1. CBC News: Sunday - Richard Dawkins

Comment #103303 by Flagellant on December 25, 2007 at 2:58 am

And a Merry Christmas to you, too, Styrer-. The point still stands: in a short interview, you don't want to be sidetracked. Getting sidetracked means too little time spent on other items that would get the general message across rather better.

Your premise - that this notion is too hard to understand - is wrong.

2. Chasers war on everything: Evangelicals

Comment #103297 by Flagellant on December 25, 2007 at 2:21 am

Mainly for Veronique and other Aussies:

Para 116 of the Aussie Constitution with respect to Church & State is based on the similar US First Amendment. It's actually weaker than the US version in that it doesn't prohibit individual states of the Commonwealth of Oz from going all religious… Queensland is strange enough as it is… I mean, they were the last state, despite the name, to decriminalise gays, and they gave you Pauline Hanson.

Two errors in Bryson: On p. 107 of Down Under, (London: Doubleday, 2000) Bryson says that the seats in the Australian Senate are '…in a restful ochre tone.' Actually, they're dusky or pastel pink. Further, the seats in the House are pastel green, giving each chamber pale versions of those in the UK parliament.

He also lists the giant koala as being at Moyston (p. 138). Actually, it's at Dadswell Bridge.

One further snide comment: Our 'Strictly Come Dancing' ('Dancing with the stars' in Oz) has just finished over here. It brought to mind that, a few years ago, Pauline Hanson got to the Aussie final ;-)

Finally, when the Aussie version of 'What not to wear' was launched, they asked for nominees for people whose dress-sense was 'a little lacking'. I nominated 'everyone in Australia'. Cheeky but spot on, eh?

I'll be Down Under for two months, arriving on Jan 18th. I'll have a car for the whole of the period – I do like making free with your cheap petrol ;-). I feel so 'green' that way ;-). I'll PM you when plans firm up a bit. I'll be in Sydney very briefly, in Melbourne (my son's there), Adelaide, and perhaps Canberra. The rest of the time, I'll be 'saving the planet', touring. Anyone who fancies a tinnie/stub or vino, drop me a PM, please.

I like Steve's idea of meeting in the UK. Merry Christmas, everybody!



Religion – an activity for consenting adults in private.

3. 'Expelled' Movie: The Extended Trailer

Comment #103283 by Flagellant on December 25, 2007 at 12:31 am

Besides the malicious cutting together of two part-statements from RD, I found Ben Stein's speech quite appalling.

His constant references to amputee heroes made me hope that someone in the audience might shout out 'Why won't god heal amputees?' See http://www.whydoesgodhateamputees.com/.

Perhaps someone did - I couldn't watch his crazy spiel to the end.




Religion - an activity for consenting adults in private.

4. Taking children for a ride

Comment #102927 by Flagellant on December 24, 2007 at 1:00 am

Conversely, though, it's nice to see the Natural History Museum making a serious attempt at a scientific exhibit... and in Dubai, too: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/science/article3087321.ece


God is grott, merdeiful.

5. Chasers war on everything: Evangelicals

Comment #102921 by Flagellant on December 24, 2007 at 12:04 am

I think Steve Zara has got Oz spot on. Perhaps I lead a charmed life because I've hit a wombat at night and done no damage to the animal, myself, or the car and I once brushed a spider off my neck only to find that it was a redback. So I never go out once I'm there – it's too dangerous. I get my sunshine from a sunbed ;-) As for the sea, lakes, and rivers, I never go for a swim, either. (Fishes fuck in them.)

Stories about the dangerous nature of Oz are put about by those who want to keep the place nice and select. I'm sure Veronique could tell us the actual fatalities from various fauna but the number's actually very low. IIRC, despite Australia's being home to several of the World's deadliest snakes, there've been no fatalities from them for quite a few years.

OK Veronique, about all this 'jackshit' business: have you read the Aussie Constitution? Have you seen the original Magna Carta in Canberra? I've done both and I have a copy of one - I can't remember which. Can you name just two mistakes – and there are quite a few – in Bill Bryson's otherwise excellent book Down Under?

Back on topic: it's interesting to see so many programmes now having a go at religion. Since Marcus Brigstocke's rant, Can the rest of us have our planet back: Click here, there have been many other digs/tilts in UK comedy programmes and there's a lovely cartoon in The Grauniad, today: Click here.

