1. The Pagan Christ

Comment #102914 by dgr8test97 on December 23, 2007 at 11:22 pm

This is so rediculous. There is no historical record of Christ. Trust me, I have look. I love Confucianism. I once believed their was a Confucius, but when I went to China to look for historical records of him, I found none. Laotzu for sure doesn't exist either. I doubt Budhha ever existed. No concrete evidence of these people. I love all these "philosophies" but do I need to believe without evidence that they people exis. NO. I grew up. I wanted to believe they existed. I hoped they existed. But facts are facts. Christians need to take their head out ther a55 and admit it. Christianity will be better off for it.

2. Richard Dawkins on 'Have Your Say'

Comment #100280 by dgr8test97 on December 18, 2007 at 12:57 pm

The F** Taiping Rebellion Killed over 30 million people. That is more than Pol Pot, Stalin and Hilter combined. The Taipings were psuedo-christians. How many times do I have to say that. I just e-mailed Dan Dennett about the Taiping and I was concerned that he had never heard of them. 30 million. Let me say this again 30 million. So the Pope should say sorry for the Taiping's action too. Professor Dawkins, Sam Harris, Christopher Hitchens, and everyone on this site. Whenever, ever, ever, ever, someone brings up Stalin and Pol Pot bring up the Taiping. They killed more than these two combined. By FAr

3. An Open Letter to Richard Dawkins

Comment #97669 by dgr8test97 on December 12, 2007 at 1:53 pm

Diacanu
"Jesus, you Chinese dudes and your Mao apologia.
It's like how every Italian I've met tows the "Mussolini's only mistake was siding with Hitler", line.Give it up, I ain't biting the hook."

First off, I grew up hating Mao like all the uneduated people out there. Then something happened to me. It is called college. I studied under Fred Wakeman and Jon Spence--the top two Chinese historians in America. I don't think they are chinese. They look White to me. They are not appoligist, but rather they do not characterize people. You might want to check them out. By The Way, I went to China, to see his atrocities and talked to the people. If you think Mao was bad, you should check out the US involvement in China and the Kuomintang involment it China during the early 20th century.

So this site talks about proof knowledge and understanding the details of analysis. So why not do the same for understanding the Facts of Pol Pot, Mao, Stalin, and Hitler. These guys are people. Are they evil and pure evil, you can decide after reading about them. Did they have any accomplishments. Read and decide yourself. What you will see is Mao accomplishments out weight his wrongs. The Great Leap Forward was a failed economic policy--ala Andrew Jackson's famine causing policy--not an attempt at Genocide like Hitler's Holocaust.

Dawkins, Harris, Dennette, and Hitchens are getting killed in debates when these names are brought up. I am surprise they have not taken the opportunity to read up on these people to give more subtle responses.

Again, the biggest killer of chinese people in the last two Century are the British, the Japanese, and the Taiping Rebellion. NOT MAO. Read the history yourself, then talk trash.

I am as much Cambodian as Chinese and have nothing good to say about POl Pot. There is no evidence of any substantive accomplishment made by this man, and he went out to kill people. That was his goal. Both of these two killed my family members. Why would I be apologetic to Mao and not Pol Pot. Because, Mao's crimes are over exaggerated in the West and his accomplishments are diminished because the WEst fears China. ITS CALL THE YELLOW PERIL, read about it. You talk about evidence. Well read up on it.

Am I right that you have never taken a course of Chinese history or no anything about Chinese history except for what you see on TV.

I don't comment on Evolution or the Big Bang because I am not a biologist or a physicists. But I can write about Asian history because I spent 4 years studying it.

4. An Open Letter to Richard Dawkins

Comment #97550 by dgr8test97 on December 12, 2007 at 10:33 am

Stop this Mao, Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot bullshit.These are different people. Mao is not any of these guys. For 1, Mao is a winner. What he started is still around. Chinese people have a say Mao is 70% right and 30% wrong. People on this site and Dawkins should read up on Mao. A good place to start is Jonathan Spence of Yale or Fred Wakeman of UC Berkeley. Second, Mao biggest and only real horror committed was the Great Leap Forward. This was more akin to Andrew Jackson's bad economic policy than Pol Pot's death camp or Hitler's genocide, or Stalin's Labor Camp. I have studied the Holocaust extensive at the Holocaust Center of Northern California, the second biggest center in the US, with Holocaust survivors. I was a Chinese Studies major at Berkeley. My father's side of the family was murdered by Pol Pot. So let say I know a little bit about these people.

Of the four, Hitler is not an Atheist but a Catholic. Stalin I am not sure. Mao and Pol Pot were atheist. All ruled in a time when foreign powers were threatening and leeching off of their countries. This is the real common link between the four--not that they are atheist. What excuse do Christians have for their atrocities in good and bad times. Plus the worse atrocity committed in the last 200 years in China were done by the Japanese, the British, and the Taiping Rebellion. The Taiping Rebellion was a Christian movement lead by Hong Sau Chuen--otherwise known as Jesus's little brother. Taiping Rebellion killed over 30 million people. We are not sure how many people died in the Great Leap Forward.

