1. Atheist Foundation of Australia Bus Slogan Rejected!

Comment #291832 by DingoDave on November 26, 2008 at 9:29 pm

I've just sent the following email to ABC Radio's 'The Religion Report'.

During 'The Religion Report' on November 26th 2008, Greg Clark from the 'Macquarie Christian Studies Institute', asserted that Martin Luther was a champion of reason. How blatantly dishonest of him!
Please let Greg read aloud on air the following quotes, and then let him tell me again with a straight face, that Martin Luther was a proponent of reason.

-But since the devil's bride, Reason, that pretty whore, comes in and thinks she's wise, and what she says, what she thinks, is from the Holy Spirit, who can help us then? Not judges, not doctors, no king or emperor, because [reason] is the Devil's greatest whore." - Martin Luther's Last Sermon in Wittenberg ... Second Sunday in Epiphany, 17 January 1546.

-"Reason is the Devil's greatest whore; by nature and manner of being she is a noxious whore; she is a prostitute, the Devil's appointed whore; whore eaten by scab and leprosy who ought to be trodden under foot and destroyed, she and her wisdom ... Throw dung in her face to make her ugly. She is and she ought to be drowned in baptism... She would deserve, the wretch, to be banished to the filthiest place in the house, to the closets." - Martin Luther, Erlangen Edition v. 16, pp. 142-148

-“Whoever wants to be a Christian must be intent on silencing the voice of reason” - Sermons on the Gospel of St. John, in Works, Vol. 23, p. 99

-“Whoever wishes to be a Christian, let him pluck out the eyes of his reason,” - Lectures on the First Psalm, in Works Vol. 11, p.285

-“Christ wants to slay reason and subdue the arrogance of the Jews.” - 'Sermons on the Gospel of St. John', in Works Vol. 22, p.320

-"Reason is the greatest enemy that faith has: it never comes to the aid of spiritual things, but--more frequently than not --struggles against the divine Word, treating with contempt all that emanates from God." - Table Talk 1596, p.353

If those are quotes SUPPORTING reason, then I'm the President of the United States!
Why do so many Christian apologists seem to be incapable of telling the truth about their religion?

2. Conversation between Richard Dawkins and John Lennox

Comment #226670 by DingoDave on August 8, 2008 at 1:40 pm

I think this entry needs to be re-titled.

'Monologue by John Lennox, with comments by Richard Dawkins'

If that was a conversation, then I'll be buggered with a barbed wire dildo.

It sounded more like a sermon.

Lennox would ask Dawkins a question, and then not even allow him to answer it, before continuing to blather on again with his inane ramblings.

Lennox: "What do you think of that Richard?"
Dawkins: "Well John, I.."
Lennox: "Bla, Bla, Bla..........."

I don't think that it was constructive at all.
If anyone wanted to hear a sermon, then they could go to any church on any given Sunday and hear one.

Sorry, but I disagree with both Richard AND PZ Myers on this one.

3. Tablet Ignites Debate on Messiah and Resurrection

Comment #205145 by DingoDave on July 6, 2008 at 4:47 pm

nacjo wrote:
"The belief in spontaneous generation, in my opinion, requires more faith than believing in an All-Powerful God does."

Let me get this straight Nacjo.
You believe that the natural development of a simple prokaryotic micro-organism (which was composed out of stuff that we actually know about), requires more faith to believe in, than that an all knowing, all seeing, all powerfull superman with magic powers who lives in the sky, somehow magically poofed himself into existence?

Remarkable!

4. Crack annoyance squad wanted

Comment #203997 by DingoDave on July 4, 2008 at 2:29 am

I'm gunning for 'Evil Santa' T-shirts, with a picture of the Pope in his furry red hat on the front.
Like this one;

http://julianstirling.co.uk/2007/12/that-scary-evil-dude-pope.html

or this one;

http://www.renegadecatholic.com/ratzi/ratzipics.html

5. 'I despise Islamism': Ian McEwan faces backlash over press interview

Comment #197779 by DingoDave on June 22, 2008 at 4:54 pm

Ref Comment#7 by Sargeist:
"I'm not sure what this "Islamism" is.

I was wondering the very same thing.
It appears to be 'newspeak' for "I hate militant Islam", or "I hate radical Muslims". Would anyone dream of saying "I hate Christianityism" in the same context?
It appears that even Islam's critics can't bring themselves to say what they really mean.
In my opinion, this kind of obfuscation merely muddies the waters.(sorry about the mixed metaphors)
Many fanatical Imams openly proclaim that they want Islam to take over the world, and that non-muslims should be despised. Why are they not being taken to task for 'hate speech'?

Ref. comment#37 by felandath:
"As a "Muslim Atheist", I feel there is no chance of dialogue between the rest of the World and Islam..."

How can anyone be a 'Muslim atheist'? :/

6. Mark Steyn vs. the 'Sock Puppets'

Comment #186135 by DingoDave on May 29, 2008 at 4:54 pm

HunterZolomon wrote: "What I meant was, that when you undress multiculturalism, it is insanely funny because it's simply lunacy."

When multiculturalism is taken to extremes, as seems to be happening more and more often these days, then I agree with you wholeheartedly.
Pat Condell has made a couple of interesting videos about this rather alarming phenomenon.
Not all cultures are equal. In my opinion, some 'cultures' simply don't deserve our respect.


'Oh dhimmi Canada'
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUTFcgE1F7w

'Islam in Europe'
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nI5WoXpmPiM

'Appeasing Islam'
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9dXGJ2rYdA&feature=related

Pat has been described as a fascist and an Islamaphobe for stating his views so forthrightly, but I've yet to see any of his detractors put up an even halfway convincing argument against the substance of his comments.

7. Car dealership advert tells atheists to 'shut up'

Comment #186118 by DingoDave on May 29, 2008 at 3:53 pm

Ref. comment #111: "MOJAVE CAR DEALER'S SON DIES IN CRASH"

Perhaps Allah was unimpressed with his father's pro-Christian advertising.
Apparently he was his only son, so it's really a very sad thing for this to have happened to the family.
It seems that Allah acts with all the subtlety of a TRex.

8. Mark Steyn vs. the 'Sock Puppets'

Comment #185909 by DingoDave on May 29, 2008 at 3:46 am

Ref. Comment #85: "Mark Steyn on multiculturalism, bloody brilliant!! It's very interesting to note that a rational analysis of this horrid phenomenon elicits so much laughter. Check it out."

