Comments by heathen2

1. Palin's Church May Have Shaped Controversial Worldview

Comment #242660 by heathen2 on September 4, 2008 at 10:09 am

steveroot, thanks for pointing out the fake. Can't assume what we see on the internet is real all the time.

2. Palin's Church May Have Shaped Controversial Worldview

Comment #242650 by heathen2 on September 4, 2008 at 9:38 am

As an aside, did anyone see the pictures that Palin's daughter posted on her myspace? There is one of Palin in an American flag bikini with a rifle. Interesting, I wonder what conservative church going folk think of that. Actually they might like it.
There are also pics of the daughter which they might not like. Overall, kind of trashy. I don't really care what the daughter does, or if she is trashy. But Palin's views on abortion, gays, the war, the environment and so on just sicken me.

3. Childish superstition: Einstein's letter makes view of religion relatively clear

Comment #179204 by heathen2 on May 12, 2008 at 9:34 pm

Even if Einstein believed in a Jewish or Christian god - which clearly he didn't - it still would not make the idea of god(s) a true one. Pretty much what James is saying I think.

4. The Atheist Next Door

Comment #157826 by heathen2 on April 9, 2008 at 3:15 pm

I found the tone of this annoying too. They report it with the approach that atheists are some odd weird bunch of people. I don't think that is how the public views us. Despite the polls of atheists being mistrusted to hold public office, I just never get that reaction when the question of atheism comes up. Maybe others have a different experience, perhaps depending on what part of the country you reside.

5. America: slouching towards the Enlightenment

Comment #135305 by heathen2 on February 28, 2008 at 7:50 pm

I so agree SPS. I do find that with the heightened religious climate here in the States, that faith interferes with normal interactions.

Just from my own perspective, I notice that I can't tolerate simple things such listening to "religious" sentiments, even like "I'll pray for you". Or my mom will say "It's all in god's hands". It just makes my stomach turn. And it really bothers me that I am so sickened by it. I wonder if my reaction isn't excessive. Other atheists seem to tolerate it without the revulsion.

6. America: slouching towards the Enlightenment

Comment #135293 by heathen2 on February 28, 2008 at 7:33 pm

So I think if the hidden population of atheists are counted, it would be so much higher. The only category with more growth would be the pastafarians, if they oly came out of the closet.

7. America: slouching towards the Enlightenment

Comment #135285 by heathen2 on February 28, 2008 at 7:28 pm

Along the lines of what rivetheretic wrote, there are some religions, such as Hinduism, where the cultural identification is so strong that people would say they are Hindu and really not believe in any god. I know many people like that. They would never think to say they are atheist although that is more accurate.

8. Math Religion Trouble

Comment #116901 by heathen2 on January 27, 2008 at 6:28 pm

Blake,

Thanks for including the rest of the Paulos quote. It does change the meaning somewhat. I agree that the full quote would have been the right thing to print in the review, but that would not have suited the reviewer so well it seems.

9. Interview with Richard Dawkins

Comment #116848 by heathen2 on January 27, 2008 at 3:28 pm

Regarding Comment #116834 by joshuaslocum: Wonderful post, terrific rant. Thank you so much.

10. A Letter From Hell

Comment #116846 by heathen2 on January 27, 2008 at 3:18 pm

Vinelectric:

heathen2

Theny you'll friend will have a nervous breakdown if you told her about the book that says you'll be fed boiling pus and that you'll be threaded ona 70 foot chain (mouth to anus) in hell whilst been dragged face down all along..

The Quran has all the tools to drive children insane.

I haven't read my Quran cover to cover for many years now. Does it really say that? Shameful.

11. A Letter From Hell

Comment #116839 by heathen2 on January 27, 2008 at 3:05 pm

I share your horror Paula.

And to lindseymwright, you say of the video:

It wasn't meant for non-belivers. It was written for those who do believe.