Also, Sam Harris has the best example of the cruelty of religion: people doing stupid shit to themselves and their love ones. Examples, mutilation of the genatilia, no condoms in AIDS area, Stoning Adulters, and so forth. How many people have died because of this?

I have begged time and time again to get a Historian on this movement. That historian needs to set shit straight. Ideally the historian should be a communist expert since this links the Pol Pot, Mao, Stalin and Hitler (he was anti-commy).

So stop this Nonsense with these four guys somehow being on the same boat and being the most evil people in history. I do not put Mao on the list. Also, what the hell was the Catholic's churn's role in the genocide of the Americas? Where was the Pope during the Holocaust?

5. Daniel Dennett Debates Dinesh D'Souza

Comment #93539 by dgr8test97 on December 3, 2007 at 12:27 pm

Not to defend Mao, but Mao's retarded economic policy killed the tens of millions during the Great Leap Forward. The people died of starvation because the economic policy was terrible--not because Mao was sending soldiers to kill them ala Hitler, Stalin, and Pol Pot. This fact to me makes Mao a little different from the others. Remember Andrew Jackson's retarded economic policies starved thousands of Americans too.

6. Daniel Dennett Debates Dinesh D'Souza

Comment #93536 by dgr8test97 on December 3, 2007 at 12:23 pm

We need a Historian to talk about the 20th Century killing spree of the "Atheists" Mao, Stalin, Pol Pot, and Hitler. I have read a lot on these people and I have yet to here Dennett, Dawkins, or Harris answer this criticism well. The causes of their atrocity is much more complex and I have yet to read a quote from anyone of these guys that said "Atheism" is why I did what I did. Moreover, the one thing these guys have in common are the they were trying to build a society that would be able to defend itself against foreign invader.

A side note. Dinesh is trying to say that Atheism kills more than religions. That is bull shit. He forgets about the Reformation, the Crusade, the native American descruction, and the Wars between Hindhus and Muslims. Also, Harris, Dawkins, and Dennett do not know much about Chinese history. In the 1800s the Taiping Rebellion (headed by Jesus's little brother), killed over 30 million people. That alone is more than Hitler and Mao combined.

7. Banishing the Green-Eyed Monster

Comment #91863 by dgr8test97 on November 29, 2007 at 1:16 pm

Dawkins is wrong here. He is correct in that sexual jealousy is stupid, but he is missing the point. When someone gives his or her word to another person, he or she must keep that word. This is what cheating is about. If one is in a "open marriage" then one can have sex with any one wants without lying then it is not cheating. When a man marries a women (any relationship for that matter)and swears to the women that he would not have sex with someone else than he needs to follow up on it. Its that simple. I am anti-marriage and anti-monogamy because most people can't keep their vows. But if two people feel that the best way to express their love is through monogamy than more power to them. Cheating is about lying. Love is about sacrifice. If the sacrifice is no sex with third parties than so be it. Dawkins needs to think more poetically and less scientifically when it comes to love.

8. War in Heaven: Hitchens Meets D'Souza on Home Turf

Comment #81181 by dgr8test97 on October 24, 2007 at 11:07 am

Get off Mao. I guarantee that neither of these a55holes know anything about Mao. Mao is consistently trashed for his faults, deservingly so, but never praised for his accomplishments:

1) He drove out foreign influences--including Soviet

2)He kept the country from being cut up by the western power

3) He destroyed the Old Confucian class system and gave women more rights than they ever had in China

4) He defeated the Western Power in Korea

5) He held down Japan in China. His contribution to WWII is much more important than the French role and often on recognized in the West

There is a saying in China,"Mao is 70% right and 30% Wrong."

Without Mao, China would not be where it is today. And if in 25 years when China again reclaims it place as a world superpower (which it held for 90% of its history), then Mao would be the founding father.

Can Stalin, Hitler, Pol Pot, claim any of these achievements. Don't say Stalin defeated Hitler, he got lucky, his idiotic treaty was how Hitler got into Russia in the first place.

Also, understand if it weren't for the Christians--see Taiping Rebellion, Boxer Rebellion, The Europeans Carving up China, The Western Support of a Corrupt Kuomintang, there would be no Mao.

So people need to get off Mao's a55. As an overseas Chinese, I use to hate Mao's guts. My family was massacre by Pol Pot in Cambodia. I grew up thinking Mao and Pol Pot were Satin in human form. Having live in both Cambodia and China in the last 5 years, I still believe Pol Pot is the devil. But once I became as Chinese Studies Major at UC Berkeley, the top Chinese studies program in the nation, I began to look at Mao differently. Jonathan Spence and Frederick Wakeman are the two authorities in Chinese history in America. I have had the pleasure to take classes from both. Mao are critical of Mao, but no where as close as others who no nothing of the man.

