1. The Boundaries of Belief

Comment #205144 by Lucas on July 6, 2008 at 4:46 pm

Anybody want to guess the difference in money and time spent between Pew and Sam's deal? Hilarious that Sam was able to get as large a sample and even more useful results, minus millions of dollars.

2. Evangelical Christians sign up to a 'Church within a Church'

Comment #203386 by Lucas on July 2, 2008 at 7:16 pm

At one point, the comic Transmetropolitan by Warren Ellis and Darick Robertson shows a "religion convention" very much like what you describe, scottishgeologist, but even crazier.

Schism is always good, for them AND for us. The religion evolves; polarizing, then settling, and what's left is a finer and more modern version of the religion (which we may or may not like) and overall less of them. Their power diminishes as it is divided, and whatever is left is easier for us to deal with, because it is either less offensive, and thus relatively harmless, or more offensive, and then we can take action.

3. Obama Wants to Expand Role of Religious Groups

Comment #203383 by Lucas on July 2, 2008 at 6:59 pm

newandrew - Well said.

gummidge - I doubt there is any plot to do this, but I do think that what you describe might be the end result anyway. So maybe there is a bright side to his backpeddling.

Incidentally, after showing a recent clip of Obama saying the exact same thing as a clip of Bush from a couple years ago, Jon Stewart simply threw his arms up and screamed, "NOOOOOOOOOO!" I think that about sums it up. No heroes here folks, just politicians. But we have to push him hard, because I'm sure he'll be the next president.

4. Former state science director sues over intelligent design e-mail

Comment #203380 by Lucas on July 2, 2008 at 6:40 pm

This is a big case. We need to get behind this one with all we've got. Winning will change the whole debate, maybe even ending it.

5. Non-voters: It's all in God's hands

Comment #200359 by Lucas on June 27, 2008 at 11:51 am

The results are part of the nationally representative Baylor Religion Survey, 2005.

"It can be reasoned that if one believes God determines worldly affairs, then there is little reason for individuals to participate in civic events," study leader Robyn Driskell and her colleagues write in the June issue of the journal Social Science Quarterly.

6. Stop distorting young minds!

Comment #200357 by Lucas on June 27, 2008 at 11:44 am

Comment #7 - My god there is another me! And it sounds like my personal cartoon channel!

Comment #2 - I am man. Yes, I am.

7. The Latest Wedge Document

Comment #200351 by Lucas on June 27, 2008 at 11:33 am

Discipline - That article was great. What's weird is that it's a joke, but it's exactly what's being done with ID. There is no exaggeration, just parallel. I propose, as other's have on this site before, that every time we get any kind of ID argument we just say, "Gravity," and leave it at that.

Vecingetorix - I'm a Columbia grad who grew up in urban Indiana (there is such a thing) and has lived in Oregon, Arizona, New York, Turkey, and Malawi: and you are right. There are negative attitudes and assumptions between urbanites and ruralites, Easterners and Westerners, coastal folks and midwesterners, southerners and just about everybody. Much of this is small minded bullshit, meant only to boost the ego of those uncomfortable with living anywhere but where they are from. I personally find no place to be overall superior or inferior to any other, but each has its own qualities, good and bad. However, there is a distribution of qualities that does correspond to geography, and that plays a part as well. Does that help?

8. The Latest Wedge Document

Comment #199806 by Lucas on June 26, 2008 at 11:29 am

Is there another me? I didn't send this link. I do, occasionally, but none of them have ever been posted. Last one was June 10th.

EDIT: I do like this bit ever-so-much, though. "I don't see hordes of scientists beating down church doors to teach rationalism to parishioners in their pews. In a fair world, supernaturalists would similarly refrain from foisting their beliefs on kids in science classes."

9. Creationist critics get their comeuppance

Comment #199802 by Lucas on June 26, 2008 at 11:23 am

Exquisite. How many times do they have to be shot down like this before they just shut up?

10. Spanish parliament to extend rights to apes

Comment #199783 by Lucas on June 26, 2008 at 11:01 am

Excellent. Break down that wall. For too long we have lived with the homicidal hubris that we are somehow intrinsically more valuable than other forms of life. Without God, without a soul, all of that breaks down, and rather than losing our sacred status and becoming profane, all the rest of the glorious life on this planet becomes as sacred as we are, thus destroying the distinction entirely. To enshrine that in law is more than I could have ever hoped for.

