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Comments by Vinelectric


1. VOICES OF SCIENCE - Available Now on DVD

Comment #211255 by Vinelectric on July 15, 2008 at 4:52 pm

And forgot to say, whilst the English are fond of the rhetorical trick of empahsizing a subject by deliberately mentioning it in a disparaging manner e.g I was a bit confused (meaning very confused) or He was a bit rude (well if that were true then it wouldn't have bothered you at wall, wouldn't it?). Dawkins sometimes achieves the exact opposite when being dismissive of a subject by acknowleding its importance in a very limited way.

As an example, Weinberg states how disappointing that the Muslims have abandoned science starting around the 12th century given their role in...(I assume he means their positive role in advancing science).

Dawkins interrupts to do two things: first he states a fact "their role in preserving Greek science". The other thing is that, by intervening to end the coversation there and then he is effectively excluding any other interpretation of what Weinberg ought to say: their additional role in actually contributing to that science as well (which is also a fact!).

Maybe I'm being a bit paranoid but some people are so measured in their speech and so carefull with their choice of words it makes you wonder whether the Prof was making a statement by making an under-statement!

2. VOICES OF SCIENCE - Available Now on DVD

Comment #211243 by Vinelectric on July 15, 2008 at 4:32 pm

I'm really embarrased as I was unable to understand a lot of what Weinberg was saying and would apprecaite some help. Dawkins appeared to follow comfortably when I failed completely to grasp some of the concepts being discussed!


1. What does the term multiverse mean exactly?

The chaotic inflation model postulates that our bang is one possible event out of many outcomes of random fluctuations of some primordial field. "Successful" outcomes lead to rapid inflations and failed ones go nowhere. Thus a bang is one of mutually exclusive outcomes of the fluctuations of that source field.

Thus one would understand a multiverse to be a term referring to the set of all possible universes not many universes "in parallell" as some cosmologists such as Max Tegmark suggest.

http://www.wintersteel.com/files/ShanaArticles/multiverse.pdf

2. What persuades Weinberg that dark matter is fine tuned?

He said that theoretically derived values for the vaccum energy are much larger than observed ones. I understand that the non-measured contributions must be equally impressive and comparable in magnitude in order to cancel the predicted excess and leave us with the tiny observed value.

However that difference can not be explained by contributions from the field energy at shorter wave length. You'd expect that calculating at smaller lengths, for the same field, would yield a more accurate answer. Not come up with a an answer of similar magnitude but negative value sufficient to "cancel" out your first prediction.

What exactly is cancelling the theoretical values?

3. Children Are Naturally Prone To Be Empathic And Moral

Comment #209577 by Vinelectric on July 12, 2008 at 4:51 pm

However, when the children saw animations of someone intentionally hurt,..


Whoever granted this study the ethical approval needs more training in research ethics.

4. [UPDATED] Venomous Snakes, Slippery Eels and Harun Yahya

Comment #209392 by Vinelectric on July 12, 2008 at 5:34 am

Fanusi,mordacious, Goldy, Bonzai and epeeist.

On the Capitalism vs Socialism discussion.

The way I see it, what makes life in first world countries so attractive (especially to immigrants from the Middle East) is because they have the wealth to fund social security establishments. Ask any random British person how the NHS has transformed the lives of the working class in the last 60 years. The system is costly and far from perfect but is still financially sustainable and any party that threatens to abandon it knows that it would be committing political suicide.

5. [UPDATED] Venomous Snakes, Slippery Eels and Harun Yahya

Comment #209178 by Vinelectric on July 11, 2008 at 6:45 pm

Fanusi Khiyal

I hope that "Averroes really belongs to us" was a joke.

I'm sure that one day your knoweldge will match your rhetoric but for the time being I've decided it's wiser to let the wave of trolls ebb away before we resume our quarrels (at full throttle, that is).

Till then let me tell you that we are where we are today because of a collective human effort. Only ignorance and arrogance can explain why anyone would want to think otherwise. It is true that Western civilisation has overtaken all the others and leapt millenia ahead, much to the benefit of everyone. However, belittling the contribution of any scholar, whether they be Arab or not, to the establishment of the scientific base that allowed the subsequent European exponential upstroke to happen is dishonest to say the least.