The zeitgeist is changing. Religion is never going to have it easy again. Faith is no longer universally accepted as beyond criticism. The gentle mockery of Dave Allen is being replaced with a more robust indignation. Hooray!



Religion – an activity for consenting adults in private.
[Links edited for style.]

6. Bible bashing dying out in Kansas

Comment #102530 by Flagellant on December 23, 2007 at 6:19 am

Two more Britishisms that are worth knowing about, for the avoidance of confusion: pissed = drunk ; pissed off = annoyed

Room for confusion among the cousins there. And then there's an American expression I came across again when reading about the lovely CBC lady who wanted to slap somebody - RD probably. Apparently she goes horseback riding. I wondered a bit about this; we in the UK go horse riding. Then, I realised that it's important for you Americans to distinguish yourselves from Bible-Bashers who, together with their other strange practices, probably ride on unusual parts of the horse...


Religion - an activity for consenting adults in private.

7. Chasers war on everything: Evangelicals

Comment #102484 by Flagellant on December 23, 2007 at 2:07 am

Wasn't it the Chasers that almost got into a serious (Melbourne?) summit meeting in Oz a while ago? Unfortunately, they didn't get close enough to have a chat with George Bush.

It's one of the many, perpetual delights of Australia that, when you've finished with the incessant sunshine for the day, there's something like The Chasers to watch.

And Diacanu, if you haven't watched The Castle, you haven't seen one of the best Aussie films.

I can't keep the smile from my face because, in a few weeks, I'm off to Oz for a couple of months.



Religion - an activity for consenting adults in private, especially in Australia.

8. CBC News: Sunday - Richard Dawkins

Comment #102226 by Flagellant on December 22, 2007 at 4:36 am

I'm pleased to see that someone (Copernic 101973) agrees that there's some difficulty with the misfiring/altruism thing (Flagellant 100639). It's not that it's necessarily wrong (Michael 101455); it's more that it can involve a long and complicated explanation.

And it's not that one's expecting the audience to be P. T. Barnum fodder (Styrer- 100853), either. One needs to keep people's attention; snappy, 'closed' answers are much better than long, complicated ones. Unless you're talking to biologists or convinced atheists, mentioning 'misfiring' genes involves too much explanation, be it by analogy or whatever. In a short interview, one wants to cover as many points as possible. Complicated answers, involving undefined concepts, are likely to lead to long diversions on that one point. One's in the hands of the interviewer to a great extent but, by attempting to close off a question, one has the opportunity, and the time, to make many more telling points. It isn't as though there's just one atheist argument ;-) With limited time, one has to cover as much ground as possible. The second half of this interview is largely taken up with altruism/misfiring – too much time for one issue.

W. r. to altruism, it's important to stress that human tribal societies existed for many thousands of years. Richard explained this but then got sidetracked by the misfiring idea. It might have been better to stress that, in human development terms, it's only comparatively recently that we've stopped living in small communities where everyone knows everyone else. So it's not surprising that we still display altruism – we haven't had time to evolve out of it. Mentioning cuckoos and sex (lol) may be interesting but they waste time.

In an interview like this, the objective must be to get high level, general information to the uncommitted and to weak theists; we're seeking converts or trying to persuade people to look further into the positive side of atheism. If it also persuades closet atheists to come out, then that's all to the good. However, these rather general interviews are not intended to appeal to convinced atheists so, if we think there's nothing new, that doesn't matter – it's not a worthwhile objective: we don't need convincing.





Religion – an activity for consenting adults in private.

9. 2007, a bad year for God squadders

Comment #101672 by Flagellant on December 20, 2007 at 6:00 pm

I began to find difficulties when I read this sentence

Seizing on the old Jesuit principle of getting them while their young, Philip Pullman went Hollywood this year with the Dark Materials trilogy.

10. CBC News: Sunday - Richard Dawkins

Comment #100772 by Flagellant on December 19, 2007 at 10:09 am

I've just posted this on the CBC site

Richard Dawkins, in the time available, gave thoughtful and lucid answers to the questions posed. My quick trawl through the comments suggests that his answers struck chords with many, so your programme is to be congratulated on that.

However, I didn't quite understand Carole MacNeil's 'slapping' remark. I wonder if she knows that it's not original: one UK journalist said, of Richard Dawkins, something like 'Doesn't he make you want to slap him, sometimes?' And that was from someone who largely approved of his stance! I wonder if Carole would like to explain precisely what she meant.