You are quite wrong, it was meant for non-believers also, since they were the targets of the believers, presumably moved into converting others after seeing this video. It is reprehensible that vulnerable children, those forced into believing through their family traditions as well as their classmates and friends who become their targets, are subjected to the kind of stuff on this video. Paula said it better than I could.

12. A Letter From Hell

Comment #116810 by heathen2 on January 27, 2008 at 1:47 pm

I was just describing the basics of this video to a friend and it gave her the creeps just hearing it. She is not a Christian, I think more of a deist.

13. Math Religion Trouble

Comment #116804 by heathen2 on January 27, 2008 at 1:33 pm

"It's repellent for atheists or agnostics," he admonishes, "to personally and aggressively question others' faith or pejoratively label it as benighted flapdoodle or something worse. Those who do are rightfully seen as arrogant and overbearing."

I haven't read his book, but doesn't Paulos attack belief when he calls it "a kind of verbal magic show.'' ?

Seems like he is doing what he finds repellant in others. I'm okay with his attack on beliefs, in fact I'm all for it.

14. Way of the Master Radio talks about Dawkins' Christmas Comments

Comment #100544 by heathen2 on December 18, 2007 at 9:29 pm

Just got done listening to Dan and Todd. Thanks Quill. That was maddening, hilarious, revolting, all at the same time.

Although he displayed his ignorance and arrogance throughout, Todd really showed how lacking he is when attempting to answer the question about polytheism. He knows nothing about other religions, yet proclaims his own to be true. What a nutbag.

Dan Barker was great. He so easily slipped into his former religious persona at times, it was a bit unnerving. I really enjoyed his calm, reasoning tone, but he also spoke with passion, especially when discussing Todd's "bankrupt morality".

15. Interview with Richard Dawkins: On Christmas

Comment #100458 by heathen2 on December 18, 2007 at 4:28 pm

There seems to be a lot of anger (from some theists) around atheists enjoying or participating in Xmas festivities. As if they own it. They don't. But the anger is really interesting. More like outrage, is my sense. It's like they are saying "you atheists are speaking out against the god part and all of the other religious evils, so how dare you presume to enjoy the fun parts of it".

16. Interview with Richard Dawkins: On Christmas

Comment #100453 by heathen2 on December 18, 2007 at 4:15 pm

Thanks, notsobad and an_ant_under_a_penny.

17. Interview with Richard Dawkins: On Christmas

Comment #100419 by heathen2 on December 18, 2007 at 3:24 pm

"You sound like the kind of person who sends Christmas cards to the Archers".

I didn't get this reference. What does it mean?

18. Richard Dawkins on 'Have Your Say'

Comment #96043 by heathen2 on December 9, 2007 at 8:30 pm

Well it surely is encouraging that many callers supported Richard. Were they callers from around the world, I wonder? That makes me feel more optimistic, though.

On the other hand watching Romney (and Huckabee) on the Bill Moyers show makes me ill. I suddenly felt pessimistic envisioning one of them becoming president. I keep thinking there is no way one of them could get elected, but now I don't know. Bush was elected(?), twice.

19. Richard Dawkins on 'Have Your Say'

Comment #96036 by heathen2 on December 9, 2007 at 8:12 pm

It seems it wouldn't make a difference whether we called ourselves "atheists" or not, any label would be vilified, such as "Stalin was a rationalist and look at all the people he killed".

I think I heard it right that the priest said that Stalin and Hitler were setting up secular humanist utopian regimes, and that was what was so wrong. Since when is humanism a negative? And is aspiring toward a utopia a bad thing? Stalin and Hitler and others had a distorted vision of what they considered utopia no doubt, but to say envisioning or working toward a more harmonious society is negative? Some how the religious manage to turn everything on it's head. They freak me out.

Also I really noticed that the priest was screaming (channeling Dinesh?). What's up with that. No one else was yelling so loudly.

20. Poll finds more Americans believe in devil than Darwin

Comment #92511 by heathen2 on November 30, 2007 at 4:44 pm

My daughter just told me that a girl in her science class angrily wrote "we are not evolved from apes" in her workbook before turning it into the teacher. They have just begun studying plants and something about Darwin and natural selection was mentioned. Humans or other animals were not even discussed.

