1. Fleas on the Horizon: In Defense of God

Comment #138433 by Yorker on March 4, 2008 at 10:08 am

What species of creature would write a book entitled "The End of Reason"? Not a human being surely? It's clear to me that all humans who manage to live from one day to the next use reason as their main means of ensuring survival! Why on earth anyone would want to write a book with such an idiotic title is, thankfully, beyond my understanding. Indeed, why anyone would waste time reading any kind of non-evidential flea book is also beyond my understanding. If such a book produced evidence for any kind of God it would instantly become the best book ever written, no such book ever will produce evidence; no such book will ever say anything at all that would cause me to re-evaluate my stance on religion; I will never learn anything at all from such a book, such books are completely without value.

No matter how well written; no matter how witty the anecdotes; no matter who wrote it; no matter how many copies are sold, if no evidence in support of the god-claim is produced, such garbage is a waste of paper. Crap presented in beautiful prose is still crap and certainly not worthy of my attention. I can see no "reason" to waste precious lifetime on fictional books that pretend to be non-fiction. I generally don't often buy works of fiction but when I do, they have the honesty to say so up front!

Religion and its apologists are detrimental to humanity; it's as simple as that. My goal is to see all religious influence be removed from public life. I'm convinced that debating religion, for or against, is a complete waste of time; it's time for action, we must fight religion wherever we find it, preferably before we all die bleating about it!

2. A match made on RichardDawkins.net?

Comment #128286 by Yorker on February 16, 2008 at 5:00 pm

Many thanks to all for your good wishes towards Veronique and myself.

This so far short year has been the best and worst in my life, I am about to lose my daughter who is in the final stages of small cell ovarian cancer, the tremendous support of my dear Veronique has given me the strength to face this disaster with a courage I would have found impossible to muster alone. It made me realise the value of love.

Best regards

Yorker.

3. The Problem with Atheism

Comment #75635 by Yorker on October 3, 2007 at 7:18 am

We label Intelligent Design supporters as Creationists with a new name. Religites will say:

"Those people (insert name here) are just atheists with a new name".

They will do so rightly, but only if your new name becomes well enough known to be talked about. The chances of that I estimate, are close to zero. Some people on this site are almost entirely detached from reality, a sorry bunch.

Not a fight huh? Do you think religion will be ousted from political influence by reason or nice words? Of course it's a fucking fight, that's how we humans ultimately settle our differences! Look around you!

We have yet to grow out of this perhaps we never will, but the plain fact remains that if talk doesn't work we apply the ultimate sanction: violence; individuals who live in reality and governments, understand that fact. The people here have clearly demonstrated their ability to talk but that's all, I see nothing whatever to make me think you'll ever DO anything. Your effect will be therefore zero. Best leave it to other outfits I need not name who at least can agree with each other and have a common policy of activism. You guys just carry on trying to score brownie points with each other.

Anyhow, all has turned out well for me with the upcoming project so I'll be off in the next few days. I might look in here from time to time to gauge the level of deterioration, but I won't post.

To all those who think as I (I won't mention individuals, you know who you are) I bid farewell, it was a pleasure to talk with you and hear your thoughts. To those deluded atheists who don't even know what they are, I say this. I hope life teaches you the lessons you badly need; there is much more I could, but won't, say.

Your friend and enemy,

Yorker.

4. The Problem with Atheism

Comment #75587 by Yorker on October 3, 2007 at 5:02 am

Nice to see I'm being attacked before I make a comment, I take that as a sincere compliment or at least an excellent indicator that I'm having an effect.

I haven't time to respond at length right now (better things to do) and I haven't fully read the Harris article. But on his worry over the word 'atheist', I disagree.

Most people don't know the meaning of or misunderstand the word 'theory', does that mean science should change the word to suit people too lazy to find out the correct meaning? I don't think so. Same with 'atheist', no need for change.

I like Sam Harris generally but he has a streak of 'woo woo' that lowers my opinion of him.