I must confess that I enjoyed a couple of hearty chuckles during his presentation. And why not?

After all, how could anyone not chuckle at a saying such as; "discussing cultural relativism with a cultural relativist, is like playing tennis with some guy who wants to play with the net down, and who says that your 'ace' is just a social construct."

LOL!!!

9. Iowa county board gives initial OK for ghost hunters to investigate asylum

Comment #185868 by DingoDave on May 28, 2008 at 10:26 pm

Comment #28: "I check out the local pub if I want to see spirits. After a while I might even see God. LOL"

I've "spoken to God on the big white telephone" once or twice myself after an especially big night out at my local. :-D

10. Mark Steyn vs. the 'Sock Puppets'

Comment #185850 by DingoDave on May 28, 2008 at 8:17 pm

"O believers, take not Jews and Christians as friends; they are friends of each other. Whoso of you makes them his friends is one of them. Allah guides not the people of the evildoers." (Sura 5.51)

"O Prophet, urge on the believers to fight. If there be twenty of you, patient men, they will overcome two hundred; if there be a hundred of you, they will overcome a thousand unbelievers, for they are a people who understand not." (Sura 8.65)

"And fight them until there is no more fitnah (disbelief and polytheism, i.e. worshipping others besides Allah) and the religion (worship) will all be for Allah alone (in the whole world). But if they cease (worshipping others besides Allah) then certainly, Allah is All-Seer of what they do." (Sura 8.39).

"Those that make war against Allah and His apostle and spread disorder in the land shall be slain or crucified or have their hands and feet cut off on alternate sides, or be banished from the land. They shall be held up to shame in this world and sternly punished in the hereafter." (Sura 5.33)

"Fight those who believe not in Allah and the Last Day and do not forbid what Allah and His Messenger have forbidden -- such men as practice not the religion of truth, being of those who have been given the Book [i.e. Jews and Christians] -- until they pay the tribute (Dhimmi tax) out of hand and have been humbled." (Sura 9.29)

Yeah, sure sounds like a 'live and let live' approach to me? :O

Here is a good video of Ezra Levant standing up to the Canadian Human Rights Commission about publishing the 'Mohammed cartoons'.-
http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=AzVJTHIvqw8&feature=related

11. Car dealership advert tells atheists to 'shut up'

Comment #185820 by DingoDave on May 28, 2008 at 5:25 pm

I'm no longer involved in the motor trade, but having worked in the industry for many years (selling both new and used cars) I find the stereotyping of motor dealers as crooks and liars, to be both ignorant and bigotted. Please tell me people, how do motor dealers differ from any other industry when it comes to promoting and selling their products, or running their businesses? In Australia, the motor industry is one of the most tightly regulated industries in the country.
I established many friendships over the years with and through my customers, and much of my business was done through referrals and introductions by my existing customers.
Do you want to know who the biggest liars are when it comes to selling their cars? It's the general public.
I wish I had a dollar for every time I've had a car intentionally mis-described to me by 'Mr. Joe Punter', who was attempting to sell me his crappy old jallopy for an over-inflated price, or as a trade in on one of my good quality, fully inspected and reconditioned vehicles (which came with a guarantee).

There is an old joke in the motor industry, which unfortunately has a large grain of truth in it. It goes like this:
Q. -"How can you tell when a customer is lying to you?"
A. -"His lips move."

Sorry about the rant, but I just had to get that off my chest.

12. Car dealership advert tells atheists to 'shut up'

Comment #185544 by DingoDave on May 28, 2008 at 3:40 am

Ref. Comment #4: "This is all they got? This is what Christianity has come down to? Used car salesmen?"

I've got more respect for used car salesmen than I do for preachers for a number of reasons.
1- You get to try before you buy when purchasing a used car.
2- You get a warranty when you buy a used car (here in Australia), so if it breaks down the dealer is obliged to fix it.
3- There are product description laws which must be complied with in the motor trade. It is illegal to mis-represent a car when either advertising or selling it, and motor dealers are liable to heavy fines if they are caught doing so.
4- After you've paid your money, you have a real, tangible product which is actually useful.

Compare these benifits with the 'afterlife insurance' which the religious hucksters plug from their pulpits every Sunday, for which many people pay 10 percent of their pre-tax income for the term of their natural lives. Preachers are permitted by law to make extravagent promises, and completely unsubstantiated claims, and nobody ever comes back for a refund when they discover that they've been scammed, because by that time they're dead. What a business!
Any motor dealer would be closed down immediately if they made the same kinds of extravagent promises and unsubstantiated claims which preachers do as a matter of routine.

13. Town moves against Islamic school

Comment #185030 by DingoDave on May 26, 2008 at 6:18 pm

I wonder whether this proposed Islamic school intends to teach the doctrine of 'dar al-Islam', and 'dar al-harb'?

"A crucial distinction made in Islamic theology is that between dar al-harb and dar al-islam. To put it simply, dar al-harb (territory of war or chaos) is the name for the regions where Islam does not dominate, where divine will is not observed, and therefore where continuing strife is the norm. By contrast, dar al-islam (territory of peace) is the name for those territories where Islam does dominate, where submission to God is observed, and where peace and tranquility reign."
http://atheism.about.com/od/islamicextremism/a/daralharb.htm

One fundamental objective of all 'faith based' schools seems to be to segregate children from secular influences which might otherwise subvert their unswerving loyalty to the religious beliefs of their parents.

Another important question that I would like to see answered is this. Does this school propose to employ non-Muslim teachers, or will all teachers be required to sign a 'statement of faith' before they will be considered eligible for employment?
And if so, will they also be asking for any government funding?

14. Repulsive but right

Comment #185016 by DingoDave on May 26, 2008 at 5:17 pm

Christopher Hitchens often reminds me of Oscar Wilde; on steroids!

"A gentleman is one who never hurts anyone's feelings unintentionally." -Oscar Wilde

"A true friend stabs you in the front." -Oscar Wilde

"An excellent man; he has no enemies; and none of his friends like him." -Oscar Wilde

"I sometimes think that God in creating man somewhat overestimated his ability." -Oscar Wilde

"Man is a rational animal who always loses his temper when he is called upon to act in accordance with the dictates of reason." -Oscar Wilde

"One can survive anything these days, except death, and live down anything except a good reputation." -Oscar Wilde

"Work is the curse of the drinking classes." -Oscar Wilde

"There is only one thing in life worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about." -Oscar Wilde

"The man who can dominate a London dinner-table can dominate the world." -Oscar Wilde

"Quotation is a serviceable substitute for wit." -Oscar Wilde

If you enjoy Oscar Wilde, Alexei Sayle, and a good belly laugh, then take a look at this. LOL :D
http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=V2lB4-Y0WqQ

15. Animal Science Without Evolution

Comment #184669 by DingoDave on May 25, 2008 at 11:33 pm

"[This book is] written at a level that kids can understand."