11. Band T-shirt draws charge

Comment #199352 by Lucas on June 25, 2008 at 2:55 pm

This reminds me of that time in middle school when my buddy almost got sent home for wearing the Metallica t-shirt that says "METAL UP YOUR ASS!" with the knife coming out of the toilet. We negotiated, and put a piece of masking tape over the word "ass." Then we took a sharpie and wrote "ASS" on the piece of tape.

My pops told me long ago to avoid the C word unless it's totally necessary, though I understand it has gained a new meaning in England. I really find it hard to say, in fact. I find it weird that this isn't an obscenity issue, but a religious one. Can I just have a shirt that says "cunt" all by itself?

12. World Youth Day condom protest against Pope

Comment #198658 by Lucas on June 24, 2008 at 10:50 am

The Raelians may be a little wacky, but they are relatively harmless, and in this case, they are being positively helpful. As we've all discussed before, you don't have to agree with someone on everything to accept their help on the important things. Clones, space gods, ex-race car driver prophets or not, the followers of Rael have the right attitude about condoms, so I welcome their help in challenging those who do not.

13. Award-winning comedian George Carlin dies

Comment #198209 by Lucas on June 23, 2008 at 11:25 am

"The whole problem with this idea of obscenity and indecency, and all of these things - bad language and whatever - it's all caused by one basic thing, and that is: religious superstition," Carlin told the AP in a 2004 interview. "There's an idea that the human body is somehow evil and bad and there are parts of it that are especially evil and bad, and we should be ashamed. Fear, guilt and shame are built into the attitude toward sex and the body. ... It's reflected in these prohibitions and these taboos that we have."

Love ya, George. Many thanks old man.

14. Teen's death blamed on faith healing

Comment #196671 by Lucas on June 20, 2008 at 10:16 am

comment 41 - Hobbit, you're thinking about this backwards, from the unintended end result to the decision to make a law. The law about 14-yr-olds determining their own best medical interests was intended to protect children from parents who either refuse treatment or insist on medicating their children unnecessarily. It was a good idea. It's being twisted in this instance. It is only because the child was brainwashed that he made such a poor choice, and we have yet to figure out how to legislate against parents teaching their children bullshit. Unfortunately, the flip side of a having laws based on the freedom to determine one's own fate is that such freedom is not beneficial to anyone in the hands of idiots, especially to themselves.

15. Teen's death blamed on faith healing

Comment #196661 by Lucas on June 20, 2008 at 10:04 am

comment 11 - Hey, marv78rpm, go fuck yourself. Back off my state. I wasn't even born there, nor do I live there now, but back off nonetheless. Need I point out the stupidity of blaming the actions of the Followers of Christ on the state they live in? Wasn't there a problem in Minnesota recently? Splice in any geographic location and you would be wrong, and you would also be pissing off the people who live there or love the place. And as I've repeated many times, and apparently need to keep repeating, there is not a more affable and intellectually comfortable place for atheists in the US than Oregon. It's just too bad the economy sucks.

16. Kenneth Miller on Colbert Report

Comment #195467 by Lucas on June 18, 2008 at 9:27 am

Colbert is indeed a practicing and fully believing Catholic, or at least that is what he says when NOT playing his public persona. (Look for the NPR interview from 2005). I also think he is a highly intelligent man with a top notch bullshit-o-meter. I would venture his religiosity is probably more complex than any of us can conjecture.

17. Reverse Engineering The Brain To Model Mind-body Interactions

Comment #192584 by Lucas on June 13, 2008 at 1:14 pm

Ran across this a couple days ago. Seems to indicate that brain deterioration is perhaps less powerful than we think. Am I wrong? Is there indeed some sort of specific loss of cells, proteins, synapses, dendrites, etc. that are normal and not environmentally created? I guess what I mean is, given the ability to, say, grow a new body and transplant an old brain into it, would the brain cease to function just because it is old?

