1. CFI-UN Hamid Karzai Letter

Comment #202602 by Christopher Davis on July 1, 2008 at 4:32 pm

Al,

Not only that, but they would have been absolutely wiped out by the Russians without U.S. led foreign support.

I just finished reading "Charlie Wilson's War" and according to Crile's account, the Mujahideen creditied their turn of fortune not to U.S. and Saudi dollars or to Pakistani logistics and support, but to Allah. Every missile, every rifle, every bullet, was a gift from god.

It's no wonder that these desert bumpkins think their shit don't stink. As for the Pashtuns being fierce warriors...I've yet to meet one that impresses me. In the shurras, the "elder's"---many of whom claim to have fought the Soviets---cry and whine about the Taliban coming into their villages and beating them up.

Now I realize that most of the guys are in their fifities, but where is that warrior spirit? Furthermore, where are their sons? If these rhuemy-eyed old men really are men of importance, they'll have sons (and grandsons) old enough to fight. What kind of warrior stands by and lets some "outsiders from Pakistan" kick the shit out of their fathers?

Unfortunately, these are questions we are not supposed to ask because we might offend these very important men. It boggles the mind.

2. CFI-UN Hamid Karzai Letter

Comment #202228 by Christopher Davis on July 1, 2008 at 4:38 am

hungarianelephant,

No. Opium is not much of a problem in Paktika Province. Although I think that there is a small trade in hashish.

I know I sometimes get a bit wound up and start condemning the entire country, but in reality my experience is limited to just Paktika.

Off the top of my head, I would recommend training up a few units of Afghan National Army and Afghan Border Patrol to focus strictly on counter-narcotics operations...but realistically, these guys are a long way from being able to specialize like that effectively.

3. CFI-UN Hamid Karzai Letter

Comment #202202 by Christopher Davis on July 1, 2008 at 3:18 am

Goldy,

Just in case you didn't want to read all of that to distill an answer...

I'm against us building schools. In this culture, madrassa=education. A step forward would be Afghans getting their "education" in Afghan madrassas. As the economy improves, hopefully education will follow.

The reason I say build roads whether they want them or not, is because they want them. Problem is, like you said, they are horribly corrupt. If someone is going to build a road, everyone wants a cut. If the right people aren't getting the kickback they think they deserve, the whole project goes to shit.

Answer, we build the roads. No Afghan makes a single cent off the project.

4. CFI-UN Hamid Karzai Letter

Comment #202197 by Christopher Davis on July 1, 2008 at 3:03 am

Styrer,

You asked if it is easy to get my ideas heard by the higher-ups...

Well, I'm working on putting this discombobulated rant into a positon paper regarding just the Province I work in, and trying to ram it up the chain.

I'll flesh it out, remove all references to "toothless savages", use specific examples, and try not to use the word "fuck", but I'm only a SGT. In all fairness though, I'm not the only one saying this (the medical plan is actually the idea of my COL).

Also, I don't know how many of these problems have already been identified and are being worked on at a higher level...the military is one slow moving beauracracy.

Either way, at least I'll feel like I did something besides drive a HUMVEE, stand guard tower, and drink tea with a bunch of useless old Afghans who have no qualms about lying to my face.

5. CFI-UN Hamid Karzai Letter

Comment #202192 by Christopher Davis on July 1, 2008 at 2:47 am

I don't want this to turn into a post of epic length enough to rival one of teretornis' peak oil rants, but it's hard to convey with words just how difficult it is to move around here in the southeastern portion of Afghanistan. Roads are the answer.

With roads we can improve security, establish industry, and legitimize the Provincial government. Also, the locals like roads. They use roads. They get upset when the Taliban blow the (good)roads up. Conversely, when the Taliban blows up a school, nobody gives a shit (as long as their kids weren't in it at the time).

Problem is, we can't wait for the Afghans to build the roads. They don't have the ability, and their tribal conflicts and amazing levels of corruption stymie any effort you leave in their hands.

My solution...we build the roads. They'll bitch. They'll whine. They'll get over it.

Building clinics is also a lost cause. There are no doctors and a lot of these villagers are suspicious of western medicine. We should just send locals to Kabul and have them trained as doctors, let them return to their villages and do housecalls. 19th century medical care would be a hundred-year-leap forward for these people.

Admittedly, a program like this would have its own unique set of hurdles to clear, but at least it would be a step towards progress.

The last thing I would do is stop trying to bribe these people with trinkets. The U.S. Army's guidelines regarding Humanitarian Assistance are clear as to when HA is authorized. When we drive into a village, that although poor by our standards is actually doing pretty good, and start handing out shoes, flour and toys, it may feel like we are doing a good deed, but we are foolish if we think that we are buying any friends.

