451. AAI 07

Comment #84280 by scooternyc on November 1, 2007 at 3:53 pm

phil & brian - "The answer to your question is a frank I don't know, at least I don't know where it should reasonably "end".

You cut off the IV of services and money immediately to anyone NOT already on the take.

Then you slowly wean off those that are; you don't allow those who are already dependent to have more children without consequence, which means, "have more kids, you won't get services".

There will be a lag in the change because it will appear to get worse before it gets better, most advances towards health of a cancerous type happen that way, and this is a cancer on our society.

If charities want to support these people with PRIVATE dollars, let them. They will find themselves in short order fed up with people making the same stupid decisions and expecting different results - that's called insanity.

Suddenly we have less need for such crazy taxes funding these programs.

The less dependent you are on your government, the more independent you are, the greater your power of choice to live the life you want to live.

Start living this way and you'll find yourself very quickly not having much patience with others who want to cry victim every time they're not being "taken care of", every time they want to "blame others for their choices or lot in life".

It's called - growing up.

Funny isn't it, the very same thing we implore the religious to do - grow up and stop depending on your god which you use as a weapon against others. Much like people using politics and victimization as a weapon against others.

452. AAI 07

Comment #84189 by scooternyc on November 1, 2007 at 11:51 am

You just don't get it. You want a never ending cycle of people being irresponsible and not accountable.

Yeah, that's what we've got going on now.

What's your next idea?

Oh that's right, to take everyone's hard earned money and utilize it for those who want to be irresponsible and not accountable for having children they cannot simply afford.

Do we have your position correct?

453. AAI 07

Comment #84178 by scooternyc on November 1, 2007 at 11:31 am

"I certainly accept this without reservation. However stupid, irresponsible people in the midst of unprotected sex are unlikely to be swayed by this sensible platitude."

Well, at what point do we put an end to this stupidity and hold people accountable?

Or should this be a never-ending subsidized program for stupid in our society that we refuse to hold accountable and pay for their every transgression and mistake?

454. AAI 07

Comment #84117 by scooternyc on November 1, 2007 at 7:55 am

"Do you accept that the health, nutrition and home environment of a child are crucial contributing factors to how well that child does in school?"


Do you accept that a person should not have children if they are not able to provide for them?

455. AAI 07

Comment #84100 by scooternyc on November 1, 2007 at 6:56 am

"OK! So you accept free education is a must? Up to what level?"

Not sure where you got that I didn't accept free education in our primary/secondary schools.

College and University should be paid for by the individual.

Voucher programs for primary/secondary schools should be offered to keep competitive the level of quality and accountability, as with ANY job performance.

456. AAI 07

Comment #84095 by scooternyc on November 1, 2007 at 6:41 am

"...and give them a fishing rod/pole.

Better to show them how to fashion one themselves and allow them the respect of thinking they can rather than insulting them by just giving them the pole.

457. AAI 07

Comment #84093 by scooternyc on November 1, 2007 at 6:36 am

Diacanu - yes, we and a lot of society have been yawning at you and your ilk for years awaiting the enlightenment from your intellectually challenged friends...and we're still waiting.

If you had 1/2 the intelligence and creativity you thought you had, your posts would be much different.

Yes, you're boring us with your "religious" dogma masquerading as liberal thought, of which it is anything but liberal.

458. AAI 07

Comment #84080 by scooternyc on November 1, 2007 at 5:55 am

Diacanu - you and a few others can't help but extract (read: cherry picking like the religious) only those ideas which support your narrow view of life where you indulge and enjoy being a victim. You can't read anything rational because you are so ill-equipped to manage your emotions, thereby understand where the precision is with regard to responsibility/accountability in any given situation. You're quite un-evolved, in actuality.

You're a victim who has felt abused. As such you have no inherent compassion, you are void of the concept, and you think compassion is an emotion rather than an act. You identify with the abusers in your life that you have let have power over you and now "feel" you're in a position of power to abuse.

You want to enforce suffering on others and call it compassion. You want to abuse others and call it charity. You want to indulge your fears and insult the poor and indigent and call is support. You are selfish, self-serving, and egotistical and void of inherent humanity at the highest levels.

459. AAI 07

Comment #84076 by scooternyc on November 1, 2007 at 5:47 am

"I strongly suspect that contributors here are expressing views about how life should be, based on how life has been for them. Emotions prevail over all our choices."

This is one of the more brilliant things written in this thread and on this site. Unfortunately it is lost on the very individuals who need to assimilate it, but it provides amazing response to those who indulge, imbibe and otherwise engage in this emotional-molotov-cocktail behavior.