A quick word to all of you out there who clearly love me. If all goes well with the conference call I'm about to make, I will be away for a while. My son (an astrophysicist) and his group in Florida have invited me to consult on the design of a radio telescope they're going to build. So in an hour or two I'll know if I'm Florida bound (again), some of you will be almost as pleased at this news as I am!

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Comment #75372 by Yorker on October 2, 2007 at 12:14 pm

bayareadude

You're not alone in your assessment of RD. I said earlier that I know of one or two who would agree with you. I also know one or two who think RD is charming.

Not for a minute do I think you are wrong, something caused you to form that opinion, very likely someone else formed a totally different one. As long as you enjoyed the other speakers and the overall experience, perhaps you shouldn't worry too much about RD and certainly not let it damage your atheistic position as you mentioned in your first post.

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Comment #75342 by Yorker on October 2, 2007 at 11:26 am

307. Comment #75326 by Jack Rawlinson

Thanks for the report Jack, well put together and I appreciated your very non-reporter like, pro-atheism, pro-sock-it-to-them stance.

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Comment #75331 by Yorker on October 2, 2007 at 11:06 am

306. Comment #75256 by d4m14n

Thanks for the link! I'm not a rap fan myself but I must admire the work put into the song and the video.

The "halle-fuckin'-lujah" at the end, ya gotta love it!

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Comment #75162 by Yorker on October 2, 2007 at 12:33 am

300. Comment #75159 by d4m14n

THIS, is "variable".
..._ ._ ._. .. ._ _... ._.. .

Any Morse talkers here?

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Comment #75155 by Yorker on October 2, 2007 at 12:01 am

292. Comment #75119 by Robert Maynard

"As an endnote, I don't think the RRS do themselves any favours by explicitly setting themselves up against theism only (it's on the banner of their webpage for goodness sake). There are plenty of non-theistic irrational beliefs that need responding to. One can claim that theism is so widespread and so threatening to public policy that we have to prioritise, but why limit yourselves in any case?"

I'm trying to think of what was in your mind when you said that. They have jobs to do, they are not a full-time group, is getting rid of theism a small task? They clearly don't see it that way, don't you think that might just be a reason they limit themselves?

Incidentally, I've spent the last few nights going over their site, the more I see of it the more I like it. Many of the video and audio items are well thought through, well put togther, artistically engineered, well presented, display a high educational standard and are often very amusing. They are in short, entertaining as well as informative. These guys clearly understand the value of entertainment when you're trying to get a message across to the maximum number of people. A principle this site would do well to heed.

Let's get real for a moment, this is the RDF, it is set up as non-profit outfit looking for donations. How well is it doing? Could it do better and if so, how? I can't answer the first question, but I sure as hell could make a few suggestions on the second. But it's not my place to do so, the management may have plans I'm unaware of, but if they do they should be publicising them. People - especially Western capitalists - don't give money unless they see a goal ahead. The RRS evidently understand that well. Ask yourselves this question; who is raking in the most hard cash, RDF or RRS?

This site has already begun politicising with the 'Out Campaign', there are already spin-off blogs out there concentrating on it. As things progress more funding will be needed, this site is already fairly informative but it needs to become entertaining and have features that appeal to a much wider audience to get that funding.

I've been wrongly accused of being anti-educational so I'll close with a suggestion on it. It seems glaringly obvious that a weekly feature perhaps on evolution or any science subject aimed specifically at young people, would be a marvellous way of countering the increasing tendency towards nonsense we saw from the NI thing. RD would be an obvious candidate to get the ball rolling, guest experts could be approached to keep it rolling, even some people here might contribute articles, I myself have three main areas of expertise; there must be many of you similarly knowledgeable. Imagine each of us here putting the time we spend commenting into such a very worthwhile cause instead. Have the vision to see where this could go, imagine if we could get every school in the UK to give one period a week so that pupils could watch or listen to the regular RDF podcast.

Wouldn't that be something? Wouldn't that match the RRS? Wouldn't that act as a unifying force across the land and amongst ourselves here? Wouldn't the RDF and RRS doing their own thing but in concert become more than the sum of their parts?

That's my educational vision, aim it correctly make it friendly, and most of all, keep it simple and accurate.

