501. God Hates the World

Comment #51913 by scottishgeologist on June 25, 2007 at 2:34 pm

Dr Benway, the believers who claim to object to this sort of thing actually believe a lot of it. The churches are OBSESSED with homosexuality. I have just finished reading a cpy of the Church of Scotland Magazine "Life and Work" - hardly howling fundie material these days, yet it is full of letters, articles and all sorts of comment about the subject. The Church of England ties itslef in knots over it and is on the verge of schism.

The fact that there is so much angst within the churches is because of the very same scriptures and doctrines that WBC and Fred Phelps draw from.

A gay man in a conservative evangelical church must be a very lonely and confused person at times. I know of one. He IS.

502. God Hates the World

Comment #51904 by scottishgeologist on June 25, 2007 at 2:20 pm

Fred Phelps is often dismissed as some sort of extremist who represents a loony fringe. He isnt - he is merely the end point of a religious continuum that has John Shelby Spong and his ultra-liberal quasi-agnosticism at one end and every variety of "moderate" and "conservative" faith in between.

Phelps knows his bible well and that is exactly where the problem lies. Every one of his hateful assertions is backed up from "scripture" Check out his home page where he gives proof after proof for his anti gay ideas.

He refers to Jonathan Edwards famous sermon "Sinners in the hands of and Angry God". Edwards was one of the most influential early American preachers, Calvinist, Puritan and the leader of the "Great Awakening". Edwards is highly thought of in evangie and conservative circles. Even today. One of the Puritan heros of the past.

"Sinners in the hands of an Angry God" is absolutely chock full of Phelps-isms - and all quoted from Scripture!

The problem isnt Phelps - its the disgusting holy book of hate that he reads and quotes from. He is actually being quite honest. The hypocrites are those conservative Christians who conveniently ignore the "difficult" bits and try to present a lovey-dovey God.

Hate is actually a biblical value. Try Romans 9:13 - "Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated" Those who are "saved" are loved, the rest, ie most of mankind, well, hated.

Prof Dawkins is right in his statement about "God" : 'the most unpleasant character in all fiction ... a misogynist, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully'

Succinctly put!

503. His word: Attacking religion can seem like breaking a butterfly on a wheel

Comment #51680 by scottishgeologist on June 24, 2007 at 4:10 am

Billy, you wont get a straight answer from DR here. I know why you brought up homosexuality and the Pope - the thread touched on logicallity - both these subjects (anti christ pope and homophobia ARE illogical) Trouble is David is a member of a church whose subordiante statement of faith states unequivocally (and backs it up eoth "scripture proof" from 2 Thess) that the Pope is the Antichrist. And the homophobia among the FC masses is palpable. Dont try to deny it DR, I've been there, Ive sat in the pews, I've had "fellowship" where the subject has been raised.

What is quite funny is that DR is reading a book by the Pope! Maybe he'll finish it when Ehud Olmert finishes reading "Mein Kampf"

504. Dawkins Delusion (3rd article, Same Stupid Title)

Comment #51670 by scottishgeologist on June 24, 2007 at 3:31 am

Frank Hodsons point "If I had visible evidence, then it would not be an act of faith on my part." is to me, what this whole debate is about. Once you start "provong " the existence of god, it is no longer a matter of faith, but of reason.

Religion is founded on the supernatural, which by its very nature CANNOT be proven empirically. The moment that you do find empirical, repeatable, testable evidence for something supernatural, it is ipso facto, no longer "supernatural"

Atheist and believers are essentailly working within two different frames of reference.

There are onl one or two places of intersection between the so called supernatural and the natural and that is where believers claim that prayer can make a difference. Prayer may make a differnece to the believer in that it gives them a cosy, snug feeling. But it makes no difference whatsoever to real life events, above and beyond whta you would statistically expect. It is a total waste of time. But still the delusion sticks.

I mentioned it once before. People are praying in loads of churches for that child that went missing in Portugal. Why doesnt God tell someone - you know - a quick word to a "godly" preacher during a prayer session - a simple address or phone number would do. Instead what do we have? Silence. Zilch. Yep, the power of prayer - stunning isnt it?

Religion is for losers.

505. Doctors' beliefs can hinder patient care

Comment #51381 by scottishgeologist on June 22, 2007 at 2:27 pm

Just wondering about the name. this guys name is "MArtin Gish". Gish is not exactly common. Is he in any way related to Duane Gish the prominent creationist?

506. 'Purity' ring case in High Court

Comment #51377 by scottishgeologist on June 22, 2007 at 2:15 pm

Just thought of something: "Mr and Mrs PLAYFOOT" Eh? WTF?

Is it just me, or is there not something deliciously fetishistic about that name?

Sort of makes me think of a nylon-encased foot being rubbed against a leg under the dinner table sort of thing....

But then again, given the obvious sexual hangups of the names owners, well, maybe no......

507. 'Purity' ring case in High Court

Comment #51374 by scottishgeologist on June 22, 2007 at 2:12 pm

There are a couple of things here. A girl wears a ring on her finger to school. Pretty inocuous - its not as if it was hanging from her lip. So did the school get all uppity and shout "hey you, get that ring off!" Which to me sounds OTT.

On the other hand (more info needed here) did the girl make a Big Thing about her chastity ring and start the evangie propaganda? In which case maybe the school has a point.