Since their position is one of having NOT taken responsibility and been accountable, they want EVERYONE to "forgive them" their transgressions and accept the costs they have imposed and forced upon society.

This thinking is no different than the religious dogmatic ideas that those of faith profess time and again about their god.

460. AAI 07

Comment #84050 by scooternyc on November 1, 2007 at 4:34 am

medj- how liberal media of you to deflect the reality of my rewording of a statement so as to NOT have it be/appear as a personal attack on any one person but to address a statement of someone.

Good for you. Keep those meds coming, you're onto something.

461. AAI 07

Comment #84048 by scooternyc on November 1, 2007 at 4:27 am

333. Comment #83746 by Comets

Your post is very rational and what I've been advocating. Not sure if you haven't read all my posts or are listening to the drivel/snivel of others who want to see my compassion for others as loathsome, rather than true compassion, which they lack.

Compassion for humanity isn't about charity, that's an insult to everyone to think you're so much better than the person who is poor or indigent. It is through chance they were born as they are and we are born as we are.

It is a responsibility of those who can TEACH the art of evaluation of one's choices leading to accountability and responsibility through ownership of reality, which is our greatest compassion, not handing someone a dollar on the corner to abate your personal fears of poverty, to be arrogant toward the poor, to get your jollies from someone's circumstance and have the act be self-serving, "look how good I am to help this poor person" (that's what religious people argue all the time about the validity of religion - look how many people it helps).

I can't believe I finally have to say this, but teach a person to fish, stop giving the fish.

No, life is not black/white, you say that because you fall into one of the categories of black/white and you're afraid someone will not help you in your situation.

Help yourself.

Save yourself.

Plan ahead.

Get educated.

Learn to evaluate your choices/outcomes.

Take ownership of your reality.

Be accountable for your choices.

Be responsible to self and society.

All this disdain for my posts are the exact same rhetoric that religious people utilize towards those who "don't believe". There's no intellect being engaged, it's all just emotional ranting and unfiltered blather.

People do make mistakes, that's not what we're talking about. We're talking about people who drain our society's resources beyond a month or two of support; who won't contribute to society's evolution of ideas, invention, progress; who want someone else to save them rather than understanding the mistake - what lead to the mistake - making a better choice for him/her self.

462. AAI 07

Comment #83735 by scooternyc on October 31, 2007 at 4:28 am

steve99 - you just don't want to hear anything that doesn't endorse your stance.

There is a HUGE difference between giving those in a situation a HAND from a situation like the Tsunami or 9/11 and giving those a HANDOUT who refuse to learn to become self-reliant.

The people of 9/11 weren't burdening society by not working, not being contributing members of society - wrong place at the wrong time, that's all.

Our compassion for humanity moves us to helping out and giving a hand.

People who WILL NOT learn to become self-reliant want a HANDOUT - take care of me - provide for me.

There's a HUGE difference. You just don't want to see it which makes me suspect that you probably are one of the ones who wants the HANDOUT and someone to SAVE YOU, take care of you, provide for you.

463. AAI 07

Comment #83733 by scooternyc on October 31, 2007 at 4:23 am

Comets - my point is made by your response - it's what people want to hear who feel victimized themselves

They don't want to hear anything rational, humane or compassionate, they want to stereotype others to invoke more victimization by hearing what they want to hear; seeing what they want to see.

If an individual were brain damaged would we invoke our compassion to lay that person to sleep and end suffering of the individual and the family? Or do we force suffering because we think ourselves arrogant about the value of life?

ALL LIFE IS EQUAL.

We decide every moment of every day the priority by which we take life for survival, comfort, humanity, safety, security, et.al.

No one can PROVE life is not equal across the board because deciding equality is a man-made invention from the mind - NATURE itself does not call life/death good or bad, worthy/unworthy - man does. We think our arrogance of an ability to speak words gives us the platform to make such grandiose statements about life - but NATURE doesn't know this nor does it care. The species, any species, either survives or does not.

Most people will not step away from their egotistical self-centered universe to observe suffering of others, to end that suffering, either by stopping the charity which endures suffering of those who cannot take care of themselves, or by not euthanizing those who have no quality of life due to incapacity of this sort mentioned.

We put animals to sleep because we don't want them to suffer - yet we cannot give the same level of respect to a human life who does not deserve to endure suffering at our own arrogance.