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Comment #75063 by Yorker on October 1, 2007 at 2:44 pm

"That is my view also, and I have been utterly astonished that it [education] has received such a negative response from some here."

Talk about straw man bullshit! I cannot find a single post from anyone who was negative towards education. Saying that high education is not necessary for an atheist is NOT decrying education itself. Even a ten-year old reading this thread would grasp that!

Lame.

"You can take all I said as being 'in person'"

Even lamer!

Are you really trying to imply that writing the words 'in person' is the same or requires the same moxie as being there? Are you the only one in the world that is ignorant of the meaning of the common term 'in person'?

You know full well that Sapient was talking about a direct approach person to person, eye to eye. I understood that in the comment I made to him, not you. Incidentally, giving your full name does not change the fact you're hiding behind a monitor thousands of miles away where you feel safe and doesn't grant you any points for anything.

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Comment #74987 by Yorker on October 1, 2007 at 9:43 am

251. Comment #74869 by sapient

"However, for some odd reason not a single person came up to myself or any of the 17 other people we had there representing the Rational Response Squad to say a bad word. Why is this?"

You mention the "wimpyness" possibility in your next sentence. I think that's the most likely reason. I've made myself very popular by insulting those without spine who rail against you guys here and not at your own site.

I'd bet not many who were negative here, were negative on your site, indeed, I'd bet most never even visted your site to complain. Of course they could change their name but then that would be the height of spinelessness.

The most important thing must be that nobody said anything bad in person, what they write here is irrelevant and won't change how people feel about the RRS. Some of us here think you're doing a great job, myself included.

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Comment #74974 by Yorker on October 1, 2007 at 9:02 am

265. Comment #74959 by Ilovelucy

You upped a gear there didn't you! Well done!

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Comment #74973 by Yorker on October 1, 2007 at 8:57 am

261. Comment #74925 by steve99

Yes Steve, it's a simplistic statement that only an idiot or a person who like yourself, has an unstated agenda, would disagree with.

"I think this illustrates how, for at least some people, even those with the finest minds, it certainly does take education to become an atheist, and can require reading a book."

Pure poppycock!

That's equivalent to telling the normal average person they don't know what they're talking about! Where I come from, they wouldn't argue with you, they'd re-adjust your physiognomy! Clearly, you don't read well, I said in previous posts that I spoke with people not meeting your high standards who were atheists, either you think they're idiots, or you are! Which is it?

Frankly, your stupidity is beginning to annoy me.

Some years ago a cousin of mine, just an average non-religious young woman, lost a child of two years old; I well remember the words of her husband:

"We've never believed the God stuff, but right now I wish he existed, I want to strangle the fucker"

Three years later my cousin was herself dead of cancer. I have mentioned her before on this site for sentimental reasons. I mention her again now to illustrate just how fucking inhumane your wilful, stupid elitism is.

I know, you know, and anyone taking the trouble to read and analyse the comments on this thread alone, knows the real reason you keep making these nonsensical remarks.

Unlike Veronique, who has also noted your errors, I have no love at all for you, I think you're making an arse of yourself.

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Comment #74913 by Yorker on October 1, 2007 at 5:30 am

253. Comment #74877 by Veronique

Yes, that Ulster non-debate was a load of crap. The guy calling himself a scientist was behaving as an anti-scientist.

Dawkins should stop doing those shows, he's not a confrontational man and gets steam-rollered. I wanted to jump in saying;

"Step aside Richard, let me deal with the idiots"

Had that been Hitch, he would have used his simple and effective technique of pausing briefly then carrying on as if his point was not complete, the amplitude, but crucially not the pitch of his voice is increased simultaneously. This causes asshole moderators to pause and so he gets in, he counters more obstinate moderators by asking why they invited him if they won't let him speak. Lastly, his overall presence and timbre of his voice lets all concerned know that fucking with him would be unwise.

I said his technique but it's not his, I'm older than Hitch, he makes me feel robbed because I've been doing the same thing for years.

Dawkins is an amateur in these matters, they should perform as a team; he needs Hitch to take the role of 'Dawkins rottweiler'.