"115-year-old Woman's Brain in Tip-Top Shape"

http://www.livescience.com/health/080609-oldest-brain.html

18. From Big Bang to Us - Made Easy

Comment #192580 by Lucas on June 13, 2008 at 12:56 pm

First one is great. Especially liked that last line. I appreciate the condensing of this information, not just because it simplifies it for the layman, but because it is dense and quick, without filler. I don't feel like I'm being spoken to like a child as I do with most science documentaries. No BS here, just facts, explained lucidly.

19. Unlike Others, U.S. Defends Freedom to Offend in Speech

Comment #192265 by Lucas on June 12, 2008 at 3:43 pm

Peace - Nah, I sort of thought you were kidding. Almost deleted my post, but I figured I'd leave it in case somebody actually did think otherwise.

20. Intelligent people 'less likely to believe in God'

Comment #192261 by Lucas on June 12, 2008 at 3:37 pm

7Fred7 - "I imagine that would be unlikely to be picked up in a standard survey. " Absolutely, and that's why standard surveys do us almost no good. I do encourage everyone to do that UCCS thing on the Featured page, though. The more data the better, even if there are flaws in the methodology. Of course, as I've pointed out before, the religious make-up of Colorado Springs is quite interesting. You gotta wonder who these professors actually are. See "Religion and Public Life in the Mountain West: Sacred Landscapes in Transition" by Jan Shipp et al.

21. Intelligent people 'less likely to believe in God'

Comment #192245 by Lucas on June 12, 2008 at 3:21 pm

mordacious1 - Black Bolt in fact has no voice; or rather, his whisper can shatter worlds.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Bolt

I've considered changing the avatar to my real face, as Black Bolt looks particularly arrogant in this drawing by Moebius, but I figure we all learn about each other in some oblique way by the avatars we choose. We might learn more by seeing each other's actual faces, but then again maybe not.

As far as the discussion goes, I just think we should all be more careful about writing off religious believers as either crazy or stupid. There are just too many counter-examples. That doesn't mean that ignorance and mental imbalance don't help encourage the acceptance of absurd belief, but there must be something more to it. I've angled my work to try to figure out what this something is, but I don't expect any clear results anytime soon. I once said to my friend something like, "All religion is caused by epileptics, schizophrenics, junkies, and conmen." This was a gross over-simplification, and while I still think it's sort of true, as I was speaking about messiahs and leaders, not followers, I think it ignores the fact that some totally sane, sober, honest people have religious experiences, visions, etc., and they communicate those. Outright derision, and blowing it all off as crazy and stupid, cuts us off from further fruitful inquiry.

22. Intelligent people 'less likely to believe in God'

Comment #192184 by Lucas on June 12, 2008 at 2:27 pm

Well, that's all very nice, but this guy has proven nothing. It is FAR more complex than he presents it. The religious = stupid, or ignorant, or uneducated argument holds a kernel of truth, but over-simplifying does not help us reach the actual answer. There are lots of correlations and causes, but there has simply not been enough work done to make any conclusions. Gallup polls are almost meaningless to the larger question here.

23. Unlike Others, U.S. Defends Freedom to Offend in Speech

Comment #192175 by Lucas on June 12, 2008 at 2:14 pm

"Is it really as simple as that? Only masser can have a gun, not the cotton picker?"

Awfully predictable and petty reaction. From what I can tell, Al is just stating the facts, with no judgment, racist or otherwise, implied. There are of course myriad social reasons that explain these facts, but I'm not an expert, so I'll leave it. Sufficed to say, all sorts of historical injustices have indeed occurred, but even with complete sympathy and empathy toward those causes and the victims of such injustices, usually one dude shooting another has nothing to do with anything other than greed or rage, neither of which are excused by social ills.

24. Unlike Others, U.S. Defends Freedom to Offend in Speech

Comment #192130 by Lucas on June 12, 2008 at 1:31 pm

"compensate Muslims for injuring their 'dignity, feelings and self-respect.' "

The waaaaaambulance is on its way! Waah! Waah!

EDIT: Peace, you got to it first. I guess "ditto" will do.

al and FF - Yup. Spot on, both of you.

