Comments by Vinelectric

451. Why do we ignore the plight of ex-Muslims?

Comment #81921 by Vinelectric on October 25, 2007 at 11:56 am

All a woman needs to do is carry a gun. Then shoot the next fanatic who assaults her

Take the law into your own hands and you end up where Iraq has. No sane person would discourage people from defending themselves but the reason laws exist is that people tend to have varying definitions of what constitues a retaliable "assault". This is espcially true of those with volatile tempers.

Sorry mate, but better keep your hollywood style justice to yourselves.

452. Arguments From Design, First Cause, Something Rather Than Nothing, Fundamental Constants

Comment #81915 by Vinelectric on October 25, 2007 at 11:41 am

Argument from design

Compares apples with oranges.

453. Arguments From Design, First Cause, Something Rather Than Nothing, Fundamental Constants

Comment #81912 by Vinelectric on October 25, 2007 at 11:35 am

Fine tuning:

Unless it could be demonstrated that the universal constants can be varied in any way then the suggestion that they can is pure metaphysics.

454. Arguments From Design, First Cause, Something Rather Than Nothing, Fundamental Constants

Comment #81908 by Vinelectric on October 25, 2007 at 11:33 am

Something rather than nothing:

The presmuption is that nothingness is the default position. This comes not from observation but from claims made by religious holy books.

Stegner writes well on the topic. What do you mean by "Nothing"? Any description to nothingness makes it "something". However if nothing is meant to describe an absolute vaccum (something not observed in the universe) then Stegner explains how such a vaccum would be too unstable not to break its own symmetry and disintegrate into some form of energy.

455. You can't be moral without God!

Comment #81283 by Vinelectric on October 24, 2007 at 2:30 pm

Secular humanism tanscends biblical/Koranic morality judged against the standard of morality of the books themselves.

Bible condones slavery and inferior rights to women, which contradicts "all men are equal". The Koran prescribes eternal punishment for those who choose non belirf which contradicts "God is the most merciful being/Humans are free to choose what to believe"...etc.

456. Hitler, Stalin, Mao, etc. were atheists, and they were terrible! Answer that!

Comment #81274 by Vinelectric on October 24, 2007 at 2:21 pm

Atheism is too narrow a context to include Totalitarians-psychopaths and humanists in the same bowl.

Atheists have nothing to answer for.

457. Debate between Michael Shermer and Dinesh D'Souza

Comment #80393 by Vinelectric on October 21, 2007 at 3:56 pm

Good debate. Both men well spoken. Worlds apart from the cheap show put up by Lennox, don't you think?

458. Interview with Ayaan Hirsi Ali

Comment #80388 by Vinelectric on October 21, 2007 at 3:36 pm

why so many people who wanted UN resolutions to support the invasion and now complaining about an occupation that is supported by just such resolutions

It's because we now know that the political temper back then was the result of an overestimation of Saddam's military threat and that the likes of Hitchens have nothing but short-sightedness to justify their arrogance.

Furthermore a state of anarchy was induced by the almost instantaneous dissolution of the local law enforcement establishments. I don't know if that was supported by the UN.

459. Christopher Hitchens at AAI 07

Comment #80200 by Vinelectric on October 20, 2007 at 4:26 pm

Further to Riley's criticism I may add that Hitchens' challenge is unlikely to raise any eyebrows among the followers of Islam.

The Qur'an talks about non-believers who do all sorts of good and virteous deeds. According to the book, God even gives them an appropriate reward on Earth only to 'KICK THE SHIT OUT OF THEM' (to paraphrase a famous sketch) in the hereafter.

So that effectively narrows Hitchen's audience to theists who insist that God is the source of all morality. It seems that the majority of Christians do.

460. Muslims tell Christians: 'Make peace with us or survival of world is at stake'

Comment #78906 by Vinelectric on October 15, 2007 at 10:44 am

Fanusi Khiyal wrote

I will not say that Christianity and Christians today are an evil on a par with that of Islam. That is a monstrous injustice, and I will have no part of it.

Nice and sweet aren't they? Well according to them you'll burn forever in a masterpiece of sheer evil.

... and then they can enjoy visiting a radioactive crater where Mecca used to be.