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Comment #74907 by Yorker on October 1, 2007 at 5:03 am

248. Comment #74846 by Sinful Messiah

This thread has brought to light several points not the least of which is the silly idea that a good education is is a prerequisite for atheism.

In order to embrace atheism it is NOT necessary to:


1. Be a scientist.
2. Be a philospher.
3. Hold ANY kind of educational certificate.
4. Visit this, or any other website.
5. Read ANY book on the subject.

From this irrefutable list, it's clear that atheism is not the domain of of the highly educated. The many discussions I've had with ordinary not very well-educated people, confirm it. They state the simple, most obvious and most powerful reasons in support of atheism; they don't disagree with more educated explanations, they see them as largely superfluous.

It doesn't take much brain-power to be a religite, likewise, it doesn't take much brain-power to see that God is bullshit.

I have realised this simple truth, hopefully many here have, you however, Simple Messiah, clearly have not; this post I reference and others you made indicate your need for a quick "brain-enema" before you make further elitist, obviously irrelevant remarks.

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Comment #74904 by Yorker on October 1, 2007 at 4:34 am

252. Comment #74870 by Richard Morgan

Yes, it's a common thing. The media is to blame for the celebrity shit people fall for. It comes as a shock to many when their heroes turn out to be human.

I've never met RD but I know one or two who have, and they give mixed opinions of him as a person. Personally, I'd never form an opinion of anyone based on another's feelings.

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Comment #74813 by Yorker on September 30, 2007 at 3:42 pm

Yes Veronique, have a good chortle, I stayed up too late last night and I'm totally knackered. Have a good time while I sleep, as you say, looks like reason won the day.

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Comment #74801 by Yorker on September 30, 2007 at 2:23 pm

210. Comment #74748 by madShelly

Are you still breathing after that chewing up you got? If so, there's something I forgot to tell you about spray-painting churches and atheist violence you mentioned.

I can show you at least three places in West Scotland where Catholic churches have the words "No Pope Here!" sprayed on them in huge letters. Nasty atheists? No, nice protestants.

We atheists have no need to kill religites, they do a great job of that themselves. Stop trying to encourage violence, you're despicable and really don't have a fucking clue.

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Comment #74789 by Yorker on September 30, 2007 at 1:02 pm

229. Comment #74784 by CruciFiction

Thanks for the link! I just had a nice dinner and the video was a nice dessert. I notice the RRS got a big plug there and I've no doubt they played a significant role in the numeric rise of atheism mentioned in the show. Not to detract in any way from the great efforts of DDHH (think about it).

Wonderist

It feels good to get some help from you and others, I was having to keep my posts short in order to deal with the number of jackals nipping at my heels. I take one big bite, you tear them into little pieces, very nice.

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Comment #74766 by Yorker on September 30, 2007 at 10:19 am

218. Comment #74760 by roach

You're like me Roach, I get the rush, I guess some people just feel the cold hand of fear, an evolutionary thing maybe. The minus aspect about web discussions is you can't look in the eye of your adversary and see the fear and discomfort, you have to gauge them in other ways. Hmmm...I'm giving the game away here, I'd best shut up but I'll close by saying an even better rush is to know you've made someone happy.

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Comment #74761 by Yorker on September 30, 2007 at 10:01 am

214. Comment #74755 by madShelly

Ah, in that case I apologise for assuming you were a woman, here in the UK, men don't normally have such names. Now I'm also really glad you have no desire to fuck some sense into me.

I just noticed that Teratornis has taken you to task for almost calling me "fucktard", what does that mean incidentally? I wouldn't call you such a name because I understand your anger stems from the fact you know I'm right on the RRS issue but are also aware of your inability to challenge me on it, vitriol is all you have. I didn't attack you pup, you attacked me, remember? I simply said what I thought of ALL who fail to take their complaints directly to the RRS, not you personally. I will of course, defend my statement against all-comers who challenge me on it. It was your fear of injury to religites that made me think you were one, you should care more about yourself, the record shows they're MUCH more likely to injure you!

