451. Richard Dawkins and Alister McGrath

Comment #48684 by Enlightenme.. on June 8, 2007 at 5:33 pm

"Actually, most Christians believe because that is what they were told by their parents"

Oh yeah, I didn't leave home till I was 35 !

452. Richard Dawkins and Alister McGrath

Comment #48680 by Enlightenme.. on June 8, 2007 at 5:28 pm

"You can't claim that books by Marx and Mao are treated like any kind of dogma by atheists. They are works about different political systems"

Oh, so now we're into NOMA territory!

453. Richard Dawkins and Alister McGrath

Comment #48673 by Enlightenme.. on June 8, 2007 at 5:17 pm

"However, in reality what unites non-theists/atheists is their focus on evidential beliefs and using the scientific method and the body of scientific knowledge as tools and means to keep humanity advancing and socially evolving, not our lacking belief in a non-evidential belief of the religious genre.

Happily, I have lived--and still do--in a very secular community for about 10 years, and nobody talks about atheism. We focus on evidential beliefs. PERIOD. I wish that for the entire world someday."

Aw come on, you just lifted this from that 'atheist manifesto' book surely (haven't read it yet)

454. Richard Dawkins and Alister McGrath

Comment #48669 by Enlightenme.. on June 8, 2007 at 5:12 pm

"...called Stalinism or Communism"

Scientism ?

455. Richard Dawkins and Alister McGrath

Comment #48664 by Enlightenme.. on June 8, 2007 at 5:09 pm

but sometimes I hear stuff...

Memes, I think they were.

456. Richard Dawkins and Alister McGrath

Comment #48662 by Enlightenme.. on June 8, 2007 at 5:08 pm

"Does any non-theist reading this thread regard Zwingli as an enemy of the state."

If anyone does, are they about to fess up, d'you think ?

457. Richard Dawkins and Alister McGrath

Comment #48657 by Enlightenme.. on June 8, 2007 at 4:57 pm

Thanks Baeoz,
'group think', 'dogma'
Does one have to be deluded to be susceptible to such things - I'm at heart a socialist, but in my head a secular/democrat/libertarian/capitalist &c &c, but sometimes I hear stuff...

458. Richard Dawkins and Alister McGrath

Comment #48654 by Enlightenme.. on June 8, 2007 at 4:51 pm

"will try harder!"
Thanks

"...the problem of getting organized"

"...cohesive group"

Somewhere in this area is my problem.

459. Richard Dawkins and Alister McGrath

Comment #48652 by Enlightenme.. on June 8, 2007 at 4:43 pm

^OK (this once)
I think there are some atheists that need to read Animal farm as well, thats all I'm saying (even Hitchens could probably do with a re-read (sorry if that's badly put - I'm tired now))

460. Richard Dawkins and Alister McGrath

Comment #48643 by Enlightenme.. on June 8, 2007 at 4:29 pm

^^ One tries to conceive of a man, who gathers votes based on a doctrine that science and reason are the best way to achieve progress (+fill in the blanks)...

..."there would be no culture from which extremists could arise"

erm, sure?

461. Richard Dawkins and Alister McGrath

Comment #48631 by Enlightenme.. on June 8, 2007 at 4:08 pm

"USA_Limey: The writers of the bible books etc were writing thousands of years ago in greek, hebrew etc, and to people in rather different stuations to our own. What we think God inspired them to write won't all be relevant to us today.

Oh yes, the tower of babel stuff, I forgot that.

462. Richard Dawkins and Alister McGrath

Comment #48629 by Enlightenme.. on June 8, 2007 at 4:02 pm

Re: Post #343 by Newatheist.

"... Now, if skulls were empty of matter I for one would be listening to you much more intently."

That was worth wading through treacle for, thanks Newatheist, enjoyed your whole post [/sycophantic backslap]

463. Protesting the Creation Museum

Comment #48586 by Enlightenme.. on June 8, 2007 at 1:18 pm

History gets properly recorded now, surely even 'normal' theists should be getting extremely embarrassed about what future history books record of this period in the land of the founding fathers.
Or is this some kinda plan to breed a generation of holy-warriors?

464. In Saudi Arabia, a view from behind the veil

Comment #48568 by Enlightenme.. on June 8, 2007 at 12:05 pm

^^ I thought that paternalism was almost universal in anthropology, not just deserts?

rtambree, agree with your post, I certainly did mean present tense (hence is) e.g. - full gay liberation is still in it's infancy.

Still think this should be in the top articles list.

465. In Saudi Arabia, a view from behind the veil

Comment #48440 by Enlightenme.. on June 8, 2007 at 1:24 am

This article should be in the top list, scary stuff.

The exchange #'s 2,3 & 4 made me realise that this article isn't really about religion at one level, whilst also pointing out it's power as an instrument of chauvinist oppression.