Group punishment is wrong, for obvious reasons. I would like to imagine that the modern Atheist movement in the West is twinned to secular Humanistic values. Mass genocide is out of the question.

461. Muslims tell Christians: 'Make peace with us or survival of world is at stake'

Comment #78296 by Vinelectric on October 12, 2007 at 11:34 am

Fanusi

all this bull about talking to Islam aside, has only gotten us more and more radicals, more and more oppression, more and more jihadis, more and more subjugation, misery, and evil.

What is the clever alternative that you suggest? Give it a clear thought before your next bout of silly explosive rants.

462. If Muslim doctors are intolerant, let them go

Comment #78005 by Vinelectric on October 11, 2007 at 1:03 pm

Underpants

Thanks for the clarification.

463. If Muslim doctors are intolerant, let them go

Comment #77764 by Vinelectric on October 10, 2007 at 12:31 pm

Underpants:

Experience has shown that being extra-nice to muslims in the hope that they won't blow us up is not a useful approach.

Shocking !!

No sir, you werent' been nice to the muslim terrorists. You were just acting responsibly and in a prinicpled and civilized manner to the majority of the law abiding community.

Can't think of an easy way out of Islamic fundamentalism but the only way through to the terrorists is through the community that fosters them. Common sense, really. What are you trying to achieve by lumping them all together? Irresponsible and foolish comment.

Tell you what, why not just try a Holocuast next. If lumping together is the moral level at which your policy operates.

464. If Muslim doctors are intolerant, let them go

Comment #77696 by Vinelectric on October 10, 2007 at 7:50 am

Jonathan Dore: look up paragraph 7 of the GMC's good medical practise. This was last updated in2006:

http://www.gmc-uk.org/guidance/good_medical_practice/index.asp

Here's an excerpt:

You must treat your patients with respect whatever their life choices and beliefs. You must not unfairly discriminate against them by allowing your personal views* to affect adversely your professional relationship with them or the treatment you provide or arrange. You should challenge colleagues if their behaviour does not comply with this guidance.

Philip 1978: I was refferring to the public opinion against the overwhelming majority of decent law abiding muslims. The national front are growing strong round where I live. I've seen and heard with my own eyes patients threatening to kill and refuse treatment by foreigner/black/muslim doctors. That was before Glasgow and 7/7. It seems that the BNP and the terrorists are coming from the same direction. I don't think we should be complacent on either.

465. If Muslim doctors are intolerant, let them go

Comment #77692 by Vinelectric on October 10, 2007 at 7:29 am

Maybe the Times are following in the Telegraph's line and making things up. Or maybe they learned of the GMC and BMA's positions by sheer intuition.

Keep Googling my friend.

466. If Muslim doctors are intolerant, let them go

Comment #77687 by Vinelectric on October 10, 2007 at 7:07 am

Junklight

So what - we just turn a blind eye....

No, just suck up to the paranoia. Here's an excerpt from the story as it appeared on the Times:

The religious objections by students have been confirmed by the British Medical Association (BMA) and General Medical Council (GMC), which both stressed that they did not approve of such actions.

The regulating bodies are aware of these rarities and have issued the appropriate policy statements. You'd think the Telegraph would mention that or, better still, MOVE ON..!

But of course the cheap frauds can't get their hands of agitating public opinion with their nifty little piece on the angelic muslim doctor from long ago or whatever the writer was on about. Still don't know where I'm coming from? Just read the comments that followed. Nick started compiling an international list of muslim trained doctors-turned-terrorists (yeah, maybe it's not a limited phoenomenon afterall). Someone else started a full blown attack on muslims in general (nickthelight: Muslims are intolerant full stop.)

Aha, there you go, in a country troubled by muslim terrorism what can be better than fuelling up public tension?

467. If Muslim doctors are intolerant, let them go

Comment #77493 by Vinelectric on October 9, 2007 at 12:22 pm

that this is not a large group.....

A friend of mine recently went to a wine warehouse......

Other Muslim students are refusing to examine female bodies and still more, working in high street pharmacies, refuse....

This man sounds like he did some serious research on the sources before he farted out this masterpiece of journalism.

But I'm afraid the actions of this small group of Muslim medics are playing right into the hands of those who want to see Islam as a fundamentally life-hating, reality-hating theocracy.