Whatever, the bottom line is the evangies are on a win/win here. Either she gets to keep the ring, which gives them the victory.

Mind you the article says she has left school - wonder where she went, Liberty U? :-)

Or they bleat (they're sheep after all) about persecution , martyrdom, these awful secularists, decline in moral standards, ad nauseam. And they will claim its vicimisation of Christians. Which every good fundie knows means victory.

There is a type of fundie who only feels he /she has got it right when they feel victimised for their faith.

You even get this phenomenon within denominations - the 2000 debacle within the Free Church of Scotland had plenty of this "precious" type of behaviour. Ask Wee Flea - he'll tell you!

508. 'Purity' ring case in High Court

Comment #51303 by scottishgeologist on June 22, 2007 at 8:45 am

Oh yes, 1st Thessalonians eh? How about this from chapter 5: 26: Greet all the brethren with an holy kiss

Tell me WTF is an holy kiss? And why do so few Christians ever do this? Can you imagine a big church congregation carrying this out to the letter? One massive snog-in?

509. 'Purity' ring case in High Court

Comment #51300 by scottishgeologist on June 22, 2007 at 8:40 am

Interesting to google some of this stuff and follow it through. Father is a pastor in a "charismatic evangelical" church. Great. Charismaniacs. Arm waving, tounge speaking, slain in the spirit "shine jesus shine" nutters.

Note the name of the church "Kings" church. A lot of these charismaniac types are right into this "Kingdom" ie dominionist theology. So lots of references to kingship and crown symbols and all that guff. Alpha course looms large over the web site. The God Delusion Indoctrination Course in other words.

How about this quote: "The church we see is impacting every aspect of our community and nation, bringing credible and authentic God centred counter culture. People who are living for the Kingdom of God, shaping and breaking into education, business, government, family life and social care"

This sort of pish is straight out the Bible Belt.

510. The God Delusion - Dawkins Feature

Comment #50782 by scottishgeologist on June 20, 2007 at 1:13 am

Pieter. this link must be the one:

http://www.bvcsm.com/

Notice the not so subtle opening date: 7/7/7 (777 the number of God as opposed to 666 the number of the beast...)

The usual creationist drivel

511. Rushdie knighted in honours list

Comment #50499 by scottishgeologist on June 18, 2007 at 1:05 pm

Friend Giskard: "Charles will be holding that sword very close to Rushdie's neck"

ROFLMAO!! Brilliant, wish I'd thought of it.

So instead of "Arise Sir Salman", its "Allahu Akhbar, die, infidel!!"

Wonder what Camilla makes of it "Gosh, Chas, that was so masterful, run your pork sword through me now... No No, No... Not Pork Camilla... AAAARGH!!

512. Atheists: stand up and be counted

Comment #50495 by scottishgeologist on June 18, 2007 at 12:54 pm

Diplo points out: "You only have to turn on the news, any day at any time, and see the first hand results of religious ideas being put into practice"

Exactly. Good point, well put. There is almost an unbroken band of religious lunacy from Gaza right the way to Pakistan of nutjobs killing each other in the name of religion. Absolutist "I'm right - you are wrong" BS

And then you've got the born again, dominionist, evangie cheer leaders in the West interfering in it, cheering it on and virtually coming in their pants at the expectation of the Messiah's return REAL SOON NOW as Microsoft would put it.

And now weve got this BS:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/6763119.stm

Because Rushdie got a knighthood.

The Endarkenment moves relentlessly on...

513. Should Science Speak to Faith? A dialog between Lawrence Krauss and Richard Dawkins

Comment #50164 by scottishgeologist on June 15, 2007 at 11:23 am

I love this "power of prayer" BS. Prayer is actually important - cos it is where the "supernatural" supposedly interfaces with the natural. Religites make claims about "prayer" - right test those claims, and see what happens. We all know what happens - you get exactly what you would expect to find using statistics and chance.

There is a glaring example of this failure of prayer right now in Europe. That little girl that is missing - there must be the equivalent of megatons of prayers being said for her and her family. What has it achieved so far? Zilch.

The questions to the religites are these:

1) God knows every thing, right?
2) So he knows where that girl is?
3) He knows who took her?
4) There are all these charismatic types that claim to have some sort of hotline to the sky fairy
5) So why doesnt he just tell one of them - an address, a phone number, a name, a grid ref.?

All this prayer after all, should be doing something, shouldnt it. Either God doesnt know, in which case he is not omniscient. Or he does, but just wants the parents to suffer for a while, maybe for the rest of their lives. In which case he is not a loving God. He is a c**t. Simple as that.

Of course, it could just be, it might just be, that maybe he just doesnt exist? And that prayer is just a total waste of time?

514. How Full Is Your Quiver?

Comment #50160 by scottishgeologist on June 15, 2007 at 11:11 am

I came across this quiverful nonsense a few months ago. The mind boggles at this. If you go to the www.quiverfull.com web site you will find a book advertised: "Birthing God's Mighty Warriors" The book description is very revealing:

"We are living in the last days. An annointed generation must come to earth to help prepare the way of the Lord. Many in this generation will be children. Will these chosen children be allowed to come? Satan is trying hard to prevent their conceptions and births. Birthing God's Mighty Warriors exposes how Satan has used the secular idea of choice and modern medical advances to convince God's people to limit their family size through birth control and sterilization."

