551. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #167247 by Frankus1122 on April 23, 2008 at 7:15 pm

You know nothing about God. God is good and just. He created man is His image with free will. Man used that free will to disobey God. Man is fallen. All man is sinful. For example, you sinned quite a bit in your post. God is holy and just. He cannot allow sin in His presence for He is Holy. Man is separated from God. God is love. He does not want man to be separated from Him. He loves man so much he sends His only Son to live a sinless life, and die as a propitiation for man's sins. All those that accept Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior are counted righteous in front of God through Christ's sacrifice. Salvation is by God's grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone. Many has a free will to accept or reject this plan of salvation. Those that accept it have eternal life. Those that choose to reject it choose their own destiny, separation from God. God is just in that he will give us what we choose. End of story.

Translation: You have poo on your face.

Use Dr. Benway's cloth and try to wipe some of that off will ya?

552. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #167241 by Frankus1122 on April 23, 2008 at 7:02 pm

A tip o' the hat for that succinct list

So steveroot are you saying that my saying he has shit on his face wasn't good enough?

Okay, I admit that Dr. Benway's list is more polite and accurate way of saying essentially the same thing.
Her list is the cloth with which he can wipe the shit off.

Do either of you think it will work?
For Remnant's sake I will pray that it does.

553. Open Letter to a victim of Ben Stein's lying propaganda

Comment #167234 by Frankus1122 on April 23, 2008 at 6:39 pm

Comment #167230 by phatbat

Why didn't it occur to respond to the points put to u before asking another question.

perhapse you could have said something like - I have read the argument which says ....... and here is why i disagree with it. But no, you have done exactly what one would expect had you never read any of the well established responses to your points or you have read them and you haven't got a response of your own.

You've got it phatbat.

There is no honest attempt at dialogue and learning because if he made any attempt to learn he would realize how flimsy his 'evidence' actually is. He would of course see that there is no evidence. I suspect he knows this and is afraid. He must have some inkling of how wrong he is because of all the answers we have given him.
Why run from the truth Truth? The truth will set you free.

554. Open Letter to a victim of Ben Stein's lying propaganda

Comment #167229 by Frankus1122 on April 23, 2008 at 6:30 pm

Cartomancer, you are a beautiful man.

555. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #167217 by Frankus1122 on April 23, 2008 at 6:14 pm

Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.

Yuck!
That's gross, man.

Sorry Remnant I woke up unsaved.
Your prayer didn't work.
We win, you lose.

You: "But prayer doesn't work like that...blah, blah, blah.....

BOOORING!

I hope eveyone now has a more healthy respect for Kardashovel.
This guy is worse than wooter. Well..., I don't know. At least I can understand Remnant's grammar. Maybe that makes him seem worse. You'd think that he might try to find the counter-arguments to all his claims. They are readily available. But nooo. He has to quote the Bible at us to show the truth of what he is saying.

Remnant plug your ears, I'm about to use a potty word.

I see you as having shit coming out of your mouth. Everyone can see it. Everyone is trying to tell you: "Hey, you have shit dribbling out of your mouth. You might want to wipe that off. We are in a public place. That must be embarassing for you."
But your response is: "Oh yeah? Well, you have poo coming out of your mouth!"
Us: "No, really. Look in a mirror. Here is a napkin. We'll help you wipe it off. It is disgusting."
You: "No, you are disgusting. All of you have poo on your face!"
We all look at each other and can see our faces are clean. Then we look back at your shit covered maw.
Us: "Sorry, you are mistaken. There is a water fountain over here you can wash off in. It is really gross and you smell bad."
You: "No! You are like that!"

What do we do with you?

Look in a mirror. A real mirror; not a fun house mirror. A little self-reflection is in order.

556. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #166751 by Frankus1122 on April 23, 2008 at 12:09 pm

Censorship of opposing thought

No, more like opposition of a lack of thought.


Skimming through the last few pages is like watching a cat with a mouse.
More like a herd of cats with a mouse.

557. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #166120 by Frankus1122 on April 22, 2008 at 7:02 pm

Note to self:

Wake up "Saved" cuz I got prayed for.

Go over to FCOS site and proclaim that prayer actually does work.

558. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #166112 by Frankus1122 on April 22, 2008 at 6:56 pm

Then I suggest you get away from yourself for a bit.
You'll feel much better.

Ouch!
Ooooh, I've been burned.
How about you turn the other cheek so I can smack that one too?
I'll smack all four cheeks if you let me you naughty boy.

Actually, I'm going to bed.
Pray for me!

559. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #166107 by Frankus1122 on April 22, 2008 at 6:48 pm

Comment #166103 by Remnant

You know that feeling you get when you encounter someone who is really stupid; so stupid they don't even realize how stupid they are?
I have that feeling now.

560. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #166084 by Frankus1122 on April 22, 2008 at 6:10 pm

Comment #166075 by gr8hands

And not to put too fine a point on it, all theists who believe in an afterlife/heaven are hypocrites.

There is no afterlife.
I don't know why it never occurred to me before a few days ago, but there is no evidence for an afterlife.
That is why theists act the way they do at death.
There is not one shred of evidence in all of recorded history of life after death.
There are a lot of ghost stories and seance-type nonsense, and general lies and wishful thinking, but no evidence.

When we die we die.

I think everyone knows this. Everyone has to know this because there is no evidence to the contrary. Absolutely none.
You, who are reading this now, have never talked to a dead person. No one you know has ever talked to a dead person or had any contact with anyone from the 'beyond'.

I wish that it were otherwise. I like being alive. I do not want to die. But I will and that will be the end of me as me.
Wishful thinking does not alter reality. It may alter my perception of reality, and perhaps this is what those who seek God are after.

561. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #166076 by Frankus1122 on April 22, 2008 at 5:59 pm

Comment #166073 by Goldy

God does not exist.

Why did that make me laugh?

562. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #166074 by Frankus1122 on April 22, 2008 at 5:57 pm

Comment #166070 by Caldur
"Sanity is not statistical." -Winston from George Orwell's 1984

In case it wasn't already painfully obvious, saying that something is true because people have believed it for centuries is ridiculous.

Of course this makes sense to you. And to all other humans who understand and use logic to conduct their daily lives.

But if Revermant's God can be outside time and space, why would he have to be bound by the logic of humans?

God's ways are not man's ways.
But Remnant is a man (I think).
Is he saying that he is not bound by human logic?
Is Revermannat claiming to be God himself?

563. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #166072 by Frankus1122 on April 22, 2008 at 5:50 pm

MPhil:

If "logic has proven" god... please give a logical formal proof in the Kalish-Montague calculus (or any other accepted logical calculus), including axioms and inference rules for every step, starting only from logical tautologies as premises. You may use first or even second order predicate logic with identity, lambda and iota operators, and modal logic as well.

You sound like my old logic professor, who I just looked up and discovered has written a book on the question of God.

Logic and Theism:
Arguments for and against Beliefs in God

Here's a link. You can read the first section.

http://www.scar.utoronto.ca/~sobel/L_T/

564. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #166055 by Frankus1122 on April 22, 2008 at 5:33 pm

Remnant,

You can't just make stuff up and expect people to believe it is true.

You make all sorts of extra Biblical claims about God.
How do you know all this stuff?
I think you just make it up and wish it to be true.
Be honest.

565. Open Letter to a victim of Ben Stein's lying propaganda

Comment #166044 by Frankus1122 on April 22, 2008 at 5:22 pm

Sorry to comment so lately on this and I supposed chewbacca's gone but

I dare say you will eventually resort to telling me plainly that my love for my daughter is based on those cascades of enzymes and electricity that I mentioned earlier. Don't you see? Your way's no fun!

I don't understand this.

