451. Fleabytes

Comment #147341 by Vaal on March 20, 2008 at 7:32 am

I am taking a break from the RD site for a while. Hope you make it to 10,000 posts. I will look on occasionally to see how it is going. It is just too addictive otherwise.

David, honestly, you can't really believe that inane nonsense you espouse every day. Try looking at the world and explaining it without any supernatural agent, and be honest about it. You are obviously fairly intelligent, but you have just compartmentalised your brain to believe anything, and are hoodwinking yourself. The Emperor still has no clothes, no matter how much you huff and puff.

I had hoped to hear something from you that would make me stand up and take notice, but it is still the same old straw men, smokes and mirrors. I am staggered you believe it yourself, when you look back and see what you are writing.

Paula, Steve and others. I have learnt lots from you and hope to have built my arguments more cogently from your excellent posts. Irate, Diacanu, you are class! Cartomancer, man, you hurt my sides, and have a talent that I wish I had.

Exceptional posts from many, who I have not mentioned. Riveting, but exasperating, to see the woolly headed thinking of the wooters of this world, and the inculcated poison coming from the empty heads of the pathfinders.

452. Sci-fi guru Clarke to have secular funeral

Comment #146804 by Vaal on March 19, 2008 at 12:23 pm

I don't know. I would like to be there to have paid him my last respects.

Classic quote...

The famed science fiction writer, who once denigrated religion as "a necessary evil in the childhood of our particular species"

Personally, I would like to burn on a pyre on top of my brother's car when I go, just to piss him off! :-)) We are friends really, just a brother thing!

453. Writer Arthur C Clarke dies at 90

Comment #146774 by Vaal on March 19, 2008 at 11:48 am

What a shame. He will be sorely missed in this day of religious backwardness and small mindedness, when we need him most.

He was a man of vision, who could see what mankind was capable of, at its best. He was a man who could see the bigger picture. A man beyond his time. Personally he was an inspiration as I grew up, as iconic as Carl Sagan, and why I developed a keen interest in Astronomy as a youngster. As he said below, he inspired youngsters to become astronauts and scientists, to want to learn more about the Universe and the world around them. How many of us could inspire such a legacy.

I'm sure we would not have had men on the Moon if it had not been for Wells and Verne and the people who write about this and made people think about it. I'm rather proud of the fact that I know several astronauts who became astronauts through reading my books. Arthur C Clarke

A man who predicted communication satellites in the 1940's. Compare this to the quote by the Astronomer Royal, of ALL people, hardly a decade before man walked on the Moon.

All this writing about space travel is utter bilge, Richard Woolley Astronomer Royal 1956

I am sure in my lifetime, that we shall see another of his visionary ideas, the space elevator, become a fact, and the solar system will be opened to mankind, at a fraction of the cost of today's travel. Who knows, maybe one of us or our children will spend a holiday at a hotel in Space, or the Moon or perhaps Mars. Can you imagine seeing the Grand Canyon on Mars, 5 miles deep and over 2000 miles long, or standing on top of Olympus Mons, a dormant volcano the size of Spain, and three times as tall as Everest, or maybe looking at the rings of Saturn from one of its moons.

Here are some of Sir Arthur's predictions.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7304852.stm

I am very sad to hear this news, and for it to be overtaken in the news by such self serving harridans as Heather Mills McCartney is a sad indictment of our obsession with the celebrity, when we should be celebrating the visionary.

Sir Arthur C Clarke, I salute you.

454. Ban anti-Catholic books in schools, says bishop

Comment #144425 by Vaal on March 16, 2008 at 3:52 am

D'Arcy

I was speaking to a religite, who was pigeonholing all the Jews for the crime of killing Jesus. I said "Well, Jesus was a Jew as well". He replied in horror "Jesus WASN'T a Jew!!".

Wow, I was rendered speechless.

455. Richard Dawkins on The Alan Colmes Show

Comment #144201 by Vaal on March 15, 2008 at 10:12 am

Bonzai

Really. Human beings have been changing animals, and plants, since early agriculture. Look at dogs, cows, horses, pigs etc etc. Some of them have changed almost beyond recognition. Look at how some of us are more lactose tolerant. I just thought it would have seemed, thick though I am, that it would have occurred to somebody a long time before Darwin.