Just log on to Britannica and in ten minutes you'll learn that the Andaleusian scholars wern't content with just transmission (as if that is something to be condemned) but have made significant advancements in mathematics (decimal numeration, algebra), navigation systems and even anticipated Johannes Kepler in modelling planetary orbits.

Don't take my word for it, start with these links but do not let any stretch of imagination tell you that that part of the world played a petty role in helping this species pull itself by the bootstrap and deliver itself from the woes of disabling ignorance.

http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/14885/algebra

http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/367982/Maslama-al-Majriti

http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/557573/Spain/70380/Culture-of-Muslim-Spain#ref=ref587430

6. [UPDATED] Venomous Snakes, Slippery Eels and Harun Yahya

Comment #208905 by Vinelectric on July 11, 2008 at 11:16 am

Joe Morreale

TRUTH DOES INDEED HURT, AND BADLY TOO!


Ouch!

7. An Irishman's Diary

Comment #208869 by Vinelectric on July 11, 2008 at 10:28 am

snoov

What noble meaning?

8. An Irishman's Diary

Comment #208864 by Vinelectric on July 11, 2008 at 10:24 am

What should we say instead, "address ourselves to the issue"? (as in direct our attention to the issue).

I'm confident that that meaning of the word "address" will make its way to the dictionaries sooner than expressions such as "return back" and "ain't nothing" will.

9. [UPDATED] Venomous Snakes, Slippery Eels and Harun Yahya

Comment #208591 by Vinelectric on July 11, 2008 at 4:04 am

clearmind

You're certainly not doing your religion any favour so I suggest you leave for the sake of your own kind. Take this embarrassing forgery as an example, are you trying to persuade us that Aa'isha was 18 when she married the prophet? (..So Aisha was born in 605.
She got married in 623 with the prophet. )

Have you no never heard of these famous hadiths?

Sahih Bukhari Volume 5, Book 58, Number 236:

Narrated Hisham's father:

Khadija died three years before the Prophet departed to Medina. He stayed there for two years or so and then he married 'Aisha when she was a girl of six years of age, and he consumed that marriage when she was nine years old.


Sahih Muslim Book 008, Number 3310:

'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported: Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) married me when I was six years old, and I was admitted to his house when I was nine years old.


Sahih Muslim Book 008, Number 3311:

'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported that Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) married her when she was seven years old, and he was taken to his house as a bride when she was nine, and her dolls were with her; and when he (the Holy Prophet) died she was eighteen years old.


Bukhari and Muslim, can't get more authentic than that. Now the stereotype of the ignorant, stupid and dishonest Muslim is forever imprinted in the conscience of every guest on this forum.

You don't happen to be an undercover of Jihadwatch, or are you? ;-).

10. Bisexual Species: Unorthodox Sex in the Animal Kingdom

Comment #208573 by Vinelectric on July 11, 2008 at 3:34 am

Not sure I'll be quoting this article in my occasional debates with religious folk.

I could be missing something very important here: if animals mostly engage in homosexual activity under certain stressful situations (captivity, social tensions...etc) then that makes the behaviour "abnormal", doesn't it?

Human beings seem unique as some do have a true "homosexual identity". Not in response to stress or what have you.

11. [UPDATED] Venomous Snakes, Slippery Eels and Harun Yahya

Comment #207409 by Vinelectric on July 9, 2008 at 5:25 pm

BillySands

One more usefull link on therapeutic retroviridae.

http://www.oncolyticsbiotech.com/

12. [UPDATED] Venomous Snakes, Slippery Eels and Harun Yahya

Comment #207406 by Vinelectric on July 9, 2008 at 5:19 pm

BillySands


Creotards, please take note of ERVs


Great presentation.

Here is how we've made use of retroviruses to deliberately infect cancer patients and selectively kill neoplastic cells or make them more susceptible to adjuvant radiotherapy. We're carrying Phase II trials in the UK and, I believe, in Canada.


http://www.cancerhelp.org.uk/trials/trials/trial.asp?=&trialno=10830

Calilasseia

Thanks for the link. What happens in the US should concern everyone.

