1. Happy Birthday, Richard Dawkins!

Comment #151503 by Veronique on March 28, 2008 at 9:49 pm

Happy birthday to you Richard. I hope you had a terrific celebratory day on the 26th.

Wish I could be in Inverness on April 2nd. I will miss out by a couple of weeks before leaving Australia. Never mind - another time:-)

Happy birthday
Veronique

2. A match made on RichardDawkins.net?

Comment #128342 by Veronique on February 16, 2008 at 7:00 pm

Thank you all for being supportive:-).

A bit of a rough road ahead, but we are both strong people and know what we want to do with our lives.

So thank you, you make us glad that we posted this article on the site. And thanks to Josh for putting it up.

We'll be back:-)

Cheers
V

3. US military accused of harboring fundamentalism

Comment #127615 by Veronique on February 15, 2008 at 1:13 pm

Hi Quetz

The rain has been washing the slogans off:-(. Love the rain though:-)

How about this: Insight, untested and unsupported, is an insufficient guarantee of truth. Bertie Russell.

Cheers
V

4. US military accused of harboring fundamentalism

Comment #127584 by Veronique on February 15, 2008 at 12:50 pm

My personal practice is to check on posters' locations prior to making a comment and making assumptions and then basing spurious arguments on those assumptions.

So, yes Hourglass, I was aware that you were resident in Portugal.

Cheers
V

5. Heath Ledger Death: Baptist Group To Protest At Memorial

Comment #115870 by Veronique on January 25, 2008 at 12:55 am

159. Comment #115864 by eno

You don't need to be precious on these threads. It's all OK. Cool your collar. It's all right:-)

Cheers
Vxx

6. Heath Ledger Death: Baptist Group To Protest At Memorial

Comment #115797 by Veronique on January 24, 2008 at 8:04 pm

upsidedown and Richard M please have pity on an old woman's stomach muscles (I was going to write diaphragm, but that would be giving you too much rope:-)).

Very entertaining thread. Thank you Alex, I am warming to you:-). I needed a lift today, I am distressed about the length of time we have left on this poor planet.

Cartomancer, great post. Loved it.
So thank you all
Vxx

7. The devilish church practice of exorcism

Comment #114832 by Veronique on January 23, 2008 at 1:19 am

41. Comment #114827 by scottishgeologist

Stop getting hot under the collar, SG, and making typos that you never normally make:-)

Calm down, have a cup of tea (or a wine, as I am wont to do:-), write a strongly worded letter to the Times:-). Thanks Brigstocke!!

Are you actually in Scotland?? my dear geologist? If you are I would love to meet you in August.

Let's take on the Flea! What do you say? Good fun or what?

My best
V

8. Ken Ham in Leicester April 2008

Comment #114828 by Veronique on January 23, 2008 at 1:11 am

28. Comment #114824 by AllanW

Got a friend in the legal profession? Ensure that on public disclosure you can't be sued. It should be easy to find out. But Ken Ham (disgusting export from my country) is cluey.

Hey, I am with you, just check out the legals:-)
V

9. Ken Ham in Leicester April 2008

Comment #114825 by Veronique on January 23, 2008 at 1:06 am

25. Comment #114820 by YssiBoo

Use this without the spaces:

< blockquote > text you want to copy < /blockquote >

It works, cheers
V

10. Ken Ham in Leicester April 2008

Comment #114818 by Veronique on January 23, 2008 at 12:43 am

15. Comment #114735 by Deepthought

And inoculate him against the ever-mutating viruses that threaten his health with their dark materials:-)

Haha
V

11. The devilish church practice of exorcism

Comment #114815 by Veronique on January 23, 2008 at 12:06 am

34. Comment #114604 by Paula Kirby

Hahahaha. I suspect they are all very busy with serious and portentous stuff:-). It must be difficult for them to post here when there is so much good work that they have to undertake on a immediate basis:-)

V

12. The devilish church practice of exorcism

Comment #114814 by Veronique on January 23, 2008 at 12:03 am

babrock

Hit the little x at the top right hand side of your inadvertent posts to remove them.

Good luck - edit you have to be logged in to perform this.
V:-)

13. 'Letter to a Christian Nation' now available in paperback

Comment #111488 by Veronique on January 14, 2008 at 7:21 pm

47. Comment #111482 by babrock

Compose your post in Word or another text editor and copy and paste into the comment box. Then it doesn't matter if you are timed out.

