1. Turek vs. Hitchens Debate: Does God Exist?

Comment #277442 by VJocys on November 3, 2008 at 7:03 pm

If humans is "just a bunch of chemicals", then movie Star Wars is "just a bunch of pixels" :).

Morale is result of social Evolution. Needs of living beings are greater than possibilities. Therefore to reach goals, living beings sometimes need not just to improve themselves, to create better tools, but to create groups and cooperate too (individuals in groups can afford themselves to specialize – and this brings industrial revolution). Living beings, which learned to cooperate and created rules of interaction - increased their abilities to survive and outrivaled living beings, which did not coordinate their actions between each other and fought with each other. It is important, that no one will destroy reached results, therefore living beings created rules, how to avoid destruction. You can fail to defend city, if part of the brick wall around the city will be weak and can be destroyed by enemy, – therefore groups created rules... forcing to repair and support weak members-links of society, to avoid failing through them – usually it is cheaper to repair, than destroy and build new from scratch. Rules (limitations) were created during thinking about how OTHERS must behave with CREATOR of rules (creators of rules usually do not have intentions to limit themselves – they have intentions to limit others). Every creator thought that OTHERS must behave well with him and that OTHERS must not steal or kill him. In process of creating, CREATOR think about his own welfare in society.

Therefore every society has higher moral rules, than average morality of society (morality rises from selfishness). Believers do not understand that, therefore they think that to create higher morality, than society’s average... higher being (God) is needed. Even killers and thieves don’t want to allow to others to steal and kill, because it is threat to them – if everyone around will be allowed to kill or rob you – you will have less chances to survive. Every creator would like to allow to himself everything... but... usually he is controlled by others around him... as he trying to control others himself.

HIGH morality is actions, which give PROFIT to beings who rate situation. The more PROFIT gives member of society, the more he is valuable and placed by society to higher social level (and his morality is rated as HIGH).

LOW morality is actions, which gives LOSSES to beings who rate situation. The more LOSSES gives member of society, the less he is valuable and placed by society to lower social level (and his morality is rated as LOW).

Morality is subjective and depends on amount of PROFIT-LOSSES brought to rater. Therefore... what is moral for one person or group... can be immoral to other person or group. For example: to kill a Jew and take his possessions for Nazi and his Fatherland was moral thing, but the same action was immoral for Jew and Jews.

It is people who create morality, not religions. Each religion just add to morality requirement to preserve itself and worship its God (in reality... through worshiping God... to support his “representatives on Earth” – priests. Priests are trying to avoid view that they are TAKERS (rating of TAKERS are low in society and have disadvantages). Therefore they creating psychological trick and trying to TAKE indirectly ...through God. Besides, priests are trying to portrait themselves as usefully (society usually pay for usefulness), therefore they have no shame in claiming authorship of morality and other inventions, which belong not to priests or religion. Japanese are not Christians, but they have morality too... it shows, that Christianity is not necessary for morality in society. Even animals sometimes behave moral (of course, their morality is low as their intellect) – for example: care for each other. Are these animals Christians and read Bible every Sunday?

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Example with “clock in sand” does not prove God, because clock is created by humans. You cannot prove immaterial beings by presenting MATERIAL creations, created by MATERIAL beings. But it proves, that creation possibilities lays in mater itself and God is not required to create such things as clocks (humans are part of mater). I think, to prove immaterial God, believers must present adequate examples in witch some immaterial creator created material thing (and this example must be accepted by official science). I don’t know, what kind of example it can be,... maybe some material thing created by elves, tooth fairy or maybe Santa Claus – he is pretty invisible - like God. For example:

"Some kid walked near Christmas tree and saw box with toy car inside. He understood, that this box could not appear by random chance (and especially from nothing)... therefore it must be creator - of course... it is Santa Claus." - Voilà... existence of Santa Claus proved.

2. Turek vs. Hitchens Debate: Does God Exist?

Comment #277033 by VJocys on November 3, 2008 at 3:03 am

"How the Universe exploded in to being out of NOTHING?"