Have a nice day, thanks for the fun!

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Comment #74757 by Yorker on September 30, 2007 at 9:39 am

212. Comment #74752 by Teratornis

"After all, Hitchens deliberately ingests and inhales psychoactive chemicals - substances with the power to change how the brain thinks!"

Most people who smoke started when it was the norm and health issues were not in the forefront of awareness.

It didn't prevent Einstein, Feynman, Dirac, Maxwell and countless other great thinkers and intellectual giants from making their huge contributions.

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Comment #74753 by Yorker on September 30, 2007 at 9:18 am

210. Comment #74748 by madShelly

My, you certainly are mad aren't you Shelley! But don't worry my dear I have no desire to "fuck any sense into you", be assured! But as I said on the post you refer to, "The View" did at one point have a woman I would've happily allowed to fuck some sense into me, as you desire! Now though, as others said, it's just a bunch of incredibly stupid women. Let me bolster your sexist labelling of me by saying I would add "unattractive" to that.

Malign me all you like if it makes you feel better, I'm not one of those mentally castrated men who fear the wrath of dozy and possibly religite women like yourself my dear.

To get to your main tirade, you are clearly one of those who fear telling the RRS what you think and pathetically hope to garner some support here, perhaps you'll get some, in the words of Hitchens, "bring it on"! Like him, I love the smell of confrontation and not just in the morning, any time day or night baby, just bring it on!

You seem to be hoping for a headline that reads:

"CRAZED ATHEIST SLAUGHTERS LOVELY CHRISTIAN"

Then you could leap up and down like a child throwing a supermarket tantrum yelling, "Told you so!, told you so!"

You sound young, take comfort in the fact you'll probably outlive me, until I die you'll just have to seethe and fume.

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Comment #74749 by Yorker on September 30, 2007 at 8:50 am

209. Comment #74741 by Ilovelucy

I credit you for that, sincerely.

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Comment #74739 by Yorker on September 30, 2007 at 7:46 am

206. Comment #74734 by Ilovelucy

Pushed for time but just wanted to say...a wise move.

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Comment #74726 by Yorker on September 30, 2007 at 6:17 am

201. Comment #74719 by Jack Rawlinson

Perhaps some would like to hear your thoughts on the convention Jack, why don't you tell us more?

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Comment #74724 by Yorker on September 30, 2007 at 6:11 am

To all of you out there who negate the RRS here, I say this.

Where are your balls? I say balls because you all seem to be men. RRS members at least have the balls to come here and defend themselves, even their women!

What you are doing is silly and cowardly.

Why berate them here? Why don't you go to their site and criticise them? Save yourselves the silly step of having to bullshit in a roundabout way! Pissing and moaning here would only have validity if that's all you could do, you have no validity, your enemy is next door, knock on it.

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Comment #74720 by Yorker on September 30, 2007 at 5:58 am

190. Comment #74666 by Russell Blackford

A very diplomatic and non-confrontational post Russell, perhaps typical of a philospher and one I have no problem with. You are not trying to thwart action and don't make pointless criticisms.

I wish your CAPAC success and hope you come up with ideas that people can take action on.

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Comment #74716 by Yorker on September 30, 2007 at 5:45 am

197. Comment #74699 by Ilovelucy

"..the Secular Society (founded 1866 lest we forget), even though many of the RRS supporters seem to think the RRS are the only people "doing something"

Thanks for the information. I honestly didn't know it was that old. But all it tells me is that an outfit 140 years old is completely ineffectual; it should be running the country by now! No doubt it's full of nice people though.

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Comment #74713 by Yorker on September 30, 2007 at 5:38 am

195. Comment #74687 by d4m14n

Well said.

You echo my thoughts and clearly the thoughts of an increasing number, nicely. This is all about winning the hearts and minds of the people who in general terms have very simple needs and desires not well served by superior intellectualism.

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Comment #74712 by Yorker on September 30, 2007 at 5:29 am

189. Comment #74665 by Veronique

Forgive me if I've taken a long time to reply. I think you must have addressed me after my head bouncing off my screen convinced me it was bedtime. :)

I understand your glee, but just wait a while.

