651. The Greatest Act of Human Hubris

Comment #40668 by Veronique on May 14, 2007 at 4:46 pm

4. Comment #40522 by briancoughlanworldcitizen

Nifty comment Brian!! I have only just read your comment Logicel, you got in first! Well done:-) I saw your posts on the Muslim women's hymen purchase thread too. Excellent!

This is one yummy article. I agree with you bruno. I too have to find a way to wordsmith it down. It's a very full article though. I'll save it and try to get the salient points into a couple of paragraphs.

It's a great morning
V

652. Why Christopher Hitchens is not Great

Comment #40634 by Veronique on May 14, 2007 at 3:53 pm

Evangelicals make the argument that the sexual behavior leads to the sexual disease and that in educating people on the realities of the actual actions - lives can be saved. If education is the key, teaching someone that using a condom "may" protect them from a deadly disease is far less helpful than teaching them that a certain action will "always" protect them from it.

Excuse me Mr McCullough. What planet do you come from? Abstinence? That's the answer?

We are, all 6.6 billion of us, here to tell you, as a methodology, it doesn't work.

You have the corner pub, TV, radio, theatres and cinemas, libraries, opera and ballet to entertain you.

The people who are dying from AIDS, because people like you, the Pope, all mealy-mouthed religions and Bush et al are (and are in favour of) withholding a reproductive health measure, have no entertainment whatsoever.

All they have is the comfort of each other.

You arrogant little p***k. You stunningly smug a******e. And you have the temerity to try (and fail) to take Hitchens apart? So you hump happily with your condom &/or vasectomy and deny safe sex to others? Well, that feels better! (smiles..)

I looked at the original article and the comment thread. McCullough was writing for the conservative choir. He got quite a drubbing on the thread though.

Most of you guys have said everything that I would want to say.

Cheers
V

653. Cardinal: homosexuality a form of prostitution

Comment #40271 by Veronique on May 14, 2007 at 4:13 am

BaronOchs

So glad you found the Trojan Horse. Wonderful stuff. Aren't they fearless?

Another one you may like (very sad really) is Why people think Americans are Stupid. I know it's on youtube. It's a segment where Chas went to the USA and interviewed people on the street with fairly basic questions. The answers were pretty sobering (and frightening). He also passed himself off as our PM John Howard and the US people insisted they had their photograph taken with 'Australia's PM'. LOL. Great fun and a beautiful send-up (also a sad commentary).

The best thing is that they are funded by our public broadcaster, ie. our taxes. That's pretty good! They are currently being wooed by a commercial broadcaster: I hope they won't be seduced, because there is always 'commercially acceptable' rider but you can never tell.

Cheers
V

654. French Muslim women opt for hymen surgical cons

Comment #40026 by Veronique on May 12, 2007 at 6:10 pm

27. Comment #39837 by Richard Morgan

Hehehehe...

I think that for every ingenious method of the male to prevent 'his' female from being impregnated by other males, there must be very many males without partners who are just as ingenious at thwarting him.

I have seen several wildlife shows where the younger males band together (they have been turfed already from the group in which they were brought up). Some of the males create a ruckus that grabs the attention of the dominant male and the other ones sneak into the fold, do the business and race off again. Some of the primates resort to this as do the elephant seals. There must be heaps more.

Cunning eh? Just gotta get your genes out there somehow:-)

Ain't life grand.
V

655. Cardinal: homosexuality a form of prostitution

Comment #40023 by Veronique on May 12, 2007 at 5:40 pm

BaronOchs

Just seen the rest of the posts on this page. I am soooooo glad you like our Chaser!!

They take on the best with utter fearlessness. See if you can find a segment where they hauled an enormous Trojan Horse around Sydney and got it into most places (except the Turkish Embassy!:-)).

They do absolutely wonderful stuff. I usually have to have easy reach to tissues when their show comes onto the ABC here.

Actually you can find a lot of their skits on
www.abc.net.au/chaser

Cheers
V

656. Cardinal: homosexuality a form of prostitution

Comment #40022 by Veronique on May 12, 2007 at 5:33 pm

50. Comment #39909 by BaronOchs

Here endeth the first lesson!!

Thank you very much for taking the time to give me some understanding of the history. As always, such things obviously have to do with:

1. Perceived purity. Well! Enough said:-)
2. Property rights. I didn't realise that the clergy lived on church property and could 'will' it to their son(s) as the next set of clergy.

The disenfranchised wives, I would think, did enter nunneries. They were, after all, seen as safe havens and a number of historical queens and wives of disgraced & overthrown nobility sought refuge in them.

I guess church history is exactly the same as secular history with its emphasis on preferment, manipulation of existing situations, nepotism and toadying.

Can you direct me to a 'cover-all' type of book to start with?

Thank you (and thanks for the V moniker, most people call me that):-)
V

657. French Muslim women opt for hymen surgical cons

Comment #39802 by Veronique on May 12, 2007 at 1:21 am

20. Comment #39791 by Big T

Sorry. Please don't take my comments personally. It may well have been my choice of transient partners!! and based on my idea of sexual attractiveness:-) Please don't take my comments out of context. Certainly please do not apply them to yourself. I was making my own and valid observations based on my own sexually active life. Nothing to do with you. Stop sounding so bitter.