13. [UPDATED] Venomous Snakes, Slippery Eels and Harun Yahya

Comment #207398 by Vinelectric on July 9, 2008 at 4:46 pm

Bonzai

The same effect can be seen back home with conservative religious groups being unable to cope with the slowly modernising majority. They protest that society has forsaken its (religious) roots and the frustration begets extremism.

Unfortunately, understanding how/why such movements emerge, does not make it any easier on us to figure out how to keep them in check. That psychological nostalgia effect will always persist to some extent in societies which attempt to escape from traditionally inflexible social systems such as those of early Islam.

14. [UPDATED] Venomous Snakes, Slippery Eels and Harun Yahya

Comment #207387 by Vinelectric on July 9, 2008 at 3:49 pm

Steve Zara

For some reason medicine is a different matter, and all kinds of craziness turns up.


Like you said, (para-phrasing) if it works then it probably is true.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1032916/Pensioner-goes-knife--using-self-hypnosis-pain-relief.html

15. [UPDATED] Venomous Snakes, Slippery Eels and Harun Yahya

Comment #207385 by Vinelectric on July 9, 2008 at 3:43 pm

Gregg Townsnend

That pool of fundamentalism, borne in the harsh deserts of the Middle East, constantly feeds the immigrant populations in Europe and North America. A side effect of strong cohesive family bonds with those "left behind".

16. [UPDATED] Venomous Snakes, Slippery Eels and Harun Yahya

Comment #207379 by Vinelectric on July 9, 2008 at 3:37 pm

al-rawandi

b-yedin wa inuna al-Mawsa'un


Minor adjustment: b-aydin wa inna la-moosi'un

Have a look at this (in Arabic):

http://quran.al-islam.com/Tafseer/DispTafsser.asp?l=arb&taf=TABARY&nType=1&nSora=51&nAya=47

moosi'un is derived from "si'ah" (seen-ayin-closed teh). From the phrse "zu si'ah" meaning "capable". So it literally means: we have the capability (of doing so).

17. [UPDATED] Venomous Snakes, Slippery Eels and Harun Yahya

Comment #207373 by Vinelectric on July 9, 2008 at 3:31 pm

Al

Yes and Yes. I'm having a memory block right now but can't think of a word for "expand" different from the word we use for "widen".

Everytime I struggle with a Hebrew word, even though I'm a native Semitic language speaker, I feel embarrased that some native English speakers like yourself seem to have an effortless command of a language as alien to them as Arabic. You're a "Pentium 10" as we sometimes say.

18. [UPDATED] Venomous Snakes, Slippery Eels and Harun Yahya

Comment #207363 by Vinelectric on July 9, 2008 at 3:16 pm

Gregg Townsend

A combination of ignorance, mis-trust in whatever is "Western" and harsh living conditions (true for most of the Middle East).

That keeps the pool of backwardness and superstition alive. Imagine saying to the heat-struck, financially deprived average Sudanese that you want them to hear what a Western Sceintist's criticism of a book that promises them eternal bliss in the after life.

They'd rather play deaf than undermine the only worldview they've known since early childhood.

19. [UPDATED] Venomous Snakes, Slippery Eels and Harun Yahya

Comment #207354 by Vinelectric on July 9, 2008 at 3:02 pm

al-rawandi

The language and sentence structure of such books makes them impenetrable to the layity. A lot of what ordinary Muslims know about the Quran is hearsay.

One of my favourite examples is 51:47. Here the phrase "wa inna la-musi'oon" sounds like "and verily we are expanding it. Muslims will tell you that the verse means: And the skies, we have built with might and indeed we are (we will be) expanding them.

If you actually look up the tafseer you'll notice that the phrase actually means "and indeed we are capable" not "we are expanding it". Even for a fluent speaker of modern standard Arabic the difference is subtle. If the author of the verse meant to say "expanding" he/she should have used "mu-wassi'oon" not "musi'oon".

I wonder what ertu has to say about this.

20. [UPDATED] Venomous Snakes, Slippery Eels and Harun Yahya

Comment #207342 by Vinelectric on July 9, 2008 at 2:38 pm

ertu

Qu'ran 21:30 CREATOR OF BIG BANG

"Do not the unbelievers see how the heavens and the earth were joined together, before We cloved them assunder? We made every living thing out of water. WILL THEY THEN NOT BELIEVE?"