Don't worry though, for reasons unknown to me, you can tear people a new asshole and get off lightly with it, perhaps it's because as you say, you're a nice old lady! Before you tear me a new one, I hasten to add that I mean that in a complimentary way. :)

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Comment #74660 by Yorker on September 29, 2007 at 9:33 pm

I for one didn't realise that RRS membership numbered in the thousands, maybe some people here will be anxious to get the egg wiped off the faces of their avatars before showing them again.

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Comment #74659 by Yorker on September 29, 2007 at 9:24 pm

181. Comment #74655 by wonderist

Just watched that video link, Brian and Kelly came across as intelligent, thoughtful, considerate and respectful and what's more, I didn't hear a single "fuck" What's all the fuss about?

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Comment #74657 by Yorker on September 29, 2007 at 9:11 pm

181. Comment #74655 by wonderist

Kerr..unch! :) :) :)

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Comment #74654 by Yorker on September 29, 2007 at 8:49 pm

177. Comment #74651 by v4ri4bl3

How old are you, 19, 20?

Listen to yourself son, I told you what the evidence indicated and I tried to give you some advice that may help you in future. You can choose to ignore it of course but try reading it again, it will penetrate your subconscious and maybe one day some years from now the thought might occur to you; "fuck me, that old bastard Yorker was right, and I have learned from it".

You won't feel that right now of course because your dislike of me is preventing you from thinking straight, but once the anger subsides and time plays its part, good stuff can happen.

I say that because I've had that very experience myself. Now think on.

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Comment #74652 by Yorker on September 29, 2007 at 8:28 pm

Veronique

What you said about kids having a hard time dumping religion reminded me of a great interview I saw on TV about a year ago. The interviewee was a young lad of 12 or 13 who had that down-to-earth Yorkshire accent, when asked about belief in God, he replied;

"Nah, loada roobish that, I 'ave me own ways now and 'ah like 'em, makes me feel better and stronger."

Here was a kid who'd discovered the fun and excitement of thinking for himself and the confidence it bestowed upon him.

With kids like that, there's hope for us yet.

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Comment #74647 by Yorker on September 29, 2007 at 7:57 pm

172. Comment #74643 by Teratornis

"Personally, I think teaching people to think critically is far more important than just trying to get one particular point across."

Yes, I'd agree with that, and I try my best to do it.

"If we knock off the tip of the iceberg - belief in God - while allowing the vast bulk of the iceberg of irrational thinking to remain - I don't believe we will be improving things. We might just be creating a new wave of Pol Pots."

Again, that's a possibility but with political power and a critically-thinking leadership, the possibility of Pol Pot types arising will be severely attenuated.

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Comment #74644 by Yorker on September 29, 2007 at 7:38 pm

169. Comment #74638 by v4ri4bl3

No need to grovel.

I studied your history; here's my analysis that I could have mentioned before but didn't because I saw no need to be unkind, but now I do.

I think you're miffed because the RRS didn't see you as the guiding light you saw yourself as.

You gave yourself away; did you expect to walk into a pre-existent group of people and start telling them how to behave? I'm not surprised they gave you the bum's rush. I have a suggestion for you: next time you feel you want to change a person or persons, try to make them like you first. If the first impression you give is that of an asshole, then that's how you'll be treated.

The only time you can succeed by force of personality is when all are on an equal footing and no pre-existing conditions have been set. That is what we're doing here, trying to convince each other of a viewpoint by using reason because we all started off equal. You don't start a new job by trying to take over the company, that was your mistake, sure, they could have booted you nicely, but you'd still have been pissed off because your ego had been hurt, you'd still complain about how badly you'd been done by and where the RRS were going wrong.

Now, piss and moan at me all you like, at least it'll give the RRS a break.

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Comment #74640 by Yorker on September 29, 2007 at 7:17 pm

166. Comment #74633 by The Smart Patrol

"My point is simply that this kind of herd mentality, or supporting someone because they seem superficially to espouse kindred world-views, is not necessarily something that we (I can refer to us as "we", can't I? You OK with that Veronique?) should be seeking to borrow from the religious."