Notice "Last days" In other words, Jesus will turn up real soon now, so screw the environment. Note also the militaristic tone to the whole thing. Dominionism gone mad.

BTW, as a slight aside, there is a famous massive family in Scotland - the Campbells of Struan in the Isle of Skye. I *think*, correct me if I am wrong, but Mrs Campbell had something like 20 kids. They are Free Presbyterians - the strictest, most fundie sect in protestantism: women not allowed to have short hair, women not allowed to wear trousers (pants for you Yanks!) Strict Sabbatarianism, no dancing, drinking or having any sort of fun. Seceded from the Free Church coz it wasnt fundie enough....

515. A Compass That Can Clash With Modern Life

Comment #49725 by scottishgeologist on June 13, 2007 at 7:02 am

Grown adults breast feeding? Drinking Mohammeds p*ss? FFS!!!! Infantilism, theo-urolagnia, what next? A bunch of perverts thats what they are.

You know, there comes a point where the only response is to shake ones head, speechless....

Actually, must say I was amused by:

"A woman at work can take off the veil or reveal her hair in front of someone whom she breast-fed."

Doesn't state what hair.:-))))

Mind you, there is that business about the 9/11 hijackers ritualistically shaving off all their body hair the night before the attack. The mind boggles.... I'm off!

516. Teaching assistant quit in protest at Harry Potter

Comment #48925 by scottishgeologist on June 9, 2007 at 3:32 pm

Note that this woman is described as "Pentecostal" in other words the absolute worst of the worst deluded.

Even the Christian preacher Campbell Morgan descried pentecostalism as "the last vomit of satan" Actually, Morgan was wrong. Vomit comes form the stomach. This worst possible manifestation of the delusion is straight from the rectum... Except satan doesnt exist, so he cant have a rectum......


Stupid bitch should stop and think (if that is possible) about what JK Rowling has actually achieved. She has produced huge tomes which kids AVIDLY read. Yes read. Not "sit in front of the TV",not "play video games", not "hang around on corners" but actually READ.

So what is this nutjob into then? After all these pentecostalists are into all sorts of crap: "speaking in tongues"? "prophesying"? "fake, sorry, faith healing"? rolling around the floor like a dipstick? Casting out demons? Holding her hands aloft as she is worked up into an altered state of consciousness by some "praise band" churning out inane repetitive childish drivel?

Give me Harry Potter any day. Actually, those of you who mnetioned Alan Garner are spot on. Man's a genius. Did anyone EVER properly understand his "The Owl Service" .Huge chunks of it up on Youtube if you care to look!

517. Debate between Richard Dawkins and Robert Winston

Comment #46715 by scottishgeologist on June 1, 2007 at 8:57 am

Stan, no point in asking a Scottish Presbyterian the answer to anything - they;ll just end up fighting over who has absolute truth. Like in this diagram:

http://website.lineone.net/~davghalgh/churchhistory.html

Yanks are just as bad:

http://www.pragmatism.org/american/presbyterian_churches.jpg

Now think about it, they cant ALL be right now can they?

Hah! That'll make sure you get a good nights sleep!

And Billy, Stob na Broige eh? Ah bliss. The soaring majesty of Glencoe. Love it!

Answer is obvious. Burn him in the whisky. Kill two satanic birds with one stone!

Have a good weekend!

518. Debate between Richard Dawkins and Robert Winston

Comment #46686 by scottishgeologist on June 1, 2007 at 5:44 am

David said:

"When I took my ordination vows, I made it quite clear that I did not accept the teaching that the Pope is the Antichrist. I do not know of a single Free Church minister who holds to that position"

OK.

On your church web site, it is clearly stated:

"The doctrinal standard of the Free Church is the Westminster Confession of Faith"

And on the web site, www.oasisedinburgh.com there is an article attributed to yourself in which you state:

"Our understanding of what the bible teaches is summarized in the Westminster Confession of Faith – which all office bearers in the Church subscribe to"

http://www.oasisedinburgh.com/alpha/_vti_cnf/ChristianTraditionsTheFreeChurchofScotland.htm for the link.

" ALL OFFICE BEARERS SUBSCRIBE TO. "

A Confession of Faith which states UNEQUIVOCALLY that the Pope is the Antichrist.

But you state that you dont believe this. And neither does a single FC minster that you know.

Amazing! Claim a standard, a set of rules, and then ignore them. Cos they might have been fashionable at one time, when anti Catholic discrimination was rife. But now they are an embarassment, so just ignore the bits you dont like, BUT STILL CLAIM THE WHOLE SET OF RULES.

And you wonder why free-thinkers dont take you seriously?

519. What I Think About Evolution

Comment #46545 by scottishgeologist on May 31, 2007 at 3:37 pm

"because the spiritual order and the material order were created by the same God"

He obviously takes it as axiomatic that God exists. No question about it. No debate. Zilch. All else springs from that. Why? Because it just is - here, I 've got the learned journal itself, the Bible.......

Brownback? Like is he into scat or what?

And as for that foot washing stuff, hey now we're talking. That hot little redhead in the front pew, dangling her high heel shoe on her dainty crimson painted nylon covered toes.... f***, I'd do more than just wash her feet....