This makes me very angry. When I see the polls, I don't want to believe what they tell me. But I wonder. I also don't think level of education has that much to do with weird beliefs (just from my own experience), but it seems the resurgence of born again people might contribute to the ignorance and great value placed on blind faith.

21. Papal encyclical attacks atheism, lauds hope

Comment #92346 by heathen2 on November 30, 2007 at 10:23 am

I agree with Scott, it seems that no matter what we label ourselves with (or don't), they will give us a label and twist it. I'm getting more and more comfortable with atheist, even though reactions seem to be shock, surprise, raised eyebrows to that term. That's okay, they can get used to it over time.

If the pope wants to demonstrate how he puts his faith in his god instead of material goods, he can give away the church wealth to charity (how about Amnesty International). That would be a powerful message to his flock, rather than issuing worthless encyclicals.

22. Papal encyclical attacks atheism, lauds hope

Comment #92318 by heathen2 on November 30, 2007 at 9:25 am

Reciting arguments made by atheists, he said: "A world marked by so much injustice, innocent suffering and cynicism of power cannot be the work of a good God. A God with responsibility for such a world would not be a just God, much less a good God."

So how does the pope counter this sentiment? I don't get how he did this from the article. Good response from the UAAR.

This pope is several steps backward from the last guy. Probably he's just scared that the RC power structure will crumble during his tenure, so he's hanging on tight.

23. Pupil defends teacher in Muhammad teddy furore

Comment #91580 by heathen2 on November 28, 2007 at 3:38 pm

I thought that Muslims typically named their first son Muhammad. Maybe only among some Muslim cultures? Does anyone know about this? I know thare are a lot of Muhammads running around.

24. Sunday School for Atheists

Comment #90925 by heathen2 on November 26, 2007 at 5:06 pm

Growing up without religion (most of the time), I was always happy not to have the drudgery of Sunday service or any other forced prayer/service. I felt sorry for my friends who had to go, because mostly they didn't want to either.

I have never felt the need to take my kids to a church type place for either the instruction or the sense of community. We can get community through other means, and feel sorry for the kids that are dragged to church.

I teach my kids values, morals and ethics through my actions and behavior. We have discussions about ideas, other people, the world, philosophy, history, science, etc. They learn alot from that and I learn from them.

We feel no need for a Sunday school. Fortunately, my spouse is on the same wavelength with this, so it is not a problem for us. I can understand though if someone wants to counter the religious education their child is getting (due to a religious spouse) that this would be a good thing.

One thing I don't get though, whether you are religious or not, is why put something as important as your child's moral education in the hands of others (such as priests, rabbis, sunday school teachers, atheist "bishops")?

25. The New Atheists on Organized Freethought

Comment #82440 by heathen2 on October 26, 2007 at 10:39 am

I continue to be impressed by Prof. Dawkins. I liked how he responded to Sam's talk and also indicated that he continues to reflect on the ideas presented by Sam. He doesn't just quickly answer every question put to him with set viewpoints, but actually thinks and is open to change. He is a role model for me.

And as far as the Pastor Deacon Fred, I suppose one of the obligations of a free society is to tolerate and coexist with such nutjobs. I think "nutjob" may be too kind in labeling Fred.

26. '55 'Origin of Life' Paper Is Retracted

Comment #82185 by heathen2 on October 25, 2007 at 7:59 pm

Let's be fair -- the catholic church routinely apologizes for everything it does about 50-100 years later!

And they have so much to apologize for, they will be doing it forever. Maybe if we can convince them to just disappear, they won't suffer so much humiliation conceding that atheists and humanists were right after all.

27. Sam Harris at AAI 07

Comment #82166 by heathen2 on October 25, 2007 at 7:24 pm

Whoops, I posted before I looked at the Q&A and the first questioner mentioned labels such as abolitionists.

I like your point RainDear, about taking the best from each of these people. I don't think there is a leader though.