As I understand science DOES NOT SAY (!), that Universe exploded in to being out of NOTHING (this stupid claim, invented by believers, has nothing to do with science and sometimes remain without proper respond). Science (main rule of mater/energy conservation) says exactly the opposite - SOMETHING can not appear from NOTHING or disappear to NOTHING (there is just change of forms – and that "something" is not God). "Big Bang" was just event, when Universe developed from one form to another... to form which we see and know TODAY. There is no answer to question HOW Universe exploded in to being out of NOTHING, because core of this QUESTION-CLAIM is ABSURD and WRONG. It is like asking popular religious question of the past (inspired by the Bible)... Where are four corners of the Earth, which were shaken by God in the Bible? We know now, that Earth is round and HAVE NO such corners. It seems, that believers with understanding of “Big Bang” is far away from today’s science, as they were with understanding about form of the Earth.

Bible:Job:26:7 He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, and hangeth the earth upon nothing.
Bible:Job:38:13 That it might take hold of the ends of the earth, that the wicked might be shaken out of it?

How morality (rules of behaviour in collective) forms in society without religion and God also known thing today (and was known before)... not for believers, maybe, as I see. Their knowledge and logic is too weak to understand such things – they need miracles for that :).

3. The brain in love

Comment #215083 by VJocys on July 21, 2008 at 8:48 am

"gcdavis: I am afraid you have lost me there! Sorry to be rude but that sounds like a bad translation from the packaging of a Japanese pharmaceutical product."

"SUFFERING comes from losing beloved-cornucopia or when beloved-cornucopia rejects loving person, his dreams-needs or when loving person just thinks about that."

Is it better? Of course there are more reasons for different feelings, but I tried to be short.

"Love is..."

And (whole) elephant is (just) his tail :).

4. The brain in love

Comment #215007 by VJocys on July 21, 2008 at 7:27 am

Benefit is main goal of people - when we gain something, we feel good. Who feel good form losses and pain - run into death more quickly and therefore always is minority. We fall in love with people who can GIVE and SUPPORT, fulfil our desires-needs ...or we just think that they can do this. People can experience different feelings even from imaginary situations, because they can't separate precisely real from imaginary in their brains (entertainment - movies, music, books, and etc. business is based on that). People can feel REAL horror or pleasure from IMAGINARY scenario-situations (for example by watching horror or romantic movies). Therefore people use FANTASIES to generate different REAL feelings. In such way they compensate sadness with joy or vice versa.

LOVE is almost similar to LIKE, just more expanded. It is easy to love person who GIVES and fulfil our desires-needs ...or we just thing that he can give (we dream, like watch movie). Much harder is to be loved - you must HAVE something to GIVE (people will like-love you, if you will GIVE them, what they need). Just because someone loves-likes you for what you HAVE and GIVE ...that doesn't mean that this person will give you the same amount in return or he will not love someone else - if he will find other GIVER, he will like-love him too. Pleasant emotions in our head, which we feel from RECEIVING, are not exchangeable valuable - it is just emotional reaction-response from TAKING or thinking about that. Love includes feelings, which seem to contradict each other sometimes and so disturb understanding, what love is, for some people:

PLEASURE. We feel pleasant feelings, when fulfillers of our needs fulfil our needs (we RECEIVE) or we just think how fulfillers of our needs fulfil our needs by constructing virtual-imaginary situations in our brains.

INFERIORITY complex and RESPECT to beloved. Because beloved usually is implied as a GIVER, loving person feels as a TAKER. Beloved usually has, what loving person doesn't and need. People, who HAVE and GIVE, is in higher social level-stage, than people who TAKE (or doesn't have). Therefore, when people fall in love, they feel shy in front of their beloved, because they can feel themselves belonging to lower social level-stage in compare with beloved. Inferiority complex can be bigger in first stages of love-relationships, because at the start people present just best sides of themselves and in such way create idealized-perverted image to each other - they look and considered better than actually are and deserve.