464. AAI 07

Comment #83724 by scooternyc on October 31, 2007 at 4:05 am

"Of course I vote, and of course I care about the uninsured poor and needy (I'm practically one of them)."

This is exactly the problem.

This individual reveals that his/her choices have led him/her to be poor and uninsured or "practically" poor and uninsured. Why should it be that the rest of society would have to provide for such a person who will not provide for self.

Again, I've mentioned several times, you don't like the ideas I've mentioned because then YOU won't be taken care of if we don't take care of others even worse off then you. You defend because of YOUR OWN SELF INTEREST not the interest of others or humanity.

If one person would be honest enough to reveal the true nature of his/her choices which have led to the lot he/she now has in life - you would see how the individual wants to relegate responsibility to others and not to self.

I've posited questions, asked for answers and still NO ONE will answer:

How bad do you want it?

What are you willing to do to get what you want?

What are you willing to sacrifice to have a better life?

I'm guessing because it would mean having to take ownership of reality and no one who is irresponsible and lacks accountability wants to take ownership of his/her reality.

465. AAI 07

Comment #83717 by scooternyc on October 31, 2007 at 3:27 am

medjrich - "ScooterNYC has called those who disagree with him..."

I care not that anyone disagrees with me. However, I will not let the over-emotional types think that just because they want to spew their emotional tirades on the site that we should all just allow it to happen. That's the message these people received at some point in their lives thinking this behavior was appropriate, it's not. Stick to the issue and not the over-emotional rants.

Most, of those "names" as you call them refer to a person's "position" or "statement(s)".

There is a difference, ya know, why don't you learn it.

You can't argue the points so you want to attack the person - me. If you were honest you would argue the points and not attack the person.

Yes, I just said you were dishonest - add that to your list.

466. AAI 07

Comment #83715 by scooternyc on October 31, 2007 at 3:14 am

yes, yes, Lauregon, and the WORLD is RESPONSIBLE for not giving your daughter and neighbor what they need in order to live.

You sound just like the religious who want god to be their parent and "take care of them". Just like the whole "adam ate the apple and now we all have to suffer and we're accountable for his transgression" type of mentality.

Accountability, Responsibility and Choice belong to the individual, not the rest of the world.

Grow up.

467. AAI 07

Comment #83713 by scooternyc on October 31, 2007 at 3:09 am

Oh Lauregon is so wise, so wonderful, so full of...what's that word....

*cue violins and the smallest little record player in the whole wide world*

"And now a recording for all you whiners out there, "who gives a shit" sung by the liberals...enjoy!"

468. AAI 07

Comment #83712 by scooternyc on October 31, 2007 at 3:06 am

JelloWasabi - you already know the answers.

Here's what you want to hear:

"take 'em all out back and shoot 'em"

Now anyone that wants to can engage in more emotional ranting to satisfy their desire for a "hit" of "victimization" has the juice to do it.

469. AAI 07

Comment #83674 by scooternyc on October 30, 2007 at 9:00 pm

reject labels and find balance

I hope people do.

Bravo!

Words to fall asleep by.

470. AAI 07

Comment #83671 by scooternyc on October 30, 2007 at 8:50 pm

USA_Limey - "I also think its patronizing - you are essentially saying these people are weak and can't give up one safety net unless another is provided. I actually think we horrible libertarians have MORE intrinsic faith in individual humans than you do. To you it seems they are just dumb sheep who must be herded from one false god to another, and believe me, worshiping at the alter of a bloated welfare state IS a false god."

HIT THE NAIL HEAD ON! Great post!

It's an insult to give people charity; to offer welfare - as though they are too stupid, too ill-equipped, too dumb, too lazy to work and provide for themselves and their families.

Unfortunately, socialistic actions, feigned altruism are exactly the actions performed by those who think they are better than the poor, indigent and non-wealthy.

It's the EXACT same behavior exampled by the religious who act pious and above it all when they "help the poor" - social libs just want to think they're not just better than the poor, they're better than everyone.

They have less respect for human life than even the religious.

471. AAI 07

Comment #83667 by scooternyc on October 30, 2007 at 8:37 pm

ColonelDan - I agree with your posts.

I find it amazing that the very same dogmatic ideas espoused by the religious are the very same ones espoused by those of a "liberal" bent - hell bent on telling everyone HOW they should live - where all the "unfairness" is - and reliance on a "god called government" rather than self-reliance.

BTW - I live in NY and although highly liberal, they are VERY religious. Some on this site and at that convention didn't seem to get that these liberal democrats who endorse religion, moderate or otherwise, are just as dangerous and in large numbers, as bad as the religious right.

