Analogy is both the cognitive process of transferring information from a particular subject (the analogue or source) to another particular subject (the target), and a linguistic expression corresponding to such a process. In a narrower sense, analogy is an inference or an argument from a particular to another particular, as opposed to deduction, induction, and abduction, where at least one of the premises or the conclusion is general. The word analogy can also refer to the relation between the source and the target themselves, which is often, though not necessarily, a similarity, as in the biological notion of analogy.

Chamber says
Since you are so much blinded by blindwatcmaker I am trying to to make it simple for you. Again creation cannot be same as with his creator. Evolution says all the furnutire all over the world(Analogy just an analogy) came out of a small piece of wood through chances and luck. Now tell me! Am I mocking or I am directly addressing your intellince level and you avoid answering me because you have no answer except mocking! By the way I did not start yet mocking as much as Dawkins did in his books.

Just saw the other comment that came in. "If we just believe in god we won't need science" seems to be the gist of it. I wonder if Chamber even realises that many, many people find the all-purpose-solution idea of supernatural entities much more preposterous and impossible to swallow than he does the evidence-based scenarios proposed by science. A few hundred years ago even to claim it were possible to do what we're doing now by contributing comments to a website from different continents in real time might have had us burned at the stake.

Chamber quotes
The first individuals to self-identify as "atheist" appeared in the 18th century; today, about 2.3% of the world's population describes itself as atheist.[2] (from Wikipeadia)
Many people story:
http://wiki.cotch.net/index.php/Fake_fossils

13. Pope says science too narrow to explain creation

Comment #33835 by chamber on April 22, 2007 at 4:15 am

140. Comment #33620 by John Phillips on April 20, 2007 at 6:14 pm

There is no disgrace in being ignorant about a subject, the disgrace comes from wilfully remaining ignorant when the evidence is there for you to research for yourself. Of course, it does involve more effort on your part than simply accepting what some supposed religious authority figure tells you about evolution. But what price a little effort for real evidence backed knowledge instead of being told goddidit. Of course many believers dismiss evolution for the reason that it doesn't equate with their religion's ego-centrist world view, i.e. they are no longer 'special' or 'chosen', simply a differently evolved member of the animal kingdom. But then again, science is no respecter of egos, religion's or any one else's either for that matter.

Chamber says
Ignorance comes through not knowing the truth. I am looking to find God. I am even just looking at myself. My heart, blood veins, lungs, gallbladder that produces acid according to the food, brain, best portioned my body parts, like I don't have my eyes at the back of my head- you know blindwatcmaker and chances are involved right, which are unconscious, mindless ideas in your case- my hair, my camera like eyes, my memory and my soul. If you ignore all these beautiful creation and attribute them to blind chances and luck, who would be ignorant? Honestly I am asking who would be?
Holy Books are the interpretations and explanations and catalogue of the world and universe. We believe in God because we see his Art in his creation not only holly books tell us. Prophets, holy books, our universe and our conscious are the proofs of God.

14. Pope says science too narrow to explain creation

Comment #33832 by chamber on April 22, 2007 at 4:12 am

Re the many comments of Chamber.

Oh dear.

- Your analogy of a tree evolving into a dining table is completely fallacious, and only serves to undermine any point you were trying to make. Tables are not natural. Humans took trees, and turned them into tables. Trees mostly evolve into...wait for it...better-adapted trees. I understand you were trying to use it as an analogy for God creating everything, but provoking amusement and bemusement is not a good way to make a point. Evolution has nothing to say about artificial structures.

- 400,000 is an interesting number. There are actually hundreds and hundreds of millions of species out there in the present day, and most of them are beetles.

Chamber says

Oh My God!
So creation has a bigger number then. The kinds of animals and plants are 400 hundred thousand. I am sure about it.

- You seem to believe in souls. ASIDE from the Bible, what exactly is your evidence for this? You know, scanning of the brain has shown that different areas activate when we do different things, while others do not. The idea of a "ghost in the machine", of a little Chamber behind your eyes, is an illusion of the senses. There is no centralised "you", so how can there be a soul?

Chamber says
Our body is the dress of our soul and our eyes are the windows of our soul. When people are dead, they don't move. When people are sleeping, still they don't move and they can still see the dreams while their eyes are closed. Please do not tell me that we don't dream. Check further info about souls' existence,

http://www.mercola.com/2002/jan/2/soul.htm

I followed your living dinosaur link. Very amusing. I don't know what part of the world you're from, but I'm from the UK. We have a similar myth regarding the "Loch Ness monster", where some believe that a plesiosaur lives in a lake in Scotland. This of course ignores the fact that the loch has no fish, so there's nothing for it to eat, and that a plesiosaur is an air-breather, and would have to come to the surface so often that you couldn't fail to observe it. Your examples are not lending your position any credibility.

Chamber says
So if this is the way do answer for a scientific article, what can I say welcome to club of no answer but mocking about logical articles and ideas which was started by Dawkins.

- You talk about perfect body parts. Humans are not perfectly designed, by any means. Our air and food pipes cross, so we choke. We have appendixes. Our spines are curved- for standing upright, that isn't great. Ask an engineer. An analogy for the positioning of reproductive organs might be "the playground between the sewers". We have wisdom teeth that don't properly fit our jaws. Above a certain height, our skeletal structure is insufficient, causing serious problems. Ask any of those people with thyroid problems who grow to seven feet or more.

- Finally, you said that believing in a Creator is easier than "figuring out illogical stories". Firstly, they're only illogical the way you tell them. If you've really read RD's books, you should know that. Secondly, JUST BECAUSE SOMETHING IS EASY TO BELIEVE DOES NOT MAKE IT TRUE. People used to believe the sun went round the earth. I mean, come on, it's easy to believe. Just look at it, right? THEY WERE WRONG.

That's all for now.

Chamber says
Now you're saying that all of your perfect designed and well-portioned body parts are not perfectly designed because of your curved spines. Check with your biology information why it is like that? Do not make quote all the parts and functions and their amazing work. You eat the food and the useful parts the food becomes blood and your entry body is working through the signals between related parts and brain and now you are saying we are not perfectly created. Come on we are not talking about random chances and luck that we can have insufficient and inadequate body parts. Please get real. Get out of your delusional world and see the truth. Please!

15. Medicine without Evolution Make Sense?

Comment #33830 by chamber on April 22, 2007 at 4:07 am

141. Comment #33697 by Quetzalcoatl on April 21, 2007 at 7:10 am
Re the many comments of Chamber.

Oh dear.

- Your analogy of a tree evolving into a dining table is completely fallacious, and only serves to undermine any point you were trying to make. Tables are not natural. Humans took trees, and turned them into tables. Trees mostly evolve into...wait for it...better-adapted trees. I understand you were trying to use it as an analogy for God creating everything, but provoking amusement and bemusement is not a good way to make a point. Evolution has nothing to say about artificial structures.

- 400,000 is an interesting number. There are actually hundreds and hundreds of millions of species out there in the present day, and most of them are beetles.

Chamber says
Oh My God!
So creation has a bigger number then. The kinds of animals and plants are 400 hundred thousand. I am sure about it.

You seem to believe in souls. ASIDE from the Bible, what exactly is your evidence for this? You know, scanning of the brain has shown that different areas activate when we do different things, while others do not. The idea of a "ghost in the machine", of a little Chamber behind your eyes, is an illusion of the senses. There is no centralised "you", so how can there be a soul?