SHYNESS-MODESTY involuntarily or consciously is used to pretend that you are not TAKER - for not to scare-off beloved object.

ATTACHMENT. It is not hard to attach to person, who you see as fulfiller of your desires-needs.

SUFFERING comes from losing beloved-cornucopia or when beloved-cornucopia rejects loving person, his dreams-needs or when loving person just thinks about that. TENSION - from thinking about what to do to avoid that. Losing (your cornucopia) is unpleasant. Usually we fall in love with person who can GIVE. Majority of people want to TAKE - not GIVE, therefore usually there is misalignment-discrepancy in love situations.

FEAR and TENSION. The bigger cornucopia in minds or reality beloved is, the bigger is responsibility to deal with him (because bigger loses can be by losing beloved-cornucopia). Therefore people FEAR to lose their beloved-cornucopia because of force majeur or by acting mistakenly and TENSION by intensive thinking, how to act to avoid that ...especially when standing near beloved person.

SACRIFICE comes from defending your cornucopia-beloved and giving something in return (what you have and your beloved need from you or someone else), because otherwise you can lose your cornucopia.

Love between RICH, SMART AND BEAUTIFUL and POOR, STUPID AND UGLY is rare - such love is popular mostly in movies and intended to arouse REAL pleasant feelings from IMAGINARY scenarios in TAKERS - give them hope, that by having NOTHING you can be loved and access cornucopia-EVERYTHING what you want - id est make profitable deal.

There are many bullshit about love, created to cover selfishness, because nobody wants to feel or to be viewable as selfish - it is not useful, because society does not like and reject selfish people.

5. Louisiana's latest creationism bill moves to House floor

Comment #185575 by VJocys on May 28, 2008 at 5:30 am

It seems that good education in USA is too expensive and majority can't afford it. And later... that poorly educated majority cope with bright minority :). Maybe, if all education system in USA will stay, as it is now, this battle will continue again and again and again, without good results for science and educated people. I am happy that scientists are not roasted on fire as witches in USA, because they know many magical stuff... for example, how to make little lightning in electrical outlet - one day they can die and go to Hell for that.

6. CBC News: Sunday - Richard Dawkins

Comment #100777 by VJocys on December 19, 2007 at 10:15 am

How to explain, why people do good things for strangers? There are no total strangers. You can do bad things to someone and that someone can revenge privately or publicly any time in the future... The more bad things you do, the more you have to fear knife in your back ...and sometimes it comes :) � this does not create good (including psychological) environment. Bad (including psychological) environment shortens life. Bad people have bigger risk to be destroyed or isolated from society by others as threat. And people love and follow who GIVES. So if you want love and followers... you must GIVE and pretend that you do not take anything back instead (because taking back subtracts from GIVING). There are many other simple and explainable reasons, why people are good to others, which do not have relations with God or religion, but believers are logically blind to see them as it makes their God and religion unnecessary to do good things and therefore makes unnecessary to support it. It is not in religious people interests to lose support and privileges through their religion, therefore they will stay deliberately blind to understand unreligious reasons to do good in the future as today.

7. Debate between Michael Shermer and Dinesh D'Souza

Comment #81111 by VJocys on October 24, 2007 at 6:24 am

It is amazing how Dinesh D'Souza can pervert facts, lie and make from those false conclusions :). Like about scientific advance in Christian countries... forgetting for example Japan. Or by comparing two old societies like Athens and Jerusalem which BOTH were BELIEVERS - Athens or Spartans WERE NOT(!) secularists or atheists... or that Hitler was an atheist. Dinesh D'Souza is a shameless LIAR - very presentative face of Christianity.

People invent and write (moral) rules-limitations, how to behave, not for themselves but for other people. How must behave other people. No one wants around him killers, robbers, rapists, because it is threat and uncomfortable. If you DON'T UNDERSTAND how rules (moral) appear in society that does not mean that they are created by God. This means, that you are stupid and therefore don't know how society works.