11. CBC News: Sunday - Richard Dawkins

Comment #100639 by Flagellant on December 19, 2007 at 3:12 am

This was an outstanding piece of advocacy from RD; he is obviously honing his technique. In some previous interviews I've seen, he's come across as thoughtful and polite, leading to adversarial interviewers 'getting the better of him'. I have sometimes wanted Richard to dispute things more vigorously and this time he got it right. (Indeed, he could have interjected even more.) I wonder if this more aggressive style has resulted from the considered responses to standard question discussed on this site recently…

We have to look at the programme, not from the 'How does that go down with us atheists?' point of view, but 'How will this have gone down with the mass of uncommitted or weakly theist viewers?' In that respect, I think it was, in general, right on target. The only exception is the misfiring/altruism thing. This needs simplifying/amending, especially in a short interview like this, to avoid confusing a 'lay' audience.

It's instructive to contrast this interview of RD's, with one of about the same length, with Jeremy Paxman, in September last year, launching The God Delusion. Click here for Paxman interview. Unusually, Paxman was non-confrontational – it was a book programme, after all - and Richard had everything his own way. The impression was IMHO no better than that with Solomon.

As for Solomon, he gave just the opportunities RD needed and he took them very well. I think this is the best performance (and I use that word deliberately) that RD has given. I wouldn't mind betting that he won much positive interest and not a few 'converts'.

Again: outstanding advocacy.



Religion - an activity for consenting adults in private.
[Link edited for style.]

12. Creationists plan British theme park

Comment #99612 by Flagellant on December 17, 2007 at 7:28 am

It's not original - nor is an exhortation - but:

Q: What's the difference between a Creationist Theme Park and a Creationist Museum?

A: A Creationist Museum burns better.



Religion - an activty for consenting adults in private.

13. Creationists plan British theme park

Comment #99589 by Flagellant on December 17, 2007 at 6:19 am

I like the idea of adding some zest to sites that, er, don't quite agree with us. I thrill at the thought of someone's chagrin after being 'politessed' to death by Steve99 :-) ...

However, organised trips, especially from an RD thread, invite retaliation in kind. It's always interesting to see some Christian hard man try his luck with us. They'll always get trashed, of course, but if we get too many it may disrupt serious discussion of issues such as manifestations of The Wedge Strategy exemplified by this delightful theme park.


Religion - an activity for consenting adults in private.

14. Creationists plan British theme park

Comment #99355 by Flagellant on December 16, 2007 at 12:26 pm

Peter Vardy, mentioned in the Observer article, has partly-financed a city academy that perhaps teaches Creationism in science lessons. The majority of the money comes from the UK taxpayer. Aaargh!

A.F.A.I.R., there was an uproar about this a few years ago but I can't find definitive evidence for this abuse; articles and reports are contradictory and Vardy has denied the accusation.




Religion, an activity for consenting adults in private.

15. Creation college seeks state's OK to train teachers

Comment #99211 by Flagellant on December 15, 2007 at 11:59 pm

In the UK, we shouldn't laugh too much at this sort of thing. There are moves afoot to bring us our very own Creation Theme Park. See here: http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,,2228201,00.html Aaargh!



Religion - an activity for consenting adults in private.

16. Bah, Hanukkah

Comment #97348 by Flagellant on December 11, 2007 at 11:46 pm

Cartomancer, your appraisal and defence of Greek civilisation calls to mind Orson Welles's rather shorter famous personal contribution, involving the Renaissance and democracy, to Carol Reed's film The Third Man. However, I'm not sure if there's even a Jewish equivalent to 'the cuckoo clock'...



Religion - an activity for consenting adults in private.

17. Former Evangelical Minister Has a New Message: Jesus Hearts Darwin

Comment #94889 by Flagellant on December 7, 2007 at 1:01 am

I would love this quote of Dowd's to be given greater prominence

Who of us would let a first-century dentist fix our children's teeth? Yet every day we let first-century theologians fill our children's brains.

18. Highway to hysteria

Comment #94264 by Flagellant on December 5, 2007 at 5:50 am

I wonder why they chose verse 8 explicitly; these verses from I-35 might have been more appropriate:

3. Encourage the exhausted, and strengthen the feeble [minded]

5. Then the eyes of the blind will be opened And the ears of the deaf will be unstopped.

New American Standard Bible with [addition by Flagellant].

Too apposite, perhaps…



Religion – an activity for consenting adults in private.