I have no idea who you are, so how could I possibly be talking about you:-) Don't you think you are being a little over sensitive? How many of your partners do you remember? Can you recall all their names? Or have you been monogamous all your life? That's easier but I know few people like that. You may be the first:-)

22. Comment #39797 by Richard Morgan

Not sure from where this stuff emanates. Maybe less to do with monotheism and more to do with Cosmo and the marketing elite in the first world. It does seem to smack of women trying to remain sexually attractive and competitive. That's pretty sad and indicates a lack of sense of self and confidence in innate qualities. But then, I see lots of 35 to 45 year old women who have yet to come to terms with getting older and appear to have little in the way of internal mental resources. It may well be a result of subscribing to an external view of themselves in mirrors and not developing any particular substance in their lives. And that is what Cosmo is all about - skin deep Paris Hilton type mentalities. I know men like this as well. A shallowness has risen. Very sad.

I am now very lucky, I am invisible, I am 63: no one notices me any more when I walk down the street. I feel so light, I waft along un-noticed. Such freedom, I can't even express it to you.

Bonzai

I think you may well be spot on. I can't subject it either to good critical analysis but you resonate with me. Don't forget the coutesans who commanded a lot of dosh or other benefits. Not just low paid temps. I could add more (I did, but lost the post). I may try again later.

That's me for tonight
V

658. Cardinal: homosexuality a form of prostitution

Comment #39798 by Veronique on May 12, 2007 at 12:50 am

47. Comment #39700 by BaronOchs

Was it that early? I didn't realise. How did married priests remain until C19th if they were banned? I think you have a lot to teach me.

I have to confess that I know very sketchy bits about any religion and what I think I know may well have been only imbibed without thinking on my part.

I welcome education on this front.

Cheers
V

659. God . . . in other words

Comment #39792 by Veronique on May 12, 2007 at 12:15 am

33. Comment #39565 by Russell Blackford

No, no. There is no criticism from me Russell. I wish I could limerick as well as you. I love them. And yes, I do know that you can do long rants. And I usually enjoy them anyway. But I do like your light and pertinent touch via the convention of limericks:-)

I meant what I said - you have a facility, don't stop. I certainly did not mean facile!!:-) I had never heard of Ms Gledhill before, but that's got to do with my living in the Antipodes and having only come to this forum towards the end of last year. Prior to that, bum up, head down, work 'til you drop. No time for anything else. Now I'm sort of retired and having a great time learning things I had neglected in the pursuit of the almighty dollar so my kids would have something (they seem unable to achieve the massive amount necessary to have what I have accumulated and I need to pass that on to them prior to my will being read after I kark it).

I have been a very snug bunny in a very snug rug for most of my adult life. I guess that I have maintained a certain smug arrogance in that I have always seen religion as a bunny rug and have distanced myself from believers all my life. TGD made me sit up and think it was probably time to become vocal (in light of what appears to sweeping into my hitherto comfortable world).

Cheers (with smile and a bit of a giggle and an appreciation)
V

660. French Muslim women opt for hymen surgical cons

Comment #39769 by Veronique on May 11, 2007 at 10:16 pm

Has it occurred to anyone that the desire for virgin women that has been embedded in monotheistic religions (and we know that monotheism constrains and marginalises women) may have something to do with male performance issues?

Like 'if she doesn't know what to expect, then she won't be able to judge me against previous sexual partners, because I am not sure that I am up to this. I can't hold on, I just blow'. This would be especially true in Islam where both sexes are supposed to be virgins prior to marriage. And masturbation is prohibited (yeah - sure!). If these women are to be married, I can actually understand why they would want to appear as virgins to their prospective husbands. This is cultural stuff as well apart from the religious overtones that could get them stoned to death as impure and damaged goods.

Out of all the blokes I had anything to do with, I could count on the fingers of one hand the ones that were actually worth the effort.

I am old now and sex plays no part in my life, but I was promiscuous (for many reasons as I am sure you will attribute) and I fondly remember very, very few of my partners.

I do recall my Japanese step-mother however. My father was absolutely delighted with her sexual openness and ingenuity (he married her when he was 64 years old and she was a 48 year old divorcee). They had known each other for, at least, 20 odd years since he went on sabbatical to Japan. I know she enlivened their sex life because he told me so. Japanese women are far more culturally skilled in the 'arts of love' than other cultures. A lovely lady, I am so sad they are both now dead.

Just a thought
V

661. Supporters of abortion have no future in Church, Pope tells faithful

Comment #39764 by Veronique on May 11, 2007 at 9:59 pm

Here's a quote for you all from a recovered British christian.

'Both in the Navy and as a Christian, it was as though some part of my critical apparatus was disabled - I could not 'see' how ridiculous my beliefs were. I just laugh out loud when I read simple facts like the proportion of pregnancies ending in miscarriage cast light on God as being the greatest abortionist of all time... how could I not 'see' such glaring inconsistencies before.....'

Talk about LOL. I love it. I had never thought of it that way but it's a terrific shot at religites like this silly man who thinks that an election by the cardinals to put him on the papal throne bequeaths a direct line to Peter the Rock (the thick-as-two bricks bloke) that Jesus fingered as not really being able to run the church.

Gorgeous stuff
V

662. Does God Exist? The Nightline Face-Off

Comment #39760 by Veronique on May 11, 2007 at 9:37 pm

Why is it that a number of 'christians' like Kirk Cameron and Alistair McGrath and others just have to say I used to be an atheist...?