And about Rabbit and Lion... there more like Shepard and Sheep. It is Shepard who is trying to install religion in to sheep to cut it without resistance.

8. Christopher Hitchens and Al Sharpton

Comment #53624 by VJocys on July 2, 2007 at 10:00 am

Why moral rules are natural and higher than creator's-human's moral average?

People are moral for profit. Or... species with moral rules (behave type / social / team skills), which give more chances to survive, have more chances to survive and survive better... even without thinking about that... because it ads ability to cooperate (10 geeks can beat 1 body-builder). If you (1) like to kill, then others (in most cases more than 1 and therefore stronger) simply will kill or isolate you from world as a threat for they own safety. Moral rules - like mutations. If you have longer legs from your parents and pass that feature to the next generation - you have more chances to reach bananas and survive. Not just like... you can reach more bananas if you will decide to grow longer legs. Of course, moral rules can "mutate" in living organisms to suit their needs. People are more moral, if they understand better tight connections with society, in which they live, and feedback of their actions. Atheists don't piss in swimming pool not because God said so (you will not find in the Bible's 10 commandments "Don't piss in swimming pool"). Smart people understand that society, in which we all live together, and being in it � it is like having bath in big public swimming pool. So atheists don't piss themselves and ask others not to do so, even if no one sees their piss. Because they don't want to drink urine, eat shit and spend THIS (only) life in urine and shit. It is Christians, who prefer to suffer... and sometimes think that if they will eat more shit in THIS life, they will drink more sweet milk with honey after death (in OTHER life). This religious ideology is very useful when government wants to hold people in poverty (deep shit), take from them everything and at the same time people will be happy and will not protest against that, because will see situation as more guaranteed way to Heaven.

You don't have to be intelligent and have religion to live in harmony - for example, ants don't have priests, small churches and don't pray to God every Sunday under they anthill. Even they understood (evolved), that you can defeat 10 times bigger problems (for example... bug) if you will work together, but not against each other. People understood that it is more easy to reach their goals and faster to build bridges over the rivers if you will work as friendly team (not alone) and will not kill other members of your team and will not steal materials from construction yard. And if you want to have team member, he must be your friend, not enemy who works against you. And if you want him to be your friend, you must be friendly to him. Groups with moral rules (social skills) have better chance to survive than groups without social skills. It is because only with social collaboration you can build great things (like nuclear rockets). Social skills was favored by evolution because they allowed specialization of animals in single group (created more competitor able professionals) - it was natural "industrial" revolution. Smart people (from their experience) understood that trust is good thing, because it helps... to do collective work and share ideas faster... than between people who are suspicious and even paranoid to each other. Good psychical state holds workers in good optimistic shape and they can produce more. So, smart people trying to find the ways, how to create environment which leads to that state, for their own benefit.

Because moral rules are higher, than society's moral average, people think, that must be "higher" creator-source for moral rules. And because that creator is not society (because society doesn't look adequate to moral rules), they think that such creator may be beyond that society ("higher" than society as created rules). In essence, moral rules are suppressive limitations of actions (DON'T steal, DON'T kill, DON'T do adultery, do THAT or do THAT). Usually, people don't want and mind ...to limit THEMSELVES - they are trying to limit OTHERS. When people create moral rules-limitations, they don't write these rules for themselves, how they (rule creators) must act with others. They determine how OTHERS must act with them (rule creators). OTHERS must be LIMITED and treat well and nice with creators. In most cases rules are for OTHERS � they guarantee safety and good life for creators. Even killers want that others would not even try to kill them - not because God denied killing, but because it is simply good for killers and guarantee their better survival. You have more chances to survive and be in good health if all people in the World will be friendly... not hitmans and rapists. Just stupid people need God to understand that.

9. Christopher Hitchens and Al Sharpton

Comment #53457 by VJocys on July 1, 2007 at 2:07 pm

ImagineAZ, I don't mind :).