19. Highway to hysteria

Comment #94176 by Flagellant on December 5, 2007 at 12:42 am

Please, Wikipedia, bring back your definition of Poe's Law and extend it to cover film clips.

(Poe's Law currently says something like: any fundamentalist religious website is indistinguishable from a joke fundamentalist religious website. Or is it vice versa? Has anyone got a better version? I don't like the one that mentions a winking smiley.)


Religion - an activity for consenting adults in private.
[Edit: expanded]

20. Papal encyclical attacks atheism, lauds hope

Comment #93481 by Flagellant on December 3, 2007 at 8:12 am

W.r.t. papal infallibility, my old mum used to say "Never trust a man who wears a hat in church." Spot on eh? It covers rather more than the pope, too...



Religion - an activity for consenting adults in private.

21. Sudan demo over jailed UK teacher

Comment #93402 by Flagellant on December 3, 2007 at 4:59 am

Here's one UK reaction to the news

Rowan Williams, the archbishop of Canterbury has welcomed the news. He said: "I am very glad and relieved for Gillian Gibbons and for her family that this time of extreme anxiety has now come to an end. It will be welcome news to all in Britain and elsewhere, Muslims included, who have seen this episode as a most unhappy over-reaction which has distressed people of all faiths and has caused such suffering to someone manifestly dedicated to the welfare of Sudan and its people."
Appropriately enough he was speaking at from [sic] conference in Singapore between Christian and Muslim scholars.

22. Sudan demo over jailed UK teacher

Comment #93382 by Flagellant on December 3, 2007 at 2:29 am

Yes, epeeist, I pray ;-) that the looniest of the loonies now feel that 'the insult' has already been adequately and appropriately punished...

I laughed at Allan W's comment. Again, she could have been deported to Everton...

23. Sudan demo over jailed UK teacher

Comment #93378 by Flagellant on December 3, 2007 at 1:56 am

I largely share Corylus's views but there are one or two positive aspects.

Firstly, the good bits: it's great to hear that Ms Gibbons has been released; it will be even better to hear that she's on a plane on her way home.

Then, there is the effect that this whole incident has had on the UK Mohammedan community: they regard the whole thing as a big joke and they are, by-and-large, contemptuous of a system that brought it about. Selective interviews with the 'average UK Mohammedan in the street' have been extremely sympathetic. I wouldn't have expected that a year or two ago. Progress!

Unusually, too, leaders of Mohammedan communities have been unequivocal in expressing criticism of the prosecution in Sudan and they have been unanimous in their support of Ms Gibbons. I know of no UK Mohammedan comment that has not been conciliatory.

Mind you, I have heard and read several comments from non-Mohammedans along the lines of 'She should have known better.' I suspect that these comments were calculated to help Sudan save a bit of face.

Coincidentally, Mohammedan leaders have also issued an administrative code of conduct for mosques to make them less likely to be hotbeds of extremism and terrorism. This code requires much more careful management of facility use. We can only welcome this.

Now for the bad news, an expansion of Corylus's point. It is ridiculous that two Mohammedan members of the Lords should have been involved; it only gives unwarranted attention to the religious aspect of the whole affair. I agree that we should have worked assiduously for Gillian Gibbons release but, to have had two UK Mohammedans intimately involved in the early release, gives far too much attention to the religious nature of British politics.

We're trying to downgrade this stone-age nonsense (aren't we?), not to raise its profile.




Religion – an activity for consenting adults in private.
God is irretrievably grott and deeply merdeiful.

24. Evolution Debate Led to Ouster, Official Says

Comment #93013 by Flagellant on December 2, 2007 at 1:09 am

As I'm responsible for the sacked/resigned canard, let me explain (Russell): when you are in a difficult work situation, the environment can become so unpleasant and intolerable that the only thing you want to do is get out.

However, when there are serious matters of principle involved, in the long run it's better to be sacked. I have known several people who were sacked by notorious, incompetent bosses and the very sacking worked out as a good reference. All sensible people in the industry knew that the boss concerned was an irrational bastard and a piss-poor manager.

The best example of a resignation mistake, involving a matter of principle – although different in nature – concerns Greg Dyke who was director-general of the BBC. There was the serious spat with the UK government about Iraq information. (David Kelly, Andrew Gilligan, Lord Hutton… I don't want to go into this in detail – it's too far off-piste, and we're far enough, already.) According to his (not very good) book Inside Story, Dyke sought the opinion of his friend, Melvyn Bragg, on the issue. Bragg said that 'resigning will look better on your c.v.' (that's resumé) and Dyke duly resigned, rather than waiting to be fired. Wrong! It's better to make public the ultimatum 'Resign or be fired' and wait.