Wouldn't that apply to all creationist publications?
I wonder whether it has any colourful cartoon illustrations of all the happy, furry animals marching two by two onto Noah's ark?

16. Mail-boat record 'proves Darwin stole his original ideas from a Welsh scientist'

Comment #184668 by DingoDave on May 25, 2008 at 11:22 pm

If this was true, wouldn't it mean that we should henceforth refer to evolutionary biologists as a 'bunch of Wallies'? :)

17. Repulsive but right

Comment #184535 by DingoDave on May 25, 2008 at 3:52 pm

It beggars my imagination why any homosexual would want to have anything to do with a book that calls for their violent execution, as the Bible does.

And it won't do to play the, "but that's the Old Testament" card, because the New Testament condemns them to Hell in no uncertain terms along with sorcerers, kidnappers, murderers, thieves, adulterers, whoremongers, prostitutes, coveters, liars, covenant breakers, drunkards, backbiters, inventors of evil things, God haters etc.

Besides which, according to traditional Anglican theology, Jesus, being part of the holy trinity IS the god of the Old Testament. So it was really 'gentle Jesus meek and mild' who gave Moses the order to have homosexuals stoned to death.

18. Sun's properties not 'fine-tuned' for life

Comment #183810 by DingoDave on May 22, 2008 at 10:00 pm

To Leigh, comment #52:

Is that a nudibranch on you avatar?
If you like nudibranchs then take a look at this video. This species is nicknamed the 'Spanish Dancer'. (the reason for which will become obvious upon viewing the video)

It's here: http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=SBlB1-EabgI

19. Richard Dawkins Responds to Rabbi Shmuley Boteach

Comment #183806 by DingoDave on May 22, 2008 at 9:46 pm

My pet theory is that clearmind(sic) is really Harun Yahya/Adnan Oktar, blogging from a Turkish prison with the help of a smuggled cell phone.

20. Richard Dawkins lecture at ASU's Tempe Campus

Comment #183799 by DingoDave on May 22, 2008 at 9:17 pm

Krisopher wrote in comment #33:
"9 million Mexicans converted to Catholicism in the 1500 hundreds...All of whom took on a faith that they were not born into."

Yes they did. But as has already been pointed out to you by LeeLeeOne, they were coerced and threatened with violence against themselves and their families if they did not.
Please read the following, and then honestly tell me whether you think that they had any real choice in the matter. The following demand was read to the leaders of the local communities which the conquistadors were invading.

"The Requerimiento (Spanish "requirement" as in "demand") was a declaration of sovereignty and war read by Spanish military forces to assert their sovereignty over the Americas.

Written by Juan López de Palacios Rubios, it was used to justify the assertion that God, through Saint Peter and his Papal successors, held authority as ruler over the entire Earth, and that the Inter Caetera, (a Papal Bull of 4 May 1493 by Pope Alexander VI) conferred title over the Americas to the Spanish monarchs."

The following is an exerpt from this 'requirement'.

Requerimiento (1510):

"Wherefore, as best we can, we ask and require you that you consider what we have said to you, and that you take the time that shall be necessary to understand and deliberate upon it, and that you acknowledge the Church as the Ruler and Superior of the whole world, and the high priest called Pope, and in his name the King and Queen Doña Juana our lords, in his place, as superiors and lords and kings of these islands and this Tierra-firme by virtue of the said donation, and that you consent and give place that these religious fathers should declare and preach to you the aforesaid.

If you do so, you will do well, and that which you are obliged to do to their Highnesses, and we in their name shall receive you in all love and charity, and shall leave you, your wives, and your children, and your lands, free without servitude, that you may do with them and with yourselves freely that which you like and think best, and they shall not compel you to turn Christians, unless you yourselves, when informed of the truth, should wish to be converted to our Holy Catholic Faith, as almost all the inhabitants of the rest of the islands have done.
And, besides this, their Highnesses award you many privileges and exemptions and will grant you many benefits.

But, if you do not do this, and maliciously make delay in it, I certify to you that, with the help of God, we shall powerfully enter into your country, and shall make war against you in all ways and manners that we can, and shall subject you to the yoke and obedience of the Church and of their Highnesses; we shall take you and your wives and your children, and shall make slaves of them, and as such shall sell and dispose of them as their Highnesses may command; and we shall take away your goods, and shall do you all the mischief and damage that we can, as to vassals who do not obey, and refuse to receive their lord, and resist and contradict him; and we protest that the deaths and losses which shall accrue from this are your fault, and not that of their Highnesses, or ours, nor of these cavaliers who come with us."
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Requerimiento

What would you have done if you had been one of those unfortunate natives? Christianity conquered the New World by blood, sword and fire; Cetainly not by gentle pursuasion.

21. Richard Dawkins Responds to Rabbi Shmuley Boteach

Comment #183779 by DingoDave on May 22, 2008 at 7:55 pm

Comment #316: "Maybe that's not a normal sized turtle...perhaps it GAMERA!!!
that would make annabanana the 50 foot tall woman?"

Don't be so silly Tezcatlipoca, everybody knows that Gamera is a fictional character.
It's obviously an Archelon (see here): http://www.euroturtle.org/biology/fossil.htm
,which would make annabanana only about 15 feet tall. :D
I personally find this hypothesis much easier to believe.

22. Lab agrees to test Shroud of Turin for new theory

Comment #183403 by DingoDave on May 22, 2008 at 4:00 am

From here:
http://www.mcri.org/home/section/63-64/the-shroud-of-turin

"According to Dr. Walter McCrone and his colleagues, the 3 by 14 foot cloth depicting Christ's crucified body is an inspired painting produced by a Medieval artist just before its first appearance in recorded history in 1356.

The faint sepia image is made up of billions of submicron pigment particles (red ochre and vermilion) in a collagen tempera medium. The pigments red ochre and vermilion with the collagen tempera medium was a common paint composition during the 14th century; before which, no one had ever heard of the Shroud.