"But pay no attention to that man behind the curtain..."

This issue about being faithless does cut across party lines and should be focused on with regard to logic and reason - but I'm sure you've read plenty on this thread alone that doesn't even represent those precepts.

"It's all about how I FEEL...you hurt my FEELINGS...you can't say that, it hurts my FEELINGS..."

The unresolved, un-integrated emotions from experiences in the past regurgitated on this site attempting to make others responsible for their irresponsible behavior over their lifetime.

"It's all about you, isn't it? Soothe me! Save me! Love me"

472. AAI 07

Comment #83662 by scooternyc on October 30, 2007 at 8:26 pm

I would suppose that a great majority of people on this thread will denounce the CEO of Merrill Lynch for his outrageous severance package he's been given.

Or maybe because he's Black we're willing to call that payback - justice - equal or some other form of rationalization.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/4fb6d18c-86eb-11dc-a3ff-0000779fd2ac.html?nclick_check=1

473. AAI 07

Comment #83661 by scooternyc on October 30, 2007 at 8:22 pm

JelloWasabi – "My wife works at a facility that helps the mentally ill as well as brain injury victims. I think that this type of work is very important. I feel that as a society we are indeed responsible to take care of these people."

Well, you are really asking for me to start a greater firestorm, however, I've never run from challenge.

My question is with regard to quality of life.

Are we more compassionate about animals than humans?

Is the quality of life of these individuals enriched or just financially draining to society?

Who has the greater responsibility, the parent who brought the child into the world or the society who the parent dumped the child upon?

Thanks for the question, I'm about to hear more about what a cold hearted snake I must be, but unlike others, I'm not navigated by overactive emotions.

474. AAI 07

Comment #83457 by scooternyc on October 30, 2007 at 4:42 am

I'm happy to answer these questions, but still no one, not even you, will answer mine. The dodge, as we call it.

Where do you work Scooter? A hotel

What's your salary Scooter? $45,000+ (I work 2 jobs, CAUSE I WANT TO IN ORDER TO AFFORD THINGS AND ENJOY MY LIFE!)My highest salary was $80K before I moved to NY.

What's your educational background Scooter? Master's Degree (of which I pay my school loan every month, $200 for 10 years, you do the math - no one GAVE me money for school except scholarships - because I stayed dedicated and earned a 4.0 otherwise I didn't qualify) Of course, this philanthropy couldn't have been possible without capitalism. I've since donated money to various organizations to support their scholarship programs. Wow, look at that - reciprocity.

What's your family asset base Scooter? Not sure I understand your question.

My family was not wealthy by any means, my dad spent times unemployed at various junctures in his career*, we all worked to help pay for our needs; my mom worked; we, as a family, contributed to our living growing up; I'm the only one of 6 kids who went to college and graduate school. By the time I was 12 I was working part-time and buying my own way, save for shelter and some food while living at home until I was 17 when I moved out and lived on my own ever since.

My mother never finished high school; my dad was a college graduate.

*my father left a position which paid him a great deal of money because he refused to "cook" the books. This meant enormous hardship on our family, but it matter nothing, we all pitched in, worked odd jobs, my mother worked and we made it happen until he found work elsewhere.

You cannot price integrity and honesty.

Does this help?

Oh, forgot to mention, I worked with homeless, runaway youth, battered women, violent families for years; did 2700 volunteer hours for the AmeriCorp Program here in the United States focusing on underprivileged families, children, etc.

475. AAI 07

Comment #83456 by scooternyc on October 30, 2007 at 4:26 am

Why, let's explore the Islamic Extremist, does he/she NOT think they are victim to the ideas of the rest of the world, their narrow view of life as seen through the eyes of Allah? That the rest of the world IMPOSES its way of life ONTO Islam?

Now, look how amazingly that mirrors victimized thinking and those that have narrow views in other religions?

Wow! Look at how it mirrors most typical liberal thinking of being imposed upon?

Instead of seeing the power in choice - extremist think they have no choice - but that everyone ought to make "their" choice - believe as I believe.

These are the things some people will not reflect on because they don't want to face the fact that the very thing they are screaming about, they in fact, thrust on others in different ways.


Now I have to go to my capitalistic job to earn lots of money to afford my rent, food, clothing, vacations, investments, retirement, transportation, insurance, entertainment...