25. Godless

Comment #192118 by Lucas on June 12, 2008 at 1:15 pm

The Obama video is great. If he stuck to that, we'd all be happy. It's too bad he has to, or feels he has to, pander to the believers. There are parts of this speech that the most fervent would object to, but I think most believers would be okay with what he said. They would do well to realize that they would all benefit from this attitude toward religion.

EDIT: Also, I'm happy to let him say a bunch of pandering crap to get into office, as long as he actually operates according to the ideas in this speech.

26. The 14-year-old Afghan suicide bomber

Comment #192101 by Lucas on June 12, 2008 at 12:53 pm

FF- "If these people voluntarily choose to live in the 7th Century, there isn't much we can do about it. This is the price you pay for imposing democracy on a society that isn't ready for it."

Absolutely right.

27. The 14-year-old Afghan suicide bomber

Comment #191107 by Lucas on June 10, 2008 at 8:14 am

bucketchemist - Yeah, okay, maybe I was being a little bit extreme, but I really didn't mean that literally. It was a purposefully provocative phrase. But killing people that brainwash children into murdering themselves and others seems fair, and is definitely not the same kind of "evil." If you consider all killing of humans to be equally bad, no matter the circumstance, then there is no point in arguing this any further.

al-rawandi - We're on the same page here, I think. I was just exaggerating. Although, have you seen the new Rambo movie? That thing Rambo does to the Myanmar soldier who is about to rape the missionary lady? I would do that to these guys. Seriously. There are some people who are so despicable and detrimental to other living creatures that they should be simply removed from the population. But I think bombing and major warfare is just too imprecise and costly.

28. The 14-year-old Afghan suicide bomber

Comment #191019 by Lucas on June 10, 2008 at 5:52 am

"The mullahs who groomed him are guilty of a child abuse that is every bit as bad as the sexual abuse perpetrated by most pedophiles." I'd say it's far, far worse, actually. Coercing children to murder involves both child abuse and conspiracy to murder, and leads to the death of the child and many others. This poor kid. He is guilty of nothing. He was used and abused and threatened into a course of action he clearly was not interested in himself. Punishing him for attempted murder would be like punishing child sex slaves in Thailand for prostitution, as if their actions are in any way their own fault.

Am I right that given the information the kid has, our soldiers over there could go find these two Mullah jackasses, gut them like pigs, and disband the school? What have we been doing over there for the past 7 years if this is still going on? Does it not make sense, in the interest of saving lives, to go to the source?

29. Trailer for Religulous

Comment #190827 by Lucas on June 9, 2008 at 4:33 pm

lozzer - "I like Maher but i wish he didn't support the terrorist organization PETA." Okay now that is just a fucking retarded thing to say. Some of you seem to be taking your "sciencism" a little too dogmatically. It is perfectly reasonable to be opposed to medical testing on animals. Personally, I don't like when people hurt animals either, but I recognize the usefulness of medical testing for my future immortality as a weird nano-cyborg. So be it. I do think its a little odd to treat animals worse than humans. What Bill Maher thinks about this subject is about as relevant to his atheist activism as the kind of porn he prefers. Read the ad hominem article. Do like your avatar there, though.

Soilworker - Ha ha!

Nova - Who do you work for? In what delusional reality do you live in that pharmaceutical companies DON'T profit from deception and bribery? Generally, I'm very happy with all the wonderful drugs there are, but there are indeed quite a few that are harmful or useless or worse, and sold to over-medicated rubes who look for all their answers in pill form.

30. Couple charged in Norway over genital mutilation of daughters

Comment #190345 by Lucas on June 8, 2008 at 11:00 pm

RamziD - There are occasional "sea of glass" statements on this page, and they are usually heavily denounced. We tend not to let people get away with saying stupid things like that, or anything stupid, like your original comment. You have a very small, tiny point, and a point worth noting, but you're totally being too sensitive in this instance, unless you were commenting on more than the posts on this article. No amount of petulant "oh, I used the wrong word, you nit-pickers" bullshit gets you out of playing the race card so stupidly. Most of everything else you have to say is fine, but that was a stupendously lame and offensive remark, so show some humility and stop sounding like a wounded teenager. We should of course be ever-vigilant in our watch for xenophobia and racism, especially when it is mixed in with other more rational attitudes. But crying wolf helps no one.