My daughter just came home and as I write this I am feeling an immense amount of love for her. I will have to go and hug her now.
I got a kiss from boy too.
Have I ever got the cascading electro-chemical enzymes going now!
No fun?
Are you crazy?!
I love my children. They love me.
There is a physical process that goes on inside of us that explains the feelings we have.
It doesn't make it less fun or less loving.
Don't you see? Your way is denying the truth of our existence.
This is the way it is.
No made-up stuff.

566. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #166007 by Frankus1122 on April 22, 2008 at 4:55 pm

1Co 2:10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

Blah, blah, blah, blaheth, blah, blah, blah, yea, blah, blaheth.

567. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #165877 by Frankus1122 on April 22, 2008 at 1:51 pm

Remmnant,

Organisms evolve through random mutation and natural selection.


This is a demonstrable fact.

Get over it.

568. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #165866 by Frankus1122 on April 22, 2008 at 1:42 pm

Comment #165835 by Steve Zara

We should not be too harsh on Kardashovel. He has argued robustly, but has admitted that he was mistaken about one point. That is to be respected, especially considering the general quality of debate from believers we get here.

I am in total agreement. Kardashovel has, for the most part, been a good/worthy opponent. He has let loose a few barbs but it is not like anyone here has never done that. Sometimes you get caught up emotionally in an argument and you may get frustrated with your adversary's inability to understand your point. You may be wrong with the point you are trying to make, but not, of course, to you.

Karda is at least not the "then why are there still apes then? Atheist losers!" type.

I still think he is completely bonkers when it comes to the time travelling alien God idea of his but hey, nobody's perfect. :)

569. Open Letter to a victim of Ben Stein's lying propaganda

Comment #165861 by Frankus1122 on April 22, 2008 at 1:23 pm

"My she's a pretty girl. it is a gift of her creator. He has shown great love toward her." I don't want to think, "her face has the proper dimensions and her skin the correct chemical composition, and reflects the ambient light of the web cam she used to produce this picture, such that I would like to trap her in a thicket and procreate with her. And modern surgical techniques could make her even more desirable."

Umm..eew?

Why would you make up stuff?
Why would you say her face is a "gift of the creator"? and "He has shown great love toward her." ?

Why is this necessary?

And as for the last part of the quotation,
Who would do that? Again, nuttiness. No one does that.
There may be neuro-chemical reasons for attraction I have toward my wife. That does not mean I am not attracted to her.
There may be "materialistic" reasons why I love my children. It does not mean that I do not love my children.
I do not need to invent reasons to love them. God is not necessary for my love. God does not add to the love of my children. God is an unecessary invention.

570. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #165793 by Frankus1122 on April 22, 2008 at 10:47 am

I mentioned the philosopher Mark Kingwell on this or another thread. He said you should be able to state the main point of your thesis while standing on one leg.

I am wondering if Kardashovel can do this?

I am enjoying the ride but I am wondering where we are heading.

571. If God Is Dead, Who Gets His House?

Comment #165767 by Frankus1122 on April 22, 2008 at 9:20 am

PS- is it me, or is this site really slow today?
Outrageously slow. Slower than a badgers arse.

Thanks. That saves a call to the IT department.

572. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #165575 by Frankus1122 on April 21, 2008 at 5:52 pm

Comment #165564 by Dr Benway

Pre-election jitters?

Have your TV faces pre-primed with the Jesus feeling say nice things about your privitization idea. Then have some unpleasant homos on the screen arguing against your plan.

Media Literacy is an important part of education.

You would think that once one has been shown the trick one would be less likely to fall for it.

Certain words can trigger a sense of trust and fulfillment. I call that, "the Jesus feeling."

I got a "Jesus feeling" of quite a different sort from this video I came across on a Facebook group:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYsClDclvf0

Edit: Okay if that last video was icky try this one for a laugh:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J471VobaZks&feature=related

573. Gods and earthlings

Comment #165549 by Frankus1122 on April 21, 2008 at 4:27 pm

Hey! Leave poor old wooter alone.

What has he ever done to you?
He provides you with a rich pile of compost out of which you grow wonderfully magnificent barbed flowers of derision.