Chamber says
Our body is the dress of our soul and our eyes are the windows of our soul. When people are dead, they don't move. When people are sleeping, still they don't move and they can still see the dreams while their eyes are closed. Please do not tell me that we don't dream. Check further info about souls' existence,

http://www.mercola.com/2002/jan/2/soul.htm

I followed your living dinosaur link. Very amusing. I don't know what part of the world you're from, but I'm from the UK. We have a similar myth regarding the "Loch Ness monster", where some believe that a plesiosaur lives in a lake in Scotland. This of course ignores the fact that the loch has no fish, so there's nothing for it to eat, and that a plesiosaur is an air-breather, and would have to come to the surface so often that you couldn't fail to observe it. Your examples are not lending your position any credibility.

Chamber says
-So if this is the way do answer for a scientific article, what can I say welcome to club of no answer but mocking about logical articles and ideas which was started by Dawkins.

- You talk about perfect body parts. Humans are not perfectly designed, by any means. Our air and food pipes cross, so we choke. We have appendixes. Our spines are curved- for standing upright, that isn't great. Ask an engineer. An analogy for the positioning of reproductive organs might be "the playground between the sewers". We have wisdom teeth that don't properly fit our jaws. Above a certain height, our skeletal structure is insufficient, causing serious problems. Ask any of those people with thyroid problems who grow to seven feet or more.

- Finally, you said that believing in a Creator is easier than "figuring out illogical stories". Firstly, they're only illogical the way you tell them. If you've really read RD's books, you should know that. Secondly, JUST BECAUSE SOMETHING IS EASY TO BELIEVE DOES NOT MAKE IT TRUE. People used to believe the sun went round the earth. I mean, come on, it's easy to believe. Just look at it, right? THEY WERE WRONG.

That's all for now.

Chamber says
Now you're saying that all of your perfect designed and well-portioned body parts are not perfectly designed because of your curved spines. Check with your biology information why it is like that? Do not make quote all the parts and functions and their amazing work. You eat the food and the useful parts the food becomes blood and your entry body is working through the signals between related parts and brain and now you are saying we are not perfectly created. Come on we are not talking about random chances and luck that we can have insufficient and inadequate body parts. Please get real. Get out of your delusional world and see the truth. Please!

16. Medicine without Evolution Make Sense?

Comment #33828 by chamber on April 22, 2007 at 3:53 am

17. Medicine without Evolution Make Sense?

Comment #33827 by chamber on April 22, 2007 at 3:52 am

140. Comment #33620 by John Phillips on April 20, 2007 at 6:14 pm
Chambers: Just to correct you on one point in particular that you and many creationists seem to get your knickers in a twist about, we are not evolved from worms. Now we do share a common ancestor with worms, i.e. the polyp, but we ourselves, didn't actually evolve from worms as worms evolved along one line while we evolved along another. This can be shown from analysing our respective DNA even to the extent of showing where the evolutionary branch occurred. I mention this one particular glaring error in the hope that you will look openly at other assumptions you may have about evolution that are also no doubt equally error strewn, at least if some of your replies to other posters on this site are any indication.

Chamber says

All right start it over again.
Analogy:
There was a small tiny piece of wood at the beginning. That tiny wood first evolved into a small butt ashtray, That ashtray evolved into a wooden fork then fork evolved on and on and on there you go we have a got a very big cupboard. All this happened through chances, luck, wind, rain etc. So What you say is that huge cupboard came from a small piece of wood indirectly. Does it make sense?
Indeed, DNA and Genes' structures are so complex. One wrong move can result in disaster. Thus my analogy is very simple if we consider the perfect design and structures of each creature.
So if you give all date to the computer – if you don't trust your logic - and ask it what are the odds that the whole animals, plants humans were created by chances? Please share what you find with us.

18. Medicine without Evolution Make Sense?

Comment #33826 by chamber on April 22, 2007 at 3:50 am

139. Comment #33396 by Stewart on April 20, 2007 at 2:39 am
Oh, I get it. Chamber thinks the carpenter created the wood. I thought he would have thought that god created both wood and carpenter. If the carpenter has children, who created them? Chamber claimed to have read "The Blind Watchmaker." If this claim is true, he does not seem to have understood it very well, because he is mocking claims that have not been made. I can only say I'm glad that we are finally making enough dents in the public consciousness to have caused this massive backlash. It's about time believers realised that their position is neither shared nor respected as widely as they wanted to assume.

Chamber says
Analogy: Analogy is both the cognitive process of transferring information from a particular subject (the analogue or source) to another particular subject (the target), and a linguistic expression corresponding to such a process. In a narrower sense, analogy is an inference or an argument from a particular to another particular, as opposed to deduction, induction, and abduction, where at least one of the premises or the conclusion is general. The word analogy can also refer to the relation between the source and the target themselves, which is often, though not necessarily, a similarity, as in the biological notion of analogy.
Since you are so much blinded by blindwatcmaker I am trying to to make it simple for you. Again creation cannot be same as with his creator. Evolution says all the furnutire all over the world(Analogy just an analogy) came out of a small piece of wood through chances and luck. Now tell me! Am I mocking or I am directly addressing your intellince level and you avoid answering me because you have no answer except mocking! By the way I did not start yet mocking as much as Dawkins did in his books.

Just saw the other comment that came in. "If we just believe in god we won't need science" seems to be the gist of it. I wonder if Chamber even realises that many, many people find the all-purpose-solution idea of supernatural entities much more preposterous and impossible to swallow than he does the evidence-based scenarios proposed by science. A few hundred years ago even to claim it were possible to do what we're doing now by contributing comments to a website from different continents in real time might have had us burned at the stake.

Many people story:
http://wiki.cotch.net/index.php/Fake_fossils

The first individuals to self-identify as "atheist" appeared in the 18th century; today, about 2.3% of the world's population describes itself as atheist.[2] (from Wikipeadia)

19. Genie shows barred by Islam, clerics say

Comment #33814 by chamber on April 22, 2007 at 1:39 am

'If we attribute a creator then we don't need to figure out...' etc.

This is lazy thinking. If you were to actually read and inform yourself about the theory of evolution instead of just saying 'everything came from a worm', you would see that it provides much more satisfying reasons for the way the world is than just 'god did it'.

I would suggest Dawkins' 'The Selfish Gene' as a good starting point.

Regards.

Chamber says

Non_lazy thinking(!)
Once upon a time there were genes that poppet out of nowhere. They were just there. Nobody knew how? Then genes when they were playing in a warm pond, one of them smart selfish gene found a cell by chance and then they all hopped in that cell then, through wisdow, knowledge and power( in an unconcious gene?) of blindwatcmaker with assistance of luck and chances started mutating again and again. Sometimes since it was luck involved some results of mutations were terrible. Fishes came out with no eyes or some more terrrible monster like creatures. Then, when it comes to making them alive, the blindwatcmaker stopped. It couldn't make them move. They needed some kind of power to get them moving. They called Darwin and Dawkins but they cannot figure out anyhting. They are still thinking... and our fable story never ends because it started by chance.

Logical and scientifical thinking.

God created this world like a huge ship goin around the sun and and itself and created all servant like animals seperately and place them in this ship like our earth. HE created factory like soil so that diffrents plants and fruits can be grown in it. And very last time, God created the resident of the earth, the passenger of the ship.

Let the logical readers judge which one does make sense?

20. Medicine without Evolution Make Sense?

Comment #33810 by chamber on April 22, 2007 at 1:18 am

25. Comment #33063 by Deimos on April 19, 2007 at 4:46 am

Chamber,

The pharmacist is a human. Where did the pharmacist come from?

P.S.

Darwin is a doctor, because he taught us truth, i.e. knowledge that is according to reality. To tell the truth is teaching, ergo Darwin is a Doctor. To read the Bible to a child, is a story teller, somone who imparts fiction.