As events unfolded, it transpired that the BBC had been largely right. Dyke was popular with his staff at the BBC, so he wasn't under intolerable pressure. (I can only guess what it's like to work among an unrelieved group of creationists. I had one in my department once and it wasn't easy… ) Now, though, Dyke is thought of as a bit of a whinger. I, personally, think he should have stuck to his guns. Events have vindicated him.

With Ms Corner, perhaps it may be different and we don't know enough detail. (I omitted discussing 'constructive dismissal' from my first comment in the interest of brevity, and look where it's got me :-). Perhaps she has/had no support. However, in the end, because of the long-term common sense of the American people, I'm sure she will be vindicated. Unjustified sackings are always seen as vindictive and the work of insecure silly/nasty people, especially if you pointedly refuse to resign. If you resign, it can always be interpreted that you acknowledge, however slightly, that you were in the wrong.


Religion - an activity for consenting adults in private.
[Edit: thanks for the link, bluebird. It's nice to have more detail and to know that Ms Corner's getting some support.]

25. Evolution Debate Led to Ouster, Official Says

Comment #92718 by Flagellant on December 1, 2007 at 10:03 am

Three points: 1. Has no sympathetic person in the IT department analysed sent emails to be able to demonstrate that other people have done similar things? 2. It's always better to be sacked than to resign: with something like this, it's almost a good reference. & 3. Most importantly, what else is a director of science curriculum to do, apart from 'direct science curriculum' and highlight non-science attempting to masquerade as science?



Religion - an activity for consenting adults in private.

26. 'Teddy' teacher jailed in Sudan

Comment #92254 by Flagellant on November 30, 2007 at 6:31 am

I don't think Gillian Gibbons will be in danger when she gets back to the UK. The good thing about the issue is that many leading Mohammedans here have said publicly how ridiculous the whole thing is. Indeed, I think a group went/are going to Khartoum in her support.

Longer term in the UK, it should help to stop some of the loonier of lunacies of the loonies, if you see what I mean.


God is strikingly grott, merdeiful.

27. 'Teddy' teacher jailed in Sudan

Comment #92250 by Flagellant on November 30, 2007 at 6:15 am

I've just heard about the protesters calling for the death sentence. It occurs to me, uncharitably, to imagine a 'Mission Impossible' scenario in which Sarah Khawad is disguised as Gillian Gibbons and handed over to the mob. Silly, but I can't get it out of my mind. Perhaps I should get out more...



God is thoroughly grott, merdeiful.

28. 'Teddy' teacher jailed in Sudan

Comment #92218 by Flagellant on November 30, 2007 at 4:37 am

Here's the slightly edited text of a letter I've just sent to my MP:

Whatever the government does to express its disapproval at the disgraceful treatment of Gillian Gibbons, one measure would be easy and effective: repeal the blasphemy laws, immediately . This would send a strong message about how civilised nations behave. It would provide a level playing field for all religions and, incidentally, undermine any attempted prosecution of 'Jerry Springer - The Opera'.

After that, they might consider removing the limited protection recently given to 'religion' generally.

Nearly ten years ago, foreseeing how the iniquity (protection of Christianity) might play with UK Mohammedans, I wrote to you with a similar suggestion. You passed my letter on to the late Robin Cook whose anodyne answer amounted to 'It's all a matter of opinion'.

No it isn't; it's a matter of logic.

The repeal of blasphemy legislation, never (I hope) likely to be used successfully in the future, would send a powerful signal that, while we value diversity, secular democracies do not rely on medieval or dark age legislation to protect religious sensibilities.

This could be done even before Gillian Gibbons is back in the UK and the launch of metaphorical cruise missiles against the appalling Khartoum administration begins.

Please deal with this as a matter of urgency!

29. Golden Compass author hits back

Comment #91807 by Flagellant on November 29, 2007 at 11:04 am

Yes, Frankus1122, please keep us posted.



Religion - an activity for consenting adults in private.

30. 'Muhammad' teddy teacher arrested

Comment #91806 by Flagellant on November 29, 2007 at 11:01 am

Gillian Gibbons has just been found guilty of (I think) 'insulting religion' and sentenced to fifteen days in prison, followed by deportation.

What a shame they couldn't have done it the other way round.