So people on this site, if you want to trash Mao. Go ahead, but please do your research. If you kill a guy for his wrongs you must balance it out for what he did right. Without Mao, there may not be a China told. The longest lasting country in the world would have been dissected by the West and Japan.

PS. I am not defending Mao, but trying to keep Mao's discussion honest. He is vilified in the West, but somewhat idealized in the East. The main reason was he lay the smack down on the Whiteman

9. Debate between Michael Shermer and Dinesh D'Souza

Comment #80933 by dgr8test97 on October 23, 2007 at 3:05 pm

"Son of a....
D'Souza worked for Reagan, dated Coulter, was biographer for Falwell...notice how all these frigging people interconnect like some twisted game of 6 degrees of Kevin Bacon?
I imagine them all at a meeting at the Legion Of Doom, and Dracula is there going "let's get rid of all the hippies!! Blah!!". worked for Reagan, dated Coulter, was biographer for Falwell."

That is just plain wrong. WTF is wrong with this guy? That is just plain disgusting. Of the three, I don't know which one is the most disgusting. Next thing you going to say is that he frequents the bathrooms with Larry Craig, or get massages with Homeboy from Colorado.

We need to get George Carlin debating D'Souza.

Homeboy is Indian, why the hell is his name D'Souza?

10. Debate between Michael Shermer and Dinesh D'Souza

Comment #80872 by dgr8test97 on October 23, 2007 at 9:32 am

D'Souza is fuck1n sellout to the up tenth degree. Christianity has been in India long before it spread to Western Europe (outside the Mediterranean that is). India had rejected Christianity for centuries until the Guns came. This A-hole is making sh1t up about China as well. China likewise has had Christianity way before Western Europe, they too have rejected it until the Guns came. There is a saying in China "Christianity came to us from a barrow of a gun, Buddhism came to us on the Back of an Elephant."

I am from Asia. I can tell you must people become Christians because they are sell outs. They care not about the spirituality but more about fitting in to the whole Western ideal of Modernity. Western of course being American. With old social networks destroyed by Modernization, Asians are looking for something that can bind them, and those A-hole Christians are all over the universities trying to convert lonely kids. If the USA was a poor pathetic country...NO ONE in Asia would be a Christian. It is a status symbol over there. Well Except for Korea where those sell outs are crazy. But other than Korea, Asians do not go to Christianity to find spirituality, they do it because it is marketed as Modernity.

Anyways, Shermer, Hitchens, Hawkins, and to a much lesser extent Harris need to read up on world history. In these debates where A-hole like D'Souza, make shit up about how shitty the world was before the spread of Christianity and how great Christianity brought democracy and liberty to people all over the world. BullSh1T!!!!!!!!! Tell the Africans, Native Americans, Aboriginies, Chinese, Indians, and many others about the liberties Christianity brought.

Oh Yeah about Equality, D'Souza women did not get equality until the Equal Rights Amendment of 1960s. Gays are still not treated as equal. Blacks and Mexicans are treated as crapp (look at our prison system). Christian Southerner are among the most racist people in the world. So don't give me this crap about Christianity about peace and equality.

90% of places where Muslim and Christians went in the past, they brought with them war, intolerance, slavery, and destruction of culture.

If I were to randomly select 100 Atheist out of a group of 1000000 atheist and 100 Christians out of 1000000 Christians chances are there will be more A-hole, bigot, sexist, and power hungry among the Christians than the Atheists.

11. Debate between Richard Dawkins and John Lennox

Comment #76334 by dgr8test97 on October 5, 2007 at 2:29 pm

Dawkins and Harris should only debate guys like Lennox with George Carlin batting cleanup. Sometime Dawkins need to take the Erudite hat off and get dirty. How do you know your wife loves you? What a stupid question. As Carlin would say about the sun, it helps that I can see it..Ah Ha, Ah Ha. And if you need faith to know if your wife loves you or not, then you must not be getting any.

12. The Flea Circus Invites a Newcomer!

Comment #60338 by dgr8test97 on August 1, 2007 at 4:06 pm

"The Wee Flea"

Hey, I know a lot of people here worship anything that criticizes religion no matter how they do it. But I am not one of those. I enjoyed "God Delusion" I enjoyed "Letter to a Christian Nation," I have only had a chance to skim "Breaking the Spell," but enjoy what I have read.

I detest Christopher Hitchens. I think he is a fake. I have seen him get torn up when he debates people who have relevant expertize. I skim "God is Not Great" and do not care for it. So not all of us worship these Atheist authors.

I think George Carlin should be on this site. I think he is the wittiest of all the Atheists.

The only thing I worship is the Sun.