I suspect that was the problem:-)
V

14. 'Letter to a Christian Nation' now available in paperback

Comment #111446 by Veronique on January 14, 2008 at 4:08 pm

30. Comment #111305 by Paula Kirby

A must read. The dumbest 100 things ever posted on Christian chat sites. I like the one saying Atheist are just another sect of Muslims - al-rawandi

To say the Bible was written by men and may contain inaccuracies completely contradicts the word of the Bible.

But think about it, who is smart enough to write the Holy Bible? The answer, no one.

Jesus is not a Jew. Jesus was Jewish.

15. Two Ex-Jehovah Witnesses to Tell Why They Became Atheists

Comment #111088 by Veronique on January 13, 2008 at 2:11 pm

73. Comment #110847 by Richard Morgan

Hahahahaha. You haven't lost your touch:-). You crack me up.

Cheers
V

16. Submission, 'Part 1'

Comment #110836 by Veronique on January 12, 2008 at 10:30 pm

I read Infidel. I t seems that like all other religions, Islam has a way of bending itself to any society's particular cultural imperative. Hirsi Ali describes the Muslims she met in The Netherlands coming from different cultures and countries.

She was shocked that other cultural Muslims weren't anything like the Somalis and the way Somalis practised Islam.

I would like to know from all the comments I have read over the months on this site, where the ex-Muslims who DO comment actually come from. I would also like to know where the negative Islam commenters come from and where they learned about Islam.

I suspect that there is an absolutely stupid Islam bashing and counter bashing going on in these threads. Come clean, all of you. From where did you get your knowledge and/or indoctrination of Islam????????

Let's pull this one down to the wire and start comparing apples with apples, instead of invective.

I have been on these threads since Dec.2006. I think it's time to get some sense about this. I am becoming somewhat tired of the teasers thrown out and those teasers being picked up and some sort of quasi BS pretend exchange that masquerades as well leavened argument.

Come on you guys
V

17. Two Ex-Jehovah Witnesses to Tell Why They Became Atheists

Comment #110825 by Veronique on January 12, 2008 at 8:44 pm

I, too, had no idea how many ex-JWs there were on this site.

My heart goes out to all of you.

Reading your stories of de-conversion makes me realise how easy my life has been; no de-conversion from any 'faith' was ever necessary for my family or me, because there was never any indoctrination to start with.

44. Comment #110271 by 82abhilash

I watched the video from your link – thank you for posting it. It may be old, but it certainly filled in a lot of gaps in my understanding of JW dogma. Some of those stories were harrowing in the extreme. The deception and control meted out by the big wigs was quite disgusting. The interesting thing about these newer cults is that they believe the second coming is going to happen in America! WTF? Why America. Why not with old goat herders where it all started? BTW, I am going to Jerusalem to see this city that is the seat of all the monotheisms.

One thing caught me however. We will have no way of knowing, but it seemed to me that a number of the de-converted only de-converted from JWism. It sounded to me like they had transferred over to this 'personal relationship with jesus' idea that to me smacks of evangelistic or charismatic doctrine. Did you see it that way?

49. Comment #110314 by PJG

I notice this as well. They are reorganising their attacks:-).

A little way back on the threads, I suddenly became aware that the reason non-atheists don't argue that atheists can behave well, morally, whatever, is because the non-atheists believe that god inculcated moral precepts at the time he issued the soul to the budding life.

This argument is an impossible one. But it is so frustrating. This is the 'god moves in mysterious ways' argument. It makes me want to scream.

61. Comment #110677 by thankgodforatheists

Try using < blockquote > and the same / for closing the html tag. Without the spaces I have put here.

Cheers:-).
V

18. It was a bad year for God.

Comment #109421 by Veronique on January 9, 2008 at 3:17 am

131. Comment #109418 by Roland_F

Good luck. I refuse to debate religites. But you are welcome to do your best:-)

My best to you
V

19. It was a bad year for God.

Comment #109414 by Veronique on January 9, 2008 at 3:06 am

126. Comment #109410 by robotaholic

Sweetheart, this site is testament enough. Don't fret, I like your sentiment. Don't worry about us and don't worry about RD. He's only 65. Many years to go yet.