28. Sam Harris at AAI 07

Comment #82162 by heathen2 on October 25, 2007 at 7:14 pm

I think Sam needs to debate the idiot D'Souza. Has someone already suggested this here and I missed it? Nothing fazes Sam, it seems, and I would hope he would not let Dinesh get away with his silly remarks.

I don't agree with Sam's entire premise in this talk. It seems labels may be needed at times and people against slavery and ill traetment did have a label - abolitionists.

29. Debate between Richard Dawkins and John Lennox

Comment #79553 by heathen2 on October 17, 2007 at 4:53 pm

Indeed: the moral Zeitgeist has slowly but steadily come closer to Jesus' ethics.

Oh, you mean the morals and ethics of Jesus as quoted from the letter from Coral Ridge ministry:

Jesus said, "But whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to stumble, it would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were thrown into the sea" (Mark 9:42 NKJV).

Pretty nasty morals and ethics in My judgement. We want to move away from this, not come closer to it.

(I'm sorry if this is repetitive, and someone else already mentioned it. I haven't read the whole thread through.)

30. Richard Dawkins receives the Deschner Prize

Comment #78985 by heathen2 on October 15, 2007 at 4:35 pm

Professor Dawkins,

What a wonderful speech you gave. I add my voice in congratulations. A prize well deserved.

31. Report on Hindu god Ram withdrawn

Comment #78983 by heathen2 on October 15, 2007 at 4:17 pm

launched a scathing attack on the government for questioning the "faith of the million

And this is the part that is most disturbing. Overall, in the hindu faith, questioning is not a problem. And unlike the muslim faith, no one cares if you are a hindu apostate (I've never even heard of that) I think. So when these kind of statements are made by hindus, it really is a problem.

32. Report on Hindu god Ram withdrawn

Comment #78979 by heathen2 on October 15, 2007 at 4:09 pm

Regarding Comment #78972 by jeepyjay on October 15, 2007

I understand what you are saying about the nice stories and all, and certainly unique formations such as this should be considered. However to give ground to people solely on the basis of a myth is truly backward and ridiculous.

33. Pentagon Sued Over Mandatory Christianity

Comment #72046 by heathen2 on September 20, 2007 at 7:58 am

MuNky82,

I get what you are saying, but as in the situation when a gay person's rights are infringed upon, your rights (not to waste your time participating in a prayer) are also infringed upon. I might do as you are doing, because it is also wasteful to go around just making a fuss over everything. But after awhile, I might get tired of it and just decline to participate. Your boss ought to be more sensetive.

34. Pentagon Sued Over Mandatory Christianity

Comment #72044 by heathen2 on September 20, 2007 at 7:50 am

I feel great dread and sorrow over the future of this country. I fear for the free future of my children, and my childrens children.

konquererz, I'm trying not to feel the same, but it is unavoidable. It seems I hear the "christian nation" stuff more in the media and expressed on bumper stickers, I just don't see everyday people in normal interactions talk about this. They have better things to do, thankfully, then go around yelling about how we have a "christian nation".

I guess my despair comes from the realization of the ignorance and utter lack of desire on the part of most people to actually think or to educate themselves which leads them to hold fast to their religious beliefs. I know many, many people with a decent formal education in science and that have science degrees who believe in one or more god(s). Some even admit to disbelief in evolution without hesitation. What bothers me most is that they are sending their kids down this path (religious schools, church, etc).

Ok, end of rant.

35. God Talk on 'The View'

Comment #71760 by heathen2 on September 19, 2007 at 3:29 pm

I got the impression that Joy (the one next to Whoopi) was completely in a different league than the others. She was trying to point out how a number of the Republican candidates don't think evolution is true and implied that is a problem. She was not too articulate or forceful, but at least she tried to counter the stances of the others. All of them are annoying though. Especially the way they talk over each other so that you can't hear anyone.