Journalists alway give themselves away when they 'emphasize' that it is only a 'small group of Muslims' who are causing all the trouble. As employees of the NHS we hear about these oddities like other people do: fromt the loud mouths of the well meaning journalists.

Typical Daily Telegraph scum.

468. Debate between Richard Dawkins and John Lennox

Comment #76836 by Vinelectric on October 7, 2007 at 12:34 pm

Thanks for your reply, but I think you're addressing a point I never made.

I am in total agreement with you and Sam Harris on the apparently peaceful nature of the Amish community. I specifically boxed your second comment (on the greed for power) instead. Then I gave two examples on how the community organizes itself in a manner that serves nothing but its own interests. Of course I forgot to mention the racial segregation.

I would even suggest that denying their children full education and the backwardly ways in which they raise them amounts to child abuse. However that's much more subtle than murderous tendencies but you seem only impressed when the damage gets to that level.

469. Debate between Richard Dawkins and John Lennox

Comment #76758 by Vinelectric on October 7, 2007 at 6:06 am

How many people do you know who were successfully raised in the Amish religion and are now after power?

How many Amish do you know anyway?

It's still an ideology constructed on a morally corrupt book and secludes itself from interacting with manistream society. Now that is worrying in itself. They don't even join the army. Even muslims join the British and American armies. The emergence of psycopathic traits within this community is a matter of time. There just arent' enough of them yet.

I know what you're getting at but I just have little respect for the Amish.

470. Debate between Richard Dawkins and John Lennox

Comment #76757 by Vinelectric on October 7, 2007 at 5:48 am

Teratornis wrote:

We've seen what atheism can do, or rather, what atheism by itself failed to prevent.

Buddhism is strictly non theistic too. However its consequences are drastically different.

Sam Harris makes sense to me now. Atheism is such a useless tag. It says very little about one's worldview. Once you clear your mind of all supernatural persuasions you suddenly realise that, since the concept of a deity makes little sense, the term 'atheism' itself becomes something of an absurdity. Worse still, every time the term is used we automatically pay respect to to theism by characterising our worldview in its light.

So what is it exactly that atheists have in common with Stalin or Pol Pot to allow for any comparison whatsoever? Very little. RD made the point when Lennox asked him whether he 'believed in Atheism'. I hope the theists among the audience understood where RD was coming from.

Isn't it our adherence to secular humanistic values that clearly and consistently defines our moral standards? This should help keep the theists in check whenever they feel the urge to invoke the irrelevant Pol Pot/Stalin stories.

471. Teachers 'fear evolution lessons'

Comment #76344 by Vinelectric on October 5, 2007 at 3:12 pm

some teachers, fearful of entering the debate, avoid the subject totally

Rubbish. The school curricula are there to be adhered to and the teachers don't have the option not to conform to them.

472. Why Christians should take Richard Dawkins seriously

Comment #74503 by Vinelectric on September 29, 2007 at 7:22 am

3) the existence of morality (which evidence he (Dawkins) completely misunderstood � more about this, maybe, later)

In fact the undoing of any argument for God lies in the base moral level exhibited by the biblical narrative. Of course this wouldn't exclude the possibility of an evil deity. However that thing wouldn't resmeble the just and loving father preached by Christian ministers.

473. Why Christians should take Richard Dawkins seriously

Comment #74449 by Vinelectric on September 28, 2007 at 11:32 pm

...and even those theists who believe that God interferes today with the natural order believe God only very rarely does so. Dianelos

That doesn't sound right at all. You maybe referring to miracles but nevertheless we are persuaded to believe that the natural order itself is sustained by and is a manifestation of the divine wisdom. Somehow.

Question-begging is considered therefore a logical fallacy, and is a fallacy very easy to commit because a premise can entail the conclusion in a way that is not at all apparent. Dianelos

This would equally apply whenever theists ask: what could have created the universe, where do we get our consciousness from (not 'how'), who gives us our moral values....etc. The presumption is that the existence of these phoenomena is intricately linked to a driving agent. You're already suggesting an answer to these fundamental questions. That is why theism is false at its core.

Here Dianelos is quick to link consciousness with the existence of God. It doesn't, unless you smuggle your conclusion in there somehow.

Something as profound and elemental as God should readily be observable beyond any doubt. Is that too much to ask? However it is that 'Divine hiddeness' which shamelessly betrays the theistic cause.