On another note, when I was doing work in Africa in 2004, I actually had a number of my non-African colleagues spout that cultural relativist crap about FGM. I was astounded, and their moral weakness disgusted me. That said, I bailed out of there partially because I was very agitated and confused about my reaction to some of the more horrifying cultural realities. I decided that there was a line to be drawn, and that one should neither impose one's moral system entirely nor assume that a different system is okay out of respect for different cultures. Some things are just not okay to do, and I became more and more vocal about that as I lived there, putting me in some danger, given that I was supposed to blend in, not antagonize. But when you see five young children giggling with glee while stoning a stray dog to death in a pit, or hear of your neighbor raping his 9-year-old daughter, you damn well have a right to say, "No! You cannot do this. You must be punished for this." If you do not act on this, you are weak, and worse, you are complicit.

31. Albinos, Long Shunned, Face Threat in Tanzania

Comment #190332 by Lucas on June 8, 2008 at 10:12 pm

So the question, then, is: should these witchdoctors be held accountable for encouraging traffic in human body parts? I suppose that kind of depends on whether the witchdoctor in question is purposefully deceiving people in order to profit from murder, or if he/she honestly believes in what they tell people. Are they just con artists or do they really think they are helping? Does it matter? How can we even know? There are more benign effects and uses of witchdoctor magic than this one, but even then people are being deceived. Should the believers be held accountable for their gullibility? They are rubes, but not just rubes; murdering rubes.

If the Tanzanian government really wants to protect albinos, it will search out and put out of business these witchdoctors. They are not hard to find; I've met a few. If they really want to protect albinos, they will publicly and loudly discourage superstitious belief. But there are many, many reasons why they will do neither, not the least of which is the cognitive dissonance between "albino parts are not magical" and all the other crap they DO believe.

32. A word for nonbelievers

Comment #189655 by Lucas on June 6, 2008 at 10:35 pm

Well done. This is what we should all be doing. Let's do it!

33. Hints of 'time before Big Bang'

Comment #189650 by Lucas on June 6, 2008 at 10:27 pm

The universe does too have boarders! Millions of us! But of course it has no borders...

sorry...

Otherwise, dragonfirematrix, yes. You're freakin' on it. Humbling thoughts, eh?

"Hey, folks, just a little humor for what is likely to be the reality of the universe and our existence. " - Can I use that for the title of a book?

34. Hints of 'time before Big Bang'

Comment #189609 by Lucas on June 6, 2008 at 4:43 pm

Steve, your bread metaphor is awesome. I really like the idea of infinite, eternal, multidirectional expansion, and the multiverse being kind of squishy and constantly moving. I guess what I was saying above could be said as: universes could be kind of like cookies on a baking sheet when you don't space them out enough and they expand and merge into each other.

35. Hints of 'time before Big Bang'

Comment #189576 by Lucas on June 6, 2008 at 2:25 pm

"Their model suggests that new universes could be created spontaneously from apparently empty space. "

I've been saying things like this for years. Glad they finally have some data to back up the idea. I think I've gone into the eternally exploding multiple universes thing before, but basically, yes, universes come out of apparently nothing. However, they do come from something, probably dark matter or other invisible forces, or from the collision of parts from different universes. There is no big crunch, nor is there any singularity. (Spot on, Steve, spot on.) Time is linear, to some degree, and space is infinite in every direction. There is no void, really, but there is probably a finite amount of matter and energy. Maybe not, though. Each universe may expand to the point of going cold and disapating, without contact with any other extra-universal matter or energy, depending on how much space there is inbetween expanding universes. The flat answer to what happened before the big bang is likely just what happened after, and has and will over and over again eternally. Matter and energy just change shape. It's like an endless fireworks show in space, where the space itself creates the explosions.

36. The Great Evangelical Decline

Comment #188834 by Lucas on June 4, 2008 at 6:08 pm

Squinky - Mmm, I don't think so, actually. Check out the ARIS survey and the various articles that have been written based on its findings. Sure looks like atheism (or the term I prefer, non-belief) is on the rise. I think that a lot of the distortion in perspective around here comes from geographical location. When you're in the middle of a super religious region, it's hard to see how it's declining.

liberalartist - Of course we shouldn't just stand by. I said as much. Personally, I'm gearing for one of those postdoc positions at the NCSE in a few years to see if I can't do something to help spread good science education.