476. AAI 07

Comment #83453 by scooternyc on October 30, 2007 at 4:19 am

BTW - harboring resentments is another form of being a victim, it's really good to let that stuff go, it's the type of thing that can create cancer or illness.

477. AAI 07

Comment #83451 by scooternyc on October 30, 2007 at 4:18 am

Typically people who are extremists ARE victims. When you evaluate the idea, victims are people who have extreme reactions to situations and lash out emotionally, typically making sweeping statements:

"you ALWAYS..."

"EVERYONE always..."

"you NEVER..."

So, yes, making a sweeping statements, unless proven otherwise, usually indicates one being a victim and extremist.

Think of arguments you hear people engaging in and these statements are quite common.

478. AAI 07

Comment #83450 by scooternyc on October 30, 2007 at 4:13 am

"Perhaps you should learn to read"

One would think you need the lesson, thyself:

90. Comment #82866 by scooternyc on October 28, 2007 at 4:34 am

yes, yes, Bonzai, your feelings were hurt; you were offended, I've heard the mantra all before by those that cannot handle the heat. I've reworded the statement, not because I disown the statements to you, but because the site has a standard that I will respect, not you, the site.

They were revised to accommodate your feelings:

47. Comment #82743 by scooternyc on October 27, 2007 at 12:58 pm

"If Bush were born in a poor family he probably would have dropped out of school long time ago and if he were in addition black he would probably be in jail by now for drug possession.

Interesting sweeping statements.

So, you've assumed that ALL poor people will drop out of high school.

ALL black people will eventually go to jail for drug possession.

These statements are both bigoted and racist.

Notice that the remarks say, "these statements" and they don't speak to "the person" but "the statements". Do you feel better now?

More "Liberal" control over what people can say or do. Liberal thinking is anything but liberal.

479. AAI 07

Comment #83446 by scooternyc on October 30, 2007 at 4:06 am

Veronique - it should be presumed that you then go to restaurants and markets daily to gather their tossed foods in order to hand them out to the poor and indigent. Bully for you.

You must have no time for anything else in life, yet here you are typing away; what time management skills you have acquired.

Oh, that's right, someone else should bear the burden of change, not you. You just have platitudes to offer.

480. AAI 07

Comment #83445 by scooternyc on October 30, 2007 at 4:01 am

Questions regarding Capitalism:

What are the salary caps then on all professions?


Should we then dissolve the stock market?


Should we then use only a barter system of service/goods and eliminate paper money?


Who gets to decide what the salary caps are for all professions?


All goods/services should be GIVEN to everyone then so we can all be EQUAL?

Are any here that are in favor of socialism, currently housing the poor, indigent, homeless?

How many?

How are you paying for them?

It is presumed that your computer that you are working from was donated, can you say from whom so we can force that company to give EVERYONE a computer?

What clothing prices should we place a cap on?

What food stores should we place a cap on?

If we fail to place a cap on prices, which capitalism encourages price raising based on what the market will pay, then we'll not be able to afford food. So can someone say what those caps should be?

What should be the price cap on automobiles?

What should be the price cap on education?

We should then eliminate the tax system or is there a set tax rate for everyone? Remember there are caps on salaries, no one is allowed a raise based on merit since that would place one person over the other in terms of earnings and what that person could acquire.

Anyone?

Anyone at all?

I await, with bated breath, your responses.

481. AAI 07

Comment #83442 by scooternyc on October 30, 2007 at 3:50 am

Yes, steve99, I realize that you're an extremist so that if a person has a solid position on one thing we must endorse EVERYTHING he/she says.

So you must clearly endorse Hitchens and his stance on the Iraq war, which means you're a Bush supporter, which then leads one to know that you endorse EVERYTHING Bush stands for, have we got that correct?

482. AAI 07

Comment #83426 by scooternyc on October 30, 2007 at 2:36 am

Diacanu - yes, and what kind of work do you do?

For whom do you work and are employed?

What product does your company produce, sell or market to those who wish to purchase?

483. AAI 07

Comment #83420 by scooternyc on October 30, 2007 at 2:15 am

If some of you understood half as much about free markets as you do about atheism you wouldn't be making such silly remarks. Making sweeping statements about ALL companies and ALL tax breaks reveals the person uninformed and an extremist.

It's such a socialist view that capitalism is wrong - bad boy - get out!

Yet, it's the very thing that keeps everything going. How do you think you're making a living? Honestly - can you BE any more ignorant.

If you haven't read books on the benefits of capitalism, then you don't know capitalism.

