Comments by Geoff

Comment #139297 by Geoff on March 5, 2008 at 2:11 pm

Some people seem to think that there is no real problem (sometimes I think that too).

Some people (i.e. me!) get a headache when they try to follow all the arguments, and just look for an easier topic to ramble on about.

Oh yeah...fleabytes...I remember....

I was going to pick D.R. up on some of his points from the early 3xxx's, but I've forgotten what they were now. Something about Paula & Richard not being related, for one.

452. What's the Point of the Archbishop of Canterbury?

Comment #139294 by Geoff on March 5, 2008 at 2:05 pm

Indeed, Duff, but they and their predecessors created the segment in the first place, and have a vested interest in keeping them simple.
Classic marketing ploy: first create the need...

453. The Salamander's Tale

Comment #139253 by Geoff on March 5, 2008 at 11:52 am

Mitchell, I agree, I wasn't trying to generalise about atheists so much as showing that there are many exceptions to wooter's generalisation that we all fear death.

The death is indeed a very deep fear for atheist people who think that they will be gone after they die.

Apologies for not expressing myself clearly; I do that a lot!

What I really fear is growing so old that I lose many of my physical & mental functions - I'm watching it happen to my mum at present, with incipient Alzheimer's.
The "naked, sweaty & covered with vaginal fluid" option would be my choice, too! But not yet; too much left undone (including seeing this thread get to at least 10k).

EDIT: I didn't mean this thread, I meant "Fleabytes", of course! So many posts, so little time!

454. Fleabytes

Comment #139249 by Geoff on March 5, 2008 at 11:38 am

I'm reminded of the film "Strange Days".

455. The Salamander's Tale

Comment #139236 by Geoff on March 5, 2008 at 10:58 am

288. Comment #139210 by Mitchell Gilks

Speak for youself Geoff. I'm scared shitless of dying. Nothing scars me more, I'd take hell in a second over oblivion, at least I get to exist.

Scared of dying, yes; of death, no. Of course, I'm mainly speaking for myself, yes, but there's quite a long discussion here about it:

http://richarddawkins.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=16734

No poll, but a quick scan of 150 posts shows most sharing my view.

456. The Salamander's Tale

Comment #139231 by Geoff on March 5, 2008 at 10:45 am

al-rawandi:

1) You are the stupidest person we have ever met and you simply are unable to comprehend the answers.
2) You refuse to look objectively at the information.

I will go with the second because I am feeling quite nice this morning, in anticipation of a great weekend. So your inability to analyze this information is due to your unwillingness to understand.

Sorry, but I don't think that's a good enough reason. All the evidence points to 1) being true.

457. The Salamander's Tale

Comment #139198 by Geoff on March 5, 2008 at 9:32 am

The death is indeed a very deep fear for atheist people who think that they will be gone after they die.

No it isn't. Read that Mark Twain quote again. We were dead, now we're alive, in the future we'll be dead again. That's it.
Some may worry about the process of aging, the progress towards death - the pain & suffering etc, but the state of being dead? Nope.

An Ceiling Cat sayed, Beholdt, teh good enouf for releaze as version 0.8a. kthxbai.

458. The Salamander's Tale

Comment #139086 by Geoff on March 5, 2008 at 5:37 am

epeeist:

They've been complaining for a while about the lack of new "chew toys". Just trying to help!

459. Church exhumes Padre Pio

Comment #138435 by Geoff on March 4, 2008 at 10:13 am

I can't help it, the "dead parrot sketch" just won't get out of my mind.

460. The Salamander's Tale

Comment #138205 by Geoff on March 4, 2008 at 4:03 am

wooter: pop over to the forums (yeah, "fora", I know, I'm trying to keep it simple for him).

Stat a new thread on here:
http://www.richarddawkins.net/forum/viewforum.php?f=46

You'll be made to feel very welcome.

461. Please Call Earth. We Still Haven't Found You.

Comment #138194 by Geoff on March 4, 2008 at 3:42 am

VadJong:

That was Arthur C. Clarke's "The Star". Excellent short story (as were all of his stories!). I think they made a "Twilight Zone" episode from it, too.

462. US Treaty with Tripoli

Comment #138024 by Geoff on March 3, 2008 at 6:50 pm

I have to admit to being on the side of the pedants here (as Steve will no doubt remember?).