In fact, the mindset of some commanders is that we will drive up with a trailer full of goodies, but the villagers only get them if they cooperate and tell us where the Taliban are hiding. We aren't actually doing this yet (thank goodness) but that some think it's a good idea it shows the complete lack of understanding of Pashtuns and their culture.

6. CFI-UN Hamid Karzai Letter

Comment #202176 by Christopher Davis on July 1, 2008 at 2:17 am

Well, since some of you asked...

The first thing I would do is stop building schools. While I agree that these people must be educated, we have to realize that throwing up a building does nothing to accomplish this.

I actually think that part of the problem is that some higher-ups in the decision making chain heard about "Three Cups of Tea" and only read the book-jacket. I read the book a couple of months ago and I admit that I was impressed by what Greg Mortenson was able to accomplish, his situation and the situation the U.S. Military faces in Paktika Province, Afghanistan are not remotely the same.

Mortenson's promise to those mountain villagers was inspired by the sight of a bunch of girls sitting outside, scratching their lessons in the dirt. There was a teacher, there was community support, there was a basic understanding of the value of education...the school already existed, they just needed a building. Mortenson honorably provided this.

Of course, before he could build the school building he had to build a bridge across a ravine in order to get the materials into the village.

We routinely commission schools in areas so remote that we spend 9-10 hrs. convoying out to the site just to check on it's progress. Everytime we put a school in an area that is not acessible by a major roadway we waste taxpayer dollars. The roads need to come first.

7. CFI-UN Hamid Karzai Letter

Comment #202053 by Christopher Davis on June 30, 2008 at 5:59 pm

We never liberated Afghanistan. All we did was remove the Taliban from power.

Afghanistan will never be liberated as long as Pashtuns are the majority and insist on ruling the country.

For the last 3 years or so the entire effort has been to rebuild Afghanistan---to develop an infrastructure, to improve crop yields, and to educate the children---and these toothless fucking savages have been resisting progress since day one.

I'll admit, I can't speak for the entire country, but in the southeastern portion (Pashtunistan) our current strategy is hopeless.

The idea is to put an "Afghan face" on everything we do. So when we hand out "Humanitarian Aid" (a misnomer, because there is no humanitarian crisis here) we have the Afghan National Security Forces hand it out.

Any schools, clinics, roads, or bridges that need to be built have to be built by an Afghan contractor. And since Pashtuns are the most ignorant, unskilled people on the planet, these contractors aren't local...which opens a whole new can of worms.

Anyway, the end-state is that the average person doesn't want our roads, our schools, our clinics, etc.---they just want to be left alone. They appreciate the wells, and they will take anything you give them (shoes, tools, soccer balls)to sell in the Bazaar in Pakistan. But most of them would just as soon the Coalition and the Taliban go away so they can eke a living out of the dirt in peace.

The only way we are going to help these backwardass fuckers is to build roads where we want them to go, whether the locals like it or not. To hell with hiring local contractors to do the work, they suck and they have to pay enormous kickbacks to the locals to get anything accomplished.

To hell with building schools. They are no qualified teachers, no motivated students, and no interested parents. While education is the ultimate answer, school buildings are not the proximate solution. The only reason the village "elders" like schools is because it provides contractor kickbacks for them and manual labor for the locals.

These people have no sense of national unity, and no real concern for anyone outside their immediate tribe. As long as the Pashtuns are in charge, Afghanistan will remain a primitive, backwardsass land.

8. Aliens need Christ's redemption, too

Comment #201639 by Christopher Davis on June 30, 2008 at 1:15 am

"He does not imagine, or does not care to imagine, that beings higher than man would be finer and nobler than man, in much the same way that men are capable of nobler sentiments than a dog..."---the article

I know dogs that sniff out bombs, apprehend criminals, rescue people from fires, floods etc.

My civilian job is making sure 500 sex offenders (all of them men) stay behind bars.

I think there is quite a bit of species-overlap in the nobility department.

Also, none of the dogs I know profess to be religious, most of the sex offenders do.

9. Evangelical grunts

Comment #201076 by Christopher Davis on June 29, 2008 at 12:31 am

I've got mixed feelings on this.

As an atheist soldier deployed in Afghanistan I can attest that evangelicism is alive and well in the U.S. Army. However, I'm open about my views and I make no concessions to religion. When we have ceremonies that involve group prayer I do not bow my head. So far, no one has given me any shit or tried to convert me.

The only thing that I have had to endure was my Sergeant Major telling me that he thought atheism was a "mental weakness". I didn't argue because sometimes it's better to pick your battles.

What bothers me about this article is this statement...