456. Richard Dawkins on The Alan Colmes Show

Comment #144186 by Vaal on March 15, 2008 at 9:31 am

Thanks Steve

Wikipedia, sorry, should have checked that out.

Wow, this is interesting, actually from an Arab scholar in the 7th Century, Al-Jahiz.

Animals engage in a struggle for existence; for resources, to avoid being eaten and to breed. Environmental factors influence organisms to develop new characteristics to ensure survival, thus transforming into new species. Animals that survive to breed can pass on their successful characteristics to offspring.

Looks like modern Islam has a lot to learn from early Islam. Seems that are going in a retrograde direction. I shall have to remember that quote, next time I encounter Islamic Creationism.

457. I don't believe in atheists

Comment #144156 by Vaal on March 15, 2008 at 8:11 am

ungodlystheist

I actually agree with you, and your point below, as there is no other rational response.

However, this is why good law is not decided by our passions in adverse circumstances - but as to reflect our best rational thinking in the cool light of day

However, having never been in that situation, I honestly wonder what my own response would be if it came down to it. I wonder what the Bulger parents would think?

458. Richard Dawkins on The Alan Colmes Show

Comment #144143 by Vaal on March 15, 2008 at 7:49 am

Steve, just as a matter of interest, as you seem to be a very well read chap, and I learn a lot from your posts.

Are you not surprised that it took to the 19th Century for somebody to come up with evolution. It seems fairly obvious, although with the benefit of hindsight.

After all, the Greeks came up with the atom five centuries before Christ, and understood the Earth revolved around the sun. They even measured the circumference of the Earth. Were there any indications that anybody had considered evolution in that era, and had put pen to paper contemplating it?

Maybe the Library of Alexandria had that information before it was burned to the ground? I can't say I have heard of anything like that, but would be interested if you or anybody else had come across it.

459. The atheist delusion

Comment #144140 by Vaal on March 15, 2008 at 7:31 am

And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth

Now, that is the quote that as a youngster made me squirm, and seriously doubt the Bible, and THAT is the very beginning of it. The arrogance of the Abrahamic religions that humans could treat the Earth and all its other inhabitants as they wished, to give them a blank cheque for all sorts of monstrous behaviour towards anything that wasn't human, and that they were somehow separate from the animal kingdom, was utter solipsistic nonsense, and a point of view that was morally and ethically bankrupt. I just didn't understand that people in the Church could accept that without question.

So, the following comment below is actually the point of the view of the Religious, written in black and white above. Most humanists are VERY concerned about the appalling extinction rates, the exponential growth in the human population, the habitat loss as a direct result of overpopulation, the trafficking of animal parts, the destruction of forests and the environment.

Personally, I contribute towards the WWF, the RSPCA, and other bodies, otherwise we will be left with a planet with hardly any other species. That would be an appalling and irrecoverable crime by humanity!

the ugly fantasy that the Earth exists to serve humans, which most secular humanists share

Unbelievable the utter misrepresentation of the Godbotherers, to the point of slander. Lying for Jesus seems to be common practice.

460. I don't believe in atheists

Comment #144117 by Vaal on March 15, 2008 at 6:11 am

For me he is comfortable with torture

I don't know that that is what Sam Harris is saying. However, I wonder how many of us, sat here in our comfortable homes at a keyboard, would be capable of torture in dire circumstances.

If I had hold of a kidnapper who had my daughter entrapped where she would run out of air in 24 hours, then yes, absolutely, I would be more than capable of torture to get her release. I think in all honesty, it would be the same for practically anybody.

461. The atheist delusion

Comment #144113 by Vaal on March 15, 2008 at 5:49 am

The incomprehensibility of the divine

Cracking! It is incomprehensible because it doesn't exit.

462. Richard Dawkins on The Alan Colmes Show

Comment #144101 by Vaal on March 15, 2008 at 5:18 am

Man. Those adverts!! Thank Thor for the BBC.

I think Richard has got to be careful implying that intelligent people don't believe in God, as he is at risk of alienating opinion, and coming across as an intellectual snob.