Good God! Please this is just an analogy. If you don't understand I what I am saying, ask somebody else. The world with its thousand kinds of creations with different structures and elements – ingredients – is a huge pharmacy.
.On an intellectual level, we cannot accept following statements.

Evolution: We evolved from monkeys. And there you go – a missing link found, a fossils that belongs to 1,5 miilion years ago. A so c-called fossil – another hoax – looking like monkey.

Truth: In Kenya scientists found the fossils that belonged to a human being. Human skull is the same as we have today and it dates back – hold your self tight- 2.8 million years. So now what? For further info about fake fossils, you can check the following web page.

http://wiki.cotch.net/index.php/Fake_fossils

21. Medicine without Evolution Make Sense?

Comment #33809 by chamber on April 22, 2007 at 1:14 am

26. Comment #33075 by Deimos on April 19, 2007 at 5:18 am
Chamber you are using circular reasoning. The key for your understanding is that the processes involved are independent of the pharmacist. The instance in which the "ingredients" are in place does not require a pharamacist.

You are chasing your own tail with your fake story. And the answer to your delusion is in the tail chase, you are chasing a part of yourself. That part is your own ego. Your ego raises your self as a human above everthing else. God is your Ego, your Ego is God. Ergo Man created God.

Chamber says
Sorry I have no tail to chase and I don't claim that my ancestors had a tail either.

This is what it is;
Darwin, your ego in this case- made up a story then rest of the guys like Dawkins some more outside- try to prove it with all kinds of illogical demonstrations, pictures, fake fossils etc. The more you try to prove the more you go down because the statements are not comprehensive and coherent.

This point is important because we are supposed to define truth outside us: truth must not depend on us, it must depend on the world. Something is true not because I think so, but because there is some objective truth out there in the world.

There is one and only one concept of truth, but it can be realized in multiple ways. Truth is defined by the set of coherent statements that make up a whole system of beliefs. Quoted from Alfred Tarski's theory of truth

Now check the following web page about fake fossils.
http://wiki.cotch.net/index.php/Fake_fossils

Truth is the knowledge that can be accepted by all people, and today people all over the world do not believe that they came from monkeys except a minority group people – that would be atheists.

The first individuals to self-identify as "atheist" appeared in the 18th century; today, about 2.3% of the world's population describes itself as atheist.[2] (from Wikipeadia0

Definition:
Begging the question in logic, also known as circular reasoning and by the Latin name petitio principii, is an informal fallacy found in many attempts at logical arguments. An argument that begs the question is one in which a premise presupposes the conclusion in some way. Such an argument is valid in the sense in which logicians use that term, yet provides no reason at all to believe its conclusion.

Begging question
Darwin says we – all plants, animals, humans- came from a worm.(we gotto prove it. Where are the grave yards bones?
Because Darwin is right. He tells the truth.
So evolution is true.

Reasing with creation
Logic says it is impossible that thousand kinds of animals came from a worm.

Because each kind of animals is created seperately and it cannot be attributed to one cell's random mutation and its blind chance. ( no need to play with with words like 'Blind watchmaker is not blind' to avoid and ignore the perfect creation) Otherwise we are unable to see the perfect designed creatures. We would have seen some ugly, monster-like creatures. Thus it is impossible that chances and luck has no power knowledge and wisdom and we logically conclude that all creatures were created seperately and multiplled from their own kind.

I would not say my computer mutated from my radio even by all chance and luck. One kind cannot turn into another kind that's why today from peacocks to octopus they are diiferent and they are beaitifully designed. Then if there is a designer then there must be a designer. That designer is God.

In this case, Begging question fits in evolution theory.
God's Creation reasons with logic so it is true.

22. Genie shows barred by Islam, clerics say

Comment #33397 by chamber on April 20, 2007 at 2:43 am

Your responses certainly don't demonstrated that you 'got it very well'. I can understand clear logic as demonstrated by edge100; unfortunately for you I can also see the flawed logic in your 'logical analogies'

Definations,
Logic; A set of sensible and correct reasons or reasonable thinking.
From American dictionary.

Nonsense: ideas, opinions, statements, etc, that are not true or stupid.
From American dictionary.

Now 400 hundred thousand of species – animals and plants came from a worm. Lovely peacocks, squids, ants, eagles, with amazing perfect body parts, human beings and our soul? Soul? Hold on please, Soul is not from the worms? It might be another sieve or something or we can just deny it if we cannot fix it.

God created all the creations with his ultimate wisdom and knowledge thinking about all the needs of each creature and arranging all cooperation and help between the creatures. Just think about the cooperation between sun – it gives light and heat- and animals, plants and human beings. If we attribute a creator then we don't need to figure out a lot of illogical stories like there was a Gene = it was just there and it mutated and mutated and evolved and evolved and there you go 400 thousand animals and plants. came out.

So which one is nonsense? Let reason and logic and reasonable and logical reader judge about it.

23. Pope says science too narrow to explain creation

Comment #33395 by chamber on April 20, 2007 at 2:38 am

While it's true that there can be no point in trying to reason with Chamber the way he's going on, it is worth pointing out (for his benefit, too, if he's still reading) that arguments like trees mutating into tables can only be the result of people he trusts misinforming him about what evolution is claimed to be. The problem needs to be attacked from the root and one of the roots is people cleverer than Chamber deliberately misrepresenting the case they are against to a wider public. Chamber may not agree with us or understand us, but he couldn't have written some of the nonsense he did if people he considered authoritative had not misled him. I wonder whether he cares that he is being lied to by the leaders of what he thinks is "his" side. What atheists actually think is out there, openly available, if he is interested in reading it from the source, rather than hearing the distortions put out by the enemies of free thought.

Chamber says
Definations,
Logic; A set of sensible and correct reasons or reasonable thinking.
From American dictionary.

Nonsense: ideas, opinions, statements, etc, that are not true or stupid.
From American dictionary.

Now 400 hundred thousand of species – animals and plants came from a worm. Lovely peacocks, squids, ants, eagles, with amazing perfect body parts, human beings and our soul? Soul? Hold on please, Soul is not from the worms? It might be another sieve or something or we can just deny it if we cannot fix it.

God created all the creations with his ultimate wisdom and knowledge thinking about all the needs of each creature and arranging all cooperation and help between the creatures. Just think about the cooperation between sun – it gives light and heat- and animals, plants and human beings. If we attribute a creator then we don't need to figure out a lot of illogical stories like there was a Gene = it was just there and it mutated and mutated and evolved and evolved and there you go 400 thousand animals and plants. came out.

So which one is nonsense? Let reason and logic and reasonable and logical reader judge about it.

Enemy is the one who is the enemy to what he does not know/see/feel/and understand.

24. Pope says science too narrow to explain creation

Comment #33383 by chamber on April 20, 2007 at 1:34 am

Chamber,

'All right. In my room , there is a wooden dining table. Now I say this wooden table was made by a carpenter but you say this table was made by chances out of a tree. Tree mutated again and again and finally evolved into a table(!)'

WTF!?

When I stopped laughing, I decided that you probably can't tell the difference between your arse and your elbow.

Our discussion is over.

Chamber says
My analogy is very simple but clowning around or swearing is not the answer. It is very simple. Evolution says that coffee table came out of small tiny piece of wood(even structure is different and worse it claims that all furniture all over the world came from that small piece of wood) and the reason and logic says the carpenter made it. Is it too difficult to understand? Or it is easier to swear when you have no answer. As you said, let's end this. Otherwise you will lose it completely. And please do not laugh by yourself. It is not a good sign.