BTW, what this site needs is a Historian to write a book about religious history. What I have noticed on these books are that the authors have a general grasp of history but not a deep understanding of history.

13. CNN Debate on Koran in Toilet

Comment #60224 by dgr8test97 on August 1, 2007 at 10:44 am

Wow. 3 despicable people talking about intellectual honesty and freedom of speech.

1) Hitchens- A lier who links Zen Budhism to Japan's 1940s aggression when we know it was Shintoism. This is a man who believes Iraq has WMD and that Mao Zedong went to plan and systematically kill 30 million Chinese ala Hitler killing 6 million Jews.

2) Dennis Prager- This guys does hate Muslims and the site that he supports is Racist. The reality is in this country, some do use Islam as a vehicle for Racism. One must listen intensively to see what are legitimate criticism and what are plain racism. As an Asian-American, I deplore communism, but many people use communism to hide their hate.

3)I don't know who that other guy is but if putting a Koran in the Toilet is intimidating then what do call blowing up 3000 year old Buddhist and Hindu Statues? Also, scum like Hitchen and Prager have good points when talking about the Cartoons. This man does not address the cartoons. BTW, I see Muslims all the time wearing jeans with a satirical Budhha on them and this doesn't seem to bother the Muslims, but put Mohomad there and you got problems.

CNN and the media are not interested in having good debates, well not orderly debates at least. They have these idiots and scum come out and yell at each other. I for one hope one day we actually get a good debate or should I say civil debate since Religion does not have a foot to stand on.

I like Harris and Dennetts style of debate. All the debates I see them in end up with the other side viscously giving personal attacks.

BTW the real intimidation is this: Muslims today of every race are intimidating there neighbors world wide.

Muslim Separatists are blowing people up, in Russia (White muslims), in Europe (Turkish Muslims), China (Chinese Muslims), Thailand (Thai Muslims), Fillipines (Pacific Islander Muslims), Nigeria (Black Muslims), the list goes on. This is intimidation that know one wants to talk about. BTW in many of these countries I listed above, there are many religious groups that are persecuted, but few resort to violence as Muslims do.

14. The Flea Circus Invites a Newcomer!

Comment #60207 by dgr8test97 on August 1, 2007 at 10:09 am

Does any here know if any of these guys have anything intelligent to say? Also, why are all these guys WASPs?

Why does this God conflict always between the Rationalist and the Christians? I mean once in a while we get a Jew and a Muslim in there, but where are the Buddhists, Taoist, Shintoists, and Hindus? Keep in Mind these other religion make up over 1 Billion follows, many of whom read and write English.

Hell I take a Scientologist and Devil Worshipper just to see if they have anything new to say.

I doubt it, but as a rationalist, I like to make sure all the i's are dotted and t's crossed.

15. Susan Blackmore interviews Dan Dennett

Comment #58327 by dgr8test97 on July 24, 2007 at 1:27 pm

"Philosophy is what people do before they can ask the Right Question."

I love Dennett. I have been saying this here and got trashed for it, but if you want to learn something learn science and math. Philosophy and humanities (as academic disciplines), they are great to do in one's spare time, but I am not sure what great knowledge about the world one can get from them. Granted these discipline ask great preliminary questions about the world, but their answers are not very good.

I started my college life studying the humanities. Then I went on to focus on philosophy. By the end, I lost all hope for these fields as an academic disciplines. I agree with Dennett that I found myself learning more things from and enjoying the company of none philosophers...especially the ones in the sciences.

16. Town Hall Seattle: God Is Not Great

Comment #57872 by dgr8test97 on July 21, 2007 at 6:52 pm

" TIKI AL on July 21, 2007 at 9:38 am
The slave that Jefferson allegedly had sex with could have been a blatent social climber or early version of Nicole Smith.

Perhaps multiple Satanic field hands forced Jefferson to have sex with her at machete point.

Or he could have merely tripped and fallen on top of her while excited.

The above have the same historical proof as saying he raped her. None"


It's call inductive reasoning. As a wise sports commentator once said, "If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, It ain't a mongoose."

How many slaves do you think voluntarily had sex with the mastas?

BTW Jefferson is a hypocrite. Who is worst, someone who owns slaves because he knows that it is right and even commanded by his God or someone who knows it's wrong, tells others that it's wrong, and then goes on to not only have many many slaves but also have sex with them?

This is a hypocrite.

17. Town Hall Seattle: God Is Not Great

Comment #57725 by dgr8test97 on July 20, 2007 at 7:43 pm

Boy,

There are some strange characters on this site. Many scientist are still working to see what his going on in the human brain and body under mediation yet people on this site seem to know what is going on. Look, all I am saying is that these are amazing feet. There are not magical, but still amazing. We can learning something from them or we can figure out once and for all its nonsense. But need to look.