Initial Examination �" 1979

Dr. McCrone determined this by polarized light microscopy in 1979. This included careful inspection of thousands of linen fibers from 32 different areas (Shroud and sample points), characterization of the only colored image-forming particles by color, refractive indices, polarized light microscopy, size, shape, and microchemical tests for iron, mercury, and body fluids. The red ochre is present on 20 of both body- and blood-image tapes; the vermilion only on 11 blood-image tapes. Both pigments are absent on the 12 non-image tape fibers. The paint pigments were dispersed in a collagen tempera (produced in medieval times, perhaps, from parchment). It is chemically distinctly different in composition from blood but readily detected and identified microscopically by microchemical staining reactions. Forensic tests for blood were uniformly negative on fibers from the blood-image tapes. Based on these findings, McCrone postulated that the Shroud was painted in 1355.

Further Research in 1980

In 1980, using electron microscopy and x-ray diffraction, McCrone found red ochre (iron oxide, hematite) and vermilion (mercuric sulfide); the electron microprobe analyzer found iron, mercury, and sulfur on a dozen of the blood-image area samples. The results fully confirmed Dr. McCrone's results and further proved the image was painted twice �" once with red ochre, followed by vermilion to enhance the blood-image areas.

In 1987, carbon dating at three prestigious laboratories agreed well with his date: 1355 by microscopy and 1325 by C-14 dating. The suggestion that the 1532 Chambery fire changed the date of the cloth is ludicrous. Samples for C-dating are routinely and completely burned to CO 2 as part of a well-tested purification procedure. The suggestions that modern biological contaminants were sufficient to modernize the date are also ridiculous. A weight of 20th century carbon equaling nearly two times the weight of the Shroud carbon itself would be required to change a 1st century date to the 14th century ("see "Amount of Modern Biological Contaminant Required to Raise the Date of a 36 A.D. Shroud)). Besides this, the linen cloth samples were very carefully cleaned before analysis at each of the C-dating laboratories.

Experimental details on the tests carried out by McCrone are available in five papers published in three different peer-reviewed journal articles: The Microscope 28, p. 105, 115 (1980); The Microscope 29, p. 19 (1981); Wiener Berichte uber Naturwissenschaft in der Kunst 1987/1988, 4/5, 50 and Acc. Chem. Res. 1990, 23, 77-83.

Conclusion:

The "Shroud" is a beautiful painting created about 1355 for a new church in need of a pilgrim-attracting relic."

23. In God's Name

Comment #183389 by DingoDave on May 22, 2008 at 3:07 am

I'm watching part 2 at the moment (6 1/2 minutes in), and there's an obviously demented Christian guy ranting and raving in front of a news camera about how the Queen of England needs to repent.
The Barrister woman Andrea is disconcerted, not about what the guy is actually saying, but about the fact that he is coming across to the media as being some kind of 'demented fuckwit' (trade mark PZ Myers). Does this make Andrea a stealth model 'demented fuckwit'(TM)?

Question. When should a person cease to be viewed as a 'deluded fuckwit', and begin to be viewed as a 'demented fuckwit'? Are there clearly defined categories of fuckwittery, or is it a gradual continuum?

24. Turkish Islamic author given 3-year jail sentence

Comment #182361 by DingoDave on May 19, 2008 at 8:58 pm

Here are some exerpts from Adnan Oktar's 'biography which I found here:
http://www.harunyahya.com/theauthor2.php

"Born in Ankara in 1956, Adnan Oktar writes his books under the pen name of Harun Yahya. Ever since his university years, he has dedicated his life to telling of the existence and oneness of Almighty Allah, and to disseminating the moral values of the Qur'an. He has never wavered in the face of difficulties and despite oppression, still continues this intellectual struggle today exhibiting great patience and determination.

A short biography of Adnan Oktar:

Born in Ankara in 1956, Adnan Oktar lived there through his high school years. During this period, his devotion to Islamic moral values grew even stronger. He deepened his profound knowledge of Islam by reading works of all the great Islamic scholars and decided to tell everyone about Islam's moral values and summon them to a knowledge of truth and beauty."

"When Adnan Oktar entered Mimar Sinan University, it was under the influence of various illegal Marxist-communist organizations....This environment accorded religion and moral values no respect, and rejected them almost entirely. The materialist view predominated. But Adnan Oktar began telling those around him of the existence and oneness of Allah, and was the only person who prayed openly in the Molla Mosque, adjacent to the university."

"Spreading Religious Moral Values at Mimar Sinan University

When Adnan Oktar began communicating Islamic values, he was quite alone. For more than three years nobody at Mimar Sinan University backed up his views, yet that did not alter his determination. Knowing that Allah was his only friend, he did all these things solely to gain His approval. He devoted all his time, energy and means to a single purpose: earning the good pleasure, mercy and Paradise of Allah, and telling all mankind about religious moral values."

" Adnan Oktar held conversations with these young people on love of country; the importance of following in the great leader Ataturk's path; the proofs of creation; the exemplary moral values of our Prophet (saas); the provisions and moral values revealed in the Qur'an by our Lord; and the invalidity of the then-prevailing ideologies of materialism, atheism and Darwinism. From this time onward, Adnan Oktar was a vehicle by which many people came to believe."

"Through these books, a great many people have come to appreciate and to grow more deeply in their faith. Everyone who reads and studies his work is affected by this profound difference and benefits from his sincere, wise and easily accessible style. Each book is characterized by proven, definitive facts presented with honest clarity, which nobody can refute-features that doubtlessly stem from a striking wisdom vouchsafed by Allah."

"During all these trials, he has always constituted a role model maintaining his trust in, and submission to, Allah, recalling that throughout history, believers have all been tested with similar incidents, that every event takes place in a destiny determined by Allah, in a wise and auspicious manner. No matter what may befall them, he has always said that believers must always be moderate, joyfully determined, and submit to Allah's will.
He has always been forgiving and compassionate towards those who have conspired to blacken his name with irrational and illogical slanders. Acting in the light of the morality revealed by Allah in the verse "Repel the bad with something better" (Surah Fussilat, 34), he was totally cleared by the court of all accusations made against him on 12 November, 1999. He is still actively engaged in his literary activities today, calling on his readers to live by proper moral values."

So there you have it. Another hypocritical 'holier than thou' slimeball, and self proclaimed spokesman for God, bites the dust and spirals downward into an abyss of ignominy and infamy.

Good riddance to bad rubbish, and may he never rise again!

25. Turkish Islamic author given 3-year jail sentence

Comment #182356 by DingoDave on May 19, 2008 at 8:31 pm

Here is another article about the sins of Adnan Oktar.
From here:
http://www.mukto-mona.com/debunk/harun_yahya/

Who is Harun Yahya?