25. Medicine without Evolution Make Sense?

Comment #33057 by chamber on April 19, 2007 at 4:39 am

A Medicine analogy

You go to a pharmacy, and pharmacist said you have to wait for million years to make the medicine because they use evolution method to get it. They put one ingredient on the floor, and then that ingredient, eventually through chances and luck, will come into existence. You say how come specific and certain amounts of ingredients will mix to make my medicine, and the pharmacist says,' don't worry luck and chances will do it.' You will be leaving the pharmacy swearing on the way to another pharmacy. Now let's get back to reality. This world is a huge Pharmacy with thousand of medicine like animals and plants; all kind of fish, squid, turtle, octopus, … and land animals, tigers, snakes, cockroaches, bats, peacocks, eagles, bees, and finally human beings, so if there is pharmacy full of medicines and each of which requires specific ingredients and certain portions, there must be a pharmacist. We cannot imagine that all medicines came into existence by chances or luck which is totally a chaotic and illogical imagination, delusion, illusion, whatever you call it.

Darwin cannot be a doctor because he is a story writer.

26. Genie shows barred by Islam, clerics say

Comment #33056 by chamber on April 19, 2007 at 4:34 am

43. Comment #32721 by edge100 on April 18, 2007 at 5:12 am

Chamber says
With the same logic, how come you don't believe that computer like organism, thousands of creatures, animals plants, and human beings have no builder/creator?

Edge says
Because there is no evidence that such a creator exists, and has the ability to create life. You cannot presuppose the existence of X to prove that X exists.

Chamber responses
If there is an X then there should be an X maker. Something comes into existence if somebody gets involve in. Nothing happens if there is nothing. Now there thousands of complex creations with ultimate organization, conscious, intuitions, mutual cooperation, which all require a determined and wise design and control.
I hope you are not relative of Bertrand Russell. A simple analogy. You go to a pharmacy, and pharmacist said you have to wait for million years to make the medicine because they use evolution method to get it. They put one ingredient on the floor, and then that ingredient, eventually through chances and luck, will come into existence. You say how come specific and certain amounts of ingredients will mix to make my medicine, and the pharmacist says,' don't worry luck and chances will do it.' You will be leaving the pharmacy swearing on the way to another pharmacy. Now let's get back to reality. This world is a huge Pharmacy with thousand of medicine like animals and plants; all kind of fish, squid, turtle, octopus, … and land animals, tigers, snakes, cockroaches, bats, peacocks, eagles, bees, and finally human beings, so if there is pharmacy full of medicines and each of which requires specific ingredients and certain portions, there must be a pharmacist. We cannot imagine that all medicines came into existence by chances or luck which is totally a chaotic and illogical imagination, delusion, illusion, whatever you call it.

Chamber says,
If I can't see something that does not mean that it does not exist.
Edge says
Quite right; absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Say, I feel like having some tea. Anyone know of a good celestial teapot I could use?

Of course, if something WERE absent, we would expect to see no evidence of its existence. Perhaps we should be looking for things that SHOULD exist, if god were real; perhaps for evidence of, say, the success of intercessory prayer?

Chamber responses
Please read my response above. If you still cannot the pharmacist in our big pharmacy, then assume that all animals, plants, human beings, Darwin and his story, Dawkins along with his books do not exist. They are all delusion. How does it sound? Does it make sense to you?

27. Genie shows barred by Islam, clerics say

Comment #33055 by chamber on April 19, 2007 at 4:31 am

42. Comment #32719 by Underworld on April 18, 2007 at 5:09 am
You just don't get it do you chamber!!

Chamber writes,
I got it very well and I responded it very well? What about you? Are you able to understand my comments or you will ask help from Dawkins? Or Dawkins wrote it to me already under another name? Anyway, Take it easy. And try to understand what I wrote with logical analogies?

28. Genie shows barred by Islam, clerics say

Comment #33053 by chamber on April 19, 2007 at 4:30 am

Comment #32716 by edge100 on April 18, 2007 at 4:59 am
So we are allowing ourselves to get drown in the swamp of illogical assumptions and questions.
Ok, chamber. You win. I've been wrong all along. Personal incredulity and circular reasoning IS a valid reason to believe in something. Simply defining god as outside of time and space is good enough for me; doing so with the physical universe, despite being based on the same standards, is just silly. How could I have missed it? Of course god exists outside of creation; we've just declared it.

Now, with all that in mind (and thank you for freeing me from the shackles of logical discourse), can you please direct me to the correct god to worship? It seems they all pretty much fit our (now mutual, it would seem) understanding of what a god has to be. How to choose? How...to...choose?

Should I be a Christian? A Muslim? A Jew? Perhaps I should worship Ra, or Zeus? The Flying Spaghetti Monster scares me (plus I hate meatballs), so that one's out. I've heard there are some really wicked-cool gods on some of those South Pacific islands. Maybe I should take a trip? I could use the tan. I really like Indian food; perhaps Hinduism or Sikhism would suit me?

Just point me in the right direction, and I'll be on my way. I'm sure you have some data suggesting that your particular god is the true god, and suggesting that everyone else is mistaken, right?

Chamber writes,
Now you are using reverse psychology to get somewhere. First, choosing a religion comes later. First step you have be able to see God in His perfect design. Mocking religions will not take you anywhere. I pointed direction already through my comments but I think you missed it otherwise I wouldn't have a comment like this, would I? The problem is you don't come to understand what I write since I address directly to yopur logic and reason. So what I get is either swearing or funny and mocking comments since you cannot answer logically. That's all right. If you insist staying in the swamp with the selfish genes and blind watchmaker, I can't push you.

29. Pope says science too narrow to explain creation

Comment #33034 by chamber on April 19, 2007 at 3:29 am

123. Comment #32935 by John Phillips on April 18, 2007 at 6:52 pm
Chambers: It is quite refreshing to see you admit so openly to stupidity and ignorance and I commend you on it. Though I fail to see what you hope to achieve with such an admission if you then refuse the opportunity to learn.

Chamber writes;
Philips: Again being offensive? Stupidity is to believe that you enter a big toy factory where there are thousand of toys with different design and function and then claim that all these toys came from a piece a metal after they mutate and mutate and mutate. . . through chances, luck, sorry, Blind toymaker, selfish toys, etc. Again I am very open minded if you teach me something reasonable? Why not? Try something logical?
Learning takes seeing, understanding and acknowledging. But still you are in the stage of seeing and you are calling me back to be with you while I am in the stage of acknowledging the truth.

30. Pope says science too narrow to explain creation

Comment #33033 by chamber on April 19, 2007 at 3:28 am

122. Comment #32727 by padster1976 on April 18, 2007 at 5:49 am
Chamber,

Clearly, you've never had an independant thought in your life. However, as with 'swearing', so what? That's just a class perspective - 'erotica' was the taste of the elite until the bewildered herd got hold it. Then it was horrible 'porn'. So what is swearing?

As for what your saying - Horseshit, crap, nonsense, tosh, twaddle, bollocks. Many, many words, all convey a similiar meaning in the context of being used as decriptive term for your opinion.

Chamber writes

Swearing: /swer/ swore/ sworn,
Offensive language: to use offensive language especially when you are angry.
Expression: I swear like a trooper.; use very offensive language.
From Longman advance dictionary.

And of course, its fine to have an opinion and its great that a forum like this exists where one can air their opinion.

However, you do appear to taking the piss out everything here. I can't see where you have actually stated your beliefs, if they are indeed embedded in the supernatural. Are they?

Chamber writes

I do not piss out anything. You designed a web page that claims evolution is the way we are created, then I prove it that it is wrong without referring to scientific level- except a few comments upon some guys' trying to explain it with amino acid thing. To me unintentionally I made some guys pissed off since they can't defend their argument logically. This is what it happened. And that's why some guys swear me occasionally.
I state there is one God and there is judgment day.