Actually, this fetishistic practice deserves an entire thread, or maybe even forum to itself. Charismatic evangie types are really into it. Here is a particularly grim pic of it:

http://www.new-wine-scotland.org/IMG_1923.JPG

"Wendy gets her feet washed" is the caption.

And this particularly un-appetising incident happened as part of an evangie delusion-fest, mere yards from Scotlands most ancient and revered academic institution.....

http://www.new-wine-scotland.org/default.htm

Grim, absolutely grim....

520. Richard Dawkins and Alister McGrath

Comment #46507 by scottishgeologist on May 31, 2007 at 2:12 pm

Keith asked:

I actually started to wonder if he also talks to his wife and in this authoritative-lecturing style

Well if he's an Evangie, then his wife will know her place, ie baby factory. The man is the covenant head of the household. Woman is subservient. Bible tells us this. Also tells us that Christ is superior to the man, so there!

Go along to any evangie "fellowship" supper - you can bet your bottom dollar its 100% women who are doing the catering, cleaning up and so on.The men sit around and discuss heady matters as befits their covenantally superior position.

I know. I used to go there. I've seen it. And if like me, you are a man, and you DO help with the washing up, they look at you kinda funny.....

521. Debate between Richard Dawkins and Robert Winston

Comment #46467 by scottishgeologist on May 31, 2007 at 11:21 am

Hey Billy that was some diatribe back there. Take my hat off to that one. By the time I got to the end of it, you could almost visualise a smoking heap of spent verbal cartridges....

Methinks the Flea will be busy with one of his lengthy responses.

I hadnt noticed that you posted a comment about the Brahan Seer (in that unbelievably long Christadelphian thread) - fascinating tale that is - I have a book by Elizabeth Mackenzie which goes into it in depth - of course a lot of it is unprovable, and one of the suggestions was that he was "made up" after the events happened.

Very interesting nonetheless. Ended up being burnt in a tar barrel at Chanonry Point wasnt he?

522. Debate between Richard Dawkins and Robert Winston

Comment #46402 by scottishgeologist on May 31, 2007 at 6:03 am

pewcatchoo, I just love the way that evangelical believers like to attribute tectonic events to "sin" entering the world. They even quote the Bible where it talks of the "groans of creation"

The idea is that everything was just fine and dandy, cuddly lions and bears snuggling up beside lambs, gazelles and so on. No natural disasters, no illness, nothing.

And then someone took a bite out of a bit of fruit..... and the proverbial hit the fan. SIN was here!!!! Say it loudly, say it proudly : S - I - N !!!!!

As a geologist, i have to say it is certainly a novel way to explain plate tectonics. Dont ever remember reading about it in the "Journal of Petrology" or "Earth and Planetary Science Letters"

Maybe AiG has got some scholarly articles on it.

523. Debate between Richard Dawkins and Robert Winston

Comment #46394 by scottishgeologist on May 31, 2007 at 5:37 am

Billy, glad to oblige!

David seems to be unwilling or unable to answer properly explaining his own position on the papal antichrist. Seems to think it is not relevant to this thread or forum so he can just dismiss it.

Well it IS relevant - David himself mentioned the millions of Catholics - if you David are going to bring up a particular subject, then expect to be questioned on it you cant just duck it you know! - I asked him if he considered the leader of the RC church to be the Antichrist. He says he doesnt. That fine. I dont either.

Where it gets tricky however, is that David has solemnly, during his ordination vows, as a Free Church Minister, signed up and committed himself to the Westminster Confession of Faith (WCF) which unequivocally states that the Pope is the Antichrist.

For those who may have missed it:

WCF 25:6 "There is no other Head of the Church but the Lord Jesus Christ:anor can the Pope of Rome, in any sense be head thereof; but is that Antichrist, that man of sin and son of perdition, that exalteth himself in the Church against Christ, and all that is called God"

Ministers and elders "confess" this

If he didnt believe that when he took his ordination vows, then he was a liar, and deceitful. If he has changed his position on this (which is not at all unreasonable) then how can he honestly minister in a church which holds that view as part of its doctrine?

And things like this make me wonder what else does he no longer believe? That he vowed publicly that he DID. The problem for David and other so called "reformers" or "modernists" in the Free Church is that there are several embarassing issues like this (hich I mentioned before) They would rather just not talk about them and hope that nobody notices.

Hey maybe he is making the long journey from delusion to reason, starting with getting ris of the more ludicrous aspects of his indoctrination....

(For what its worth a LOT of conservative churches accept the WCF and subscribe to it as a Secondary Standard (after the Bible of course)

Also, if anyone cares to research it "ordination vows" and certain Free Church ministers is a very prickly subject. A new fundie denomination came into being in 2000 over the head of this.

Absolutely fascinating stuff....

524. Why Do Some People Resist Science?

Comment #46348 by scottishgeologist on May 31, 2007 at 2:24 am

ridelo

Yes, they are still broadcast - last years was all about numbers. There is a list of them all on the wilkipedia page:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Institution_Christmas_Lectures

Some tremendous names in that list!