Christine - Hang out a bit, there'll be plenty of profanity. Where's Diacanu when we need him?

FightingFalcon - Thank you, sir.

37. Darwin still causing waves after 150 years

Comment #188724 by Lucas on June 4, 2008 at 12:24 pm

JLD - I believe Prof. Coyne has worked/is working on this, and...

kaiser - His stress of "accept" over "believe" in his lecture was indeed right on.

38. The Great Evangelical Decline

Comment #188719 by Lucas on June 4, 2008 at 12:16 pm

"What all this means is that we were duped."

I don't know if I've said it here, but I've been trying to argue this basic point for a couple of years now. The success of the Bush administration and vocalness of the Evangelicals has created an overblown perception of their power and influence. I have definitely said it here recently that all our worrying and whining about creationism is similarly overblown. The reality is that we have three key advantages: there are more of us, we are smarter than they are (not inherently, but in terms of education and knowledge base), and, fortunately, we're right. They really don't stand a chance. That's not to say we should become lax in our defense of evolutionary science or the principles of western enlightenment, but we do often seem a little overly reactionary and paranoid. Don't worry. We're winning these arguments, despite the loudness of some of our opponents. Consider this phenomenon more like the bleat of a dying sheep than a call to arms; they are desperate, because they understand that they're losing even better than we do.

39. Sun's properties not 'fine-tuned' for life

Comment #183658 by Lucas on May 22, 2008 at 12:34 pm

It's all very clear to me now, Don Quix.

40. Kenya mob reportedly burns 11 'witches'

Comment #183638 by Lucas on May 22, 2008 at 11:59 am

When I was living in Malawi, I made a joke about how I could probably convince people in my village that I was a powerful sorcerer. It wasn't funny. I was warned with extreme seriousness to NOT do that, as another American had done so once and was harassed and driven out of his village. Apparently it took some time for him to figure out what he had said to cause all the problems; then he had to leave the country.

I also talked at length with a witchdoctor and watched him perform an exorcism on a woman who was bedeviled by the demons of alcoholism. There is a very long anthropological history to all this, probably from the first time an ape ate a mushroom. All of this is pretty typical tribal religion. The scapegoating of the elderly serves a social purpose in that it allows the tribe/village to focus all their problems into one physical form, and then destroy it, thus destroying their problems. It is also a way of culling the herd of its weakest members. Are there any anthropologists out there that care to explain further?

I would caution against taking such a negative view of traditional African religion, though. Yes, it is equally stupid and incorrect as any other religion, and there are plenty of examples of misguided, ferocious violence. But you cannot look at a superstitious African villager the same way as you can a creationist from Arkansas. There is a difference between following along with your stone age society without any opportunity or knowledge to know any better and the willful ignorance within a modern society shown by religious crazies in the west. Example: I mentioned dinosaurs to my language teacher, who had a college degree and spoke perfect English, and he was blown away. He had never heard of them. I drew a bunch of cartoons and explained the timeline and what their names were and all that, and he still didn't believe me. When I explained that the skeletons of these giant lizard monsters were still in the earth all around us, he laughed and insisted I was pulling his leg. The point is that no one had ever mentioned dinosaurs to this fairly intelligent man before. Ever. That is very different from people who have been learning about dinosaurs from grade school, have access to the internet, and then deny paleontology.

41. Proving ID is Creationism

Comment #183255 by Lucas on May 21, 2008 at 3:52 pm

Good video. Never hurts to hear more detail and have more ammo.

One thing, though - and I mean no disrespect to anyone here - but I'm getting really sick of the use of the word "IDiots." It annoys me almost as much as "New Atheists" and is equally useless as a descriptor. Really. Sort of clever to begin with, not so much anymore, and it seems to often take the place of saying something substantive. And its a lame insult at that. Anyone with me on this?