Keith, of course God is not great, because He killed millions, including children and woman, and did "this" with one family:



:). There is amazing book about Bible (and God's actions) written by Antuan Gabriel Pages - Leo Taxil "La Bible Amusante" ("The Amusing Bible") in 1897. I hope, it is not impossible to get it's English version in US.

10. Christopher Hitchens and Al Sharpton

Comment #53422 by VJocys on July 1, 2007 at 11:53 am

Again... believers talk about Stalin as an Atheist... (Sorry for bad English and not very good translations from Russian for that reason).

Stalin WAS NOT an atheist but communist! He has RELIGIOUS education in Gori CHURCH School and Tbilisi Priest Seminary.

One of Stalin's early poems said:
(...) Like beam of the Sun,
lived great truth �
Divine dream. (...)

But people who forgot God,
with darkness in their hearts,
instead of wine served poison
to him in the cup (...).

Stalin's daughter Svetlana said (documentary "Kremlin kids") how Stalin told her that Christ existed and history of Christ, after she showed interest in one book from series "Christ" in Stalin's private library (it was right before 1932 � when Stalin's wife Nadezda shoot herself � it seams, that she was an atheist, because banned for nannies to talk about God with kids. And maybe it is symbolic, that her name means "Hope").

In 1933 at meeting of the Political Bureau Stalin give speech where he told to prevent churches: "Central Committee considers that it is impossible to designing buildings with destruction of temples and churches".

In 1939 Stalin removed Lenin's instruction from May, 1st, 1919 for N 13666-2 "About struggle against priests and religion" and he gave orders to NKVD (PCIA) to release from custody already arrested priests (Lenin banned religion because she supported monarchy).

Stalin started organizing meetings (1942-1943) with priests and reopened Churches and seminaries in 1943. In one such meeting: Stalin told: "Well, as you want, this your business and if you want theological class, begin with them, but the Government will not have objections and against opening seminaries and academies".

His personal guard (10 years) J.Solowjew (documentary "Inside The Kremlin") claimed that Stalin went to CHURCH. Stalin liked to quote Bible. He even left mark in book of Anatole France about God: "Don't know traces, don't see. There is no Him for them"... as Stalin knew traces and saw God himself.

One more fact how Stalin "hated" religion: English clergyman Hewlett Johnson received the Stalin Prize on 1951-06-27.

In Hitler's Germany, Stalin's Russia, Mao's China, Pol Pot's Cambodia(Theravada Buddhist 95%, other 5%) statistically almost all (~100%) people at that time were BELIEVERS! For example in Lithuania in "1923 population census" 100% of population were believers. It is wrong to say, that these countries (like Russia in 1917) were destroyed by atheists. They were destroyed by communists (it is not about believing in GOD (atheism/theism), but about COLLECTIVE PROPERTY (commun = collective/shared).

11. The Stupidity of Fox News is Truly Beyond Belief

Comment #52332 by VJocys on June 26, 2007 at 6:58 pm

Criminals like idea, widely promoted by Christians, that you can be released from sins, for example like "killing", by ...killing :) innocent person � very logical theory :). Especially when that innocent person is God � oh... such catchy idea - kill God, maybe, would not resist even Richard Dawkins :). I am sure, that he could kill even few Gods per day. So, maybe for that reason Christ legend is so popular. With years no one became innocent. So we can be released from our sins and any bastard, who's innocence near us make us feel bad and guilty, stabbing our eyes ...just with one shot ...or three big nails and piece of wood :).