God, Mohammed, Mahomet, Muhammad, and all related 'prophets' are totally grott, execrable, and merdeiful.

31. Pupil defends teacher in Muhammad teddy furore

Comment #91803 by Flagellant on November 29, 2007 at 10:59 am

Gillian Gibbons has just been found guilty of (I think) 'insulting religion' and sentenced to fifteen days in prison, followed by deportation.

What a shame they couldn't have done it the other way round.



God, Mohammed, Mahomet, Muhammad, and all related 'prophets' are totally grott, execrable, and merdeiful.

32. Turkey probes atheist's 'God' book

Comment #91699 by Flagellant on November 29, 2007 at 2:03 am

I know a former Turkish Kurd (he's British now). I had a long talk with him about Turkey joining the EU. He was very much against it and I think he convinced me.

Say what you like about Communism, but it produces educated, literate people. I come across people from Eastern Europe every day. They are charming, competent, and speak excellent English with beguiling accents. (Some of them are good plumbers, too. LOL.) The literacy rates in their countries are, with one or two exceptions, well into the nineties.

Turkey, though, has a low literacy rate - I think it's in the thirties. So, despite the best efforts of Kemal Ataturk, the country is depressingly backward.

Of course, publishing TGD in Turkey would go down well with the urban, literate minority. But the big problem is how to get to the vast illiterate and ignorant majority. The EU should have insisted on a high level of literacy as one of the prerequisites for membership. We might not then have seen their democracy backsliding from secularism towards religiosity: Gul and his headscarf-wearing wife. Bah!


Religion - an activity for consenting adults in private.

33. Dutch lawmaker planning film criticizing the Quran

Comment #91472 by Flagellant on November 28, 2007 at 12:08 pm

Something (quite a lot?) not right here

"Submission" — a fictional study of abused Muslim women with scenes of near-naked women with Quranic texts engraved on their flesh.

34. 'Muhammad' teddy teacher arrested

Comment #91454 by Flagellant on November 28, 2007 at 10:59 am

couldbethelasttime - perhaps I could arrange for your Muhammad to meet one of the Muhammeds in comment #91042...



God is utterly grott, merdeiful.
[Edit: trying to get my avatar back, boo hoo...]

35. Golden Compass author hits back

Comment #91282 by Flagellant on November 28, 2007 at 12:12 am

Further to my previous post, Frankus1122, here's an earlier article, from the Sydney Morning Herald, with what's probably the original quote http://www.smh.com.au/news/film/kidman-denies-film-is-antichurch/2007/08/18/1186857834748.html

My son was taught by Philip Pullman. He rated him an excellent teacher. Rather surprisingly, my son never complained to me that Pullman was anti-religion ;-) You may quote me on that. LOL.



Religion - an activity for consenting adults in private.

36. Golden Compass author hits back

Comment #91279 by Flagellant on November 27, 2007 at 11:48 pm

I sympathise with you, Frankus1122. However, in addition to the suggestions already made, here's a very useful piece of quote-mining for you: Nicole Kidman said that she wouldn't have been able to do the film if she thought it anti-Catholic. Here's the exact quote:

'I was raised Catholic, the Catholic Church is part of my essence,' she told film journalists in Australia in the summer. 'I wouldn't be able to do this film if I thought it were at all anti-Catholic.'

37. 2006 Charles Simonyi Lecture: 'Can the Internet Save The Enlightenment?'

Comment #91064 by Flagellant on November 27, 2007 at 6:12 am

What a lovely talk! I'm sorry I wasn't there. Sir Harry Kroto has been one of my heroes ever since I saw a programme about Buckminsterfullerene (C60).

I've never heard a mathematical joke before and I really laughed at the 'Plus a constant' line.

It would have been nice to have had a bit more about the 18th century Enlightenment. It is one of the most fascinating parts of humanity's advance. I don't know whether to be worried or unconcerned about attempts to drag us back towards the Dark Ages. People aren't that stupid, are they?

I'll be listening again - there's so much in it; great talk and great bloke.



Religion - an activity for consenting adults in private.

38. 'Muhammad' teddy teacher arrested

Comment #91042 by Flagellant on November 27, 2007 at 4:38 am

I never make fun of religion, nor do I seek to insult it (bugger, where's my 'ironic' avatar gone?). However, in the interests of news promulgation, I offer this from a friend's website:

My dog's called Fred. I'm wondering about renaming him Muhammed. Still, perhaps it might be just as good to let him stay 'Fred' and call his arsehole 'Muhammed'.