There was no "Heaven" and "Earth" at the Big Bang. Ibn Abbas gives a different meaning to the words "ratqq" and "fatqq". Look up Ibn Katheer, according to him Ibn Abbas interprets this as "barren/dry" and "made fertile/wet" respectively.

Furthermore, why does the Qur'aan speak of seven heavens? Why does the next verse claim that mountains prevent earthquakes? (Ibn Katheer, Al Tabari)

Can you not see that the author of the Qur'aan doesn't really know what they're talking about?

21. [UPDATED] Venomous Snakes, Slippery Eels and Harun Yahya

Comment #206614 by Vinelectric on July 8, 2008 at 2:46 pm

qomak

I think you have every reason to ask: "and so what, it's all bollocks". It's just that I have an interest in the language and really do care to figure out what the man was talking about. Out of mere interest.

22. [UPDATED] Venomous Snakes, Slippery Eels and Harun Yahya

Comment #206596 by Vinelectric on July 8, 2008 at 2:10 pm

al-rawandi

Mohammad was really pushing his luck with this story. Anyways, where's Fanusi when you need him? An uncompromising and relentless attitude is the only possible antidote to the surge in the troll activity on this site. (No disrespect intended, for a change !)

23. [UPDATED] Venomous Snakes, Slippery Eels and Harun Yahya

Comment #206595 by Vinelectric on July 8, 2008 at 2:02 pm

Paula Kirby

I have a theory (theory as in feeling, not theory as in evolution!) that the seriously religious have a deep inner NEED to believe their myths


Nietzche had an interesting observation about Nihilism (from the wikipedia entry on the subject:

Nietzsche asserts that this nihilism is a result of valuing "higher", "divine" or "meta-physical" things (such as God), that do not in turn value "base", "human" or "earthly" things.

The believer's will is subverted to the point where he/she sees no other direction in life apart from that prescirbed to them in their texts. I know the feeling exactly. Years of intensive subjection to texts that threaten torture in the grave, a certain degree of exposure to Hell fire...etc can paralyse your intellect. Whatever's left of it is invested into affirming the only worldview you've known in life. Yo feel that, for better or worse, if you lose it your whole world would collapse around you and you wouldn't know what to do with yourself.

Yes I do agree there is a "need" to believe the myth but that in itself may result from wishfull belief in a blissfull afterlife (e.g the more lenient forms of Christianity) or deep and insufferable terror as in the case of Islam.

24. [UPDATED] Venomous Snakes, Slippery Eels and Harun Yahya

Comment #206570 by Vinelectric on July 8, 2008 at 1:27 pm

qomack and al-rawandi (may find this interesting).


On Zul-Qarnain's useless story. For the sake of intellectual honesty (you can check al Tubrusi's interpretation) that verse was mis-tranlated by Yusuf Ali.

Maghrib Ash-Shams has several meanings:
1. Literal: the setting place of the sun

or

2. Allegorical: Mthe westernmost point in the land (reached by Zul-Qarnain)

or

3. as Al Tubrusi (d 1153 AD) describes in Al Bayan Fi Tafseer Al Quran: the westernmost land inhabited by human beings.

Same for Mashriq Ash-Shams

No one can be sure which meaning Mohammad intended but it could equally be any of the above.

25. [UPDATED] Venomous Snakes, Slippery Eels and Harun Yahya

Comment #206557 by Vinelectric on July 8, 2008 at 1:10 pm

Joe Morreale

SCIENCEISLAM.COM - ADMISSIONS OF NON-MUSLIMS SCIENTISTS THEMSELVES WHO LEARNED ARABIC BEFORE CONFIRMING THAT IT MUST INDEED BE OF DIVINE ORIGIN.


Name one scientific fact mentioned in the Quran that helped us cure a disease or advance civilisation in any meaningfull way.

26. [UPDATED] Venomous Snakes, Slippery Eels and Harun Yahya

Comment #206544 by Vinelectric on July 8, 2008 at 1:02 pm

al-rawandi

Apparently the cradle of semitic languages could well be East Africa. We probably invented that shit!

http://www.indiana.edu/~arabic/arabic_history.htm

27. [UPDATED] Venomous Snakes, Slippery Eels and Harun Yahya

Comment #205902 by Vinelectric on July 7, 2008 at 9:00 pm

Goldy

I remember now, it was Dan Barker's debate with Rajabli (Part One) posted on youtube. That was a good one.