It's all good, despite the religites that find their way to these comment threads. They get their comeuppance, but they are stubborn. We, on the other hand, are fairly open to argument. The religites don't cut the mustard.

Please don't fret.
Vxx

20. It was a bad year for God.

Comment #109346 by Veronique on January 8, 2008 at 10:17 pm

The good doctor is an insomniac with touch-typing skills. His husband is asleep.

21. It was a bad year for God.

Comment #109241 by Veronique on January 8, 2008 at 4:18 pm

Julia Sweeney is a stand-up comedienne. If one is incapable of recognising her over the top comedic style, then pity is all I can feel.

To use a comedian as an example of "worship" is disingenuous to say the least.

I agree with you Steve, Dawkins and Sagan have been heroes of mine for decades. Their works have added to the knowledge I have gained about cosmology, evolution and just plain common sense.

Cheers
V

22. It was a bad year for God.

Comment #109236 by Veronique on January 8, 2008 at 4:03 pm

24. Comment #109212 by rthille

I have three TGDs and I lend them out to people. I think if you have copies of all the four horsemen's books, you can't go wrong. I would add Grayling's little polemical essays as well.

It's more de-conversion. By calling it conversion, you just play right in the hands of people like Krisking. Take care with your wording.

Cheers
V

23. Six Reasons to be an Atheist

Comment #108139 by Veronique on January 6, 2008 at 5:13 am

I suspect that the division of the human population into atheist and non-atheist should squash all argument.:-) Not to mention the other atheistic species.

We might not have the (human) numbers but we have reason and the rest of the species. In fact we far outnumber the theists:-) Hahaha. And that is important in living proper moral and theist free lives.

Long may we (all) live!!
V

24. The OUT Campaign has its own Flea!

Comment #108132 by Veronique on January 6, 2008 at 4:56 am

Don't get too hot under the collar, you lot:-) Having read through a lot of threads over the past couple of months without commenting much at all, I think it safe to say that Krisking is not up there in the research stakes. He is riding you all the way:-)

He has said he came here to learn, question and evaluate. After reading his posts, I would query his stated objective. But that's just me:-)

Beware PlagioClase and do not feed the troll. Play with Krisking but do not take him seriously:-) He plays this game well but is now slipping a bit.

Hahahaha
V

25. Sadly, an Honest Creationist

Comment #106845 by Veronique on January 3, 2008 at 3:08 pm

I suspect that PlagioClase and RedneckfromIdaho will be on post wonders. These posts are their first on this site.

You have chased them away:-) Goody, goody.

As you were
V
edit I only just realised this article was from May 2006. It got resurrected by someone. PlagioClase won't be and Redneck didn't:-)

26. The OUT Campaign has its own Flea!

Comment #106426 by Veronique on January 2, 2008 at 10:48 pm

36. Comment #106414 by righton

Try hitting the Reason button on the top menu and scroll down to Debate Points. Click and you will find discussions on love, proof of love and proof of God. It's about halfway down the page.

This may give you a selection of responses that you will be able to tailor to answer your questioners depending on exactly how they phrase their question.

Cheers
V

27. What have you changed your mind about? Why?

Comment #105839 by Veronique on January 2, 2008 at 12:00 am

102. Comment #105812 by EvolvedDNA

Hahaha. We are in La Nina now, lots of overcast days, temperature drops to manageable levels and I am enjoying this summer (qualification - so far!!)

The fish are happy with their renewed water habitat. I am happy because my veges are growing quickly as they are meant to do. And I can justify spending this water logged time in front of my computer. Hahaha:-)

Cheers
V

28. What have you changed your mind about? Why?

Comment #105836 by Veronique on January 1, 2008 at 11:46 pm

104. Comment #105824 by roach

I thought you might:-)

Worth several listenings, I think.

My best
V

29. What have you changed your mind about? Why?

Comment #105765 by Veronique on January 1, 2008 at 7:31 pm

roach

You may find a Point of Inquiry interview with Carol Tavris interesting. I listened to it this morning.

It's here: http://www.pointofinquiry.org/?p=121

The Schuermannator

We Aussies are renowned for our capacity to imbibe liquor. Any excuse will do. So NY is perfect:-).

sent2null

Agreed:-).