Borrow from the religious! Since time immemorial humans have understood the value of unity, it's the reason we have tribes, cities, nations and almost every social advancement I can think of.

Every religion certainly has unity, that's their main strength but now that people are globally aware, the glaring weakness that they can't all be right has penetrated the consciousness of humanity in a powerful way. It's amazing that we allegedly clever atheists have taken this long to realise the value of unity, we've been too egotistically independant to see it; the very attitude you demonstrate here.

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Comment #74630 by Yorker on September 29, 2007 at 6:22 pm

Roach

You cracked me up, I spilled hot tea on my nuts and all over my new desk chair!

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Comment #74626 by Yorker on September 29, 2007 at 6:07 pm

159. Comment #74617 by v4ri4bl3

Yes, they should read it, that's why I said it!

Nobody debates against creationists, it's a waste of time debating people who are unwilling to admit the possibility they might be wrong. If you want to waste your time with them, go ahead, the RRS won't and can't stop you.

One of the biggest mistakes you can make in life is to worry about what others may think. It doesn't matter what people say about atheists, its all been said before. Your simply reiterating what you said earlier in the thread, YES, WE KNOW YOU DON'T LIKE THEM! You hope to gain support for your own case with these posts, anyone who looks at what went on with you can see that. It's a common flaw that many don't RBP (Read Before Posting) and they sometimes make silly or repetitive statements because of it. I read all posts; I've read yours, you've said you'll pass, fine.

Of course you can make as many posts as you like but repeating the same shit again and again only worsens your case.

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Comment #74614 by Yorker on September 29, 2007 at 5:36 pm

150. Comment #74600 by BaronOchs

"I recall a similar discussion to this when the Blasphemy Challenge started. Which some thought was crude and would hurt rather than help atheism."

Yes, I recall that also, the nay-sayers were wrong about that one too - you'd think they would've learned a lesson but not yet apparently - slow learners maybe.

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Comment #74612 by Yorker on September 29, 2007 at 5:32 pm

145. Comment #74589 by The Smart Patrol

"I, for one, am delighted that the sartorially deficient, unkempt and harebrained RSS are not simply lauded by all and sundry as fellow enlightened rationalists, and are instead subject to some very sound constructive criticism. I would contend that "all this hate" for the RSS is precisely what is to be valued about our kind, and that we should be glad that we're not content to brown-nose every half-witted schmuck who happens to voice their distaste for feeble-minded superstition."

I thought snobbery like yours had died out some time ago. Constructive criticism would be supportive and helpful while criticising, destructive seems more accurate here.

"Thank God we freethinkers do not value strength in numbers as a defining principle of our ideology"

And precisely why we've been totally ignored and pushed around for centuries. Perhaps it hurts, perhaps you don't like it but that is now changing, the choice is yours, take it or leave it.

I'm gradually coming to the conclusion that the ego of some atheists is such that they don't want us to succeed, they fear it will damage the superiority they feel.

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Comment #74606 by Yorker on September 29, 2007 at 5:13 pm

144. Comment #74579 by LeeLeeOne

"The RRS needs to give more respect and intellectual credit to the abilities of our young members of society as well as give more of the same to us 'older folk.'"

I'm an older person and they've been fine with me, maybe it's because I support them.

"Is this type of 'something' really better?"

It's a whole lot better than nothing, the four major atheist icons seem to feel likewise.

"Could RRS do a better job? Yes, I think so."

Who wouldn't say that? There is always room for improvement. Could a bunch of guys our age do any better? I very much doubt it. We would not have the crucial support of the young and if this site is an indicator, we'd have only critics here. Why, because unless you are well-known nobody cares, people are suckers for celebrity, that is very evident here.

If Dawkins et al started a strong political push then yes they might do better, but as I said earlier in this thread, the RRS would most likely just join in. Only fools would reject them.