"Incidents such as these can be exploited by al-Qaida and other jihadists to argue, rather convincingly, that the United States is not in a war against terrorism but a war against Islam."

Less than two weeks ago, two of my team-members were killed in a rocket attack. Seven more were wounded...three seriously. From the radio traffic we intercepted it is clear that the people who killed my friends did so out of religious conviction.

Not only that, but press releases in the Muslim world continuously report on the attacks as "blows against the Christian invaders", they brag about how many "cross worshippers" and "apostates" (Afghan soldiers, police, etc.) they kill, and they beg for Allah's continued support.

Whether we like it or not, in the eyes of the people trying to kill us, we are at war with Islam.

While I wholeheartedly agree that the idea that people of influence in our military would actively attempt to mould "warriors for Jesus" is repugnant, it is plain stupid to try and pretend that religion plays no part in this conflict.

Osama Bin Laden has repeatedly told us why he hates us...our government's support for Isreal, our failure to denounce China, Russia, and India for their acts against Muslims, and our refusal to leave Muslim lands.

To us these reasons sound political, to Bin Laden and those who support him they are religious.

The simple fact is, soldiers who are forward deployed are expected to walk on eggshells to avoid offending the religious sensibilities of Muslims.

The commanders who are allowing their troops to be sold on this idea that we are fighting a war for Jesus should be court-martialed and drummed out of the military. However, we shouldn't be expected to kowtow and kiss the Muslim worlds ass everytime one of our soldiers does something stupid.

I've never heard a single apology from anyone of status in the Muslim world for the nearly 5000 servicemen and women who have died at the hands of the radicals of Islam.

10. Non-voters: It's all in God's hands

Comment #200981 by Christopher Davis on June 28, 2008 at 5:13 pm

Layla,

I'm an American, a soldier in fact (does my avatar show up?).

Anyway, you're right. My sugesstion wasn't nice. Problem is, when you get these people, be they Christian, Muslim or whatever, who honestly believe that everything is in God's hands, it's annoying.

I'm in Afghanistan, and this "Inshallah culture" they subscribe to gives them an excuse to be lazy and dodge responsibility.

Born-again Christians are almost as bad, but they generally still go to work and plan for the future. Their abdication of responsibilty ususally takes the form of "I used to be an alcoholic, wife-beating SOB, until Jesus saved me." Then they go on to tell you how people are powerless to change anything in their lives unless they give everything over to Jesus.

So yeah, I still think ripping up their ballots is a good idea...nice or not.

11. Non-voters: It's all in God's hands

Comment #200635 by Christopher Davis on June 28, 2008 at 2:24 am

I read a story yesterday that I believe was reposted from the NY Times that said the Muslim community was pissed at Obama. It seems that they feel he is trying to distance himself from all things Muslim. The article stated that he had spoken at all types of churches and synagogues, but no mosques. They were also pissed because he referred to claims that he is secretly a Muslim as a "smear".

My question is who can blame the guy? I remember reading another survey a while back (I think it was when Mitt Romney was still in the running) and the only person respondents said they would be less apt to support for the Presidency than a Muslim is an atheist.

As for Muslims voting...I say sure, let them vote. Take their ballot, look them in the eye, smile, rip the ballot in half and say "Inshallah!"
(You can do the same for any evangelical Christian, but you have to add "...and the creek don't rise.")

12. Spanish parliament to extend rights to apes

Comment #200048 by Christopher Davis on June 26, 2008 at 5:15 pm

Phil,

I agree.

Regression to the mean is a statistical phenomenon and does not in any way invalidate the idea that if two smarter than average people have children their children will be smater than average.

Most studies have shown IQ be highly heritable. So I think you are dead on when you speak of the mean increasing. However, I think it's important to emphasize that mean is only meaningful (sorry couldn't resist) as it applies to a group.

So if two parents with IQ's of 160 have a few kids, regression to the mean makes it more than probable that none of these children will be "smarter" than either of their parents. But it is also extremely unlikely that any of these children will be below the average IQ of the base population.

The opposite of this also applies. If two parents with IQ's of 80 have a few kids, it is very probable that at most of the children will have average IQ's (between 95-105), but the odds of them producing a genius (IQ 140 ) is significantly less than the odds of the first couple producing a genius.

That being said, I believe that intelligence is a quality that is extremely hard to quantify. Unfortunately, high IQ does correlate strongly with people's common assessment of smart, and for the most part "smart" people do better financially than their "less-smart" colleagues.

So if, there is a strong socioeconomic influence to IQ (and I believe there is), and if high IQ correlates with increased socioeconoic status (studies show it does), then a divergence of the mean IQ between the affluent and the non-affluent is not some far-fetched, elitest idea. It's actually what the data predicts.