Best for the NY everyone
V

30. Mother Nature is Not Our Friend

Comment #105756 by Veronique on January 1, 2008 at 7:08 pm

2. Comment #105745 by Diacanu

*Lazily skims*

31. Archbishop of Canterbury Praises Richard Dawkins

Comment #104703 by Veronique on December 29, 2007 at 7:08 am

Faint and ambiguous praise from the ArchBish. Culled for his own purposes. Nothing whatsoever to do with RD.

Lifted out of context and applied to the ArchBish's own reasons.

Please, RD, be careful.
V

32. Happy Newton Day!

Comment #104077 by Veronique on December 27, 2007 at 8:06 pm

Thank you so far, you guys. This is an extremely enjoyable comment thread:-)

I have just used up several of my hours reading from scratch. I think I like reading long interesting threads in one fell swoop.

Steve I like your description of the dynamics on threads like these. I could see it happening. Ah, the joys of distance:-) Of course, we have seen it before in other threads, but this one is fine. I will continue to enjoy it.

Thanks
V

33. How to refute Creationist with only a bucket of feces

Comment #103812 by Veronique on December 26, 2007 at 11:53 pm

Ah, righton, I see you have had your question answered on another thread.

This is good.
V

34. How to refute Creationist with only a bucket of feces

Comment #103807 by Veronique on December 26, 2007 at 11:23 pm

6. Comment #103804 by righton

I can't answer your question, but we have several molecular biologists and biochemists contributing to this site and some may take up your query.

On the other hand, RD does read the comment threads and may come across your question and answer it himself.

The other thing you can do is use the contact tab on the front page and email RD with your query. This seems a more direct approach to me. I, for one, would like to know the answer. I suspect that editing may have something to do with what you are positing.

Cheers
V

35. Chasers war on everything: Evangelicals

Comment #102978 by Veronique on December 24, 2007 at 5:15 am

31. Comment #102974 by irate_atheist

I have thoroughly enjoyed all your comments!! and this one is no different!!

I keep my (non-spare) wind tunnel out the back after the cat cage. I am prepared to accomomdate all tests to reduce 'faith' to the whistle that it actually is. You are more than welcome to utilise this special wind tunnel that I built to work out how sky divers were able to 'fly' through the air. It works!!
V

36. Chasers war on everything: Evangelicals

Comment #102972 by Veronique on December 24, 2007 at 4:59 am

Steve – think about how these metal tubes actually maintain their height and velocity. I would have more trouble crossing a busy metal-dominated moving set of vehicles on a grounded set of macadam roads. And I know that the actual statistics would back me up. So there!! My fearful friend.

I think the problem with this fear of getting into a flying machine has to do with the potential prospect of ALL passengers plunging to their deaths should something go wrong. It happens in one fell swoop, as it were. The road deaths happen over a different set of parameters.

Be that as it may, my dear, I will seek you out on the ground of England in June 2008. And I will have flown to you. So put that in your pipe and smoke it!!!! Are you prepared to meet me?? Won't it be wonderful?
V

37. Chasers war on everything: Evangelicals

Comment #102969 by Veronique on December 24, 2007 at 4:42 am

28. Comment #102966 by Steve Zara

Oh Steve, you lovely bloke:-). Tell Jon to contact me. I am about 800 miles north of Sydney. You can always PM me. I have to go to Sydney anyway to meet a bloke at NSW Uni who is committed to introducing Critical Thinking into the NSW public school curriculum. I can tie that visit in with your Jon's visit to Sydney.

That would be marvellous. In any case I would love to meet you when I travel north of the old equator to England next June. I will seek you out regardless!! Be warned!
V

38. Chasers war on everything: Evangelicals

Comment #102963 by Veronique on December 24, 2007 at 3:56 am

23. Comment #102957 by Philip1978

Did you scuba in Cairns?? What a great place. Did you know that Aussies consume just slightly less beer than the Germans? We're rough and tough, baby!!

I am glad you have been here. It is a great place. But I am coming to your neck of the woods next year. That will be interesting!!
V

39. Chasers war on everything: Evangelicals

Comment #102962 by Veronique on December 24, 2007 at 3:52 am

22. Comment #102955 by Steve Zara

'My partner' sounds so dislocated!! What's his name? Where is he coming to? Ask him to get in touch! I would be delighted to meet him if possible.

Food? Melbourne; an urbane and cultured city, if a little cliquey. A great place!! The people are much the same as what you know of me over the past year on this site. I like to think of myself as a pretty normal Aussie, just not religious. And there aren't that many religious types in this old penal colony (well, why would there be?). Hi to Henri!! Still there Henri?