Try reading some books by John Stossel, or the Politically Incorrect Guide to Capitalism, or some others where you can honestly say you've read/researched it. Ayn Rand is another good one.

This website is useful:
http://www.capmag.com/index.asp


Put in the word "capitalism" and do a little reading.

Wow! Capitalism is how Dawkins sells books. Capitalism is how Hitchens sells books. Capitalism is how people afford to go to AAI 2007. Capitalism is how advertising is sold/bought to help support websites. Capitalism is how you live your daily life.

It's truly revealing itself that a good majority, not all, who seem to be on these anti-religion sites are merely those who are looking for another form of victimization by which to rant and feel abused. You feel victimized in one area of life so too goes the rest of your life.

If this were a right-wing religious site I'd say, "come on down off the cross, someone else needs the wood".

Once again, the victim mantra of "I don't get my fair share - you owe me - it's not right that you make more money than me - I might not get everything I want".

All the while NO ONE has addressed the questions:

How bad do you want it?

What are you willing to do to get it?

What are you willing to give up to discipline yourself to make the life you want to live?

*crickets chirping*

That's what I thought.

Nothing.

You'd rather have a handout than a hand toward success.

http://www.capmag.com/article.asp?id=1188

484. AAI 07

Comment #83418 by scooternyc on October 30, 2007 at 2:03 am

USA_Limey - scorn! How dare I miss a fun post such as yours - my apologies. Indeed, thank you for adding YOUR voice of reason, as well. They're here, just hard to trudge through the muck sometimes.

Funny, I didn't need religion or socialism to accept responsibility for missing your post and showing myself accountable by apologizing.

Fancy that.

485. AAI 07

Comment #83316 by scooternyc on October 29, 2007 at 3:56 pm

notsobad - finally a voice of reason to join my own.

Intellectual discussion gets traded for emotional arguments that would otherwise bring light to a subject to educate; not happening on this thread, sadly.

People that say they are liberal, are anything BUT liberal - they do more to try and control people's behavior than those who don't profess to be liberal. They want to legislate what people can say; what they can think; where their money goes; what is considered offensive and on and on. It's tiresome and old.

486. AAI 07

Comment #83313 by scooternyc on October 29, 2007 at 3:45 pm

steve99 - I thought you better than what you've presented here in response. I cannot help you understand what it means to be born equal, if you don't understand it, and clearly your emotional responses reflect that you don't want to know it, not sure how anyone could help you.

In which case, as determinism would have it, you'll be left to your own fate for lack of desire to change that which is within you that seeks victimization. Good luck though, I hope for the best for you.

Cheers.

487. AAI 07

Comment #83153 by scooternyc on October 29, 2007 at 4:59 am

"Oh piffle! Worse than genocide! Come off it."

Does not accountability/responsibility hold the precepts for those that would commit genocide?

Yes it does.

Does not the United States afford everyone opportunity to pursuit of their own personal lives and choices?

Yes, it does.

What has Paris Hilton have to do with anything? She inherited money, so what? Does she not still have opportunity?

Yes, she does.

I've spoken about the difference between giving someone a hand and giving someone a handout; it's on this thread.

If you are looking to attack my position, at least have the intellectual honesty to have read what I've written on this thread. I certainly welcome challenges, would never run from them in a moment.

Can't imagine where you ever got the idea I favor socialism, unless I've misread your comment.

"If you are right, I don't see much hope for humanity."

Oddly, the same position that the religious take when posed with the fact that god does not give out morals nor does god exist, "well, what's the point" - the same answer you would give to them is the same answer you ought to be giving yourself.

It doesn't mean we don't enjoy life; we find happiness in the experiences we engage in - speaking of piffle...

488. AAI 07

Comment #83147 by scooternyc on October 29, 2007 at 4:28 am

Communism is about control and who controls it. That is not a society built on Democracy which affords Freedom of Opportunity.

If someone favors Communism, then it follows that you rather like someone else taking care of you like the religious like god taking care of them.

489. AAI 07

Comment #83146 by scooternyc on October 29, 2007 at 4:26 am

"However, I have empathy - even for supposedly lazy people who made bad choices. That, to me, is one of the marks of a civilised person."

No, it's the mark of a person who wants consideration for his/her own laziness and poor choices. It's anything but civilized.

Not holding someone accountable and responsible is the worse offense of humanity. It means to insult that individual into thinking they are incapable of taking care of him/her self without your pity, piousness, charity, and/or handout.

No, it's not civilized at all. It's the exact opposite of being civilized. It's arrogance of the highest order from the person thinking he/she is bestowing their benevolence onto others.