I was going to comment on annabanana's use of tautology in her post #377, but I won't, since the word "just", in that context, is slightly ambiguous...and anyway I'm far too polite...

463. Please Call Earth. We Still Haven't Found You.

Comment #138012 by Geoff on March 3, 2008 at 6:34 pm

http://richarddawkins.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=37745

464. Fleabytes

Comment #138009 by Geoff on March 3, 2008 at 6:29 pm

Cartomancer:

Do I have to search out someone who believes the twelfth century never happened every time I give a paper on my thesis?

Well, you're the one claiming that the 12th century existed, so the burden of proof would appear to be on you...

;)

465. Richard Dawkins' US Tour begins this week

Comment #138001 by Geoff on March 3, 2008 at 6:13 pm

Looking forward to seeing the videos!

466. Fleabytes

Comment #137976 by Geoff on March 3, 2008 at 5:11 pm

Brian: Excellent! Respect!

I seem to have missed the mention of your blog though...

467. Fleas on the Horizon: In Defense of God

Comment #137974 by Geoff on March 3, 2008 at 5:06 pm

Philip Law, academic editor and U.K./E.U. publishing director for Westminster John Knox, sought out John Haught, professor of science and religion at Georgetown University, to write God and the New Atheism, published in December. "As far as I know," Law says, "there have not been any credible responses to all of these 'new atheists.'"

Well, he got that right.

468. Fleabytes

Comment #137968 by Geoff on March 3, 2008 at 4:59 pm

Every time I come back to this thread, more jewels have appeared! Lost track of most of them, but Doc B's two treasures are safely on my HD. I got very confused with all the claimants for P3k though. Were there some tactical deletions? And did I miss the party?
I agree with Frankus, this site keeps much, too, with way to up.

469. US Treaty with Tripoli

Comment #137747 by Geoff on March 3, 2008 at 12:36 pm

Diacanu:

...I don't have a beef against the deer.

I've got nothing to say, I just wanted to see that phrase on screen again.

470. Survey shows Non-Religious Outnumber Those of Every Single Faith (But One)

Comment #137727 by Geoff on March 3, 2008 at 12:07 pm

SeaLife #9:

Haven't seen a detailed breakdown, but I suspect most have actually only changed from one "flavour" of, say, Christianity, to another; catholic to protestant for example.
Micro- rather than macro-evolution...

471. Fleabytes

Comment #137241 by Geoff on March 2, 2008 at 2:50 pm

kaiserkriss:

...a cock and bull story that is swallowed hook line and sinker.

That's a particularly splendid metaphor!

472. Fleabytes

Comment #137236 by Geoff on March 2, 2008 at 2:47 pm

Paula, you beat me to it with the maths comment...!

Back to the literal nature of the bible, the question "which bible" is always a good one:

http://www.tyndale.cam.ac.uk/scriptures/

473. Fleabytes

Comment #137227 by Geoff on March 2, 2008 at 2:32 pm

D'Arcy:
apropos a question I asked you some time ago (and apologies for going off-topic in a thread that has stayed so well on-topic for so VERY long...!)

Got the T-shirt!

http://www.badgrafix.com/bgStore/infidel.html

474. US Treaty with Tripoli

Comment #137171 by Geoff on March 2, 2008 at 1:19 pm

AtheistJon:

No worries! I feel more like a member of the audience shouting out the occasional question.

Still unanswered, BTW... ;)

475. America: slouching towards the Enlightenment

Comment #137165 by Geoff on March 2, 2008 at 1:10 pm

30. Comment #135673 by rod-the-farmer

Geoff you are really bad.

Thank you! I do try!

476. US Treaty with Tripoli

Comment #137163 by Geoff on March 2, 2008 at 1:05 pm

AtheistJon:

Please show me where I was "bullying". I've only made 3 or 4 posts to this thread, all of which were unfailingly polite, IMO.

477. US Treaty with Tripoli

Comment #137063 by Geoff on March 2, 2008 at 9:11 am

AtheistJon #297

Then again, I also don't see where scooternyc was being dogmatic.

I pointed out a couple of examples in my post #187. He still hasn't addressed them.

478. Rock-Bottom Loser Entertaining Offers From Several Religions

Comment #136983 by Geoff on March 2, 2008 at 4:51 am

"You're going to have to do better than eternal life," Pritchard added. "Everyone's offering that."

ROFL!