Harun Yahaya is charlatan and a dangerous man. Here's some background of this great impostor:

Adnan Oktar (pen name: Harun Yahya) is claimed on his web page to be a 'world renown and respected scholar' who has devoted himself to writing about scientific and faith-related subjects such as the theory of evolution and miracles of God. He is further described by supporters as a respected 'scientist' who has publications in incredibly diverse areas of interest (actually he is not a university graduate).

The fact is that, his publications and his foundation (Science Research Foundation) have recently been banned in Turkey, and most members of his "sect" have been sent to court. This was not due to their Islamic and scientific activities, but due to crimes such as blackmail, extortion, possession of unlicensed weapons and sexual intercourse with minors.

About three years ago, upon complaints of victims and many years of suspicion, Turkish police raided residences of this group. The discoveries at the houses and testimony of the group members were shocking.

Under the mask of promoting Islam and scientific facts, the group members had been found to engage in extensive criminal activity. These crimes included blackmail, possession of unlicensed weapons and sexual intercourse with individuals under age 18.

The head of the group, Adnan Oktar (recorded by police cameras, leaked and shown on Turkish TV channels such as Kanal D, ATV, Star) confessed to blackmailing people who they regarded as an obstacle to their enterprises. These people included the reporters for the newspaper Hurriyet, Emin Colasan, and Fatih Altayli, after they questioned some of Harun Yahya's activities such as bribing the municipality of Ankara.

Also politicians such as Celal Adan (Member of the Parliament) and Mesut Yilmaz (former Prime Minister of Turkey) have been victims of this group. Oktar's group arranged fake (photomontage) photos of Mesut Yilmaz in Freemason clothes and ceremonies, and forged a fake certificate of Freemasonary for him. This fake was taken seriously and published in several pro-Islamic newspapers (without knowing it was a fraud). The PM was seriously damaged politically as a result during the remainder of his government.

Also coming forth, a fashion model named Ebru Simsek was blackmailed, and then slandered as a "prostitute" in fax messages sent to hundreds of different newspapers, TV channels, major business companies, foreign consulates, government offices etc. The reason for the slander? She refused to have sex with Adnan Oktar.

But the most shocking activities of Oktar's and his followers were not the above. In the sudden raid, 20 women and 2 other men were found at his residence. Most of the females (girls really) were under the age 18, (Oktar is his middle 40's) and they claimed that they had been having sexual intercourse with Oktar and members of his sect.

In his testimony, Oktar claimed that he had committed no crime as the intercourse was consensual, allowed under Turkish law. Further, Oktar insisted that this intercourse was also religiously permissible under Islam because he and his followers did not have a 'real sexual intercourse with these girls'.

He and his followers claimed that they had only engaged in 'anal and oral' sex. They preferred this kinds of sexual intercourse since according to Koran, he claimed, these acts are not impermissible outside of marriage. According to their interpretation 'vaginal' intercourse was 'haram' but 'anal and oral intercourse' was 'halal' when not married.

So you wonder what happened in the end?

Science Research Foundation was closed. Adnan Oktar (aka Harun Yahya), and about 40 of his sect members were taken to the court and judged. Once there, they denied the truth of their original confessions, claiming that they were extracted under torture.

The judicial process lasted over 2 years, during which most of the complainants' retracted their claims because of threats or bribes from sect members. As a result most of the cases against these people were dismissed, with only two of them jail for 1 year each.

That said, coverage of the arrests and trials were so extensive in Turkey that the reputation (and money making opportunities) of the group were permanently destroyed. It is now taken seriously only in foreign countries where their legal troubles received little or no press coverage.

26. Richard Dawkins Responds to Rabbi Shmuley Boteach

Comment #182346 by DingoDave on May 19, 2008 at 7:49 pm

clearmind wrote:
"Second we obey God not because we fear but to be grateful and thankful for creating us. The one who loves obeys whom he loves. Fear is for non-believers or atheists. For a believer, there is no fear."

You've got to be joking! Then how do you explain this verse?
"Serve the LORD with fear, with trembling" - Psalm 2:11
or this,
"For great is the LORD, and greatly to be praised; he is to be feared above all gods." -Psalm 96:4
or this,
"Blessed is every one who fears the LORD, who walks in his ways!" -Psalm 128:1

Better still, go to an online Bible such as this one,
http://quod.lib.umich.edu/r/rsv/simple.html
and do a search for the word 'fear'. You will come up with dozens of verses imploring worshipers to fear Yahweh or suffer the consequences.

"Feelings are not supposed to be logical. Dangerous is the man who has rationalized his emotions."

More dangerous is the man who allows his emotions to overide his rationality.

"The physical laws of the world enable us to live safely - like gravity that we obey it and we do not jump off the building...These laws started with the first prophet Adam and passed on to other prophets."

Does this mean that every time we hop on a plane and take off, we are somehow breaking the laws of physics, and defying the prophets? : O

How did you ever manage to survive to adulthood clearmind?

thomasRwrote:
"Perhaps listening over a speaker led to the error. (Boteach wasn't angry. Hitler was. Not that that matters much.)"

He sure looked and sounded angry to me. Or was he simply using an inflamatory rhetorical style purely for effect, just as Richard initially implied?

27. Turkish Islamic author given 3-year jail sentence

Comment #181965 by DingoDave on May 19, 2008 at 12:23 am

Adnan Oktar aka Harun Yahya is a preening, narcissistic ignoramus.
He runs a number of websites including one called Darwinism-Watch which you can find here:
http://www.darwinism-watch.com/index.php

If you want to see a man completely infatuated with himself, then take a look at this page:
http://www.harunyahya.com/theauthor.php

Christ, what an egotistical creep!

28. Bible Theme Park Faces Opposition in Tennessee

Comment #181946 by DingoDave on May 18, 2008 at 9:51 pm

Comment 69 by Raiko:
" forgot this earlier, but - yet another place where I can openly 'snog' my girlfriend!"

That ride would have to be named 'The Tunnel of Lust'.
You get to do anything you want while you're on the ride, but when you get to the end they beat the shit out of you; just in case...

By the way, was it pure coincidence that your comment happened to be number 69, or was 'The Lord' trying to tell you something? :D

29. Bible Theme Park Faces Opposition in Tennessee

Comment #181939 by DingoDave on May 18, 2008 at 9:18 pm

Comment 67 by Caudimordax:
"Heeelllloooo DingoDog - since you asked about their income, seriously, what about co-opting them with a board game incorporating many of the ideas posted here?"