474. Why Christians should take Richard Dawkins seriously

Comment #74145 by Vinelectric on September 27, 2007 at 11:56 am

Dianelos

Before theists concern themselves with the dreadful outcome that awaits non-believers in the afterlife, they (including yourself) should stop and reflect on one of the basic tenets of the faith viz. belief in an afterlife. In the absence of evidence it would be fair enough to label that as "wishfull thinking".

That would also apply to your protracted discussions on how god would relate to physical laws and human logic. Without presenting evidence in support of the existence of god it would be entirely inappropriate to elaborate on your views on any of its properties or attributes.

If you've addressed this issue before I apologise.

475. Do you have to read up on leprechology before disbelieving in them?

Comment #73802 by Vinelectric on September 26, 2007 at 8:19 am

Dearest Corylus....

I am forver indebted to you for that "Jesus He Knows Me" link. Phill Collins is a genuis (I'm sure it was his effort!).

Believe it or not this this the first time I've heard the song in full. The tunes struck the right chords with me many years ago when it was first released on the radio. As a devout muslim I used so much will power to suppress the urge to listen to the song. I just heard the words "jesus something something" and immediately turned away from that "contemptible christian blasphemy" !!!

Now I can enjoy my favourite band without pointless prejudices. Thank God for your messages (wink wink) !!

476. The Saudi connection that belittles Britain

Comment #73540 by Vinelectric on September 25, 2007 at 8:08 am

That's politics for you, the survival of the smartest. If it is in the interest of the British economy to do business with the Saudis then all we need is for the smart-ass big mouths to shut up and look at yet a bigger picture than their god-forsaken ideals.

Moreover, according to the reporting Channel 4 political analyst, it is in the interest of the Americans to upgrade the Saudi army lest it be overwhelmed by an Iranian strike.

By the way, the Saudis have always responded in a small way to Western pressure. Bin Laden was "excommunicated" and expelled several years ago, the violent Quranic passages removed from the school curricula and the clerics were instructed to refer to the Hamas bombers as suicidal acts and not as acts of martyrdom like the rest of the muslim world does.

You may not be impressed but that's quite a bit for the Saudis. Be optimistic. If you expect much more very soon then you should just come down to earth for a minute.

477. India to charge writer Nasreen with 'hurting Muslim feelings'

Comment #67572 by Vinelectric on September 3, 2007 at 8:41 pm

The world would be so much better off without the Muslim religion.

First, we need a new conscience raiser - "The religion of peace". Should be challenged whenever heard, with "Muslims are not peaceful.

Secondly, I think the very existance of Muslims is offensive.

There's a feeling in the muslim world that that has been the attitude all along, way before the emergence of the current wave of fudamentalism. There are several predominantely muslim countries where thousands of non-muslims/westerners are truly welcome: Malaysia, Morocco, Tunisia, Emirates, Qatar, Egypt, Jordan and other popular holiday destinations. To conclude that the millions of good people who inhabit these countries are as worthless as the irrresponsible mob who threw the flowers (!!) at the Bangladeshi writer probably says more about those who write such drivel than their victims.

478. Science and the Islamic World

Comment #62811 by Vinelectric on August 11, 2007 at 3:18 pm

Bonzai, an honest study of the history of science would stop at just recognising that the muslims have at one point contributed something useful and meaningful. Playing down the importance of that contribution is a sign of some pointless and dishonest agenda. Don't waste your time arguing with Giskard.

479. Science and the Islamic World

Comment #62809 by Vinelectric on August 11, 2007 at 3:14 pm

Fatalism and an orientation toward the past, they said, makes progress difficult and even undesirable.

Pretty muchs sums it all. The ingredients for intellectual erosion lies there; the vivid suggestion of an afterlife that makes people lose focus of their earthly existence and become obsessed with a hypothetical one.

480. Islamic Finance and Its Critics

Comment #62622 by Vinelectric on August 10, 2007 at 12:10 pm

They might as well sue the American government for its indirect ties to the extremists through their business partnerships with the Saudis.

481. Response to the God Delusion

Comment #58029 by Vinelectric on July 23, 2007 at 3:44 am

I have to say that the more I listen to Christian sermons the more I wish RD/CH would spend more time engaging with muslim apologists instead.