You describe evolutions 'funny stories' - such as...? Please tell us.

Chamber writes

All right. In my room , there is a wooden dining table. Now I say this wooden table was made by a carpenter but you say this table was made by chances out of a tree. Tree mutated again and again and finally evolved into a table(!)

Your blogs appear to have a rather arrogant and dismissive aloofness about them. I wonder how sincere you truly feel about what you say
Please, respond.

Chamber writes

I am not arrogant whatsoever but what I am trying to be is to be reasonable with myself and Dawkins' books and evolution. By the way the arrogance and much aloofness can be seen easily in Dawkins' books. He used a lot of humor as well to belittle creation. Why me? It is because I do not agree on evolution? That is not fair. I already sincerely invited all atheist readers to read my comments and quoted web page to just think it over
http://livingdinos.com/byebyevolution
But again If I sound arrogant I am sorry.

31. Then Call it God

Comment #32705 by chamber on April 18, 2007 at 4:12 am

14. Comment #30889 by severalspeciesof on April 10, 2007 at 8:45 am

"I don't understand god"

Hi several species of
You don't need to because you and we are all unable to understand God's perfect design completely.

"Then call it god"
So you call Him God because we cannot call worm as our God or selfish mindless genes. Because our logic is getting in the way.

"But I don't understand that"
"Then call that 'god'"
"But I don't understand that 'god'"

Understanding comes through feeling, seeing, thinking and last stage is understanding. So you are still in the stage of seeing? now you understand why you don't understand, right?

owww, my head hurts

That's okay. You go to pharmacy and pharmacy (he is an atheist) says, your pain killer may be ready in billion years later because our medicines are made through evolution, so we just put one inredient there,(he puts there, it was not just there, hmm that reminds me of something) then we just wait for evolution. Now you understand right? If you think about my comments and your head hurts again let me know I have got another pharmacy; he makes the medicine by himself. Take care. God bless us all.

32. Pope says science too narrow to explain creation

Comment #32702 by chamber on April 18, 2007 at 3:52 am

118. Comment #32638 by John Phillips on April 17, 2007 at 7:48 pm
Chambers: Usually, I am more than prepared and happy to spend any amount of time explaining evolution and any other subject I have knowledge of. Unfortunately, it is sometimes obvious that it would be simply a waste of energy as the person is either not capable of understanding or unwilling to understand the explanation. Sadly, you appear to fall into the latter category and prove the adage I first quoted to you more and more each time you post.

Dear John
Do not waste your time writing answers to me because my answers back to you will go unanswered. So you are right. You can just read it and think it over the creation. I am not arrogant or something. Please do not take it wrong. But answers are based on logic, and evolution theory is still in the stage of logic and reason. It can't go up to the scientific level, that's why my comments are just hitting on the nail. Not only one, may be more one thousand comments can be written to me, but my logic and reason will be ready to answer them with the help of God totally. I hoe you can meet me in the category of reason and logic.

33. Pope says science too narrow to explain creation

Comment #32700 by chamber on April 18, 2007 at 3:51 am

117. Comment #32513 by padster1976 on April 17, 2007 at 8:40 am
Chambers,

I don't normally get irritated by ignorance but as you're resisting our attempts to broaden your mind...

The website you posted... yeah, real slick and professional. When was it first put up, 1997?

It's just another variation on god of the gaps. Science hasn't explained it fully YET, so insert generic deity.

I liked this bit...

'Because no machine exists that did not have an intelligent inventor, each of the cell's machines is more evidence for an intelligent Creator.'

Horseshit mate. Sorry. Actually, I'm not sorry.

Check these out. Please.

Wikipedia also comes in many languages. How helpful!

I thought all the atheists are nice and well- behaved. Now I can judge that all the atheists are swearing. Does it sound a fair judgment? No it does not. I have got a friend who is atheist, he is really a nice guy. But I've never seen him swearing.
Anyway bad words belong to their owners. You have got different languages too, pal. How did you learn to swear like that? From selfish genes, or Blind watchmaker, or Darwin? It is not good man, it is not. Swearing is a terrible weakness when you can't defend yourself with logic. Then there it goes, overwhelming, relaxing swearing takes the control.
If reality hurts you just digest it. But if swearing will make feel relax, go ahead! I know Wikipedia very well. But the web page I wrote to you is the best. Let me write it again;
http://livingdinos.com/byebyevolution

Please just read it one more time carefully. No swearing please!

34. Pope says science too narrow to explain creation

Comment #32699 by chamber on April 18, 2007 at 3:48 am

116. Comment #32455 by William on April 17, 2007 at 5:42 am
Re: Comment #32372 by Chamber

Thanks for proving my point with that idiotic and irrelevant parable!

By the way, we CAN see the "atheist mind." It looks like a spongy mass, of about 3 lb, containing billions of neurons, or nerve cells, which communicate through links called "synapses." The spongy mass itself is called a "brain." You should
consider getting one.

Hi William,
I appreciate your nice comments. But in my primary school years I was taught that brain and mind different. Brain is like the computer. If you plug in the computer gets the energy and it is on. Our mind which is related to our soul is different from our brain. Please do not mention this again. Otherwise I will have to write another parable. Take it easy and try to see God in His design not in a hot water pond with filled with selfish genes. (!)

35. Genie shows barred by Islam, clerics say

Comment #32693 by chamber on April 18, 2007 at 3:26 am

36. Comment #32498 by Deimos on April 17, 2007 at 7:26 am
Dear Chamber,
You are indoctrinated.
You are taught the Universe is created.
You are taught that the Egoism of the Jews.
You are taught that there is a Creator.
But there is destruction in the Universe. Therefore your Ego, err... I mean God is a Destroyer.Is not this Satan?

Hi there

I am not adamant neither are logical people. We are still in the circle of logic to get answer from evolution story. Ego is given to us to Find God not to be arrogant and try to falsify creation of God. Creation cannot be thought bit it was seen, felt and acknowledged through our logic and reason. If you can think objectively, there is no way that you will not see God. Destruction lays in atheism. You know why? It is because it is like a poison that can influence people's mind otherwise. I am sure that I would like to invite all atheist readers to read my comments – get the print out and think about it in an open place objectively. Discuss it with yourself, your logic and make decision. I am not trying to impose anything. But give it a try. Please just think it over.

36. Genie shows barred by Islam, clerics say

Comment #32692 by chamber on April 18, 2007 at 3:24 am

So, assuming that (a) life is "complex" (as measured on some imaginary scale of absolute complexity) and (b) the only possible explanation for this complexity is the existence of an even more complex creator (to which, it would appear, your doctrine that complex things must have been 'created' does not apply), there is, it would appear, only one question left to answer:

Which creator?

Hi there again,
To Edge
For the sake of better understanding, I can rephrase your question the creation is sp perfect and well-designed which requires a perfect designer, then, who is the designer of designer? If you check the trains, cars are connected to each other and one car is pulling the one behind him. It goes on like until it comes to the car, the locomotive! Who is pulling it?

Creation cannot be the same kind with the creator. Now there is a palace designed very well and the question is we accept everything this palace like world cannot come into existence by itself, but who is the father and mother of the king? This is very simple and illogical thinking? If we attribute everything to prior cause – cause and effect for creation- then there will be a never –ending chain of creators. God is unique as a creator who is self-subsistent and does need a creator to exist just because creatures need a creator. This is a false approach. We never say a computer is by another by another computer.

God does not need causes and effects to create but God created causes and effects just for us, human beings, to understand his creation. Think about what would happen if there were no rain but still flowers had blossomed, vegetables and fruits were still grown? Causes and effects are the curtain of God's act on the earth , and as a requirement of test. The problem is that we are thinking with worldly conceptions and limited perceptions about God. So we are allowing ourselves to get drown in the swamp of illogical assumptions and questions.