There, there wooter. bad LOGIC men are not so evolution as clearmind who knows ID.
More ID clearmind. Tell us how God and Jesus did it.

574. Open Letter to a victim of Ben Stein's lying propaganda

Comment #165527 by Frankus1122 on April 21, 2008 at 3:00 pm

So why do you believe in evolution?

No fair! You have to answer first.


(But I don't believe in evolution, I understand it).

Go run off and get some learning in ya.

575. Open Letter to a victim of Ben Stein's lying propaganda

Comment #165515 by Frankus1122 on April 21, 2008 at 2:46 pm

So, please, read the link. Do it for the children.

Do it for your country and its economy too.

Do it because everyone on this planet is stuffed if you don't.

Just one more: Do it because God wants you to not be an ignorant representative of Him.
(He told me, that's how I know).

Seriously, learn all you can. Look at the question from both sides. You have the 'Answersin Genisis' answers and the 'information' from the Discovery Institue, now how about looking at some of the sources you have been directed to from this site?
Bite us in the ass with evidence from the sources provided.
Or answer epeeist's question.
Or go away.

576. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #165510 by Frankus1122 on April 21, 2008 at 2:35 pm

Comment #165499 by Quetzalcoatl

Hmmm.

I was kind of liking Kardashovel's fiction. Then you had to come along and ruin it all with your 'science' and 'facts'.

Thanks Quetzalcoatl!



BTW: I am joking most of the time but I rarely put smiley faces and the like at the end of posts. It is more mysterious that way. I liken it to Biblical interpretation. "Is that for real or just a metaphor?"
In the future when people look back on my posts and try to determine what I actually meant (which I am positive they will), they will have ample dross to argue and speculate about. I am sowing the seeds for my future as a god-head. :)

577. A Conversation with Expelled's Associate Producer Mark Mathis

Comment #165500 by Frankus1122 on April 21, 2008 at 2:23 pm

I have listened to this 3 times. I like it that much.

Comment #165210 by HMS Polio

Hahahaha! That was funny.
I got out of the shower to hear a knock on the door. I put on a bathrobe and answered to find two Blue Nuns (?). After a bit of talk I wanted them to leave so I let my bathrobe fall open.
They got flustered and left.
Was I wrong to do such a thing?

578. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #165428 by Frankus1122 on April 21, 2008 at 1:12 pm

epeeist:
Cool!
I really enjoyed the photos.

Diacanu:

I'm not worried about the guy like he is going to hurt me personally. Although his stupidity worries me. I am afraid there are too many people who think (sic) like him and are able to attain positions of power that can affect my life. Like your president. And our Prime Minister.
Both are anti-science people. They make decisions based on Biblical readings.
Our guy fired the national science advisor. He basically said that his services were no longer required. Our PM will go it alone.
Now I don't think Steven Harper (PM) is as stupid as Navy Joke but he has a lot of dumbass guys with similiar views surrounding him.
That is what worries me.

579. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #165391 by Frankus1122 on April 21, 2008 at 12:35 pm

Comment #165383 by navyjoke95

You worry me.

But then you say really dumb stuff like this:

and yes, I've been shot at - by God-hating Commie-hearted Athiest Jihad bastards like you

And then I think you are so stupid that you are not worth worrying about.

But the sheer number of you worries me.

580. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #165334 by Frankus1122 on April 21, 2008 at 11:01 am

Comment #165316 by navyjoke95 :


Stay and learn.
Or go away.

There is an opportunity for you to find out what the devil knows. Get as close as you can the the forbidden knowledge. You can recant on your deathbed but in the meantime you will approach the knowledge that God does not want you to have.
C'mon. It'll be fun!

581. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #165309 by Frankus1122 on April 21, 2008 at 10:15 am

From keith:

I think the whole thesis should be written on the back cover and anyone who wants to understand the ideas in greater detail (e.g. rival philosophers, close friends and family members who should be seen to be taking an interest) can actually open the book and read bits of it.