How much would things change in this society if you magic'ed it away, the time from the enlightenment to full liberation in the west is depressingly long isn't it.

@rtambree, I think comment 4 could have done with more words, it looks a bit cold & sarcy!

466. Protesting the Creation Museum

Comment #48400 by Enlightenme.. on June 7, 2007 at 6:18 pm

1969..One small step
2007..One giant leap..back to th f'kn dark ages.

467. Richard Dawkins and Alister McGrath

Comment #48351 by Enlightenme.. on June 7, 2007 at 2:37 pm

Danielos, will it help you if we take the blasphemy challenge, and dispense with equivocation, we're all adults here.

468. Hamas Kindergarten Graduation Ceremony

Comment #47573 by Enlightenme.. on June 5, 2007 at 2:32 am

#6 Zaphod,

"Terrible. This can't be set at the foot of religion only. Western foreign policy hasn't helped this region."

That's a novel point of view Zaphod, you're not suggesting the video you've just watched is our fault, are you?

What change in Western foreign policy do you suggest, and which 'region' are you referring to?

469. Richard Dawkins and Alister McGrath

Comment #47267 by Enlightenme.. on June 3, 2007 at 8:21 pm

What I wanna know is why this man looked exactly the same to me as Ted Haggard in the "if I had only read the same books as you... but please, don't be arrogant" bit.

I've read the earlier posts about non-relevance of the body language with his words, but I disagree - the eyebrows going up & down, forehead creasing, whole iris visible - what is this? Is it what cognitive dissonance looks like? Or something even more sinister?

470. Beggars belief: Robin McKie on The God Delusion

Comment #47147 by Enlightenme.. on June 3, 2007 at 6:37 am

^ 25 Yorker, You are referring to the herding cats problem, but I'm not sure I want to be a member of your political lobby-group, as it could all too easily go all Animal farm on us.

Maybe your second paragraph refers to a Neo-con conspiracy all along - plan A - see if we can bomb them into a democracy - plan B - the old divide and rule, this morning on the Dateline London programme, there was a woman saying it's already too late for Iraq not to break up Yugoslavia-style.

But I think, as the musketeers are saying, that the zeitgeist has changed, the tide is now turning it seems in America so far, let's hope in other cultures some time soon.

471. Beggars belief: Robin McKie on The God Delusion

Comment #47141 by Enlightenme.. on June 3, 2007 at 5:57 am

^#21 Thanks baal, ;)
You're not going to nominate me for that 666 reasons for god's existence page are you?

Oops yes, and I've just confirmed my belief in Zeus and Apollo too! I must take RD's advice and rid myself of this deference!

I'm gonna have to be more careful, perhaps doing about 20 years at seminary school before being allowed to say stuff, like they keep saying about Richard (re; the courtiers complaint stuff)

472. Beggars belief: Robin McKie on The God Delusion

Comment #47136 by Enlightenme.. on June 3, 2007 at 5:30 am

Thanks Luthien, something else else to stick in my favourites, I notice they're a bit negative - loads and loads against things, but only 3 for something - oh well.

There's one against floods, but there's one for rain, (obviously I was vainly looking for contradiction/imperfection) perhaps we could petition the vatican that the guy against floods could also be made the one against perpetuating myths of floods.

Anyway, on first look I choose another one who's 'for' something;

http://www.catholic-forum.com/saints/mary0002.htm

473. Beggars belief: Robin McKie on The God Delusion

Comment #47130 by Enlightenme.. on June 3, 2007 at 4:35 am

An interesting aside - I dragdropped amen to my google toolbar, intending to goto wiki, the google excerpt of wiki has a bit about amen originating from Amon, the egyptian sun-god!

I couldn't be bothered to go check out the veracity of that, further than clicking the wiki page, where I then couldn't see it, how's that work? is somebody having a bit of fun. I'm left with the fanciful notion that Christians are offering praise to Amon at the end of every prayer! They may be aAppoloists and aZeusists, but they accidently left one in.

474. Beggars belief: Robin McKie on The God Delusion

Comment #47124 by Enlightenme.. on June 3, 2007 at 4:16 am

I think probably the author is just being light-hearted in the use of ungodly, or maybe poking a bit of fun at people who wear their 'ungodliness' a bit too loudly, and the use of amen is probably just an apt use of the word in it's 'amen to that' sense.

475. The Courtier's Reply

Comment #47114 by Enlightenme.. on June 3, 2007 at 3:32 am

^ A big thank you to Waterstones though, for putting paperback TGD at half price last week, I happened past the Bristol store on wednesday (last day of special offer), the sales asst told me I was lucky, as there wasn't many left!