28. [UPDATED] Venomous Snakes, Slippery Eels and Harun Yahya

Comment #205896 by Vinelectric on July 7, 2008 at 8:54 pm

Goldy

I wouldn't use the "Quran says : flat Earth" argument.

79:30 says : And the earth, moreover he hath made egg-shaped. The verb Daha-ha indeed means to mould into the shape of an egg. It is still currently in use in Libyan colloquial Arabic. A Dahy-ya, in their accent, means an egg.

Anyhow as I heard someone say: if you throw a lot of spaghetti on the wall, some of it will eventually stick.

29. [UPDATED] Venomous Snakes, Slippery Eels and Harun Yahya

Comment #205888 by Vinelectric on July 7, 2008 at 8:46 pm

ertu

He it is Who brought you into being and made for you the ears and the eyes and the hearts: little is it that you give thanks.


Thanks for what? I never asked to be created and I know (from the Quran) that I was not created for my own sake but rather to live as a slave for a worship-hungry master. If that were the case and I were consulted before I was made then, given a taste of what to come (the punishment of the grave, the hair thin sirat..etc), I probably would've said "no, thanks!".

In order for an eye to see, all of its parts have to co-exist and work in harmony.


Unfortunately this is a good example of how complexity of design compromises endurance. It is evidence for a designer who has his limitations. Other organs such as the skin or liver can withstand the wear and tear (chemical insult in the case of the latter) and be able to either function normally or even regenerate in full. However they are not a complex in structure as the eye.

By the way, you know that people can see without their lenses or even without colour perception. So it is strictly not true that all components of the eye have to work in harmony for them to be useful.

30. [UPDATED] Venomous Snakes, Slippery Eels and Harun Yahya

Comment #205861 by Vinelectric on July 7, 2008 at 8:27 pm

ertu

Darwinists Darwin lied to you.


The theory of evolution was arrived at by two indepenent observers at the time. Darwin travelled the world collecting evidence to back his claims. It was not a "heavenly revelation" that he conjured up in a cave and asked people to take for granted (or else).

His theory has now been expanded and modified on the basis of our knowledge of the genetic code which was completely unknown to him. No one follows Darwin to the letter as apostles follow their prophet. What we accept, we accept on evidence. No scientist, not even Darwin, is above the law of scientific scrutiny.

Why not read more on the subject matter from a specialist in the field before committing yourself to parroting Yahya? Start with a popular science books such as Dawkins' Blind Watchmaker then work your way up through the literature.

31. [UPDATED] Venomous Snakes, Slippery Eels and Harun Yahya

Comment #205846 by Vinelectric on July 7, 2008 at 8:15 pm

God has sealed up their hearts and hearing and over their eyes is a blindfold. They will have a terrible punishment.


That is unacceptable. The key phrase is: terrible punishment.The Quran makes a good case for a terrorist deity, desperate to be worshiped or else... You get the impression that Allah is powerfull but doesn't deserve half the respect it demands.

And by the way visit to any cancer ward will kick Allah out of your head once and for all.

32. Churches' secret talks to stop gay surge

Comment #205473 by Vinelectric on July 7, 2008 at 10:27 am

Well,

I've always joked that the condemnation of homosexuality in "revealed" texts is so out of touch with human nature it's evidence that the origin of these books must be "alien" to the world we live in!

33. Prayer refusal pupils 'disciplined'

Comment #204790 by Vinelectric on July 5, 2008 at 6:41 pm

I'm glad this is coming to light. This should attract interest from the government authorities and hopefully result in a legally bounding regulation of what goes on inside religious class.

The problem doesnt' end there. The kids could still be terrorised at home by introducing the concept of eternal damnation at a young age. The crazy thing is that the parents would be thinking that they're doing the children a great service!

34. Tablet Ignites Debate on Messiah and Resurrection

Comment #204782 by Vinelectric on July 5, 2008 at 6:27 pm

So it turns out this is the year 2108, not 2008. How interesting.