Whether it be the linguistic structure, numerology, quasi-scientific referrences or other arguments used to persuade people into believing the divinity of the Quran we are still some way ahead of the Judaeo-Christians. Even the theology sounds more 'intact'.

482. Response to the God Delusion

Comment #58028 by Vinelectric on July 23, 2007 at 3:34 am

On Genesis: the first two sentences have word counts as multiples of seven. But this does not hold true for the following verses and there are 143 of them.

Also the claim was made that the word 'God' was mentioned 35 times (a multiple of seven). I started counting the word 'Elohim' in Bere'shit (Genesis) but stopped counting at 37.

483. Religion beat became a test of faith

Comment #57852 by Vinelectric on July 21, 2007 at 3:50 pm

To Friend Giskard

Is faith a weakness or a mechanism to cope with hardships?

When the emotionally vulnerable endure some genuine personal tragedy then faith becomes a useful 'skill'. I mean, who hasn't ever wished really hard that there is a chance to see loved ones once again?

Of course most of us do sobre up after a while and learn to move on.

484. Why I Believe Anti-Evangelism Is Wrong

Comment #57419 by Vinelectric on July 19, 2007 at 9:29 am

The writings of RD and CH make news for the very reason that the religious establishment has traditionally remained unchallanged. If that many atheists are out there waxing evangelical then there's definitely a lot that escapes my attention nowadays.

485. Fears Grow Over 'Mega Mosque'

Comment #56819 by Vinelectric on July 17, 2007 at 12:07 pm

That's right Fanusi, let's stop Islam right in its tracks. I just can't take anymore of it. I'm so so angry. Huff Puff.

486. Fears Grow Over 'Mega Mosque'

Comment #56616 by Vinelectric on July 16, 2007 at 2:46 pm

It is obvious that the situation for muslims in the west is really touch and go, for various reasons. Agitating the all too volatile situation is the least we need for the moment. The mosque can wait. There are already enough one's out there. The money can be used to start some usefull charity project that would benefit all Britons .

487. For Muslim Extremists, Religion Matters

Comment #54420 by Vinelectric on July 7, 2007 at 2:12 am

Define "ongoing war."

Untill some sort of peace treaty is agreed to. The dhimmi tax was originally intended, not as a penalty, but as a governmental tax in return for protection. This is the origin of the word dhimmi i.e. "dependent" (with respect to personal security).

Of course things have turned out to be quite different in practise and that's the problem with religion: it just doesn't work. Of course the cleric will tell you that the fault lies with you but the system is perfect !!

488. For Muslim Extremists, Religion Matters

Comment #54358 by Vinelectric on July 6, 2007 at 1:53 pm

I have to point out to Pieter that the system of the dhimmis, as unfair as it is, proves one point: that the 'kill the unbelievers wherever you find them' has a context: during ongoing war. Please look it up.

489. For Muslim Extremists, Religion Matters

Comment #54357 by Vinelectric on July 6, 2007 at 1:51 pm

Irshad was being realistic.

The Qur'an, permeates every aspect of the middle eastern culture. It is not uncommon for christian arabs to quote quranic verses in formal speech and even to hang some verses in their shops to ward off the 'evil eye'. The book, despite its outdated concepts, is a literary treasure. To a culture that thrives on poetry and prose it is indespensible no matter what some godless westerner may make of it.

Muslim communities in the west will sooner or later feel the pressing urge to reconsider their ideologies but I have no reason to believe that the bulk of the muslim population in the middle east would be interested.

490. Don't Mince Words: The London Car-Bomb Plot Was Designed to Kill Women

Comment #54143 by Vinelectric on July 5, 2007 at 3:29 pm

Fanusi are you just winding me up? Otherwise, too many basic concepts need to be cleared up but I don't have the patience to write chapters like you do:

Yemen: shia subjugated? No. This sect is the only among shias who would accept the authority of the most religiously knowledgable person even if he was sunni.

Lebanon: shia subjugated? No, check out Hezbollah's scandalous involvement in the country's politics.

Sudan: I would not be dumb enough to suggest that a change in borders would create that descrepancy in precentages. I asked you to forget about the satistics because the country has not existed in its current form untill 1956. True that the borders overall have sort of remained similar but the huge southern region with its nilotic animist/christian population was a secluded self governing region untill the early 50s.