37. Genie shows barred by Islam, clerics say

Comment #32691 by chamber on April 18, 2007 at 3:22 am

34. Comment #32482 by edge100 on April 17, 2007 at 6:39 am

We know that humans exist and that they can create computers. Thus, it is logical to conclude that a given computer is likely a human creation, although we cannot exclude the possibility that the computer may have formed spontaneously. But, given the proven existence of a creator, it is far more likely that the computer was manually created.

Dear edge,
First read entire article on the web page http://livingdinos.com/byebyevolution
This is the article I have ever read that explains God's creation scientifically. If you still do not get it, you can use your logic then to find the truth.

As for computers, you believe that computers have a builder because that makes sense and you see the computer assembler. With the same logic, how come you don't believe that computer like organism, thousands of creatures, animals plants, and human beings have no builder/creator? Just because we cannot see God now with our limited conceptions and eyes that can see the things in only three dimensions while there are 4th, 5th, 6th dimensions exist. I can't see something that does not mean that it does not exist. I don't see my mind but I know that I have it. You cannot judge creation with your eyes but you can figure out with your logic and reason.

38. Medical 'Miracles' Not Supported by Evidence

Comment #32670 by chamber on April 18, 2007 at 1:21 am

Again, and for the last time, Hitler had a circle of faith around God. So does the Catholic Church. And yes, there are good people who are religious, perhaps not because of it but in spite of it. And yes, there are bad atheists, not because of it but in spite of it. Not many atheists go around killing people in the name of atheism.Jesus also said in the Bible, that those who do not accept His reign should be brought before Him and slain. KGB? Nazi Death Squad? Biblical errancy is factual. Biblical holocausts are everywhere in the Bible. The last thing on this planet we need is a book espousing the killing of others under the auspices of some ghost. Yes, there is "love" in the Bible; in fact, one can find passages to support just about every viewpoint which then, of course, makes the writings virtually useless and of "no sense", therefore nonsense. There are no unicorns or flame throwing dragons--can't substitute dinosaurs either. Bats are not birds. On and on we could go.

Verses in holy books cover a foundation, time, and people who are addressed. If you don't read first verses and latter verses about the specific verses like you mentioned, plus, you are an atheist, there you, you can't get it. Not may believers go around either kill people in the name of jesus or God either. No heaven –based religion requires killing innocent people. Terrorism and all kind of killings have no religion, no nation and no race.
Just think about a school. There are 500 hundred students. One student is really bad, using drugs, bullying etc. Can you say that that school students are really all bad. Today millions of people believe in God. If there are some people killing some innocent people in the name of god, they are certainly not believers. Believing god means to be afraid of God for fear that in judgment day he will account for what he did in the world. Love is in all holy books. The way to see love in holy books comes through looking at it with love. If you look into it with love, you will feel and see love there. If you look at it with bias and prejudice, you will get what you wrote to me.

But I allow that the freedom to express one's views remains the best possible means to defeat dogma of any sort.
And evolution is not restaurant garbage; it is a very hard-won, exsquisite buffet that you are unfortunately never to taste.
The cardboard cut-outs of characters in the Bible with its simplistic, child-like explanations would never do for an enquirying mind. I have read the scriptures, front to back and also the varying interpretations; I invite you to do the same with evolutionary science--try Carl Sagan, as he writes beautifully.

If the evolution is an open buffet then we got a problem. We are still with the starters. How was the maker of the soup at the beginning? Who prepared it? DNA, Genes were just there like a lucky draw? If you have got a logical answer please write it to me. Otherwise you better not to write anything illogical , thinking about many people who might read the comments.

39. Medical 'Miracles' Not Supported by Evidence

Comment #32656 by chamber on April 17, 2007 at 11:34 pm

58. Comment #32475 by I'mNotAlone on April 17, 2007 at 6:14 am
It's nice to see Chamber in this forum. If you'll excuse the pun - it's no good spending all our time preaching to the converted. It would be great if we could get more people like Chamber to post in these forums and stimulate the debates.

Dear "I'm not alone"

If sarcasm is getting in the way, it is not a good sign. We do not need to be sarcastic. We are all discussing. Indeed the story of evolution started the stimulation already. I am just participating. I am not converted to anything by the way. Guessing games is not good.

God is not too easy answer. God is the only answer. Imagine that you are city designer. There will be a built a new city and you are arranging everything. The houses, subways, town gas, roads, railways, schools etc. You designed it and city was built beautifully. If one comes and says this city is built by chances. There was nothing at the beginning and there was only a piece of iron – it was just there. We do know how it came there- them that piece of Iron mutated into different irons by chances and natural selection, there you go cit is built up. How do you feel? Which one is easier? A designer or evolution? The same way the world is a city designed by God with servant like animals, cows, chickens, sheep, bees etc and factory like soil and waiter like trees with their arm-like branches?
I hope you understand it now. Understanding starts with seeing and feeling. Once you start seeing you will understand it.

Trying to comprehend, trying to question things.
Among my questions about religion, the foremost is about why there are so many different religions. Maybe Chamber could give his opinion on that?

It is believed that 124 thousand or more prophets came to the world as a messenger to people in different times and regions but they all invited people to believe in God and Judgment day. The prophets, Moses, Jesus, Mohammed (peace be upon them all) of Judaism Christianity and Islam are the latest ones but they all came from same heaven. Maybe today there are interpretation differences occur but it is the same God. In my heart, it does not matter what people believe in as long as they believe that God is the creator. When I hear any person saying that he or she believes in God, I become so happy without asking what religion he is following. Believing in something is really a treasure and that treasure is put ineach man's heart. But sometimes it is very deeply buried and covered with false beliefs like evolution.

40. Medical 'Miracles' Not Supported by Evidence

Comment #32653 by chamber on April 17, 2007 at 11:25 pm

If you have never been educated, I suggest you you study up on Biology and then go out into Nature (the real world as opposed to the closed world in the Church) examine the diversity of life on our planet, also dig around and examine fossils. Yes we are decended from molecules and small less organised life forms. This is a beautiful learning. And behold what we are now!

P.S.

Question the Scriptures of the Bible and see how false and ugly they are.

Dear Deimos

I have BA and MA degree on my major, but still it does not mean that one has been educated, who has a lot degree. Education comes from learning about truth and truth is the door of faith we can open with logic. When I look at the animals – thousand of animals – I see the beautiful creation and design in each of them., then I look at the flowers and small them feel them and admire them through their different colours and when I see the connection and cooperation between animals, plants human beings and sun, I see, learn and acknowledge that there must be creator who can see all the needs of creatures and meet their needs on time and very smoothly.
As for fossils thins, they are completely fossilized. Now scientists found that Darwinian fossils are a hoax. The fossils found in Kenya lately belongs to a human being like us and it dates back 2 million years. Please do not rely(lean) on fossils anymore, other wise they will fall apart totally.

To see ugly depends on how you look at it. If you look at with eyes of evolution you wouldn't like it.

41. Medical 'Miracles' Not Supported by Evidence

Comment #32423 by chamber on April 17, 2007 at 3:24 am

Chamber--if under the dictionary the term "miracle" means "surprising" or "remarkable" experience then I will grant that there are such miracles in nature, many with a rational explanation, many with yet unknown rational explanations, none with supernatural explanations because "supernatural", the other definition of miracle, has no evidence for its existence.