We could call it 'The God Game'.

"Smite the Amalekite; move forward 5 spaces."

"You ate the apple; go directly to jail, do not pass go."

Could be a hoot! :D

30. Richard Dawkins Responds to Rabbi Shmuley Boteach

Comment #181937 by DingoDave on May 18, 2008 at 9:13 pm

Teratornis wrote:
"The more I use Wikipedia, and compare it to the ongoing nonsense and inefficiency in the real world, the more I conclude that everything sucks compared to Wikipedia."

As much as some people malign Wikipedia for being inaccurate or misleading, I have found it to be very useful and largely accurate concerning the topics which I have some familiarity with.

Call me naive, but this does give me some confidence that entries concerning more unfamiliar topics are likely to be relatively accurate as well.

31. Richard Dawkins Responds to Rabbi Shmuley Boteach

Comment #181933 by DingoDave on May 18, 2008 at 8:44 pm

The Roman philosopher Seneca said way back in the 1st century A.D:

"Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful."

The situation hasn't changed much since then.

When you've got a holy book which tells it's followers to obey their Earthly masters as they would God, (Slaves, be obedient to those who are your earthly masters, with fear and trembling, in singleness of heart, as to Christ" -Eph.6:5), and that they should obey their leaders (Obey your leaders and submit to them; for they are keeping watch over your souls...-Heb. 13:17), and that all governments are put in place by God (Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. -Rom. 13:1), then you have a population at your disposal which is ripe for the picking (or should I say fleecing).

When you have a holy book which also tells it's followers that they are forbidden to contradict or disobey a priest or judge, on pain of death, (The man who acts presumptuously, by not obeying the priest who stands to minister there before the LORD your God, or the judge, that man shall die; -Deuteronomy 17:12), then you have an unholy alliance which almost inevitably leads to fanaticism and oppression.

32. Richard Dawkins Responds to Rabbi Shmuley Boteach

Comment #181917 by DingoDave on May 18, 2008 at 6:46 pm

In the words of the immortal Basil Fawlty:

"DON'T MENTION THE WAR! (I mentioned it once, but I think I got away with it)."

33. Bible Theme Park Faces Opposition in Tennessee

Comment #181642 by DingoDave on May 17, 2008 at 6:51 pm

Comment 67 by Caudimordax:
"Heeelllloooo DingoDog - since you asked about their income, seriously, what about co-opting them with a board game incorporating many of the ideas posted here?"

We could set up a sales booth in the carpark and flog them off for $39.99 each. Although I doubt that either the park management, or the kind of people patronising such a venue would appreciate our sense of humour.

34. Bible Theme Park Faces Opposition in Tennessee

Comment #181194 by DingoDave on May 16, 2008 at 3:28 pm

I wonder what theme park consultants get paid.
Maybe we should apply for the job?
I believe their website has a 'positions vacant' section.

35. Bible Theme Park Faces Opposition in Tennessee

Comment #181191 by DingoDave on May 16, 2008 at 3:17 pm

Comment 55:
"Romanes Eunt Domus"

Romanes eunt domus? "People called Romanes, they go the house?"

If they were serious about running an authentic theme park, they would have a John Cleese type centurion running around correcting you.


Now write it out a hundred times, and get it right!

ROMANI ITE DOMUM

36. Bible Theme Park Faces Opposition in Tennessee

Comment #181182 by DingoDave on May 16, 2008 at 3:00 pm

Comment 51:
"Maybe a little dinner theater where you get to raise a glass at Lot while he fucks his daughters?"

The 'Sodom and Gommorah Bar and Grill'
Literally! :)

37. Bible Theme Park Faces Opposition in Tennessee

Comment #181180 by DingoDave on May 16, 2008 at 2:49 pm

Here's a photo from an already established Christian theme park called 'The Holy Land Experience'.
Behold a blood soaked Jesus being paraded through the streets while strapped to a crossbeam.
Just the thing to entertain the kiddies.
WARNING: Not for the faint hearted.
http://www.theholylandexperience.com/images/A2004.jpg

38. Bible Theme Park Faces Opposition in Tennessee

Comment #180834 by DingoDave on May 15, 2008 at 11:25 pm

How about a Sodom and Gomorrah obstacle course where they rain down fire and brimstone on you.
If you make it to the end, you get to watch some old guy dressed up as Lot, having sex with two girls who are young enough to be his daughters.
(For adults only. Proof of age may be required.)
8-O

39. Bible Theme Park Faces Opposition in Tennessee

Comment #180829 by DingoDave on May 15, 2008 at 11:01 pm

Another idea for a roaming mascot.

How about a guy wandering around naked and barefoot, pretending to be the prophet Isaiah? (Isaiah 20:2-4)

40. Bible Theme Park Faces Opposition in Tennessee

Comment #180821 by DingoDave on May 15, 2008 at 10:42 pm

Here's another idea for a roaming Bible character/mascot .

How about a guy (or 2) in a donkey suit wandering around chatting to the punters, pretending to be Baalim's ass?

Or how about a real donkey wandering about with a cassette player strapped to it's head blasting out bible verses?

41. Bible Theme Park Faces Opposition in Tennessee

Comment #180801 by DingoDave on May 15, 2008 at 8:31 pm

Here are a couple more suggestions from the same Pharyngula thread.


-I've always thought a theme park ride inspired by Dante's Inferno would be cool...the line could be in a forest environment, then you get into a theme park car next to a projection of Virgil (similar to the atheistic Disneyland Haunted House ride) and you go in a spiraling downward fashion through all the different circles of hell. Part roller-coaster, part edutainment, part gratuitous excess...it could be great!

-larger-than-life "biblical" mascots roaming the park, posing for photos. I WANT LOT! . . . WITH OOOZZING SORES!