13. Mormons urged to back ban on same-sex marriage

Comment #200026 by Christopher Davis on June 26, 2008 at 4:32 pm

esuther,

It's not all necessarily feminist bashing. I think that what most of the guys here are trying to point out (lightheartedly) is that the sexual double-standard cuts both ways.

Nobody really gives a shit about a door.

However, I did once have a young woman adamantly refuse to let me hold the door open for her as she entered a Books-a-Million in Tuscaloosa, Alabama. I was leaving and there was an older couple coming in, I held the door for them and since she was a few steps behind them I continued to hold the door for her. She stopped dead in her tracks, folded her arms, and began tapping her foot. I grinned and continued to hold the door...stalemate. She finally said, "I don't need you to hold the door for me!" I told her I didn't need to hold the door for her, I simply wanted to.

Don't remember exactly how it progressed after that, but we ended up having coffee and going out to dinner a few times.

Personally, I think today's feminist movement harms women more than it helps them. The issues modern feminists chose to focus on are often trivial by international standards, and many of the arguments are outdated (equality in education), disingenuous (that 70 cents on the dollar thing) and/or untrue (men hold all the power in a relationship).

I support equality for women, but the "feminists" today need to change their talking points.

14. Spanish parliament to extend rights to apes

Comment #199991 by Christopher Davis on June 26, 2008 at 3:23 pm

"Keeping apes for circuses, television commercials or filming will also be forbidden and breaking the new laws will become an offence under Spain's penal code."---article

I'm not so sure I support this. I mean, that orang in all those old Clint Eastwood movies seemed pretty happy to me.

I see nothing wrong with an ape being owned by people, as long as that ape is not mistreated. And as far as experiments go...does this mean there will be a ban on research into ape intelligence and language?

15. Breaking the Silence

Comment #194427 by Christopher Davis on June 16, 2008 at 7:10 pm

"My only thought is, will we need to open a "protect Wafa Sultan fund" soon?"---Tenochtitlan

Probably. As Sultan alluded, Muslim culture's treatment of women as property seems to cultivate a "wife-beater" mentality among it's "men". That's why people like Sultan have to go into hiding.

What would be nice is if instead of donating money to help keep Sultan from getting shot in the back, we could just donate time. For example...

A bunch of us could get the word out that anybody who doesn't like what Wafa Sultan has to say, just show up at such-and-such place at such-and-such time and we'll (those of us who voluteer to do Sultan's fighting) have a good old fashioned fist-fight about it. If the extremeists win, Sultan will have to shut-up, if we win, then the misogynist fuckers just have to take their ass-whippin' and their Korans and go home and pout.
Anyone with me?

Of course this would require these "men" to actually have enough sack to take someone on face-to-face...someone who can fight back.

16. Breaking the Silence

Comment #193489 by Christopher Davis on June 15, 2008 at 5:24 pm

mordacious1,

You are right about how it seems that only the women have the courage to speak out against the barbarism that is mainstream Islamic culture.

It is a damn shame that for a culture that makes such a big deal about a man's "honor", virtually none of the males have any.

This woman speaks her mind and these fuckers issue death threats via telephone and e-mail. What a bunch of "men" they are.

It would be more honorable if they stopped kissing the Koran (and the radical cleric's asses) and actually learned how to read.

17. A word for nonbelievers

Comment #189765 by Christopher Davis on June 7, 2008 at 8:02 am

"But we still feel we're the last minority group it's OK to say bad things about."---article

Sorry, not quite. In addition to homosexuals (already mentioned by a few posters) there are fat people, short people, ugly people, and poor white people from the U.S. south.

As for the concerns that some people have expressed that "uniting" or seeking out other "like-minded" individuals is church-like, lighten-up.

I've never belonged to any atheist or free-thinkers group, but when I get home I'm definitely going to seek one out. Why? Because "Hi. My name is Chris and I'm an atheist." isn't the best pick-up line in the world. I'd just as soon not waste anymore time and/or money trying to figure out if the nice young girl I just met is going to freak out when she finds out I don't believe in God.

18. Stupid flies live longer: study

Comment #189239 by Christopher Davis on June 5, 2008 at 10:19 pm

SamKiddoGordon,

I'm waiting on my Geena Davis.

19. A moral test for true believers, Rudd style

Comment #189234 by Christopher Davis on June 5, 2008 at 10:12 pm

I'm an American, and on this topic we probably deserve the kicking.

However, I will say that it isn't so much the fact that religious types object to tax-dollars being used for abortions that irks me, it's the fact that these bans almost always include sanctions against using tax money for contraceptives as well.