479. The Salamander's Tale

Comment #136977 by Geoff on March 2, 2008 at 4:47 am

REv:

Popping briefly back to Harun Yahya, do you remember this bit of the Atlas of Creation?

http://forbiddenmusic.wordpress.com/2008/01/09/atlas-of-creation-by-harun-yahya/

"Most of the book is juxtapositions of bad pictures of fossils with bad pictures of conordinal living things (fossil fern, living fern; fossil bunny, living bunny; fossil fly, living fly) alongside the erroneous claim that there are no differences between the extinct and extant forms. Anyway, here's his example of a living caddisfly:
[pic]
It's a fishing lure. He stole the image from Graham Owen."

480. Fleabytes

Comment #136797 by Geoff on March 1, 2008 at 5:20 pm

http://www.holysmoke.org/sdhok/theomec.htm

481. Fleabytes

Comment #136691 by Geoff on March 1, 2008 at 3:12 pm

Steve Zara #2xxx(ages ago, the one about the miracles!)

I do believe you've formulated the first law of theodynamics.

I'm really struggling to keep up with this thread - any evidence yet?

Paula: your 'click on "GOD HIMSELF"' comment; coffee>nose>keyboard. Again!

482. Fleabytes

Comment #136423 by Geoff on March 1, 2008 at 6:42 am

Comment #136313 by Diacanu

I am the God of thread killers.

Bow to me faithfully.

B-)

Some threads don't die that easily!

483. US Treaty with Tripoli

Comment #136420 by Geoff on March 1, 2008 at 6:12 am

scooternyc:

As I said earlier, I'm following this debate as a neutral, but I have to say I don't think you make your point.

A weapon isn't a weapon of death without the intent of use by the individual.

This statement doesn't advance your case; you'd have to compare the deliberate deaths for cars/stairs/guns for that. Again, as Ashton Black said, it comes down to primary purpose.
Following on from that:

The primary purpose of personal gun ownership is protection...

I think you need to provide some justification for that premise. I suspect (admittedly without the statistics) that most guns are held for the purpose of committing crime. Whatever, the burden of proof would seem to be on you.

To quote fully that last:

The primary purpose of personal gun ownership is protection - sometimes bad things happen.

The primary purpose of alcohol is enjoyment - sometimes bad things happen.

The primary purpose of a car is transportation - sometimes bad things happen.

That argument only applies to accidental deaths.

(still pretty much on the fence - but following the debate with interest)

EDIT: "protection", even leaving out al-rawandi's hunting use, still needs backing up.

484. US Treaty with Tripoli

Comment #136124 by Geoff on February 29, 2008 at 1:19 pm

I've particularly enjoyed this thread, as something of a neutral on the subject of gun control, simply because of the way it's been conducted.
Compare the style (rather than the content) of the debate with any of the threads involving, say, a Weeflea or a wooter.

If any of you want a (subjective) result to the debate (in terms of persuading a "fence-sitter"), here's my input.

I'd have said, if asked, at the start, that I was probably 60/40 in favour of guns. I have fired target rifles during my Air Training Corps days (both .22 single shot and .303 SLR), so I certainly don't have the (dare I say "irrational"?) fear of them that, say, Cartomancer does - except if one was pointed at me!

Having said that, I'd hate to live in a country like the US, where gun ownership is so common. I've never actually seen a civilian carrying a gun (in the UK) outside of a shooting range.

The cultural context is very important; I certainly wouldn't want the UK to become more relaxed regarding the issue, but if I was living in the States I think I might very well come to the opposite conclusion (simply because, as has been mentioned, guns are already very much part of their culture).

My personal views have changed as result of this debate, to the extent that, for the UK, I'd probably now consider myself 60/40 against guns.

In one sense, it's a microcosmic "arms race", which I wouldn't want to escalate over here. In the US, the impression I get is closer to Mutual Assured Destruction.

485. Fleabytes

Comment #136029 by Geoff on February 29, 2008 at 12:32 pm

Quetz, back in the 1950's, you said:

Today he came back, promising a brief stay. And he's still around. He's going to bury us with evidence any moment now. You wait and see.

I see that as a failed prediction...

Having skimmed through the latest 500 or so posts since I was last on, one thing in particular stands out: we need Diacanu's input!

Oh, and Paula: congrats on P2k, does your Tesco have a clothes department?