We have a philospher here in Toronto, Mark Kingwell, who said something very similar at a talk I went to. He said you should be able to state your thesis while standing on one leg. Which he proceeded to do. He then, of course, went into greater detail.

582. Ben Stein Vs. Sputtering Atheists

Comment #165163 by Frankus1122 on April 21, 2008 at 6:43 am

From Irate way long ago:

We are in a war between reason and wilfull ignorance.

You have to figure that reason will win out because that is how we run our lives on a day to day basis.
The reason and logic of good science progresses.
I was reading about the Large Haldron Collider at CERN and was thinking how far removed the science being done there is from the likes of this movie and the controversy surrounding it. The information that we are able to derive from such an experiment is truly astounding.
It is scarey to think that ignorance could have the power to thwart such progress.
Irate is right to be irate.

I read that 100 terabytes of information per second would come from a collision.
Bible quote that away ID numbskull.

583. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #164706 by Frankus1122 on April 20, 2008 at 3:03 pm

Methinks Kardy hasn't seen that Simpsons episode where Homer makes a time machine....

Methinks he has seen the episode when Homer eats hot pepper sauce so hot that induces peyote like effects.

584. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #164696 by Frankus1122 on April 20, 2008 at 2:25 pm

actually it was Reason, Truth and History... but that's a minor detail.

Yes. I guess my memory is not as good as I thought.
Or it could be the Dortmunder.

585. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #164695 by Frankus1122 on April 20, 2008 at 2:23 pm

As MPhil is saner and a clearer thinker than I am

"clearer thinker"

Unfortunately this turn of phrase has lost its appeal to me for some reason.

How horrid.

586. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #164692 by Frankus1122 on April 20, 2008 at 2:18 pm

well done! Did you remember that right away?

Yes.
Hilary Putnam
Reason, Truth and Logic

Don't know why I remember, but I do.

587. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #164690 by Frankus1122 on April 20, 2008 at 2:14 pm

Myth-index. He uses just about every entry in the catalogue. Bound to hit you somewhere.

Ya, sure.
And they do.

588. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #164687 by Frankus1122 on April 20, 2008 at 2:11 pm

Brain in a vat:
Reference is key.
To say "vat" you must refer to something in the real world for it to make sense and not just be a construction of words that make sense in relation to each other.
Reference is key.
In that you must 'refer' to something real for your words to have meaning beyond the grammatical construction of words.
To say or think or believe,
"I am a brain in a vat"
is meaningless in that the "vat" referred to in the mind of the brain in the vat is an unreal creation.

589. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #164674 by Frankus1122 on April 20, 2008 at 1:59 pm

Comment #164659 by Kardashovel

sorry Quine and Frankus, but you were ahead of the game

I'm not sure if I should be worried or not.
I am good at finding patterns in lines of thought. I am taking your initial beliefs to their logical conclusions. It is all making sense in here.
Sort of. But not really.
But the more internally consistent a story is the better.
That is why Tolkien's series of stories and writings are all so interesting. To me, at any rate.

590. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #164658 by Frankus1122 on April 20, 2008 at 1:49 pm

Comment #164645 by ThoughtsonCommonToad on April 20, 2008 at 1:38 pm
Frankus1122 Ah I see. Its the eugenicist argument I suppose,

I am saying we have, and have had, the capability for a while now.
I am not saying we would or should, but that we have had the ability to shape our evolutionary future to some degree, and to some degree we have already done this.
I am wondering if we can transfer some of our information to computers or Artificial Intelligence of some sort.
This is not without of the realm of possibility.
Idle speculation.
A diversion from reality.
For now.

591. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #164646 by Frankus1122 on April 20, 2008 at 1:38 pm

How can the atheistic Darwinian such as Professor Dawkins do, or approve of doing, anything that is "un-Darwinian". If our existence is a purposeless flux of matter, then anything we do, or approve of doing, is simply a manifestation of this purposeless flux. There is nothing else. There is no such thing as "un-Darwinian". In Dawkins' world view, the term lacks meaning.