I hope these ladies are not representative of American women. They don't represent me! But I have a number of friends with this viewpoint, only they don't blabber about it in public. One friend told me that she is ashamed to admit to others that she is christian and feels she will be judged negatively because of it. Well, given the silly views of the christians, I can certainly see why. I thought it would be kind of mean to say that to her though.

36. The Nonbelievers

Comment #71121 by heathen2 on September 17, 2007 at 9:10 pm

BAEOZ,
It's tough with family, I have some issues of my own, strangely with the parent of mine who is an atheist (in regard to whether religion deserves respect). I just noticed today at work that "spirituality" was mention in relation to coping, and that this was automatically linked to "faith" and "church". That really bothers me now. I didn't say anything (not the appropriate time or place), but I wonder if my face betrayed my disgust. I do feel alone among my co workers in being an atheist, although I don't make a secret of it and a number of people know it. Still I wouldn't go for the kind of religious service-like support offered by Epstein.

37. The Nonbelievers

Comment #71104 by heathen2 on September 17, 2007 at 8:36 pm

I get where Epstein is coming from, trying to provide organized emotional and moral support for nonbelievers. But I don't like the way he does it. I smacks too much of religious ceremony and trappings of theistic traditions. And I am offended in being labeled a fundamentalist.

I don't know if it is my increasing awareness of where I stand regarding my atheism, or my addiction to this site or all the books on atheist philosophy I've been reading lately, but I find that I just abhor and detest theism in a way I never did before. Do other people feel this too? It's as if I can barely tolerate it anymore.

38. Young Muslims begin dangerous fight for the right to abandon faith

Comment #69936 by heathen2 on September 13, 2007 at 8:14 am

Paskoo,

I feel for what you are going through. Do people in your family or your wife actually know your views? As far as your question, I'm not aware of any group here, but it is almost hard to believe and a sorry stae of affairs that one could feel threatened here in our country as you do (and the gentleman mentioned by DR. B). I would guess there are many like you, people of reason and sanity who are from muslim countries or backgrounds. But they would never say it openly.

I have a few childhood close friends who are Muslim. I don't have much contact with them anymore, but I was talking to one friend and mentioned that I am an atheist (I'm from a hindu background). It felt strange to tell her, and I could not tell what she thought of it. Turns out she has become quite a staunch muslim. My parents would be horrified if they knew that I had told her my views.

39. A Response to Jonathan Haidt

Comment #69854 by heathen2 on September 13, 2007 at 2:14 am

fides_et_ratio,

You speak of motives of the giver. Yes, motives matter. To this day, religious givers dole out their religion with the rice (or bread or whatever). Not always, but it's disgusting when it happens.

40. A Response to Jonathan Haidt

Comment #69852 by heathen2 on September 13, 2007 at 2:10 am

As far as the response to Haidt, I am so impressed by Sam's excellent writing skills. Yes the humor really helps, too. I was a semi-weak atheist until I read The End of Faith. Now I'm addicted to this website!

41. A Response to Jonathan Haidt

Comment #69848 by heathen2 on September 13, 2007 at 2:01 am

Regarding Comment #69833 by fides_et_ratio

'I'm sick of hearing comments that religious people give more time, money and blood to charity.'

If I was you I'd be sick of it too. That sort of thing must really shake the faith of even the most ardent atheist.

As an atheist, at least I can say that my charity is unfettered (no reward in the next life needed, thank you). I give it with a clear conscience. I don't know if the theist can separate his giving from what he thinks god wants or expects him to do. And he is expecting some reward for behaving so generously. Those are not good motives in my opinion. Well, Professor Dawkins covered this issue, and with much more elegant phrasing than I have.

42. The Fleas Are Multiplying!

Comment #69320 by heathen2 on September 10, 2007 at 9:53 pm

Here is the book description of the latest flea:

The popular and bitter attacks on Christianity continue to escalate in the form of national bestsellers such as The God Delusion, Letter to a Christian Nation, and others. Given the momentum these "new atheists" have gained, it seems as though they are making a powerful case against Christianity. How can those who are believers respond?