I myself know a lot of miracles that happened my friends so if you people see it and you say otherwise, who is the blind? What kind of evidence do you need? a chemistry formula so that you try in lab and you go out screaming "Euraka." Miracles can happen through your faith and logic and reason cannot help understand the miracles. Because with logic and reason you can open the door of science but the door of miracles can be opened by only your faith in God so you have no faith, it is quite normal that you don't understand. Even if somebody who is about to die, no hope,is suddenly up and walk out of the hospital in a very healty condition in ten minutes time, you would say this is magic or something the same phrase non-believers said to their prophets who performed a miracle to them. Times are changing but something still remains same.

Unless and until one can prove that supernatural events exist, it cannot and should not be used as an explanation. Faith means nothing. One can have faith in the ridiculous or the dangerous, or both. One can say Hitler had faith that destroying Jews and non-Aryan races would restore the true God-born race to its rightful place; one could say that Islamic faith is restored by the destruction of infidels, that the earth then would have its true religion (as all of the Abrahamic religions believe). Faith is nothing but one's desires be fulfilled, most times nastily so. When King Leopold and the Catholic Church ravaged the Congolese people, the faithful Catholics spoke of the murder of children as not to be despised for the people were to have faith that their souls were now within the arms of Jesus. Faith stinks.

Stink comes from bad smell not from faith. Personalities of believers of any faith can be variable. So you tell me that all atheists are really good guys but Christians Jews and Muslims are bad. This is not reasonable. There more than 5 billion people who has a faith in God in different ways, how come you pin all believers jews, christians and muslims for something they would never do. As for Jesus Christ, he is the one who will come back again to the world and establish peace so you better read his sayings in Bible deeply later talk about it, otherwise, spreading something On jesus Christ will make your mouth stinky.

However, I must say that there are many who sit in mental institutions who have "heard" or "seen" God with such utter faith as to be consumed by it. Others have faith that they are made of glass and therfore are not to be touched. Some, not in institutions, have abiding faith in Satan.
With faith, there can be no right or wrong because how can you measure faith if it is unmeasurable, if it is relative. By deeds? I have history to see how faith's deeds have been monstrous.

With faith there is right or wrong, Faith is a circle drwn by God and our deeds are either the pillars of our paradise or hell. History are full of good examples of beleievers as well. It is all up to what you want to see. If you buy a kilo of tomatoes, there will be certainly some rooten ones at the bottom.

Chamber's faith is seen only through his/her eyes, as is all who use faith to see the world. Always, their brand of faith is the correct one--how else could it be.
To accept the world only through faith brings one around to those who are insane. Much of what Chamber says is a word salad and as I have said in other comments, once the mind virus enters up pop the same merry-go-rounds of nonsense--exactly like the infected computer.

If mine is a word of salad then evolution will be a a big restaurant garbage can where darwin is trying fix a dish out of the mixed leftovers.
I guess at least mine is edible. Nonsense comes out of having no sense. If my writing is not reasonable I give up, but it is all commonsense that we are surely created by God not come form a worm in the sea. As for your computer thing, do not push your luck, because computers are not a production of evolution neither are we.

42. Pope says science too narrow to explain creation

Comment #32377 by chamber on April 17, 2007 at 1:10 am

I suggest that you find a copy of "The Selfish Gene"... preferably printed in your Mother tongue, which quite clearly isnt English, and inwardly digest it.

Thank you for your advice. I already read Selfish genes, blind witchmaker -sorry it was a typo blindwatchmaker(!) and God the delusion in English. I read and I got lost in the jungle of llogical and unscientific stories, figures, schemes, etc. I can give you a web page you can check yourself what science says about genes. It is quite good English with logical explanations.

Cryptozoology, Living Dinosaurs, and Origins
http://livingdinos.com/byebyevolution

If you still don't get it, I will try to explain it to you again in a more simple way.

If its still beyond your wit to grasp the concept of evolution then perhaps you had better leave your daughters education to others more fit for the purpose.

Don't worry about my kid daughter. Kids are much more logical than adults since they think clearly and logically. The problem is with us. We just close our eyes in a sunny day and we insist that it is dark. We cannot see it.

43. Pope says science too narrow to explain creation

Comment #32372 by chamber on April 17, 2007 at 12:57 am

Re: Comment #32159 by chamber

"Please address my intelligence and logic."

Ummm...that might be difficult, seeing as you possess neither.

A real life story

One atheist and one scholar were living in a period of time.
Atheist gathered all the people and said,
'Can you see the moon?
People said' yes we can
'Can you see the sun?
People said' yes we can
'Can you see the mountains?
People said' yes we can
'Can you see GOD?
People said' no we can't

So there is no God!

Scholar gathered all the people and said,
'Can you see the moon?
People said' yes we can
'Can you see the sun?
People said' yes we can
'Can you see the mountains?
People said' yes we can
'Can you see this atheist mind?
People said' no we can"t

so this guy (atheist) has no mind. He is mindless.

44. Genie shows barred by Islam, clerics say

Comment #32367 by chamber on April 17, 2007 at 12:39 am

Comment #32202 by Logicel on April 16, 2007 at
I see our Sunday drive-by godder is still hanging out. Odd that the neutered Spagmonster vanished, vowing to return, and lo and behold, a miracle--the awaited apparition of Chamber is amidst our heathen, brighty bright persons.

Here's hoping that chamber will have a glorious brighty, bright day!

I had a bright day when i read your comment. How did you learn to write like that? I know it is not Shakespear. Sorry I have to go build my computer. No wait! Do you know the phone number of evolution. It can do it right. Good God! Why didn't I think it before?
Me: Hello is that Mr Evolution?
Evolution: speaking
Me: I have got a computer to build. Can you do fix it?
Evolution. I am sorry I can't fix the things.
Me: But they say you can do it.
Evolution: I have no mind no wisdom no knowledge. How can i do that. Be logical. I am already pissed off with Darwin. It evolved - sorry - involved my name in everything. I lost my face. Even his funny followers took me up to space to fix the sun, the planets and solar systems. I really feel so bad. I hope God can forgive me.

So are you saying that the mountains of corroborating evidence gathered over the past 150 years, that all conclusively support Darwinism beyond any rational doubt, are a figment of everyone's imagination?

Wow – that's some global conspiracy theory you've got going there.

I know about global warming but i did not know that Darwin's story is global. Today scientists found the fabricated fossils and skulls already done by Darwinian guys to prove the story. If you need i can quote the news for you. Today fossils in Kenya, that belongs to two million years ago and exactly the same bone structure as we have today. Please do not try to fool the readers. It is not worth it. Truth has a habit; it always comes out.

45. Genie shows barred by Islam, clerics say

Comment #32360 by chamber on April 17, 2007 at 12:18 am

Wow. I would love to know what goes through the mind of someone who cannot see such fantastic irony. This is beautiful stuff.

Mind? What mind?

Say, is that the "Chamber of Horrors"? ;-)
Steve

No the chamber of genes, They are playing in a pond happily waiting for to find cell to hop in. Would you like to join them?

46. Genie shows barred by Islam, clerics say

Comment #32359 by chamber on April 17, 2007 at 12:16 am

First you can read my quotations about genes and i am sure it will silence you and your troll-like imaginary genes.

Second, I agree that if you saw a glass of water sitting on a table, you'd think someone put it there; this is an entirely reasonable statement. But WHY is it reasonable? Because you know that human beings exist and are capable of filling a glass with hot water.

So genes are the intelligent creatures that are capable of keep producing thousands kinds of animals and plants. What a lovely copy machine working on its own and no needing a user. Please refer to my quotations. Don'T try hard. Take it easy. You will be there if you speak to your kids because kids are more reasonable than adults. I brought a small worm to my house and asked my daughter to greet her ancestor. She looked at me and said, " Come on father. Don't be funny. Who is going to be so dummy that worms are out great great great.... grandfather?