Several of my friends who are very intelligent, and have top degrees are theists. They just seem to have a mental block when you come to criticizing their religion. I don't know why. It would present an interesting psychological study.

They argue to a point and realize that their description of God becomes woollier and woollier, until they can't really define him at all. Then they come back to "That's not my God".

Fortunately, we just agree to disagree and none of them threaten me with murder as an Infidel. We just go out and have a drink and a laugh. I think the best we can do is try and persuade, not confront and hope that the seed that is laid in their minds grows until they work it out themselves. Otherwise they will just hunker deeper into their trenches, ignoring the incandescent shells of rationality.

Right off to watch the rugger. Come on England!

463. I don't believe in atheists

Comment #143619 by Vaal on March 14, 2008 at 8:54 am

So, he is what? A fundamentalist wanker?

464. Deadly Sins 101

Comment #143584 by Vaal on March 14, 2008 at 8:13 am

How about thinking is a sin? At least Wooter would be in the clear.

465. Ban anti-Catholic books in schools, says bishop

Comment #143491 by Vaal on March 14, 2008 at 6:47 am

51. Comment #143486 by Ygern

This seems to be the trend since Ratzinger was elected Pope. I've never seen so many Catholic bishops falling over themselves to 'witness to' & promote bigotry, intolerance, ignorance, censorship, dubiously unsafe sex & hate-mongering.

I would say that Darth Ratty has looked at the Islamic model, and feels that his doctrine is missing out, and so is trying the same tactics.

I still reckon they should have elected Father McQuire to be Pope. Pope Dougal, what a show that would be!

466. Bishop accuses gays of 'conspiracy' against the Catholic Church

Comment #143477 by Vaal on March 14, 2008 at 6:33 am

Of course he is deluded. Isn't that a sine qua non for becoming a bishop.

I would have thought it a job requirement.

467. Fleabytes

Comment #143473 by Vaal on March 14, 2008 at 6:29 am

Do you know, I think Clearthinker isn't a theist at all, but just a wind up merchant who likes to come on to the board, write some cobblers, and then just sits back and watch the board rev up and chuckles to himself.

468. Fleabytes

Comment #143433 by Vaal on March 14, 2008 at 5:39 am

#143420 by Sargeist

In a way, despite the obvious Euthyphro problem, I can see the attraction of big-beardy-morals, handed down from the sky

Who. Thor, Odin, Zeus?

469. Fleabytes

Comment #143416 by Vaal on March 14, 2008 at 5:20 am

How about Oxford. We could do the Inspector Morse tour of the local pubs. Perhaps RD would care to have a jar with us. Oh, Veronique is over from May as well.

470. Fleabytes

Comment #143401 by Vaal on March 14, 2008 at 5:08 am

#143396 by clearthinker

Blind faith is by definition stupid. Real faith is faith based upon knowledge and that knowledge must always be open to challenge

Anyone see the irony in that?

471. Fleabytes

Comment #143389 by Vaal on March 14, 2008 at 4:45 am

Starksy and Hutch, no consequence. Blasphemy!!

472. Bishop accuses gays of 'conspiracy' against the Catholic Church

Comment #143387 by Vaal on March 14, 2008 at 4:42 am

So, if you are gay and an Infidel, do you get killed twice?

473. Fleabytes

Comment #143382 by Vaal on March 14, 2008 at 4:23 am

Very good Steve. Doesn't she have no hair now? Maybe it is a wig?

It is David Soul in one of his first roles on TV, in the Star Trek episode "The Apple", where Kirk destroys their religion, by killing off the 10,000 year old machine they have been worshipping, Vaal.

Guess Gene Roddenberry was an atheist too!

474. Fleabytes

Comment #143376 by Vaal on March 14, 2008 at 4:08 am

Notice that DR is the opposite of RD. Very fitting.

Anyone recognise who my Avatar is?

475. Fleabytes

Comment #143358 by Vaal on March 14, 2008 at 3:31 am

I know that Dawkins does not like to debate (and as he generally does not come of well, I can understand why)

Another case of wishful thinking by wea flea. Can he point to one example of RD coming off poorly in a debate. I would be interested to see that. Of course, I suppose from his point of view, it is all in the eye of the beholder.