People have trashed me for showing that Buddhist mediation can lead to really amazing mental and physical acts. I never ever ever said they were magical but to my knowledge no one has been able to make their body immune to pain from heat or cause their body to manage its own heat despite the freezing weather outside other than these monks. It something we should study. I think we can learn a lot. But its just a hunch. A hypothesis based on observations.

However, Hitchens has flat out lied about Buddhism's role in Japanese aggression in WWII and no one is calling him on this. Understand not one Monk was in the Japanese leadership. Not one person claimed the Buddha told him to kill innocent infidels. Can Islam and Christianity say this about their God during the Crusades? No. I mean we had warrior Monks defending the holy land for God sake. How can Hitchen mistaken Shitoism and Buddhism. He than adds on this lie by saying Buddhism was the state ideology. Not true.

Hitchens has lie in the past before. He still tells people Iraq has WMD. Yet so many people trust his words on this site and grill me as if I had said I talk to God.

Why such love for Hitchens? What has this man ever done? What great knowledge has he ever produced? Do people simply support him because he is an atheist/anti-theist?

18. Town Hall Seattle: God Is Not Great

Comment #57710 by dgr8test97 on July 20, 2007 at 5:04 pm

Wrought,

You are missing my point. I know people can do strange things under hypnosis, but hypnosis is done from without and not from within oneself. If we can turn on and off the pain receptors like those Vietnamese monks did I think that will be quite a scientific breakthrough. That all I am saying. Is this possible. I don't care if its Buddhist, Atheist or not. I am not saying I want to learn how to lite myself on fire and not feel pain, what I am saying how can consciously turn off my pain receptors.

But I think this blog is going the wrong way. And its my fault. But I would like to turn people's attention to the point that Hitchens is saying that Budhhism energized the Japanese in the same way that Islam and Christianity energized the Crusaders is absolutely false. Hitchens starts out talking about the emperor of japan being a god and then moves to say that is a Zen Buddhist belief, which is totally wrong. The emperor God is a Shinto Belief. You can turn to one of my other post to see what was going on with Japanese Ideology during WWII.

Hitchens has a history of making things up or misrepresenting the facts to across his political agenda. He is no expert on anything, so one needs to questions much of his claims. I am not sure if he errors on purpose or he errors because he is just not informed.

I would refer people who loves this guy to go through his books and articles and check for factual accuracy. Also, look at this debates with Donner about the Iraq war. He was taken to the cleaners.

19. Town Hall Seattle: God Is Not Great

Comment #57682 by dgr8test97 on July 20, 2007 at 2:36 pm

Rtambree,

Magicians are illusionist. These gyms are not illusionists. They actually did these things. Are you suggesting that NG was part of the sham? Hey we differ on what is amazing, but I would love to be a throw a pin like that. Critical mines can disagree on matters of opinion.

But do you think sitting in freezing sub -40F weather of a whole night is amazing? Can we learn anything useful from being able to do that?

What about burning oneself alive without feeling pain? Can the ability to negate pain be useful? Hey on my death bed if I can be as calm as those monks in Vietnam, I would die a happy man.

You did hit it on the head. There is nothing Buddhist about these acts other than it was the Buddhist monks who were the first to do it. But the question is can we learn anything about these acts? I find these things fascinating. But no one to my knowledge has ever said that modern science can tell us how an individual can lite himself on fire without as much as blinking. This is a trick I would love to learn, even if it took me my whole life to figure it out.

20. Town Hall Seattle: God Is Not Great

Comment #57678 by dgr8test97 on July 20, 2007 at 2:20 pm

Sam Harris made a point that few here or Hitchens understands. Can we somehow pinpoint a religion as a cause of certain crimes? Can we say that the Crusades were cause by religion? Well we have ample evidence from personal memoirs and public declarations that said religion was a cause of the Crusades.

Did Mao or even Stalin ever say that their atheism was why they committed the crimes that they commit?


The Japanese during WWII did what they did because the West had put together a great template for world dominance. Japan wanted to mimic them. It was killed or be killed. Once they figured this out, then they went on to build the Shinto/Facist foundation of their ideology. But make no mistake , Records show that that Buddhism was not what cause Japan to commit its atrocity. Tojo, Hirohito, and Yamamoto never said the Buddha told them to eradicate infidels. Why won't Hitchens supporter prove me wrong on this. Hey I might be wrong. Maybe Hirohito did get messages from the Buddha telling him to trash Buddhism for Shintoism and go on to destroy the lands where Buddhism prospered.

As I said time and time again. There are plenty of occasions when Buddhist monks did terrible things and truly believed that their religion told them to do these things, but WWII was not one of those times. Hitchens is a fraud. Wake up.