You do it because you feel it is the right thing to do.

So you do it.

592. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #164635 by Frankus1122 on April 20, 2008 at 1:32 pm

Steve,

We see nothing but the process of Natural Selection. Natural Selection is not a process of design.

Unless Kardashovel's god says it is.
That is the brilliant thing about Karda's god: he uses Natural Selection as a way of designing!
That is why Karda is stressing the point that evolution by natural selection tends toward more complexity. It becomes so complex that that it becomes intelligent enough to become self-directed and then evolves itself into god.

I don't know.
It does make for some interesting science fiction though.
Isn't Quetz or someone into writing that sort of stuff?

593. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #164627 by Frankus1122 on April 20, 2008 at 1:25 pm

Comment #164624 by ThoughtsonCommonToad

Got you.
What I am talking about is, however uncomfortable, the ability of our species to, in some ways, be self directed in our evolution.
We have the intelligence to affect how the species develops.
Do we not do this when we eliminate something like smallpox?

I am saying it is an interesting area of investigation.
To me, at least.

594. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #164620 by Frankus1122 on April 20, 2008 at 1:12 pm

I think that point is answered by recent findings that we have been evolving over the past few millenia but no-one knew it was happening.

Okay, but aren't we really more aware of how evolution works now than we were millenia ago? Our understanding of how to breed things has only happened fairly recently in evolutionary terms, no?
We have only had the understanding of evolution as Darwin described since Darwin, of course.

We have come to the point where we can breed any sort of animal at all for particular traits we desire...

595. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #164611 by Frankus1122 on April 20, 2008 at 1:02 pm

Steve,

It seems to depend entirely on the environment.

Yes. What do you think of Kardashovels question about intelligence such as we have, becoming a factor in our own evolution, as it has in the evolution of dogs and sheep and the like?

596. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #164606 by Frankus1122 on April 20, 2008 at 12:56 pm

Can someone point me to a good resource concerning the effect of intelligence on evolution?

Oooh! Good one.
Certainly an area to explore and investigate. You may be onto something.
What will the effect of intelligence have on evolution?

597. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #164604 by Frankus1122 on April 20, 2008 at 12:53 pm

As for MPhil's statement that "evolution cannot in principle be completely teleological," I would agree. The point would be that God takes what He can use and ignores the rest. I am agnostic about whether God actually smites folks, or has guided evolution through the ages... but if He did, it would be after long periods of not paying attention. The whole point of using an evolutionary algorithm is to let time and randomness serve as your allies... not as your foe.

So Kardashovel, everything is as it is and that is God's plan?
Ke sera sera.

But what about Jesus? WTF's up wit dat bro?

598. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #164598 by Frankus1122 on April 20, 2008 at 12:45 pm

Comment #164595 by Diacanu

Yeah, whatever.

599. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #164594 by Frankus1122 on April 20, 2008 at 12:42 pm

Kardashovel,
You spoke of an afterlife.

I would love to be able to live forever! I mean if it was interesting and lots of good stuff but not if it was all like hell and well, hell-like.

Hell. What a horrible idea.
Sorry, everyone. It just struck me how awful the concept of hell is.
Wow!

Moving on:
I am sort of the opinion right now that I will die when I die.
I wish it wasn't that way but I am pretty convinced it is.
Why should I believe otherwise?
I mean EVERYTHING I have ever experienced about an afterlife is zero.
Anyone or everyone alive care to back me up on that one?

So Karda: Convince baby.

600. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #164592 by Frankus1122 on April 20, 2008 at 12:33 pm

Steve,
Someone like Kardashovel may have a really good science fiction story that he believes is real.
So what?
He is not hurting anyone and tit seems to be good for him.
(The last sentence has an un/intentional spelling error in it. I was going to correct it but then I thought it was funny, so I left it in).

He knows if he wants to convince others of the truth of what he believes he needs evidence. And he knows the kind of evidence he needs here.