I have yet to see a single debate with a religite, where they have come across as less than foolish, from the bumblings of McGrath to the odious rantings of D'Sousa. That is what happens when you have a non argument, and in some ways I agree with RD, in that debate with religites gives them an equal platform, and unwarranted legitimacy.

476. Fleabytes

Comment #143154 by Vaal on March 13, 2008 at 2:33 pm

Quetzalcoatl

That would be an ecumenical matter.

477. Fleabytes

Comment #143150 by Vaal on March 13, 2008 at 2:25 pm

Quetzalcoatl

Personally, I'd find it funny if the first thing aliens said to us was "Jesus who? Let us tell you about the All-Powerful Xrglyuf, the Swarm-Father and creator of all life in the Universe

That would be a metaphor for Jesus!

478. Fleabytes

Comment #143137 by Vaal on March 13, 2008 at 2:04 pm

Steve,

It is called moving the goalposts. The religites do it all the time. From Galileo to Einstein to Steven Hawkings, ad infinitum.

When they find life outside the Earth, then it will be that God created life in the Universe, not just the Earth etc etc.

479. Deadly Sins 101

Comment #143082 by Vaal on March 13, 2008 at 12:22 pm

You couldn't make it up. Oh, sorry, they have!

480. Ban anti-Catholic books in schools, says bishop

Comment #143069 by Vaal on March 13, 2008 at 12:06 pm

Irate_atheist

Are you going to reply, or shall I?

481. Bishop accuses gays of 'conspiracy' against the Catholic Church

Comment #143053 by Vaal on March 13, 2008 at 11:51 am

As Steve says, just let the Church carry on with this sort of nonsense. It is actually far better than any criticism that we can level at them, as it shows them for the bigots they are and the small mindedness of their beliefs.

It is cods wallop like this that empties the churches, particularly with the young, as the zeitgeist has moved on.

482. Fleabytes

Comment #143049 by Vaal on March 13, 2008 at 11:46 am

Irate_atheist

So, David, why do you not believe in Zeus? Or Thor? Or Allah? Or Baal? Or Ganesha?

Interesting point. I have always wondered, if you believe that one God exists, then why not ten, or a hundred, or an infinite number of Gods. Maybe all quark particles are Gods? What does that make an anti-quark?

Does David believe more devoutly than an Aztec who is sacrificing his child to the Sun God? Would he sacrifice his child to placate his God? What would that Aztec father think of David. Would he put him to death as a blasphemer or heretic? Who is the true believer?

My biggest question is Why believe in a God at all. What is God? In the Ice ages, they revered the animals they hunted, as they depended on them for there very existence. You can see ample evidence of this in the caves at Lascaux, where the Shamans painted them in reverence over 16,000 years ago.

The Egyptians, the Aztecs, all depended on the harvests and attributed the seasons, the weather to their Gods. If they had a bad harvest then they had sinned against the Gods. What was the benefit to the the Priests? They had a free lunch and power over their communities, as what more power could they have than to threaten the unruly with eternal damnation.

What of people who lived by a volcano that erupts once every 1000 years. They would worship the volcano as a God, and should the volcano erupt, then the people had sinned. Of course, the volcano would just erupt when its magma chamber filled, as it had for millennia before the humans ever existed. Nature exists in supreme indifference to mankind, just as it did to the dinosaurs.

If God did exist, then why would he need to be worshiped? Why should he care? Would he really want to see people groveling prostrate to him. That sounds more like a human characteristic. In fact, David has got it nearly right, man created God in his own image, with all his nasty character traits.

Why would you need to feel loved by your supernatural being? It sounds more than a little insecure. What is the morality in worshiping a God who would incinerate you for eternity, should you not believe in him. That is the action of an evil vindictive psychopath, not a loving God. Not very rational, is it David?

483. Fleabytes

Comment #142950 by Vaal on March 13, 2008 at 8:51 am

Now, if we had had an email from GOD on post 5000, saying "I EXIST", I would have been impressed! HaHa!

Maybe he is waiting for post 10,000!