21. Town Hall Seattle: God Is Not Great

Comment #57667 by dgr8test97 on July 20, 2007 at 1:51 pm

Wrought,

I did not get isolation thing from the NG link above but I have seen the NG link you post. My point is the is worse off, but he isn't crazy. That is my point. Prisoners locked up in the hole, routinely go insane and they are not technically isolated and they are there for weeks not years. When I was in Yunan Province in China, I went to this monastery on the edge of a cliff in overlooking Kunming. The temple was a small but beautiful temple. My professor, a Berkeley professor who film a documentary on the First Emperor of China's tomb for the Discovery Channel, told me that a Monk built this temple over a 16 year period.I believe 300 years ago. He did so because he wanted to be left alone. Other monks in that area today claimed they have meditated for years alone as well. These people may not be the brightest, most informed people, but they were not crazy. That is my point. How can one live alone for so long without going insane? Even if you can out physically and mentally weaken, how can you not go crazy? Again I love to see Randi do this.

22. Town Hall Seattle: God Is Not Great

Comment #57664 by dgr8test97 on July 20, 2007 at 1:40 pm

1) Links to the pin piercing glass is below

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3543945594094955238

I would love to see Randi see what these guys do are fraudulent. I saw it live.


The monks who lite themselves on fire was in protest to the US and South Vietnamese bombing the hell out of the temples. Look up the pictures online. Or go to Saigon's museum. See whereas Muslims would become suicide bombers, Buddhist turned to peaceful protest. You can read Tibetan history also to see what they did there. Again what makes this unbelievable is that the monks did not even blink while being burnt alive. I challenge Randi to do this. I challenge anyone to this. Remember the point is these monks did not so much as blink.

2) I don't have a source for the Himalayan Tibetan monks meditating in the -40F. I saw it on TV. But if you doubt it, maybe e-mail Sam Harris. I saw this a while back. I believe it was Harvard MS that link up electronic devices on these monks to see what was happening. It was an episode with that also showed neurologically what was going on in the brain of a sharp shooter.

I never said any of these things were magic. How many time do I have to repeat myself. I said these guys figured something out about the human body that needs to be explored. If indeed they are fraudulent then prove it. I would love for anyone to prove points 2) and 3. i pay big bucks to see Randi lite himself on fire and not even blink. Remember they found these monks body. They were dead. This was not a trick.

BTW wish you guys question Hitchens as much as you do me maybe you can see him as the fraud he is. Look up Zen Buddhism, see where in its doctrine is there a Sun God who's human form is the emperor of Japan. And show many any proof that there are WMDs in Iraq.

23. Town Hall Seattle: God Is Not Great

Comment #57633 by dgr8test97 on July 20, 2007 at 11:11 am

Guys,

Sorry for yesterday. I was writing between stressful meetings. I guess I was not making myself clear.

1) The fact that monks can lite themselves on fire and not even blink, throw a pin through glass(It's a household pin. National Geographic confirmed it.), and sit in -40F weather for hours does nothing to confirm the supernatural claims of Buddhism. Nor do I think people should be commended for lighting themselves on fire. But these acts, when studied through the lens of science, can maybe push our understanding of the human mind and body. Think about it. If we can program our minds to not feel pain under the heat of being burnt alive or can control our body temperature in freezing sub -40F, what else can we do? Harvard is studying Tibetan monks to see how they can survive meditating outside in the freezing Himalayan nights. Turns out they can consciously control their body temperature under meditation. This is not magic. But Harvard has yet to figure out what is going on. There are many benefits to understanding these skills that these monks have. For example, if people who suffer from chronic pain could use meditation to train themselves not to feel pain like Vietnamese monks did, isn't that worth exploring? These are relevant scientific questions. No one burns themselves alive during war times does for entertainment nor go to the Himalayan mountains in the middle of the night with no one around and meditate for stunt. Again nothing here suggests absolute truth, and supernatural god, or any of religion's nonsense.


2) I implore people on this site to listen to Hitchens and to clearly research his claims and his motives for writing this and other books. This man routinely makes up facts or gives incomplete facts. He does so maybe because he lacks knowledge, or because he is dishonest. I would refer you all to his debate with Donner (forgot his first name) about the war in Iraq. Donner took him to school. The fact that he still spread the lie that Iraq has WMD tells you something about this man. I have heard him speak about religion, politics, economic policy, Chinese history, affirmative action, and of course Iraq. Of these fields, I can say I am a quasi-expert on Economics, Chinese History, and affirmative action and I can tell you he knows very little about these matters. What he knows he got from a newsstand, yet he is convinced that he knows everything. He has never ever ever had the expertise to make the claims he makes. Hitchens is always trying to push a political agenda. Though I agree with most of his political agenda, this site/movement is about getting people to think clearer and be more critically. Hitchens and Ali will pull this movement down a political path that it should not go. To me, Dawkins, Harris, and Dennette, seem truly concern with getting people to think critically. Ali and Hitchens seems to see a gravy train and want to climb aboard and stir this movement into politics. Just because they are anti-religion does not make them people we should associate ourselves with. I just have a weird suspicion that Hitchen and Ali will poison everything.