39. Religion is not incompatible with Science: 'Non-Overlapping Magisteria'

Comment #90680 by Flagellant on November 26, 2007 at 5:44 am

While on the subject of teddy bears, have a look at this!

A British primary school teacher has been arrested in Sudan accused of blasphemy for allowing her pupils to name a teddy bear Muhammad, it emerged today… …Twenty out of the 23 children chose Muhammad.

40. Tony Blair: Mention God and you're a 'nutter'

Comment #90414 by Flagellant on November 25, 2007 at 4:16 am

The just-elected Prime Minister of Australia is a committed Christian, like his predecessor. (Congrats, Aussies btw, in having made the better choice.)

I look forward to hearing about the influence of Kevin Rudd's faith on his politics...



Religion - an activity for consenting adults in private: especially not to be encouraged in politicians.

41. Tony Blair: Mention God and you're a 'nutter'

Comment #90384 by Flagellant on November 25, 2007 at 1:18 am

Did god really tell Tony Blair to invade Iraq? If so, the nasty little invisible friend's judgement is as poor as his creature's.




Religion - an activity for consenting adults in private.

42. Study: Babies can tell helpful, hurtful playmates

Comment #90190 by Flagellant on November 23, 2007 at 11:20 am

(I was going to suggest that God provided this extraordinary discriminating ability but someone (irate_atheist) beat me to it.)

So, please note that this interesting piece of research was originally published in 'Nature'. I've just been listening to The News Quiz. I know Pinker wouldn't like to hear Sandi Toskvig's suggestion that perhaps it should have appeared, instead, in 'Nurture'.


Religion - an activity for consenting adults in private.

[Edit: I was going to ask where all the avatars have gone but, oooh look... bloody hell: gone again. I saw it, honest]

43. Saudi gang-rape victim is jailed

Comment #90121 by Flagellant on November 23, 2007 at 4:44 am

Wouldn't it have been better to have invaded Saudi Arabia rather than Iraq? Iraq had bugger-all to do with 9/11, whereas the majority (15 of 19) of the suicide gang were Wahhabi Arabs from Saudi Arabia. Coincidence? Not likely.

This tragic nonsense only reinforces the opinion.



Truly, god is grott and infinitely merdeiful.

44. Ofcom backs Channel 4 over mosque probe

Comment #89923 by Flagellant on November 22, 2007 at 6:46 am

Most UK police are not over-bright. This was evident from John Harvey Jones' investigation, many years ago, into the (I think) West Yorkshire police, supposedly one of the most go-ahead forces in the country. There used to be a statistic that more graduates go into crime than into the police. It's probably still true. A few years ago, I went to a school reunion and, yes, many of the least intelligent had joined the police. Some had got to very senior positions.

For years, the police were institutionally racist – they managed to avoid the provisions of the Race Relations Act - and there was one sensational undercover investigation that led to police resignations. They're just beginning to get the message but, because of their 'disadvantage', they're unable to recognise the difference between race and religion so they're treading very carefully. They've done some pretty stupid things e.g. shooting Jean Charles de Menezes and conducting a heavy-handed search of a house shared by two devout Mohammedans, one of whom was shot accidentally during the process.

They probably think they've done something clever by refraining from trampling over sensitive ground: mosques and whatnot but, as I'm suggesting, they're too lacking in perception/judgement to understand the real situation. They had to be pushed hard to prosecute Mohammedans who demonstrated, carrying hateful banners, against the Danish cartoons. Alas, it was the UK's right wing press that had to do the persuading. Fortunately, the case was brought eventually and prison sentences resulted.

OFCOM, to whom the 'Undercover Mosque' programme was referred, react principally to complaints from individuals affected by programmes. Of course, the preachers highlighted did not complain for obvious reasons: they'd draw more attention to their nastiness. There were complaints from several Mohammedan groups, including the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia itself (LOL), but these were thrown out.

What surprises me most is that the Crown Prosecution Service failed to proceed with the complaint about the hate-preachers; the nasties were caught bang to rights. Police get things wrong because of their intellectually challenged mindset but the CPS doesn't suffer as much from that complaint. I can only put it down to political interference. There has been rather a lot of that recently.



Truly, god is grott, merdeiful.

45. For the glory of God

Comment #89540 by Flagellant on November 21, 2007 at 3:21 am

I get really pissed off with people who cite coincidences as evidence of psi or something strange going on. The thing to do is to consider all the things that happen that we wouldn't call coincidences.