484. Fleabytes

Comment #142926 by Vaal on March 13, 2008 at 8:03 am

So, after 5000 posts, anybody been persuaded by David's arguments for the existence of a personal supernatural deity, or has it just been more of the same?

I think personally when he issued the quote below, that his world view was confirmed as abject intellectual surrender.

Yes I am. I am totally amazed at the Universe. So much so that I cannot conceive of it as being self-existent, or having come from no where and nothing. Therefore I worship its Creator.

No more to be said.

485. Two More Fleas

Comment #142462 by Vaal on March 12, 2008 at 2:21 pm

Has anyone provided a proof of God's inexistence

What!!!?? Bl*dy idiot. That is the start to his book? Zeus help us. Those straw men are charging off the cliffs like a herd of lemmings.

Have any of these books got anything new to add, or is it just complete bollocks. Excuse the French. Anyone getting bored with this incessant dross?

486. Fleabytes

Comment #142273 by Vaal on March 12, 2008 at 8:39 am

Nice case of animal intelligence, communication and empathy shown on this BBC report of Whales being rescued by a dolphin in NZ..

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/7291501.stm

There was also a very interesting recent article about a group of young swimmers being protected by a pod of dolphins from a Great White shark. Now you wouldn't expect that to be in the interests of the dolphins to put themselves in mortal danger for another species. Obviously they didn't read any scripture, or maybe they did. :-) Moses the dolphin returning from Mount Pico to find the other dolphins worshiping a golden lobster?

487. Seven new deadly sins: are you guilty?

Comment #141708 by Vaal on March 11, 2008 at 5:44 am

I presume his Royal Highness, Darth Ratzinger, and his retinue, will be providing an example to all us sinners by travelling by bicycle and sailing ship to protect the environment?

488. Fleabytes

Comment #141479 by Vaal on March 10, 2008 at 1:36 pm

Man. Stop it!!!

489. Seven new deadly sins: are you guilty?

Comment #141476 by Vaal on March 10, 2008 at 1:33 pm

#141473 by noodly_noodleson

The test gave me a 'gluttonous' level 3. So it's sending me to hell and calling me fat??

Still, you will be able to burn it off :-))

490. Fleabytes

Comment #141467 by Vaal on March 10, 2008 at 1:19 pm

Absolutely class Cartomancer. Nearly fell off my chair laughing!!

491. Should Galileo's tomb be opened for DNA tests?

Comment #141455 by Vaal on March 10, 2008 at 12:59 pm

#141453 by noodly_noodleson

Vaal, will that be your ten percent tithing?

Knock it up to 20%. Will add the second middle finger. :-)

Hmmmm, yes, perhaps the girl is descended from Jesus?! I see where you are going. Could be a film to be made...

492. Should Galileo's tomb be opened for DNA tests?

Comment #141449 by Vaal on March 10, 2008 at 12:46 pm

That's sorted. I shall be leaving my middle finger to the Church.

493. Seven new deadly sins: are you guilty?

Comment #141441 by Vaal on March 10, 2008 at 12:28 pm

My Goodness. The hypocrisy is breathtaking!

How about some new sins..

1) Their myopic policies creating an aids epidemic in Africa on the scale of the holocaust.

2) Actively encouraging the exponential and unsustainable population growth that absolutely DOES breed environmental destruction and poverty. When is enough Darth? One hundred billion, two hundred billion?

3) The suppression of knowledge for nearly 2 millennium? How long did it take the "infallible" Church to apologise to Galileo for actually reporting the truth? 300 years? Think the hotline to God is a bit faulty.

4) Terrorising Children by threatening them with eternal damnation and torment by their "loving God", who is so paranoid and desperate that he will incinerate you for eternity, should you not worship him. Sound like a human trait perchance?

5) Making up new dogma's as you go along?

6) Disseminating untruths as truths in the insidious propaganda war against knowledge.

7) Proselytizing the young before the age of 14.

8) The obsession of the holy with sex.

I am sure there are many other "sins" that more able people can fill in...

494. Oklahoma: One Step from Doom

Comment #141086 by Vaal on March 10, 2008 at 2:39 am

The bill itself says that a student cannot be graded down if they say that what they are being taught interferes with their religious beliefs.