42. Non-religious summer camps develop niche

Comment #182475 by Lucas on May 20, 2008 at 8:00 am

Sounds good to me. I'm going to send the link to my mom and see if my little brother can go as a field test (we are very far apart in age). Meanwhile, I'd like to witness these camps in action. I wonder if I can get a job with them and/or get a grant to observe them and interview the kids and counselors. This could take a couple years, but I'll let you all know if I can come up with something more nuanced than the above article.

43. 'Spiritual' dentist fined $10,000

Comment #180165 by Lucas on May 14, 2008 at 10:06 am

I had one of my most mystical experiences ever at the dentist's office one time. It involved a whole hell of a lot of nitrus oxide and a cheesy poster of a polar bear stapled to the ceiling. I became that polar bear, man. It was wild.

44. The Neural Buddhists

Comment #180150 by Lucas on May 14, 2008 at 9:24 am

David Brooks is almost always wrong. I do not respect him very much. And while there is much to argue with in this article, his most basic, general point strikes me as right on. He's got the details all jumbled up and clearly comes from a limited perspective, but I think there is indeed room for a type of 'mystical atheism.' Okay, so twenty of you just spat flames, I know. Your instincts are good, because if I heard that term from anyone other than myself or Sam Harris, I'd think it was New Age bullshit too. I'm quite familiar with Deepak Chopra and his ilk, and the various attempts to merge spirituality with pseudo-science. It's crap. BUT, what I mean is something else entirely, and while I'm not sure I mean anything close to what David Brooks means to say, he does seem to have picked up on something that may be related.

Now, exactly what do I mean by 'mystical atheism'? Well, it's hard to parse out; I've only been thinking about it for a few days. It does not in any way, even in a very loose New Age way, suggest the existence of the supernatural. Nor does it intend to suggest, as Brooks does, that changes in brain chemistry amount to anything other than physical processes. But the hardline atheism we tend to talk around here is unnecessarily strict and closed. The term has come to mean, at least to our detractors, something close minded and unwilling to recognize the mystery of the unknown and the human experience of the numinous. Of course, what we don't know could be anything, and I encourage imaginative ideas about what might be out there (or in there, or in-between there), but without lazily falling into superstition. There is indeed a numinous feeling attainable by humans, and this is most definitely attained by the proper coaxing of the brain, with mediation, LSD, or whatever. So what I hope to mean by 'mystical atheism' is a clear recognition of the falsehood of all religion and superstition merged with an acceptance of mystery and transcendental experience. I think. I would also add that from my understanding of mysticism, most mystics, openly or not, tend not to believe literally in whatever mythical structure they use for their mystical practices. The highest and most practiced Taoists, Kabbalists, and Sufis, know darn well there is no god or gods. That's the difference between mystics and priests (to put it very, perhaps overly, simply).

I'm just floating this out there for a test run to see what you all think.

45. Childish superstition: Einstein's letter makes view of religion relatively clear

Comment #179551 by Lucas on May 13, 2008 at 11:45 am

RD - Do you think you could buy this letter and have it scanned and posted here?


Colwyn - The two creation accounts were written by two different people, or groups of people, at different times. (This is why we need more education in the history of religion.) That's why you get no answer from theists; as far as they're concerned, God wrote it.

46. Atheists are nice people who will roast in hell, says Cardinal

Comment #177803 by Lucas on May 9, 2008 at 6:02 pm

So he'll just let us go to hell and not bother us until then? Awesome. That is a perfectly fair compromise. That should be our new slogan: We're going to hell anyway, just ignore us.

Don Quix - There is a beer volcano, so I'm told. And a stripper factory.

47. My Response to Rabbi Shmuley Boteach

Comment #177678 by Lucas on May 9, 2008 at 1:16 pm

John Galt - Exactly how much power God and Satan have has always been a logical problem for believers. If God is omnipotent, why is there suffering? Can't he just make it stop? Or is Satan the source of the suffering? Isn't God more powerful than Satan? This is only the tip of the iceberg. It gets worse. I do not encourage you to read much of the biblical exegesis on this point, as it is mind-numbingly stupid, but it's out there, and if you wish, go for it.

I would, however, take a look at the Gnostic Gospels, in particular the Gospel of John (I think, its been awhile). You'll find that in 1st century Egypt many Christians believed in a complex pantheon of various gods, angels, demons, powers, and principalities. If I remember correctly, God created Satan - and some others, Sophia (Wisdom), at least - and then Satan created the earth. So, yeah.