Etha Williams has suggested that we send our ideas to their website, at:

http://www.bibleparkusa.com/comment.html

42. Bible Theme Park Faces Opposition in Tennessee

Comment #180792 by DingoDave on May 15, 2008 at 8:04 pm

Some suggestions for the park's designers from commentors on PZ Myer's blog pharyngula.
You can find them here. LOL :-)
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2008/05/unclear_on_the_concept.php#comments

-I like the idea of larger-than-life biblical characters wandering around and yucking it up for kids, but we'll need some really good characters. The four horsemen of the apocalypse? Goliath? Creepy ol' man Methuselah?
-I want to go see the crucifixion ride! Then right after that - the witch burning show (they use REAL witches!!).
-There's a ride called "Rapture", it's kind of like a slingshot.
-Got to have a casino and a wedding chapel.
-Of course they'll have the Hell ride - with lots of wailing and gnashing of teeth.
-They have a version of whack-a-mole called smite-the-Amalekite.
-I want to ride through the Tunnel of Sin.
-One of those boards with a character's body painted on but with a hole cut where the face would be and you stand there with your own face stuck in the hole for a photo? I'm picturing Jesus on the cross only it's MY face. That would be awesome!
And instead of a Tunnel of Love, you can take a nice boat ride on a river of fire!
- and at night, after the kiddies are asleep in the authentic biblical motel, out in back of the authentic biblical steakhouse and cocktail lounge: the Sodom and Gomorrah Show and Revue!!!!!!
-Mmm, 'exotic dancers'. Salome's dance of the seven veils... yummy. Severed heads served up on platters....
-Oh, I'm sure the Big Bucket O' Snakes will be a big seller at the self-serve cafeteria, where "The Lord Helps Those Who Help Themselves!"
-or the Hellfire and Brimstone Barbecue Pit
-bloody mary for Sunday Brunch?!
-Why not a Speaking in Tongues Karaoke Bar?
-At all the eateries, the salt shakers should be in the shape of Lot's wife.
-a field for Biblical battle reenactments (Jericho, Gideon vs. the Midianites, etc) complete with loudspeakers to emit the sounds of screaming babies and wailing mothers, as they can't use real babies...that's our department :)
-...and at random points a couple of she-bears leap out of the bushes and eat your children! Up to 42 a day!
-I want a petting zoo/science exhibit where kids can use hands-on biblical science to breed striped animals.
-I suggested that they have a reenactment of Numbers 31, especially the return of the Israelites to Moses with their Midianite captives.
-Navigate an obstacle course of brats insulting you. If you make it through, when you kneel to pray to the Lord after clearing the final course, you engage a switch that has a bear comes out and eat your tormentors.
-The David slingshot game--fell the giant, get 200 foreskins to buy your first wife (Okay, so it's combining two different David sagas--so what?).
-I can't believe nobody has gone into the Passover saga! Paint as many doors as you can with blood in X number of seconds, get a one of those weird Passover toys PZ linked to a while back.
-And waterslides. It's got to have waterslides - call it The River Styx.
-The all you can eat salad bar (every fundie loves all you can eat anything) needs to be the Garden of Eden.

43. Church of Scotland mediators to quell disputes

Comment #178624 by DingoDave on May 11, 2008 at 7:03 pm

What ever happened to the promise that, "there will be one flock, and one shepherd"? - John 10:16

44. 'My daughter deserved to die for falling in love'

Comment #178621 by DingoDave on May 11, 2008 at 6:55 pm

Quote from Abdel-Qader Ali:
"Our girls should respect their religion, their family and their bodies."

Did anyone else notice the order in which this barbarian noted what he thought should have been his daughter's priorities? They are religion, followed by family, followed by her individual opinion about how to use her own body.

The father appears to be a totalitarian control freak. And why should this be surprising?
After all, his first priority (his religion) takes precidence over his family, or any of his family member's individual opinions.

The word Islam, when translated into English, simply means SUBMISSION. That's what makes this religion so dangerous.

When 'true believers' such as Abdel-Qader Ali and his sons, act upon the bullshit being spouted by their imams or any other self appointed spokesmen for God, and willingly submit their own sense of humanity to the dictates of a violent myth, then violence against other people is almost sure to follow .

45. My Response to Rabbi Shmuley Boteach

Comment #178602 by DingoDave on May 11, 2008 at 5:19 pm

notsobad wrote:
"Saying the classic 'You scream like a baboon' would be more appropriate given the debate is about evolution."

Given that Rabbi Boteach, baboons, and Hitler all attempt to whip their audiences into a mindless frenzy with their ridiculous screechings and exhortations, then perhaps all three analogies are appropriate.

46. Evolution: What is 'Natural'?

Comment #178599 by DingoDave on May 11, 2008 at 5:09 pm

Kind of illustrates the lie that Rabbi Shmuley Boteach was trying to inflict upon the audience during his IdeaCity speech doesn't it?

47. My Response to Rabbi Shmuley Boteach

Comment #178258 by DingoDave on May 11, 2008 at 3:27 am

DalaiDrivel wrote:
"Your collection of quotes was a very conflicting mix of entertainment, and infuriation at the same time, which stems from Boteach's wankerness..."

I believe that the correct term is 'wankerism' : )

48. My Response to Rabbi Shmuley Boteach

Comment #178254 by DingoDave on May 11, 2008 at 3:14 am

Is Boteach's woeful mis-understanding of science and logic typical of most rabbis, or is he an exceptional case?
If he is a typical example, then I pity all the poor sods who are exposed to such drivel before they are old enough, or wise enough, to see through the bullshit.
Boteach seems to be a classic example of how religious beliefs can distort reality in what appears to be an otherwise healthy brain.
Many clergymen appear to be completely unashamed about manufacturing their own facts to suit themselves.
Mike Earl said with reference to clergymen;
"If they find that their beliefs don't conform to reality, then they simply make reality conform to their beliefs".
Problem solved.

49. My Response to Rabbi Shmuley Boteach

Comment #178219 by DingoDave on May 11, 2008 at 12:03 am

For your reading pleasure, I have assembled some highlights, or rather 'lowlights' of Rabbi Boteach's impassioned rant at Ideacity. It certainly couldn't be called a debate, as Richard Dawkins wasn't even there to respond to him.
I have paraphrased some of his statements, because I fear having a mental meltdown if I have to listen to his inane blatherings one more time. I wish Richard could have been there to counter some of his egregious errors, outright falshoods, and straw men.
The man behaved just like some pentecostal televangilist. He continually paced up and down the stage, 'like some silk-suited animal in a cage', intermittantly screeching at his astonished audience.


-'Richard had to catch a plane, so he's not even going to hear my comments'

-'Richard and I had a series of debates at Oxford University when I was the Rabbi there.'

-'What about family? I wish he (Richard) was here so that I could tell him that.'

-'Is marriage a true institution. Doesn't evolution say that male nature is to seek the widest distribution in the gene pool?'