490. AAI 07

Comment #83143 by scooternyc on October 29, 2007 at 4:19 am

This is the mantra of the victimized:

"I won't hold you accountable if you don't hold me accountable"

Let's all sponge off society; they owe us just for "being alive".

If you have more than me, then I deserve what you've got so hand it over; I should benefit off the backs of those who have more than me, what does it matter that they work 80 hours a week to earn their keep and I won't even work a full week's wages.

Who cares that they went to college and I decided not to; why should you be given a bonus when the company I chose to work with won't even treat me fairly.

Don't tell me to work hard to acquire more, you just hand it over, give it to me, I deserve it,

I'm entitled, it's my right.

Why should you have more than me?

How long would you allow a family member to sponge off of you before throwing them out for not taking appropriate action to improve their position in life? A month? 6 months? A year? Forever?

Those that would choose "forever" like the abuse so they can complain about how the family member won't get a job, won't take care of himself, etc. and elicit sympathy from others as "poor me" look what a good person I was to let this person in my house and what he's DOING TO ME.

Why is it that you would allow strangers then opportunity to sponge off your "nation's" house for an indefinite amount of time? Because you're not paying for it? Because you can take other people's money that is not your own and relegate it to these irresponsible people of our society?

You're born equal not given equal.

You have equal opportunity, not entitlement to equal distribution.

Whoever put that thought into your head did you the greatest disservice imaginable by making you think you're entitled to something that doesn't belong to you or that you didn't work for yourself, by absolving you of accountability and responsibility for self-reliance and self-success.

491. AAI 07

Comment #83140 by scooternyc on October 29, 2007 at 4:00 am

octavian – yours is the first intelligent question asked.

There is a deterministic reality to life that most people are uncomfortable with realizing, thus they attempt to be in denial of it.

If you want to read some great stuff on this, Natalie Angier wrote a great book called the Meme Machine. She also did a great interview with D.J. Grothe where they touched on determinism.

We are hard-wired to choose in life, which renders much of the perceived choice as ridiculous. However, in order to live in a civilized society we still need to hold people accountable for those choices – determined or otherwise.

The poor can create greater self-reliance if those of a stronger meme toward accountability/responsibility attempt to affect the meme of victimization by not allowing people to act as such and enforcing accountability. Eventually you can eradicate to a strong percentage the number of people behaving this way.

We all are affecting the meme of religion by speaking out against it; rallying our arguments; making our case. This action will eventually move the memetic toward a different configuration.

If a person comes from a strong alcoholic family, he/she is hard-wired for the eventual same outcome. Those that make the choice to not go down that road would have made that choice deterministically as the opportunity toward homeostasis is revealed and taken – thus changing the meme and gene. This is a good thing.

What you're seeing on this thread are people who are, not concerned with the poor, but concerned about themselves. They're victims. They're afraid of being left without because society would hold them accountable for their actions and irresponsible choices.

Like the religious who dislike Darwin and the concept of Natural Selection, they're afraid they won't be selected.

Well, the over-emotional types here are afraid that they will not be "saved" by someone else for their irresponsible decisions; that we would hold them accountable and not bail them out.

However, armed with the knowledge of understanding, you, as the individual, are responsible for your choices and accountable to those lives you affect; be an adult and act appropriately.

Why should your choices be at a cost to others?

Instead, as I made the comparison before, it's the same "save me" I don't want to be held accountable; I want my government to take care of me as the parental figurehead – just like the religious using god as their figurehead and not wanting to be accountable – invoking forgiveness for their poor choices.

Government reliance is a intravenous drug that is controlling and difficult to become independent from. It's much like religion slowly creating the mindset of "you need this to live by, you can't do without it, you're not smart enough". It's an insult and it seeks to control and manipulate. Once I have you controlled I can now say what you can and cannot do even to the extent of my narrow view of life. How much is this like religion?

I would welcome intellectual and reasonable discussion about this as it supports greater understanding of life.

If we hold people accountable, then the notion of religion dissolves over time because we understand that we are accountable to no supernatural being but the society at large, to those we bring into this world through parenthood, to those whose lives we affect with our interactions.

That's the greatest responsibility and accountability we can have - self - family - the community - the nation - the world.

492. What's the evolutionary advantage of offering your place to an old woman on a bus?

Comment #83126 by scooternyc on October 29, 2007 at 2:39 am

"Religion will never give you that which would compel you to give up your seat for an old woman - respect for humanity. Either you would do this action because it is part of your humanity, or you would not."