476. What I Think About Evolution

Comment #46795 by Enlightenme.. on June 1, 2007 at 4:28 pm

@ comment 114 by Hip_priest.
Thanks for the link, funny stuff.
I just come over all Dr Strangelove again when I saw this one;

"I think this article illustrates quite well why Communism failed.

The New York Times overestimates the power of the Socialist Brainwashing it has conducted on its readership. The Soviet Union imploded due to the reality of the Gospel penetrating the State Propaghanda. The New York Times has arrogantly and foolishly given its own pages over to Brownback to proclaim the teachings of Jesus on the false teachings of the Communistic Philosophy of Evolutionism.

Don't be surprised if New Yorkers begin turning away from Godless Marxism and embracing Christian Capitalism like the Soviet Masses did. When people are shown the Light of Biblical Truth the sham that is Secular Humanism collapses."

^Comment by America4Americans — May 31, 2007

W.t.f is going on in America?

477. What I Think About Evolution

Comment #46608 by Enlightenme.. on May 31, 2007 at 7:41 pm

I came over all Dr Strangelove when I saw;
"Faith seeks to purify reason"

This guy must drink grain alcohol and rainwater I reckon just in case commie atheists are flouridating the water.

And probably denies women his precious bodily fluids too.

478. Dawkins at the Hay Festival

Comment #46146 by Enlightenme.. on May 30, 2007 at 11:34 am

Anyway - I still don't think some people on here have got what I'm saying;

That is, I think we are deluding ourselves by believing these people really are believers.

Professing belief just isn't the same thing - far from it, and there are plenty of 'good' reasons for turning a blind eye to the emporer's nakedness.

Ask yourself, how many elementary-schooled people do you think 'don't get' the simple argument from geography which occurs to us all around age 10?

We (the royal) are professing a false belief (I believe!)

How many of those 19 men do you believe really were deluded?

479. Dawkins at the Hay Festival

Comment #46142 by Enlightenme.. on May 30, 2007 at 11:11 am

@ comment 46117 by Jiten;
"Why does RD shy away from calling the Archbishop deluded?"

If you think about it, what he is (not) saying could be taken to be much ruder, the bish could perhaps be forgiven if he was deluded, if not then he is an apologist for 'the big deception' of faith - the child abusers, (erm -pertaining to their minds, that is) genital mutilators, etc etc - it puts him in that company.

480. Dawkins at the Hay Festival

Comment #45987 by Enlightenme.. on May 30, 2007 at 1:07 am

The big question I think is; Were the 19 hijacker's truly acting under this percieved delusion, or were they - as people keep positing that the tamil tigers are - acting under another delusion - that they were sacrificing themselves in the best interests of 'their' people.

I also think that the rise of profession of belief in good 'ol U.S.A is a sort of not facing up to guilt effect, ironically from the unjust war. I also think it's just that - a profession of belief only, which will hopefully wane after the passing of the Bush administration.

481. The Komodo Dragon's Tale

Comment #44175 by Enlightenme.. on May 23, 2007 at 2:25 pm

Richard mentions reptilian sex selection by temperature, could the K-T boundary comet have been a trigger rather than a full explanation?

Would sudden temperature instability cause Dino's to default to selfing, leading to shrinking of gene-pool, leading to opportunity for mammals?

482. Shark virgin birth mystery is solved

Comment #44123 by Enlightenme.. on May 23, 2007 at 10:56 am

I do hope the scientists left the deceased shark in the tank for 3 or 4 days...just in case.

483. Scientists Draw Link Between Morality And Brain's Wiring

Comment #43574 by Enlightenme.. on May 22, 2007 at 3:53 am

I imagine somebody adressing this subject with a book titled; The 'good' delusion, if that's legal!

484. An ecumenical contempt for religion

Comment #38417 by Enlightenme.. on May 8, 2007 at 3:51 am

^ Should have said as well, what counts, when regarding this sort of deceptive 'faith' is calling it what it is - an ideal, not the idea.

485. An ecumenical contempt for religion

Comment #38413 by Enlightenme.. on May 8, 2007 at 3:44 am

@comment 38323 by Bookman,
Bush is an American president, therefore he has to play the game of appearing to 'believe'.
Do you really this he's gullible enough to actually be a 'true believer', if so, then I suggest you're the gullible one - and a mixed blessing to the 'cause'!

486. An atheist's call to arms

Comment #36631 by Enlightenme.. on May 1, 2007 at 8:16 pm

^On the contrary, watch the excellent Jonathan Miller series "A brief history of disbelief" to appreciate the enormous debt we owe to many brave people who dared challenge what Hitchens labelled 'the origin of authoritarianism'.
I'm saying the birth of the movement dates back past Epicuris, probably to the unknown's who challenged the village witch-doctor!