We are a generous lot and take the mickey as soon as buy you a beer.

We are really lovely, promise.
V

40. Chasers war on everything: Evangelicals

Comment #102959 by Veronique on December 24, 2007 at 3:40 am

19. Comment #102921 by Flagellant

Now listen here, Flag. Don't get so carried away. I am pleased the redback didn't get you, but watch out for the Sydney Funnel Web. Are you going to Sydney – that waste land of an international city? These spiders are virulent. They kill unwary humans (and everything else they deem as potential food). Mind you they must sigh when they pull down a human – more food that the whole of the Funnel Web population could consume in a generation. Not good at logical thought the old Funnel Webs. Very reactive!!

Check out Article 116 of our Constitution – that states there IS separation of church and state, although that didn't stop Howard and Costello introducing religiously based legislation in their 11 years in office.

I can't recall the couple of errors in Bryson. I just laughed all the way through it. It was a terrific book about Australia. I loved 'the swim that needed no towel'. I think he got Holt's place of demise wrong. I am not sure now. And, in any case he was having the old Bryson dig. He does it well!!

The zeitgeist is changing. Religion is never going to have it easy again. Faith is no longer universally accepted as beyond criticism. The gentle mockery of Dave Allen is being replaced with a more robust indignation. Hooray!

41. Chasers war on everything: Evangelicals

Comment #102953 by Veronique on December 24, 2007 at 3:16 am

16. Comment #102701 by Steve Zara

Shit! You are right. I stepped outside my front door once and was accosted by spiders taking possession of the front porch. My God!! Then there was a blue tongued lizard wending his way across the pavers. I had put some toy plastic snakes around the fishes' habitat to deter Lord Heron and even those snakes frighten me.

My bedroom was full of scientific experiments that enjoined white-tailed house spiders making their home among the sheets.

I am terrified of swimming in Queensland and cast a wary eye over all large masses of sea-water. You are correct. It is deadly out there. And the wombats; you wouldn't believe the length, the strength and ripping capacity of their claws. Kangaroos by the millions and they damage your car. I am waiting for the insurance companies to render them into the Act of God clause.

I am the only person left in Australia and that's because I stay indoors!!

I am so glad you understand the travails of living in this benighted country. Whew. Someone who knows. I feel better.

And yes, I am exaggerating just a wee bit:-).

Best to you Steve
V

42. Chasers war on everything: Evangelicals

Comment #102700 by Veronique on December 23, 2007 at 12:25 pm

9. Comment #102467 by Verylee

articles@richarddawkins.net

All the contact addresses are in the contact tab on the front page.

V

43. Chasers war on everything: Evangelicals

Comment #102694 by Veronique on December 23, 2007 at 12:16 pm

8. Comment #102465 by Diacanu

Indeed you are!!!

Flagellant - good on you. And yes, Chaser got to within 100 yards of Bush's hotel before they were sprung at the APEC summit. Security was so severely embarrassed, hahaha, that four of the Chaser crew were charged. Haven't heard anything since though.

Epeeist - what about the rabbits? You forgot them. Millions and millions of them all from England. (well, sort of, a little time ago:-))

V

44. Chasers war on everything: Evangelicals

Comment #102462 by Veronique on December 23, 2007 at 12:06 am

They did a marvellous sketch on the Trojan Horse. That's worth a look. Hilarious. These guys are worth their weight in gold. Get them on a podcast.

I am telling you - you won't regret it. You will also learn about Australia and none of you know jack shit about us. Good value.

My best
V

45. Chasers war on everything: Evangelicals

Comment #102459 by Veronique on December 22, 2007 at 11:45 pm

I love Chaser so much!! They take the mickey every time, I am so glad that this motley crew are funded by our national broadcaster. The one thing Australia got right!!

Thank gravy for their irreverence. We may survive with these blokes in the chair.

Check out abc.net.au/tv/chaser/war and click on anything you like.

Have a terrific squidmas with Chaser.
V

46. Do the laws of God trump those of man?

Comment #102174 by Veronique on December 21, 2007 at 11:57 pm

160. Comment #102166 by wooter

I hope you just give a thought to what I write.