If you think of the number of things that we experience every day, every month, or every year, it's not surprising that there are coincidences - it would be funny if there weren't. When I come across a coincidence, I think 'Oh, that's a coincidence.' I then get on; there's nothing abnormal. It's all a matter of probability.

'Believers' should pay attention to people like Derren Brown who do remarkable things and then explain how the trick has worked. Then there's James Randi who offers loads of loot to people who can demonstrate any non-scientific happening under experimental conditions. He has snookered quite a few people, Uri Geller included, and his money is still his own.

It pays to be really sceptical...




Religion - an activity for consenting adults in private.

46. For the glory of God

Comment #89212 by Flagellant on November 20, 2007 at 2:58 am

Hmm wkburnette, thanks for mentioning Salley Vickers. I think Dan Gardner made a mistake in quoting Vickers in the way he did - the 'nutcases' remark in the review from which it comes, is totally ironic. The whole review is ironic, too. This is evident in her first line, referring enigmatically to Darwin's Angel as a piece of shit. (Thanks to Dr Benway, spook extraordinaire.)

I commented several times on the original thread: http://richarddawkins.net/article,1591,Review-of-Darwins-Angel-An-Angelic-Response-to-the-God-Delusion,Salley-Vickers , suggesting that Vickers' review is ironic. I explain this in some detail on the last page in the (so far) final comment (234, #72849) to the thread.



Religion – an activity for consenting adults in private.

47. Judgement Day: Intelligent Design on Trial

Comment #88809 by Flagellant on November 19, 2007 at 2:49 am

Thanks for that, Scooternyc. It seems that some people, e.g. Tabash, are very worried. While appreciating his pessimism, I hope you are right, implicitly, about the scare being unjustified.




Religion - an activity for consenting adults in private.

48. For the glory of God

Comment #88792 by Flagellant on November 19, 2007 at 2:12 am

This reminds me of Richard Dawkins' Grauniad article (http://books.guardian.co.uk/departments/politicsphilosophyandsociety/story/0,,555273,00.html ) subheaded

Promise a young man that death is not the end and he will willingly cause disaster.

To fill a world with religion, or religions of the Abrahamic kind, is like littering the streets with loaded guns. Do not be surprised if they are used.

49. Judgement Day: Intelligent Design on Trial

Comment #88782 by Flagellant on November 19, 2007 at 1:50 am

Many thanks Scooternyc for the links, those to Dershowitz particularly; I'd never heard him speak before, but I'd read some of his articles. However, I first saw the Laura Schlessinger letter, from which he quoted, many years ago. (Remarkably, it was later offered to me, in an academic context, as an example of Derridan deconstruction. Post-modernism isn't all BS, then.)

Dershowitz shortened the letter significantly; this is one of the questions omitted:

Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighbouring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?

On one occasion [in America]…there was a nearly disastrous technical problem when the lighting failed. While frantic repairs were underway, Edna [Everage] stepped forward and apostrophised the studio audience in an attempt to keep the atmosphere buoyant…

'Sorry about the lighting, possums,' she said. 'I think the Mexicans in the basement must have stopped peddling.' [Sic. Perhaps it would have been better had they been pedalling... - Flagellant]

I learnt later that this extemporary remark almost caused a total walkout by affronted technicians, none of whom, incidentally, was Mexican. I had not realized the extent of the double standards in some quarters of the United States, which give noisy lip-service to the doctrine of equality and yet employ, for minimal wages, a huge subclass of Latino peasants as leaf blowers, dishwashers, chambermaids and hospital orderlies. Jest about this at your peril.

50. Judgement Day: Intelligent Design on Trial

Comment #88582 by Flagellant on November 18, 2007 at 12:10 am

I watched this; it's an excellent programme. I'll bet we in the UK will be seeing it soon. I wonder how much attention it will attract in the US - I've just heard that Huckabee is doing well... Aaargh!

Goodwithwood 88464 and room101 make a fair point about the Supreme Court; it has a dramatic influence on US attitudes and values and a change in stance will have a tremendous effect, not just at home but worldwide.

If I were in the US, no matter what my political leanings, I would vote for whichever presidential candidate was most likely to preserve a pro-science, non-religious, disestablished complexion to the Supreme Court. I hope that you free-thinkers can pull it off but I'm worried for you.




Religion - an activity for consenting adults in private.