Did they have a critical thinking bypass or something?

I saw a foreshortened version of this so-called debate. I was gobsmacked. This guy Comfort (what a name for a religious apologist!) pulls out a poor print of the Mona Lisa to try and use a 'scientific method' argument to prove god exists. Give me a break!!!

Sapient and Kelly were well able and performed beautifully. Even though Sapient sort of made an apology at the end for being hard on Cameron and Comfort, he didn't need to. Cameron and Comfort were absolutely discombobulated and the expression on their faces was a treat. Ultimately they made no sense whatsoever. And why would they. Empty vessels and all that.

Oh Mind Rebel, how I hope you are right. May be a few generations and a lot of angst yet though. Did you read Abid Ullah Jan's article yet about democracy in the middle east? I am pretty sure I sent you the link on another thread. It's so hard to keep track of the threads we all post too. I probably need a hand written list so follow them all!!

Good on RRS
V

663. Atheist offers to send letters post-Rapture

Comment #39701 by Veronique on May 11, 2007 at 4:21 pm

I pissed myself laughing at the article (brilliant) and all your posts. I love the ideas that the article has spawned.

My sides ache!! I have to send this off to my brother, he'll love it.

We should set up affiliate agencies for every conceivable post-Rapture service that will be needed all throughout the world. What a bloody hoot! I'll do the pet minding service here in Australia. At least there should be some spare room to house them all.

Love you guys
V

664. Cardinal: homosexuality a form of prostitution

Comment #39699 by Veronique on May 11, 2007 at 4:00 pm

Listen you guys. If you want to talk language, etymology and spelling here are some books that I delight in:

Mother Tongue and Bryson's Dictionary of Troublesome Words by Bill Bryson

The Surgeon of Crowthorne by Simon Winchester

The Adventure of English by Melvyn Bragg

Native Tongues by Charles Berlitz

There's a great fun book on texting, grammar and her pet hates (apostrophes) etc by Lynn Truss called Eats Shoots and Leaves

Try to find a SOD - the etymology is always included. Any titles you can give me would be appreciated:-)

Back on topic:
Riga looks (from the photograph) like such a quaint little place. It's awful to think of the roiling divisiness being whipped up by the Cardinal (I also think he's a repressed homosexual) and his hench men, the neo-Nazis. When you think about it, it's not that different from that loopy born-again and his 14 or so children and hundreds of grandchildren, picketing the funerals of the forces' personnel in wherever in America.

Catholic priests used to be able to marry and lead ordinary sexual lives for a long time. I can't remember who put the kybosh on that one or when but it's not that long ago, as time goes.

The Catholics have so much to answer for. They are heaps worse than the evangelicals and charismatics, mainly because they have been around for so long, have amassed so much wealth and power and have peddled fear and 'sin' to so many poor, deluded people for so many generations that their particular set of memes are self perpetuating. It makes me sick.

I recall the first Gay and Lesbian Madri Gras in Sydney. The airwaves were full of it. There were the pickets, the supporters and the ho hums. Now, I believe, it's the biggest and most flamboyant in the world. They showcase all different groups as well - the police are represented, the arts, nurses, doctors, lawyers, the whole gamut as far as I know. It brings in thousands of people all over the world and Sydney has a ball (to coin a phrase).

If only it were the same everywhere....

Cheers
V

665. God . . . in other words

Comment #39512 by Veronique on May 11, 2007 at 3:32 am

Ms Gledhill,

I am sorry, I cannot subscribe to your original post at timesonline. I fear that you are an online grabber and I cannot subscribe to someone who wants her name in lights for the taking on of Dawkins in an interview (he is popular, after all - bound to get your name up there). Your interpretation of his responses seems built to your ideology. Don't try to make your name from an interview with him couched in your words. My cynicism tends to come to the fore.

Dawkins doesn't have your neediness for publication. You pursue him, not the other way around. You are out of my arena. Enjoy your life. But don't foist your ideology on us.

Clever, but not clever by half, Madam.

Cheers
V

666. God . . . in other words

Comment #39489 by Veronique on May 10, 2007 at 10:27 pm

Russell,

What's with the limericks? Have you found a new, succinct methodology rather than having to go into length?

You are right, it's easy to get to the heart of something with a limerick and you seem to have a particular facility!!

I like them, don't stop. It's not the levity (well, it is really) it's the punch.

Good stuff
V

667. World's most prominent atheist takes on the Biblical God (and other topics)

Comment #39458 by Veronique on May 10, 2007 at 5:53 pm

Like CJ, I wasted precious minutes watching this. I didn't get to the singing and crying, thank god.

It's interesting that this kind of pap is shown so late at night or very early in the morning. Maybe the broadcasters actually know that people, by and large, just aren't interested. Maybe they just want the dosh for a show, any show.

Sorry, you guys, I don't find it funny, just very sad and pathetic. Corylus - loved the Oscar Wilde quote and I don't care if it is an urban myth either. I can just see him saying it!!

wipes brow and settles down to Hitchens, once again. Ahhh - a bit of sanity in an insane world.

Cheers
V

668. Better God-fearing than sneering

Comment #38682 by Veronique on May 8, 2007 at 11:48 pm

10. Comment #38671 by MelM

No blood transfusions
No early intervention
No dancing
No singing (unless hymns)
No computers,TV or mobile phones

OK, a bit over the top, but these things are true in the more odd sects.