48. My Response to Rabbi Shmuley Boteach

Comment #177669 by Lucas on May 9, 2008 at 1:03 pm

fides - Yeah, you make good points. But there is something very annoying about people who paint a giant target on their back, always face that target towards everyone, outline it in highlighter, and then get pissed when someone offends them. "Never tell anyone your weaknesses. They will use them against you," said some famous badass who I can't remember. I mean, I've got soft spots, but I'm not about to announce them, much less constantly remind everyone of them. It's deliberate victimhood.

Let's look at three examples. African Americans don't like the "N" word, rightly so. They are offended if someone who is not black uses it in their presence, rightly so. I'm white, and I'M offended if I ever hear that. How many people use the "N" word to the faces of black folks? Very, very few. Why? Well, we could say because racism is gone, or we could be honest and say they would get their asses kicked, by the black person and everyone around them. Freedom of speech; freedom of come uppance; all good. Jews don't like Hitler, rightly so. They are offended if someone mentions him in their presence, rightly so. How many people bring up Hitler with the Jews? A few. Why? Because, while they will probably not get their asses kicked, they will be shunned and ostracized by anyone who hears of it. Muslims don't like cartoon of Muhammed. Rightly so? They kill people when they draw cartoons of Muhammed. Rightly so? Almost no one draws cartoons of Muhammed and mails them directly to Muslim extremists. Why? They may very well blow up your hometown or hunt you down and kill you. Do you see my point? There are different levels of offense, with different levels of righteousness, and different levels of response. Shall we then curb our speech based on how much violence we may get in retaliation? Well, I suppose, but that's not a precedent I'd want to set. If you use the "N" word, you're an idiot, a racist, and a asshole. If you mention Hitler to Jews, you're just an asshole. If you draw Muhammed, you're... a cartoonist?

"If consequences dictate your course of action, I should play God and just shoot you myself." - Tool

49. My Response to Rabbi Shmuley Boteach

Comment #177555 by Lucas on May 9, 2008 at 9:43 am

Ian - I agree with your points, good of you to make them, but like screeching, bad punctuation and grammar doesn't help one's argument much. Take more care. You actually forgot a verb here and there, and ended questions with periods.

Almost all 120 posts so far were agreeable, so I won't say anything specific to any one of them. I will say that I am unimpressed with anyone using Hitler as a rhetorical tactic, and am disappointed in Richard. But his point was solid. It was an astute comment, and I know it was purposefully provocative, but I think the tactic is below him; I do not agree with some here who suggest it is okay to lower ourselves to the level of debate of our ignorant opponents. Yes, they throw the Hitler crap at us all the time, but we cannot criticize them for it and then do it. I know it feels good to sling the crap back, but we lose out. That said, fuck the hypersensitivity of Jews to the mention of the name Hitler, for so many reasons. 1) He killed more than just Jews, so they should really stop laying exclusive claim to the horrors of the Holocaust, 2) Many, many other genocidal acts have occurred, before and since, including the extermination of Palestinians by Israeli settlers, 3) This sympathy card has been played far too many times, and we should no longer tolerate it. I don't want to be so callous as to say, "Get over it!" I have spoken personally to survivors of the Holocaust. I would not insult or disrespect them in any way, for any reason. But I am fucking sick and tired of Israelis, rabbis, and other pieces of shit pulling out the Holocaust as their get-out-of-anything card. They disgrace the survivors, the dead, and their memory by doing so.

All that aside, I'm all for using whatever weapons we have against the believers. If Jews don't like to be reminded of Hitler, I want to paint little mustaches on every Palestinian child they kill. If Muslims don't like cartoons of their prophet, I want a feature length fully animated movie of his life.If Christians are afraid of satan, I want pentagrams on every surface.

Okay, I just had a vision of a 20-foot animatronic Muhammed with a Hitler mustache and a pentagram carved into its forehead. With glowing red eyes. Heh. Equal opportunity offense.

50. Museums teach society lacking in science literacy

Comment #174109 by Lucas on May 1, 2008 at 4:36 pm

EDIT