Talk about sudan 1910 vs now is simply rubbish.

Sunni Shia schism

agreed that the emergence of the shia was a bloody event (I mean literally) but don't lose focus of our discussion we were talking about the shia/sunnis today. Sorry but I skipped through most of the last post for this reason.

On 9:29
This is the sort of verse the hate preachers want to shout out all the time. It is the equivalent of an antisemite reiterating how the jewish book denigrates goyims (i.e pretty much everyone else but the jews). Even I find this unacceptable. There's too much evil in most religious books that is best kept brushed under the carpet. That's more realistic than expecting everyone to embrace atheism.

What if you look at the two verses together. There you go: a recipe for moderation and sense is made of the troublesome texts. For God's sake let us do what we can to calm things down. I doubt that you have the wisdom to heed what I'm suggesting. Keep vomiting out your toxins till you expire. Take the rest of the terrorsit minded species with you.

491. Don't Mince Words: The London Car-Bomb Plot Was Designed to Kill Women

Comment #54114 by Vinelectric on July 5, 2007 at 12:11 pm

Fanusi Khiyal wrote

This kind of cheap, off-the-shelf anti-Americanism is masturbatory in nature

Still calles me intellectual offal. Sorry but you don't come across as anything better.

1. On blacks and muslims:
Sudan: you claim 10% arabs in 1910, 50% arabs today. Suprise surprise: The country's formal boundaries were not finalized till the 1950s. Take your rubbish statistics elsewhere.

2. On Jews and Kaffirs.
quran chapter 60 verses 8 and 9 lay down the fundamental rule: unless they're hostile to you there's no reason why you shouldn't be kind to them. Sam Harris's list is true but misleading. Context is important.

3. On Shia/Sunni coexistence.

Islam has indeed practically decayed in many countries. The rule however is peacefull coexistence not the exception. Even in Iraq, untill four years ago the two communities coexisted peacefully.

And by the way I've always made some effort to answer your hundred thousand points so stop parroting lies. Liar Liar.

492. At a Theater Near You ...

Comment #53972 by Vinelectric on July 4, 2007 at 1:51 pm

Bonzai:
Problem is that the same Islamic ideolgoy motivates others to charity and other humane activities. Religion is tactically used by the clerics as a tool to manipulate the emotionally charged angry members of society for some political gain and for some fundamentally political grievance. Islamic fundamentalists have existed for many years yet active terrorism has surfaced relatively late.

The Islamic model does relatively well in times of economic health (Andalusia, modern Gulf countries). Historically, hostile Islamic activity was almost invariably linked to colonial exapnsion of its empire. If Islam on its own has the power to persuade its members to self destruct for no reason then the muslim community would have disappreard off the face of the earth centuries ago.

493. Don't Mince Words: The London Car-Bomb Plot Was Designed to Kill Women

Comment #53913 by Vinelectric on July 4, 2007 at 5:48 am

It seems that I'll have to clean up after Fanusi Khiyal once more.

1. On Shia Vs Muslim in Iraq:

Throw any underdevloped country into anarchy and see for yourself whether the ethnic tensions explode into genocide sooner or later. Sunni-Shia intermarriage is commonplace among pre-war Iraqis so can you use simple logic to figure out why the rift has suddenly become so manifest only after the American forces wrecked the already crippled country?

I can not forgive you for ignoring the numerous shia and sunni communities throught the muslim world who coexist peacefully.

2. Muslims hunting Jews and blacks in Africa?

Jews: huge well established community in Morocco. The only threat is that from muslim extremists. The Islamic version of people like you. Charged up, mad, angry hate-preachers.

Blacks: you mean Darfur? Both parties are as black as any african can be. This is a battle for resources in an impoverished land that has gone out of control. The so called Janjaweed are arabic speaking black africans.

3. Muslims killing Hindus in India?

I am not informed on the Indian matter. I'll dig it up but I bet it will be some other exaggerated bullshit.

494. Nato accuses Taliban of using children in suicide missions

Comment #53782 by Vinelectric on July 3, 2007 at 5:54 am

And what, prey, have the Palestinian Moslems been doing to every poor sod who wasn't Moslem they could get their hands on for the last few centuries?