What kind of sick, sadistic, SOB really thinks that it's "God's will" to overrun the globe with starving, bloated-bellied babies?

20. Darwin still causing waves after 150 years

Comment #189232 by Christopher Davis on June 5, 2008 at 10:02 pm

I've seen a coloring book on evolution for sale in Barnes & Noble. That's probably a good place for your average 'fundie' to start.

21. The Expelled Evolutionist

Comment #189204 by Christopher Davis on June 5, 2008 at 7:32 pm

"I suspect he wanted to type: "mañana"---Quine

As in "tomorrow". Yeah. I feel really dumb now.

I need to get back to civilization.

22. The Expelled Evolutionist

Comment #189196 by Christopher Davis on June 5, 2008 at 6:56 pm

"I don't find your position that unreasonable, though it is usually considered "agnostic" rather than theistic. So am I correct in assuming that you are actually an agnostic with some cultural attachment to Christianity?"---Bonzai

Good point Bonzai. I think too often many of us on this board pile-on the non-atheists asking them to prove the drivel that their religion expouses, without stopping to ask them what role their religion plays in their life.

This is especially pertinent when dealing with people such as Pathfinder who seem to be educated/intelligent and don't reject science.

Personally, I'm not a fan of NOMA. However, at this point in time it might be a position that serves a useful purpose. Over 85% of Americans feel the need to affiliate themselves with some type of religion. We won't be able to keep the real crack-pots out of the schools and the government if we don't find some common ground.

Oh, and Pathfinder...."Manana"? As in Pashto for "thank you"?

23. Character Attacks: How to Properly Apply the Ad Hominem

Comment #187942 by Christopher Davis on June 3, 2008 at 4:27 am

"But I don't see how the Swaggart argument is relevant. That's like the fat doctor. Just because he didn't live up to his own ideals of fidelity does not mean that those ideals aren't worth striving for. Sure you can attack him based on his transgressions, but you can't attack his message or argument."---Aidan86

Not exactly. The doctor may not care about being fat. Jimmy Swaggert, on the other hand, made a career out of declaring his devotion to his theology. As for whether or not the "ideals" expressed by Jimmy Swaggert are worth striving for... that is a matter of opinion.

24. Character Attacks: How to Properly Apply the Ad Hominem

Comment #187902 by Christopher Davis on June 3, 2008 at 2:20 am

I give this article an "A" for effort by a "C-" for execution.

While by definition an ad hominem attack is a logical fallacy, not every personal critique qualifies as an ad hominem attack. The problem is telling the difference between a legitimate and relevant character flaw and a cheap-shot that has no bearing on the topic under discussion.

As many of you have commented, I don't think the author's examples help clarify the matter. If a fat doctor gives me advice regarding weight-loss, the relevant issue is not that the doctor is fat...it is that he/she is a doctor. I know lots of people with attractive physiques who are ignorant when it comes to good nutrition and exercise principles.

As far as my lawn goes...if I have a neighbor who is constantly working on his lawn and it looks good, then I will be inclined to take his advice. If his lawn looks like shit, I won't. Whether this person is a ninth-grade dropout who only reads the Bible or the head groundskeeper at Augusta National is irrelevant.

Evaluation of an ad hominem attack boils down to ascertaining its relevancy.

25. Teacher tortures, kills boy

Comment #186954 by Christopher Davis on June 1, 2008 at 12:49 am

"Not too long ago there were reported a few incidents of children being tortured to death while the dedicated believers tried to cast out the demons."---blasphemer

I missed those reports, but I'll buy that analogy.

When I made my post I considered, but dismissed the deaths of children caused by their parents withholding of medical care due to religious beliefs. I reasoned that even though such actions are just as unexcusable, the parents in those cases didn't engage in active violence against their children.

However, literally trying to beat the hell out of child...yeah, that ranks right up there with the most retarded aspects of Islam.

26. Teacher tortures, kills boy

Comment #186922 by Christopher Davis on May 31, 2008 at 8:07 pm

"Pakistan's 13 000 registered madrassas offer free schooling and board to hundreds of thousands of poor children in this devout nation, but some have also been linked to Islamic extremism."---article

SOME have been linked to Islamic extremism??? That has got to be the understatement of the year.

While I agree with the point that epeeist and others have made---that it's unfair to condemn all Islam based on this one incident---I'm not willing to give the "religion of peace" a pass on this one (not that I'm saying anyone else has suggested we do).

It's great that this "teacher" is going to be prosecuted, but I doubt this will do anything to curb the use of corporal punishment in Pakistan's madrassas.

Anyone who has watched "Jesus Camp" knows that Muslims don't hold a monopoly of the systematic abuse of their children in the name of religion, but I've yet to read about anything similar to this incident in any western country.