525. Why Do Some People Resist Science?

Comment #46334 by scottishgeologist on May 31, 2007 at 1:18 am

I think Nails has a good point there. Its all about the protrayal of science. It IS seen as geeky. Say the word "scientist" and people will think of some mad, eccentric egghead character surrounded by bubbling retorts, cackling remarks like "Ahahhh!!! Eureka!!!!"

Either that or the image is of a 70s era Open University lecturer, complete with knittted mustard tie and ill fitting cordurouy jacket with leather elbow patches (No offence to the OU by the way!!)

There is a SERIOUS image problem with science. It just isnt cool enough, or should maybe that not be "k3wl"?

Trouble is, how do you make it attractive, something with mass appeal without splattering it with "dumb text speak", and lowering standards.

Maybe the RI lectures are the way to do it:

The RI Christmas lectures are a great way to show how it CAN be presented well without dumbing down. Trouble is, programmes like that are the exception. There are very few decent science progs on TV now.

The best that TV gets, IMO, is the wildlife programmes - some of these are of an obviously very high standard. There is also a considerable increase in wildlife related tourism, certainly in a lot of parts of Scotland, so perhaps its not all bad. There is definitely a big demand and a big market for this type of biological science type documentary stuff.


Maybe people can relate to animals better than other science subjects? Just a thought or two.

526. Debate between Richard Dawkins and Robert Winston

Comment #46166 by scottishgeologist on May 30, 2007 at 12:34 pm

Steve99, you mentioned video experiences where you could not trust your own eyes. I am reminded of a set of optical illusions which appeared as a link from Randi's website www.randi.org The actual illusions are here:

http://web.mit.edu/persci/people/adelson/checkershadow_illusion.html


The other illusions on that site are good as well, but beware of any background music!

Unbelievable!

Which just shows the need for proper measurement and analytical rigour, instead of "it just must be because it seems like it!"

527. Debate between Richard Dawkins and Robert Winston

Comment #46162 by scottishgeologist on May 30, 2007 at 12:25 pm

Billy, some good points getting flagged up here! Re the Attenborough quote about the river blindness worm - thats a good one. I notice in another thread that you posted the wonderful Eric Idle parody "All things dull and ugly". Which says the same thing in an amusing way. Its in this thread:

http://richarddawkins.net/article,1142,Prayer-can-improve-physical-health,Tamara-McLean-theaustraliannewscomau

And as for that Pope as Antichrist confession bit - I challenged Wee Flea on that a short while ago - dont think we got a reply.

There are actually, I think, several doctrines that these people, and I mean evangelicals in a broad sense, "confess" but dont actually believe. "Pope as Antichrist" is one. I suspect "Eternal damnation in the flames of hell" is another. "Women to stay silent in church" would be another.

The fact is that these doctrines are actually embarassing to them. Which is why they dont preach on them very often. Cant blame them.

528. I Don't Believe in Atheists

Comment #45901 by scottishgeologist on May 29, 2007 at 2:51 pm

Going back to the title, "Does God Believe in Atheists" was the name of a book by "Dr" (ie diploma mill) John Blanchard, one of the UKs "leading Christian apologists"

Got to this link to find out the sort of stuff this guy writes:

http://www.johnblanchard.org/books.htm

And if you go through the list (if you can be bothered) note the comments on the book "Has Science got rid of God" All those reviewers with all those postnomials. Gosh they must be so clever.....

529. The Dawkins delusion

Comment #45898 by scottishgeologist on May 29, 2007 at 2:25 pm

Bonzai, you make a lot of good points there. Re wishy washiness - certainly a lot of "liberal" or perhaps the word shoudl be "nominal" christians are very wishy washy. They really havent a clue why they "believe" what they believe. "Going to church" for the social bonding often seems to be the most important thing to them.

And even among evangies, I have heard a few interesting snippets. A close female relative of mine (a Christian) once pointed out, on the death of an aunt, "I suppose she is in heaven now" Note: "suppose" Hardly a ringing statement of absolute "truth" OK that's just an anecdote, but I suspect that that degree of wishy washiness is actually more common than we think among evangies.

Certainly a lot of people I know who are "evangelical" supposedly, seldom talk about their "faith" - almost as if they want to keep it private. And just for Wee Fleas benefit, a lot of these people I am talking about are Free Church of Scotland members!

Interesting you mention Spong - I often wonder about him. He must be the best example of a "christian" who is virtually an atheist but just cant take that final small step! It seems to me that Richard Holloway is very similar. Holloway is also a fan of RD! He endorses the DVD advertised on this site!

530. Exorcism exercise for fired-up faithful

Comment #45643 by scottishgeologist on May 28, 2007 at 4:22 pm

Interesting that the church is called "New Life" This is the name of Ted Haggards church in Colorado Springs. Well it was his church until he got rumbled.

Are these New Life churches (and there seems to be a lot of them worldwide) related at all. Or is it just a name?

Maybe Ted was posessed by a demon....

531. Christian sports workers degree ridiculed

Comment #45465 by scottishgeologist on May 27, 2007 at 11:42 pm

NMcC - maybe a bit of clarification needed here - I gave two examples of Rangers songs simply because like all the kids in my school we were all Rangers fans. OK, there was the odd Hearts fan or maybe even Partick Thistle, but it was overwhelmingly Rangers. Not because of any current bias that particular way!

And yes, the words are wrong - shows how silly the whole thing is, doesnt it?