35. Sharia law 'could have UK role'

Comment #204575 by Vinelectric on July 5, 2008 at 9:33 am

More Fanusi Khiyal

I guess if 'reactionary' means a concern for human rights, then I am reactionary.


Aha, I'm impressed. But then...

You wrote this on October 12, #78439

and then they can enjoy visiting a radioactive crater where Mecca used to be.


C'mon, not even Ayaan Hirsi Ali, a victim of the nastiest and darkest side of the form of Islam that raises eyebrows even in "Khartoum", never resorted to using such language. Why should you? If you're THAT concerned then I'd rather not know about it !!

36. Sharia law 'could have UK role'

Comment #204568 by Vinelectric on July 5, 2008 at 9:08 am

Fanusi

Ah, you mean how informed you were about slavery in the Sudan? Informed like that?


The devil is in the details.

We were talking about slavery in Khartoum city. If you keep confusing a city in one part of the country with a region in the South-West about 1000 km away I have no choice but to conclude you haven't a clue what you're talking about.

I can back up my points with a stack of research that Certain People have never been able to refute.


At least some of us know the language or have spent some time there, lived among many to testify not all are terrorism freaks.


I'll take your "research" seriously if you weren't so one-track minded. I don't know what information you hold but goodness-me your'e shallow and slippery.

37. Muslims outraged at police advert featuring cute puppy sitting in policeman's hat

Comment #204322 by Vinelectric on July 4, 2008 at 6:08 pm

Stryer

It's 02:07 AM local time. Have a good night everyone.

38. Sharia law 'could have UK role'

Comment #204320 by Vinelectric on July 4, 2008 at 6:06 pm

Stryer

It's 2 am Local time. Can't force my eyes open. Sorry.

39. Sharia law 'could have UK role'

Comment #204319 by Vinelectric on July 4, 2008 at 6:05 pm

Goldy

In fact battery is prescribed in the Hadith if children refuse to pray at aged 10. The danger of faith schools is that such psychological subversion, starting at the tender age of six , will go unchecked.

40. Muslims outraged at police advert featuring cute puppy sitting in policeman's hat

Comment #204317 by Vinelectric on July 4, 2008 at 5:53 pm

Stryer

I'm now bored with this thread. Please post your comments on the "Sharia Law" one.

41. Muslims outraged at police advert featuring cute puppy sitting in policeman's hat

Comment #204316 by Vinelectric on July 4, 2008 at 5:52 pm

Stryer


Could you explain why you do not see Islam as much of a threat as these guys, if this is indeed the case?



I still live in the Muslim Middle East and can see which stereotypes are true of the average Muslim and which are a bit over the top. I'd like to share my first-hand experience to allow us to collectively make an informed (as opposed to a "reactionary") decisions on how to tackle this nightmare.


I'm beginning to witness less fact and more paranoia expressed on this forum. Nothing is going to stop me from pointing out what is a true representation of the community that I live amongs and what isn't. The keywords are "honesty" and "consistensy". This is the same principle that forced me to reject the religion. I could see that the factual content of the literture was very modest and, at best, redundant. Same approach to dealing with whatever Fanusi writes. Just because we both don't believe in God doesn't mean I'd have to echo information he'd learnt from his secon-hand sources. I think he has as much to learn from insiders as he has from those alien to the culture and dependent on biased journalism to nourish their intellect.

Lastly, it takes two to tango and that would also apply to cultures at the brink of violent confrontation as I feel the situation is heading now. It is up to some of us to ameliorate heightened tensions to ensure that we dont' lose focus of what makes US different from THEM.

42. Sharia law 'could have UK role'

Comment #204314 by Vinelectric on July 4, 2008 at 5:50 pm

Stryer


Could you explain why you do not see Islam as much of a threat as these guys, if this is indeed the case?



I still live in the Muslim Middle East and can see which stereotypes are true of the average Muslim and which are a bit over the top. I'd like to share my first-hand experience to allow us to collectively make an informed (as opposed to a "reactionary") decision on how to tackle this nightmare.