But I have to take issue with Zeus. I have always loved the Greek Pantheon. All the gods cheated on each other, were partisan, helped their human favourites, were subject to flattery, jealous, angry, killed babies when they were a threat. They even interacted so well with humans that they disguised themselves as fauns etc and impregnated human women who gave birth to semi and demi gods (a bit like quavers). I mean, how human do you want your gods? I most certainly do. It's the only way to invent them, have them answer your prayers and supplications and get on with life. A little interpretation was needed, but there were priests and priestesses and oracles and temples. You could have all the trappings. Great stuff. Risible? Not on your nelly.
end of childish joy

I will say that Ms Merritt is right, I have no idea what it is like to be a christian. I know that the born-agains are convinced that by being 'saved' in Jesus Christ brings the cherry picked NT into play and turfs the OT god.

It was a clever move and probably came about because of the charges that have been made against the god of the OT as a cruel, vain, misogynistic, murderous tyrant etc etc. I wish I could repeat that wonderful descriptive list that RD made - the words just tripped off his tongue with such facility.

My non-understanding of what it is like to be a christian has absolutely nothing to do with monumentally absurd claims made by christians for their imaginary god. And I am tired of the 'consolation' factor. Find another bottle of whiskey, Logicel, that'll do. Some good music and a good book (as distinct from the good book?).

And what exactly is 'revealed' by the good book? I can open a can and its contents are revealed for all to see. I can chip away at a run of quartz and reveal the opals inside. I can take off my clothes and reveal my body in all its nakedness. How does the ability to reveal god's intentions equate with the revealing of realities? I don't need faith to see the opals, why should I adopt faith to perceive some meaning in words written by fallible humans about their wish lists. On that score, MYOB has never answered my wish lists for sensible upgrades to their program. Maybe I should stop sending them my prayers as well. Their user instruction book is as incomprehensible as the wholly babble anyway. But I muddle through. Oh dear, is that MYOB sneering?

Grayling's small book of essays arrived today. I have just started Hitchens and I KNOW I am going to enjoy it. His style will suit me very well.

Cheers
V

669. My response to the GOP evolution question

Comment #38382 by Veronique on May 7, 2007 at 11:46 pm

You most certainly are. I love it. How did you do that? How did you type words on there and get the picture to change?

No wonder I need some help from you!!

Well done
V

670. My response to the GOP evolution question

Comment #38335 by Veronique on May 7, 2007 at 4:34 pm

Brian

Have just worked out how to subscribe to themodestagnostic. Thanks.

Cheers
V

671. My response to the GOP evolution question

Comment #38333 by Veronique on May 7, 2007 at 4:25 pm

briancoughlanworldcitizen

On the menu bar at the top of the page, click on forum
In the forum page click on profile

In your profile page, scroll to Preferences

Turn on the button that gives a preference to be notified of any message that is posted to a forum topic you are interested in and have posted to. That's the 3rd preference (I think). The 4th preference is to be notified whenever someone (like me) sends you a private message. Turn on the button for that preference to get messages from others.

The notifications are sent to your email address with a link to the message. You have an inbox, outbox, sentbox and save &/or delete option in your messaging section on this site. When you click the preference button for PMs, you will receive an email telling you that you have mail. My messages to you will leave my outbox and be transferred to your inbox.

Then you can send me a message if you like. I'll be notified by email and get to your message. It took me a while to understand that my messages stay in my outbox unless you have that preference button turned on. It's only then that the transfer to your inbox can take place.

Good luck
V

672. My response to the GOP evolution question

Comment #38021 by Veronique on May 6, 2007 at 5:28 pm

22. Comment #37849 by briancoughlanworldcitizen

What on earth is themodestagnostic?

You will need to go to your RD profile and tick the box that will alert you, via email, whenever you have a PM from anyone on this site. That should do it.

Cheers
V

673. Atheists go on the political offensive in God-fearing US

Comment #38015 by Veronique on May 6, 2007 at 4:59 pm

3. Comment #37982 by Bizarro Dawkins

You get quite a drubbing on these threads, don't you? What makes you keep coming back? Is there a 'lollies from God' component? You know, like the JWs, who call unannounced and unwanted and are sent off with fleas in their ears, feel that because they have tried so hard to bring the Watchtower, as their calling card, to people who turf them off the front step, their god will reward them for their constant evangelism in the face of constant rejection.

Or are you just a contrary bastard who likes getting up everyone's nose?

Or, of course, you could be just a sad masochist.

The hyper-vitriol and hatred that you ascribe to RD, has lost you any claim to "intellectual", at least, on these threads, if not in moderate society. Religion does not engage the intellect. It plays on the fear of an avenging deity who demands obedience and awe.

Please understand that my comments and seeming questions are rhetorical only. They do not require your response.

I certainly have no desire to attempt to engage you in any real or thoughtful discussion so I'll leave you with a couple of quotes from Thomas Paine:

Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.

Of all the tyrannies that affect mankind, tyranny in religion is the worst.

V

674. God Exists. A Formula Proves it.

Comment #37839 by Veronique on May 6, 2007 at 12:55 am

40. Comment #37744 by Michael P

Interestingly, you can't access the discussion page on the good professor's tulane biog. page. Probably a good move after putting forward this tosh.