-'Monogamy is a lie. It's not natural to be monogamous. 50 percent of American marriages fail.
In fact, if the whole purpose of evolution is merely the propogation of a species (because life has no higher purpose or meaning) then why do we even have sex any more, because we can artificially inseminate people...? Why do we still believe in sex?'

-'If the average American only has sex once per week, then why do we still believe in sex?
Once again I wish Richard were here so he could respond.'

-'He (Richard) said during one of our debates at oxford that he didn't believe in love, and most evolutionary biologists don't either. God can't be seen touched felt heard , and neither can love.
An evolutionary biologist will tell you that love is delusional. A trick that is played on the mind to help you to have sex. Yet Richard Dawkins never attacked the institution of marriage, even though it doesn't seem to be very true.'

-'Richard Dawkins didn't attack marriage, sex, human relationships, the family, even though it's not true.'

-'Our nature doesn't seem to be programmed for monogamy, and it doesn't work any more.'

-'It's only religion that bothers him. I wonder why? I've always wondered that in all of our debates.'

-'In this book that I published while I was a rabbi at Oxford...'

-'Richard himself knows that it's still only the theory of evolution. Scientists have not yet called it the fact of evolution, and there's many reasons for that.'

-'Steve gould totally disagreed with Dawkins conception of evolution.'

-'Punctuated equilibrium was invented because we have no intermediate stages. No missing links. we've dug up the whole world and the fossil record is so vastly incomplete.'

-'If 99% of mutations are all destructive, then how could evolution happen?'

-'Given enough time anything can happen. Correct? Isn't that what he (Richard) said?'

-'The age of the universe used to be 4 billion years, then it went to 10 billion. Now we're at 14 billion. No doubt, by the time my kids grow up, we will be saying that that the universe is 30 billion years old.'

-'Richard Dawkins believes in time. Period! Given enough time, anything can happen.'

-'I believe in an infinately powerful god. Dawkins believes in an infinately powerful time. It's the same thing, we just call it by a different name. It's still a belief system.'

-'Dawkins and hitchens believe that religion is all about creation.'

-'No other animal has a conscience. A conscience could never evolve, because it's not something genetic.'

-Boteach accuses Dawkins and Hitchens of believing that religion is the cause of all the pain in the world.

-'Atheistic regimes killed more people in the 20th century than all the religious persecutions. Stalin. Mao.'
-'Hitler hated religion. Hitler hated christianity.'

-'The central message of religion is 'do not kill.'

-'Thomas huxley believed that blacks were the missing link between whites and apes.'

-'Creationism is the rational explanation for the notion of human equality.'

-'The central message of religion is that what you become, is all in your hands. Period. It's the exact opposite of the message of evolution, which is that you are an animal which cannot control his destiny.'

-'If you're an evolutionist, how could you believe that there is anything wrong with adultery? It's in your genes. You can't control it.'

-'The central message of religion is that what we do is what we become. It's the one unifying message of all religions. It is the centrepiece of western civilisation, because every one of you believes it. You raise your kids with that message, whether your an atheist or the most religious fanatic on earth. We are not just thinking primates. We are not just conditioned and controlled by our instincts. We are capable of performing generous actions which are against our nature. We are capable of swimming against the tide of the soulless message of modern materialistic society. A godles, soulless society which says that nothing but money is the currency by which we purchase our self esteem.'

-'We all trace our origin to one heavenly father.'

Bloody Hell, what a wanker!

50. Richard Dawkins and Bill Maher

Comment #159597 by DingoDave on April 12, 2008 at 3:30 pm

I agree with Richard Dawkins, that a literal belief in the Adam and Eve myth (complete with a real live talking snake), is fundamental to the Christian view of the universe, and our place in it.

A website calling itself 'Creation On the Web.com' reviews 'The God Delusion' and quotes Richard's views on the matter.
Of course they draw different conclusions than most of us posting on this forum, but read for yourself and draw your own conclusions.

Richard wrote:

"Original sin itself comes straight from the Old Testament myth of Adam and Eve. Their sin, eating the fruit of a forbidden tree seems mild enough to merit a mere reprimand. But ... They and all their descendants were banished forever from the Garden of Eden, deprived of the gift of eternal life... " (p. 251)

"But now, the sado-masochism. God incarnated himself as a man, Jesus, in order that he should be tortured and executed in atonement for the hereditary sin of Adam. Ever since Paul expounded this repellent doctrine, Jesus has been worshipped as the redeemer of all our sins." (p. 252)

"To cap it all, Adam, the supposed perpetrator of the original sin, never existed in the first place: an awkward fact" (p. 253)

"Oh, but of course, the story of Adam and Eve was only ever symbolic, wasn't it? Symbolic? So, in order to impress himself, Jesus had himself tortured and executed, in vicarious punishment for a symbolic sin committed by a non-existent individual? As I said, barking mad, as well as viciously unpleasant." (emphasis in original; p. 253)

Now for Creation On the Web's assessment of Richard's argument:

'However, what is more pertinent here is that Dawkins reveals his understanding of the central tenets of the Christian faith. Without Adam's sin, Jesus' atoning sacrifice for sins (foreshadowed by the Abraham/Isaac incident; i.e. 'no accident') becomes meaningless. The doctrine of original sin and the atonement is, as he says, at the very 'heart of New Testament theology'; we heartily agree.'

'Later, Dawkins asks why God couldn't just forgive sins without sacrifice but he knows the biblical answer and actually refers directly to Hebrews 9:22. So Dawkins does understand Christianity much better than many ordinary Christians, but he wilfully rejects it.'
Other examples of Dawkins' criticism of compromising 'believers', who pick and choose which parts of the Bible they are comfortable with, are found on pages 157 (belief in the Virgin Birth and the Resurrection), 238 (Genesis not literal), and 247 (Scriptures symbolic or literal).
http://creationontheweb.com/content/view/4900

Here is another good, but more succinct summary of Richard's argument in 'The God Delusion' from another website.

"One of the funniest moments occurs when Dawkins, exasperated by the ability of liberal Christians to dismiss 'difficult' elements of the Bible as 'symbolic', and yet still to retain belief in the central Christian doctrine of atonement, blows his top; "Oh, but the story of Adam and Eve was only ever symbolic, wasn't it? Symbolic? So, in order to impress himself, Jesus had himself tortured and executed, in vicarious punishment for a symbolic sin committed by a non-existent individual? As I said, barking mad, as well as viciously unpleasant." Strong stuff, but, as is the case throughout The God Delusion, it's difficult to find fault with Dawkins' reasoning."
http://www.skinnymag.co.uk/content/view/3585/