1. State Approves Evolution As 'Scientific Theory'

Comment #130564 by Imperion on February 20, 2008 at 9:45 pm

Here we go. What I was referring to was a voucher proposed by Jeb Bush. We were providing funding through loopholes in our state constitution (for 8 years I think?), but when it was made more public, official proposals had to be made to try and give the appearance of it being constitutional. It was rejected in 2005, but not only have they never stopped trying to get it passed (they are on their 4th attempt now), but the hijinks persist.

Here is what is going on lately:
http://www.au.org/site/News2?abbr=pr&page=NewsArticle&id=9667

Apparently, I spoke a bit too fast about us still funding religious schools. I was in error. Still, you can see how they never stop fighting. It is almost as if nobody cares about or knows about how all state legislature is still bound by the Bill of Rights via the 14th Amendment. It's like some kinda game.

2. State Approves Evolution As 'Scientific Theory'

Comment #130501 by Imperion on February 20, 2008 at 5:52 pm

Comment #130436 by MuNky82:

OFF TOPIC - Imperion, cool avatar, where is it from?

Thanks. It is from a late edition cover to "Masks of Nyarlathotep." The image is in reverence to my favorite writer, H.P. Lovecraft. In a final 1937 letter to a friend, Nils H. Frome, Lovecraft strived to 'disabuse' his young correspondent of spurious supernatural and occult delusions. The most remarkable part about this is that Lovecraft already knew he was about to die. Even at Death's door, he remained confident of his scientific beliefs.

Comment #130465 by MelM

Do you think this Kendall person and her coalition have any chance of getting "...and teachers should be permitted to engage students in a critical analysis of that evidence." added to the standards by the legislature?

Thank you for the congratulations. Yes, they have a good chance of watering down the standards even more. They won't stop until someone important stops them. You may have seen the national polls regarding this issue (such as the ABCnews one) where the majority of responses were for the teaching of evolution in our state schools. In Florida, this is not the case. We are vastly outnumbered by not just Christian Creationists, but those of the Young Earth variety. For every person who spoke in favor of science at the DoE meetings, there were 3 more who embarrassed themselves to the world by speaking against the standards. They are loud and they are organized. In reality, they want nothing short of overturning the 1948 Mccollum case that took religion out of public school. They believe "the Separation of Church and State" is a myth (I'm serious). Lastly, to provide you with evidence as to just how powerful they are here, we Floridians have a portion of our taxes that funds faith-based private schools via loophole. Before you scream about how unconstitutional that is, save it. We already know. Secular organizations try to get it reversed all the time, but they fail over and over (at least 3 times now).

Now that the Republicans have control, it is like Florida thinks it can do what it wants (apparently, this is so). I'm not sure what to tell you other than hang in there and see what happens. On the bright side, the many Representatives that threatened to have the school board's decision crushed were only doing so if the word "theory" wasn't inserted into the standards. They got what they wanted, so I don't have any idea how the enemy has grounds to stand on. Still, that may just be wishful thinking. The Christian groups here will take as much as they are given and they are never satisfied. They will scream and scream and scream until the entire science standards revision is thrown out if they can get it. That is certainly possible.

If you want to follow our drama, the Florida Citizens for Science blog is useful. http://www.flascience.org/wp/

3. State Approves Evolution As 'Scientific Theory'

Comment #130083 by Imperion on February 20, 2008 at 3:35 am

Fenriswolf:

In a way this is a good thing I suppose, but it is a shame that the theory should still be regarded as "controversial". It's also slightly worrying that the vote was so close. What the fuck is going on over there?

The revised standards are not written controversially. It is "the scientific theory of evolution...the concept underlying all of biology...supported by multiple forms of scientific evidence." In addition, there is a preface that accurately defines what a scientific theory is (see Geoff's post above). The 4-3 vote is deceptive. Two of the members who voted against were so distraught at the creationists' attacks that they pledged to vote no if any of the words were changed from the original. This is because they did not want to give the Creationists any opportunity, whatsoever, to know that the school board could be successfully influenced by their tactics. So, in reality, only one person was against the addition of biological evolution to the curriculum. That person is our local fool, Donna Callaway. She's led the charge against the science standards the entire way.

Adam Morrison:

How about somebody comes up with some logical criticisms and not stupid poofist nonsense? Any takers? No? Between this and the 'oranges argument' Florida is really shining this week

People from all over the country came to stand up for us. Multiple members of the science standards writing committee came in person to defend them. Every single one of them sent letters. The NAS showed their support. The NCSE showed their support (Eugenie Scott came here personally). Florida citizens for science showed their support. Multiple college and high school science teachers came from all over the state. Our fantastic FSU professors went out of their way to speak to the public. Last but not least, many average citizens were standing up to be heard in favor of the standards. Don't be sad or sarcastic for Florida. Be happy for us. We have won (for now).

annabanana:

Why, in the name of the FSM, would we want to placate any of these morons? This is super annoying since it is re-affirming the misrepresentation of the meaning of the word "theory".

Since you asked, I will tell you. In Florida, the religious have the power that matters. Maybe, further North, there is a difference between Republican/conservative and Christian... but not here. They own the legislature and the majority leader, if I'm not mistaken, is about as Young Earth Creationist as it gets. A significant portion of our counties (even my county, unfortunately) demanded a compromise to the "dogmatic wording of the standards". Multiple people with friends in our legislature constantly threaten to have the state school board overridden if the word "theory" was not inserted. The words "scientific theory of" were added before the word evolution. You may think this is a compromise, but it is an enormous win for science here in our state. Before this, we didn't teach it at all! Yes, it is a slight misrepresentation of the fact of biological evolution and its parent theories, but trust me on this -- we'll take it.

One small step for Florida, one giant leap for mankind.

Btw. This isn't over. The DI isn't quite as stupid as the average Florida creationist. You can see here that they are not fooled by the supposed compromise of adding the 'scientific theory' wording (it takes a special kind of ignorance to think that actually reduces its standing). http://www.evolutionnews.org/2008/02/florida_state_board_of_educati_1.html
DI is heavily encouraging the critics to get this issue swamped into our legislative session (which is just starting...). There are many people who have vowed to do this anyway. So, keep an eye on us.

4. State Approves Evolution As 'Scientific Theory'

Comment #130080 by Imperion on February 20, 2008 at 3:33 am

Tyler Durden:

Controversial? Huh? It's only "controversial" in backwater-hicksville-redneck-dumbass-ignorant-cleutus-from-the-simpsons type areas of the world USA!!

You know... I was furious when I read your post, because I am also being grouped with your stereotype that you've made of Florida. But then I thought about it. You are absolutely right. Your words describe us perfectly. I would rather have people constantly point out and ridicule my state's general incompetence whenever and wherever it shows up. It will only embarrass those who deserve it and make them think twice when the rest of the country laughs at us. Keep up the good work.

5. Believing In Things Unseen Is Not Delusion

Comment #21366 by Imperion on February 8, 2007 at 11:52 pm

I would like to comment that a clever explanation of a delusion is still a delusion, but that wasn't even clever.