This is a reiteration of the 'Watchmaker Argument', which is invalid, in part, because it presupposes the existence of a 'watchmaker' (or glass-filler, if you'd prefer). Human beings exist and can fill glasses (or make watches); 'design' of life cannot be inferred by the same logic because whether a 'designer' exists has not be established. Circular logic is never valid, no matter how hard you try!

Logic and reason are the keys to the door of truth. If one says something or proposes something illogical, we use our logic and reason, in any case, to check. No answer to my comments or questions does not mean that logic is invalid, but it means that logic does not fit in what it is said. As we see quoted articles, Science as well definetely proves that DNA RNA need a designer. If we are against science and logic then we are in delusional world playing with ourselves only.
Watchmakers are not blind but the one who writes blind watchmakers is blind.

47. Genie shows barred by Islam, clerics say

Comment #32355 by chamber on April 16, 2007 at 11:53 pm

Well, presumably like all other things that have taken place, it arose as a consequence of the laws of physics. In this case, in the 'primordial soup' of organic molecules, a chance sequence of reactions formed a molecule with the property of self-replication. (Such spontaneous formation of self-replicating molecules has been observed in the lab, and the scientists are fairly certain God wasn't doing it.) This initial 'gene' then passed on its 'genetic' material to future 'generations', and through natural selection of chance beneficial mutations the lineage evolved the sophisticated copying mechanism we see today.

That do ya? Or do you have a better suggestion?

Yes I have. Read the quotattions and read the whole article if you still have doubt. Still you couldn't get it, get back to me.

Quotation#1
•If you think of DNA as the cell's library, and RNA as a book that can be checked out of the library, one kind of RNA checks out information from the DNA to line up left handed amino acids in the precise order for a particular protein.
•The amino acids are then linked together by a "molecular machine" made of another kind of RNA and several proteins. Each cell has many kinds of molecular machines.
Because no machine exists that did not have an intelligent inventor, each of the cell's machines is more evidence for an intelligent Creator.
After having taught for 40 or 50 years that life began when amino acids linked together in organic soup in the ocean and formed proteins, atheists are abandoning this claim because amino acids:
•Do not concentrate in the ocean. They disperse and break down.
•Outside of cells, amino acids will not link together in nature to form proteins, not even when scientists help them by buying all left-handed amino acids from a chemical supply house to make the perfect organic soup.
•Proteins could not get together with DNA in a primordial soup because DNA does not form outside of cells either. Scientists can't even make DNA in the laboratory.

Quotation#2
In all modern organisms, DNA contains in encrypted form the instructions for the manufacture of proteins. More specifically, encoded within DNA is the exact order in which amino acids, selected at each step from 20 distinct varieties should be strung together to form all of the organism's proteins."5
Information never develops apart from intelligence, yet cells contain huge amounts of information. I believe this is the most important single evidence that life came from the mind of an intelligent Creator rather than from dumb chemicals.

Quotation#3
All known languages, alphabets and codes, as well as the information spoken or written in them, originated in minds. The faith of the atheist that the first life was an exception is contrary to all known evidence.
Some have argued that monkeys beating at random on a typewriter or computer keyboard might eventually produce a few recognizable words, which would be information. How many words would the monkeys type if no one had designed any alphabet or keyboard or computer, and they had to beat on the dirt?
It's hard to be an atheist. One must have faith that, contrary to all evidence, not just a few words but huge amounts of usable information, and the language and code with which the information was written, popped up by themselves.

Quoted from Cryptozoology, Living Dinosaurs, and Origins
http://livingdinos.com/byebyevolution

48. Einstein & Faith

Comment #32170 by chamber on April 16, 2007 at 4:08 am

Hey you guys,

Is it you again? You can read my answer on genies thread. Enjoy!

We appear to have another angry xtian poster in chamber. I found a couple of comments on another thread that made no sense to me at all.

Thousand kinds of plants and animals came from a worm. Hmm That makes sense. Please Nobody will buy it. You created a delusional world where you write each other and satify your evolutionary thinking. Please reason with yourself. One simple/difficult question: How do you explain the soul? Please do not tell me that there is no soul etc with self-indulging answers, check the scientific magazines. Or I can help you out.

Chamber seems to be baiting. She/he is going to distract us and is fairly belligerent as well. I did put a query to her/him on the genie thread before I accessed this one. Oxygen is precious, I think this one may be a waste.

I am not ready to fight or something. I am just trying to be reasonable with you guys. As for oxygen, my logic is getting in the way again, how is one of the perfect connections between trees that work like an oxygen factories that receive carbon dioxide and produces oxygen with the help of sunlight and human beings provided? Selfish Genes, natural selection on the earth and sieve in the space, or our ancestors, worms would think that Oh my God, my grandchildren will need Oxygen, I gotto do something. How can I make a sun? Where is the recipe(I know it is funny.)This is what people feel about evolution.

Chamber, if this is what you are attempting, could you please find a more congenial site to make your posts? I can assure you that you will be ignored and/or trolled if you keep posting the way you appear to be.

I am not enjoying myself when I write but my reason and intelligence does, since it is insulted. Like I told you it is all up to you. To ignore comes from ignorance and being offensive is a way of weakness when you have nothing to do. As you see rather than answering my questions you started being offensive. Anyway I am able to write each comment for each of the articles not because I am talented or something, anybody can do it, you know why just because our reason is getting in the way against evolution story.

Have a nice day

David Chamber from reason chamber

49. Genie shows barred by Islam, clerics say

Comment #32165 by chamber on April 16, 2007 at 3:36 am

What on earth are you on about. I'm sorry but I can't understand what you are asking or why. I don't comprehend any relevance to this thread quite frankly.

Okay I will be frank. What I am asking is how the first gene came out? If I see a glass of hot water on my dining table, I would figure out that somebody put it there. This is what my reason and intelligence makes me think.

Are you attempting to goad posters? Or just having a bit of unintelligle fun?

If you read all my comments you will see that how reasonable my questions and comments are. Evolution theory started it goading reason and reason is defending himself against this make up story.

If you look back over these threads, I doubt whether you will find any poster afraid of talking. Why we all go on like veritable drains. Nothing seems to shut us up. Except disinterest, of course.

It is all up to you whether you are interested in or not somebody will anyway. If you keep quite I understand because my comments and questions are addressing mind and reason. And if your reasoning cannot find an answer, that's quite all right with me.
By the way if my comments are reaching out somebody out there and I am sure they will, I would serve my purpose; to prove that evolution theory is a delusional story, just a story which even the schools took out of their curriculum.

Be a little more understandable please

I am all understanding and because I can think and I can reason with God's creation.

Cheers
Take care

50. Pope says science too narrow to explain creation

Comment #32159 by chamber on April 16, 2007 at 3:07 am

Chambers: I have encountered a few of your posts now, such as in the Einstein thread, and what is clear is that not only do you have no understanding of science but you have even less understanding of Evolution.

I did not know that I have a fan. But this is the reality and reality hurts. I cannot keep my mouth shut because I would burst a laughter when I start reading evolution. So far nobody could challenge Dawkings and his writings and now I am challenging Mr Dawkins with all my comments and rather than asking my mouth shut please give me an answer to my questions. We are just discussing right? How am I going to make my mind, logic and my eight year daughter that the worms are our ancestors? Please help me out here. Please do not answer me with a lot of scheme jungles or picture jungles. Please address my intelligence and logic.

Give it a rest man for there is an adage and to paraphrase, better to keep ones mouth shut and simply be thought an idiot than to open it and prove it beyond doubt. Unfortunately, in opening yours you have simply proven how true an adage it is.

I promise I will keep my mouth shut for the sake of wisdom I am not adamant if you answer my question.

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