The catholics had their own songs and chants - I never seemed to hear them so often however. Maybe a few visits to Parkhead would have sorted that one out!

When I was at school the hatreds were almost palpable. However, 30 years on, from what I gather on my visits home, its almost disappeared. I used to see "F*ck the Pope" and "F*ck the Queen" grafitti regularly. Always abbreviated to FTP / FTQ. Seldom see it now.

Surely a sign that that particular religious divide is disappearing. And a good thing too. But I wonder if the divide is disappearing because people are growing tolerant, or because of secularisation.

(As a complete aside, I was talking to a rather well known Rangers fan (not saying who he is!) about what was needed to put a web site together as he was interested - I mentioned that after creating the pages, he needed to "FTP" them up to the web server. You should have seen his ears prick up at that!!!)

532. Al Gore on Reason

Comment #45131 by scottishgeologist on May 26, 2007 at 1:25 pm

Skeptic Jims point is good. The creationist viewpoint, generally, is that the earth was created "good" by God, that man (well, Eve, really, lets blame the woman) came along and generally screwed it up. Since then, it has been a place of condemnation (hence Satan as the prince of the World) Ultimately, there will be a "new Heaven and new earth" and jesus will return.

And all you atheists will BURN, BURN, BuRN!!!! Damn you all!!!

Actually, the Sun will become a red giant and expand and destroy the Earth, but lets not worry about that sort of "fact"

So the bottom line is this: the earth is fucked anyway, so why bother about all this green stuff? Thats just homo liberal lesbian, gaia worshipping, abortionist, earth mother BS. Fuck it. Drive your SUV, (but pray for lower gas prices) pollute, burn coal, oil, wood, Jesus is coming!!!!

533. Christian sports workers degree ridiculed

Comment #45126 by scottishgeologist on May 26, 2007 at 12:58 pm

The article states: "It is designed to help Christians build community relations through sport."

Community relations? Whats that? Surely the wy to build relations between communities is to leave the religion out of it and let the sport do the talking! Sport is a great leveller - we only need to think of the famous football match in the first world war- link here: http://homeboynet.wordpress.com/2006/10/17/letter-documenting-historic-%E2%80%98wwi-christmas-truce-football-match%E2%80%99-found/

Otherwise, the only reason can be proselytising. As a Scot, I am well familiar with our own particular brand of "sport and religion" which manifests itslef at every Rangers Celtic game.I went to a typical Scottish secondary school where it was commonplace to sing sectarian songs - always related to the Rangers Celtic thing:

Such as ( variant on the Sash)

" My father was an Orangeman
in the bygone days of yore,
when they hung (sic) the Pope,
From an orange rope
in the sash my father wore"

or how about ( to the tune of "Marching through Georgia):


"Hullo, hullo, we are the Derry boys,
hullo, hullo, you can tell us by the noise,
Were up to our necks in Fenian blood
Surrender or you'll die
We are the Londonderry Boys
Fuck the Pope!"

Now you might think this is the stuff of Buckfast swilling neds at Ibrox. Think again. Top legal eagles are guilty of this. Such as Donald Findlay , QC. And you dont get higher up the Scottish legal system than that. Full story here:

http://news.scotsman.com/scotland.cfm?id=594022005

Thats just one aspect of it. I didnt mention Marvin Andrews (Trinidad and Tobago) who played for Rangers for a bit. Apparently he believes that people can be resurrected from the dead. Arch-charismatic, born again nutjob, deluded to the nth degree. And guess what, Marvin Andrews features in the youth magazine of the Free Church of Scotland!!!!! Yes, David "Wee flea" Robertsons church.

Link here: (Its a pdf of the whole magazine so be patient)

http://www.freechurch.org/pdf/free/aprilmay07.pdf

Religion and Sport do NOT mix. Keep them separate. Please.....

534. Angry atheists are hot authors

Comment #44488 by scottishgeologist on May 25, 2007 at 1:00 am

Brilliant link to that video of Phelps. I just love the way these guys try to outdo one another to try to be the "True Believer" (TM) (as Pastor Deacon Fred would say.

And they are all so sure that they are right and that everyone else is wrong.

Been said that patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel. Could also add that religion is the last refuge of the nutjob.

535. Lightning damages Jesus statue

Comment #44375 by scottishgeologist on May 24, 2007 at 12:55 pm

Hey, maybe they could get a "fake (sorry, faith) healer" to heal the statue and put the arm back.

Oh dear, silly me, God doesnt heal amputees.....

www.whydoesgodhateamputees.com

Excellent site by the way.

536. Would the World Be Safer Without Religion?

Comment #44370 by scottishgeologist on May 24, 2007 at 12:49 pm

David Robertson said:

And the point of these questions is?

Quite simple really. You brought up the issue of Catholics and I just wanted to know what you made of catholicism. After all, when you were ordained as a minister, you took a vow which says:


"I do hereby declare, that I do sincerely own and believe the whole doctrine contained in the Confession of Faith, approven by General Assemblies of this Church to be the truths of God; and I do own the same as the confession of my faith"

The Confession of Faith unequivocally identified the Pope as the Antichrist. Yet you are saying that you dont believe it!!

Tell me what else do you not beleive that you publicly subscribed to? No wonder the fundies walked out of your church in January 2000....