However, maybe some good will come out of this. If it opens dialogue and more people become aware of what actually goes on in Pakistan's madrassas, then maybe people will realize that claiming these hell-holes are places of education is a sick joke.

Pakistan is not an ally to the western world, and the form of Islam practiced by most of its citizens deserves to be labeled barbaric.

EDIT: "to this incident" added to the 4th paragraph for clarity.

27. We happy hooligans

Comment #185890 by Christopher Davis on May 29, 2008 at 1:19 am

Clever Dr. Benway. Very clever.

28. Town moves against Islamic school

Comment #185615 by Christopher Davis on May 28, 2008 at 7:35 am

Frankus1122,

No. I totally agree.

The comment you quoted was meant to highlight the irony present when some people rail against racism in an attempt to show how open-minded they are.

My favorite example of this is when I tell someone that I am in favor of increased security on the U.S./Mexico border and they tell me "Mexicans are hard working people just trying to make a better life for their children!" In reply I simply ask, "All of them?" This usually gets me called a racist.

Like you said, it's a fine line, but gross generalizations about any group, whether good or bad, are dehumanizing.

29. Town moves against Islamic school

Comment #185570 by Christopher Davis on May 28, 2008 at 5:04 am

Hunter, Fanusi and hungarianelephant,

Excellent posts. I would only add that to me it seems a bit patronizing for whites to constantly defend minorities (and by this I mean people with skin generally darker than theirs) from criticism by accusing their attackers of racism.

Most of the time, in their rush to take up the cause of the underdog, they end up treating the very group they are defending as one homogenous unit. They forget that the greatest evil of racism is that it fails to recognize people as individuals.

30. Louisiana's latest creationism bill moves to House floor

Comment #185561 by Christopher Davis on May 28, 2008 at 4:31 am

aquilacane,

They'll teach faulty arguments against evolution. That's all they ever do. In their minds, if they can disprove evolution the Judeo/Christian creation fable wins by default.

31. Town moves against Islamic school

Comment #185474 by Christopher Davis on May 27, 2008 at 10:13 pm

Goldy,

You are spot on in your description of how teachers are intimidated by the Taliban here in Afghanistan, but as I said before, it's more complicated than that.

The area I work in has 4% literacy among males and 0% literacy among women. Not a lot of teacher candidates here. Furthermore, they are tribal to a ridiculous degree. So even if people wanted to immigrate in to take a teaching job they would have more than just the Taliban to worry about.

Of course you are right, Muslims are people and I've met some damn fine ones here. Just about a month ago one of the locals and his three sons fought off a band of 20 (his report, I doubt it was that many, probably 5-6, nevertheless)armed men who were trying to burn down the newly constructed school and clinic. And that's what makes this so damn infuriating.

Nearly every able-bodied man in this Province has access to an AK-47. They outnumber the Taliban. They don't have to cave in. The problem is, for most of them formal education is a foreign concept, so they don't think it's worth fighting for.

I realize I have digressed again, but I have just accepted that you and I aren't going to see eye to eye on the meat of this debate.

32. Town moves against Islamic school

Comment #185430 by Christopher Davis on May 27, 2008 at 7:17 pm

Slow down Goldy, I'm not rying to piss you off (the increase in typos leads me to believe you are irritated).

This is simple logic...if you understand that Muslims don't constitute a race (as I believe you do) then you should understand that even outright hatred of Muslims can't constitute racism.

I've conceded that the citizens of Camden might be racist. I've apologized for digressing into a diatribe about Afghan schools. But I refuse to let you off the hook for making false equivocations.

It is not encumbent on me or anyone else to propose a Chinese (or any other type) school in the area and see how the citizens react. You are the one claiming racism, so you need to show that a school for 1500 white Muslims would not be met with the same amount of resistance.

33. That's it. Texas really is doomed.

Comment #185419 by Christopher Davis on May 27, 2008 at 7:03 pm

Tertornis,

I know, I know. Peak oil. Don't drive. Etc. Etc.

Cut me some slack will you? I don't drive everytime I go from Arizona to Alabama and back, and when I do I drive a 4cyl Honda Accord.

Plus, if we did get rid of Texas (just butt New Mexico right up against Louisiana) think of how much oil U.S. trucking companies could save.

34. Town moves against Islamic school

Comment #185406 by Christopher Davis on May 27, 2008 at 6:21 pm

Goldy,

It's obvious I'm not making myself clear.

I made my comments about schools here in Afghanistan because the topic of the original article dealt with schools.

Granted, I don't know a lot about what goes on in China, so I won't claim that Afghan attitudes toward education represent a "preserve" of Muslim culture. But, if apathy toward progress was an Olmypic sport these bastards would take the Gold, Silver and Bronze medal everytime.