I'm beginning to witness less fact and more paranoia expressed on this forum. Nothing is going to stop me from pointing out what is a true representation of the community that I live amongst and what isn't. The keywords are "honesty" and "consistensy". This is the same principle that forced me to reject the religion. I could see that the factual content of the literture was very modest and, at best, redundant. Same approach to dealing with whatever Fanusi writes. Just because we both don't believe in God doesn't mean I'd have to echo information he'd learnt from his secon-hand sources. I think he has as much to learn from insiders as he has from those alien to the culture and dependent on biased journalism to nourish their intellect.

Lastly, it takes two to tango and that would also apply to cultures at the brink of violent confrontation as I feel the situation is heading now. It is up to some of us to ameliorate heightened tensions to ensure that we dont' lose focus of what makes US different from THEM.

43. Sharia law 'could have UK role'

Comment #204296 by Vinelectric on July 4, 2008 at 4:15 pm

Stryer

I didn't realise your discussion with Rachel already touched on the Beth Din courts. Ignore my last message.

44. Sharia law 'could have UK role'

Comment #204294 by Vinelectric on July 4, 2008 at 4:12 pm

Stryer

To follow your argument - why did he do this only for Muslims?



I got the impression he was endorsing a Muslim version of the Jewish Beth Din courts such as the London United Synagogue.


http://www.theus.org.uk/the_united_synagogue/the_london_beth_din/about_us/

45. Group Asks for Divine Intervention to Ease Oil Prices

Comment #204220 by Vinelectric on July 4, 2008 at 12:16 pm

I think invasions work better than prayers, long term. (sorry, just winding someone up!).

46. Sharia law 'could have UK role'

Comment #204219 by Vinelectric on July 4, 2008 at 12:10 pm

robotaholic

How can people talk so casually about cutting off hands or genitals


You mean from a historical perspective? Well humans used to cannibalise, cauterise, enslave and scarifice each other.

47. Sharia law 'could have UK role'

Comment #204218 by Vinelectric on July 4, 2008 at 12:08 pm

Border Collie, Nova.

Don't expect the British to give their laws up for Sharia. Calm down and read the articles again.

48. Sharia law 'could have UK role'

Comment #204214 by Vinelectric on July 4, 2008 at 11:59 am

Which Sharia Law? The Hanabli, Shafi'i, Maliki, Saudi-Wahhabi....etc

Shariah law can mean anything. The second Caliph of Islam (Umar ibn al Khattab) was even reported to suspend amputations in times of famine. The contradicting literature makes it a hopeless case to say for sure what punishment applies to any given situation to any two Muslims' satisfaction.

The best thing though would be the non-conforming immigrants being told: "Surprise Surprise, we've got Sharia for you here too, bitches"

Oh bummer!

In fact, given the choice, I bet you most of those religious heads would opt to go for English law instead.

49. Muslims outraged at police advert featuring cute puppy sitting in policeman's hat

Comment #204114 by Vinelectric on July 4, 2008 at 6:59 am

And before you start your normal drivel about me running away, I don't always have time to surf the net for hours and wait for you to post your replies.

But you can trust me that, when I do, I'll make a good attempt to "clean up" after your puppy-do's.

Later.

50. Muslims outraged at police advert featuring cute puppy sitting in policeman's hat

Comment #204113 by Vinelectric on July 4, 2008 at 6:56 am

Fanusi

As ridiculous as ever.

Will you have the decency and integrity to report that the leaders of the Muslim community have denounced Asif's remarks publicly?

Spokespersons for the SIF, Al-Maktoum Institute for Arabic and Islamic Studies and the Scottish Islamic Cultural Centre have all been reported in the media to do so.

http://www.islamonline.com/news/newsfull.php?newid=136448

What then? Why the dirty counter-radicalising by selectively reporting what one Muslim bloke thought of the puppy card?

And maybe you should stop parroting JihadWatch for a second and read what Gallup came up with after spending 6 years interviewing 50,000 muslims in the Middle East.

http://goatmilk.wordpress.com/2008/03/03/one-billion-muslim-voices-analyzing-the-gallup-world-poll-of-1-billion-muslims/

and remember the myth that Muslims don't publicly denounce terrorism?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4697365.stm

It's one thing to demand more apology from the MCB but why do we have to descend to the filthy fraudulent propaganda, a hallmark of Muslim extremists, to radicalise public opinion?

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