In The Truth Behind the New Atheism, author David Marshall examines the wrong concepts of God that are being promoted today. Among the questions he deals with are...

Is the God of the Bible a cruel savage?
Has science refuted the Christian faith?
Has the Bible hurt the human race?
Is the Christian life based on nothing more than blind faith?
As he refutes the critics, Marshall offers powerful arguments in defense of Christianity—arguments that will enable readers to respond to this new confusion with great confidence and biblical accuracy.

Too funny. Especially the part about "Is the God of the Bible a cruel savage?" I can tell you the answer based on the christian bible: a resounding yes. Plus Dawkins already answered that with a lovely description of the OT god in TGD.

43. The Rise of Atheist America

Comment #68833 by heathen2 on September 8, 2007 at 10:22 pm

And nearly half of Americans, according to a recent Gallup poll, would be willing to vote for an atheist for president of the United States of America

It just struck me that we should be viewing this from the "glass half full" perspective.

The believers are really scared. Dawkins is selling t-shirts, be afraid, be very afraid!

44. Bible Belter

Comment #68828 by heathen2 on September 8, 2007 at 10:08 pm

prettygoodformonkeys,

Congratulations on the birth of your grandchild!

45. The Fleas Are Multiplying!

Comment #68827 by heathen2 on September 8, 2007 at 10:01 pm

rationallady,

I think there is a good reason there are so many religious and spiritual books out there compared to books on science. The former are devoid of substance, anyone can write one pretty much. The latter actually requires knowledge, scholarship, research and time.

I do find it irritating that bookstores have to give so much shelf space to the spiritual books. I am even more annoyed by bookstores shelving anti-theist books in the "Religion" section. I think those belong in the "Philosophy" section more appropriately.

46. The Fleas Are Multiplying!

Comment #68774 by heathen2 on September 8, 2007 at 2:12 pm

Lauregon,

I concur with your opinion. I speak from the perspective of someone who did not have a religious upbringing, and I find that I have read a LOT more religious books and generally know so much more about religion and belief than nearly every believer I have ever met.

Most believers of my aquaintance, especially the christian ones, are so woefully ignorant of their own religion, we won't even bring up the issue of comparative religions.

47. The Fleas Are Multiplying!

Comment #68754 by heathen2 on September 8, 2007 at 12:43 pm

Furthermore, why would the religious reader of Harris and Dawkins want to read a response to a book they have never read?

It seems people read responses to books they have not read in order to validate their own view.

I was speaking to friend a while back who insisted on not reading the Da Vinci Code because of the "sick and twisted" assesrtions made in the book regarding the church and Jesus (I had lent her the book to read). This was based on her reading of some books recommended by her church that "refute" the Da Vinci Code. It is fiction, I tried to tell her, but to no avail. She was dead set against reading it and was outraged by all the "harm" it had done. I nearly said "I think your religion is fiction too", but I suspect that we would not be friends anymore.

I wonder how many people are like my friend, they read the fleas and get outraged enough not to read the original.

48. The Fleas Are Multiplying!

Comment #68626 by heathen2 on September 8, 2007 at 12:39 am

I will not buy a single flea book. Maybe peruse them if available at the library, but that's all. The same old worthless counter arguments are just boring and I don't have that kind of time to waste anymore.

49. Interview with BHA President Polly Toynbee

Comment #68277 by heathen2 on September 6, 2007 at 3:34 pm

This is off the topic of Polly, but since fides brought up catholic stuff, I was wondering if anyone could verify something I have heard. Is it true that the priestly orders are funded by the catholic church, but that the nun orders have to finance their own operations (such as schools, charities and the like)?

I just noticed that while I was attending a boarding school run by nuns that they were always strapped for money. That never made sense to me, especially given the wealth of the church.

50. Interview with Richard Dawkins and John Cornwell

Comment #68274 by heathen2 on September 6, 2007 at 3:21 pm

Did Cornwell read the same book as the rest of us? I got angry listening to this. I can't imagine how Richard felt having to respond to it.

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