However, Islamic education is not the topic I'm trying to debate here, so I apologize for digressing.

You contend that the people of Camden are racists because they don't want a 1500 student Islamic school in their town. Your proof? Most of the Muslims here are Arabic looking. That's fucking weak and you know it.

Now I know even less about Camden than I do about China, and as one of the other posters said here (I'm paraphrasing) you don't have to step in it to smell it. You're closer to the Aussie culture, maybe these people are racists, but unless you can prove that this community would not be upset about a school for 1500 lily-white Muslims being built in their community then you can't make that charge.

You claim that you understand that Muslims are adherents to an ideaology not a race, your posts say otherwise.

35. Car dealership advert tells atheists to 'shut up'

Comment #185395 by Christopher Davis on May 27, 2008 at 5:56 pm

Overall I find this amusing. However, it irks me that this idiot thinks that all atheists are people with an agenda to get "In God We Trust" off U.S. money and keep kids from praying in school.

I don't care what's on our money, and I don't care if kids pray in school, as long as they do it on their own time and of their own free will.

Fuckers like this don't have a clue. Maybe that's why they feel the need to abdicate responsibility for their lives to their imaginary friend God and his boy Jesus.

"... by the grace of God, we'll be here tomorrow." Kind of makes you hope a tornado wipes out his lot.

36. Religion is a product of evolution, software suggests

Comment #185207 by Christopher Davis on May 27, 2008 at 7:42 am

This research ranks right up there with the search for Bigfoot. I can't believe people get grants for this stuff.

37. Town moves against Islamic school

Comment #185141 by Christopher Davis on May 27, 2008 at 4:34 am

Goldy,

I wasn't trying to throw the Afghan card on you, sorry that it seemed that way.

My point was more about the schools. Actually, it's not just the Taliban burning down schools here. It's more complicated.

There is a fear of western indoctrination and a reluctance to educate girls here in the Pashtun areas. Our efforts are also thwarted by apathy and good old fashioned greed.

To make matters worse, it seems like one too many Generals read "Three Cups of Tea", because our approach here is all fucked up. We should be training teachers, not erecting structures.

In short, it's frustrating.

Anyway, I still think that equating opposition to Islam with racism is wrong-headed.

38. Town moves against Islamic school

Comment #185070 by Christopher Davis on May 26, 2008 at 9:11 pm

Goldy,

A handful of people shouting racial epithets hardly justifies labeling an entire town racist.
Furthermore, no matter how similar in appearance (they're brown, so fucking what?) these particular Muslims may be, opposing the spread of Islam is not racism...and therein lies the problem.

It's this white-guilt driven, apologist patronization that allows Muslims to get away with any old shit they please just by screaming "RACISM!"

I'm in Afghanistan right now. We build schools here and they get burned down---not because we are planning on providing a western-style education, but simply because the school was built with western money. How do you think it would go over if someone tried to establish a school for 1500 Christian children in a predominantly Muslim country? Would you label the Muslims opposed to its construction as racist? I doubt it.

Racism is a strong charge which carries a plethora of consequences, not the least of which is a dismissal of legitimate concerns.

But you know what? Fuck it. I'm white. I'm opposed to the spread of Islam. I must be a racist. Since most Muslims are darker than me, it's the only logical answer.

Now if you all will excuse me, I've got to go deliver some school supplies to a couple of the local madrassas...I mean schools...that the local peace-lovers haven't burnt to the fucking ground.

39. The Mind-Altering Role of Incense in Religion

Comment #185061 by Christopher Davis on May 26, 2008 at 8:20 pm

What's next? Priests slipping roofies to altar boys...er, wait a minute.

40. That's it. Texas really is doomed.

Comment #185057 by Christopher Davis on May 26, 2008 at 8:10 pm

9-6? Either 60% of the board agrees with this idiot or else they don't have the balls to stand up to this guy. Either way, Texas is fucked.

As for giving Texas back to Mexico, I say throw in a few billion dollars to sweeten the deal, just demand that they move it. Driving across that desolate shithole is nothing but a waste of time.

41. Town moves against Islamic school

Comment #185050 by Christopher Davis on May 26, 2008 at 7:12 pm

Goldy,

If it were explained to the locals that way, then maybe the BBC would have a harder time finding unsophisticated commentary.

However, I'll admit that if someone told me that's how this "school" is going to operate, I wouldn't believe them.

42. Town moves against Islamic school

Comment #185038 by Christopher Davis on May 26, 2008 at 6:47 pm

mordacious1,

I'm not asking you to tolerate bigotry. I'm just saying that some people (including you) might want to try extending the same benefit of the doubt to these Aussies as you do to the Muslims.