12. Dogma

Comment #40476 by VJocys on May 14, 2007 at 10:30 am

Soviet Union was not about Atheism (relations between humans and Super-Being), but about Communism (relations between humans - shared property). Of course, Russians did not like religion for few reasons... Adolf Hitler in his book "Mein Kapmf" wrote "my conduct is in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator", German military weared signs with text "Gott Mit Uns" ("God With Us"). Second thing, Fascism with Mussolini was born in Italy (where is Vatican). Bloodiest communist regime dictator... Josef Stalin has theological education from Church School and Priests Seminary in Tbilisi... and according to his bodyguard Jury Solovjov went to Kremlins Churh during the WW2 when was alone from delegations. Church supported monarchy during revolution. So... there were many reasons, why in Soviet Union... religion has bad face. But... as now statistics shows... in "soviet" countries there are more believers in God, than in West Europe - in reality, communist regime not destroyed religion, but preserved it. Soviet regime did't closed all churches it successfully used confessions to espionage people. Do not believe in God: Japan (65%), Sweden (46%), UK (46%), Germany (44%), Denmark (43%), France (43%), Belgium (42%) --- Russia (24%), China (8%).

13. Root of All Evil? Discussion

Comment #27944 by VJocys on March 27, 2007 at 11:02 am

Joseph Stalin was an atheist?

The bloodiest communist - Josef Stalin went to CHURCH'S school and later to PRIEST'S SEMINARY in Tbilisi. STALIN HAS RELIGIOUS EDUCATION! What is funny... that Stalin WON stipend to seminary by this strong religious effort and proving himself as radical believer � I think it is not wide spread information between theists (especially in USA :). More... in French, Austrian, Germany and Russian documentary "Inside the Kremlin" (2004) Stalin's bodyguard Jurij Solovjov (10 years) claimed that in WW2, when Stalin was alone, he went to small Kremlins CHURCH � interesting, for what? Maybe to meet and talk with Lenin's soul :)? Stalin's daughter Svetlana (in documentary about "Leaders kids" ) also said, that Stalin maybe was a believer, because swallowed answer to question "Does God exists?". USSR was not an ATHEISTIC, but COMUNISTIC regime. It was not about GOD, but about COLLECTIVE PROPERTY. Church functioned and was not fully oppressed in USSR � maybe, because KGB very successfully used it to spy on people through confessions. Of course, Russians in communistic regime didn't liked church very much. Why Russians hated church, especially after war? Because church was defended rich people in revolution time and was flirting with Nazi in World War Two. So it is normal, that Russians revenged to all who collaborated with Nazi. But in communist regime (Stalins's time) communists even used some recommendations from the Bible. Like, it was popular and legal to decide to kill someone by three people group ("Troika") as it said in New Testament (He 19:10:18). And of course... "All capital/property is evil and rich people must gift their property to poor � was not too far from The Bible and Christ teachings as want to present Christians. Likely, those ideas about defending poor people and that rich people will go to hell or at least for them will be hard to go to heaven... Stalin collected from his ...religious teachings. Second thing... statistics shows, that mostly in communistic countries there are less atheists, than in West Europe.

Sweden 46%
UK 46%
Germany 44%
Denmark 43%
France 43%
Belgium 42%
Netherlands 39%
-------------------------
Russia 24%
China 8%
Lithuania 14%

It seems, that communist regime not destroyed religion, but preserved it. And other thing... collective property... and similar payment for job - Main Idea in USSR was CONTRADICTED Darwin's Evolution theory!, because this destroyed natural selection - people who worked more were paid same as these who worked less.

14. Root of All Evil? Discussion

Comment #27940 by VJocys on March 27, 2007 at 10:48 am

Adolf Hitler was an atheist?

Theists like to lie, that he was an atheist, but Adolf Hitler clearly wrote in his book "Mein Kampf - Chapter II - Years of Study and Suffering in Vienna" : "And so I believe to-day that my conduct is in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator. In standing guard against the Jew I am defending the handiwork of the Lord". � Oooohhh!!! I am sure it is look exactly like pure atheist's words :))). "Gott Mit Uns" ("God With Us") was on German's military uniforms. � It looks exactly like atheist's catchword too :))). Hitler in persecute and exterminating Jews borrowed many ideas from Popes and Bible. For example, to force Jews wear signs and live in ghettos was "brilliant" Popes idea in 1555 year's "Cum nimis absurdum". Hitler just repeated it.