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Comment #74602 by Yorker on September 29, 2007 at 4:51 pm

148. Comment #74595 by d4m14n

"Beyond that, RD spoke about funding some kind of atheist movement in 2002 when he gave a presentation at TED"

Yes, I know, I've mentioned that on more than one occasion here myself. That's why I also said he had no choice but to get this site moving in a political direction, which it now is. I don't know about funded by TGD, the site existed before the book did. But you seem to be agreeing with the political goal and I'm glad about that.

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Comment #74573 by Yorker on September 29, 2007 at 3:08 pm

135. Comment #74541 by VanYoungman

Thank you for the support and your comments, please thank everyone there on my behalf and assure them of my support. I shouldn't speak for anyone else but I feel certain Veronique and a few others are of like mind.

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Comment #74530 by Yorker on September 29, 2007 at 10:59 am

I was driving along today listening to the audiobook version of Sam Harris' LTCN, it's beautifully put together in Sam's excellent manner, but the thought it's all so obvious occurred to me. It's so clearly true, one wonders how anyone could possibly disagree with it, yet they do as my recent personal experience with real people shows. I found myself thinking that I should pity these people, not be angry at them. They stumble through the years of precious life blindly obeying the brain-software installed in childhood that has completely infiltrated their RAM (short-term memory) and their hard disk (long-term). Like a superb anti-virus program it catches all invasive attempts by rationality programming and shoves such code into the religite-brain version of a junk email folder for later permanent deletion on Sunday mornings.

That further prompted me to think about the excellent books by Dawkins, Hitchens and Dennett also and wondered what was in the mind of the authors when they wrote them? Was fame, fortune, peer-approval, possible conversion of religites their motivation? Perhaps a little bit of all these things, but these men are not fools, they must have known that conversion rates would be low; Dawkins himself has said so.

But let's consider a miraculous thought; that each of those books changed a huge number of people's minds about religion; great! Atheistic numbers leap an order of magnitude in a matter of a few months! Fantastic! Intelligentsia and thickoids are converted piecemeal. What now? Well, possibly Joe Blow would tell his friend Jake Bake about his conversion and Jake too would join the ranks after reading TGD say, and so it could go on; huge swelling ranks of leaderless atheists without even their own version of the Horst Wessel song!

"Die Fanne hoch, die reihen fest geschlossen; Atheist marschiert mit ruhig festem schritt"

Hmm..., the first line's OK but the rest would probably need some serious re-wording; yes, we'll dump that one I think! Perhaps thankfully, this miracle didn't happen.

However, we're still left wondering what the gang of four had in mind if their books had had the desired effect. I can't believe they didn't think ahead; nor have in mind some future vision, so if not to effect change in the world what was the purpose? Was it mere money and fame? I hope not, but it's possibly true. It's also possible there may some clever underlying reason I've missed or not been smart enough to see, but I hope not because I honestly wouldn't want to know about or be interested in it. Fame and fortune I can understand; a political goal I can understand; anything else would be valueless to me.

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Comment #74507 by Yorker on September 29, 2007 at 7:39 am

132. Comment #74497 by the great teapot

Goal-keeping, what's that? :)

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Comment #74494 by Yorker on September 29, 2007 at 6:27 am

I just had an idea. The young people around here are avid YouTube fans, I'll set up a new meeting and get their thoughts on the RRS, I predict overwhelming support.

To be fair, this might be a better result than a world-wide average would show because of the Scottish colouration. There's plenty evidence that aggression, little tolerance for nonsense and a sense of fairness are characteristics we Scots display. Even Gordon Brown mentioned in his latest speech, the Glasgow airport baggage handler who set about a terrorist during the attack there. It's likely therefore, that youngsters here will appreciate the RRS methods perhaps more than in other places, but still, a good indicator.

Why don't some of you do likewise? Poll the young in your area, get real evidence.

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Comment #74491 by Yorker on September 29, 2007 at 6:01 am

108. Comment #74452 by Bueller_007

"RRS are little more than petulant bullies."

Great, isn't it?

Veronique

Yes, I recall what the superior-assed wankers here did to MIND_REBEL - fucking disgrace. I think I was the first to defend him but to no avail, too many people here with an over-elevated sense of their own worth but sadly deficient in the human compassion department.