Anyone got an idea how to contact him with a bit of vituperative bile? Or other equally engaging comments?

This sort of stuff really riles me. To all you people who live in the same place as the TV station, bombard it with your comments. It won't do much good, but it will help to reduce the angst.

Cheers
V

675. My response to the GOP evolution question

Comment #37837 by Veronique on May 6, 2007 at 12:42 am

Thanks Brian

Just looked at the youtube site. Great collation. Did you turn on messaging notification on this site? Need some info in the nest few weeks.

Regards
V

676. My response to the GOP evolution question

Comment #37821 by Veronique on May 5, 2007 at 10:00 pm

Brian,

Good to see you back. I have posted PMs to you that still sit in my outbox. Turn on your messaging notification, pleeeeeeeeeease.

I got worried when you pulled some of your youtube vids (it said account closed) and you hadn't posted for six days on the Virginia Tech vid that you did. I even left a message on your blog.

So glad you're back! Good vid. I agree with Ohnhai that part of it is hard to read. And maybe too much text. I don't know. Loved the music though.

Cheers
V

677. God Exists. A Formula Proves it.

Comment #37816 by Veronique on May 5, 2007 at 8:51 pm

Methinks that Tipler may tipple a little too much at times.

I don't even know why I'm bothering to say anything at all to this 'news-story'. It's all twaddle.

I have never taught children to write but a primary school teacher I know says that children who start lettering from the bottom up are often dyslexic. Not always, mind you, maybe it can also indicate a facility to compartmentalise very successfully.

Thank you Beth for the Stenger link.

Cheers
V

678. Bonobos and chimps 'speak' with gestures

Comment #37562 by Veronique on May 5, 2007 at 12:27 am

7. Comment #37319 by pauliej

I cannot thank you enough for your link. I was moved, my mouth dropped, I was in tears, delighted and humbled all at the same time. What a beautiful video Susan presented. How on earth can humans remain so arrogant!

I will just be effusive, so I'll stop. Thank you a million times for that.

Cheers
V

679. Author of the Year Ad

Comment #37490 by Veronique on May 4, 2007 at 3:51 pm

Onward and ever upward Richard!

All this stuff just raises your profile. I am pleased for you and the next book swimming around in your head is eagerly awaited by all of us here and, hopefully, many others as well.

Your contribution to the raising of consciousness, as was your stated purpose, has been phenomenal.

So, I guess this is a way of saying congratulations.

Cheers
V

680. Science and Religion in Islam

Comment #37262 by Veronique on May 3, 2007 at 11:15 pm

This is quite a depressing interview insofar as Edis says with certainty that the Islamic world is unlikely to embrace secularism. In fact he says it is moving much more to embrace Islam in government make-up and society. The May Day rally in Turkey appears to be more a dying gasp than a growth in secularism according to Edis.

That creationism and YEC are taking more of a stronghold than evolution does not mean peace with the western world. No wonder they want the US and allies out of Iraq.

I have just ordered a book by Abid Ullah Jan called The Ultimate Tragedy, Colonialists Rushing to Global War to save the Crumbling Empire. What we call democracy is not what is needed in the Middle East. They have seen the despotism of the colonial grab in their countries over centuries and don't want western secular societial structures in place in their countries.

They have not been dealt with well by colonialists in the past and have no reason to think differently now.

Cheers
V

681. How multiculturalism is betraying women

Comment #36961 by Veronique on May 3, 2007 at 12:14 am

33. Comment #36952 by fatcitymax

If she had killed her husband, what makes you think that the male Muslim community in which she was probably sequestered with her family would not have killed her? Remember honour killing! Heavy little number.

I am 5'2" and slightly built. Let's say I am 'sold' to a man in wedlock and he beats me. Have I actually got the presence of mind to overcome well indoctrinated cultural and social mores and attempt to kill him (let's say he's 5'10", weighs about 95kgs to my 50kgs and is angry with me - more strength comes with anger - great surges of hormones and chemicals). Have I got a hope? I don't think so. And if I were to bide my time, make sure the kids were safe and kill him while he is sleeping, what reason would I be able to offer to a court of law and/or a Sharia court?

26. Comment #36924 by Yorker

Do you recall instances where children died because the kids were ill and needed blood transfusions and their JW parents wouldn't allow it? These instances flew in the face of the doctors' adherence to the Hippocratic oath but they couldn't override the parents' jurisdiction over their kids.

24. Comment #36915 by Helios G2V

Christ almighty. I hear things but you have said it. And I don't live where you do so you see much more than I could possibly see. I do know that Aboriginal law in Oz tends, in the wilds, to overrule Federal and State laws. It sickens me. But they were here first (so maybe it's a very different problem), the Islamics weren't first in Germany.

Got to go

Talk soon
V

682. Huge rally for Turkish secularism

Comment #36006 by Veronique on April 29, 2007 at 9:03 pm

2. Comment #35948 by MIND_REBEL

You will probably appreciate the excerpts from a book callled The Ultimate Tragedy by Abid Ullah Jan. I came across an article he wrote and responded to him. He then sent me the site:

http://www.icssa.org/article_detail_parse.php?a_id=824&rel=

I guarantee you will like reading what he has to say about democracy and the middle east. There is also a lot of history of empire in this particular book as it relates to the middle east over the past 700 odd years.