24. Town Hall Seattle: God Is Not Great

Comment #57532 by dgr8test97 on July 19, 2007 at 4:42 pm

Wrought,

I would love for Hitchens to take the challenge. I challenge any atheist to lite themselves on fire and die without as much as blinking. These monks did this during the Vietnam War. BTW I am an atheist.

I dare any atheist to go sit in sub 40 F wheather in the Himalayas for one night without freezing to death.

I dare any atheist to shatter 1cm thick glass by throwing a pin at it. The Shaolin Monks can do this and other things.

And yes, I have met a monk who was in seclusion for 15 years. He is ignorant to the world around him, but he wasn't crazy. Did some people go crazy being in isolation? yes. Did most? I don't know. But if I were to be isolated by my self for years in a row, I would love to know the Buddhist meditation. That way at least i have a chance.


I never said any of these things are magical. None of these monks are gods or semi-gods. There act might be explainable by physics and biology. But I leave that as a challenge to the scientist. I suspect that science will one day be able to explain some of these acts. That is why I said, let see what Buddism and all religions have to offer. Maybe they offer nothing. But lets do the research.

25. Town Hall Seattle: God Is Not Great

Comment #57527 by dgr8test97 on July 19, 2007 at 4:09 pm

My point with Hitchens is you need to be an expert to talk about facts, because you can give a complete account of the facts. Harris can go all day talking about neuroscience and religion. Dennett can talk about the history of religious thought. Dawkins can talk about the origin of species.

What can Hitchens talk about? If Hitchens wants to talk about how religion is not logical, go ahead. But to make ridiculous and false facts up to get applauses is wrong. This site is about facts. Harris never said reincarnation is fact. He said people are correct be skeptical of it. But Hitchens claims Buddhism was the state religion of Japan during WWII and that is simply not correct. And I think he purposely put that in there knowing its inaccurate.

26. Town Hall Seattle: God Is Not Great

Comment #57525 by dgr8test97 on July 19, 2007 at 3:59 pm

"Even if Jefferson was a rapist, an obscene charge which you have no evidence for"

Yes all slaves that he had sex with did it out of love. Doesn't take a genius to make the link. If having sex with a minor who can't legally consent is rape, what do you call having sex with property? Can property consent? Come on. I never said he wasn't a genius. I said he was a hypocrite.

And, what makes Dennette special is he seems to understand science, I might be wrong since I am not one. Harris is a neuro-Scientist. Dawkins is a Biologist. All know facts. All train in facts. I am really not sure what training Hitchens has.

Calling Buddhism the Ideology of Japan is idiotic and not fact based. He is just trying to make a point that Buddhism is just as bad as the Abrahamic religions. Which I might buy, if I was a 3rd grader. He uses Japan because it touches a nerve with Americans. But the reality is Japan hated Buddhism during that time. They may have taken some minor aspects of it, but it was not state Ideology. Monks were persecuted. The Sun God in the form of the Japanese Emperor was never a Buddhist idea. That was Shinto. If Hitchens did any real research he'd know. Japan at the time hated China. They thought they were a superior race. Thus they wanted to disavow everything that is Chinese and claimed everything indigenous to Japan as superior. Shinto therefor was superior. Does this sound like Nazi Germany?

My point is if you want to rat on Buddhism, go ahead. There is plenty to rat on. Just don't make shi7 up to get Americans hype.

27. Town Hall Seattle: God Is Not Great

Comment #57484 by dgr8test97 on July 19, 2007 at 1:54 pm

Rtambree,

Buddhism has developed meditation to a point where people are able to do strange super human things under meditation: Tibetan monks meditation in -40 F weather, Vietnamese monks burning themselves alive without feeling pain, monks living in isolation for decades without going mad, shaolin monks throwing needles that can shatter glass, among other things. We need to know what is going on.

I don't need to tell you about martial arts and their effective use in hand to hand as well and weapon to weapon combat.

All I am suggesting is we need not throw away the baby with the bath water. Meditation is Budhism's biggest bright spot. We need to explore it without the whole reincarnation and all that other Mumbo Jumbo. I am sure the Abrahmic religion has something to offer.

28. Town Hall Seattle: God Is Not Great

Comment #57469 by dgr8test97 on July 19, 2007 at 12:53 pm

Rtambree,

I just have to refer you to Sam Harris and Dan Dennette. Correct me if I am wrong but don't these guys propose we study religion, learn what we can from them, and extract what is practical. Much of religions ceremonies, music, art,and are quite remarkable. I am not suggesting that Buddhism is the way to go. Read Sam Harris's article about killing the Buddha. All I am trying to say is that Hitchens is not that smart, have political axes to grind, and do not support the idea of intellectual honesty. Moreover, he is not an expert on anything. As Matt Damien once said (I am paraphrasing), "I can get a better education for 1 Buck 50 and late charges at the library." All he knows is superficial information about a lot of things that he read at a local newstand. The man still believes there is WMD is Iraq. Talk about faith

29. Town Hall Seattle: God Is Not Great

Comment #57458 by dgr8test97 on July 19, 2007 at 12:16 pm

USA Limey,

Yes English is my second language. But I went to Berkeley. Did pretty well in school and now help write courtroom testimony. My grammar sucks and my words are incoherent because I am at work trying to sneak in to chat between meetings. So be harsh away. But just provide information as accurate as you know them to be. Please enlightenment me about Buddhism's violent history. I know there some, but maybe missing some. We can compare death counts with Islam if you want.