"No religion or god will give you that which you inherently lack."

493. Science can answer how questions but only religion can answer why questions

Comment #83125 by scooternyc on October 29, 2007 at 2:35 am

"Why questions deflect the ability to engage in reality and seek distraction to attempt manipulation. How questions seek understanding."

494. Science and Religion BOTH make faith claims

Comment #83124 by scooternyc on October 29, 2007 at 2:29 am

"Faith is based on the absence of evidence. Science is based on evidence reaching a conclusion."


"Science is humble to say it doesn't know everything and is still searching. Religion is arrogant to say that it knows everything and needs to look no further."

495. You can't be moral without God!

Comment #83122 by scooternyc on October 29, 2007 at 2:25 am

"Either you are a good person, born inherently that would do good or you are not"

"No amount of god, religion or bible will give you intrinsically, that which you lack - a sense of goodness toward humanity?"

"Actions done in the name of god are fraudulent. They show a lack of inherent humanity on the part of the individual to not have arrived at the empathetic action on his/her own, naturally"

496. Hitler, Stalin, Mao, etc. were atheists, and they were terrible! Answer that!

Comment #83117 by scooternyc on October 29, 2007 at 2:17 am

"What do Religions killing in the name of Religion have to do with Stalin or Hitler?" (this address the deflection argument)

"Is there any logic, religious or otherwise, that justifies mass murder?" (this addresses the irrational argument)

"Are you honestly using a "tit for tat" argument as justification and rationalization for mass murder done in the name of religion?" (this addresses the comparison argument)

497. AAI 07

Comment #82909 by scooternyc on October 28, 2007 at 8:25 am

epeeist - you don't say what decisions your paternal grandfather made to begin with which would have led him to NOT having financial resources or insurance by which to take care of himself. Nor your father.

Did he squander this money?

Did he drink too much?

Did he have children he couldn't afford?

Did he live somewhere too expensive and should have moved?

Did he have a smoking habit that he could have curtailed, saved money and afforded insurance?

Did he take on burden and rob himself of the opportunity of higher education to make a better life?

Please, let's not go down the "poor me" road if you're not willing to reveal all elements of the decision making process.

Somewhere along the lines decisions are made which cause reaction/action in one's life for which he/she must be held accountable.

Again, relegating responsibility to others is fraudulent at the highest level and compares to the religious of our world wanting someone/something to "save them" for their accountability.

498. AAI 07

Comment #82906 by scooternyc on October 28, 2007 at 8:17 am

Clearly too many of you want to confuse giving someone a handout as opposed to giving someone a hand.

Your emotional, irrational, un-integrated experiences from the past serve you nothing except to re-injure you and keep you in the thought of being a victim.

Being human, making mistakes has no shame. Delegating responsibility for the choices you made that lead to the mistake is shameful.

Own your life. Be accountable for your actions. Stop looking to your government as your god to protect you, absolve you of your mistakes.

We should support those who wish to help themselves, not the proverbial individual who won't take responsibility for his/her choices which created the issue.

This is the grandest mistake those of you who take issue with my statements, make - you will NOT look to the irresponsible decisions made by the individual who now wants YOU to rescue him/her.

You won't address it honestly with yourself, I have no reason to think you would honestly address it with myself.

499. AAI 07

Comment #82873 by scooternyc on October 28, 2007 at 5:02 am

Diacanu, I would never be friends with a person who reads my personal viewpoints as rhetoric rather than intellectual ideas placed on a table for debate. Nor someone who is inherently condescending, if you would act this way toward someone you don't know, one can only imagine how you would act towards those you do know.

Thanks, but no thanks. I have plenty of genuine, solid, open-minded friends who hold no narrow view of life.

500. AAI 07

Comment #82868 by scooternyc on October 28, 2007 at 4:35 am

For those that self-identify as "liberal" I find it humorous that your attacks toward my statements are anything BUT liberal.

Since you see the poor as victims and you secretly harbor the self-identity of being a victim, "what others have done TO YOU", you're afraid that if you screw up in life no one will save you instead of you making decisions to "save" yourself, take care of yourself responsibly from the moment of your adulthood.

How is this thought process any different than those of a religious mindset who turn everything over to god - the parental figurehead.

You just want to turn over everything to government - your god, to take care of you, make your decisions, keep people from offending you, making sure that you take no personal responsibility for your actions, absolve you of your accountability.

Face this truth and you will lift the fog of your own religious dogmatic viewpoint of life.