If any of you are really bored, the details of this event are here (from Wikipedia):

Over a period from the late 1980s to 2000 some people in the Free Church of Scotland had concerns about allegations, both moral and spiritual, against Professor Donald Macleod.[1]

In January 2000 more than twenty ministers (some of whom were retired) refused to accept a decision of the General Assembly on this matter. Because of alleged contumacy, they were removed from their pulpits and forbidden to preach anywhere, and other ministers were given charge of their congregations.

Those expelled ministers and other sympathetic ministers now constitute the Free Church of Scotland (Continuing). They sued the Free Church of Scotland, claiming to be the legitimate owners of the property and assets held by the denomination. The court ultimately decided against them, and they deferred from pursuing the case by way of Appeal. They are less than 20% of the ministerial strength of the pre-2000 Free Church of Scotland


Sounds pythonesque, doesnt it?

537. Would the World Be Safer Without Religion?

Comment #44363 by scottishgeologist on May 24, 2007 at 12:39 pm

Billy

I think it might be the case that the swings in Stornoway are no longer locked up on a Saturday evening. Actually, i heard a good story about it -someone reckoned it was NOT to stop the kids "sabbath breaking" but to stop the drunks rolling home from the pubs doing themselves a mischief!

But its true, they did used to lock them up. The fact that they dont now begs a question or two. Has God called some minister on the phone to say "OK, its alright, I'm loosening and lightening up a bit - take the chains off the swings!"

538. Lightning damages Jesus statue

Comment #44360 by scottishgeologist on May 24, 2007 at 12:29 pm

All this thanks to God for his mercy style of BS reminds me of this highly irritating cartoon:

http://www.answersingenesis.org/aftereden/view.aspx?id=198

If you really want to feel irritated, check out the rest of these 'toons. They are ALMOST as bad as the Chick tracts.

539. Dental healer finds share of faithful believers

Comment #43949 by scottishgeologist on May 23, 2007 at 4:40 am

Hey a real live Tooth Fairy!!!!

I am sure that James Randi would like to hear about it - after all there is $1000000 waiting for this guy. Just think how that money could be used to indoctrinate, lie, deceive, cheat and bullshit. Sorry I meant to say "advance the Kingdom...."

But seriously, whenever I see pictures of these assholes with their arms in the air like that, I think "what a bunch of assholes"......

Do they ever look at themselves doing that? Dont they ever stop to think "I look like a complete asshole with my arm up in the air?"

Of all the deluded faith heads, the very worst are the charismaniacs who indulge in this sort of stupidity.

540. Would the World Be Safer Without Religion?

Comment #43768 by scottishgeologist on May 22, 2007 at 2:24 pm

Weeflea said: "Firstly religion has not fizzled out in Europe (try telling that to the Polish Catholics..."

So tell me David, are Catholics Christians? A simple yes or no will suffice.

Reason I ask is this: as an ordained minister in the Free Church of Scotland, you accept (as part of your ordination vows) the Westminster Confession of Faith, which states:

"There is no other head of the Church but the Lord Jesus Christ.[13] Nor can the Pope of Rome, in any sense, be head thereof; but is that Antichrist, that man of sin, and son of perdition, that exalts himself, in the Church, against Christ and all that is called God"

Do you honestly believe that the Pope is the Antichrist?

541. Prayer can improve physical health

Comment #43764 by scottishgeologist on May 22, 2007 at 1:47 pm

Billy Sands said: "amputees growing new limbs isn't quantifyable"

Funny thing is, and I have often wondered about this is that crustaceans can grow new claws - crabs regularly lose claws and grow new ones.

So new limbs isnt really a big deal - if crustaceans can do it, then the idea is already there. Presumably "God" "allows" this to happen amongst the crabs, so why doesnt she/he/it allow it among humans?

After all, praying for a new limb and then growing one - hey, that would kill atheism overnight....

Much more convincing than having some sort of vague "pain" in the back which gets "cured" after spending a few hours in the company of a bunch of "healing" charismaniacs.

542. Prayer can improve physical health

Comment #43750 by scottishgeologist on May 22, 2007 at 12:34 pm

All this "prayer" BS reminds me of that other BS connected with miracles which is equally stupid. Concerning the assassination attempt on the Pope John Paul II, Dawkins himself said:

"He suffered an assassination attempt in Rome and attributed his survival to the intervention of Our Lady of Fatima. A maternal hand guided the bullet. One cannot help wondering why she didn't guide it to miss him altogether."

Maybe those praying for him werent praying hard enough - maybe it wasnt "fervent" enough. You know , a bit more oomph, a bit more fervency, a bit more shreiking and pleading and hey, Fatima might have been able to make the bullet miss altogether. Or caused the gun to jam. That would have been neat. Hey, maybe that HAS happened, dozens of times - dozens of would be Popeicides averted by jammed guns brought about by "much fervent" prayer. Hah! Go on you godless atheists, prove otherwise!! Hah!

Prayer isnt just BS, its testable BS. And in every PROPER test ever done it fails. Fails every time.

543. Goodness without Godliness

Comment #42888 by scottishgeologist on May 20, 2007 at 4:18 am

Reg:
"Sold a Fender guitar amp to marry a faith head" hey that's serious.... thats about as serious as it gets, with the possible exception of throwing in a vintage Stratocaster as well.....