30. Town Hall Seattle: God Is Not Great

Comment #57456 by dgr8test97 on July 19, 2007 at 12:13 pm

Thrall,

I get your comment and I understand your point. And am grateful for your comments. I am saying they are all bad and are not needed, but I am also saying is that they are not equally destructive. Harris is on point when he calls for us to pull what we can from religion. There are good things we can get from them without taking their ridiculous superstitions: meditation and kungfu/martial arts are examples. My point is that this website and this whole anti-religion thing that we go going is about intellectual honesty. Harris, Dennette, and Dawkins seems to be intellectually honest, or at least try to be, especially Dennette, and out to get people to think clearer. Hitchens and Ali are out to gravy train this movement with their bias information and political views. Hitchen's is so arrogant about knowing things when his background is that he knows nothing. He is not an expert on anything. He tries to push political agendas and at times make up information to do it. This is not what this movement is about. You should see some of his debates against Donner. Donner takes him to task about Iraq. Hitchens to this day thinks Iraq has WMDs. If so, he can go there and find it himself. On the way he can go and say hi to the archaeologists looking for Noah's Arch. I went to Berkeley for my BA in Economics and Asian Studies. I have seen this man live making ridiculous claims about economics and China. He takes rudimentary economics hypothesis that he read in some begining economics class and push them as sophisticated facts. He take superficial information about China and pushes them as if it were comprehensive.

My fear is that in our fight against dogma and religion, we take with us unsavory intellectually dishonest people like Hitchens and Ali, who will poison everything (pun intended)

31. Town Hall Seattle: God Is Not Great

Comment #57436 by dgr8test97 on July 19, 2007 at 10:54 am

Hitchens is an arogant idiot. What is his degree in? One of those BS humanities degree? What expert is he to speak so far ranging? Compare his credentials to Sam Harris, a scientist who studied religion and philosophy academically and personally. Or compare him to Richard Dawkins, one of the greatest biologist alive. Or Dan Denette an sophisticated orator and philosopher who has spent his whole life studying human psyche.

Hitchens and Ali are too people this site should disavow. Hitchens makes the following error in his argument, some of which Harris got right:

1) Not all religions are the same. Does Buddhism have times of extreme violence. Yes...Every 300 years or so in China but Frequently in SouthEast Asian. I'll let the educated ones in this site see the difference between Buddhism worldwide. Let see the violence of Islam and Christianity. These two religion bring violent with them almost everywhere they go and violent involving them within and against other religions. The Chinese have a say: Buddhism came to China on the back of an elephant, Christianity came on the a war gun boat. Please note that the Taiping Rebellion is the most horrific and deadly civil war in World History. 30+ million died. Guess who headed this rebel force? So are there violent Buddhism. Yes. Is it as frequent as the Judeo-Christian religions. No. Does degree of violence matter, yes. Where Budhism is violent compare to where it isn't gives us a good data sample to see what in Buddhism makes it violent. Can we do the same experiment with Christianity or Islam. No.Does Budhism have ridiculous claims yes. Should we believe in these claims? No. Can Buddhist meditation and kungfu help us in our daily life without us believing in the supernatural nonsense? Yes. Is it as violent as the other relgions? No. Am I a Buddhist? No. As Sam Harris says Kill the Buddha when you see him.


2. Japan's religion in WWII is not Buddhism you fuk1N Idiot. It was Shintoism. The Sun God is a Sinto thing not a Zen Buddhist thing. I happened to have studied Chinese/Japanese History in College and was a Docent at the Northern California Holocaust Center. I know a little bit about Japan's role in WWII visa vi Germany. Japan was trying to rid itself of Chinese influence believing they were the pure race which was negatively influenced by the Chinese culture..including Buddhism. Does this pure race doctrine sound like Zen Buddhism? As a matter of fact, the Japanese wanted to rid Buddhism out of its school curriculum in the 1920s. So Do you history research, Hitchens.

3. Hitchens fuk!N heroe,Jefferson, was a fuk!N slave owning rapist. Did he do a lot of good things, yes. Did he have good ideas? Yes. Was he a good man? No way.

So Hitchens needs the FUK off and not gravy train off of Harris, Dennette, and Dawkins.