I have only just started to look at the site, so I can't tell you much except that I know you'll like it.

Enjoy
V

683. Scene Caused by Christian Group at NYC Stage Show

Comment #36001 by Veronique on April 29, 2007 at 8:33 pm

I think the whole thing was premeditated.

The content of the show was known beforehand the tickets were bought with that knowledge, the students may or may not have been in on it, 'David' went to that theatre knowing full well what he was going to do. It was a deliberate act of terrorism, if you like, put in place knowingly and well beforehand.

So it does make it an act of terrorism.

Daisey acquitted himself well, he recovered, kept his audience and was able to continue his show. Well done to him. And well done for tracking David down and trying to talk to him.

Daisey's comments show the effect the incident had on him when staging his next show. I take my hat off to him for refusing to be victimised.

Cheers
V

684. We aim to misbehave

Comment #35792 by Veronique on April 28, 2007 at 10:00 pm

50. Comment #35636 by Mikado

Thank you so much for the information. What is your personal feeling of the outcome of the state church debate? I am so glad that the majority of Norwegians are not religious except maybe in lip-service to the state. How about the King? To change the status of the church he would have to, at least, endorse such change.

In the UK, the Queen is the titular head of the CoE, but I don't know about any percentage requirement for elected parliamentarians. I am pretty sure there isn't any. I am sure that she could be the only member of the state church of CoE and that no one else is required to. Is that right, you Brits?

In Australia, we endorse her as our Queen. We are, after all, an Act of the British Parliament, even though, to all intents and purposes, we are are self governing - we dumped Britain's Privy Court as our highest court of appeal and now have our own High Court.

Such things, as you point out, are often hang-overs from a previous time, but, like you, I would want to get rid of this archaic nonsense.

Thank you again.

Cheers
V

685. We aim to misbehave

Comment #35622 by Veronique on April 28, 2007 at 12:42 am

46. Comment #35614 by Russell Blackford

What a delightful comment. You are quite right. We all get so serious (and I have seen you do the same). There are times when frivolity saves the day and misbehaviour shoves its irreverant head above the murk!

And now I have just seen Mikado's comment. I had no idea that Norway was constrained in a legislative way to form government in the way that you have said. That is appalling. What is Norway's state-church? I didn't know that either.

Please be rude and tell us more. I am sure that not many people posting here know what you are trying carefully to say. I am interested because I have been living under the misapprehension that you were more safe from religious-government input.

I now know you aren't but know nothing about this. I am not an American, I am Australian.

V

686. Study: Religion is Good for Kids

Comment #35598 by Veronique on April 27, 2007 at 7:22 pm

72. Comment #35349 by shmooth

Thanks for the link to the Milgram experiments. A fascinating and disturbing set of studies with heaps of implications.

I'll get back to you.

Cheers
V

687. Shout your doubt out loud, my fellow unbelievers

Comment #35359 by Veronique on April 27, 2007 at 2:00 am

Bye, bye Weefree. See you round like a worm having grown from carcass munching.

Can't be bothered. Maybe I am too old (yawn) to try to understand your oddly worded posts from a stance with which I have no commerce.

You are gone, honey, just go. I think most people on these posts waste far too much time trying to inject the science of understanding and the reason of intellect into the quickly withering muscles of your arms, wrists, legs and ankles.

Good luck to you, you are very resistant to reason. Absolutely fitting in a die hard religite. Lollies from god will be forthcoming, I guarantee it.

Sleep well
V

688. Kennedy lectures on challenges facing K-12 science education

Comment #35353 by Veronique on April 27, 2007 at 1:13 am

6. Comment #35308 by SwordOfDiplomacy

Please do economics and make a change. Here is a letter I wrote this week to our newspaper:

Facts and figures regarding the un-sustainability of our present mode of living are mind-boggling. Peak oil, water diminution, topsoil erosion, ocean acidification, fish-stock collapse, habitat destruction, species' extinction: the list is enormous and keeps growing.

This overburdening of the environment means economic growth can't continue for long: maintaining current living standards long-term, let alone universalising affluence, is impossible.

Traditional economics ignores economy's relation to environment and assumes that environment is a subset of economy. This is a problem for Howard and Costello's mind-set of dry economics.

The economy is actually a subset of the ecosystem, which is both 'source' of the economy's resources and 'sink' for its wastes. Energy and matter enter the economy as inputs, are transformed into goods and services, and leave as wastes. It's a finite, closed system. Not hard to comprehend.

The longer we pursue affluence and population growth, the more we deplete resources and overload environment with wastes. Sources and sinks available for the future diminish accordingly, so the sustainable future living standard and population must drop too. The longer we keep overshooting carrying capacity, the more we lower it and mortgage the future.

The more we grow now, the more we must shrink later to arrive at a sustainable economy and population. If we don't address this now, it makes it ever more difficult later; a hideous predicament. This may not be a pleasant message, but it is real.(With thanks to Herman Daly)

Think sensible money. Think sensible economics. Learn heaps and quizz your lecturers, make them address your concerns. Howard and Costello and there's another one called Turnbull are Australian Liberal Federal Parliament dry economists and set the agenda. Hopefully they will be wiped out in November. We can no longer afford such manifest blindness.

Cheers
V

689. Study: Religion is Good for Kids

Comment #35241 by Veronique on April 26, 2007 at 5:02 pm

58. Comment #35056 by coolwainy

You seem to have made somewhat uncritical comments regarding both the study and the comments of other posters here.