OK...carry on....

486. Evolving Mistakes

Comment #135530 by Geoff on February 29, 2008 at 4:20 am

Quetzalcoatl #24:

Yep I do like the New Scientist site, I also like this one:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/

Steve, have you deleted some of your posts from this thread? I'm confused (not an unusual ocurrence...)

487. Dispatches: Holy Offensive

Comment #135519 by Geoff on February 29, 2008 at 4:02 am

Juxtamonkey: Three "must visits" while in England:-

The Natural History Museum
The Science Museum
Jennings brewery (300 miles from London, but worth the trip!)

488. America: slouching towards the Enlightenment

Comment #135235 by Geoff on February 28, 2008 at 6:29 pm

No category for pastafarians? Maybe they're the "religious unaffusilliated?

489. Taking evidence seriously

Comment #135223 by Geoff on February 28, 2008 at 6:19 pm

agg #18 it definitely works. I merely thought about looking at their website and almost immediately felt better!

I wouldn't be a bit surprised if they actually did get orders, though.

490. Dispatches: Holy Offensive

Comment #135216 by Geoff on February 28, 2008 at 6:10 pm

I'm surprised Ayaan didn't get a mention in the Dutch segment.

491. Earth's Final Sunset Predicted

Comment #135193 by Geoff on February 28, 2008 at 5:13 pm

I really want to say "Don't Panic!", but I'll resist the temptation.

492. Sea reptile is biggest on record

Comment #135190 by Geoff on February 28, 2008 at 5:09 pm

I didn't know Svalbard existed! I thought it was just a location from the "Golden Compass", where the armoured polar bears lived.

493. Fleabytes

Comment #134943 by Geoff on February 28, 2008 at 11:14 am

PMurdock:

Only on this thread, which the weeflea seems determined to corrupt.

Take a look at some of the other articles.

494. Evolving Mistakes

Comment #134939 by Geoff on February 28, 2008 at 11:08 am

Yeah, well, I like the porn as well....

But yes, this site is very special, as are all the links down the left. Pharyngula is another of my favourites (that I only found out about from TGD, as I did with this one).

495. Evolving Mistakes

Comment #134935 by Geoff on February 28, 2008 at 11:01 am

My natural modesty! I'll try not to let it show again!

Slightly more seriously, I can't think of anyone in my "real life" circle of acquaintances with whom I could have such varied and enlightening (and often somewhat bizarre!) conversations. I love the internet for that kind of thing (as well as for resources like the eol); I do wish it had been around when I was younger.

496. Interview with Richard Dawkins

Comment #134930 by Geoff on February 28, 2008 at 10:56 am

Wwelcome, PLAYBALL!

to put a quote in a box, put (blockquote) and (/blockquote) outside the text you're quoting, but use <> brackets instead of ().

Thanks!! This is a test.

You pass the test; you will go into the West and remain Galadriel.

Question 2: how do you do "nested quotes" as above?

As regards your experience, maybe you'd like to add your story to the "convert's corner" section here?:

http://richarddawkins.net/convertsCorner

I found it very touching. I sometimes think the bible is atheism's most valuable asset. Unfortunately, most theists haven't read it (except the nice fluffy bits that they get read to them).

497. Evolving Mistakes

Comment #134925 by Geoff on February 28, 2008 at 10:35 am

Enlightenme #18

indeed, but please notice the careful use of the past tense!

498. Fleabytes

Comment #134877 by Geoff on February 28, 2008 at 9:27 am

Now would seen a good time to remind ourselves of Steve Zara's prediction of a week ago:

295. Comment #130774 by Steve Zara on February 21, 2008 at 9:14 am

Does anyone think it a little ironic that someone is visibly posting about wanting a ban lifted?

I suspect a ploy.

I suspect he will post a response to Paula that is full of ad-hominems and attacks in order to provoke a response. If that response is removed, he will retreat back home complaining about mistreatment.

Furthermore, if there is an attempt at a "no ban" policy, that gives him free reign to be as unpleasant has he likes in future posts, until he manages to provoke a ban in the end, then he can again retreat wearing his mistreatment as a badge of honour.

As others have said, there is nothing to stop him posting whatever he likes on his own site, and simply mentioning it here.

But, of course, that would not sustain the impression of martyrdom. Poor David under attack from the evil thuggish atheists.

Don't play his games, I say.