I'm sorry but can you back this up? Or are you the type that likes to imagine things. The answer is: nothing unusual and that's why Jewish communities have flourished in many Arab and Muslim countries (Morocco, Yemenites..etc).

If you mean the Palestenian muslims specifically: They were waiting for your zionist loopys to come steal their lands because they lived in them some millenium ago and because some silly old book incites them with intoxicating fury to claim some pathetic piece of desert for their own. At all costs even if it's the disgusting practise of exploiting the misery of european jews under Hitler.

Anti-zionism = anti-semitism my ass. Shame on you.

The alternative to controlled ruthlessness is not no ruthlessness, but _uncontrolled_ ruthlessness.The idea that 'violence just begets violence' is unmitigated bullshit

Shit! What perverted mentality!!!

If I am an 'angry crackhead' then so are Sun Tzu, Niccolo Macchiavelli, Thucydides, Pericles, George Orwell and Lee Harris I am proud to stand among such men.

No you don't. You stand with the Hamas crackheads, in a different guise but the same extremist mentality. Annihiliate each other and let the world live in peace.

You have not answered a single point, merely smeared away.

Right, discussion with you is a waste of time and an insufferable irritation. Unwind yourself. No common ground appears possible. Let's move on to another interesting post, angry zionboy.

495. Nato accuses Taliban of using children in suicide missions

Comment #53440 by Vinelectric on July 1, 2007 at 1:29 pm

Ms/Mr Khiyal

Thanks for your infuriated and one sided view on the conflict.

Why would the moral responsibility of any massacre lie with anyone else but the murderer? Sorry but that is some twisted logic.

Judging by your furious tone, you too seem like the type of person who would consider blowing themselves up if your family is butchered and your possessions removed for the pleasure of some lunatic zionist settler. I don't know what planet the zionist sympathizers come from but in what way dd you expect the palestenians (muslim and christian) to react to your excesses. Violence begets violence and that is the sad situation at the moment. I sitll feel there is room for peace if we keep angry crackheads like you from agitating the already too volatile situation.

Mr King was absolutely wrong on equating anti zionsim with anti semitism. Among the orthodoxy of Jewish Rabbis are anti-zionists and among my personal friends and mentors are Israeli Jews.

496. Nato accuses Taliban of using children in suicide missions

Comment #53418 by Vinelectric on July 1, 2007 at 11:26 am

anyone who thinks the Palestinians are murderous scum just because of Israel

Yeah they were doing it long before the British raped the geography of the middle east with the zionist bastard, aka the state of Israel. Long before the religious and secular fanatic murderous Haggana thugs started terrorising the local population and driving thousands of locals out of their homelands...

should find out what they did to the Maronite Christians in the Lebanese civil war - the same Maronite Christians that gave them refuge

Oh I see. Is that why the maronite militias surrounded the defenseless refugees in their camps and massacred 3,500 of them at once at Sabra and Chatilla?

497. Yes, the universe looks like a fix. But that doesn't mean that a god fixed it

Comment #53214 by Vinelectric on June 30, 2007 at 6:14 am

steve99

Stegner's views may not conform with the consensus but he quotes several authors that have all reached similar conclusions independently. It would be hard to discredit either position and to be honest it would be a bit pointless trying to do this in the first place. The universe simply couldn't be any other way than what it is.

498. Yes, the universe looks like a fix. But that doesn't mean that a god fixed it

Comment #53204 by Vinelectric on June 30, 2007 at 4:39 am

GBG

How can anyone confidently make a statement about a necessary existence?

In the abscence of direct empirical evidence for the presumed originator of material existence how can anyone go one step further and make a double assumption:

1. It exists.
2. It is uncaused.

This could well be an excercise in self deception that we could all do well without.

499. Yes, the universe looks like a fix. But that doesn't mean that a god fixed it

Comment #53133 by Vinelectric on June 29, 2007 at 3:34 pm

Roll

Vic Stegner (Failed Hypothesis and the Comprehensible Cosmos) addresses this point quite well. There's room for fiddling with the knobs and still ending up with a viable universe.

500. Bill O'Reilly and Kirk Cameron on Atheism

Comment #51297 by Vinelectric on June 22, 2007 at 8:35 am

Transitional forms:
what about Platypi?