WHAT!!!!?? How about the Earth being carried on the back of an elephant? Talk about Dumb and Dumber, and this from the nation who put a man on the Moon, and who have probes on Mars and Titan. I am flabbergasted. This sort of nonsense should be fought tooth and nail, or ignorance will become the norm.

I would be very interested in the results of a science test on the cretins who propose this legislation. I expect that they would be shown as utter science dunces. Would they even know that the sun is a star? Somehow I doubt it.

495. Fleabytes

Comment #140945 by Vaal on March 9, 2008 at 6:55 am

Hilberts hotel? Had to look that up. See, learn something new every time I come on to this site.

Thought for a moment MPhil was referring to the hotel at the end of the Universe in Hitchhikers guide to the galaxy.

496. Fleabytes

Comment #140929 by Vaal on March 9, 2008 at 5:53 am

Congratulations to Wales for the triple crown. I am still suffering from the appalling England performance against the Scots, although in fairness, the Scot's aren't a bad team.

You guys are definitely going for breaking 5000 posts, aren't you? ;-)

Has Opaquethinker given up, or are we destined for another tidal wave of inanity?

497. Lords Approve Abolition Of Blasphemy

Comment #140921 by Vaal on March 9, 2008 at 5:40 am

Not quite sure of the law there epeeist. Surely you can still become a Lord if you are a British citizen, or did Hitchen's give up his British citizenship? Can you not have joint citizenship?

Actually, a very good candidate for the house of Lords would be David Attenborough, particularly when an astonishing 87 of the myopic Lords voted to retain this obscene law. If anybody deserved a title of being a Lord, it would be him.

498. Lords Approve Abolition Of Blasphemy

Comment #140893 by Vaal on March 9, 2008 at 4:07 am

Strangely enough I have been in meetings at work where the subject is just as tedious as any debate at the house of Commons/Lords. However, had I been caught nodding off, then I would have been given the sack. Perhaps those of our elected and paid representatives in the house of Commons caught resting their eyelids should be given the same courtesy.

The house of Lords seems to be full of people who seem to resemble the old fogies, Statler and Waldorf, from the muppets, so they have a bit more excuse to nod off, at their extreme age. Mind you, it is probably not helped by a cigar and a brandy at the bar, before having a well deserved kip in the chamber!

499. When blasphemy bit the dust

Comment #140633 by Vaal on March 8, 2008 at 5:04 am

Lord Elystan-Morgan quoted approvingly from The God Delusion, in which Dawkins describes the Christian God as "a petty, unjust, unforgiving control freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully. Lord Elystan-Morgan did not believe that Dawkins should be prosecuted for this statement.

Actually, anybody who was read the Old Testament would regard RD's description of God as indisputable. It is all there in black and white, for anyone to read. I fail to see how it would be blasphemy as that is exactly what he was.

Comment #140531 by Prom_STar
I think RD was misquoted. Wasn't he referring to the Old Testament (pre-Christian) god?

I think yes, but the Christian God is the God of the Old Testament as well as the New.

Interestingly, the early Christian Church was nearly driven to schism by the complete transformation of God's personality in the New Testament. There was a split ("splitters") by a group believing in Marcionism, which declared the Christian God was an entirely new and different God from the Jewish God, and characterized Yahweh as a "bungling or malicious demiurge". Marcion had a good deal of support, and had history gone his way, then the Christians would now be worshiping
a new God. Would he have been called Marcus? Eventually he was declared a heretic and excommunicated (a good case of history again being written by the winners).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcion

It wasn't till the Islamic God, Allah, reappeared before he reverted back to the tyrannical, psychotic desert God of the Old Testament (classic case of plagiarism).

Still, I raise a glass to the abolition of this anachronistic asinine non law, and sincerely hope, but unfortunately doubt, that it will be adopted throughout the rest of the world in my lifetime.

500. Lords Approve Abolition Of Blasphemy

Comment #140174 by Vaal on March 7, 2008 at 3:12 am

I am surprised they debate anything in the house of Lords. Whenever I see it on TV, they are mostly having a kip (sleeping, for our American friends). In fact, I am sure there were a couple of dead ones in the corner. Could have sworn I saw a skull or two! Probably been there since the civil war.