I suggest you take up IanErikSmith's advice and check out either the full study (I'm reposting his link for you):

http://moses.creighton.edu/JRS/2005/2005-11.html

or the article describing the results in the LATimes that Erik lists in his second post:

http://www.commondreams.org/views05/1001-06.htm

The author of the LATimes article has this to say in his closing remarks:

My prediction is that right-wing evangelicals will do their best to discredit Paul's substantive findings. But when they fail, they'll just shrug: So what if highly religious societies have more murders and disease than less religious societies? Remember the trials of Job? God likes to test the faithful.

To the truly nonrational, even evidence that on its face undermines your beliefs can be twisted to support them. Absolutism means never having to say you're sorry.

And that, of course, is what makes it so very dangerous.

Cheers
V

690. We aim to misbehave

Comment #35104 by Veronique on April 26, 2007 at 8:08 am

Go PZ!!

What a beautiful call to arms. And on this site on the back of Hitchens' article and Parris'. Go guys! Who said atheists are passionless wimps! Everyone is coming out of the woodwork! And I applaud everyone of them and back them to the hilt!

In this increasingly divided world of faith and rationalism, 'tis no place for the faint-hearted. This time, chaining oneself to the fence of Buckingham Palace will not be enough.

Those women fought for universal sufferage rights and do I thank them? Of course I do. New Zealand was the first country to grant female voting rights. I think it was New South Wales that was next (I know it was an Australian state).

This 'fight' is just beginning. And it won't be easy.

11. Comment #35079 by Fanusi Khiyal
You are experiencing oppression. Do you think that if theocracy succeeds in taking over the political agenda of otherwise non-theocratic countries that there won't be oppression for those who oppose theocracy? Of course there will.

There is no self-congratulation here. No one has time for that. Do you really think that people do not care about the oppression of women under Islam? Of course they do. But this time it is not so much about women as about freedom from religion and the freedom for women under Islam will only happen as a result of freedom from the unreason that is religion. Islamic women are starting to speak. They need support from a much wider base. And that base is a call to overthrow theocracy wherever it is found.

All 'movements' start with passion and, often, with awful consequences. Once the gains are made, vigilance still needs to monitor any backsliding.

Sure, there is a lot of irrelevance and minor carping. That doesn't brush the movement under the carpet once it has achieved its aims.

You say: We are not oppressed. We are in no way at the recieving end of genuine persecution. And pretending that we are, hurts us in many ways.Do you want us to wait until we are genuinely oppressed? And then fight for freedom in a world where we could be killed, stoned to death, shot by firing squad, imprisoned in chains: a new Inquisition?

We see the potential for genuine oppression and must forestall it. It's the potential that we have to combat. There is no self-congratulation, certainly not on my part or on the part of anyone here (forgive my inclusive phrase everyone). But my fear of the real and present threat of theocracy is strong enough to make me vociferous, mouthy and I cannot afford the luxury of keeping quiet, being pleasant and accepting of what I see as an insidious and real threat to my and everyone else's intellectual freedom.

I don't want to live under the yoke of a christian theocracy and I abhore the Islamic theocracy that binds so much of the middle east. A descent into a dark age for modern countries is an ever growing threat.

Phew! Time for bed

Cheers
V

691. The God disunion: there is a place for faith in science, insists Winston

Comment #34695 by Veronique on April 25, 2007 at 12:21 am

Thanks robives for clearing that up.

Cheers
V

692. The God disunion: there is a place for faith in science, insists Winston

Comment #34693 by Veronique on April 25, 2007 at 12:15 am

1. Comment #34688 by GodlessHeathen

It could well be Glenn. The same cut-off is in the original Guardian article. Don't really know: she's a bio-ethicist, she may well have been part of the 'religious divide', but I wouldn't know where she sits.

As far as I am aware, anyyone who stands up out of the mire has to cop any comment sweet. That's just the way it is, at least while we live in a 'free' world or cyberspace:-)

Robert Winston adds nothing new to anything. His slot called The Story of God is being programmed on our ABC Compass programme and is pretty useless as a reference point.

I love his photo - hand under elbow, sage and winning smile at the camera with just a hint of 'authority'. Sorry mate, go jump. You add nothing of value.

Cheers
V

693. Shout your doubt out loud, my fellow unbelievers

Comment #34690 by Veronique on April 24, 2007 at 11:57 pm

22. Comment #34681 by Roy_H

And bloody well said by his highness, I must say.

On other posts here, I have said that I consider missionaries as an infestation that abounded, certainly throughout the Portugese, Spanish and British empire building days. And well before and well beyond. They are still at it!!

The Moslems also sent, not so much missionaries but, more strident parties to cower and convert peoples to their religion.

It sickens me to the teeth that religites think they are the only ones to hold 'truth' and have to proselytise to appease and propipiate their own particular god with no consideration for the subdued population's age-old culture and religious beliefs.

I hold that religion is an evil that knows no bounds and that any nefarious means that produces a result is deemed allowable by missionaries. That said, all the medical and scientific advances that have been made have, by and large, been withheld from the subjugated populations and the magic imposed by said missionaries has been no different from the magic previously practised by those populations. Have a look at Deadly Feasts. The research started in the '50s and the (very odd) doctor who uncovered what was happening laid no religious foundation to the reasoned arguments he gave to the Fore to stop their practice of cannibalism. And stop it he did. Kuru has not proliferated since then. That is how it should be.