Bigotry arises out of ignorance. Most of these people have probably never had the experience of associating with Muslims (especally ones like those you described earlier). Their experience is probably limited to watching extremeists on TV blow shit up and call for the overthrow of Western society. So they are a bit ignorant, does that justify calling them racist?

This isn't a case of someone burning crosses in somebody's yard, it's about the constuction of a 1500 student Madrassa in a community that, according to this article, has been historically resistant to growth.

I know it might make you feel all open-minded and superior to point out that not all Muslims are bad people mordacious1, but if you think for one minute that the majority of Muslims reciprocate our tolerance, then you are deluding yourself.

43. Town moves against Islamic school

Comment #185006 by Christopher Davis on May 26, 2008 at 4:58 pm

"Isn't it sad, horribly pathetic, that the only people willing to stand up to religious indoctrination in Australia are a bunch of racist hicks?"---Paine

Could that be because anyone who voices oppostion to Islam is immediately branded a "racist hick"?

Doesn't matter so much being called/thought a racist if you are a blue-collar worker, but if you have a job with any type of political or social influence, it's a death-stroke.

Anyway, glad to see that there are several contributors here who understand that Muslims aren't a race.

Also, the comments about tolerance strike me as ironic since the people so hell bent on demanding it, seem incapable of extending it to the people opposed to this school.

44. Town moves against Islamic school

Comment #184986 by Christopher Davis on May 26, 2008 at 4:12 pm

Okay, I normally don't post until I've read at least the majority of the comments preceding mine, but in this case I'll make an exception.

Six of the first ten comments have referred to the people opposed to this school as racist. Since when are Muslims a race?

Xenophobic? Definitely. Bigoted? Probably. Racist? Sorry, doesn't fit.

Hell, the article doesn't even mention what ethnic group these particular Muslims belong too. I mean granted, it's pretty safe to assume that they are from a group that produces more melanin than your average Aussie, but I bet that the average person is opposed to this school because it is going to attract a lot of Muslims to the community not because its going to attract a lot of "brown people".

Martin Luther King Jr. preached about a day when a man would be judged by his character not by the color of his skin. A person's religious beliefs are a big part of their character. Branding these people racist is unfair.

45. Animal Science Without Evolution

Comment #184711 by Christopher Davis on May 26, 2008 at 2:53 am

Hopefully this doorstop only remains available at Christian Bookstores and never sees the inside of a legitimate educational facility.

Christian Bookstore? Kind of like a Eunuch sperm donor...what's the point?

46. Animal Science Without Evolution

Comment #184707 by Christopher Davis on May 26, 2008 at 2:43 am

"What's a "christian child"?"---OverUsedChewToy

In this case it a kid unfortunate enough to have been born to parents with their heads up their ass.

47. Mail-boat record 'proves Darwin stole his original ideas from a Welsh scientist'

Comment #184703 by Christopher Davis on May 26, 2008 at 2:07 am

"As was pointed out to me, Darwinism was coined by the opposition, to make people who liked "the theory" seem like they had some devotion to a person, not an idea. Do what I do, and never use the phrase."---happy

I'm with you on this.

48. Repulsive but right

Comment #184584 by Christopher Davis on May 25, 2008 at 7:33 pm

Teratornis,

Thought provoking post, but...

Infant mortality rates in most of the Muslim world are at least double that of Western countries. This is because, to put it bluntly, they are backwardass in their approach to women's healthcare. The question is how much of that can be attributed to their religious beliefs?

Quite a few of the people (men) here in Afghanistan smoke and/or chew tobacco products.

You are right about the drunk driving. However, these bastards drive like they are intoxicated even when they are not. I speculate that if they had more cars in the rural areas, there would be more traffic fatalaties.

49. How Are Humans Unique?

Comment #184573 by Christopher Davis on May 25, 2008 at 6:49 pm

In regards to animals and moral sense...

I know I've read about reconciliation being a big part of Bonobo "culture" (unfortunately,can't remeber where), and I remember watching a show on the DISCOVERY CHANNEL about two chimps (Keely and Ivey, I think) and when one of them pissed off an older chimp she repeatededly tried to reconcile, but to no avail. The older chimp wouldn't immediately forgive her and the young chimp's behaviour was noticeably altered.

50. How Are Humans Unique?

Comment #184564 by Christopher Davis on May 25, 2008 at 6:05 pm

"a theory to science is to the military a five star general."---moderndaythomas

Sorry Tom, I'm going to have to disagree. Most scientific theories make sense.

But, that reminds me of a joke...

Q: What's the difference between a General and God?
A: God doesn't think he's a General