Imagine abandoning the sheer joy of "Gimme Shelter" for the saccharine horrors of "Shine Jesus Shine".... I feel for your friend.... deeply...

544. Four arrested in Iraq 'honor killing'

Comment #42881 by scottishgeologist on May 20, 2007 at 4:04 am

From wikipedia:

"Yazidi are exclusive; clans do not intermarry even with other Kurds and accept no converts. They claim that they are descended only from Adam."

Only decended from the male, so that's womens low status even lower then...

But hey, so called "Christians" in the west can hardly complain. After all:

(1st Timothy 2)
11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. 12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. 13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. 15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.

Note carefully, this is NOT Old Testament teaching, this is NT. So its not so easy for the faith heads to dismiss it.

Oh yes, I wonder what that new female moderator of the general assembly of the church of scotland makes of it all...

545. Pedal power takes Islamic shape in Iran

Comment #42433 by scottishgeologist on May 18, 2007 at 7:37 am

Hmmmm. Wonder if "snarging" is un-islamic. If so, what would the penalty be....

From the Urban Dictionaary:

Snarging: To gain erotic pleasure from the sniffing of bicycle saddles.

Traditionally, the snurger would be an old man and the target of his nasal attention would be a saddle recently vacated by a young lady.

"Hey! Stop snurging my saddle, you pervert!"

Link: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Snurging

:-)))))

BTW, I remember, a long time ago at school, that the word used to describe such a person was a "planth" Never, ever, ever heard it before or since. Ah, the joys of a Scottish education - old John Knox would have been proud.

546. Pedal power takes Islamic shape in Iran

Comment #42378 by scottishgeologist on May 18, 2007 at 6:12 am

Devolution, your comments were extremely amusing. Thanks for that...still chortling

But on the women and bike theme, presumably the Islamofascists are worried about this ever happening:

http://luthor.altervista.org/queen01.jpg

547. The Fastest-Growing Religion

Comment #42359 by scottishgeologist on May 18, 2007 at 5:37 am

Uzi:

A couple of points re your post: A member of the Glencoe Mountain Rescue Team (one of Scotlands busiest) has said that Glencoe is his "church"

Also, there is the fact that a lot of churches have been turned into indoor climbing venues - the steeples make a great place for a wall!

548. The Fastest-Growing Religion

Comment #42357 by scottishgeologist on May 18, 2007 at 5:34 am

Hey Yorker, your comment reminded me of George Carlins take on religion. Heres a link to it here:

http://www.rense.com/general69/obj.htm

Seriously funny, (esp the Joe Pesci bit!)

The Sun bit is here:

"So rather than be just another mindless religious robot, mindlessly and aimlessly and blindly believing that all of this is in the hands of some spooky incompetent father figure who doesn't give a shit, I decided to look around for something else to worship. Something I could really count on.

And immediately, I thought of the sun. Happened like that. Overnight I became a sun-worshipper. Well, not overnight, you can't see the sun at night. But first thing the next morning, I became a sun-worshipper. Several reasons. First of all, I can see the sun, okay? Unlike some other gods I could mention, I can actually see the sun. I'm big on that. If I can see something, I don't know, it kind of helps the credibility along, you know? So everyday I can see the sun, as it gives me everything I need; heat, light, food, flowers in the park, reflections on the lake, an occasional skin cancer, but hey. At least there are no crucifixions, and we're not setting people on fire simply because they don't agree with us.

Sun worship is fairly simple. There's no mystery, no miracles, no pageantry, no one asks for money, there are no songs to learn, and we don't have a special building where we all gather once a week to compare clothing. And the best thing about the sun, it never tells me I'm unworthy. Doesn't tell me I'm a bad person who needs to be saved. Hasn't said an unkind word. Treats me fine. So, I worship the sun. But, I don't pray to the sun. Know why? I wouldn't presume on our friendship. It's not polite."

Wonderful!

549. Television evangelist Falwell dies at 73

Comment #41345 by scottishgeologist on May 16, 2007 at 1:07 am

Looks like our old friend Phelps is quick off the mark:

http://www.godhatesfags.com/fliers/may2007/20070515_jerry-falwell-funeral.pdf

550. The Creation Museum: Prepare to believe

Comment #41340 by scottishgeologist on May 16, 2007 at 12:32 am

"Please continue to pray for us as we are now just 2 1/2 weeks from our May 28 Grand Opening!"

Why? Why pray at all? Presumably the Big Fairy Up There is watching and listening. DOes he think, "Hey lots of these guys giving me lots of praise and prayer, yes, I like that, I need lots of prayer, else I'll do some smitin' and rapin' and pillagin' , but these guys are "fervent" in their quiet time, I'll make sure its a success".

Creation Museum: PTL! Raise his sweet name! Glory!

Or is it a case of "Hey you lot, you havent been obsequious enough to me, RESPECT dudes, I need prayer and lots of it to feed my ego. So I am not going to allow it to succeed. So there! F*ck you Ken Ham. (Ham was cursed anyway. And beside pig flesh is unclean) Nah, nah, nah, nah....."

Creation Museum: He must have other plans. Satan is at work. Must be homos on our staff. Or single mothers. Or blacks. Or Catholics. PTL! etc etc etc....