That was a bit of a rant. Sorry.

Cheers
V

694. Here Comes the Fourth Musketeer.

Comment #34684 by Veronique on April 24, 2007 at 10:40 pm

Wow, you guys

Talk about missives, you boggle me.

Here's my little contribution.

Anyone I know at any one time can hold different views from mine on some things and similar views as mine on other things. So far, so normal.

My prejudices are what propel me to discard one person over another. Doesn't matter what my rant is or may be. Rational argumentation to discard someone's views and therefore not even entertain any other of his/her views discounts my non-rational discarding of that person.

I haven't been able to read all these posts, they go on and on like drains. They seem to get nowhere fast.

V

695. Shout your doubt out loud, my fellow unbelievers

Comment #34680 by Veronique on April 24, 2007 at 10:15 pm

16. Comment #34660 by nerdfiles

Where was it that I read that, by and large, polytheism, a more laid back culture and little female disenfranchisement tended to flourish in tropical rainforest environments? Clothing seemed to be not so prohibitive and laughter abounded. The religions were more fluid and less hidebound. (Very sketchy!)

The monotheistic religions, with harsher religious and cultural imperatives and greater female disenfranchisement grew up in arid (and obviously harsher) areas. Clothing was proscriptive, female sexuality was blamed for male inability to control lust and the religions themselves reflected the harsh conditions.

I don't really think this is any more than a cusory view and I can't recall where I came across it as a thesis.
This then becomes off-topic.

Our indigenous aborigines (harsh conditions in a lot of Australia) don't meet the 'arid' criteria above. And I can think of several tropical cultures where proscription was quite rigid. There's a fascinating book called Deadly Feasts about the discovery of the beginnings of Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease (variant-kuru, scrapie and mad cow and I can't recall the author) that details the Fore people and Papuan Highlands communities and their religions and habits.

I am sure you could find it at Amazon.

Cheers
V

696. Shout your doubt out loud, my fellow unbelievers

Comment #34675 by Veronique on April 24, 2007 at 9:40 pm

12. Comment #34626 by Yorker

I have now. Wow, I can't believe I didn't see your PM on 17th April.

Well, yes, Robyn himself calls it a primer. I think, like you, that it will be an excellent book to hand out to those like your sister and many that I know as well.

Are you going to write a review for Amazon? You said you might.

I like his style too, and he reminds me of me. So it's small wonder we both like his style!!:-)

I posted a comment to the Times and it hasn't shown up. Can someone tell me how long comments take to be posted on their threads? I am going to have to get into the habit of always copying my comments into a text document. I get so cross when I can't recall brilliant:-) things I have said and then the whole ruddy thing goes off into cyberspace!

Cheers
V

697. Brian Lehrer interviews Richard Dawkins

Comment #34656 by Veronique on April 24, 2007 at 7:59 pm

12. Comment #34445 by mjwemdee

I am a second child. I am certainly more rebellious than my older brother and my younger sister. My brother and I are atheists (so was our pater), my sister took up Vipassana Buddhism in her twenties. We are all now in our sixties.

There are studies to do with second and/or middle children and some evidence exists for more outspokenness and rebellion. The parents are not 'new' parents anymore and seem less anxious about 'doing the right thing' whatever that may mean to any particular set of parents. There appears to be more freedom allowed to second children that accounts for part of what Brian was talking about. And yes, both my sons are atheists as well.

You could google psychology reviews and search for the studies. I can't remember looking at them since I did psych myself, years ago.

Cheers
V

698. Vote for the Time 100 - Are They Worthy?

Comment #34649 by Veronique on April 24, 2007 at 7:00 pm

Yorker

Thanks for asking Blods what that is. I find I cannot bear looking at it and scroll through quickly.

Please Blods, if it were a caricature, it would be better, but it looks so deformed and unhappy with only two legs and a fore-shortened body.:-)

I have voted. I cannot believe the list. I thought it was about influential. Give me a break, some of those on the list are total tossers (another one of those words, Yorker:-)

Cheers
V

699. Shout your doubt out loud, my fellow unbelievers

Comment #34622 by Veronique on April 24, 2007 at 6:04 pm

Comment #34602 by MIND_REBEL

Like Russell, I don't buy the Noble Savage bit either. Here are a couple of quotes for you though:

Jomo Kenyatta (President of Kenya): When the missionaries arrived, the Africans had the Land and the missionaries had the Bible, They taught us how to pray with our eyes closed. When we opened them, they had the Land and we had the Bible.

Pontiac (Ottawa Indian): They came with a Bible and their religion, stole our land, crushed our spirit, and now tell us we should be thankful to the Lord for being saved.

Indigenous Africans and Americans were not peaceful nor harmonious. They had very well developed warrior classes and tribes fought each other for resources, women and territory.

For all that, nice to see you back here.

As for Parris' article, bravo! One more person with both the name and the message (plus a readership).

Cheers
V

700. Dinesh D'Souza says I don't exist: an atheist at Virginia Tech

Comment #33811 by Veronique on April 22, 2007 at 1:24 am

Having discovered that D'Souza used to go out with Ann Coulter, I hereby consign him to the dustbin.

Cheers
V