47. Interview with Richard Dawkins: On Christmas

Comment #101285 by Veronique on December 20, 2007 at 7:17 am

112. Comment #101183 by epeeist

Thank you for that. Couldn't get your second link to work, but I liked the first one. Thanks for understanding what I was saying about 'religious' music. You put it better than I did. The tears I have shed over beautiful music outnumber the tears I have shed over anything else (well I am old!) and I feel better for that.

I just love the boys' choirs of Kings and Oxford. Their voices make my hairs stand up om end. Just exquisite. BTW,the 15th Century was an excellent one for this!!! I agree with you.

My best for a very silly season
V

48. Interview with Richard Dawkins: On Christmas

Comment #101114 by Veronique on December 19, 2007 at 10:52 pm

There is a beautiful CD compiled of religiously inspired music called Panis Angelicus (one of the performed choir pieces). The CD is absolutely beautiful. I used to sing some of these in the University Choir. I also sang Beethoven's Ninth and Vaughan Williams' Lark Ascending. Then there are the Gregorian Chants; Monteverdi. I certainly didn't and don't now even consider the potentiality and possibility of religiosity in the lyrics of the music I sang and still sing. What about JS Bach – some of the most exquisite music made that was claimed by the religious because it was written under the financial largesse of the religiously political rich and famous of their times. Mozart's Concertos; Telemann: beautiful stuff.

This kind of music can bring tears to my eyes, a fast beating heart and shortness of breath and a feeling of indescribable beauty. All these symptoms that I notice in my reactions to some music, are the same symptoms that those having a 'religious' experience would probably also notice in their reactions.

That these symptoms are sensory and neurological in origin is a given. But you see where I am going with this.

One reason that I could never bring myself to enjoy singing 'carols' was that even the Wesleyan ones were, at best, 3rd if not 4th rate pieces and didn't resonate with me at all. Serious religious music, crafted by serious and talented composers, is able to transport the listener. Fine, that's my evaluation of music and what I like in my music. A lot of people think my taste in music is weird if not nuts and way-out there.

Right, there are my aesthetic reasons for not liking 'carols' and such like. For the rest I agree with NB, RM and the tentative Steve that singing such religiously and culturally popular and emotionally charged ditties at the time of that religion's choosing for a celebration of spiritual origins (whether hijacked or not) makes the internal consistency of a non-believer a little wobbly. Moreover NB is right to cite Haggard and the comments crowing at his political and (hopefully) religious demise. You could add Falwell (remember the intemperately expressed delight in his death?) in there as well.

Bonzai,

You (and RM) told us that you used to be a fundamentalist, I am afraid you have brought that mindset with you. I don't mean to be insulting but I find that many of the ultra-rigid atheists turn out to be former fundamentalists. On the other hand, those of us who have atheism as more or less our default mode (and moderate religionists such as Dawkins' Bishop friends) tend to be more flexible and see things in shades of grey. I think it is not accidental, there is something about that fundamentalist mindset that makes it easily fall for a binary view of the world, may be it is the appeal of simplistic consistency.

49. CBC News: Sunday - Richard Dawkins

Comment #100599 by Veronique on December 19, 2007 at 1:07 am

140. Comment #100444 by briancoughlanworldcitizen

Lauregon posted a comment on the McGrath/DeSouza debate at Kings regarding numinous experiences:

70. Comment #81453 by Lauregon on October 24, 2007 at 6:56 pm
As someone who once experienced a profound numinous experiences, I'll offer a comment in response to the young man who near the end of the debate asked Hitchens to comment about such a situation: 30 years after my numinous experience, I consider it to have been the result of brain chemicals. My experience sent me running back to church(es) where I searched passionately and diligently for years for the "God" I believed had chosen me for something very, very special. My advice today to those who might have such an experience: consider it an unexpected but delicious brain orgasm sourced in your own body chemistry---and move on. Leave "God" and church out of it.

50. God rest you merry atheist

Comment #100003 by Veronique on December 18, 2007 at 3:52 am

Can't stand the hackneyed, mawkish carols. I am incensed by the constant broadcasting of them over radio.

I love The Messiah and St Matthew's Passion. I love the sistine Chapel ceiling.

Can't I do this without invoking bloody religion? Cultural or otherwise? I don't have to appreciate the religiosity of these things, just their fine constructions.

I am with Morgan on this. I couldn't sing a carol for cultural reasons at all. Total BS.

Happy 'podmas
V